Hal Mc Coy on Reds managerial candidates

by pw on Jul 5, 2007 2:56 PM EDT

Count Hal as one of the writers on the bandwagon for the Reds hiring a high-profile manger: http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2007/07/03/ddn070307mccoy.html

Here's a surprising tidbit from the article:

"Reds owner Bob Castellini is interested in bringing back former Reds outfielder Paul O'Neill, perhaps as a bench coach. O'Neill and Girardi were close when they played together on the New York Yankees in the late 1990s.
Girardi also reportedly told a friend one of the reasons he turned down the Baltimore job last month was that the Cincinnati job was more intriguing."

O'Neill's name hasn't come up before except as a potential broadcaster. He wouldn't settle for underachievement that's for sure.

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"Krivsky also said, "This may be the biggest decision I have to make, and that might be Pete Mackanin.""

and

""I'm involved, very involved," Castellini said. "If we don't get this resolved, I might fire myself. If people want to conceive us a rocky ship, they can do that. We have our direction.""

by Brendanukkah on Jul 5, 2007 3:01 PM EDT reply actions

My heart skips a beat

everytime I see Dusty Baker's name mentioned--not in a good way.

I am terrified of this.

the check when it arrived we went clutch, clutch, clutch, clutch

by Man Mountain on Jul 5, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions

If Baker comes here,

we can pencil in 230 IP for Homer next year. And surgery the year after.

by ken on Jul 5, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Even worse...

Norris Hopper will hit leadoff in every single game.

Please don't trade Adam Dunn.

by Paul Householder on Jul 5, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

At least Ray Olmedo and Will Bergolla are gone

Otherwise they'd be our starting middle infield.

by Geki on Jul 5, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd have been fine with Olmedo

He progressed as a hitter like he was supposed to, but he never could shake the stereotype of the Juan Castro mold. I'd much prefer him as our starting SS than Alex Gonzalez.

by Brian B on Jul 5, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Like he was supposed to?

The highest OPS he ever had in the minors was .749 in AA in 2003, then .740 in AAA in 2004. He managed .717 last year and hasn't hit .700 at any other point in his minor league career. Defensively, he has good range but not a particularly strong arm. Offensively, he provides no power and little speed, and pretty much has to hit .280 to resemble a respectable offensive player. Instead, in 171 major league games, he hit .230/.280/.291. I hate Alex Gonzalez, but Ray Olmedo would be awful as a starting SS.

Honestly, I would've liked to see Bergolla given a chance to really stick with the club as a utility infielder, as he never got any chance at all with the big league club (only 38 PAs) and because he was a few years younger and quite a bit faster than Olmedo while showing off the same amount of hitting skills. That said, I don't really view him as much of a loss, and ultimately, I'd be pissed if either were starting for us.

by Geki on Jul 5, 2007 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions

girardi

It'll be Girardi. I think he's the right guy. Tough, but fair. Did good things with an over-achieving team. Castellini and Krivsky are much easier to work with than Loria. I wouldn't mind it if we had a manager that made players stand up and say "uh oh"

If it's Brenly, Baker or Showalter, I'm going to retire from fandom for about three years, which is how long it will take for 'em to go through the cycle of failure.

by bobestes on Jul 5, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions

and

Don't underestimate the factor of Castellini wanting to get "the guy that everyone else wants". He's big into messages, and I think he'll want to send a message that Cincinnati isn't a baseball backwater, and we can get a top manager just like we did when we hired Sweet Lou.

Personally, I don't understand why they always go cheap on a manager. Let's say you spend $3mil per year on a manager, that's a decent but not amazing outfielder. I'd be willing to do without that for a top notch manager who can motivate players and use a bullpen correctly.

by bobestes on Jul 5, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

But...

That's not necessarily Girardi. One of the beefs the Marlins had with him was his on the field decisions. Bringing back his young pitcher after an 80-minute rain delay. (The kid ended up leaving with an arm injury, out for the rest of the season.) Putting Abercrombie in as LIDR (his two errors cost the Marlins the game).

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 5, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Good catch

Maybe you pair Girardi with an old salty dog like Torre and Zimmer?

by bobestes on Jul 5, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I would give Zimmer a shot

I honestly think he was the secret to Torre's success. At least when it came to in-game strategy. The cameras used to catch Joe asleep on the bench in the dugout, while Zim ran the game.

Once Zimmer left, Torre never napped in the dugout again. The Yankees haven't won it all since he left, either.

And he's from Cincinnnati...

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 5, 2007 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions

You have a stronger stomach than I do!

I don't think I could look at Zim for more than about 2 minutes without getting ill. Poor guy is "ugly as only a mother could love".

by pw on Jul 5, 2007 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Hey

That's the "29th unsexiest male celebrity" you're talking about.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 5, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Zim

is totally cuter than Torre.

by ctnyc on Jul 5, 2007 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

No, he's not

Trust me on this.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 6, 2007 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions

But it's not about "cute"...

...it's about sexy.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 6, 2007 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Which fella is...

...sexier?

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 6, 2007 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Don Zimmer

Wow, you've turned into a right sexy wee bastard. Do you know that?

I don't know why chandrathan is so mad at me. That guy is cuh-razy.

by Slyde on Jul 6, 2007 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Well...

Zim has one wife, whom he's been married to for over 50 years. Torre is on his third. And she's young enough to be his daughter.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 6, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Zim's wife

Does she have impaired vision? :-)

by pw on Jul 6, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Nah

When she married him, he looked like this:

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 6, 2007 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Let's just say

he hasn't aged well. Wow.

by pw on Jul 6, 2007 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Really?

Who are the top 28?

by pw on Jul 5, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions

#1 with a bullet

Gilbert Gottfried

It's not the negativity. It's the misdirected negativity.

by Red Menace on Jul 5, 2007 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Gilbert Gottfried is sexier...

...than Bartolo Colon.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 5, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

You guys are crazy...

Shelden Williams is the ugliest dude alive...

Yep him and Aneus Williams.

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 5, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Gilbert takes it

It's unsexiest, which goes beyond ugliness. You have to account for Gottfried's voice, temperment and distasteful comedy.

And yeah, he did receive the honor.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12376573/from/RL.2/

It's not the negativity. It's the misdirected negativity.

by Red Menace on Jul 6, 2007 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Well then...

What about this girl?

"Give them this: they never let the fact that only half of what they posted was funny stop them from posting still more." - Rastronomicals

by chandrathan on Jul 6, 2007 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions

That's no girl...

...that's David Stern.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 6, 2007 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

The only thing

I like about Girardi is that he's a former catcher. Other than that, he's a self-promoting jerk. He had moderate, short-term success with one team that nobody had any expectations for, and then he played the "I won't go anywhere but a major market" card. I guess the sun rises and sets in his dugout.

Having said that, we need a former catcher who has a clue how to run a pitching staff. Yes, our talent in the bullpen is not great. But having guys warm up every day to pitch to one batter, pitching guys 9 out of 11 games, letting Mike Stanton anywhere near a baseball -- these are the kinds of decisions that need to stop now (with the possible exception of running Stanton out there now for trade value).

I honestly think that somebody who knows how to manage a pitching staff is the miracle drug the Reds need. It's not like we're not scoring runs. Defense could improve, but is not horrible -- certainly not bad enough to sink us. The bench sucks, but it's not the lack of pinch-hitters that's made us the worst team in baseball. It's pitching, and primarily the bullpen. We might not be a championship caliber club this year, but I'm sure we have more talent than our record indicates.

We're not winning anything this year. But for God's sake get a manager in here who knows how to manage a pitching staff, and maybe next year we'll have a snowball's chance in hell.

by ctnyc on Jul 5, 2007 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Former catchers:

Bob Boone
Jerry Narron

just sayin'

"428 feet of man." ~ Jim Day, creepily reliving a Chris Duncan home run.

by Ash on Jul 5, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

the qualifier is that the former catcher has to have a clue how to handle a pitching staff. Being a catcher may be necessary but not sufficient.

by ctnyc on Jul 6, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions

And to be fair

it may not really be absolutely necessary that our new manager be a former catcher, it just seems to me that that would put us on the right path in terms of what's been desperately missing from this club.

I'm not so worried about a manager who can motivate; for better or worse we have plenty of "veteran presence" that can maintain a professional attitude and approach. And I'm not concerned too much about lineup construction; Narron didn't have a clue how to make a lineup and we're still among the league leaders in runs.

What this club needs is someone who can manage a pitching staff, and particularly a young bullpen. Analyze their strengths and weaknesses, put them in positions to succeed, realize when they do and don't have their stuff, not overuse them, give them defined roles that they can count on, those kinds of things. And I don't want somebody who gonna have to learn all that on the job. It seems to me that somebody who has years of experience doing all these things in a game-situation setting is our answer. Hence: a catcher. But I'm willing to embrace a non-catcher, so long as he has the abovementioned qualities. I see so many so-called "good" managers in the game who seem to have every attribute except for the ability to handle the pitching staff. We can't afford one of those right now.

by ctnyc on Jul 6, 2007 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

You caught me. I routinely read the first

sentence of things and skim over the rest if it's more than two sentences long. I'm lazy.

Seriously, though, I get what you're saying. It does make sense - get a guy in here who knows how to handle a pitching staff. We need a leader, not necessarily the "nicest guy in the world."

"428 feet of man." ~ Jim Day, creepily reliving a Chris Duncan home run.

by Ash on Jul 6, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

In his three games

I've mostly liked the way Mackanin has handled the staff. With the very notable exception of removing Belisle after the 4th inning, then going with Stone instead of Gosling. Although Stone did go 1.2 innings before the wheels came off (he's not a long guy. or really a major league guy.). He hasn't played the "righty-lefty matchup" game anywhere near as much as Jerry did. He'll let the relievers go for an inning rather than just one or two batters. So far, he's okay. Time will tell how he holds up.

P.S. We're pretty sure Belisle wasn't hurt, right?

by Brendanukkah on Jul 5, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Reds Manage woes and Candidates.

As that old time and just "old" Reds fan I think the best candidate for a Red's manager went to the windy city and Wrigley Field. Sure Lou has had his ups and downs for God's sake the man has done wonders with unwonderful teams. Somehow if not pennants and World Series appearances he gave them and the fans their money and self respect back.
Things weren't the greatest when he left, but its a new time and new era and its time for "Lou" to come back again to get some of the "old" era back!

by 50 Year Reds Fan on Jul 5, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions

What about Davey?

Anyone think Davey Johnson would want to come back and manage the Reds again? What is he doing now? He was on the USA team staff for the Baseball Classic last year. What would you think of having him back on the bench?

by jambolyajones on Jul 5, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

I would be

thrilled to have Davey Johnson. From what I've read, he's not going to take over a rebuilding project. Whether the Reds are -- or Johnson thinks they are -- is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Jul 5, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions

no manager matters enough

to turn this team into a world series contender, but the wrong manager can certainly keep us in the basement. baker, brenly, johnson, showalter, and every other washed-out jerk that has been mentioned as a candidate is only going to perpetuate the losing. im not sold on girardi either, as one below 500 season with a bunch of overacheivers does not a legend make. however, i do think he would be better than the others who are currently available. he seems like a real tough son of a bitch, the kind of guy who would quit his job because his boss was an asshole. i like that. but no one is going to make the difference we all want them to make.

Barry Larkin is better than 10 super bowls put together

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 5, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions

i disagree

pujols, or maybe a-rod, could make a difference as a player-manager. maybe thats what we should look into doing.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples.

by boobs on Jul 5, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Disagree:

A strong and intelligent manager can make a significant difference in player's performances. Significant.

After all the mamsy-pambsy nice guys run through the Red's manager mill over the past few years, a tough son of a bitch, who is fair and holds players accountable is just the ticket for success.

I mean a tough, don't fuck with me manager, not an asshole like Ray Knight.

"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move." Satchel Paige

by Madville on Jul 5, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

you really think

that manager X, whoever he may be, can come in and pep talk this bullpen into throwing well? no amount of managerial acumen can make bad players into good players. the talent is just not there for this team. the rotation and the lineup are ok, but if we cant nail down the later innings we lose games. unless the new manager can keep inherited runners from scoring, he (or she) will not be able to turn this team into a winner, no matter who he is.

Barry Larkin is better than 10 super bowls put together

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 5, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think they're that bad

My beef with Narron was that he overused the pen, by using too many pitchers in each game. Now, part of that was that none of them could be trusted. So he had a quick hook, with good reason. But part of it was that he liked to play lefty-righty matchup to a ridiculous degree.

No manager is going to turn Ricky Stone into Cy Young. But I think you can do better than Narron did when it comes to putting them in a position to win.

So far, I like that Pete is making an effort to let his relievers start at the beginning of an inning. At least he's trying something different.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 5, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Me too,

We don't have much history to go on, but even in 3 games, Pete Macadoodoo whatever, appears to have a plan as to how he wants to bring this team together and how to let players know what's going to be expected and accepted from them. Pete admits that the bull pen sucks. But I think he also knows that it is his job to make a silk purse out of Mike Stanton's ear. He might just do it.

"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move." Satchel Paige

by Madville on Jul 6, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Pete Mac_____

Think of victories:

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 6, 2007 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions

EARL WEAVER!

He'd be the perfect manager for Adam Dunn.

And I quote:

"what you need is some big cocksucker who hits the three-run homerun"

by bobestes on Jul 5, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions

wasn't a fan of little guys

stealing and getting picked off either.

the check when it arrived we went clutch, clutch, clutch, clutch

by Man Mountain on Jul 5, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Ryan Freel

Woulda been his fave.

Please don't trade Adam Dunn.

by Paul Householder on Jul 5, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Coulda shoulda woulda

not given Narron an extension and brought Lou Pinela back. Just sayin'. Just thinking about all the lost-bets-cows-in-office-stories that will never is enough to make you weep. :* (

Today is the first day of the rest of the season.

by satyanaas on Jul 5, 2007 10:25 PM EDT reply actions

And all the additional revenue that...

...might have been.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jul 5, 2007 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly

Schotzie IV.

Today is the first day of the rest of the season.

by satyanaas on Jul 6, 2007 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

BOB KNIGHT, BOB KNIGHT, BOB KNIGHT

I know he doesn't know anything about baseball, but if he sees Mike Stanton throw he'd punt him through the smoke stacks! They need a Paul O'Neil type dugout. O'Neil never took shit, but more importantly he is not what I would look to as a savior. I think momentum for Girardi is building, and if O'Neil comes with him with have what is needed.

Yes I corked my bat, but I wear goggle, so I must be cool

by spudsmckenzie17 on Jul 5, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

Paul O'Neil - a tough call

He was always beating himself up and whining around about every little thing when he was playing. Don't get me wrong I liked him as a player. So my did friend Calvin (Cal's gay). We used have to sit out in right field when Cal went with us to games because he had a crush on O'Neil and especially loved those tight baseball trousers.
But I digress - O'Neil's temperament is questionable from my point of view. But not his intensity

Zimmer is a gnarled piece of baseball lore - but too damn old to help here now.

"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move." Satchel Paige

by Madville on Jul 6, 2007 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions