Franklin + Jerry

by JCH888 on Sep 13, 2006 1:21 AM EDT

I was wondering how anyone can claim that Narron is not a horrible manager w/ the way he constantly uses Franklin. I respect Marty Brennamen, but how he can defend Narron is beyond me. Is there anyone of us that didn't know Franklin was going to blow the lead tonight besides maybe Jerry? Jerry's like a little kid that keeps putting his hands on the hot stove, he's not learning his lesson so something must be seriously wrong.

I'm not saying the Reds pen is great, but IMO the problem isn't so much the pitchers but how they're used. We were very fortunate to escape w/ a win tonight but it's clear that Narron is managing this team out of contention.

Poll

What Would Be a More Important Move?

Firing Narron

16 votes

DFAing Franklin

9 votes

25 votes | Poll has closed

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Some Numbers

Last night in the game thread, Daedauls asked me to check into Franklin's "success rate" when he comes into the game with the Reds leading. Well, I did that this morning (during a conference call that I had no need to be on), and most unexpectedly I found that Franklin has only come into the game with the Reds leading twice. As you would guess though, he did not finish those innings with the lead. On August 19th, the Reds led the Pirates 7-6 in the top of the 7th before Franklin allowed a single, double, and sac fly to surrender the lead. And then the other instance was last night's debacle.

Some other notes:

Franklin has faced 45 batters in close games (Tied or within 2 runs either way). Those batters have hit 6 doubles, 2 home runs, and 6 walks for a .342/.422/.658 line.
To his credit, Franklin has inherited 8 runners with the Reds and only one of those have scored. Of course, that one that scored didn't even count against him as he was brought in to finish off a bases loaded walk for Coffey on 8/23. In true Franklin form, though it did give the Astros a 3-2 lead in the game.
Of the 15 games that Franklin has pitched in, the Reds have won 5 of them. Of those 5, Franklin has 4 wins where he pitched an inning (or less) and the Reds scored the go ahead run the next inning. Ergo, he's a good pitcher. Wins are all that matter, right?

by Slyde on Sep 13, 2006 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

He really is a good pitcher!

So far, we'd still be under the impression that we can't hit rookies and that Franklin sux. Slyde, your reality is starting to take the fun out of being bitter. Can't you skew just one set of stats for us so they support our biased opinions? :)

Honestly, have we allowed our frustration to be channeled to one guy? Why do we think he sucks?

I don't trust boobs.

by sukr on Sep 13, 2006 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

I may have missed the sarcasm

on your two questions, but I think the frustration with Franklin and Narron, while a bit exaggerated, is not unwarranted. Franklin has done very little show that he worth having in the bullpen, and yet he has pitched in 15 of the 32 games the Reds have played in since he came over. In 11 of those 15, the game was within 2 or fewer runs when he entered. He's surrendered 11 total runs in those 11 games (not counting the inherited runner that scored). He may have turned into the McClayton joke of the bullpen, but he hasn't proven to me why I should think any differently of him.

by Slyde on Sep 13, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

No sarcasm, execpt for

the subject line. I'm just suprised at how good thos e numbers are. Not that they're good. But far better than I would have expected. It just seems like we loathe him entirely, and maybe he's a scapegoat of sorts. The real shocker to me is only 1 of 8 inherited runners have scored. Why does it seem like there were more?

"Exaggerated but not unwarranted." Good point. That makes me feel a little better about our scathing rebukes.

I don't trust boobs.

by sukr on Sep 13, 2006 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

L'histoire de Franklin

I go back to the stat line for close and late situations. He turns the average hitter into the equivalent of Albert Pujols.

Yes he has five wins in 15 appearances, but you have to look past the numbers to situations in order to figure out why we hate him so (and with good reason). First of all, he really has 14 "real" appearances, because one of the "appearances" was a LaRussa-type appearance in which he didn't even throw a pitch and got taken out for a lefty.

He has two losses (August 7 and August 29). August 7, he gave up the winning run to St. Louis in the bottom of the 9th, spoiling a 7-inning, one-run gem by Kyle Lohse. That got Reds fans riled up pretty badly, because a win would have brought the Reds within one game of the Cards at the time. August 29 was the game in which he gave up the leadoff homer to Ramon Martinez of the Dodgers in the bottom of the 16th inning. That was also a heartbreaker, particularly when the Reds had come back from a 3-0 deficit earlier in the game.

Among his five wins, he also has August 19, where he actually blew the save, giving up a tying run to Pittsburgh before the Reds exploded in the bottom of the inning for seven runs.

He also has September 6 (the Sunny D game), where Sunny D actually held the Giants to 2 runs, and then Franklin gave up a home run to Durham in the 6th, which proved to be the difference, as the Reds lost (again to a WC rival or the Cards) 3-2.

Those, plus the two "backbreaker" episodes that Slyde refers to below, make six out of 14 appearances where Reds fans would have an issue with him (and justifiably so).

Add to it that he has pitched far, far worse for the Reds than the Phils, and you have the reason we hate him.

Don't mind me...just pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Sep 13, 2006 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Aha!

He does suck! This is a nice breakdown too. It gets to the heart of the emotional reasons we hate him.

Thank you both!

I don't trust boobs.

by sukr on Sep 13, 2006 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, the one pitch he threw

in the 16 inning debacle, the slider right down the heart of the plate that he went on to say he would thrown again in the same situation (Really? Moron.), that ended up being hit really, really far cemented my hate of Franklin. I mean, fine you made a mistake, but you'd do it again? And Jerry, you made a mistake but you keep running him out there again and again?

Franklin could pitch perfect baseball from here until the end of the season and I'd still think he was an overall detriment to the team.

"Way to go Sparks, you broke the monitor and you're dead. Happy?" - Hazel "Hank" Murphy

by Ash on Sep 13, 2006 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

True.

Unfortunately for him, there's not much left of the season to prove anything. We'll go into the off season hoping he's on someone's list.

I don't trust boobs.

by sukr on Sep 13, 2006 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

question

I thought a pitcher had to throw a pitch if he enters the game?

"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Sep 13, 2006 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Paul's mistaken

Yes, a pitcher does have to throw a pitch after being brought into a game.

The specifics of Franklin's situation is that he replaced Coffey (on 8/23) after Coffey got thrown out arguing a ball call. The count to Ensberg was 3-1 when Franklin entered the game. He threw 2 pitches (a strike and a ball) and walked Ensberg, but the walk was credited to Coffey since he started the at bat. Franklin was then removed for Cormier who allowed the 3 inherited runners (all Coffey's) to score plus one more. So Franklin actually pitched, but was only credited with an appearance and 2 pitches, nothing else.

by Slyde on Sep 13, 2006 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

You're right.

Got confused.

Don't mind me...just pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Sep 13, 2006 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice work.

Any way to figure out how many "backbreaker" runs he gave up?

I'd consider a backbreaker run to be a run that he gives up in the sixth to ninth innings situations where Reds were behind but close (within two runs) when he came in and not so close when he came out.

It's pretty telling that in close games, he has allowed a 1.080 OPS. He basically turns the average hitter into Albert Pujols (.323/.426/.677) with a little less slugging and a higher BA (which would make Michael happy).

Don't mind me...just pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Sep 13, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Paul

it looks like just twice that he's done that for a total of 4 runs.

August 25, down 2-1 in the 8th, Franklin walked 2 batters and then gave up a 2-run double to Matt Morris and the Reds lost 4-1. The Reds had Hatteberg, Griffey, and EdE coming up in the 9th.
Sept 9, down 5-4 in the top of the 9th, Franklin gave up 2 runs on an error, walk, and double. The Reds had Hatteberg (PH), Freel, and Clayton up in the bottom of the 9th.

I hate to pile it on him, but he's been particularly bad in his last 6 appearances, pitching 6.1 innings, giving up 10 hits, 2 HR, 8 BB, and 9 total runs. I sure hope Jerry reconsiders his use during the last 2.5 weeks of the season.

by Slyde on Sep 13, 2006 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Any way to figure out ???

Don't you love how we all ask that of Slyde? And of course there is always a way. Incredible. Thanks dude for breaking it down all year for us

"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Sep 13, 2006 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes.

Thanks.

Surprised this thread has not yet mentioned photos of Narron dressed as Little Bo Peep.

Oh well...there it went.

Don't mind me...just pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Sep 13, 2006 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

If it helps any...

I did bring up blackmail photos in the game thread last night concerning Narron and Franklin, although I didn't mention the infamous Little Bo Peep photos specifically.

"Way to go Sparks, you broke the monitor and you're dead. Happy?" - Hazel "Hank" Murphy

by Ash on Sep 13, 2006 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions