What the hell is this supposed to be?

Yes, it's just a hat, but damn if it didn't piss me off nonetheless. I actually think MLB gets a decent amount of things right (mostly having to do with their website offerings, i.e. radio, TV, etc.), but wow do they do some stupid things. Unless this was all New Era, in which case I declare them too stupid to be selling MLB licensed merchandise.
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wow
thats
ok
obviously...
Although...
no it wouldn't
im sorry...
so who cares? they tried something a little bold, and some people will like it and some wont. how does this reflect on the rest of new era's products?
Gangsta?
There are certainly some urban clothing items that I don't fully understand (jerseys with 30 logos on them being the first thing that pops to mind), but I didn't even place this hat in that category. It's just stupid.
I think you're right
Though I must admit, when I first saw it, I thought it was a diss - one of those "rivalry" designs. Like the "Yankees suck"/"Red Sox suck" designs that are approved here in the northeast.
it is just goofy looking
i think so
ugh
i just checked their web site
Atlanta
Baltimore
Boston
Chicago White Sox
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Colorado
Florida
Houston
Kansas City
LA Dodgers
LA Angels
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Oakland
Philly
Pittsburgh
San Diego
San Francisco
Seattle
St. Louis
Toronto
Washington
guess i should have just typed which teams they dont have for sale. oops.
gangsta
I also agree with Daedalus that the hat is part of New Era's appeal to the gangsta image.
The high school where I teach is 95% white, and a considerable number of these white boys is wanna-be bad-boy gangsters. I see hats like these every day, and they are annoying to say the absolute least. They're ugly. They're stupid. They're characteristic of stupid punks.
The sad thing is, I bet they'll sell a ton of them.
graffiti culture
and it's just a hat.
clarified
It's just a hat, but it's freakin ugly.
gangsta/urban
Of course, a much bigger part is having World Series games end after midnight and neglecting urban neighborhoods, but I don't expect that to change under the current leadership.
urban appeal
I'll also add, as someone who became a fan relatively recently, that baseball is not very exciting as modern entertainment is judged. It's not fast-paced. There's not much violence. Innings make it really easy to turn off the TV. With football, there's a "carryover" that makes it hard to turn away. A failed scoring attempt may mean great field position for the opponent. Not so with baseball. Inning over, you're back to square one.
It's very interesting once you get some understanding of the game, but it's pretty boring if you don't understand it. Unlike basketball and football, where even people who don't understand the game can enjoy the action.
wasn't always that way
Yes, it did used to be done
Assuming your mom lets you play outside at all...
The friend who got me into baseball (basically, by being patient enough to answer my dopey questions) is old enough to have seen the 1960 World Series in person. She was just a kid, but she would run over Forbes Field after school. They used to let people in free after the halfway point, and school let out just in time for her to get in free. She was there in person when Maz hit the only walkoff homer in WS history.
What a different world. The WS during the day. And letting people in free. These days, a lot of people won't even take their kids to the ballpark because of the drunken jerks, let alone let a kid go to the park alone.
Only walkoff HR until Joe Carter
sorry
It doesn't get any more dramatic than that. You had to love it...even a Yankee fan like me.
I was driving through Pittsburgh last summer, and took this photo from the car. They left one piece of the outfield wall when they tore down the old stadium:

The white lettering is the distance number where Maz's hit went out.
That's pretty cool
I wish they did it that way in NY
re
We have to be supportive today
This is the first I've succumbed to signatures
different but not so different
fair enough
It's like that in DC
It's not just a hat. The people who wear these types of hats wear them as symbols for their territory - i.e., the city of their gangs. The hats have absolutely nothing to do with baseball, which is one reason I object to New Era selling these types of hats with baseball logos. But the bigger reason I despise them is they are marketing a product to criminals and therefore condoning criminal behavior.
There's a whole forest out there, not just that tree in front of you. It's not just a hat.
Men with hats
re
come on.
it isnt violence. it's a hat.
If that's just a hat
Well said
Enough with the "it's just a hat" argument. I understand where you're coming from, I'm not saying you're bad people, but it totally misses the point. There is nothing in this world that has any meaning except for what we assign to it. To use the flag analogy, I don't know what the Ukrainian flag looks like and I could care less. It has no meaning to me. But there are people who would die for it. It has enormous meaning to them.
I could care less if somebody draws a cartoon depicting the prophet Mohammed. It's a cartoon, I can't begin to comprehend why anybody would turn homicidal over it. And yet dozens of people died in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East last year in the riots protesting such cartoons.
I remember when Air Jordans first came out. Kids were murdered for their sneakers. I remember one story about a kid being murdered because he STEPPED on somebody's sneakers. I could give a crap about sneakers. The ones I own are falling apart and I keep meaning to buy new ones, but never get around to it. But apparently sneakers mean a hell of a lot to some people.
So when I hear "it's just a hat," all I can think is: Yes. To you. It's just a hat to you. Just some cloth with a stupid logo. Ultimately that's what it is to me too. But to some people it is much more. And it is because of those people that I am concerned. I don't know what MLB or New Era was trying to do. I very much doubt that either was trying to glorify gang violence, but I do know that the hat can at least be reasonably interpreted as such. And that's a problem. To dismiss it as silly or no big deal seems to me to be the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "lalalalalalala."
I would love to see MLB do a much better job of reaching out to kids, especially inner city kids. There are many ways to do this, some of which have been done and been very successful in the past (remember those Joe Morgan commercials?) But appealing to the worst impulses of our society and our children, whether intentional or not, is no way to run a railroad.
I've enjoyed this debate
This isn't to say that MLB should ignore negative consequences due to the hats. MLB should consider discontinuing the hats if it can be shown that gangsters buy a significant portion of the hats or if a slew of murders are connected with the hats. But short of something extraordinary, I don't like the idea of MLB dictating its urban marketing policies according to the fashion whims of gangsters.
Good points
And as my other great love is politics, a side comment about civil liberties: I believe that the curtailment (or attempted curtailment) of our civil liberties over the last 6 years is completely the product of an administration led by people who are trying to restore pre-Watergate levels of power to the presidency. In practice it has little to do with terrorists, short of providing a convenient excuse to rein in dissenters. Emboldening the terrorists is the excuse that is used any time someone disagrees with the administration's policies. It worked for a long time too, but now people are finally waking up.
Oops, hope I didn't open a whole new can of worms...
Re
the jordan analogy
this hat is nothing like a flag. it doesnt in itself represent anything other than the reds and a goofy design. plus kids in gangs don't need new ways flag their territory - they already have them.
like bandanas. theres nothing inherently violent about a bandana, or in its design, but theyve been hijacked by kids in gangs nonetheless.
im not sticking my fingers in my ears and singing lalalalalalala, im saying i think you guys overestimate how much influence hat designers have on people with violent behaviors. violent people, and people growing up in highly violent environments, don't need impetus from hat designers to fuel their rage. theyre doing it because it's all they know, and discontinuing a line of hats isnt going curb anything.
now, if you wanna talk about getting handguns off the streets, alleviating drug markets, creating meaningful and relatively well-paying jobs in the innercity or expanding outreach programs that work, then let's talk. but dont come at me with hats. that confuses a symptom with a cause.
that's what i mean when i say it's just a hat.
Clarification
First, though, a thank you. In keeping with the spirit of boobs' earlier "Bletiquette" post, I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the well-reasoned, passionate, respectful debate on this site. In my opinion it is one of the best things about Red Reporter. I'm so tired of sports or political blogs where the debates degenerate into name-calling and personal attacks. Even if I don't agree with you, I respect your right to your own opinion, and I feel that respect back. So thank you, everyone. If only our national political discourse were the same...
Anyway, on to the clarification. I in no way meant to imply that the Air Jordans were the cause of the violence. You're absolutely right to blame the violent kids and not the sneakers. And if it hadn't been the Air Jordans, it would probably have been some other status symbol. I was just trying to illustrate that something that might seem small and insignificant to one person may be a reason to murder to another person.
And that's my argument in a nutshell. You say that the hat doesn't represent anything other than the Reds and a goofy design. My point is that no inanimate object has any meaning apart from what an individual assigns to it. But it's all relative to the individual. You look at the hat and assign to it the meaning of Reds and goofy design. Fair enough. But an inner city kid might look at the same hat and assign to it the meaning of membership in a gang. (And in my view the design of the hat makes this easy to do and very likely.)
And I think that's a bad thing for MLB. I'm not saying the hat will cause kids to join gangs or commit violent acts. Even if it did, if we were to ban the hat something else would take its place. This country was founded on freedoms of speech and expression. MLB has every legal right to market such a hat. But why would it want to?
The philosophy-major in me argues that we make sense of our world largely through symbols (letters, numbers, images, etc.), and these symbols can cause powerful emotional reactions (i.e. a swastika in a synagogue, a burning cross at an NAACP meeting, etc.) Even if it's inadvertent, if this hat can be reasonably construed to symbolize violent gang activity (and I argue that it can), then why would MLB want any part of it? It is in the best interests of a wholesome, family-friendly, "America's pastime" organization like MLB not to potentially normalize or glorify the worst elements of our society. Apart from the ethical issues, it's simply bad PR.
One final thing. In your last paragraph you talk about getting handguns off the streets, which I am 100% in favor of (and, living in NYC, I applaud Mayor Bloomberg's efforts to that end.) But it reminds me of the argument used by the NRA: guns don't kill people, people kill people. Your arguments about the hat seem to me to be the same -- the hat doesn't commit gang violence, violent kids do. What I say to this argument, whether about hats or guns, is that it's true. As far as the surface level goes, nobody can dispute the fundamental truth of the argument. But why allow easy access to guns, such that they might fall into the hands of violent people? And why market a new product that will be used to represent gang violence? Sure, if it's not the hat, they'll find something else. So let them find something else. Don't get my beloved sport and my beloved team in the middle of all this. I can't see any productive purpose that it can serve.
Whoo! I do tend to go on and on, don't I?
i'm just glad that
seriously, there is now a show about people being "smarter" than a fifth grader.
america is trying to outrace rome in decline, i'm afraid.
1$
by ewquinn on Feb 13, 2007 9:43 PM EST reply actions
$10
by Paul Householder on Feb 13, 2007 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
And I'll even...
by Paul Householder on Feb 13, 2007 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm...
Oooh.
I can't seem to find the hat on the Reds' website. Can someone send a link?
by Paul Householder on Feb 16, 2007 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
There are uglier
by manhands on Feb 13, 2007 10:09 PM EST reply actions
It's a cap!
I would never buy one, but it doesn't upset me. There will still be plenty of classic Reds hats to buy. Fashion needs the freedom to be very weird.
Reminds Me
by indy on Feb 14, 2007 8:46 AM EST reply actions
Thoughts..
My second thought on the latter discussions about inter-city youth, maybe this is MLB's way of getting to those kids. Put something out that they will wear and then start paying attention to what's on their head.. It is just a though, but I am sure that MLB does try to think of ways to include youth and inter-city kids.
hey boobs
by rose2hall on Feb 15, 2007 3:54 PM EST reply actions
so would you say...
by rose2hall on Feb 16, 2007 11:14 AM EST up reply actions

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