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Scott Land PAs: What to expect from Scott Rolen

Scott Rolen might someday trace an unjust Hall of Fame snub to his 2005 collision with Dodgers' 1B Hee Sop-Choi - an incident that resulted in a labrum tear and ultimately required surgery. The following season, without the help of even one stem cell, he played 147 games and slashed .296/.369/.518. Rolen's shoulder began nagging him toward the end of 2007, requiring surgery for scar tissue removal. The next season, he injured his finger at the beginning of the season and experienced more shoulder troubles toward the end, but pieced together 108 OPS+ season as a Blue Jay.

He increased his production at the plate and attendance record in each of the next two seasons, appearing in 133 games with the 2010 Reds and helping lead the team to a division championship. Then Rolen went under the knife for his shoulder again late last July, after wearing down late in 2010 and seeming lost at the plate throughout 2011.

Depending on how you count them, Rolen will be mounting his third comeback from a major injury this season. This time he'll be doing it as a 37-year old. Anecdotally and statistically, Rolen is still a very good defender at third. His left shoulder injury doesn't affect his throwing arm and doesn't seem to significantly limit his ability to put his glove in the right place.

Slate called the labrum tear "baseball's most fearsome injury." While it's painful, nagging and career-threatening, most of the sensationalism is about pitchers and their throwing arms. Where I see Rolen's injury mattering most is in his swing and, consequently, his plate approach. He's already altered his batting stance at least once to accommodate his shoulder issue, likely sacrificing some power (though it's hard both to explain 2010 and to figure out how much to chalk up to normal aging). Last season, Rolen didn't have trouble making contact, but he did walk at a lower rate than he ever has while swinging at more balls out of the strike zone.

He only appeared in 65 games in 2011, so I don't know how much to read into his performance. Rolen's plate vision, an attribute that actually improves in many veterans, is likely still there. His walk rate dipped permanently below 10% after 2005, but he's been good for around 9% since then and was at 9.3% in 2010 (after altering his batting stance).

The body just might not be willing. If his bat speed and torque remain diminished, he may compensate by reaching for pitches he ordinarily would have taken for a ball. The extent to which his strength and confidence returns will determine his success this year and ability to avoid a bizarre, Star Wars surgery.

Star-divide

Though he's had a very distinctive career arc, I wondered if there were any comparable players for Rolen: third basemen with long, productive careers who battled through injury and played into their late 30s. Rolen is a very unique player and there aren't very many good comps for third basemen with a long injury history who have also stayed at the position for their entire careers and produced at his level.

Chipper Jones

Chipper Jones, who had knee surgery in 2010 and has struggled to play in more than 130 games since 2005, springs to mind. His ability to play at an elite level at age 37 (in 2009) is encouraging, but he's a much different player from Rolen, hitting for higher average (and reaching base more as a result), more power and getting much less value out of his glove. Jones maintained his high walk rate through the end of his thirties, where Rolen has stayed below 10% in 2006.

Wade Boggs, 1995

Boggs was a legendary "pure hitter," (whatever that means), with prodigious on-base skills, but his overall offensive output was similar to Rolen's over his career (ignoring era slightly). His age 37 season, marked by injury, was his last stand before his decline. Boggs suffered a hamstring injury late into his third season with the Yankees in 1995. That year was arguably his last All-Star caliber season. His bat lost a little pop, his defense likely suffered and he declined to merely average for the next three seasons. Boggs remained valuable at that level, until his final season in Tampa Bay (and baseball).

Rolen isn't going to reach base at an over .400 rate, but setting the floor at league average would be perfectly acceptable.There's reason to believe his defense could float him more than it did Boggs. Defensive metrics still like Scott and helped to lift him above replacement level last season, despite his worst season ever at the plate (269 PAs). Just as Boggs' on-base skills were pretty durable (he reached base at a .377 clip at age 41), Rolen wouldn't have to hit for the power he did in 2010 to have a Late Boggs-ian season at age 37. One last flash of former greatness would be all the Reds require.

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Can't be optimistic

…when it comes to Rolen. Expecting anything over 90 games from him would be foolish in my estimation. But who knows… If he can give the Reds 400 AB with an OPS above league average it would be a huge boost to an already potent offense.

Barry Larkin > Ozzie Smith

by AC Slider on Feb 1, 2012 5:39 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

I'm not ready to commit to him playing any more than 100 games.

With END, Cairo, and Frazier in the fold, I’m not really even sure I’d want a healthy Rolen playing more than that.

I’d love to see a .275/.340/.450 type line from him in about 400 ABs. That’s the top end of my expectations, though.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 5:51 PM EST reply actions  

That's a good top-end estimate

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 1, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

even if he ends up .020 lower on all 3 slashes

he’ll still be above average because of his glove

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Feb 1, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

While practically useless defensive metrics still like him

Have you seen him move laterally lately? He can’t. I know range isn’t the most important attribute at 3rd, but I think everyone is overrating his age 37 defense.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 2, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

Despite his light bat last year he still put up 1.3 war in 65 games, with the help of his defense, that makes him a 3 WAR player in a full season.

WAR and defensive metrics aren’t everything, but stats still like his defense, a lot.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

he was also hobbling last year

Scott Rolen was 1/3 of himself even when he was playing in 1/3 of the games. so, he’s like 1/9 of himself

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't get un-hobbled at 37

Not with all the testing, anyway.

The worst and most likely case is Rolen repeats 2011. Which means being in the lineup and on the field when he should not be.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 2, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno if that's the most likely case

but repeating 2010 is also not the most likely case, and I think 2011 is more likely than 2010

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

I would be thrilled with an OPS approaching 800. I’d take .260/.330/.410 to be honest. As mentioned already, his glove will make him valuable as long as he can hit a little

Barry Larkin > Ozzie Smith

by AC Slider on Feb 1, 2012 6:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I think that's the floor of what would/should make him a "full-time" player.

If after 2 months he’s not doing better than that, I think it’d be time for a full-on platoon with him and END.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

We are of one mind on Rolen

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 1, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I am setting myself up for disapointment

I was looking at END’s stats and noticed he got better at getting on base at every level in the minors except rookie ball to low A ball.

As a Low A ball hitter his OBP was .301.
A+ .303
AA .317
AAA .337

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you look at his batting average each of those levels?

Because it sure ain’t a steadily improving walk rate that’s driving up his OBP:
A – 3.0%
A+ – 2.6%
AA – 3.4%
AAA – 3.8%

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

I wasn’t sure what to make of that.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

.250/.300/.500

This is what END will do. Everything he has done so far points to him putting up this line.

Does anyone think Rolen will even come close to this?

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 2, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

if Rolen is healthy he will probably get on base more.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think END will come particularly close to that

band no to Rolen also, but I give him just as good a shot as END.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

You seem very confident in those numbers

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 2, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Is your picture caption a Zevon reference?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 1, 2012 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

It's gotta be.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Feb 1, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I like Zevon a lot and that might be my favorite by him.

There’s probably a better way to make that pun relevant to the Reds/Rolen. I hope Rolen has a public feud with Arroyo while on the DL so I can use: “Rolen, the Med-List Bronson Shunner.”

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 2, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Has anyone watched Clubhouse Confidential

on MLB Network? The show is pretty good, but the camera is constantly moving around while the host is talking. I always think they are going to commercial when they zoom out, then they zoom back in and the show continues. It’s blowing my fucking mind!

Rolen is Dunn.

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Feb 1, 2012 7:55 PM EST reply actions  

I haven't a clue

On the one hand, I’m hopeful that he’ll be the Rolen of 2009 again, now that his shoulder’s been roto-rootered.

On the other hand, the odds aren’t good, even for position players.

Maybe it’s reasonable to expect a 37-year-old to decline anyway, healthy or not.

But…there’s the example of Jorge Posada. He had a repeat shoulder surgery his age 36 year (which was injury-shortened, as Rolen’s was last year). And he came back the next season to have one of his best years ever.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 1, 2012 8:11 PM EST reply actions  

It's easy to dismiss out of hand the 'heart' and 'pride' of a great lion-in winter veteran like Rolen.

But that’s what I’m going with in this case.

He’s a pro.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 2, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I would say that is Brandon Phillips and Bronson Arroyo

Rolen hasn’t played when he is hurt. Both Phillips and Arroyo have stayed on the roster even through injuries/illnesses that should have put them on the DL. They played even though their performances were hurting the team.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

You can certainly make cases for both of them, especially Arroyo.

Phillips didn’t need to go on the DL, but he should have been moved down in the order. That’s Dusty’s fault. So’s Arroyo. So will be Rolen.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 2, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

When Phillps had that broken finger, or maybe it was a hurt elbow, he should have been put on the DL.

He spent en entire month hitting like .150. There is no spot in the order that should have protected him. He should have been put on the DL.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 3, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

The bronson Arroyo story

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

100 games catching

9 games DHing
2 games 1B

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

wow!

that’s pretty amazing to me

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Jorgie only DH'd his last year

2011.

But notice he only played 100 games at catcher in 2009, the WS year. For most of his career, he played about 140 games a year at catcher.

I think that’s key for an older player. They need more rest. The 130 games Rolen played in 2010 was too much. He was dragging the second half. Dusty should aim for about 100 games for Rolen this year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree, and I think the Posada comp is interesting

Players generally decline in their late 30s but it’s not as if regression is geometric. It’s not unreasonable to think that a guy coming off of corrective surgery can improve upon an unfortunate half-season.

by ken on Feb 3, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I share your Rolen optimism

but it’s not just his ‘11 season that bothers me, it’s also the 2nd half of ‘10. In August and September, the stretch run to the pennant, he only hit .251/.325/.374. I can get behind the idea that he was wearing down, and I think it’s a reasonable assumption to make, but still…

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 3, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

A fair point

His late ‘10 power slump was even more pronounced than last year’s. But unlike last year he still got on base at an acceptable rate (he slashed .251/.325/.374 in August/September) because he drew some walks and had a normal BABIP (.299 during the same period). A regression to his BABIP mean, more rest, and a small power boost from the surgery should give him a decent slash line this year, imo.

by ken on Feb 3, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I think END gets more time at 3B than anyone else this year

We’re 2 1/2 weeks from pitchers and catchers reporting! I’m really excited about this right now.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Feb 1, 2012 8:30 PM EST reply actions  

we all are

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 1, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Stand back and give strangely intense man-child some room, will ya?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 2, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I've always loved this gif

work it, lil monster

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the third time in three days that I've got sucked into watching this

over and over and over and over and over again.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 4, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, Mads

Even if he does retire, it’s END. Not Todd.

by poojols on Feb 1, 2012 9:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

at Least Fiasco will be able to play

more than 3 games in a row. and he has way more power

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Feb 1, 2012 10:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

at Least Fiasco will be able to play

more than 3 games in a row. and he has way more power

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Feb 1, 2012 10:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

than we could sign Jackson!

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

spring training

has already begun in Japan.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 1, 2012 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

The eyeball test says that Rolen is a shell

of his old 3rd base capabilities. His range is creaky. But, I’d still take him over most (END…etc). OTOH, he cannot hit for power anymore, but his plate approach is still outstanding. Overall, I think I have no idea what to expect aside from injury.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Feb 1, 2012 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

I just wish Dusty would treat him as what he is.

Meaning bat him 2nd or 6/7th about 3-4 times a week, generally against LHP or “veteran” pitchers he’s had success against, and let END play the rest.

I’m finally willing to bet Dusty plays him less than he has in the past, but I still bet he bats him cleanup.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone at Fangraphs said that Hanigan would be a good #2 hitter and I think it's true.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Feb 1, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Dusty

thinks he only has a good OBP because he hits in front of the pitcher.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 1, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

And Dusty is like that Aunt we all love.

Sweet and great with a joke and makes good dressing at Thanksgiving, but sends money to Benny Hinn.

Wear something sexy to my funeral.

by Pops Daniels on Feb 1, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that Dusty even looks at OBP amazes me.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

interesting,

I bet him and Hanigan are going to ahve about the same games played and about the same OPS at the end of the year. I could see them both in the 350-400 PAs and with a 780-810 OPS, just Ryan with more OBP and Rolen with more SLG

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It's February, and damnit, that means it's close enough to Spring Training for me to do this with sincerity!

“Everyday” Lineup:

BP 2B
Rolen 3B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Mesoraco C
Heisey LF
Stubbs CF
Cozart SS
P

Wow, that felt good.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

and close enough for me to argue with it!

If Ludwick is in left, its:

BP
Ludwick
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Stubbs
Meso
Cozart
P

With Heisey/Frazier in left, I think either of them or Cozart (or even Stubbs) will be #2 until some pecking order gets settled down. And Bruce will be batting ahead of Rolen by July.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yikes, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather have Rolen 2 and Ludwick cleanup.

I trust Rolen’s 2011 OBP as more of an anomaly than Ludwick’s.

And let the record state that this is not an endorsement of Ludwick at 4, since I’d rather have Bruce, Mesoraco, BP, or Heisey there than him.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Ludwick's always had decent OBP

I’d rather have Rolen at 4 and use the #2 as a rotating place for whoever is sucking least, I think.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

career .332 and not above .330 in 3 years is decent?

I just think Rolen’s much more likely to get back to a .350 OBP (just with a lot less SLG), and I’d rather have that on base in front of Votto.

I think Ludwick will see a GASP induced SLG increase, and I could deal with that at cleanup (though I still think Heisey will be better), but I’m not sold on him getting on base more than Scotty Baseball.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

compared to Heisey and Frazier? Yes.

I can see where you’re coming from. I just disagree. Anyway, it’ll be either LF or 3b unless Cozart can hit consistently, because you’re not going to sit Mesonigan’s bricks or waste Stubbs’ speed there.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I hear ya.

Time for the “I know I don’t like it, but this is what Dusty’s gonna do” lineup:

BP 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Ludwick LF
Stubbs CF
Mesoranigans C
P

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

that looks

pretty accurate.

At least for when it’s Rolen instead of END.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 1, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't have much against htat, honestly.

If Cozart isn’t hitting, then he’ll be moved down. If he is hitting, he’ll be moved up. That’s ok.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey Cy, you ever have any Boulevard beers?

I just brought back a bottle of their Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale from Indy this weekend and it’s out of this world good. Any suggestions on other stuff from them?

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 1, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Tank 7 is head and shoulders above anythign else

The Bully Porter is pretty good, the wheat is ok, and the single-wide IPA is acceptable. Everything else is pretty bland, I’ve never been too impressed.

Oh, and one of you (all of you?) recommended the Sierra Nevada Celebration, of which I had my first tonight. So thank you.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Celebration's legit. I love that beer.

This is my soup for tonight!

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

God bless Odell.

Upslope’s real good too, if you can scope ’em out.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Upslope, Left Hand, Boulder Beer, New Belgium, blah blah puke puke drunk pass out...

Yeah, it’s definitely spoiled beer country out here!

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm rockin this. Gotta stay local, after all

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Alan brought it up and I seconded it.

I have always wanted to try Boulevard’s Saison Brett, but have never seen it anywhere.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

me neither, if it makes you feel better.

they just have so many mediocre beers that if I’m skeptical, and if I’m going to go for a saison, I’ll go for one I trust (that said, I got burned by a Odell Woodcut series in December)

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you guys get New Belgium there?

If so check out the Allagash collab they did called Vrienden (if you haven’t yet). It’s part of their Lips of Faith series, and it’s fantastic.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 1, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Haven't found it, but I'll be on the lookout.

I went to the beer store today to pick up Bell’s Oarsman, one of my all-time favorites. I’ll snoop around the usual suspects for Vrienden.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 1, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It looks like this

Also, Oarsman is super underrated.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 1, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Celebration

look forward to it every year

by pack_fan on Feb 2, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I like Hanigan because of the OBP and good contact. Of course, he's also a GIDP threat so that's a drawback.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Feb 1, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Too slow...too many DPs if Bp is on 1st.

Cozart is da man.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Feb 2, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Dusty didn't play him that much last year

the plan was to give him 2 days off a week.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Low BABIP and an abnormally low BB%.

I don’t know if that’s just bad luck or if it’s a clear sign of an over the hill, injured, “lost it” kind of player.

I hope you’re correct though, Mr. lower case Ken.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 1, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Rolen took some pretty weak, desperate swings last season

But I think he’s a strong enough dude that corrective surgery can bail him out one more time.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 2, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, HE CAN'T RUN

That is why his BABIP was so low. That’s what happens to old, broken down players.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 2, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Overstatement

He’s not fast but he runs well enough. He wasn’t nursing any leg injuries last year that I can recall.

A .242 BABIP is terrible luck for a guy who’s been around .300 for most of his career and still hits the ball with some authority (even if he’s a little slow). And bear in mind that we’re talking about just a half-season’s worth of PAs.

by ken on Feb 3, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

If he continues making contact on everything

that’s not actually a good thing – bad BABIPs and DPs

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

x

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Back in late August Rolen was talking like he'd be back on the field in September.

I read on a fantasy blog that the doctors told him he could take BP, so he must have had SOME range of motion and strength then.

It behooved him to do one of those “I-tried-a-new-training-regimen-that-has-put-me-in-the-best-shape-of-my-life” things…hopefully he’s done that.

by GrooveLeg on Feb 2, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm optimistic about the surgery helping

The talk was that the shoulder injury was basically preventing him from catching up to fastballs. I don’t expect him to be all-star level, but I think he’ll be good. I think something like .270/.350/.420 would be fine. It’ll be better than what any of the other 3B options will do.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

he was all-star level last year...

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

huh?

no, Slyde means based on performance. Sorry about the confusion!

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

no I know, I was joking because he made the all-star team last year

with abysmal stats. He was the starter!!

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

but your joke just woulda been funnier if you said he was an All-Star last year, rather than all-star level. Please take this joke and sarcasm critique in the spirit in which it was intended. You’ve got a bright future, big guy!

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't pretty much every 3b injured/awful going into the break?

It was either Rolen or Ryan Roberts and fuck that guy.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

and Wright.

Who I still weirdly think of as overrated until I look at his stats and am like “no sir, you are quite talented.”

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

And

Aramis Ramirez was seriously screwed. But he was a cub. So f that guy.

by cincywest on Feb 2, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Aramis was seriously sucking at that point

probably as bad as Rolen at the ASB

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 3, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I am optimistic

but not necessarily for Rolen. I think the Reds will have above average 3B production with Rolen, Frazier, Francisco, and Cairo in the fold.

So if Rolen can put up a 2010 repeat, awesome, if it is more like 2011, somebody else will probably pick up the slack.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

It's Rolen's contract year

He’ll have a good year, and trick Reds management into an Arroyo-type contract. History repeats.

Respect my authoritah!

by BigBadBruce on Feb 2, 2012 1:11 AM EST reply actions  

ack

No. I don’t think they’ll re-sign him. He’ll be 38 next year. I think even Walt knows that’s too old to be a starter. And definitely too old to get a multiyear contract.

Not sure what will happen if END crashes and burns, but it won’t be Rolen getting an Arroyo deal.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, if END crashes and burns...what could the Reds possibly do??

Trade or FA I guess…

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Play Frazier.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Oooohhhhh! Yeeeeeeeeah...

or that.

Except that the Reds seem intent upon not doing that.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

If END fails they won't have much choice.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

If END fails, Dusty will probably go to Cairo mainly

and then the Reds will get a 3B in the offseason.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think so.

I think he’ll still use Cairo as a super sub. The guy is old, and Dusty won’t play him everyday. I think you would see Frazier at 3B 50% of the time.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I dunno

When both Rolen and END were out last season, Cairo took a good many of the starts at 3B, IIRC. Even as Frazier was available, and Yonder was experimenting, he went with the vet.

I could be misremembering, though.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Frazier received a decent amount of starts.

Cairo was also playing pretty well at the time.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Frazier got a lot of the starts

as the season became more and more lost

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Francisco got most of the starts in Sept.

Frazier had one more start than Cairo at 3B after 8/29 (selective end point!). END had 6 more than both of them combined.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

stupid facts

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

Or Cozart to 3B, Didi to SS?

Assuming Cozart doesn’t crash and burn, too.

And assuming Didi learns to hit. But the scouts think his ceiling is higher than Cozart’s, so they must see something they like in him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I think his ceiling is higher because of his defense and good contact skills.

His power and plate discipline are lacking.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

If a player lacks both power and plate discipline

I think his ceiling is quite low. Utility infielder upside. Scouts seem to think he will develop power or something, but I don’t see it.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Cozart's plate discipline is rather underwhelming, too

And Didi is only 21, so I could see him developing some power.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Cozart already has the power and has shown a much better bat

and also has the defense

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Didi's defense is supposed to be better than Cozart's

And it’s probably still improving, while Cozart’s on the wrong side of the defense curve.

Cozart does have more power, but he’ll be 27 this year. When he was Didi’s age, he was batting .239 / .288 / .332 in Dayton.

Not saying that I think Didi’s a better player now. Just that there might be reason to think his ceiling is higher than Cozart’s.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

fair points, BF

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that will hinder a SS.

He puts the bat on the ball and plays good defense. Plate Discipline and power is something that could still develop.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

He’s a toolsy guy, and one of his tools is power. It hasn’t showed up in the games yet, but it seems that it’s possible. He’s not like Janish, who never had the tools to hit for power.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Didi probably has a hot gf=supreme confidence in himself

That’s kind of a light hitting duo. Even considering the decline in the 3B position, Cozart’s value as a third baseman is pretty low. It’d probably be better just to trade him (assuming he doesn’t go up in flames like you said).

by cincywest on Feb 2, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting (lips not moving and with a lisp)...

however, i make no prognostications with rolen. no speculations. i do have to like his chances of being a solid contributor this year because he’s got the true pro’s angle on the game.

by alcory11 on Feb 2, 2012 6:32 AM EST reply actions  

I don't get it
  1. Why all of the Rolen pessimism? The guy’s been a great player in the past, and was hurt last year. Also, as pointed out, his defense is still somewhere between better than average and very good.
  2. Why all of the off-the-chart END love? According to bbref, the guy’s been replacement-level so far in his major league career, and his hitting approach (swing as hard as possible at every pitch and hope something good happens) isn’t a recipe for success (nor a sudden improvement in hitting stats). Defensively, he isn’t quite as bad as Encarnacion.
  3. Why so little love for Frazier? I’m more confident that he’ll improve at the plate (last year he was just as good), and he’s better (and more versitle) than END defensively.

I get that Rolen probably isn’t a 600 PA player anymore, but he has exactly 1 season of >400 PA and <.780 OPS (108 OPS+). If he can get 500 PA, I don’t see any reason he can’t still be a very good hitter, which combined with good-very good defense makes him a much better choice than END.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Feb 2, 2012 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

We'd all love to see Rolen flip father time the bird

It’s just unrealistic. He had a pretty bad last couple months in 2010, and it continued into 2011. I hope the decline was 100% injury-related, but it wouldn’t be like his decline was unexpected. 37 year old players are supposed to rapidly decline. It was his early 2010 success that was a surprise imo.

Agree with you on END versus Frazier.

by cincywest on Feb 2, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

There's a big difference

…between ignoring aging and thinking when a player hits X age he’s suddenly toast, especially with today’s training and medical advances. There are quite a few players playing well past where they would have had to retire in the past – the big difference between Chipper Jones and Wade Boggs might be that Boggs was hurt in ’95 and Jones in ’10.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Feb 2, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Rolen is 37

I think people are right to be a little pessimistic.

As for END, I think people are being optimistic because we know he’s going to be getting a lot of playing time, so we’re trying to look on the bright side.

Frazier is likely to start the season in Louisville. There’s just no room for him on the roster. He’s more versatile than END, but END’s job isn’t to be a versatile utility guy. His job is to be the other third baseman, because even at best, Rolen can’t play every day.

Also, I’m not convinced Frazier is better at 3B than END.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

OK.

There’s a big difference between “a little pessimistic” and “The best thing would be for Rolen to retire as no one will take him in a trade” or “I’m hoping Rolen steps aside and lets the young, powerful RBI machine assume his rightful place as our 3B in the starting lineup”.

I see nothing in END’s game that makes me think he’ll ever be anything, certainly not on a good team. When healty, Rolen is likely to add significant value, even in a limited role.

Also, Spring Training is about to start (yea!). As anonymous fans on an internet board, why wouldn’t we hope that both Frazier and END get long looks as back-ups, especially considering END puts a big crimp on the 25 man roster? And while you’re not convinced Frazier is better, even if he’s just as good shouldn’t his versatility give him the job (he could get extra starts at other positions when END would be forced to just sit)?

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Feb 2, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I think END's lefty bat

gives him a leg-up, at least in Dusty’s mind.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

END is the 3rd lefty bat and he has no options

He’ll break camp with the team, even if he blows in spring training. Unless of course he’s a total dick and they decide not to tolerate him anymore.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

END is out of options

He’s making the roster, no matter what Frazier does.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 2, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

common

He’s 37, he’s not old.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Feb 2, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Which, is/was stupid.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Rolen was a Cardinal I always liked.

The guy hated LaRussa. What’s not to like?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

END had one of the best defensive plays I've ever seen, and a 500+ HR the next day.

That’ll stick in many folks’ minds. But yeah, I’m not convinced he’ll be above average. I am very curious to see if he will, though.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Reminds me

of one Saturday night game against the Padres when Wily Mo socked a pair of homers and made a really nice catch at the wall in CF. That certainly stuck in my mind.

To be clear, I think END has a better chance than Wily Mo did, but it’s definitely an interesting parallel.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm curious

what part of END’s game makes you think he’s more likely to stick than Wily Mo?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

he bats LH, for one.

So I think that gives him just a quantity advantage of being able to face RHP.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 2, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He does have a slightly lower K-rate (better contact?)

and slightly more power at the same age. But yeah, I’m not sure there’s any reason to definitely choose one of the other.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m hoping Rolen steps aside....

….and lets the young, powerful RBI machine assume his rightful place as our 3B in the starting lineup.

Yes, I realize such words make me anathama on this site :-(

I hate it when Ephram uses data & facts to refute my unfounded opinions....No chocolate chip cookies for him!!!

by ephram on Feb 2, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

there have been a lot of funny funnies on this site lately

but this one is my favorite of the week.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 2, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Tis a good one

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, yes....you're truly oppressed

There are quite a few of us that flat out don’t like Francisco and a host of others who don’t know what to make of him. My thought is that if Francisco plays 70 games for the Reds this year, the Reds will not make the playoffs. They need Rolen in the lineup, he actually knows what he’s doing at the plate.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 2, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

two chances in one thread?

Come see the violence inherent in the system!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Feb 2, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Gracias

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I am in the don't know what to make of him

although that is probably due to rose colored glasses, but for some reason I have this weird feeling in my gut, he could be one of those guys who OPS’s over 800 despite an OBP under .330.

Please do not make me defend this argument because I can’t.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

There are a handful of people who think that way, you're not alone

As long as he continues to OPS 1.545 against the Cardinals like he did last year, I will not complain. :)

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If anything else, he is a lottery ticket that was already paid for

might as well see if we won anything before we throw him away.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think Tony Armas is his ceiling

Armas never had an OBP over .311, but he OPS’d over .800 three different times. During his peak, he hit .254/.289/.485, which was an OPS+ of 111 back then (1980-85). It’s not that far off what it would be in today’s numbers either. BBRef converts that to .260/.294/.493 in 2011’s GABP environment. I’d say that’s a good guess for END’s peak.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent comp

thank you Slyde

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm already anathama for voicing a frustration last month with trading away Torreyes

so if anything, favoring Juan Francisco over Scott Rolen just cements it…

I hate it when Ephram uses data & facts to refute my unfounded opinions....No chocolate chip cookies for him!!!

by ephram on Feb 2, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Anathema? I had to google it because I did not know what it meant

This came up:

"/>

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Feb 2, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

So.... anathema = overrated?

stupid?

dumb?

craptastic?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You can't just BE anathema, can you?

Don’t you have to be anathema to something?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 2, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no clue.

I think ephram used it as a noun.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 2, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

According to Google:

a·nath·e·ma /əˈnaTHəmə/
Noun:

1) Something or someone that one vehemently dislikes.
2) A formal curse by a pope or a council of the Church, excommunicating a person or denouncing a doctrine.

Synonyms:
curse – malediction – imprecation – malison – ban

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Feb 2, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I got your male diction right here, pal

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 2, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that's just a short vowel.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 2, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yo mama said it was a long vowel, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 2, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

i was using it in the ecclesial sense

so how a heretic is declared anathama to the church because they hold views that are contrary to official church doctrine…..

…..i’m similarly somewhat anathama to the RedReporter group because i hold views (Juan Francisco > Rolen, trade away Torreyes = bad) that are contradictory to the official doctrine of the majority at RedReporter

I hate it when Ephram uses data & facts to refute my unfounded opinions....No chocolate chip cookies for him!!!

by ephram on Feb 2, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Pope Weez excommunicates you

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I knew RR had a lot of grad students

but I did know any of them were doctrine now. I thought most of them just got a masters or something. If you’re doctrine, please let me know, I have a rash that I’d like to send you some pictures of.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

wrong kind

Grad students end up with PhDs.

Physicians do no independent research. Thus, they are called “Doctor” by courtesy only.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Feb 2, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

They are called doctor because they are one

at least that’s what I always assumed.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

They hold a doctor of medicine.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

And mor epeople agree with him than he thinks

or at least don’t think he’s that far off anyway

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

are we all epeople?

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, the personas we present on RR are all epeople, yeah

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 2, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I think people are split between Rolen, Frazier, and END

about 60-10-30 about now. Which is probably also how their PAs will settle out.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Well said

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Feb 2, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, disliked vehemently

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

So I'm toying with the idea of going to med school

I studied film in college. Any doctors here wanna shed some light?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 2, 2012 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

I'm no doctor

but I did get a liberal arts degree, so I’m qualified to talk to about everything.

I know a goodly number of folks go to med school with a liberal arts background. The critical thinking and problem solving skills translate pretty well.

A good friend of mine from high school started his residency about a year ago, which means he’s pretty much a rookie doc. And he’s 28. So if you really want to do it, you gotta be prepared to not settle down into your career until you are well into your 30s. Oh, and the debt.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

my wife went to med school with a liberal arts degree

though her BA is in chemistry.

Having been married to a medical student, don’t decide to do it on whim (not that you would). Even beyond what Chuck said, it can destroy any life you have for several years. If you aren’t fully committed to the idea, you probably don’t want to do it.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Feb 2, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly.

Oh, and do you like blood? How about puke? Poo, perhaps? Snot, puss, or spit?

There’s apparently lots of that. Lots.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 2, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Like blood?

I LOVE it.

-John Wayne Gacy.

by cincywest on Feb 2, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say it's more like bile than snot

but puss is it’s own awful thing. Peter Jackson used it quite effectively in Dead Alive, a classic.

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 3, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Pus is its own awful thing. Puss is something completely different, kids.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 3, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

That reminds me of what one of my profs told me just before I graduated undergrad

His degree was an MDiv, and I floated the idea of going to divinity school myself. Harvard, Yale, Duke, and scads of other terrific institutions have top-notch divinity programs and not enough bodies to fill them. This sounded like a not-totally-horrible idea to me, but then he looked at me and said, “You can’t really do it if it’s something you want to do or because it sounds interesting. You can really only do it if you can’t imagine yourself doing anything else.”

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 2, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

This

And it applies to any post-graduate education, except a masters.

If you want bang for the buck, get a masters.

If you can’t not do something else, then by all means, go do it!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Feb 2, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I'm in law school because I didn't have the guts to do anything else at that point.

I like Scrabbles’ prof’s take.

One of my bff’s is training to become a Physician’s Assistant. It sounds like a pretty sweet deal; a lot less school than a Ph.D. and a lot more opportunity than EMT. It’s basically a community doctor of sorts. I dunno. It’s a thing.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what my sister is trying to do.

Unfortunately she might have to go to school in Idaho to get her degree.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Feb 2, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Idaho's all gravy though.

Well, some of it is biscuits and gravy, but you get my point.

Boise’s the tits!

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 3, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

May is one of the best months to be out here.

The weather should be perfect.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Feb 3, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I have a cousin that lives out there. He loves it.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 3, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Become an assasin.

Take care of it.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 3, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

To be honest

He really is amazing. He’s better looking than me, he’s more talented than me, he’s more charming than me. I can’t blame her. I have a little thing for the fella, too.

It’s best if he stays a few thousand miles away. It’s best for everyone.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 3, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

You're probably selling yourself short.

No homo.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Feb 3, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Sigh

I wish.

It’s totally cool, though. He’s way out of her league. Mine, too.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 3, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

don't you talk about Mrs. Scrabbles like that

she is a wonderful lady

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 3, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah

I’m not saying she isn’t a wonderful lady. I did marry her and all.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 3, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

nice save

but watch yourself.

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 3, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

or ask a huge favor from ken.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 3, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Red Reporter: What Else Was I Supposed to Do?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Feb 3, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

x

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Feb 3, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

in undergrad I took a history class from somebody with a JD and Ph.D.

On the first day of class he always asks people what they want to do with their major. One student was pre-law, and he asked her why, and she said she wanted to make the world a better place. He laughed for a good minute and a half or two minutes.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 3, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Kinda harsh actually.

It’s one thing for me to say that my dream was stupid and naive, but a to have a professor do that to a student is rough. Lots of attorneys do good work.

Is pre-law a major? What do you do for four years?

by andromache on Feb 4, 2012 3:19 AM EST up reply actions  

It wasn't a major parse

but it was a designation. We were a small University with a Law School as well, so if you choose to be Pre-Law you would major in something like history, political science, criminal justice, or something related, and that JD/Ph.D would serve as your adviser. Actually it wasn’t all that harsh if you were there (you could tell it was an over the top reaction), he is actually a pretty good guy, and actually really takes care of his students, more than anyone else in the department.

I think if you were pre-law it put you on the inside track to get into the Law School, and if you earned a certain GPA and got a certain LSAT score you were automatically admitted to the Law School.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 4, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that's true.

But I’m not a law school admissions counselor, so who knows. I think if you get a certain GPA and a certain LSAT score, you’re in, depending on the institution. I don’t think schools lower those numbers for pre-law or for criminal justice majors, so sure.

(It could definitely be different in person, I’ll take your word for it).

by andromache on Feb 4, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

At my school they did
Ohio Northern prelaw students are given preferential admission who (1) complete their undergraduate degree with at least a 3.4/4.0 overall grade point average; (2) who score at least in the 75th percentile on the Law School Admissions Test (LSAT); (3) pass the character and fitness review by the Admissions Committee of the College of Law; and (4) pursuant the ABA Admissions Standard 501, are deemed by the law school Admissions Committee to appear capable of satisfactorily completing its program and being admitted to the bar.

link

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 4, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That must be a special early/join admission program.

My aforementioned former roommate was in a program like that, an agreement between UD and UC that she applied for as a senior in high school. If she kept up her grades and got some minimum on the MCAT, she was automatically admitted. I think a few other Ohio schools had the same agreement with the UC med school.

by the finest muffins on Feb 5, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

By going to law school?

I am so confused

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 3, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course you were!

I was going to win a Nobel peace price for my work unifying US-Hispanic relations, especially regarding immigration! And get paid as well.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 4, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I entertained those thoughts at one time

that’s kinda what college is like for the intellectually-inclined (for lack of a better phrase). Even though, you do realize somewhere in your mind that it isn’t realistic at all.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 4, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what my wife finished

she’s been looking for a job for 8 months now

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 3, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

life is shit for entry levels.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 3, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

God you don't need to tell me

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 3, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

my uncle graduated law school & was unable to find a job immediately

he managed an HH Gregg for 2 years before he got hired as a public defender.

hh gregg paid a lot more.

by 'tHan on Feb 4, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

become a pharmacist and move to Alaska, dude.

them folks become millionaires.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 2, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

my experience at a school with a large pharmacy program

is pharmacists are people who are good at science and don’t want the med school experience.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I knew an English major my freshman year who planned to go to med school

he figured he would learn how to write really good application essays. He is in his final year of law school now.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a doctor, but I've lived with two med students.

It’s a long, difficult, but especially LONG process toward doctorhood. You basically give your life away for 8 years.

by the finest muffins on Feb 2, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I see now that everyone else already made that point.

So here’s some added value: my best friend who’s a doctor studied biology in undergrad, which is not unusual. But she told me that, as long as they’ve done their pre-reqs in the sciences, those who majored in something besides pre-med, biology, chemistry, etc., have a bit of an advantage in admissions. Schools want to admit a broad range of majors. My other friend who’s a doctor now was a theology undergrad.

by the finest muffins on Feb 2, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

On that note

I knew somebody in Chicago who wanted to be a vet, but her undergrad degree was in history or English or something useless like that. She was in a program at Northwestern (don’t ask me what it is called) where she and others who wanted to go veterinary school, med School, pharmacy school, nursing school, etc took advanced science classes to help them build their credentials.

Also FWIW, I think if you really want to and you are qualified there is a place for you. My G.P. was born and raised in America, and went to med school in Mexico.

I also met a neurologist last year who worked in advertising before he decided he hated his soul-sucking meaningless job, and went to med school.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 2, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

it would be cooler if it went the other way.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 3, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Being a Doc is over rated

Look into becoming a PA (physician’s assistant) 2 yr. program, much less debt, can diagnose, medicate and poke/stick patients just like a real Doc. (one just has to be working in concert with a real Doc.)

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Feb 4, 2012 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

After 18 months under a "real" doc

you can then work independently with your own patients. You just can’t do any surgery, is basically the only difference.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Feb 4, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

you mentioned your daughters are sciencey

did they consider med school?

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 4, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

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