Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Big Joe

reading the Joe Morgan story JD linked to reminds me of why I'm so conflicted about Joe as a baseball figure. He seems like such a nice, honorable, and decent man. I'm too young to remember him as a player, but my dad worships him and I've become quite acquainted with his career. Awesome stuff.

BUT...I heard Joe Morgan say this on the radio yesterday and now it seems he's typed it in an ESPN chat:

Hopefully this will be a better week for all of us, and baseball will help us move forward in the aftermath of what happened at Virginia Tech. It has not been a good start to the week. I'm concerned because my two daughters will be going to school two years from now. It's almost like the Imus situation; kids and people going to get educated and being hit from the outside with negative comments and threates on their lives. I guess if you're not safe in college, where are you safe?

I don't for a second think that Joe thinks that the Imus things is as bad as the VT shooting and he probably meant the "atmosphere of vulnerability" on a college campus, but it is the sort of soft-headed analogy that often makes him an embarassment to listen to on any topic. And even more of an embarassment for people who carry water for him as a legendary analyst--not BALLPLAYER--analyst.

I teach on a college campus. I spent yesterday discussing the shooting with my class of college freshman. Yesterday reminded of a year ago when my campus was hit by the "Pit Driver" incident in which, blessedly, no one was killed.

Then, as yesterday, I was shocked by how quickly the students were ready to apologize for or justify the violent actions of an evil person. "He was probably made fun of." or "Maybe people said stuff that hurt his feelings and he felt like he wanted to back at them."

When Joe or Obama or any other public figure links mean or offensive comments to atrocious violence, it helps muddy the waters on what we actually mean by the word "violence." And thereby a powerful word loses some of its distinction, and the distinction becomes less clear. Imus' words do not have the same reality as bullets, but many seem ready to think so. Kids are encouraged to forgive and "try to understand" immediately without going through the proper emotions that make true forgiveness possible: anger, disdain, regret, etc. In fact, these emotions are characterized as unhealthy. On the contrary...

Maybe this is a pointless diary. But it's been weighing on me the last two days. I should probably stary my own blog for crap like this. Sorry.

Comment 49 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I disagree with anything...
Negative said about Joe Morgan.  Of course I'm incredibly biased in that I REALLY like Morgan.  I don't think what he said is bad, he was just relaying bad things that have happened to college students in the last little bit.  

Also, I'd like to say that I think Joe Morgan and larry miller are the best announce team in all of sports...

We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Jon Miller?
Is Larry Miller the guy with the weird nose and curly hair?

I fully understand all the Joe love from 'Natians and I don't begrudge yall for it. He's a lcoal hero and, unlike other local sports figures, not a scumbag. As a analyst, though, he's simply incompetent.

I actually had fun imagining how Joe would respond to the question of whether he works with Jon Miller or Larry Miller:

"Well, first of all, I'm not really sure who I've worked with these past few years because I haven't really been watching the spot directly to my left that much. So I can't really say. But anytime, you've got a ballgame, you're gonna want someone there to tell you what's going on. And you're gonna want the best person for that job, whoever that might be. I'm not sure."

The scene begins with darkness and the profound sound of shaving.

by Man Mountain on Apr 18, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn't remember for sure his first name...
That's actually why I didn't capitalize it...

My Bad...

But I do think he's a great announcer.

We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Larry Miller
Either (1) fat, obnoxious owner of the Jazz; or (2) actor/comedian, a "that guy" with sometimes entertaining roles - the dad in 10 Things I Hate About You, one of the creeps in Best In Show that hits on Catherine O'Hara.

by ken on Apr 18, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Larry Miller
His classic bit is the 5 levels of drinking (warning: audio starts automatically on the site).  It might be a good bit for some around here to listen to. :)

2007 Reds Threat Level is Yellow

by Slyde on Apr 18, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree
And very well written I may add. I think this is a great place to post this

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Morgan the analyst
Although I never got to see him as a player I'll always carry a torch for Morgan the player (led the league in slugging as a second baseman!)--witness my argument with sidnancy last fall on Morgan vs Hornsby.

But Joe the analyst is insufferable. I used to always read his chats before they went behind the curtain at ESPN. FJM still does a good job of pointing out their absurdities, but I really hated his non-answers on everything.

Q: Joe, who do you see winning the AL East this year?

Joe: There are a lot of teams in the AL East. It's too early to make predictions. The Yankees are always good, as are the Red Sox. Toronto has done some things and Tampa has a lot of good young players. And you can't forget Baltimore. The team that wins the most baseball games is going to come out of that division.

by Red Menace on Apr 18, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Morgan
I take his statements as a stream of consciousness about college life.  You're of course absolutely right that it makes no sense to compare racial comments with deadly violence, but Joe is just thinking about his daughters - maybe one or both is a student-athlete - and the agggregate effect of recent events have piqued his concern for their well-being.  

I haven't heard Obama's comments, but I may have to check them out now.  

by ken on Apr 18, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Obama:
"He explained his reasons for changing the tone of the event. Then he quoted Bobby Kennedy's famous speech after Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination, about how, with one act of violence, "the whole nation is degraded." America, Kennedy said, seems to tolerate violence, whether it is "civilian slaughter in far-off lands," our increasingly coarse entertainment culture, or the ready access to guns.

"That was written in 1968--almost 40 years ago," Obama said of Kennedy's remarks. "We haven't made much progress."
Within hours of the shooting at Virginia Tech, Obama threw away his stump speech and talked about the tragic events.

Monday's massacre, the biggest mass shooting in American history, will prompt "all kinds of discussion," Obama said--about crime, violence, gun control, and campus security, among other topics. "But I hope there will be some discussion of violence in all its forms. . . . [In American culture] we glorify it, encourage it, ignore it . . . . It's heartbreaking. And it has to stop."

Violence, and the callousness Americans have for the suffering of victims of violence, poverty, and oppression, is ultimately "rooted in our incapacity to recognize ourselves in each other--not understanding that we're all connected fundamentally as people," Obama said. "Those who may not look like me, talk like me, worship the same God I do, are nonetheless worthy of respect and dignity. . . . [But] at some fundamental level, we're still trapped in this insane belief that we can impose our wills on each other."

Part of the reason things are still as bad as they were 40 years ago, Obama said, in terms of poverty, lack of opportunity, broken health care and education systems, and "a war that never should have been authorized and never should have been fought" (his biggest applause line) is that "we haven't been as engaged as we should be."

"We've given up. We look inward. . . . This same disengagement makes us tolerate violence." He made a pitch for overcoming cynicism and restoring " a sense that we have a mutual responsibility to care for each other."

If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Blessed be Baseball

by Daedalus on Apr 18, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get it...
What's wrong with this?
We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

see below
If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Blessed be Baseball

by Daedalus on Apr 18, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, meant to highlight
the offending words:     "There's also another kind of violence that we're going to have to think about. It's not necessarily the physical violence, but the violence that we perpetrate on each other in other ways," he said, and goes on to catalogue other forms of "violence."

There's the "verbal violence" of Imus.

There's "the violence of men and women who have worked all their lives and suddenly have the rug pulled out from under them because their job is moved to another country."

If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Blessed be Baseball

by Daedalus on Apr 18, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

So,,,
He turned it back into a campaign speech?
We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
i'm not sure what people think he was supposed to do during a campaign speech except make a campaign speech.  what's he supposed to do, go to the vigil and stand next to the president for a photo op?  
I hate work. Blessed be Baseball

by Daedalus on Apr 18, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

While we are at it...
The president should not have been there...

All of those people are grieving.  Having to wait in line for an hour for security did not help them....

George Bush has no ties to the university, and his being there only made it harder on the people that were truly effected...

We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're absolutely right
Not only did his presence cause people to wait in line for security purposes, it further taxed the campus administration and police and local authorities who were already overextended with the investigation and coping with the aftermath of the tragedy.

by pw on Apr 18, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

but..
if he had not gone it would have been said that he was indifferent, that he didn't care since he is a lame duck.

Is it not possible that he actually cares and has genuine compassion?

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Causing more grief to people in mourning?
No he doesn't care...

I see it as a PR move...

We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good enough for me...
This isn't the appropriate place for such a discussion anyway...
We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

probably true
but I do have a pretty awesome story about W

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do Share...
We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

My story
Prior to the last Presidential Election, Bush was visiting Columbus. My brother-in-law went to see him and had the opportunity to have a chance to meet him after the speech. He had written a letter to the President and asked the Secret Service if he could give it to him. After the letter was cleared he was permitted to hand it to him. When the President came through the line he handed it to Bush who stopped, opened the letter and read it in front of my brother-in-law. The letter contained words of support and the fact that his wife, who had wanted to attend, couldn't be there due to her fight with breast cancer. Bush turned to an aide and asked for paper and a pen. He then knelt down and wrote a note to her wishing her well and saying that he and Laura would keep them in their prayers. Mrs. Bush and Ms Rice also signed the note.

They talked for a short time and then Bush continued down the line. My brother-in-law was so excited he ran to his car to call his wife. She was not doing well with her battle and just was too weak to come out of the house. He called and could not get an answer. He called back and still no answer. He called again and her very weak trembling, crying voice answered. When he asked what was wrong she said "you won't believe who just called me" When the President got to Air Force One he had someone find the number and he personally called her to wish her well and to encourage her in her battle with cancer.

A few weeks later, on the Friday prior to the election, Bush was back in town and he called the house. My brother in law didn't get the phone before it went to the answering machine and was amazed to hear Bush's voice. He picked up and was faced with telling the President that she had lost her battle with breast cancer earlier in the week. The President talked to, comforted and consoled him for several minutes while the recording was still going.

He told my brother in law that they would continue to pray for him and their surviving children. The next Spring he called again and invited my brother in law and his children to come to DC for the White House Easter Egg Roll., which they attended.

While I do not agree with the President on many issues I will never question his genuine compassion for people.

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
That's pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing.

by Red Menace on Apr 18, 2007 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

my pleasure
Got me a little teary eyed thinking about her. But it is nice to tell that story every now and again.

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

"a war that never should have been ...
was that another Kennedy reference or was he talking about now?

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Evil?
Was the Va. Tech shooter evil or was he mentally ill or deranged? I'm certainly not condoning or excusing what he did, but why didn't he get help from his parents or those at V.T. who were aware of some of his serious problems?

by pw on Apr 18, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm going to respond to this later
I've been thinking about this shooting since I heard about it and want to throw some thoughts out there, and since you brought it up, I think this is the perfect forum.  (I can feel sukr rolling his eyes.) But now I gotta go downstairs for happy hour, where we'll probably talk about this subject some more.  

I hope the whole country talks about this.  And not in that superficial "oh, it's sad, i'll go back to my regular life now" kind of way.  Dialogue is healthy.  Ignoring problems is not!

I hate work. Blessed be Baseball

by Daedalus on Apr 18, 2007 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Some thoughts
I enjoyed reading through folks' comments. I appreciate not being called an idiot; I know the point I'm trying to make is a stretch.

As someone who deals with words all day, I'm sensitive to the ways in which our language is impoverished when a word loses its distinction. At one point, not so long ago, a writer would have been able to describe "love" in any number of terms familiar to a general reader--varying in degree, intensity, intention, etc. By the same token, a English poet writing in the 10th century would have had about 100 common words at his disposal to describe a "violent" act.

In education policy primers now, it is not uncommon to see a tiff between two kids in the sandbox described as "violence" as though it were the same word used to describe a car-bombing on CNN. That lack of distinction removes, although slowly and subtly, important notions of degree and importance.

I referred to Obama not to single him out--all politicians speak in these sorts of terms now--but just to point out the latest permutation of the "quiet violence" idea. Politicians are a good bellwhether for what buzz words are attractive to the populace at large. I happened to catch his comments.

As to the shooter receiving mental help/intervention, I am quite sympathetic to the admin. over at Tech; it seems they did all they could and a little more. I've had emotionally troubled students every single semester--some worse than others--and you try to find out what's going on and give them information about counciling and encourage them to go BUT ultimately they're adults and you can't make them go. That's the big difference between getting them at 17 and getting them at 18; as much as we are wont to infantilize college students, legally, they're adults.

The scene begins with darkness and the profound sound of shaving.

by Man Mountain on Apr 18, 2007 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Food for thought
I disagree with you, but I completely understand your stance. I suppose it all comes down to whether shades of grey are acceptable or not. I tend to be very wary of absolutes, such as the idea that a word should only be used in certain contexts. I believe in the malleability of language and I distrust institutionalization of language.

Having devoted 4 years of my life to studying African American history, I also believe that "violence" is a perfectly acceptable term in reference to bigotry, hatred, and discrimination, particularly when African Americans themselves use that word. I find this acceptable because for scores of years, brutal violence, the violence that struck on Monday, existed behind those words.

I don't think it's wise to dissociate violence from bigotry, because there is a danger of future generations becoming unaware of the connection between the two. I feel this is a far greater danger than a slight muddying of a particular word.

Consider the outpouring of domestic and international shock and grief. Ultimately, it has showed me that the actions matter more than the labels we attach to them. I don't think what happened on Monday is any less horrific because someone like Obama used "violence" in another context.

I do worry about media coverage, and if it gets any worse than it does, then perhaps I would tend to agree with you. Major network news has devolved into nothing more than a corporate-approved checklist of buzzwords.

So I agree with your overall premise. If we reduce the number of words used in dialogue, it will be harmful. However, since the meaning of "violence" itself is readily indicated by its context, then I don't think we have to worry as much.

Finally, I don't think you should be surprised that people are reacting to you lucidly and with civility, because that is exactly how you treat everyone else. In the words of Ali G, respeck.

by teb7 on Apr 18, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

words
Maybe someone here knows this, but at one time I heard a factoid about the average number of words people regularly use. The point was it was shockingly low.

by Red Menace on Apr 18, 2007 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

number of words
Ok, I've been doing some searches and it looks like the "average number of words used" is an urban legend. I've found numerous claims that women use more words per day than men--the numbers are usually 2,000 for men and 7,000 for women, but sometimes it's as high as 12,000/30,000. In no instance were the numbers backed up by any sort of citation, and usually they were in the form of a joke. I did find one actual study that found the women speak slightly more words per day than men, but it did not concern variety of vocabulary.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming...

by Red Menace on Apr 18, 2007 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

PS
I guess I should explain myself further regarding connotation. I think the use of the word "violence" to describe acts that aren't necessarily the denotation of the word is a conscious strategy designed to draw attention to marginalization. So yeah, I'd concede that when Obama used violence in the way he does, it was hyperbolic. But again, given the past connection between bigoted language and in the flesh ultraviolence, I think it's justified hyperbole.

by teb7 on Apr 18, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, if you can't intervene,
how about putting the very troubled students on a local "Do not sell firearms to" list?

by pw on Apr 18, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

there was no way to prevent this
short of Chris Rock's $5000 per bullet theory

by Caleb on Apr 18, 2007 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unworkable!
If there was/is no way to prevent this, our society is in really big trouble. We'd better start to figure out how to fix it.

by pw on Apr 19, 2007 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

We need to keep working on it...
I really do agree with that but how do you fix a broken kid like that young man?  

by Caleb on Apr 19, 2007 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Through Jesus Christ.
I know, I'm opening a can of worms here, but I'm telling you what works for me. This kid ranted about Christianity in his video. Maybe he was picked on. Maybe he wasn't exposed to Christians who love their neighbors the way they love themselves and who do unto others as they would have done unto them. Maybe he needed to be, not with a flyer handed out and never followed up upon but by someone who came alongside him as a real, deep friend. I might note that I'm preaching to myself, here.

I'm not removing responsibility from the young man who pulled the trigger. I'm saying that we Christians haven't done as well as we need in telling people about love. Often, people hear that either they bow down to a god they can't see or they're doomed to eternal damnation. They need to hear about a God who loves them, who would have died for them if they were the only person on the planet. And we need to show them that kind of love.

I work for Fellowship of Christian Athletes. We work with all kids, using the platform of athletics to reach out. We're in high schools, middle schools and colleges -- public and private -- every day and what we do is well within the law. I see kids who experience unimaginable hurt in their lives. Reaching out to them is incredibly rewarding. It's lifechanging --for them, for me and for our student-athletes and coaches.

I enjoy the discussion on this forum. I've never personally met any of you (that I am aware, at least), but hope to change that. No, I'm not going to hand you a Bible and commence to preaching. I simply enjoy hanging out with Reds fans. You appear to be a fun, thoughtful bunch.

And, for the record, I like Joe Morgan. Having grown up with the Big Red Machine, I'm sure that colors my view, but I think he'd be a heck of a manager.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 19, 2007 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Respect
Thundering, I am glad you have found something that works for you. In the interest of disclosure, I should share that it doesn't work for me. But I respect you and your right to believe what you believe and conduct yourself as you see fit. And it is that respect, along with the love and understanding that you mention, that is so sorely missing from our society today. We all have our own beliefs, and none of us can offer definitive proof that our beliefs are correct. But we can all strive to understand, respect, and love one another. If anything good can come of such an horrific occurrence, perhaps it is to accelerate these strivings.

Having said that, I speculate that a lot of this kid's trouble might have been the result of mental illness. The best, most loving messages in the world can be obliterated by psychosis. We as a culture need to work much harder to extend our understanding, love, and respect to those who suffer from such debilitating illnesses. The history of our treatment of the mentally ill is abominable, and it needs much more compassion today. I belive that only in this way can we ever hope to prevent such needless tragedies, and save not only the victims, but the perpetrators themselves.

by ctnyc on Apr 19, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know what you mean.
You make excellent points.

I do appreciate the respect you offered. Sometimes when a Christian mentions his faith, the next thing he has to do is duck.

Even if we take out of the Bible the virgin birth, Christ rising from the dead and all the miracles, it's a tremendous book of principles for us to live by.

Being a Marshall guy, I can relate a bit to the massive loss of life from one campus. Still, it's difficult to fathom. My prayers and thoughts go out to VT.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 20, 2007 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

First of all MM, thanks for this forum/diary.
When I read yesterday (or perhaps Monday?) that you taught college freshmen I thought about asking you for your "close to home" perspective on these events. When the kids at Columbine were murdered I was at the time furthering my studies in the field of education and I found myself indentifying with the teachers in that school and school district.  This week I'm having trouble grounding myself in any one apropriate perspective. I've got to admit that I've been tempted to stumble down the Cho-Seung-Hui cult of personality rabbit hole and into the blog-by-blog analysis. (Hey Cho, thanks for the cell phone videos! Asshole.) So Man Mountain, you should know that your Big Joe diary (and everyone's comments) helped me keep myself free and clear of the "click here. And here. And here and here" shameful crap that even the front page of NYTimes.com is linking to.  (That may sound harsh and overly critical but right now I'm angry that 33 families haven't even had the chance to take inventory of their forever fractured lives and bury their loved ones while you know Matt Lauer is pulling an all-nighter trying to sweet talk one or two of the victims' pretty little sisters into an 8am video-link interview while the boys at Netflix are burning two thousand new copies of a subtitled Oldboy.)  Anyway, Man Mountain and Red Reporters, thanks for keeping it real.

Secondly Man Mountain (and I am hoping to not come across as facetious here) as you are the professional wordsmith and RR's resident belletrist who "sensitive to...our language" has created this diary about words and their sometimes well-intended uses and their sometimes misbegotten meanings, I would ask you to share more of your perspective on how we (and by "we" I mean anyone anywhere engaged in the conversation in any way) should refer to "what happened at Virginia Tech" (as Joe described it).  After some quick thoughts I (above) used "these events" but that was only because I was hoping to initially focus attention on my gratitude and not on my opinions on the matter.  But "these events" have been referred to (in print and on television) as "senseless killings," a murderous rampage," and here at Red Reporter as "the tragedy," "this shooting," and "violent actions of an evil person."  All of these (and surely many other) descriptions are fitting in different contexts but I sense that we may quickly be settling on something similar to kind old Joe's innocuous "what happened at Virginia Tech" when frankly I'd rather hear a few more people call it "some fucked up shit" for another week or so.

I'm asking you all to pay attention and please keep posting in this diary (as Daedalus said, "Dialogue is healthy.")  Let me know who uses what words to describe "what happened."  Nearly everyone is bound to have an opinion on the various indecorous details of "the events" and that's fine.  That's gonna happen whether its a true national tragedy or it's Janet Jackson's tit.  But personally I'm interested in how we shape Aprils' remaining discourse and dialogue.  What did your mom call it?  Your grandma?  Your Republican brother?  Your Libertarian neighbor?  Your taxi driver?  Your pastor?  (Was it the same term at the beginning of the sermon as it was at the end?)  What do you call it?

I got more (including some thoughts on my man Joe Morgan and a hopefully inspiring post-Columbine story that I like to share with educators) but it's late and I don't want to be known as "Longest Comment Ever" Alan.

by Alan @ Red Reporter on Apr 19, 2007 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Longest Comment Ever" Alan
not even close.. I would guess Michael still holds that "honor"

Great post.
I was thinking last night about this diary and while this is a baseball blog it has become more than that over the last year  or so. It is a community unto itself. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for that. I know it helps me in times like these to be able to talk, debate, and discuss with friends these things that are on all of our minds.

Man Mountain -
Thank you for being a wordsmith. You truly are a virtuoso who makes us stop and think about our writings and what the words really mean. Your students are fortunate to have you as their teacher.

by Caleb on Apr 19, 2007 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey gang..
..My apologies if I was digging too deep or going back to the well once too often or poking at open sores or whatever.  I was hoping to read some more thoughtful thoughts on the matters here but I might have just cleared the room instead.  I can appreciate a certain amount of a "don't upset the herd" mentality in a community like this so if we're all ready to get a little silly and play some ball I can get with that too.

Peace.

by Alan @ Red Reporter on Apr 19, 2007 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's cool
I just think this is a great release. I'm sure we all are feeling frustrated and a little disillusioned after Va Tech. It is nice to be able to discuss it. At least it is for me.

by Caleb on Apr 19, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Psst
I think you meant "counseling".

by pw on Apr 19, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

my mistake
I thought this was a diary to bash Joe Morgan for his inane analysis. I'll save it for the future.

by Red Menace on Apr 18, 2007 7:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Joe Morgan Rules!
We're wanted men, we'll strike again...but first let's have a beer!

by chandrathan on Apr 18, 2007 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mourner in Chief
I realize this could easily become an ugly political fight, but we've been successfully toeing the line so let's continue.

The thoughts above about Bush attending the services quickly brought to mind the criticism he once received for not attending the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq nor receiving the caskets at Dover Air Force base. His defenders claimed Bush wasn't the 'Mourner-in-Chief' yet those same words have been popping up all over the net since the tragedy.

So what's changed? You could cite logistical reasons (he can't pay tribute to every fallen soldier and it would be arbitrary to only honor some) or strategic reasons (appearing in Blacksburg doesn't 'embolden an enemy.' Or you can connect the dots through polling numbers and political calculations (it's not hard). I don't have any answers and am just noting the different positions.

I'm reminded of Helen Mirren's Queen Elizabeth lamenting the the public's desire for emotionalism has trumped a history of British stoicism. "I prefer to keep my feelings to myself. Foolishly I believe that was what the people wanted from their queen."

by Red Menace on Apr 19, 2007 12:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Cincinnati Reds. Community Guidlines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Long-hair-baseball-player_small
Red Reporter Field Trip: Taking in BP at GABP, but not with BP
Turtle17_small
The Draft: Reds all-time best, 1 through 40.
Anime_small
The Ranch (Bailey vs. Sale)
Anime_small
Rainy Sunday (Leake vs. Skaggs)
Mister_redlegs_hasaposse1_small
Requiem For Riverfront

Recent FanPosts

Superstock_866-4854_small
The "supergrover : you ain't getting rid of me that easy post
Jcueto_lol_small
MLB 12: The Show - Custom Chapman Cover
500x_custom_1271135923567_jaybruce_small
2012 Depth Concerns
1295279046-zack-morris-phone_small
Why Is Ryan Hanigan's Bat Wasted?
Herve_small
From The Opponent's Feed™: Not-a-Homer Simpson
Turtle17_small
The Draft: Richie Shaffer-3B-Clemson.
Rorschach_small_small
Sunday's Rockies game - Anyone here going?
1310_small
Pls Help Me Figure Out Who Signed This Ball
Anime_small
A Salami For Soto (Villareal vs. Cloyd)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Yahoo_full_count

Bench Coaches

How-thomas-the-tank-engine-works-11_small BK

Ken_fish_called_wanda_small ken

Zombie-mlb_small Charlie Scrabbles

340x_charliesheen_small Kevin Mitchell is Batman

5851799_small FordhamRam

Lurch_small UncleWeez

Long-hair-baseball-player_small -ManBearPig

Nyc_small AC Slider

Beat Reporters

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Turtle17_small Thundering Turtle

Small riverfront76

Piñata_small kcgard2