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Red Reposter - Oswalt that ends Walt

"200 million loonies, eh?  Well, all right."

Sheldon wonders what the Prince Fielder deal means for Joey Votto
His conclusion is "not much". He's right, in that we all knew Votto was going to command a princely ransom in two years long before the news of Fielder's deal. I think the news is still a bit of cold water on the face of Reds fans though, as the actually dollars and cents of keeping him here in Cincy have come into a sharper focus.

Votto is one of the elite 1Bs in baseball, right up there with Prince, Albert Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, Mark Teixeira, and Miguel Cabrera. All of these guys are making something between $20 mil and $25 mil per year over seven to ten year deals. Votto will be 30 when he hits free agency, so he's not likely to get a nine or ten year deal like Prince (who's 28) and Albert (who's a demi-god), but Tex's eight years and $180 mil seems a very realistic possibility for our guy. That's not strictly-speaking impossible for the Reds to pull off, but yeah, it's kind of unlikely. But who cares about that. They're gonna win two World Series before then and make everything totally cool.

Blog Red Machine weighs in on the Roy Oswalt rumors
and makes the case that the Reds would be better off with Homer Bailey than Roy Oswalt. Problem is, he did a poor job of making that case. Mostly because that case isn't really there to be made. His basic argument is that RoyO's ground ball rate is down the past few years, and that he will cost more money than Homer.

I think some of us are forgetting just how great RoyO's been over his career. He boasts a career FIP of 3.35. His career ERA+ is 133. Though his strikeout rate and groundball rate are down from his prime years, he's still as stingy as ever with the walks. As for the injury concern, it's certainly legitimate. A pitcher with a bad back is always going to give me pause. But last year was the first year since '03 that he missed significant time. He's been remarkably healthy his entire career. And he's only going to be 34 next season. That's no spring chicken, but I'm pretty sure there is still some left in his tank.

It's all probably moot, as the Reds don't really have the cash to give Oswalt. So this conversation is almost entirely hypothetical. But make no mistake about it: Roy Oswalt would easily be the 3rd best starter on this team if he were signed tomorrow. He is better than Homer Bailey. He is better than Mike Leake. Hell, I even made a bet yesterday that his '12 season will be better than Johnny Cueto's. I realize that's something of a reach, but jeez louise. This guy has been one the best and most durable starting pitchers of the last decade. It should go without saying that the Reds would be extremely fortunate to have him.

Coco to go-go to To-To
Francisco Cordero signed a one year deal with the Blue Jays for $4.5 mil. He'll serve as the set-up man to their newly-acquired closer Sergio Santos. If reports from earlier in the winter are correct, Coco turned down a two-year deal from the Reds worth something like $12-14 mil. That was most definitely a mistake. Instead, the Reds got a superior pitcher in Ryan Madson for half the cost. Also, the Reds will receive a comp draft pick this coming June. Put another tick on the chalk board for ol' Walt.

Star-divide

Blog Red Machine lists the keys to success for the Reds in 2012
Included on the list are Mat Latos ascension to the top of the rotation, Aroldis Chapman's development, Jay Bruce smoothing out his slumps, and the development of young position players like Devin Mesoraco and Zack Cozart.

David Bell, new manager of the AAA Louisville Bats
spoke with The Fay about two of the prospects he'll have in his lineup this season.

On Neftali Soto: "He had a big year in a lot of ways. You see the offensive numbers with the home run total. It’s really impressive because he missed a substantial part of the year. But he really improved defensively at first base. I think part of that is because he moved around in the past. He played third and caught, which will help him in the long run. But this year he settled at first. He really improved. He’s capable of playing first in the majors right now."

On Denis Phipps: "I’ve had him for parts of three years. He really struggled. But he kept at it and it just finally clicked. It was fun to watch. That’s what the minor leagues are about. He can do everything. I think if he continues to build on what he did last year, you’ll see him in the major league sooner than later."

Three truths and a lie: Ryan Ludwick
In 2009, Hardball Times rated Ludwick No.9 all time among a very rare group of major leaguers: position players who bat right-handed and throw left-handed. No.1 on the list: Hall of Fame outfielder Rickey Henderson.

Ludwick attended Durango High School in Las Vegas, alma mater of NASCAR brothers Kurt and Kyle Busch. Ludwick and Kurt Busch were classmates, and Ludwick went to the NASCAR race at Phoenix International Raceway last year.

Ludwick is known around baseball as the life of the party, most notably for his impressive abilities in magic and illusion. He once made Troy Glaus disappear in his famous "Chamber of Infinity" trick. Glaus was not heard from for four days and when he reappeared, his chronically injured shoulder was fully healed. Unfortunately for Glaus, he re-injured it a few weeks later attempting to pop a wheelie on his four-wheeler.

Ludwick’s at-bat music in St. Louis, San Diego and Pittsburgh was the Beastie Boys’ "Brass Monkey."

Redleg Nation points out that Wily Mo Pena recently turned 30
Remember when he was 22 and hit 26 home runs?

Jonathan Mayo at MiLB.com has been running his prospect lists by position
and the Reds are well-represented at catcher. Though they traded Yasmani Grandal, #6 on the list, they are pinning their hopes on #2 on the list, Devin Mesoraco. Here's the blurb:

"Ramon Hernandez is gone. The prospect who might have pushed him, Yasmani Grandal, was dealt to San Diego. It's clear the Reds believe Mesoraco is the future behind the plate in Cincinnati. His game has come together over the past two years and he made his big league debut last September. Mesoraco has good power at the plate and a good approach that should allow him to hit for average as well. A plus arm has led to some high caught-stealing rates in the Minors, and he's a natural leader behind the plate. Even if Mesoraco shares time with Ryan Hanigan at first, the job should be his for a long time."

A Super Bowl viewing guide for people who don't want to watch the Super Bowl
Are you like me and have grown tired of the NFL? Does watching football only remind you of how much it is not baseball? Good news! Since the Patriots-Giants Super Bowl is going to be so stupid and dumb, Jon Bois has taken it upon himself to list the best alternative viewing for that particular evening.

Comment 115 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I'm dissappointed there still isn't a ".fart" domain

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 25, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Reds get Oswalt, he doesn't have to throw 200 or make 30 starts to be useful

if he can make about 20 regular season starts, and be healthy enough to pitch in the playoffs, that is enough. Really, being available to pitch in the post season is key, he Latos, and Cueto could be a nice three headed pitching monster.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 25, 2012 1:17 PM EST reply actions  

On the Coco contract

I can’t give Walt credit for Cordero being stupid and not taking that contract, if it was indeed offered. Since it clearly worked out to be over-priced and would have been an over-pay if accepted, then I’m more apt to file my tick on the chalkboard for Walt under “What the hell were you thinking?!?!”

Now, I will give him credit for signing Madson to a ridiculously good contract. For that Walt can have kudos. But man, he dodged a bullet on Cordero,and we should be praising jebus it was so.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

Based on what Walt has said regarding Coco

I’m pretty sure he didn’t offer him more than one guaranteed year. I’d actually be pretty willing to assume that he offered a deal very similar to the one Madson eventually signed…meaning 1 guaranteed year with a club option and a buyout.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 25, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

we rarely know what is real and what is imagination in negotiations

Agents lie to drive up their client’s perceived value. Teams lie to save face. I have a hard time believing that CoCo turned down that offer, so that leads me to believe the offer wasn’t a real offer.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 25, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Given the market, I also find Cordero turning that down hard to believe

I’m happy with Madson. I’d have been content with Cordero on the cheap, but since the Reds are in that “all-in” mentality, and rightfully so given the decimation of the Central this offseason, Madson brings much more hope. For that, I give Walt credit and kudos.

But man oh man, if that contract was offered to Cordero, he’s 10 kinds of idiot.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Terrific Title

Also, I forgot Ludwick was on this team now.

Also, I’m so excited that Joey Votto plays on this team.

Also, I can’t wait for spring.

by ben nevis on Jan 25, 2012 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

A strike against Oswalt is that it's rare to see short righties pitch well in their mid and late thirties

Since 1980, there’ve been only 7 pitcher seasons with an ERA+ over 110 by a 34+ year old righty listed at 6’ or under. 3 of those seasons are from Maddux. Oswalt might do it, but he’d be bucking the odds without even considering his back problems.

by ken on Jan 25, 2012 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

That's a great point

How tall is Oswalt really? He’s listed at 6ft, which is only an inch under similar pitchers through age 34 like David Cone. I feel better about Oswalt because of his durability over his career and the exceptionalism suggested by his numbers.

And what about pitchers whose weight is < 0 and are made entirely of antimatter? Like Chris Carpenter?

Hopefully the Sox and Rangers’ interest is more than enough to outbid the Cardinals. Even with the Sox trying to stay under the luxury tax, the Reds can’t run with that crowd. But it would be cool if they got involved to bid things out of the Cards’ reach and then backed into acquiring him.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 25, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like a reasonable guess is 5'10

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 25, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

who's the backup first baseman?

looking at the 40-man roster, it would seem that if Votto has to miss a few games, Soto might be called up, but who would replace him during a game? Frazier, END, Cairo? Valaika? i really don’t know. i hope we don’t have to find out.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

by Heeringa on Jan 25, 2012 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

And maybe Ludwick

Big target with the glove on his right hand.

by ken on Jan 25, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It is hard.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 25, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Six Oscar noms

I mean, it was a decent little movie, but the last thing I walked out of the theater thinking was “Oscar-caliber”.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 25, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I think they nominate twenty-seven movies now.

And is this the year that each category will have three winners?

I think Iiked it more than you but yeah, it doesn’t need prizes and whatnot.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously.

I say nominate sixty-eight movies and let’s have ’em battle it out weekend after weekend… FEBRUARY FABULOUSNESS!

Like college basketball but all gay and spectacular and hyper-competitive like everything else in Hollywood!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

tes yes no yes no yes

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 25, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

And yet "Drive" got shut out

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jan 25, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

the acting in moneyball was pretty good

i can kinda see pitt & hill getting oscar noms.

the movie itself was not that good. no way it should be a contender for best picture*

*moneyball is pretty much the only movie i saw in the theater last year, but i find it very hard to believe there weren’t 9 or 10 better movies released last year.

by 'tHan on Jan 26, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think there were

I’ve only seen a handful of movies this year, but I haven’t heard much buzz about movies beyond 2 or 3 (Artist, Midnight in Paris, Descendants). I think Moneyball is fine as a filler in the top 10 list, but I wouldn’t give it the award. Descendants was MUCH better (I haven’t seen Artist or Midnight).

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 26, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

The real question is where Moneyball ranks in the baseball movie pantheon

It might be in my top 10. My top tier are The Bad News Bears, Major League, The Natural, and Eight Men Out. Moneyball is in the next tier with 61, Bull Durham, The Sandlot, Mr. Baseball (which objectively I know is terrible), and a few others.

by ken on Jan 26, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Am I more drawn to A League of Their Own because I'm a woman?

Because I think it’s just a fantastic movie in general, and it always seems to get left off of other people’s lists.

My favorites are A League of Their Own, Eight Men Out, Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, and The Sandlot. I think Moneyball is above lots of others in terms of being a quality movie, but not in terms of pure baseball enjoyment.

Also, my guilty pleasure baseball movie is Fever Pitch, even though I hate hate hate the Drew Barrymore character.

by the finest muffins on Jan 26, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot about A League

But that’s safely in my Top 10.

Didn’t get the appeal of Fever Pitch. It just didn’t compare to the book or Colin Firth adaptation. /adjusts psuedo-snob glasses

by ken on Jan 26, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

plus he does ads for capital one.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

plus he does ads for capital one.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

He might have done 2 ads.

"Prediction is difficult, especially about the future." - BubbaFan

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 27, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Off the artistic role call for life

every word he says is suspect!

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

i've only seen midnight in paris, but it was twice the movie moneyball was.

i just couldn’t get past the scenes with pitt & his daughter.

those were stolen directly from californication. they even made the little girls look the same.

by 'tHan on Jan 26, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, it was far from perfect

and as somebody who knew the story well from the book and real life, I wasn’t all that enthralled by it. My wife, however, knew very little, and she was impressed that she got so into a movie about a team that didn’t win it all.

So, I guess what I’m saying is that baseball fans might have a different perspective on the movie than non-baseball fans.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 26, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I feel like that movie would have been

more enjoyable had I not read the book first.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 26, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

i didn't read the book

and i’ve always felt like that might be why i didn’t really enjoy the movie.

by 'tHan on Jan 26, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm..

my biggest problem with the movie were the factual inaccuracies, and the daughter scenes.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 26, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The scenes with Beane and his daughter were the ('surprise') crux of the movie!

I’ve never seen ‘Californication’ but "Moneyball’ was an adapted screenplay, y’know.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Spoiler alert-

Dude loves his daughter and his daughter loves him. …Winner!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd.

I think you’re right about the industry giving the nominations to the movies best greased for the hype machine. (‘Moneyball’ was released on DVD about a week before it was nominated for Best Picture. The second shipment of those DVDs will now have a “Oscar Nominated” sticker on each one. Profit!)

But as far as winning Best Picture, I think the messy politics of its production may also get in the way of that. Steven Soderberg was originally to direct ‘Moneyball’ but Sony fired him (well before shooting began IIRC) and brought in the guy who did ‘Capote’ (pretty solid flick BTW). So if you’re in Hollywood and you have a vote for Best Picture and you don’t work for (or closely) with Sony (Columbia/TriStar) you might find another film (there are like 17 others!) to vote for that won’t put a pie in the face of Soderberg and everyone who works with him.

I think ‘Best Picture’ usually goes to the one movie that Hollywood most feels best about (remember ‘Crash’ with that huge-ass cast?). And the one that the can easily be re-sold for home-viewing. (Remember how nobody had seen ‘Crash’ and then everyone rented it and said ‘meh’ but then remember how it was made into a TV series because it was an award-winning movie that everyone was familiar with?)

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait.

What?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Stop it!

I wanna know what Cy means and I don’t want funny pictures Make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

if you use "hall" instead of "film" or "field"

I may be overreading the joke, though.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 26, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still lost.

But still curious.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

really?

most stop being curious after they graduate college.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 26, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Dammit, Cy!

Stop being so coy and just give it to me!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I honestly don't think there were that many mainstream movies that were clearly better than 'Moneyball.'

It was pretty well done and solidly entertaining even if you’re not crazy about baseball.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 26, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Cairo and Frazier are the answers

I think both would have to be injuried to worry about another options.

Whoever lives past today and comes home safely will rouse himself each year on this day, show his neighbors his scars, and tell embellished stories of all their great feats of battle.

by brown11b on Jan 25, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

If Votto follows his track record, there will be about a dozen starts available at first.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 25, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

regarding the bats right / throws left rankings...

4 of the top 10 in that list have played for the Reds.

3.) Hal Chase
5.) Hick Carpenter
9.) Ryan Ludwick
10.) Cody Ross

Apparently, there must be something in the water in Cincinnati. I must have had some too, since I grew up throwing left-handed and batting right-handed.

by ClayMC on Jan 25, 2012 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

and weirdly enough

it appears that only two RH-hitting, LH-throwing players who were considered “currently playing” at the time of the article’s release (2009) were Ludwick and Ross, the two OFs the Reds have been most commonly tied to this offseason. I don’t know if any other players with this combo have made their way to the MLB since 2009, but if they have, I’m willing to bet the Reds will sign them.

by ClayMC on Jan 25, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Joey's going to be a little bit older than Fielder he shops for the big contract..

..but he’s also going to continue to be four inches taller and sixty-five pounds lighter.

And he’ll be a real-life defensive player with at least one league MVP trophy.

Kinda maybe evens things out.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

Chuck, I like that you've given Albert demi-god status..

but done so parenthetically.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 2:43 PM EST reply actions  

That's not intended to be clever

I mean, I seriously think he’s terrifically super.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 25, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, he is an Angel.

(of Anaheim)

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Such a bad avatar bet.

Don’t you think the Phillies would have made some effort to resign him if they had reason to believe he would still be effective?

They could have had him back on a one-year deal for less money than they paid last year. I can’t believe Oswalt wouldn’t have wanted to stay on a perennial playoff team.

Last chance to take it back.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 25, 2012 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Arbitrate'd

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 25, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

On a completely unrelated note

You got that case of steaks I sent you, didn’t you?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 25, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but you really need to use dry ice next time

especially if you’re going to ship ground.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 25, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

It also depends just how much you think of Cueto for 2012

so there are several variables that could come out in Chuckie’s favor.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 25, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Every one knows that Votto is gone in 2 years or sooner.

FWIW I still think that giving up Yonder when the Reds could have nailed him down, a la Bruce was a very big (and poor) gamble.

Shoulda traded Joey now…I hope I am totally wrong.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 25, 2012 3:13 PM EST reply actions  

No one cares!

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 25, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously you have no sense of the business side of sports.

Why hang onto Votto when you could soooooooooooo much for him. Mark my words Yonder Alnso is going to hit and hit very well at the MLB level.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 26, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions  

There's only so long you can trade players for a potential future

Joey Votto is a bonafide star, and everyone that follows the Reds knows it. Trading him, even for a haul of prospects, is signalling to everyone that the Reds are still building for the future. Aside from that, you are giving up actual, tippy-top level production for only theoretical production.

Both of those things would kill the Reds, from a marketing and revenue-generating perspective. Even if, long term, things panned out that the haul they got was actually great, the Reds would lose support in the short term. And it is harder to get them to come back then to keep’em coming.

No, I think Votto needs to be the face as long as possible, because that helps get people to support the team and believe the team always has a chance. That in turn fills the coffers to allow for them to actually contend, which gets more people to spend money, which gives them more money to be competitive, etc. That’s a cycle we can all get behind.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

A three-way deal with the Dodgers and some club with mad prospects. In December.

Mark it down.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It could happen, I don't doubt

I’m just not sure it would be the right thing to do.

If you start from the premise that we can’t keep Votto (or won’t even try to pay him, which either way has merit), then moving him for prospects makes sense. You’d be balancing the benefits to the club of having Votto with what his remaining time is worth in terms of prospects to another club. So the optimum time to move him might be this winter.

If, however, you start with the premise that Votto is the face of the club and a legitimate star, the Reds should try to keep him, even if he commands a Fielder-esque payday (and he probably will). He’s a draw, no question, so the remaining strategy is how to keep and pay a contender around him on a budget, but that has been shown to be possible. So long as it doesn’t end up like an ARod in Texas style club and more like a Cardinals team over the last decade (I shudder to really write that, but it’s true – they’ve balanced paying stars with filling out the roster well), it can work for the Reds, and would probably be the less risky and more rewarding strategy.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Who's talking about trading him for prospects?

Not me.
He could bring in some great pitching…but its all a moot point now.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 26, 2012 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully it's all a moot point

Because if it’s not, it means we’re 15 games out in July.

by ken on Jan 26, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Poor business...short term thinking and no'team brand/identy' for fans to get behind.

Coulda had Bruce, BP, Yonder, Mescaline, Stubbs under contract affordably for several overlapping years…this is a cycle that also brings customers through the and develops loyalty to the Reds…(and possibly Cozart and Hi-Z too).

Instead lets try to win it all for 1 season and then shuck off the high salaries and go for a few more winless seasons until the ‘stars’ (no pun intended) align again…say in 2019.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 26, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Alrighty, I just did some calculations on the 2012 payroll

25 man roster (no Chapman) ~ $75 M
25 man roster (w/Chapman) ~ $78 M
Entire 40 man roster ~ $85 M

by vottomatic on Jan 25, 2012 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

dork

Brevity is the soul of wit.

by Heeringa on Jan 25, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i'm sorry, nerd.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

by Heeringa on Jan 25, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Wilson Valdez?

Hmm. There’s our 30+ year old veterany SS I guess.

by DocRam on Jan 25, 2012 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

For Horst

Too bad it wasn’t Fisher. That would have been sweet.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Fisher actually showed signs of being a decent pitcher last year.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 25, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but we would have traded the 19 inning game loser for the 19 game winner

Serious irony there.

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Jan 25, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Brass Monkey is a timeless jam.

"If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold." - Hawkeye00

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 25, 2012 4:17 PM EST reply actions  

Somewhere between 'Wooly Bully' and 'Mama Said Knock You Out'

An alltime classic let’s-get-nuts-tonight jam.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 25, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You're absolutely right about Wooly Bully.

I used that last month on a BIG project.

"If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold." - Hawkeye00

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 25, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

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