Wednesday Winter Meetings Open Thread

by JD Arney on Dec 6, 2006 7:26 AM EST in News Comment 51 comments

Julio Lugo

I thought the Alex Gonzalez signing was a good one at least partially because there aren't too many free agent shortstops on the market this offseason. The only real name out there is Julio Lugo, and I assumed he'd be out of the Reds price range. Looks like that was a correct assumption as the Red Sox signed him yesterday for $36 million over four years. The Red Sox seem to have decided to spend their way back to the playoffs, and they've made some really questionable decisions so far this offseason. No way does that J.D. Drew contract not come back to bite them in the ass.

Brian Bannister had popped up as a possible Wayne Krivsky target, but that won't be happening. The Mets traded him yesterday to the Royals for Ambiorix Burgos.

Use this as your Wednesday Winter Meetings open thread.

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Chicken Little

The sky is falling, but it is not Kriv who is driving up crazy prices in the market.....it's Theo Epstein.

$14M/yr to Drew
$9M/yr to Lugo
$51.1M for negotiating rights

I expect a whole rash of small market teams to start singing the blues re: cost of being competitive.

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 9:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

OK...Menace was right about Drew.

I thought he couldn't top $11 million x 3 years. That was before I realized that Vicente Padilla could be worth $34 million for three years.

I agree with JD, however. That $14 million x 5 years is going to look pretty stupid once Drew hurts his pinky toe and is out for 2 1/2 seasons.

I would bet that if Brian B wanted to do his Mike Burns impersonation and was able to pitch a few innings here and there out of the bullpen, he probably could get a deal playing for the minimum somewhere. Either that, or some enterprising GM might sign him and trade him to WayneK for Adam Dunn.

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I could have won a lot of money...

betting on the "over" for this year's market. Well, not a lot of money. These contracts really humble a man.

by Red Menace on Dec 6, 2006 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reds Sox

Couple things on the Red Sox signings... Remember when the Astors released Julio Lugo in the middle of the season in 2003? Now this guy will be earning $9 million a year for the next 4 years, absurd.... Everyone thought JD was an idiot for walking away from $33 million guarenteed over 3 years with LA. Now, not only is he making $3 million more a year, he has two more guarenteed years that had he stuck with the Dodgers he'd be so washed up by 2009 he would have been lucky to get offered a 2 years $6 million deal. Does Bostn realize they have him till 2011?

I wonder what our buddy Andrew over at True Blue LA thinks of all this.

by indy on Dec 6, 2006 9:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Err...

I'm reading alot of different stuff from the media, where they are absolutely bashing the Reds. It makes me sad to root for this team.

Also, Morron's comments about Homer Bailey don't make me have warm feelings about next season...

Michigan was Robbed!

by chandrathan on Dec 6, 2006 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Got a link to the Morron comment re Bailey?

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure do...

Hal McCoy

Michigan was Robbed!

by chandrathan on Dec 6, 2006 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's a disheartening article

Hal McCoy seems to think the Reds need to acquire a fifth starter. He suggests the Reds think they need to as well.

Do I have to physically track down ever Cincinnati fan and writer and show them our list of starters, their stats and how they compare to other teams? Starting pitching is our strength!

McCoy dismisses our fifth starter as "somebody probably to be identified later." Isn't that they way fifth starters have always been? Between Elizardo, Claussen, Belisle and later Bailey aren't the odds good one of them will provide fifth starter level production (and cheaply)?

And the Reds want to acquire a closer, per McCoy. The Reds should make closers!

McCoy critized the Reds' winter thus far, but for all the wrong reasons. The things he wants done are expensive and unnecessary (and he suggests the Reds want them too). It's things like this that make me fear we really don't have a clue.

by Red Menace on Dec 6, 2006 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I did find something in the article...

That gave me some hope.

Of shortstop Gonzalez, Narron said, "His defense is huge. How many times did you see last year when we didn't turn a double play and the next guy hit a home run? I think it was five times."

I guess they finally realized that the solid defender Royce McClayton was not the answer at short...Of course, Narron might have been talking about Felipe Lopez...

Maybe I'm not so encouraged...

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Narron on Bailey

I have no problem with what Narron said. (This is a first.) In fact, I agree with it completely, and I don't see what could possibly be the disagreement.

"I have no timetable on Bailey. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the spring. If he shows he can make pitches, not just throw a lot of fastballs and try to throw the ball past guys, he'll be in the big leagues and be successful."

Narron said Bailey still has to learn to attack hitters with command, location and off-speed pitches, rather than rely solely on fastballs, as he did in Class AA Chattanooga last season. "We had to talk to him about using something other than fastballs. We know he can throw the ball past hitters (in Class AA)."

by greg456 on Dec 6, 2006 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ditto

I wouldn't mind if they had him learned that lesson in the MLB bullpen, but if they want him to do it as a starter, I'm not opposed. However, if he continues to dominate in Louisville and they hold him back, I will continue to get more frustrated.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big Lou

"I love that new owner in Cincinnati," said Piniella, acknowledging that he talked to Castellini. "The timing wasn't right then, and that's too bad. But I love a guy like that because he really wants to win, and he'll do something about it. I like the GM (Krivsky), a good baseball man. Things should get better in Cincinnati."

Man, I didn' know Piniella had actually talked to the Reds. If the "timing" issue was that we have Moron under contract for another year than that really sucks. I'm not looking forward to watching Piniella out managing Narron this year. : (

At least Piniella is optimistic about the direction of baseball in Cincinnati.

by satyanaas on Dec 6, 2006 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

clarification

Does Pinella identifying Kriv as a "good baseball man" equate to being a "BASEBALL GUY"?

If so, THIS IS OOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRR COUNTRY!

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

: ) I noticed that

after I posted. All he needs now is for someone to describe him as a "veteran presence" and he's all set.

by satyanaas on Dec 6, 2006 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, by the way...

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

our perception of baseball contracts is funny

We get really used to the idea that a pitcher like Vicente Padilla is worth 7-8 million dollars a year. It's really a mind-blowing amount to be paid to throw a ball, but we accept it. But now that he gets 11 million, well that's just insane!

It helps to think about all the billions of dollars MLB is making from all its millions of fans. It is proper that a good share go to the players.

Of course this year's bump in the market is surprising. Even a lot of GMs weren't expecting it. It could be a temporary high water mark like the 2001 offseason, but things will keep going up.

by Red Menace on Dec 6, 2006 10:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

tix

$27.50 for MLB bleacher seats. The way of the future.

I am going to start frequenting FlorenceFreedomReporter.com asap.

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The cries are starting to happen

Growing dissent over CBA

Our boy Krivsky gets a half quote:

Because larger-revenue teams can wiggle out of big-contract busts with minimal damage, it allows them far greater flexibility than the small-revenue teams, who, as Cincinnati Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky put it, "just can't get things wrong."

Truer words have never been spoken.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"just can't get things wrong"

Can and does.

by greg456 on Dec 6, 2006 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Could and did also.

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

scoop!

SI's Jon Heyman says the Mets are meeting with the A's to try to azquire Rich Harden.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/06/mets.athletics/index.html

by Red Menace on Dec 6, 2006 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

since Will Carroll is saying that it's either Blanton or Haren. I wonder if one of the two misheard or misread the name. Haren and Harden do look an awful lot alike.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn to the Pirates?

For Zach Duke and Ryan Vogolsong.Could this really happen?

by gnarley on Dec 6, 2006 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If Krivsky does this...

He must be a witch, so we must burn him.

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LaTroy Hawkins signed!

by Colorado...

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 2:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ha!

that has disaster written all over it.

by greg456 on Dec 6, 2006 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

JOSE GUILLEN SIGNED!

by Seattle...

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 2:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Schmidt to the Dodgers

A bargain at $47m over 3 yrs. He'd be the highest paid player on the Reds with that salary.

by Gage on Dec 6, 2006 3:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Holy crap

It's dull today. Somebody start a rumor.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 4:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rodrigo Lopez

Gotham is reporting the Reds are trying to get him.

http://gothambaseball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=9104#9104

by WayneNarron on Dec 6, 2006 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WHoo!!!

Another player linked to the Reds, that I'm not quite sure who they are...

It's depressing watching all these other teams get better, and the Reds going after players that will make no difference whatsoever.

Michigan was Robbed!

by chandrathan on Dec 6, 2006 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gotham Baseball?

Take that to the bank then.

Ah, Rodrigo Lopez, he's in the rare breed of ground ball pitchers who give up a lot of home runs. But at least he allows a lot of base runners too and he made nearly $4 million last season. Thankfully this is a Gotham Baseball rumor, or else I'd be fretting right now.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

second that

The AL's leader in earned runs and losses. He's also been top 10 on hits and home runs allowed. Sounds like a good pitcher to face in GABP.

But you're right, at least it's Gotham.

by KAredsfan on Dec 6, 2006 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Biggest rumour yet in Reds Country

Clemens and Bonds. In Cincy '07.

From the east coast, to the west coast, to the Dixie Highway back home...

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 5:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

anythings possible with Kriv-Cas

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Pettitte now too.

Since he's not retiring. Seriously though, does Houston have any money left?

Krivsky always said life was like a box of players....

by sukr on Dec 6, 2006 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Borowski signs with The Tribe

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

1 yr/$4M, fyi

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

David Delucci signs with The Tribe

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 6, 2006 5:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

wily mo on the move?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2688380

According to Steve Phillips, there is NO truth to a Wily Mo-for-Chad Cordero rumor.

I'm predicting that Wily Mo WILL be traded to the Nats for Cordero for two simple reasons:

Leatherpants
Steve Phillips says it's not true.

by greg456 on Dec 6, 2006 9:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's a pretty safe bet

And then maybe Wily Mo and Austin can platoon again.

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

naturally

Gotta get Nook Logan, Michael Restovich, Ryan Church, and Alex Escobar in the lineup. (Anyone else think it's incredibly funny that Barry Larkin was traded for Alex Escobar like 10 years ago, and he's still around even though he sucks, and who else's roster would he be on but Bowden's?)

by greg456 on Dec 6, 2006 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez/Crisp/Drew + Ortiz

doesn't leave much room for WMP. As many rumor as there have been about Ramirez, he still is in Boston and it looks more and more like he's going to stay there.

by ken on Dec 6, 2006 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can we have WMP back?

He sure would look good as part of a lefty/righty platoon in RF.

Of course, the outfield defense would be pretty brutal...

Maybe he could learn to play first and platoon with Hatte?

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hm. Reds were interested in Dellucci.

From Marc:

Dellucci spoke to the Cleveland media today and told them his choice came down to the Indians and the Reds. Interesting.

The good: Maybe Krivsky can identify the occasional good player.

The bad: He's willing to give actual real, non-monopoly money for Bubba Crosby and Chad Moeller but won't shell out 3 years and $12 million for David Dellucci (which is a bargain).

The ugly: Our offense. Still.

by Geki on Dec 6, 2006 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Breaking News: Soriano traded for Ramirez!!!!

Yep, Rafael for Horacio. Who did you think I meant?

by Slyde on Dec 6, 2006 10:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Memo to Krivsky

THIS IS HOW YOU ACQUIRE RELIEF PITCHING

Soriano: 26 years old, $450K, not yet arbitration eligible, 3:1 K/BB ratio, 1.08 WHIP

Ramirez: 27 years old, $2.2mil, arbitration eligible, 1.25:1 K/BB ratio, 1.52 WHIP

Note that no young, productive everyday players still in arbitration changed hands.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Dec 6, 2006 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sox trade Freddy Garcia...

To the Phils for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez.

Garcia is in the last year of a 3x$9 million contract.

What's the story here?

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 6, 2006 11:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My guess

The Sox wanted to make room in the rotation for Brandon McCarthy, so were dealing from a position of strength. It's a little odd that the main prospect they received is a SP, but Floyd has tons of potential. Two years ago he was untouchable, like Cole Hamels, but he hasn't turned out like the Phillies thought he would. A change of scenery and less pressure may do him good.

The trade frees up payroll for the Sox, so I'm guessing they're not done.

by ken on Dec 7, 2006 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs