Rewind Game 1: Reds vs. Brewers (Opening Day - March 31, 2011)
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 6, 2012 5:00 PM EST
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PrintThis is the first of four Fox Sports Ohio "Classic Rewinds" and, for the blog, a sort of "manager and writers report" tune-up for spring game threading. Watching these rewinds, especially the one airing tonight, is a little like watching Titantic - we already know the precise details of the dramatic finish. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the surprise nudity and Celine Dion vocal stylings along the way.
Chuck Klosterman wrote an article exploring the question, "Why is watching a prerecorded sporting event less pleasurable than watching the same game live?" We can cross out some of his reasons why for this particular game - such as, "If this game has already ended and I don't know anything about what happened, it was probably just a game" - because this was a fun and exciting game for Reds fans. You can also choose to forgo using DVR to avoid treating the game like a highlight reel, while preserving some of the dramatic breaks inherent in live TV.
Better still, you can use this real-time game thread to create the illusion the game is unfolding live. You could get a really precise lobotomy to, if not remove the 2011 season, at least Opening Day so that you can experience it anew. In fact, I would recommend rejecting the ridiculous notion that this game is being broadcast from archival material and, instead, embrace the reality that there is no such thing as objective time - moments are relative and perpetual. It's just as plausible that Fox Sports is hooked up to the past through whatever wormhole Dennis Quaid was using in the movie Frequency. The game could turn out differently if you don't comment hard enough.
Whatever you choose to do, let's remember that March 31, 2011 was a happier time in a season that peaked way too early. Ramon Hernandez has since left for purpler mountains (I won't ruin anything, but he has some cool scenes in this one). While the bottom four spots in last season's Opening Day lineup are due to turn over this season, the core of the offense is intact and will be counted on to carry the load this season. Contrast that with the Brewers' lineup: the two pillars of its offense will be gone this Opening Day (Braun for the first 50 games, as of now) - although so will Yuniesky Betancourt.
A quick accounting of the offseason says the Reds stayed at least steady offensively and took a big leap forward with their pitching staff, as the Brewers took a step back on offense. After the first series of 2011, I never would have predicted the Brewers would go on to (SPOILER ALERT) become division champs, but that was myopia in a long season. The Brewers were aggressive in the offseason last year. The Reds let them test out that strategy before they jumped in.
One more SPOILER: the first inning is pretty graphic and not for the feint of heart.
Lineups and vintage game thread content after the junk.
Here's original game preview by Charlies Scrabbles:
Now begins the 2011 season of Cincinnati Reds baseball. This Opening Day feels different from those of recent past. For years, the offseason felt impossibly long. When the previous season is effectively over by August, the winter months are that much colder. Opening Day has meant a new beginning, a fresh start, the chance to finally rinse the stale, festering taste of defeat from our mouths.Not this year. This year, we have remained fat and vibrant through the lean months, sustained by the images of a pennant still projected on the backs of our eyelids. This has been the most comfortable offseason I've ever experienced as a Reds fan, so to be perfectly honest, it feels a bit early for Opening Day. That doesn't mean I'm any less excited, though.
These first three weeks of the season could be huge for our Reds. After the Brewers leave town, we get the Astros, Diamondbacks, Padres, Pirates, and Diamondbacks again. That looks to me like the perfect opportunity to build an early five-game NL Central lead. But first thing's first, and we have to deal with this formidable Brewers team. Fortunately, we will miss their new ace Zack Greinke as he will begin the year on the DL. Yovanni Gallardo is a legitimate ace though, so it won't be any easier.
Baseball is back, Reds fans. Now let's go win ourselves a World Series.
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So I can relive opening day, minus the strep throat I ahd on opening day?
Awesome.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
No, you have to act like you have strep again when commenting on this article
Whoever lives past today and comes home safely will rouse himself each year on this day, show his neighbors his scars, and tell embellished stories of all their great feats of battle.
Reds 7
Brewers 6
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
by DerekH91 on Feb 6, 2012 5:12 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
I wondered if anyone would try this ... well done and 2 points for you ...
… points don’t mean squat at this point …
Individuality: Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.
Not for me. I'm Sofa King Famous
I parked at the levee at 8am to be on Mo’s show. Presto! Cheap all day parking!
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
the real question is
are you wearing the fleece this evening?
by 'tHan on Feb 6, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope
but I am wearing a traditional black sweater.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Gotta get back in ty-eem!
Gotta get back in time!
by poojols on Feb 6, 2012 5:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's probably warmer today than it was on Opening Day.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
I am making my own burgers
today is burger grillin weather!
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
fine, we'll just drink draft 90 minute and then we'll go see excalib8 and get jameson burgers
then go to chip’s and get opening day burgers
overall, opening day was pretty awesome last year
I'm pretty sure I went to Chip's Grill last year on Opening Day as well.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Wait, did we do all of that on opening day?
I remember walking into Chip’s Grill directly after the home run
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Feb 6, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
You were drunk!
I’m pretty sure it was cold that day. I do know that it snowed two days before Opening Day.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
There was snow on the ground at my house on Opening Day
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Does it make me a bad person that I laughed when I saw that the lady who claims she lost her virginity to JFK when she was 19 also claimed
Kennedy taught Alford to make scrambled eggs
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I don't know, i feel like I shouldn't laugh at that.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Seeing a game thread on the front page made my heart jump up and flutter a little bit.
Then I got sad because I can’t watch this game today and there’s no new baseball for at least a month and my day has been all kinds of shitty so far and I need a drink.
So thanks for nothing, jerks.
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions
yeah, I got the same feeling when I saw it.
This is also, unfortunately, the first time I’ve really realized that not having FS Ohio is going to piss me off to no end.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 6, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
February is a shitty mouth
Despite it being 28.25 days long, it usually feels like the longest month of the year.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
No kidding!
I keep trying to date things March today, which is a little pathetic considering we’re still in the double digits of February.
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
And by double, I mean single.
/Jay Bruce in right field intimidation’d
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
A shitty mouth?
I have a picture I could post here, but…
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
is it this one?
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Feb 6, 2012 7:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know the implication here is that this kid has been eating poo.
But this picture is still objectively adorable. So cute.
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Dang.
I’d forgotten that the Reds won their first five.
Anybody recall anything good/great about games 2-5?
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
umm...
optimism?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 6, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
I remember having wildly unrealistic expectations for the season. I thought that team was gunna run shit.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I remember those.
BP was hot IIRC.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 6, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
I had good seats to game three, I got drunk, the Reds won, and I got laid afterwards.
/coolstorybro’d
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Feb 6, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember telling a friend who is a Cardinals fan, that the Reds were on pace to win the division by 90 games.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I told a friend who's a Red Sox fan that the Red Sox couldn't win until the Reds lost.
It kind of came true, actually
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
I CAN’T WAIT FOR BASEBALL
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I'm picturing you doing something like this:
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reminds me.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 6, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
ha! yeah, that's kind of how i feel
saw the muppets the other day. good little movie
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Is it bad that I saw it twice in theaters?
by the finest muffins on Feb 6, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
did you get stoned first?
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
eek
My heart beat faster when I saw the game thread formatting.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Jim Day. Still fat. Still kills giraffes in anger.
by FordhamRam on Feb 6, 2012 7:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
he wasn't a giraffe killer yet, was he?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
he does new intros for these?
So that’s what he does in the off-season.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
what the heck
is that tattoo on Ramoan’s arm? Chinese?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Janny went 2 for 4 in this game
Such a promising start.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
same can be said for the season
I had to work during the game and when I’d left off listening we were losing. When I checked the score letter I was delighted to see we had won and really thought 2011 would be special. I continued to believe it until the road trip of doom
Is the road trip of doom the road trip through Philly?
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
i lost a lot of enthusiasm too
i know it is hard to make blanket statements, but good teams really can’t afford too many 8 game losing streaks.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
indeed
the one where we lost 6 in a row and one in 19 innings (that sounds a bit like a Friends title)
I remember that.
It was really sad.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Feb 6, 2012 8:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the worst was i was really looking forward to that series
I thought that would be a series of redemption that would show the 2011 Reds had stepped their game up compared to the 2010 Reds.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I can remember being really, reeeeeeally disappointed that Gomes was playing so much during that stretch.
Shocker, I know.
I hope I don’t refer to this as /Ludwick’d this time next year.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 6, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
that reminds me
Dusty experimented with Gomes hitting behind Votto during the Cleveland series right? I seem to remember being very angry about the batting order that series
it was about 1:30 or so
when that happened, when we lost the 19 inning one. I remember Wilson Valdez was trending on Twitter and I began to curse and carry on in general
I was having a good bye dinner with some friends in Chicago
when i left to go eat, the Reds were down by 4 and Hallady was pitching so I assumed they lost. When I came back it was in the 11th or 12th inning.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
that was the straw that broke the camel's back
I remember Miggy even attacking the team a bit after the game
I was thinking that, too
The season started out so well. The first month or two were great.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I missed part of this game live.
I really wish I had FSOhio right now.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
Has anyone else had trouble with SB Nation recently?
Comments not posting, pages not loading, that sort of thing?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
Has traffic gone up dramatically?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
beats me
But I’d guess they were hammered by the Super Bowl.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I was hammered by the Super Bowl too!
started drinking kinda early though
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Hey, it's Clutch Man!
Wonder how he’ll do this game?
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
"A lot more power than people give him credit for" (Regarding Janish)
Heh.
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
tHom?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
But guess who is?
Hall of famer Johnny Bencj
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Feb 6, 2012 8:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Too bad his outstanding career was overshadowed by the even better Johnny Bench.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Feb 6, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"I have a Croatian cousin? Awesome!"
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 6, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
This game is a real lesson in choosing the right PED
and drug-masking regime.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 6, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Man, he hit the shit out of that
I won’t miss that for 50 games next year
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
I see the Cubs signed Cardenas...
I already hate Theo.
Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.
by badenjr on Feb 6, 2012 10:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
They got Gerardo Concepcion too
no telling if he’ll turn out at all, but Theo is making nice moves. Helps validate “Os” Walt’s Win Now strategy though.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 7, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Granted, the Cubs 2011 results don't mirror the Reds' 2010 results
but it seems that Theo is making the “right” moves for this offseason, but isn’t trying for blockbusters just to make one happen. I think he realizes he’ll be in a better position with better players next offseason…and I’ll say right now that I won’t be at all surprised if Matt Cain doesn’t end up signing as a Cub.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
not exactly a lie
"We had discussions with them a while ago," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said. "The last we heard he was going to Texas. That was on Monday. I don’t know if that deal is still in place."
"If he doesn’t sign," Jocketty said, "we’d take another look at it."
So the Reds may be talking to Oswalt again.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Neither do I.
They would be foolish to expect Oswalt to be healthy for the entire season, and with the 5 other guys he doesn’t have to be, he just needs to throw about 150 innings or so, and if the Reds make the playoffs, be healthy for the playoffs.
If Oswalt is healthy and shows no signs of back issues, and it is July and Bronson Arroyo does not appear to belong on a big league staff, I wonder if the Reds would be willing to cut ties with him?
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
someone else mentioned it elsewhere, but it deserves mention because it's a valid idea.
Moving Masset makes a lot more sense than moving Homer right now.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
the budget thing sucks
the best thing to do would be to put LeCure or Ondrusek in AAA and Bailey in the bullpen.
Bailey could start out down there as a long reliever, he could always move back to the rotation. Also he could have success in the bullpen, he has been an injury prone and mediocre starter, 80 good innings in relief is probably more valuable than 120 mediocre innings in the rotation.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I think the best idea is to send Arroyo down
if someone claims him, let them take him, use the money for Oswalt and another AAAA starter, a la Francis. If not, keep him in AAA for depth.
when do his 10/5 rights kick in?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think it's just a few weeks into the season
If they could trade him…It won’t happen, but damn, if it did…
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
Arroyo can (and most likely will) refuse a demotion.
The Reds can put him on waivers, but it is doubtful anyone will claim him.
So the best thing is to give Arroyo 6 weeks to prove himself.
Jack Morris put up an ERA+ of 79 in 1989 when he was 34, and he bounced back to put up an ERA+ of 89 (not great but serviceable) in 1989, and an ERA+ of 125 in 1990.
Jamie Moyer put up an ERA+ of 83 in 2000 when he was 37 and bounced back to put up an ERA+ of 122 in 2001.
Just two random players, but it isn’t impossible for a guy in his mid-30s to bounce back from an abysmal season, especially a guy who was hampered by mono and back problems.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
How will he "refuse" a demotion?
I do think he will bounce back this season. But do I think his bounce-back will be worse than the seasons Homer or Oswalt or Leake will have? Yes. So since he is “untradeable”, the option I laid out is the only way I see the Reds creating the payroll in order to sign Oswalt, other than a crafty extension of BP that somehow reduces his salary this year (which I feel like is just as unlikely as Arroyo getting traded)
Whether Arroyo accepts an assignment to AAA (he won't)
or is released, the Reds have to pay his salary. They can do whatever they want with Arroyo, but he will still get paid.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Even if he couldn't
his deal is guaranteed. They owe him the money no matter happens.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
After I believe 5 years of service time a player can refuse a demotion.
Carlos Silva refused his demotion, and forced the Cubs to choose between releasing him or keeping him on the big league roster, they choose to release him and he was still paid.
Arroyo would most likely refuse the demotion, because could probably find a major league job somewhere else, and that team would only have to pay him league minimum, and the Reds would be on the hook for the rest of his contract.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I agree with that, too, but I mentioned Masset purely because he's making more money
AND he’s signed for 2 years, so from a trade perspective he’s attractive. I don’t want to move Masset per se, but he makes enough money to mean moving him could potentially open the door for Oswalt.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno
It doesn’t add up. Oswalt wants $8 mil or so, right? How is clearing $2.5 mil or so by trading Homer or Masset going to make the difference? And if it does make the difference, why can’t Bob make it happen without having to subtract valuable players?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
That's true, too.
I’m not sure. I hate the Ludwick signing again all of a sudden.
Hello...
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
Heh
I just can’t imagine that little bit of money is really the difference maker here. I think the Homer trade speculation was just Fay trying to find some extra money in the budget. It doesn’t sound reasonable though.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
It really doesn't.
Which is unfortunate, because I really think it would be a kick-ass signing.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
I refuse to rule anything out now
Walt is pretty good at his job.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I like Walt all well and good and all
but I’m not ready to say he’s above average at his job yet.
He’s made several questionable lucrative extensions to over the hill veterans (Arroyo, Rolen, Cairo), he’s failed to sign the club’s 2 best position players long term (Phillips, Votto), and he’s traded away a loaded farm system for other pieces (Latos, Marshall).
I like a lot of what he’s done, but I’m still not fully sold. Oswalt would be a good barometer of being “good at his job,” I think, much like signing Berkman would have been last year (derp.)
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Arroyo deal is the only one I really hate
Rolen’s wasn’t bad, considering how it was really just pushing back some of his ’10 salary. Cairo is only a $2 mil deal, so there is no way in hell you can be angry about that, and I would argue that not signing BeePers is probably the right move.
But yeah, he can certainly do more. He can always do more.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Them points are true
but what I’m saying is that you, me, and most of RR is competent enough to make some of those moves. They’re not that hard, right? It’s the judgement calls, the “either/or” decisions that really define a good GM from a bad one, to me, and the only big ones he’s made thus far still have years to be evaluated.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
I get that
but you have to admit that he hasn’t made many bad moves. That’s gotta count for something, right?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
oh sure.
He’s not made moves to where we say “Damn, he’s a terrible GM!”
He’s not Jim Bowden, and he’s drafted quite well (and maintained a great scouting network, which is HUGE in my mind).
But the biggest big-money deals he’s doled out have been bad so far, and that’s a big deal. So far, Chapman hasn’t panned out, nor has Arroyo or Rolen. Bruce has been solid, and so has Cueto, but the Votto, Phillips, and Latos scenarios are still up in the air.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I guess he did mismanage Chapman
Chapman losing a year of development last year sucked.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
yeah it did.
And let’s not forget, he tried to sign Volquez to a 4 year deal, too.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
I bet Volquez is kicking himself for that.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
To be fair...
No one saw Edinson going downhill like this. Sure, he had the TJ and PED thing but to attempt locking up a guy who has a insanely high ceiling and has proven he can pitch with the best of them (in 08) to a sizeable but still affordable contract is a good move. He almost had to attempt to sign him long term. I still say it was a safer bet than Darvish is. I don’t think anyone foresaw Volquez plummeting like he did. Regress a bit and then come back? Yeah. But to shit his pants like last season…
Every GM makes some bad moves
Really the Bronson extension is the only really bad thing I can think of.
I mean T-Virus and Cpat sucked, but those moves did not cripple the organization.
He hasn’t traded any promising young players for expensive overrated over the hill overpaid veterans..
Walt is not the best GM, but he is really far from the worst.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
it's all the deferred money I'm worried about
He seems to be counting on winning leading to increased ticket sales, and that’s how the Reds will pay all the deferred money without a Marlins-like firesale.
That could easily go wrong, IMO. Very wrong.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
anyone have any figures on how much deferred money there is?
at the most in any given season? Even with all the deferments, I doubt it’ll be much more than $10-15m per season. Which is nothing to sneeze at, but I doubt it’d lead to an all-out fire sale.
THERE’S A FIRE
sale
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I don't think it's even close to that
Arroyo gets $1.5-2 mil per year until 2021.
According to Cots, Rolen doesn’t really have any deferred money, but rather his signing bonus is deferred throughout the life of his contract. So he’ll be off the books free and clear after this season.
Chapman’s bonus is deferred until 2020 at $1.25-1.5 mil per. So the most deferred money the Reds owe going forward is less than $4 mil in any given season.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
HE MUST BE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY OR I WILL NOT BE IMPRESSED!
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
especially if it is between Cincinnati and St. Louis.
Bob should look at signing Oswalt as protecting his investment, he has already added some payroll in Madson, and the Reds took a gamble trading 3 top 10 prospects for Latos, would you really want that to turn to shit (say one from the Leake, Latos, Cueto trio get hurt or otherwise falter, and Oswalt is a badass this year), and think I wonder what would have happened if we added Oswalt?
Really the only way Oswalt is a total bust is if he is too injured to produce. If he is healthy and the Reds are good he helps them compete, if he is healthy and the Reds are bad, he could be flipped for a valuable prospect at the deadline.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Would someone like Oswalt take a contract that was highly performance-based?
(i.e. if Oswalt had a full bounce-back, he might make twice the amount he’s currently asking for.)
Perhaps
or Bob may have a set number of say $5M that he is willing to add, and if the Reds sign Oswalt to a creative one year $8M deal, and trade Bailey (or Masset), that might do it.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Sure
But at that point, why would Bob not kick in the extra cash? It’s like all those idiots on House Hunters who walk away from a house because they aren’t willing to kick in the extra 10 grand. The sellers are asking $445k, but the House Hunters set themselves a budget of $435k. That extra little bit of cash isn’t really all that significant, given the already sizable investment, but for whatever reason they stick to their arbitrary limit.
Jerks.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
I am giving you a potential situation, it is the only way that trading Bailey or Masset to sign Oswalt makes sense
But I would like to believe Bob is smarter than that.
I am hopeful that Bob really trusts Walt and that Walt is able to talk him into kicking in the extra $8M it would take to sign Oswalt. Lets face it a rotation of Latos, Cueto, Oswalt, Leake, and Arroyo, with Bailey, Chapman, and maybe even Francis waiting in the wings, would probably be the best rotation the Reds have had in my lifetime.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
and Walt may be giving Fay bad information
Did we see the Latos deal before it happened?
Did we see the Marshall deal before it was basically done?
Did we see the Madson deal before it was all but finished?
Did we see the Inquisition?
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I agree that we shouldn't get rid of Homer
but I don’t think the solution is putting him in the bullpen. From all accounts, its not a position he will excel in and he probably won’t be happy about the “demotion”.
There's really no other place to put him, unfortunately
In an ideal world, they’d trade Arroyo, pick up the majority of his salary, sign Oswalt, and roll with a Cueto/Latos/Oswalt/Leake/Bailey rotation. Chapman and Francis would be waiting in the wings in the minors, and LeCure would be the emergency starter. But, I don’t think they can move Arroyo before the start the season, and if they signed Oswalt, there’s no one else in the rotation they could demote (Leake is the only guy they would even consider, but he’s clearly the better choice if they’re going be preformance.) So if they intend to keep Bailey, and sign Oswalt, one of them has to go to the bullpen.
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
What has Homer Bailey accomplished as a big league pitcher?
I will tell you what he has accomplished. He has accomplished making it to the big leagues, and little beyond that.
He should realize he is no longer a prospect, he is not an established player, and at best right now he is a suspect, and he isn’t too far from the baseball wilderness of being a waiver claim, being booted off the 40 man roster, or being non-tendered after the season. Homer Bailey is a 26 year starting pitcher with no options, who has never pitched more than 132 innings in a season or held his ERA below 4.40.
He was the #1 or 1A prospect in baseball 5 years ago, and has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself, and the only thing he has done is not be so bad that he forced the Reds to DFA.
I really don’t care if he is upset (not that what I think matters, but the organization shouldn’t care either) about being moved to the bullpen, he is one of 25 guys, you get what you get in baseball by earning it and right now Mat Latos, Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake, and Bronson Arroyo (despite being awful last year) have all accomplished enough in their careers to earn a rotation spot, and all of those guys, except Bronson made their MLB and professional debuts after Homer.
I am not saying I am ready to give up on Homer, I am not. If he can stay healthy I think he can be a steady serviceable to above average MLB starting pitcher,
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
by Yossarian22 on Feb 7, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he's thrown 200 innings in a season if you combine his minors numbers with his majors numbers.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Also
if you combine his minors and majors numbers, then Freddie Mercury will wear a banana hat.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
and when our powers combine...
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
"If he had as many stickin' out of him as been's stuck in him, he's look like a...."
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
He accomplished more in 2011 than Bronson did
My whole reasoning is that Homer Bailey is a better pitcher than Bronson Arroyo. So I think the Reds should leave no stone unturned in finding a way to put him in the rotation over Bronson. And its not being discussed at all.
“He’s untradeable,” or “He makes to much money,” is all that’s ever said. I was just throwing out an option I hadn’t seen talked about before. To me its not that unreasonable that he gets traded, albeit it will be for close to absolutely nothing, to a large market team starved for pitching that maybe thinks they can extend him and take some of the money that would be guaranteed in 2013 and spread it out over a few years
Um...
You’re comparing Homer Bailey’s best season (132 IP, 4.43 era) to Bronson’s worst where he struggled with mono. And Bronson still pitched 67 more innings. Bronson will bounce back, have an era hoving slightly below 4 and eat up about 200 innings. And besides, we know Bronson’s issue last year, he was sick.
Right now you don’t trade Bronson because you’re going to get absolutely no return on him and you’d have to eat a huge chunk of that contract. If he’s doing well by the ASB and posting an ERA around 3.50-3.75 you sell high to fill some holes in your depth from injury or guys falling apart at the plate and bring up Chapman and Francis. Then, finally, you send a singing telegram to Cardinals Nation with three simple words: “Prepare your anus”
Well Homer is about to enter the prime of his career
while Bronson is getting old so I think its fair to compare the two seasons. Secondly, we do not know for sure the sickness affected the whole season. We assume and we hope it did because it means there was a reason he wasn’t very good and he should be better this year if healthy.
And you won’t be able to trade him by the All-Star break. By then he will be a 10/5 guy and can veto any trade he wants and probably won’t want to leave a contender if the Reds are in that position. So if you are going to move him you have to act now.
In an ideal world, Homer has options or Bronson’s contract is tradable, but neither of those is an option. And in my opinion, if the they end up getting Oswalt the best 2012 Reds team has Homer Bailey in the rotation over Bronson Arroyo. And since the Reds appear to be in an all-in, grab-it-by-the-balls, attitude I think they should do everything in their power to make that happen.
A large market team that is desperate for pitching
could have picked up Jeff Francis or Edwin Jackson, or Roy Oswalt, or any number of other guys who are cheaper.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
HGTV FTW!
Tell me you’re signing up for the HGTV Dream Home (and $500K!)!
Future Mrs. KMiB has me signing up for this twice a day, and I’m pretty sure HGTV has a single intern dedicated to filling my Gmail up purely with their trash, but there’s a chance I might win! It could be the RR ski cabin!
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
St. Jude's had a House of Dreams giveaway this past summer
For a $100 donation, you could enter to win the $400k house. The best part was that there were only 700 tickets sold, so we had a 1 in 700 chance. We didn’t win, though. Some jerkhole did.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 7, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
sounds like
The Reds are only interested if the price comes down or the deal can be “creatively structured.”
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Lucky for us Walt knows how to do 'creative structuring.'
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 7, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
where the F is Cy?
or the burger tour crew, for that matter?
Crushed a burger at the West End Tavern tonight, and it was thoroughly kick-ass. I’ll admit, the $3 Fat Tire draughts “because it was snowing,” the hot waitress, and good company helped as well, but that place is officially on my rotation.
Hello...BOOMSHAKALAKA!
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 7, 2012 12:55 AM EST reply actions
Where the hell's the recap?!
’Nukkah!
by poojols on Feb 7, 2012 8:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The eyewitness report was better
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
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