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Ranking the Reds, Fantasy Island Edition

Keying off the Red Reporter Spring Training roster posted last week, I took a look at the likely members of the Opening Day 25 through the fantasy lens - which players have the highest potential value over a full season in conventional rotisserie stats and which might be worth putting on your "watch list" for possible savvy pick-up at some point after the draft. Some of these players beyond the Top 5 probably wouldn't merit much consideration during the draft, unless you're playing in a deep (>12 teams or so) or NL-only league.

There's nothing wrong with assembling a Reds-heavy roster, though you should be careful about letting sentimental ties get in the way of competitiveness. We all love Sam LeCure, but he's not going to bring you life-giving saves. And if he is, we're all in a heap of trouble.

Top 5

  1. Joey Votto (Yahoo! Composite Ranking @ 1B: #3): Votto is routinely being ranked within the Top 5 overall by fantasy fundits. The only reservation about taking him in the mid-to-late first round is whether you're skeptical enough to think his power will dip again (RotoChamp, Bill James, fFans and PECOTA have him at 30-32 HRs) or that Cozart and Stubbs will struggle to get on base and create RBI opportunities in front of him.
  2. Jay Bruce (OF #15): The Boss's average tumbled to .256 last year, but he did set career highs in HRs (32) and SBs (8). Entering his Age 25 season after posting an ISO only a few clicks away from Votto's last season, Bruce is a good bet to lead the team in home runs (projection systems give him the edge over Joey). His wildly fluctuating season-to-season BABIP could decide to settle higher than his career average, while his potential for a monster season as he approaches his prime could blow past his projections. That and his MMA-style offseason workouts give him the nod at #2 over BP. I've taken him too high the last two seasons (3rd or 4th round), but a stopped watch is eventually right, provided it's powered by unlimited potential and kinetic bat energy.
  3. Brandon Phillips (2B #6): BP's average draft position at Mock Draft Central is 60, which puts him around the late 5th-early 6th rounds. He might be undervalued at that position, making him a potential top tier arbitrage if taken in the 4th or 5th rounds. You'd just have to hope that, after a fluky-looking season (with a BABIP 30 points over his career average) he's not going to be bitten too much by age or regression. I'm pretty confident his HRs and SBs can hover around 20 for a few more seasons, even if he can't sustain the batted ball success that got him to an even .300 average last year. He's increased his OBP in each of the last four seasons, so there's reason to think that better pitch selection could continue to help his average and power numbers.
  4. Mat Latos (SP #28): Fake Teams echoes the optimism we've had here in the face of post-PETCO questions: "The potential of GABP to affect his stats is overreported as people all too willingly overlook the positives (2 fastballs and a slider that rate above average, a high K-rate supported by his swinging strikeout numbers, a low walk rate, and his age, which is still only 24). He's slipping down draft boards, which means you could find yourself a nice little bargain in the 6th or 7th round."
  5. Johnny Cueto (SP #40): The peripherals put red flags all over Cueto's injury-plagued 2011, which is why the projections generally have him back around the mid-3.00s (PECOTA is especially pessimistic at 4.33). While there's plenty of reason to question the sustainability of last season's tiny ERA, both the projections and peripherals may ignore the extent to which Cueto has adjusted his approach to become a ground ball pitcher. As another Red hitting his prime years - and one who has improved every single year in the majors - continuing to pitch smarter and get better outcomes is just as reasonable an expectation as a +1.00 ERA regression.

Star-divide

Honorable mention: Ryan Madson (RP #12)

Undervalued in the draft

Mike Leake: Though there are obligatory questions about whether his innings will catch up with him again, you can do a lot worse if you're filling out your rotation and groping around for a pitcher good for Wins and a sub-4.00 ERA.

Drew Stubbs: He'll be snatched up whenever there's a run on speed, but I wouldn't have any qualms about drafting him a little earlier as a 4th OF. Even if he doesn't find the power he had in 2010, he's good for runs too.

Probably undrafted sleepers, unless your playing with a bunch of myopic Reds fans

Homer Bailey - I've drafted him two years in a row in a 12 team league. I would think he'd go undrafted in an all-MLB league with a regular roster size. But maybe not.

Scott Rolen - Pick-up him up on the waiver wire after his second first half injury, but before his first second-half DL stint.

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Happy Valentine's Day, RR!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 14, 2012 9:17 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Pillows? Furniture?

Wow. He’s all la ti da these days I guess.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Leake

Let’s also mention here that the league has figured out Mike Leake.

by Brian B on Feb 14, 2012 9:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I haven't understood this yet.

He improved in literally every metric (besides batting metrics) last year.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Not only did he improve in every way in 2011 vs 2010, he also improved during 2011

He was clearly a better pitcher in the 2nd half of last year than the first.

I just hope they continue to “figure him out”, because it seems the better the league understands him, the better his results.

The gross and net result of it is that people who spent most of their natural lives riding iron bicycles over the rocky roadsteads of this parish get their personalities mixed up with the personalities of their bicycle as a result of the interchanging of the atoms of each of them and you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who are nearly half people and half bicycles…

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Feb 14, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I don't really get this
Though there are obligatory questions about whether his innings will catch up with him again

Mike Leake’s best starts came at the end of the season (granted they were against the Cubs).

I am honestly more concerned about Johnny Cueto’s innings catching up to him as durability has been an issue since he made it to the big leagues. In August of 2008 and 2009 he spent time on the D.L. due to arm issues, and in 2010 he put up an ERA of 4.34 in the final two months, compared to an ERA of 3.18 for the first four months.

Of course last year Cueto was only able to throw 156 innings, sandwiched between two arm injuries.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 14, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm mostly referring to how he flagged down the stretch in 2010

and the Verducci thing. The Verducci thing is pseudoscience as far as I can tell and I don’t put much stock him as a high-risk pitcher, partly for the reasons you suggest.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 14, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I put no stalk in teh Verducci thing

Mike Leake’s last start was going to be the heart breaker game where his shutout vanished with 2 outs in the 9th.

So they gave him one more start, that last start bumped him into the “red flag zone”.

I really can’t believe one more start, especially a start where a pitcher throws just 91 pitches, really is going to cause him to have problems the following season.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 14, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the league figured out Leake 1.0

But I think he’s also shown the makeup of an adaptive player. I have confidence that he could secure a reasonable career as a #4 innings eater who does all the right things it takes to win ball games – one at a time, of course.

by ben nevis on Feb 14, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Is this a thing?

I hadn’t heard that the league had figured out Leake. What evidence is there of this?

by ams78 on Feb 14, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

What is the difference between Mike Leake and Greg Maddux?

Greg Maddux pitched 71 games in the minors.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 14, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Leake had a better rookie year.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 15, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

You may have a point

But there’s no question Matt Maloney and Tom Glavine are basically the same pitcher.

by Brian B on Feb 15, 2012 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Matt Maloney has a better fastball.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 15, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Was it the extra horizontal 4 inches Maddux got on the corners?

I’ma say it was that

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 16, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

"De Plan! De Plan!"


How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

It's hard for me to look at this

because I’m already stepping in the bucket to avoid being hit by that curveball.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone needs to go to fantasy camp again soon.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

The Reds should sign Mr. Rourke as a LIDR

He can really flash that rich, Corinthian leather.

by poojols on Feb 14, 2012 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Stolen from Mo Egger

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Feb 14, 2012 12:00 PM EST reply actions  

"Love, OJ"

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The real world keeps overtaking satire

I’m fascinated how, in recent times, the lines in Saturday Night Live’s political ‘skits’ that get huge laughs aren’t the ones written by comedy writers – the big laughs happen on lines that are literally transcribed from the real life occurrences that they are supposed to be parodying.

by DevilsAdvocate on Feb 14, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

saw that

watched the whole thing for the first time in a long while and laughed at just about all of it.

speaking of funny, watch the wyatt cenap interview with the peta woman from last night’s daily show. talk about real world overtaking satire. that peta woman was incredibly ridiculous.

by Daedalus on Feb 16, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I saw that, too

Couldn’t sleep last night so I caught the 1am rerun. Wyatt Cenac is the best that show has going for it.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 16, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I think since the New Year The Daily Show and Colbert Report have been on fire

Since 2009, I went from being an everyday watcher to a casual sometimes watcher of those two shows, since the New Year I haven’t missed an episode. The SuperPac really stepped up Colbert’s game and made his stuff more important and relevant.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 16, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

the Underground Museum Center merged with The Museum Center

When is the last time any RR’er has been to either? (not counting Childrens Museum)

Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today

by obc2 on Feb 14, 2012 12:33 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

I was last at the Museum Center a couple of weeks ago, to hear a talk by Kobie Boykins

(Boykins helped design the Mars Rovers).

When you have little kids, you go to the Children’s Museum. When you have older kids, you start going to the rest of the Museum Center.

The gross and net result of it is that people who spent most of their natural lives riding iron bicycles over the rocky roadsteads of this parish get their personalities mixed up with the personalities of their bicycle as a result of the interchanging of the atoms of each of them and you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who are nearly half people and half bicycles…

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

About a year or two ago I went through the Natural History part

This is a sneaky ass move in my opinion. People love Union Terminal. The Freedom Center? Notsomuch. I’m guessing this allows the FC to skim some much needed money off the top of the bucks about to go to UT this fall.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 14, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw Tornado Alley there about a year ago

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Feb 14, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I had to pee after a Reds game last season

so I dipped into the rear entryway of the Freedom Center.

by GrooveLeg on Feb 14, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I used the Museum Center as a train station last year, and I have used their archives several times.

I really like the Museum Center, the History and Natural history museums are really cool. Cincinnati in Motion on the history side is really fucking awesome. Also do not forget the iMax theater.

Plus the building itself is really cool, I hope they can get the tax dollars they need to repair the building, the longer they wait to fix it the more it is going to cost in the long run.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 14, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The Freedom Center is an incredible place.

I often go whenever a new exhibit opens up. Well worth the admission.

by FordhamRam on Feb 14, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

This is uncalled for.

Not everything in this world exists to please you. Just because a place isn’t your cup of tea doesn’t mean others can’t enjoy it and find value in it.

by the finest muffins on Feb 15, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

calm down

i was making a joke about the word admission.

i don’t begrudge anyone for going to the museums. that would be stupid.

by 'tHan on Feb 15, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, sorry about that.

I don’t get the joke, but I realize my reaction was probably overly harsh and came back just now to say so. Multiple phone calls to multiple customer service lines in one morning do not put one in the best mood.

by the finest muffins on Feb 15, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

x

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 15, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a sign of true fandom when my level of excitement from that commercial is due, in order of impact, to:

1) Jay Bruce
2) Kate Upton

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 14, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

her SI swimsuit cover bikini bottom

Should be raffled off.

The winner would never be able to find it in the UPS shipment bubble wrap, however.

Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today

by obc2 on Feb 14, 2012 2:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Also

Darren Rovell called her fat

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Feb 14, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still less convinced Rovell is a real person,

more convinced that he’s a coalescion of internet trolls that’s become sentient.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 14, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Based on that, and the Playboy Mansion thing

He is the real life embodiment of the “2/10, would not bang” meme

The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer

by DerekH91 on Feb 14, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

All right

Every so often, we need a thread that catches some of us up on obvious long lasting memes that we missed out on. I know this is a running joke on here, but I missed how it started. Can we have a FanPost once every quarter where people can catch up? Or wait… maybe that’s a FanShot?

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Feb 14, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I started this one, and it was glorious

Maybe I’ll do a fanpost when I have time

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Feb 14, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Here is a good thread to check out the history of this

It is a good summary of the events

Whoever lives past today and comes home safely will rouse himself each year on this day, show his neighbors his scars, and tell embellished stories of all their great feats of battle.

by brown11b on Feb 14, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That is a good little thread

But the development of the Jim Day as a lover of kids, a wear of lingerer, man’s best friend and an all around dull guys goes back a few years…

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Feb 14, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

It's waiting for you to update it

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 15, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

i tried to update it a couple of years ago

but forgot my password. it wasn’t worth the effort to retrieve it… :)

by Daedalus on Feb 16, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Kosuke goes to the southside for $1 million

Still not sure I’d rather have Ludwick than him, but hey, it’s over now.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 14, 2012 3:16 PM EST reply actions  

I felt the same way

but who knows, maybe Luddy (as Mat Latos affectionately calls him) will find some of that power stroke he lost at Petco

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 14, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I tried this myself yesterday so I'll repose the one put in the other fantasy thread

12 team snake draft and I took the 7 slot since I knew Joey usually goes 6-10 and allowed my picks to be spaced out evenly.
1B – Votto, 2B – Phillips, SS – Alexei Ramirez, 3B – Bonifacio, C – McCann, OF – Bruce, Stubbs, Markakis, Uti – Fielder, Francoeur, SP – Hamels, Latos, Cueto, Fister, McCarthy, Baker, RP – Rivera, Madson, Bench – Rolen, Mesoraco, Carlos Lee, Scutaro, Chapman.
So if you are looking to cheer for your own team and not feel ashamed about hoping your enemies do well go Votto 1st, Bruce 4th, Phillips 5th, Stubbs 8th, Latos 9th, Madson 10th, Cueto 13th. If you want others Reds guys as bench backup they are all pretty much available at the last rounds. Heisey and Cozart seem to get drafted in most every mock so if you feel more optimistic about them than I do you’ll have to target em around rounds 19 or 20. Just make sure to draft your bench for position utility, for me Rolen, Mes, Lee and Scutaro will cover all position eligibility once the Rockies give Scutaro a few games at 2nd. Took Chapman on the crazy chance that he turns in to a good starter.

by Chance23 on Feb 14, 2012 3:33 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions   1 recs

I just watched MLBNetwork's 1995 season highlights

while I am disappointed that Pete Schoureck’s name was not mentioned once, despite coming out of fucking nowhere to lead the Reds to an N.L. Central title, get an All-Star nod, and be the Cy Young Award runner up. GRR. The Reds were hardly talked about at all, Barry Larkin got a brief mention.

But it got me really excited for this season, I am really fucking excited about Mat Latos.

It also got me thinking, well anyone ever see a Randy Johnson, ALDS ace coming out of the bullpen on one day’s rest, performance again?

Imagine if Latos just wipes the floor with opposing hitters this year, but the Reds are in trouble in the late innings of an elimination game, and Dusty brings Latos back on one or two day’s rest. Verducchi would write 9 articles by Presidents day about the 84 red flags around Latos.

"Uh, we're going to win for you tonight...Schottzie."-Chris Sabo

by Yossarian22 on Feb 14, 2012 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Well, Randy Johnson was 31 in 1995 and had been throwing 200+ innings for several years

I could see the Reds running Arroyo out there on 1 day rest in a crucial situation, if Arroyo was a dominant pitcher instead of a giant bag of suck.

The gross and net result of it is that people who spent most of their natural lives riding iron bicycles over the rocky roadsteads of this parish get their personalities mixed up with the personalities of their bicycle as a result of the interchanging of the atoms of each of them and you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who are nearly half people and half bicycles…

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Feb 15, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

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