Coffey and Hamilton Up, Salmon and Wise Down

by JD Arney on Jun 4, 2007 3:19 PM EDT in News Comment 28 comments

Josh Hamilton

Every time a bullpen move is made you have to ask why not Stanton? It's pretty obvious the Reds aren't serious about putting the best possible team out there, which I guess I understand since the season is already basically over, but damn it's frustrating watching Stanton pitch nearly every day.

Anyway, the Reds today recalled Josh Hamilton and Todd Coffey and sent down Dewayne Wise and Brad Salmon.

I kind of hate seeing Salmon jerked around so much since he's already 27 years old, but I guess that's what happens when a guy has options. The Reds seem really reactive lately after someone has a bad outing as well, and Salmon didn't get anyone out last Friday night.

Coffey pitched 5.2 scoreless innings at Louisville with nine strikeouts and one walk. It's hard to figure out how he can be so dominating at that level and struggle so badly with the Reds. There are times when I wonder if the Reds advance scouts aren't killing the team, because it sometimes seems like Coffey (among others) has no clue what to throw to certain hitters.

Hamilton was OPS'ing 1.282, so I suppose it was time for him to come up. In all seriousness, Hamilton's time at AAA gives me a lot of hope for his future. It kind of solidifies the fact that he's got nothing left to prove in the minor leagues. As long as he stays clean I think the Reds have the next Junior/A-Rod/Pujols type of player on their hands.

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Just so nobody blames me

In yesterday's game thread I said Coffey would be called up as a joke. It was a joke. Obivously Wayne and Jerry thought it was a good idea. I'm sorry to everyone.

Please contribute to the Hats for Bats fund.

by Pilsner73 on Jun 4, 2007 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm more optimistic about Coffey

than most, I think. I think he's got good enough stuff to be a decent reliever, but I think he makes dumb mistakes. I hate to be Captain Obvious, but if he can just overcome the mistakes I think he'll be good.

And I'm guessing the reason that Stanton wasn't dropped yet is because that would leave Coutlangus as the only lefty and he hasn't been that effective the last 2 weeks either.

2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on Jun 4, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

btw

i dont know how many of us buy into stanton not being dfa'd because hes a lefty, but has anyone seen his season splits? Vs. lefties he's allowed a .378/.439/.514. So, it's pretty ridiculous to justify keeping him in the pen with he fact that he throws with his left hand. a situational matchup isnt so nice when your loogy cant saw off a lefty

by boobs on Jun 4, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using stats to justify anything from Kriv or Jerry

is assuming too much. He's a lefty and you can't have fewer than 2 lefties in the pen. That's all the logic you need.

2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on Jun 4, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

that jerry and pants buy into it, i just hope no one here is.

by boobs on Jun 4, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You really can't

use stats to compare anything with anything, boobs. Do we need to send you back to Dusty Baker's Great Baseball Guy Camp?

Fuit quod es, eris quod sum

by Man Mountain on Jun 4, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Joe Morgan might.

Which makes me think that Man Mountain is Joe.

"That which is repeated will happen a third time."

by Paul Householder on Jun 4, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stanton's contract

is probably the biggest reason he hasn't been released. Maybe not if he'd been given only a one-year deal, but I can't see Krivsky cutting a guy a few months after signing him when he's still owed about $4.5 mm for this and next year. It'd be too much of an admission of a mistake.

by ken on Jun 4, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

I mean, this obviously the reason. Any other justification is simply CYA platitudes disguised as "sound baseball sense." The kind that CTR was trying to teach young boobs last week.

Fuit quod es, eris quod sum

by Man Mountain on Jun 4, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

and I actually don't think that step one will be to DFA him. I bet he gets put on the DL for old age first.

And this isn't a clear case of sunk costs like Milton because like you said, it's only a couple of months and given that he's a reliever there's always the chance that he can pitch adequately enough next season.

I didn't like the 2nd year right out of the gate, but I never could have imagined that things would have gone this bad this quickly.

2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on Jun 4, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next Year

He'll throw well next year, just so some brainddeads out there have ammo to ask "Hey, shouldn't we give Stanton another contract?"

by bobestes on Jun 4, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

If he does, we'll be sure to pick up his option for 2009 (when he'll be 42). This is his contract:
07:$2M, 08:$3M, 09:$2.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)

by ken on Jun 4, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoah

he's making 3 mill next year? Crap. Can we chisel something in stone and put it high up somewhere as a reminder not to give multi-year deals to old players?

2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on Jun 4, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

stanton 09 option

2009 option guaranteed at $2.75M with 140 appearances 2007-08

Just checked out that contract website. It is financial insanity to keep throwing Stanton out every other day. If my math is correct, he is on pace for 150 appearances by the end of 2008.

The contract is a gift that keeps on giving...

by nulspace on Jun 5, 2007 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe our best bet is someone

Chops the dude's fingers off so he cant pitch.

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Jun 5, 2007 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or possibly turn him into HOF material

like Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 5, 2007 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or possibly turn him into HOF material

like Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 5, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Consarn it

by Brendanukkah on Jun 5, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The lovely Robert Horry "DNP: Age"

Fuit quod es, eris quod sum

by Man Mountain on Jun 4, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bad idea for another reason

Nobody's gonna want him at the trade deadline even if he straightens out on the mound in the meantime.

by pw on Jun 4, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coffey

"It's hard to figure out how he can be so dominating at that level and struggle so badly with the Reds."

I completely disagree in this instance and in just about every instance of someone looking at AAA stats as if they actually mattered. To me, AAA stats are like spring training stats: almost always meaningless, except intra-organizationally.

"Players have two things to do. Play and keep their mouths shut." -Sparky Anderson

by boohiss on Jun 4, 2007 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

meaningless?

i dont think you mean that, at least not so absolutely. If a batter hits .400 in the minors with 50 home runs, he would likely do ok in the bigs.

obviously, AAA stats are not nearly the same thing as mlb stats. but there has to at least a little correlation between playing in the minors and playing in the bigs, and i think thats what JD was saying: there has to be something to glean from minor league performances. which things carry over (even if only somewhat), and which dont?

by boobs on Jun 4, 2007 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good stats in AAA

Don't always = success in the show.

However if you suck in AAA, you will definately suck in the big leagues.

Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on Jun 4, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minor stats

To my rather ignorant brain, minor league stats are a way for comparing how players are doing against their peer group. Jay Bruce, for example, is probably at the same level as most 20 year olds...and he is rocking the shit out of them. His stats don't "mean anything" in terms of predicting how he'd do in the majors right now, but they do mean that he's one of the best 20 year old baseball players on the planet. Same thing with Homer. He's pitching to guys a lot older than he (granted, many of them are has-beens/never-weres) and is having success. The stats show you how the players compare to their scouting reports. In the cases of Bruce and Bailey, the stats affirm that for their ages, these two are premium goodz.

by teb7 on Jun 5, 2007 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton

i dont know if im completely sold on hamilton yet. maybe its because ive been watching this team too long and so always expect the worst, but this kid hit well in his first month in the majors and then cooled off. he did the same his first two week in AAA, but didnt have time to cool off. i think major league pitching has had time to see him and take advantage of his weaknesses, where AAA didnt have time to do that. so anyway, i guess im what im saying is we just have to wait to see if he can adjust to the adjustments made my major league pitching.

Barry Larkin is better than 10 super bowls put together

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 5, 2007 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hammy

I agree, I highly doubt we "have the next Junior/A-Rod/Pujols type of player"...

I think he compares more to Eric Davis or maybe Garret Anderson at best, which would still be sweet! But the chances of him getting there are still pretty low IMO. You are talking about a guy who has a .261 average and a .336 OBP. I'm not so impressed. I know he is young, but he isnt even close to as young as Griff/Arod/Pujols when they started.

Who knows, maybe he is more of a Sam Horn or Troy Neel? Maybe its because ive been listening to a lot of Public Enemy this week, but I seriously Dont Believe the Hype. That being said, J-Ham may be my favorite player on the 2007 reds (reserving room for Homer to take over if necessary).

by TheDude on Jun 5, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MLEs

I think I remember reading that well done MLE (Major League Equivalency) numbers are nearly as good at predicting future MLB performance as real MLB numbers. I wonder what Homer's MLE's are?

You can tell a lot about a player, if they walk too many hitters, if they swing at too many pitches, if they have gap power. Obviously good AAA stats in 06 dont mean a certain good year in MLB in 07. However, good MLB stats one year dont garuntee similar performance the next year. They are both imperfect, but useful. Why not use the info available. If you honestly dont like AAA stats, then use MLE's. If you dont buy into MLE's , then you probably shouldn't look at past MLB numbers either as they are only marginally better at prediction. Just go with your gut or whatever you are using to make judgments.

by TheDude on Jun 5, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs