Check it out. There's an elephant in the room.
So ummm... it seems that there is this fantastic baseball player out in California who should soon reach and surpass perhaps the single greatest milestone in the history of organized sports.
For those among us who may be in some stage of denial and/or ignorance, the current tally is: Hank Aaron 755 ... Barry Bonds 745
Thoughts, anyone?
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Bonds is a disgusting human being
Just one fan's opinion.
Bonds
Bonds is a tremendous player and has been for quite awhile.
Bonds is the greatest left fielder in the history of baseball.
Bonds will be in Cooperstown one day.
And Bonds will go down in history as one of the two least respected players in baseball history.
He has no one to blame but himself.
in 60 years
I think you may be on to something.
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with boobs
Here's something about steroids that most people seemingly don't think about. You have to workout a ridiculous amount for them to work. In fact, what steroids do is enable you to work out a ridiculous amount. They're not magic pills that automatically inflate you like a balloon. The reason why steroids suck is because of their shitty side effects, and it's unfair to expect everyone to risk their future health.
Steroids aren't illegal because they make your muscles bigger; they are illegal because of the SIDE EFFECTS. Chemists are at work around the clock the develop steroids and other drugs that enhance performance without the side effects. Like boobs said, a few decades around the road, those drugs will be standard issue for people getting paid tens of millions of dollars to hit things very far and throw them very fast. Technology is advancing, and yes, it's taking our quaint notions of the American pastime with it.
You think Ty Cobb, bastard that he is, wouldn't have shot himself full of steroids? Please. How much better would Ted Williams have been if he'd had Tony Gwynn's access to video technology. Or what about these days, when players can carry around external hard drives and study pitchers around the clock? Doesn't that give them an unfair advantage?
And what about amphetamines, the other elephant that is apparently invisible? Amphetamines improve concentration and focus, and certainly enhance performance in a coordinated sport like baseball. Should we subtract some of Pete Rose's hits because of that? Amphetamines have been in baseball forever, but no one seems to make a peep about them. They're just as illegal as steroids.
Look at the litany of players who have been suspended for steroid use recently. With the exception of Palmeiro, they all sucked. Steroids made these replacement players slightly better than replacement-level. Sure, they helped Bonds, but they didn't help him that much. And a good deal of the players were pitchers! I hate to use the term Steroids Era, but Bonds has stood out from his peers, many of whom were using the same performance enhancers as he.
Finally, I'm glad we're having this debate. Dialogue and debate are what matters when it comes to baseball history, because the debate keeps the past alive. Don't think Bonds deserves to be called the home run king? Fine--tell your kids that Hank Aaron is the true home run king, and explain to them why. Just be warned that by that time, baseball players won't be any less muscle bound, and one of them might be pushing 900.
Teb, give yourself some credit!
When you said "agree with boobs" and then "random thoughts about.. drugs" I thought we were going back to Hancock's grams to pounds conversion.

by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
All around the world today...
Whoever got the kilos got the candy, man!
A kilo is 1000 grams, easy to remember
You never catch the kid goin' hand to hand!
Ghostface rules.
A couple of points
Which is why steroids are illegal, of course. But I support whatever MLB can do to stamp them out. Sending a message that steroids are not tolerated (and thereby eliminating the incentive to use them) should help curtail the use of steriods.
But to me this is a moot issue. MLB banned steroids and now tests for them. Whatever happened prior to the implementation of the ban is nothing but speculation and wasn't against the rules anyways. Which is too bad, but the fault lies with MLB and the teams.
in 60 years
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named "Bubba"?
what pisses me off
I dunno man.
For better of for worse many premier atheltes are raging egomaniacs. (We're kinda guilty of making em like that.) So imagine for a moment or two that you were Barry Bonds at the end of the last century and you saw this bullshit on your buddy's coffee table:

(And if you were Barry Bonds you would have been "in the know" and you would have known that this was in fact "bullshit.")
Again, you're Barry Bonds and you know that you are twice the pure hitter that either one of those juiceboxes are. You're Barry Bonds. Are you sure that you know what you would and what you would not do?
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
If you saw THIS on your buddy's coffee table...
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
HUGE Asterick
in a clutch situation,
in a clutch situation
Don't blame Bonds...
Bonds did nothing against the rules of Major League Baseball. It's their faults for not testing for steroids, not the athletes fault for taking them.
by chandrathan on May 10, 2007 9:06 AM EDT reply actions
I agree
I don't like Bonds. I was hoping he wouldn't break the record. In fact, I was pretty sure that he'd be useless this year. So I'm astonished at the pace that he's been hitting dingers this year. Assuming he is being stringently tested, that means he's doing this legitimately, well north of 40. I mean, that's just amazing.
I wasn't alive to know Aaron as a ballplayer, but everyone always talks about how classy a guy he was. I've got to believe that the racism he faced while chasing down a legend like Babe Ruth far overshadows anything that Bonds is facing. His troubles all seem to be brought upon himself. Aaron proved himself a worthy holder of the title Home Run King. I would hope Bonds could be worthy, character-wise, but I doubt it. I guess I'll hope A-Rod can take the title eventually (even though he's a ninny), and wistfully wonder what could have been if Junior had only stayed healthy.
And five years from now, Bonds and Marino can get together and just talk about how individual statistics far outweigh the value of a championship.
by Brendanukkah on May 10, 2007 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Bull
What does this even mean? Only "classy" people deserve records? Or do only "classy" people deserve baseball records?
Ty Cobb, greatest hitter of the first 1/2 century, was possibly the meanest person who walked the planet. Ted Williams' ego was infamous. Joe DiMaggio demanded he be called "The Greatest Living Baseball Player" at any speaking engagement.
And what's worse is that the whole Bonds persona is only towards, and because of, the press. Remember a couple of years ago, when he famously said he'd "snap if you people don't back off"? What wasn't reported at the time was (1) he said it because his young son was the one getting crowded, not him, and (2) he'd already asked the reporters to back away once. But no, all we hear about is that asshole Bonds was going to "snap" at a bunch of poor, defenseless reporters. Meanwhile, you never hear his teammates complain. Mark Sweeney, whom Bonds supposedly accused of supplying Bonds amphetamines, said only he couldn't understand how his name came up. Jeff Kent, who got into a fist fight with Bonds, won't say anything bad about him. Doesn't that tell you anything?
If Bonds lied about his steroid testimony, why hasn't he been indicted yet? If he cheated on his taxes (like Schilling accuses him of admitting), why hasn't he been charged? I think I know why - those stories were leaked only to smear him further. If there was any basis to either of those charges, there would have been action by now.
And five years from now, Bonds and Marino can get together and just talk about how individual statistics far outweigh the value of a championship.
Yea. If only Bonds hadn't given up 6 runs to the Angels in the 7th and 8th innings of game 6, he'd have his ring by now.
FWIW..
And if everywhere I went people pointed at me and whispered, "There's the guy the that's still sending roses to Marilyn Monroe's grave even though she left his bitter and jealous ass for a playwright," I think I'd come up with some "Greatest Living YadaYadaYada" line for myself too.
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Slyde. This one's for you.
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
"There he goes"
Points?
by Brendanukkah on May 10, 2007 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's my favorite of Norma Jean.
She'd pass my random testing.
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
This is what I found
My bad.
I must have been thinking of Danny Tartabull.
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I also found this..
"..Now, at 68, Mays says he doesn't much care how he's remembered. But others do. When baseball luminaries were polled after New York Yankees legend Joe DiMaggio died to see who had inherited the title of "greatest living player," St. Louis Cardinals Hall of Fame pitcher Bob Gibson asked incredulously: "You're assuming DiMaggio was the greatest living ballplayer?" Gibson believed Mays was the best even while DiMaggio was alive, and he has a lot of company. And while Mays insists he's never cared about the title, his failure to secure it until DiMaggio's death seemed a little strange to me, a holdover from a time when baseball wasn't ready for its Ruths and Gehrigs and DiMaggios to give way to the Robinsons and the Mayses and the Aarons.
My gut feeling, eccentric and ill-substantiated as it may be, is that Mays never got the full acclaim he deserved, because he was the best in baseball when much of white America wasn't ready for its best player to be black, and some of black America wasn't ready for him to be black like Mays. I grew up in New York in the 1960s listening to white kids argue that the Yankees' Mickey Mantle was better than Mays, one circumstance in which whites are decidedly disadvantaged. And I've wondered if that accounts for Mays' ambivalent relationship with fame. He is known for his kindness to friends, but he can be cantankerous and contemptuous to strangers and fans, and even longtime friends and admirers describe him occasionally as "bitter."
Some people scoff at the notion that Mays never got sufficient credit. "People are going to ask what you've been smoking if you try to say Willie Mays didn't get enough acclaim," San Francisco Giants president (and lifelong Mays fan) Peter Magowan told me when I ran that idea by him. "He was the highest-paid player in baseball in his day. Fans loved him."
But Giants manager Dusty Baker agreed with me. Talking about Mays' difficult relationship with the media, and with the baseball establishment for a time in the early '80s, Baker offers: "What people don't understand is what he went through. You'll just never know. He played in a time when the world wasn't as open-minded as it is now. And to this day, he's never gotten what a Ruth or a Cobb or Lou Gehrig have. You ever see a Willie Mays movie? Me, either. So he's had reason to be bitter. Whole bunch of us had reason."
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
not against the rules of baseball
Law vs. MLB rules
that's not my point
What about amphetamines?
Amphetamines vs. steroids
And of course the flip side is that the long-term physical effects of steroids seem to be far more damaging than those of amphetamines.
I think steroids are worse. I'm not endorsing amphetamines, but they seem to me like just a little bit of cheating -- along the lines of a nod and a wink at Sutton or Perry being inducted into the HOF. In contrast, steroids seem like amphetamines on... uh... well, steroids.
People need to get off of their high horses
Back in the '80s, when everyone assumed Canseco and McGwire were using stroids, no one cared. When Sosa went from a pretty good hitter (OPS+ around 125 for 3 years) to monster (160 or higher 4 of 5 years) overnight, no one cared.
But even more than that - are all of the records from the '60s and '70s questioned because of the prevalent use of amphetamines? Did anyone question Gaylord Perry's qualifications for the Hall of Fame, considering he built them on cheating?
The answers are, of course, no. No one has ever cared, because cheating to win has been a part of sports for as long as there's been sports. And for the most part, those running the sports have looked the other way. Owners were told in '96 that players were using steroids (the GM of the Dodgers thought the number was 10-20%); acting commissioner Bud Selig thought it was "something the owners might look into". We know how far that went. But still, it was out in the public 11 years ago, and no one cared.
So why do you (collectively) care now? Because it's Bonds? Because it's the HR record?
Ty Cobb used to beat up spectators; Don Drysdale threw a second pitch at hitters, so they knew the first one wasn't an accident; there were teams that (collectively) told their owners they wouldn't play with a black person. Why is taking steroids so much worse than what's been going on for the past 125 years?
And if you're trying to make a point by posting the two pictures above, compare pictures of Jr sometime.
personally
Let me clarify something
Anyone caught now deserves what ever punishment they get.
The pictures..
Aside from the "adjusted for inflation" differences between the two Bonds, I see something else in those pictures.
Look into the dark brown eyes of that young player from the past. He can see the future: "I'm going to the show, baby."
Now look at that his wig and his necklace(?) and his tube top and his hearty laugh-along-with-me-because-I'm-your buddy-now smile. In his mind nothing he does can detract from the fact that he is certainly one of the all-time greats. Not steroids. Not grumping and grieving like a surly ass. Not cross-dressing. Nothing. He's an odd post-millennial caricature of Babe Ruth.
"Baby, I am the show."
by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 10, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Bonds, Rose and the MLB
My beef w/ the MLB is this: they are a bunch of hypocrites. They keep Rose not only out of the Hall but banned from the last game at Cinergy, banned from walking on the field in Cincinnati, b/c of how he "embarrassed the game." The same people who refuse to give on this, looked the other way when McGwire and Sosa embarrased the game. Those guys are free to walk on the field whenever they plese and hold whatever job a team might want to offer them, in Sosa's case, he's back running up his HR totals. And now Bonds is going to get one of baseball's most cherished records aided, at least in some degree, by roids. All the while MLB sits on their high horse keeping one arrorgant, tainted player out of the game while letting the other bask in the glory and rake in the cash.
MLB looks the other way while Kenny Rogers blatantly cheats during the World Series but continues to chastise Rose for the violating the "integrity of the game." I would be a lot less outraged by this if the MLB would give Rose at least a partial amnesty and therby admit the one fact that we all know: Professional sports is comprised to a large degree of arrogant, self serving individuals who put the almight dollar ahead of everything else. With this fact in mind it's a lot easier to forgive Bonds, Rose, Mac, and whoever.
by JCH888 on May 10, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions
I think the real issue here is Bonds' hair.
Whatever he's using..

by Alan @ Red Reporter on May 11, 2007 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions

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