Clemens v. McNamee

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 2:22 PM EST

I'm sure some of you are watching/have watched the Clemens interrogation. Use this diary to express your feelings on the testimony.

I was pro-McNamee coming into today, and nothing I've seen changes that. I don't think today was devastating re:Clemens, but I don't really think he did anything to change my mind. I don't like the fact that he coached the nanny before handing her over to the committee. However, I have no reason not to believe Jose Canseco, and if he says Roger wasn't at the steroids party, Roger wasn't at the steroids party.

I think Roger's wife is full of shit. First of all, she's in the gym every day, she's a body-builder type, and she knew exactly what HGH was before she was injected by McNamee. Roger's statement from her soured me on his camp. This whole victim act they're throwing out, including that they didn't know what HGH was or that he didn't know why he took B12 but he thought it was "good not bad", is bullshit. He's a professional athlete, his body is his temple, he knows exactly what all that shit is.

Re: McNamee lying at first about who had used steroids, of course he did. Why wouldn't he? There is obviously an atmosphere in baseball that you lie first, tell your friends later and hope your friends lie for you. Almost no one since this whole thing began has been honest with the government, and it doesn't surprise me that McNamee tried to protect the players at first.

Roger's lawyers are tools.

Pettitte has been caught in a lie, and it turns out he didn't just use HGH once and quit it. He's a big fat phony. But he and his wife ratted Roger out, and Roger's claim that they misunderstood him is pretty far-fetched. They're not stupid -- they know the difference between Roger and his wife. Also, his explanation contradicts the statement made by his wife during the proceedings.

I don't have any proof that McNamee is telling the truth and Roger is lying, but that conclusion still makes the most sense to me.

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Comments

What's the purpose?

What's the purpose of this session? I think we've found a place for a budget cut.

I thought Knoblauch was going to be the wildcard to bring down Roger, not Pettitte.

2-0 count: one pitch, one zone

by rojosoto on Feb 13, 2008 2:43 PM EST reply actions

I'm watching...

only because I can't wait to see Clemens freak out and start throwing punches and eating members of congress...get your popcorn ready!

"Sure, I'd like to tape a baseball game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, but that's just not the way it works." -Hank Hill

by jacob brumfield on Feb 13, 2008 2:57 PM EST reply actions

Please Please Please..

... Let Clemens eat Jean Schmidt.

by RiverfrontDave on Feb 13, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

i'm ignoring this shit

the fact that our tax dollars are going towards this witchhunt just pisses me off to no end. our government is broken, and that congress is involved in investigating problems in sports, which are so sadly elevated to heights exalted higher than anything that is truly important in the world, makes me physically ill.

are american lives so devoid of meaning that we have to get our kicks seeing the downfall of fellow americans on television?

(and i'd kind of like to see clemens throw punches at members of congress. that could be the best thing to happen to this country in a long time. as long as he incapacitated them.)

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply actions

Its hard to ignoring this

when its all over the place, but I agree that Congress should be concerning itself with more important issues and let MLB sort this thing out.

As far as American's obesession with celebrity downfall is concerned, I would love to see a moritorium on all things Britney related by the media.

This situation reminds me of a scene in the movie "New Jack City"... (-Deion Sanders)

by satyanaas on Feb 13, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions

*ignore

Cincinnati Reds 2008: <strike>C You There!</strike> It's hard to ignoring this!

This situation reminds me of a scene in the movie "New Jack City"... (-Deion Sanders)

by satyanaas on Feb 13, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

Umm, Daedalus? I'm wondering about something.

"...that congress is involved in investigating problems in sports, which are so sadly elevated to heights exalted higher than anything that is truly important in the world, makes me physically ill." (posted Wednesday 2/13 3:38 pm)

And yet:

"Saturday (when Reds' pitchers and catchers report) is a holy day ... Such magic words are these: pitchers and catchers report. We feel a surge of excitement run through our bodies, lifting a bit of winter's burden from our shoulders and accelerating our want for warmth and light and the crack of the bat. A sense of opportunity comes to us, the kind of opportunity intrinsic to rebirth. "(posted Wednesday 2/13 12:06 pm)

I feel like I'm being McNamee-ed.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 13, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

give me a break

the blog is called "church of baseball." do you really think i believe it is nothing more than a metaphor for what's good in life?

how stupid do you all take me for?

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think you're stupid.

I just think you're a little bit rant-raving kuh-razee.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 13, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions

i guess i should consider that a compliment

thanks.

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions

I accept your apology.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

holier-than-thou bullshit aside

this is something that almost every baseball fan cares about. It may not be important, in the grand scheme of things, but it sure as hell is entertaining and matters a whole hell of a lot to baseball. anybody who thinks that whether or not roger clemens used steroids doesnt matter is pretending.

should the congress committee on government oversight be spending time trying to clean up america's pastime? That's debatable, especially considering that baseball is intracately woven into the american fabric. But regardless, does this hearing matter to baseball and its fans? Fuck yes.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 4:14 PM EST reply actions

hollier than thou?

your insult is uncalled for and highly unnecessary. you think congress is doing a good job? well, thanks for your contribution to the decline of america.

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

ON SNAp!

Boobs just got Daedalused!

As the old saying goes..."Bart Needs Dentures"

by chandrathan on Feb 13, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions

If your first post wasn't holier than thou

this one surely was.

I'm not sure I get the whole calling in Clemens and McNamee separately thing, but I think Congress has every right to be sticking their nose into this steroid stuff. Baseball is an industry, and it's a special industry in that it's allotted an antitrust exemption by Congress. If Congress doesn't check in on them, then nobody does, especially since the media has done jack squat in the last 20 years on the subject.

Is some of this grandstanding in an election year? Absolutely, but what are you gonna do? If it weren't this, it'd be some or made up issue like tooth paste cap size or same sex marriage.

Are there more pressing needs facing the country right now? Sure, but that doesn't mean that this shouldn't be dealt with. I'm not naive enough to think that all the problems of this world need are for these committee members to stop thinking about baseball.

I agree with boobs. As a baseball fan, this is important. I don't really care who did or didn't do it, but figuring out how to stop it is important. And while it is a bit of a witch hunt, I think part of figuring out how to stop it in the future is trying to figure out who did what to whom when, and then learning from those situations.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

i don't know the extent

you follow politics, but congress' approval rating is in the twenties right now. so i guess the upper seventies percent of us who think congress is doing a poor job are all holier than thou.

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

my diary isnt about congress!

its almost maddening when you keep building a strawman. your comment was holier-than-thou because it denigrated my diary. i dont have any interest in whether you think congress is doing a good job.

did you read my diary before posting?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions

sooo...

i am not allowed to make an off direct topic comment on something that is related?

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions

see above (below)

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

It's not's an either or thing

Do I approve of Congress in general? no.

Am I bothered by them investigating baseball? Also no.

Is that so hard to believe?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

my nut point of view

I'm really glad Congress is focusing their attentions on this inconsequential stuff rather than on the important stuff.

by Red Menace on Feb 13, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

Yes...

Because when they focus on the important stuff, they always seem to get it wrong.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Feb 13, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions

what has the U.S. government ever screwed up?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions

U.S. Court of Appeals (7th Circuit)..

..Case No. 07-2240: OBP v BA

The court found in favor of BA.

Terrible ruling. That's why it's important that the next president appoints more progressive SABR-activist nerdy judges.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 1:28 AM EST up reply actions

Wanna see my nut point?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 1:18 AM EST up reply actions

And rather unfortunately...

...another part of stopping it from happening again in the future is to scare the shit out of all of Clemens's younger union bretheren.

What do you think is the likelihood of Jay Bruce (or any other hotshit prospect) using steroids in the future now that they've seen what Sosa, MacGuire, Palmiero, Clemens have gone through?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 13, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

A pet peeve of mine

but the antitrust exemption only means that federal antitrust law does not apply to baseball. That MLB is an excepted industry from antitrust regulation should have no bearing on the decision to investigate a public health issue, which is how I view the PED problem. I realize you're not saying that the exemption empowers Congress to investigate PED use in baseball. But I feel that ignoring the NFL, NBA, NCAA and high school sports in what should be a comprehensive investigation about PED use is rooted in the misguided notion that baseball should be more closely scrutinized in some regards because it receives a break on antitrust law. This doesn't wash with me at all.

by ken on Feb 13, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions

I understand what you are saying

and I agree to a point. I've always been bothered by how steroid use in other sports is brushed aside while it is made out to be the scourge of baseball.

And while it is a public health issue that they are investigating, I believe this is also a power play by Congress, against the only organization that they hold a real card over. They don't have the same kind of leverage to regulate the NFL or NBA.

What's funny is that I don't really think that antitrust card is all that special. I think the USFL, XFL, and reincarnated ABA have shown that it's not so easy to start up a new league when all fo the best talent goes to where the money is. I'm sure there is more to the antitrust exemption than I understand, but I doubt if MLB lost it, they would be hurt by any sort of real competition in the baseball world.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions

And I freely admit

to only having a cursory understanding of what the antitrust exemption means, so if I am off-base, please set me straight.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions

You're not off-base

No fledgling "XLB" has the right to sue MLB on antitrust grounds (I'd like to see their suicide squeeze). But the exemption has real value in other ways and makes it easier to run the sport. During the franchise relocation and contraction debates the antitrust exemption was a big card for MLB because it shields them from potential antitrust suits brought by owners (wanting to move their teams) and I believe cities (angry that the league is threatening to move the team unless it receives a publicly-financed stadium). The exemption also allows MLB to prevent certain individuals from buying franchises (Mark Cuban, perhaps), though there could be other protections here as well.

And obviously changes to the reserve system could transform the industry. Part of me thinks that the union would take the current system even if the reserve clause was struck because it gifts veterans inflated contracts (no way Gil Meche gets that contract if the market is flooded with Santana, Sabathia, etc.). But the majority of players would certainly benefit from getting more than the leage minimum for their first three years.

I think you're right about the political power play here. Congress can investigate the NFL (e.g., cheating) or the NBA under the commerce clause, but they don't have the exemption to waive in front of those leagues. It puts MLB in a tough spot for now, but I'll bet given the choice they'd rather have the exemption than not. And now, everyone other than (hopefully) Slyde can wake up.

by ken on Feb 13, 2008 7:30 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks ken

I knew there was something more to it.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 9:02 AM EST up reply actions

Damn.

Boobs, is that what you did with my $10?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 13, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions

it wasnt an insult

and i didnt call you out, although saying you're ignoring the proceedings in a diary that i spent a few minutes putting together and am obviously interested in is holier-than-thou. so i accept your apology for insulting me.

back to the issue, one committee's work certainly doesn't encompass the whole of congress, and i'm not sure why you'd make the jump in logic that my interest in this issue means a) i think congress is doing a good job or b) that im contributing to the decline of america. if we're going to discuss congress, then the question is whether the committee on government oversight should be delving into baseball. as slyde points out, there are plausible legislative reasons why it should.

finally, i didn't bring up shit at first about whether the committee should be hearing the issue. even if this interrogation were held at the hague, i'd still be interested in trying to figure out if yet another one of my icons growing up is lying to me about whether he used performance-enhancing drugs.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

well

i think you are reading into my comment more than what i said. i simply was making a statement about how poorly congress is doing and how angry i am that they (or the media, i guess) should devote so much time on such an issue. and yes, i do feel strongly about that, and if i gave you any explanations about some of the thoughts that have prompted such a comment, you'd call me some sort of name or use sarcasm or something.

i wish someone would tell you i don't have horns. and no, i didn't apologize, because i wasn't insulting you.

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions

(it was a colbert joke)

the point is, it's a little grating when you come into the diary and cut the legs from under it without giving the thoughts in it any consideration. it's like if you wrote a diary about building houses and i said all loggers should be "incapacitated."

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

it's a curse

you think someone who doesn't understand colbert jokes (though i think he's hilarious and that press dinner he did with bush in presence could be one of the defining moments of our generation, studied for years by anthropologists), who's never subscribed to cable in her life, who has seen five movies in the theatre in the last five years (casino royale twice), who still hasn't mastered the art of tone, and who doesn't understand her own generation's use of sarcasm and irony is loading comments to insult you? HA!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

HA!

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

so its true...

...living without cable does make you go insane.

"Sure, I'd like to tape a baseball game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, but that's just not the way it works." -Hank Hill

by jacob brumfield on Feb 13, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions

Big fat phony!!!!

by buckeye22fox on Feb 13, 2008 4:39 PM EST reply actions

why is everyone on tv talking about

how great andy pettitte is? This guy lied to the public about his hgh use and then begged out from the public hearing because he didn't want to sully his image. what's so great about him?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 5:06 PM EST reply actions

I was never much of a Pettitte fan

He has hips and lips like a girl. ;-)

And it doesn't surprise me that he turned out to be a cheater. Supposedly, one of the reasons he left the Yankees was that his wife wanted her good Christian husband at home, where she could keep an eye on him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 13, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

The Rocket is full of it

He must think we're idiots. Mike Celizic thinks Clemens has lived in the bubble of celebrity for so long he doesn't understand the rules normal people live by. Let alone that this time, they apply to him, too.

Then there's John Rocker, who claims the Rangers called him, A-Rod, Rafael Palmeiro and Ivan Rodriguez aside and told them how to juice. It wouldn't surprise me, really. One thing that's striking about the Mitchell report: everyone was complicit. The players, the teams, MLB, the players' union.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 13, 2008 5:06 PM EST reply actions

a-rod

this was his second small implication (the first being jose's unsubstantiated allegations). i wonder if there's not some fire behind that smoke.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 13, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions

I think some of it is

these guys throwing names out there until someone bites on one of them. It'd be one thing if someone like Greg Maddux came out and started naming names. But the guys that are spouting off all have some credibility issues. For the most part they are all guys who have been outed or don't really have any obvious friends in the game in the first place. That's why I thought Pettitte would be an interesting witness since he seems well liked. Then again, that is why it would be hard to get information out of him on the record.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 13, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

I'm wondering that, too

Canseco has twice hinted that A-Rod is a juicer. He's an attention-seeker trying to sell books, but he's been pretty much proven correct in his previous allegations.

And he doesn't accuse everyone. He said Jeter never juiced. He claimed Jeter would be the best player you ever saw if he was willing to do some 'roids, but he always refused. At least according to Canseco.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 13, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions

as much as I hate to say it...

...Canseco has been pretty informative. At first I thought he was just looking for attention, and would be shut up, but it seems most of his information has panned out.

"Sure, I'd like to tape a baseball game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, but that's just not the way it works." -Hank Hill

by jacob brumfield on Feb 13, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

QOTD

From here:

Using words like "misremembered" and even mispronouncing McNamee's name at one point, Clemens raised his voice toward the end to interrupt Waxman's closing remarks. Waxman pounded his gavel and said, "Excuse me, but this is not your time to argue with me."

I hope he does something insane and gets hauled to jail.

by jch24 on Feb 13, 2008 5:25 PM EST reply actions

Note to Roger

Don't throw a broken bat at Waxman. The "it was an accident" excuse isn't going to fly.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 13, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

Thank God

(who is presumed dead until located) I am Holier than all of thou....

1.Congress Sucks
2.Andy Petite Sucks
3.Clemmons probably Sucks too,

I, on the other hand don't suck. But I do believe that MLB has to regulated because of their unique Anti-trust standing.Already the baseball industry is almost as crooked as the financial industry in America. BTW everybody on this post is actually talking about the same issues - HGH, Roger, Andy, Brian and the Congress, the millionaire and the movie star.

"Men are ruled,this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern. G.K. Chesterton 1917

by Madville on Feb 13, 2008 5:26 PM EST reply actions

thus proving...

that older IS wiser.

and make sure you put all of the t's in pettttttittttte.

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Feb 13, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions

Andy has small feet.

"Men are ruled,this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern. G.K. Chesterton 1917

by Madville on Feb 13, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions

It's what called a male pornographic fantasy.

Think about it! You're basically alone on a deserted island with two readily available women. One, a seductive sex goddess type. The other... a healthy girl-next-door-type with a nice butt. So the men have it all, the Madonna and the whore. Women get nothing! We get a geek, an overweight middle-age guy, and a nerdy scientific baseball statistic-quoting type.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 13, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions

the millionaire and the movie star

who will be playing the part of the Skipper and little Buddy? And who was sexier Mary Ann or Ginger?

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Feb 13, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

"I, on the other hand don't suck".

This is a fun thread and all, but let's not get carried away here! :-)

As the old saying goes..."Bart Needs Dentures"

by chandrathan on Feb 13, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry, 'than.

"Men are ruled,this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern. G.K. Chesterton 1917

by Madville on Feb 14, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions

Mary Ann was a Tramp

Ginger put out for Gilligan...it's true I read it in the Enquirer.

Tom Browning starring as the skipper, with Ctrent Rosyass as his prison bitch.

"Men are ruled,this minute by the clock, by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern. G.K. Chesterton 1917

by Madville on Feb 13, 2008 7:51 PM EST reply actions

Hey!

Tom Hume could play the perfesser!

I heard that Ginger was a bimbo, but that was on a Miller Lite commercial a few year ago.

STOP TALKING ABOUT OPTIONS! YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOW THEY WORK. -Geki

by Lonesome George on Feb 13, 2008 9:39 PM EST reply actions

Real quick..

Just a thought or two.. Both of these guys are pretty much scum.. Why do you not fire your trainer when you get upset that he gave your wife a bum hgh shot? Why do you keep needles and gauze around? I think they both had dirt on each other and were afraid to part company.

I was very unimpressed with Rodger's hymning and hawing. There is just way to many things against him.. He started the ball rolling "I don't even know what HGH does" and just kept digging deeper and deeper..

-The red brick wall was the color of a brick-red crayon.

by snohio on Feb 13, 2008 10:52 PM EST reply actions