Jerry Narron Fired
by JD Arney on Jul 1, 2007 10:04 PM EDT
in News
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PrintPete Mackanin is taking over; he was the advance scout previously.
I remember an "insider" over at RedsZone saying that the Reds were incredibly deficient in the area of advanced scouting, but I'm trying not to let that color my opinion since I'm guessing this is an interim position anyway.
It'll be interesting to see what Krivsky has to say about this tomorrow.
Go ahead and use this as an open thread for Monday's press conference and any other forthcoming news.
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My prediction:
Pete Mackanin is given a contract extension.
Pete Mackanin is a horrible manager and is fired midway through the 2009 season.
Rinse and repeat.
I think he is an interim
Since I started paying attention in 1995 this is the Reds 7th manager, and 9th since 1990.
by justin0070000 on Jul 1, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerry Narron was an interim
See Carl Lidner
by justin0070000 on Jul 1, 2007 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling this might sneak into
The press conference is at Noon. Damn, I might have to take a long lunch.
I have already dubbed him
Actually it doesn't
by cesarhernandez on Jul 1, 2007 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN is reporting it
this guy has to be interim only
It was 2005
and here we are...
I met Pete
by Thundering Turtle on Jul 1, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
So do you think
I think
by Thundering Turtle on Jul 2, 2007 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
meet the new boss...same as old boss...
The key
if the search stops here
baseball does that, right?
Yes
a minority manager for the Reds
worst/best cases
Booby Valentine?
but bobby can manage a baseball team...
Things can always get worse
This might sound simplistic and, well, dumb
maybe ask
Griffey
There was that bit..
So maybe Mackanin would get a fresh slate there, if the issue perceived unfairness.
Dunno about respect, though. I would think it's going to be pretty hard for a guy who was the advance scout at the start of the season, and might be again next season, to lay down the law if Narron couldn't.
Congrats Tonywf..
2005
It's feels comfortable
Is that...
If I recall correctly
So, I went and edited the RR Wiki
You konw what would be great
not soon enough...
by nlt-andrew68 on Jul 1, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree
by HokieRed on Jul 1, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda miss Jerry.
Castenelli's Dream...
Good luck PETE JR.
I hope someone has the balls to....
Wayne is to blame !!
the "real" reporters won't ask
But they can afford a real closer anyway
coffey extension really isn't a problem
by justin0070000 on Jul 1, 2007 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Just asked about Mackanin
This is the response from Charlie at Bucs Dugout
Mackanin's most important job with the Reds will be helping develop young guys like Homer Bailey, Hamilton and Encarnacion. I'm not sure whether he's any good in that area or not. The couple of times I can remember where actual advice he gave players made it into the paper, it was always like, "You need to relax and stop thinking so hard." It didn't seem like high-level thought. That obviously doesn't make him worse than most other managers, though.
So it sounds like a lot of the same that we've been used to. No word yet on his level of baseball guyness or if he's familiar with the right way to play the game.
This is such a pointless move
Just a few
good golly
On the other hand, the Reds offense is comparable with the Angels, as both are 4th in runs scored in their league. The Mets are 9th.
But, on a more philophical level, as far as advancing runners and not wasting outs goes, the game just ain't that easy. Most of the guys with good bat control can't hit worth a damn, and the guys who can hit well have no idea where the ball is going to go.
This team has the 2nd worst ERA in the NL. That is why its a bad team. It has next to nothing to do with "fundamentals", IMO.
I agree and disagree
The Arguement about why I think the Reds Offense is not as efficent because they lack fundamentals will sound dumb but stay with me. Every player on this team including ones not named Dunn strike out with RISP and Sac Flys and Moving Runners to bases all that stuff Narron preeched never happened.
The 2002 Angels in my opion is one of the most effiecent offensive units, They had guys who made contact Eckstien, Erstand, Guys who Hit HRs Glaus and Salmon and they finished last in the MLB with striking out. I know People are going to say oh THom and Marty are brian washing you but they are right on this not that Dunn is the reason the team is losing but on this. So that is why this offense bugs me but hey if a team is going to suck why not entertain us with HRs
The offense bugs you?
You don't read all of my post do you?
I see that you said at the top that
And you mentioned the 2002 Angels and how they won the World Series, apparently because they were offensively efficient and struck out less than anyone else in baseball.
And yes, Marty is brainwashing you against Dunn.
where did you get an Anti Dunn Post
Not sure . . .
I don't know exactly what you are trying to say there, but it sounded anti-Dunn to me.
You Caught me
Geez how could i give myself away on that
at this point, I have no idea what is going on
And I just went from there because it seems that Marty is most negative about Dunn.
If you're for Dunn, then you're for Dunn. I think that's great. I wouldn't say that Krivsky clearly doesn't want to build around him.
True about the Sweaterpants buidling thing
What hurts?
My bad I am VERY Tired
Brantley
But of course it's all Dunn's fault.
a protection aside
I kindly advise you to look closer into the claims about protection. If you like I can point you to some articles. To really investigate the claim of protection you have to do more than point at a player in a certain situation and say he would have more RBI were he protected. A proper study controls for as many variables as possible--say comparing Player A's stats when Player B batted behind him with Player A's stats when Player C batted behind him. Many smart people have done a lot of studies like this (but way more complicated) and found that yes, protection is pretty much a myth, at least a lot more than we used to think.
Castellini
Personally, I think TLR is a clown. Jocketty... I don't know.
Could have had Girardi ??
Another reason to fire Krivsky now. Here's a more than capable manager prospect that everyone seemed to want. You could have cleaned out the whole coaching staff if you ask me.
Who's the source
I got it from Yahoo,
by nlt-andrew68 on Jul 1, 2007 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I buy it
Yahoo's report on narron's firing....
by nlt-andrew68 on Jul 1, 2007 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Girardi might have interviewed
Strange
It sounds strange to me
FWIW, Girardi was supposed to do the Baltimore-NY series last week. YES rearranged the schedule to give him those days off. Supposedly because it would be too awkward to have him broadcast the Baltimore games when he's just turned down a job managing them.
But maybe he was actually interviewing with Cincinnati on those days?
I think the White Sox
So why interview
by ken on Jul 2, 2007 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Like someone over at Trent's blog said
FWIW, though, all parties are denying any talks, let alone interviews, occurred.
So let me get this straight
That makes sense.
nothing sweaterpants does makes sense.....
by nlt-andrew68 on Jul 1, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Pfft cleary you dont
LOL
Hey, maybe the coaching staff they wanted him to keep were the brothers Narron. To babysit Josh Hamilton, y'know.
You gotta admit, that would be awkward, trying to manage the team with the previous manager (and his brother!) still around...
Josh Hamilton is 25 years old. (26?)
I was kidding
and maybe not
The Johnny Narron tirade wasn't supposed to be directed at you - sorry about that - I just get sick of people assuming Hamilton will fall apart if Johnny goes. Not that you said that, it's just written between the lines all the time.
It's just the way things are done
I'm guessing there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't touch the Yankees managerial job with a ten foot pole, for various reasons.
Very true, but I don't think Girardi is one of them.
If it's true that Girardi interviewed, and he was doing it to be polite, then why do it twice? Hell, why interview at all? Just say no when Kriv calls.
He had no intention of taking the Orioles job, either, but he did interview with them. It's just the way things are done. You go on the interview, pretend that you're considering it, and regretfully decline. Even if you'd rather have a root canal with no anaesthesia than accept the job.
The Johnny Narron tirade wasn't supposed to be directed at you - sorry about that - I just get sick of people assuming Hamilton will fall apart if Johnny goes. Not that you said that, it's just written between the lines all the time.
I don't think anyone except Hamilton can keep Hamilton from falling apart. But what the Reds think is another matter. They did send Johnny Narron with him on the minor league assignment, which is sort of unusual.
I don't think Hamilton is out of the woods yet. He doesn't trust himself to drive or carry enough money for lunch. But he's the only one who can keep himself on track. His parents, grandmother, wife and kids couldn't keep him sober before. If they couldn't do it, Johnny Narron won't be able to, either. It's up to Josh.
If that's the way that things are done
As for Hamilton, I agree. It's up to Josh. And I hope he can do it.
Firing
This team has a lot of flaws and some are directly attributale to Jerry Narron and his coaching staff. I never liked the way Jerry mananged, heck I prefered Miley and the way he managed a game over Jerry Narron. If Castellini is serious about putting a winning team on the field he needs to put the right people in place and let them do their work. That probably means Wayne has the rest of the season and off season to do that. BTW is Jerry taking Juan Castro with him? Actually I only blame Jerry for playing Castro, I know sweaterpants signed him.
Some necessary and intelligent decisions:
2.Pete Mackanin has had a long and strong baseball management/coaching career. Although I would have loved to have see Billy Hatcher given a shot, Pete ultimately makes more sense. Mackanin has a rep for being tough and competent. He's been in this role before AND he's an outsider. Not a Red's outsider but a dugout/coach's coffee club outsider. With any luck he'll help right the ship a bit, help Krisksy get axed, and then gracefully step aside for a more dynamic and experienced Major league manager.
One down and One to go. Sad it is, I feel badly for Narron. However, Krivsky is the bigger problem , I can only hope that he is gone before he screws up the core of the team with more unproductive trades.
La Russa?
Hal McCoy said that the other day....
by nlt-andrew68 on Jul 1, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
forget La Russa
If we get La Russa
Of course, Duncan may not follow La Russa this time like he has in the past because his son is now on the Cardinals.
And as much as I hate La Russa and would not be at all sad if he got hit by a truck, he does manage to win games pretty much regardless of the talent he has. That would be a nice thing to have.
Lets not give anyone any idea
Let him go genius up
Although I suppose his coming to town might help the local police departments make their revenue goals more easily.
by Officer Dibble on Jul 2, 2007 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't want TLR either
Not Krivsky related
anyway, neither team scored until the mudcats scored one on a single. in the bottom half, there were 2 outs with Caonabo Cosme (who is badass right now, by the way) on second in a 2-0 count when it rained out. Theyre going to resume, same count and everything, tomorrow an hour before their scheduled game. That would be cool to see I think. It gives you a lot more reason to come out and see the game(s).
Caonabo Cosme
I was kind of surprised they put Cosme at Chattanooga instead of Louisville. He played most of the last three seasons at Triple-A Columbus.
yeah
if you think lucky he will still be 19
by justin0070000 on Jul 2, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad we can't get Girardi
Too badwe can't get Buddy Bell
That must be
It couldn't go any worse than Gerry Faust jumping to Notre Dame with only high school coaching experience.
Please...
by sotofan on Jul 2, 2007 9:21 AM EDT reply actions
MacKanin quote from that guy article
"...we talk about and do the things that we're supposed to do - hitting cutoff men, getting bunts down, making routine plays on different type of bunt situations and not making mental mistakes."
BUNT! bunting will save the season. I see very little reason to believe that this guy won't be Narron 2.0
Little things
when coming down
scratch away
it's the little things that kill
tearing at my brains again
the little things that kill
You know, it has suddenly occurred to me what the major problem with this organization is. For 5 years now, they have been stuck on trying to fix the little things. We constantly hear about how they need to play better fundamentals, move runners over, hit the cut-off man, etc. But all the while, the team suffers at one of the big things, pitching.
So far this year, here is a breakdown of the Reds record in runs scored and runs allowed situations:
Reds NL Avg
W L PCT W L PCT
RS < 4 10 34 .227 12 33 .267
RS > 4 21 17 .553 28 8 .778
RA < 4 22 7 .759 27 7 .794
RA > 4 8 38 .174 8 30 .211
The Reds are pretty close to average in number of times scoring above and below 4 runs, doing slightly better at both, but not a significant amount. However, they are 8 games over the league average on giving up 5 or more runs. They've surrendered that many runs more than every team besides the Marlins in the NL. Even worse is the fact that they've given up 9 or more runs 16 times this year. That's at least 3 more times than any other team in the NL. Suffice to say, teams don't win too many of those games either (the Reds are 0-16).
So, rather than focusing all of our time on improving bunting so that we can score one more run here or there, why don't they spend more time on improving the pitching first, that way when the offense scores 5 runs or more, the Reds might actually be able to win a few of those games first. Once they get back to winning games they should have won, then they can focus on winning games they could have won.
to be fair
I guess you could rephrase the latter- but I think my point is that he isn't here to stir shit up. At the same time, bunting sucks.
Joe Girardi
A source told PA SportsTicker that Joe Girardi, the 2006 National League Manager of the Year with the Florida Marlins, twice interviewed for the Reds job this past week but turned the position down because he would have had to retain some of the current coaching staff.
On pace for a 100-loss season and our coaching staff is suddenly untouchable!?
by sotofan on Jul 2, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions
Krivsky's is crying
Wayne won't really answer questions. Hearing the press conference I have a more and more of a feeling that he will stay.
Why does this press conference sound like a Bush or Rumsfield press conference about the Iraq war?
Because in many ways, especially accountability
BP's upset
The players were not notified of the decision to fire Narron. Second baseman Brandon Phillips was upset today.
"Jerry did the best he could do. We had a lot of veterans. If he had different guys in there, we'd have different results,'' he said. "We didn't make any trades. We didn't fire anybody but get him fired. It sucks.''
Phillips said the team did well with Narron last year.
"But we had new guys come to the scene this year. He tried to adjust with the new guys this year, but it's all about certain players. Ken Griffey and his home run chase, Josh Hamilton and his comeback season, everybody got caught up in that instead of winning.
"We're happy for Josh, but we want to win. And the next thing you know, Homer Bailey's up here. We're a team, and everybody's worried about three guys."
Guess the players don't like all the hype. Not a good sign when they think the wrong stuff is being emphasized.
by pw on Jul 2, 2007 2:04 PM EDT reply actions
but
or maybe he's jealous of the attention.
Veterans
by pw on Jul 2, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck
Wow
These quotes make me wonder though if there is a lot of unhappiness in the clubhouse that isn't getting out into the public.
Rudderless team = unhappy & frustrated team
Yep, its a foregone conclusion. These guys want to win, they want to do well, everybody wants to play, guys like BP tend to think out loud sometimes, etc etc etc - no wonder Narron's gone. Control of the team was lost a long time ago.
When you are 30 and 51...
And he should go back and listen to FSN's coverage with "The Cowboy" from Sunday and enjoy all the man love given to him. I swear it was going on for two innings at least. (Not that he doesn't deserve some of it - and yes - that snag up the middle, pirouette throw to first was gem worthy.)
BP - RR loves you. Hope that makes you feel better.
For those worried about Hamilton
I would now
I wonder what 'tHan's take on this is....
I called to him earlier today
So, yeah, he's still alive. For now.
by Ash on Jul 2, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nar roon faired.
Here are some "potential managers" for the Reds:
1)Dusty Baker! He likes vets, he's available.
2)Buck Showalter- humorless butt kicker, just like Jerry, a former Ranger guy!
3)Tony Perez.....what? oh, nevermind.
4)Jose Rijo
5)Chris Sabo the Reds Joe Girardi doppleganger
6)Joe Torre-he will be looking for work next year and his missus is from these parts.
by dion on Jul 2, 2007 4:44 PM EDT reply actions
This has nothing to do with anything, but
fairwell Jerry
Wayner's "honey do" list:
- fire jerry (check)
- sign dunner long-term
- trade the "veteran presence"
- fajitas for lunch (fajitas!)
- put on some fleetwood mac (dont stop thinkin' about tomorrow)
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 2, 2007 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
More Hamilton quotes... on BP's statements
Per the ___ Blog
I hate seeing the two cornerstones of our franchise having it out via the press this way. You'd like to think those two will lead this team back to respectability some day soon.
Those quotes
I can't help remembering that BP was considered a clubhouse cancer at his former team. Is he reverting?
And jeez, Hamilton's a rookie who wouldn't even be on the team if he wasn't Rule 5. And he's taking public potshots at a teammate? Even if said teammate is a clubhouse cancer, it seems out of line.
This doesn't bode well.
meh
It sounds like it's more than those two
Is it true that Trent is very anti-BP?
by Ash on Jul 2, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm... I see now that Trent says he isn't
by Ash on Jul 2, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Not cool dude
Because you don't agree with them
You make claims that have no basis in fact.
As for Phillips, he's just living proof that clutch players don't exist. He was a way better hitter with men on last year, while this year he's much better with the bases empty. It's not something that he really has much control over improving, especially when you look at the tiny sample size from this year anyways.
But in the end, my issue with you runs far deeper than these two "problems". I find essentially everything you post to be mind-numbingly idiotic. You show little to no sign of coherent thought, and you run behind a wall of "well it's just my opinion" whenever you get backlash for saying something stupid, when it's usually not an opinion at all -- simply an ignorance of statistics. Your "opinions", much like these statistics, seem to change on a day to day basis, but change or not you still fail at backing anything you say up. All I ask of you is a little bit of intelligent thought, because all you're doing know is cluttering up the place with the mindless idiocy possessed by your typical uneducated baseball fan. If I wanted to hear the idiotic drivel of those morons, I wouldn't bother coming here. But since I don't want to hear that, I ask that my little island of intelligent baseball paradise not be infested with fucktards. You're not obliging that request, so you're getting called on it.
Don't take it to heart, Zach
I haven't given up on you and hope that you'll find your way over to our side of the fence. This sounds really pompous, but there it is. It is more fun and happy over here than Geki makes it seem. Go Reds.
Holy crap!
Umm.... go Reds??
FYI
If Narron were ever to manage against Junior, he might bring you in, based on the Castro Theory of Substitution.
by Paul Householder on Jul 3, 2007 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Now, I'm not saying...
I don't know that he's anti-BP
Did you see that post where he said when BP made the last out at 2B, no one would bring him his hat and glove? He had to walk back to the dugout and get them himself.
I wonder if that is because he
Yeah
OTOH, Trent says he won't talk to the press when he's not doing well, but is all smiles when he is, even if the team lost.
That's not true.
But seriously, it's not really surprising that Trent would reach that conclusion -- Brandon dubbed himself "The Franchise" while he was in Cleveland, and while one would hope he's humbled a bit, it certainly wouldn't be a surprise if some of his egotism remained.
thats fine too
not sure about that
i would say phillips has the right attitude for a leader
Fay keeps throwing out Ozzie Guillen's name
Zach ... Geki ... C'mon fellas....
Maybe one big happy fisting?
Can we at least all gather round and raise a glass in the name of Pete "Brother Rice" Mackinin?
Gentlemen, some salty discourse is fine every once in awhile but remember...
HA! Ha ha ha ha. ha.
thanks cool god
Er...
That would be a miracle.
honestly, I find this post offensive
by ewquinn on Jul 3, 2007 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You're probably right...
I'm sure that there may be a couplafew Red Reporters who might be down with some Sarah Silverman and they might have chuckled (and/or twitched) with mild pleasure at that post, but ultimately I guess it's a lot like communal nut butter... it's just not gonna be everybody's thing. While some free spirits might enjoy it for what it is, many others will raise an eyebrow or even grimace at the thought.
HA! Ha ha ha ha. ha
Forgive me, Quinn.
Forgive me?
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 3, 2007 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
And I promise...
HA! Ha ha ha ha. ha.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 3, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Communal nut butter
(No disparagement meant towards your profession, Quinn. I merely have the sensibilities of a 13 year old.)
by Brendanukkah on Jul 3, 2007 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Redsfan..
I do have her sisters and brother here (16,15, and 9) so my blogging will be sporadic this week.
I did have a near death experience today on a slip and slide though...
Why are things named Slide (Slyde) always so mean to me?
I was in Richmond picking up the kids today, when I got the call from Ash. I'm very glad she called, otherwise I wouldn't have realized what a great guy and manager Narron is. He'll manage again in the big leagues you know.
As for my take on the firing, I dunno. It's long long long overdue, but it doesn't really help the rest of the season. Is this new guy the right guy to help out Bailey and Votto in their first year in the big leagues? I'm pretty sure that he is in fact just an interim manager, and we'll get someone new next year.
I heard John Fay say on the radio today that Castellini wants to make a big splash, and our next manager will be either Joe Girardi, Tony LaRussa, or Joe Torre.
I don't know exactly what to think of that, but what I do know is that since Jerry got fired, it's time for Ash to get her Reds tattoo!
by chandrathan on Jul 2, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
Probably just rest
In other minor league news, Louisville won 1-0 powered by 7 good innings by Bobby Livingston. The Bats have allowed just two runs in their past four games.
In Chattanooga, Carlos Fisher got knocked around again, for the third time in four starts. His hit rate has shot up and his strikeout rate has really dropped lately. Hopefully it's just an anomaly, but I get the feeling his first two months were more than likely the fluke. Jay Bruce also hit his fourth AA homer today.
Travis Wood struck out 9 but gave up four runs in 5.1 IP. He's been a big disappointment this year, first getting hurt and then sucking when he came back.
Also interesting from Sarasota's game is that Aaron Harang's little brother Daryl, who is 24, picked up the save and has a 2.48 ERA and sub-1.00 WHIP in 26 innings for Dunedin. Of course, he's repeating the level and really isn't much of a prospect, but seeing that name always catches me off guard.
In Dayton, the top four hitters in the lineup combined to get on base 15 times, including 3 hits and a walk by Drew Stubbs (luckily he made up for that by getting caught stealing once and getting picked off once) and four hits by Juan Francisco, as well as a homer by Chris Valaika.
And finally, in rookie ball, Neftali Soto continued his molestation of GCL pitching, going 3-5 with a triple. He's hitting .476 with 7 extra base hits in ten games so far.
hey Geki
we didn't expect this out of aaron
by justin0070000 on Jul 3, 2007 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Harang
Why are we discussing
by neckbeard on Jul 3, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Cueto
by pw on Jul 3, 2007 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
So Anyone think anything Drastic will happen
I have been wondering about putting Phillips in the cleanup spot for a while, and moving Edwin up to the 2-Hole. BP has more power, and Edwin has a better OBP (.351, to Brandon's .318). While its not a huge difference, it seems like Edwin finds more ways to get on base.
Speaking of OBP, anyone else notic that Jr.'s is as high as it has ever been since he has been in a Reds uni?
I don't know
On May 20th, his line was looking real good: .292/.337/.506
Since then, not so much: .240/.296/.425
He still has some pop, but that .296 OBP is not acceptable at the top of the lineup. I'd consider moving him to 5th or 6th.
As a note, EdE over that same time has put up: .312/.387/.457
After putting up that atrocious month of April, EdE is putting together a fine little season. I actually still prefer him in middle of the order because I think he's the best right-handed hitter on the team, April notwithstanding.
What about
my line up - everyday
BP 2b
Mr Griffey RF
EdE 3b
Hamilton CF
Dunn LF
Gonzalez SS
Ross C
why are you batting Dunn so low?
damned high math
I like Griff 3 and EdE 4 to protect him
Dunn 6th sets up stuff like sacs and hit and runs :) just kidding
maybe when Votto takes hatties spot I'd put Dunner 2 and Joey 6
Can't a guy...
Geez!
probably not...
No, I don't think so
Well.... if its in the by-laws
Shoot... did I set my brain down somewhere? I keep doing that.
The Toy MacKanin
by neckbeard on Jul 3, 2007 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
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