The Enquirer takes a step forward

by JD Arney on Jul 29, 2007 7:55 AM EDT in News

adam dunn

Congrats to Slyde (and JinAZ and Greg Gajus who I believe reads Red Reporter) for being featured in today's Enquirer, where Erardi solicited opinions on what the Reds should do before the deadline:

LF: Adam Dunn: The Reds seem hell-bent to trade this guy, regardless of return. If that's true, then it's disingenuous because it would mean the Reds care more about getting his $13 million contract off the books than getting better. Suggestion: Don't trade him unless you can get two major-league-ready prospects - one a center fielder with excellent OPS and defensive ability and the other a kid who is either a starter or a reliever with a strikeout-producing arm. Don't believe the Reds should keep Dunn? Check out the story on that topic on the next page (C9).

That story is here and is a great defense of Adam Dunn.

Kudos to John Erardi for doing a story like this. I would love it if these two articles get tons of play around Cincinnati, especially on talk radio.

The mainstream media gets bashed pretty constantly on all sorts of blogs, but you have to give the Enquirer credit for attempting to elevate the conversation surrounding the trade deadline. They picked some great fans to help them with that, and I really think the resulting articles were pretty well done. Kudos to everyone involved.

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Comments

I am bowled over

Sanity? In the Enquirer? A defense based on statistics? What's next, the Bengals deciding that drafting criminals might not be the best idea?

by biggsd on Jul 29, 2007 8:10 AM EDT reply actions

Congrats guys!

I read this article in the paper today, very nice job by the Enquirer.

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 9:06 AM EDT reply actions

Just read the series

of articles on-line. Good stuff and well written. I hope Sweaterpants is paying attention.

by pw on Jul 29, 2007 9:49 AM EDT reply actions

Eric Byrnes

Why would the Reds wanna trade for a guy who (I think) is a free agent at the end of the season and is a notorious first-half player?

by greg456 on Jul 29, 2007 9:54 AM EDT reply actions

Byrnes

I think the article says they would get him as a free agent. I'm not sure where they came up with the list of players to acquire, but they never asked me for specific names. Perhaps Justin or Greg recommended them.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions

weird

It's not there anymore. I'm sure it said "Acquire by Trade", but it's gone now. Someone must have realize the mistake.

As a free agent, he would certainly be an interesting acquisition, although he would be expensive probably, at least for the production he'll bring. Cincinnati would definitely love him, though.

by greg456 on Jul 29, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Byrnes

I actually recommended against him. I thought Rowand would be a better alternative, even though both of them are having career years.
-j

On Baseball and the Reds

by JinAZ on Jul 29, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Why can't the Reds get a package comparable

to what the Brewers got for Carlos Lee?

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2007 9:55 AM EDT reply actions

This was cool to be involved with

I gotta thank Justin because he floated my name to John for the article. Part of why I was missing for a week was because I spent a lot the time that I would have been on the site answering questions from John. He had an impressive set of questions that just kept getting bigger as the week went on. I told him that I felt like I was taking a masters exam on sabermetrics and the Reds.

Anyway, kudos to the Enquirer for trying to take a different perspective on the possible moves. It's hard for the mainstream media to write something like this because they have to find a way to be true to the principles of sabermetrics but not do it in a way that turns off the average fan. I think John managed to find a very nice balance and hopefully it will open up a few eyes to see that it's not as simple as just trading Dunn and getting rid of his strikeouts.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 10:35 AM EDT reply actions

THANK YOU

and thank you, John Erardi.

Finally, I have something to link to every time some moron makes a comment about how Dunn should be traded because he's a one-dimensional home run hitter and doesn't "hustle" enough.

Paul Daugherty made the comment "Home Runs are overrated." I'm still fired up about that.

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Paul Daugherty haha

I talked to him about why we shouldn't trade Dunn at the YMCA and he was like "well if we can't get any good players back atleast we dump salary to pick up another good player." Tori Hunter is the only decent OF going ot be on the market but we don't need an OF, we need pitching both relievers and starters! Stupid doc

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh

and be prepared to be denigrated as a "stat geek" who lives in his parents' basement.

For what it's worth...

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

The joke's on them

My parents don't even have a basement.

I told John the same thing. From one of my emais: "Based on my experience, at least one person will tell you to take your nose out of the spreadsheet, come out of your mother's basement and enjoy the sun for a while."

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions

John's a good guy.

Back when I was part of the mainstream media we ran across one another quite a bit. I had him sign one of his books on the Reds for me one year when UC played Marshall in the Motor City Bowl and we both were covering it.

Good guy, writer and reporter.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Jul 29, 2007 10:49 AM EDT reply actions

Agreed

I've always like Erardi and my interaction with him was nothing but enjoyable. He really seemed like a sponge trying to learn everything he can about sabermetrics in a week. I give him credit for not trying to shortcut his way into a "Moneyball says this" kind of article. He really was committed to doing it right, and I think he succeeded.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

email

send emails to jpichler at Enquirer.com (sports editor) if you like this kind of coverage.

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 11:08 AM EDT reply actions

Greg Gajus = GreginATL (If I'm not mistaken)

Haven't seen him around in a while, but perhaps he still lurks silently.

"Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? Eek eek."

by Ash on Jul 29, 2007 11:33 AM EDT reply actions

Are you related to him?

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

Yup, second cousins

"Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? Eek eek."

by Ash on Jul 29, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

(The Reds are apparently big in my family)

Although, IIRC, he works for the Braves now, so hmmm...

"Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? Eek eek."

by Ash on Jul 29, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

I thought you were going to the game?

You're going to miss batting practice!!!!

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

I was, but I feel lousy.

Too lousy to sit in the sun for three hours.

"Hello, my name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a banana? Eek eek."

by Ash on Jul 29, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Plus...

It looks like it's getting ready to rain here.

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2007 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

feel lousy?

so you really were drinking a lot last night!

Reds tailgate party at RFK August 2, 5-6:30pm

by Daedalus on Jul 29, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Is this another one of those days where

we don't get a game thread until someone posts a diary halfway through the first inning?

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 29, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions

This was a really good article

Congrats on the coverage. I just hope it opens up a few eyes in Cincy.

"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Jul 29, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

Nice set of articles

Though I did find the "Players to acquire" list to be a little ridiculous. Well, specifically, Justin Upton and Scot Shields being on the list.

by Geki on Jul 29, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions

Geki what do you think of Justin Upton?

I don't know anything about minor league players

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Best prospect in baseball

And, quite possibly, the best prospect since Alex Rodriguez all the way back in 1995.

by Geki on Jul 29, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

well then

Those are the types of players the Reds should be acquiring. Upton and AROD.

by greg456 on Jul 29, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Just talked to Paul Daugherty

I'm gonna be in studio for Sports Talk tomorrow. He's trying to get a hold of JinAZ and Greg, who obviously would have to call in. It should be interesting since Doc and I have very different views on the Reds, especially Adam Dunn.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions

wow, that's great

you should plead on the air for sukr to come back

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Jul 29, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Sweet deal.

Paul Daugherty is pretty much an asshole in every sense of the word. Make him look bad.

by Geki on Jul 29, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I repeat

"Home Runs are overrated"

- Paul Daugherty

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Where is he

on the whole touchdowns vs. safeties debate?

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Jul 29, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

If I had to guess

he'd say that even though safeties only account for 28.5% of the point total that touchdowns do, safeties are better because they are "momentum-shifters" or some other totally aribrary non-fact supported opinion.

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

of course they are

you get the points AND the ball. With touchdowns, you ONLY get the points. points + ball > points. It's elementary.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Glad we're all on the same page

but I'm a little more old school when it comes to football. I think if you pick up five yards on 1st down, the correct call on 2nd down is to take a knee. It's just how you've got to play the game.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Jul 29, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Diary material

I'm one of many that is out of WLW's reach... I'd love to read about the experience/conversation when you get a chance to write about it.

by bobestes on Jul 29, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

It's available online at 700wlw.com

We'll be on between 6:30 and 7pm. I will definitely file a report though, unless it turns out to suck.

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

nvm haha

sweet I listen to it on the way up to my guitar class

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

awesome what time?

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

You should be able to make him look dumb

do you have a voice made for radio?

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 29, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Third office on the left

If you come in the normal "talk show guests" entrance. I may just have to stay late to take a listen. But only if you say hi. :)

"The revolution will not be televised....at least out of market" -- Brendanukkah

by jch24 on Jul 29, 2007 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I was hoping you'd be around

I'll poke my head in if I have time before. If not, stop by the studio.

Does Sports Talk get food? Is it there by show's start? That is, do I need to eat dinner first?

chandrathan has come out of the darkness and has seen a great light!

by Slyde on Jul 29, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Dunno about the food

I usually leave at 6:00, so I'm not sure. There are a ton of food joints close, I'd probably grab something before you come, just to be sure.

"The revolution will not be televised....at least out of market" -- Brendanukkah

by jch24 on Jul 30, 2007 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Come prepared to eat Paul Daugherty alive

by Geki on Jul 30, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

The most important facet about Dunn

next to all of the excellent analysis that you all given is that he's still got some good upside offensively. Not to mention that he's my grandson's favorite player.

Tracy bought Marty a White Dwarf for his birthday. Could this could be construed as racist?

by Madville on Jul 29, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions

Finally....

...and in a paper like the Enquirer. If I had a time every time someone talked about why we should be trading Dunn (defense [as though this is the biggest asset for a left fielder], strikeouts, etc., etc.), and always the same nonsense about how we can get a top-tiered starter in return, in spite of the fact every trade rumor I see involves trading Adam for some junk relievers, it's enough to make me wonder if people in this town have any idea of what they're crying for. Thank you Mr. Erardi for stating the obvious.

by tonywf on Jul 30, 2007 12:54 AM EDT reply actions

Aaaahhh...

Much better. That was like a glass of iced tea on a hot afternoon after mowing the lawn.

Please don't trade Adam Dunn.

by Paul Householder on Jul 30, 2007 9:21 AM EDT reply actions

mmm Ice Tea...

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Jul 30, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Back in town

Hi everyone, back in town after attending SABR. Internet access was limited so I'm catching up.

I'm gratified with the response here to the article. I've worked on and off with John for around a decade (I did some minor sabermetric research for him and Greg Rhodes in Big Red Dynasty and Redleg Journal). Unlike Marty/Thom and the rest of the MSM, he has a very open mind and as Slyde noted was like a sponge trying to learn all the essentials in a short time. He has occasionally used me as a sounding board, and for this article I pointed him to Justin's site and the outstanding sabermetric series here. I'll fess up on Brynes, John specifically asked who to sign as a stopgap assuming Bruce isn't ready until '09 and I suggested Brynes (forgot about Rowand, who I would prefer also). Both seem to fit in the "might be a decent stopgap without paying for Andruw or Torii" which I can't see Krivsky doing anyway.

I'll be much more gratified if Krivsky pays attention and doesn't give Adam away without a decent return.

Guess we will know tomorrow.

Hi Ash, how are things?

Greg in Atl

by Greg in Atl on Jul 30, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions