Johnnie B. Baker and the Legend of Knifey-Spoony

A somewhat interesting article on WAR over 5 year spans, but found this tidbit particularly intriguing:

1989-1993: Barry Bonds (46.3), Rickey Henderson (34.3), Cal Ripken (30.3), Ryne Sandberg (29.4), Ken Griffey Jr. (28.6)

Speaking of 1993, Bonds was off-the-charts spectacular that season, as he led the NL in home runs, RBIs, on-base percentage, slugging and total bases, scored 129 runs, won a Gold Glove, stole 29 bases, cured the sick and kept the fog out of San Francisco. An interesting note: Bonds spent most of that season batting fifth, as Dusty Baker wanted to split Clark and Bonds, two left-handed batters, with righty Matt Williams. So Baker hit his best hitter fifth, giving him fewer plate appearances over the course of the season (about 30 fewer than if he’d hit third all season), and the hitter with the lowest OBP fourth, cutting into Bonds’ RBI opportunities. It’s likely that if Baker had gone Williams, Bonds, Clark or Bonds, Williams, Clark, the Giants may have won an extra game or two ... and beat out the Braves.

4 months ago BobbyO 27 comments 0 recs |

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For some reason

The FanShot Wizard is ignoring my blockquote coding. Oh well.

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Jan 18, 2012 10:30 AM EST reply actions

I read this, too, and facepalm'd the moment I did.

So terribly unsurprising…although ‘93 was Bonds’ first season in SF, so at least it could be chalked up to Baker getting used to having him around.

Either way, it made me realize that either Rolen or Ludwick will be batting 4th in between Votto and Bruce this season (but maybe Bruce will OPS 1.000 and win an MVP!)

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 18, 2012 11:49 AM EST reply actions

Not sure if itll end up being relevant

but didn’t Bruce bat 4th once Rolen went down and BP took over leadoff??

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions

Yep, it was his 2nd most common batting spot

Split          G GS  PA  AB  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS IBB BAbip
Batting 5th   66 66 289 257 70 13  2 15  46 31 65 .272 .349 .514  .863   8  .309
Batting 4th   63 62 266 235 57 10  0 10  33 26 66 .243 .331 .413  .744   4  .296
Batting 6th   11 11  44  41 12  1  0  3  10  2 12 .293 .318 .537  .855   0  .333
Batting 2nd    6  6  30  24  6  0  0  3   5  5  5 .250 .379 .625 1.004   0  .188
Batting 3rd    3  3  15  12  2  1  0  1   2  3  5 .167 .333 .500  .833   1  .167
Batting 7th    3  3  14  12  2  1  0  0   1  2  3 .167 .286 .250  .536   0  .222
Batting 9th    4  0   5   4  1  1  0  0   0  1  2 .250 .400 .500  .900   0  .500
Batting 8th    1  0   1   0  0  0  0  0   0  1       0           1.000         1

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 1/18/2012.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 18, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions

I know order doesn't matter,

but interesting to see him batting so much better at #5. Brings back fond memories of Dunn debates.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 18, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions

except Bruce's OPS's start with 8

while Dunn’s normally started with 9.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 18, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions

That is pretty bizarre though.

And it’s not like there’s a big difference in BAbip either. His slugging is 100 points higher though. That’s pretty wild.

by crolfer on Jan 19, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions

thinking about it more,

it’s probably just that he was batting 5th during that crazy month (June? May?) when he was just hitting everything.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 19, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

Clark was coming off a 150 OPS+ year and was the face of the franchise, and Williams hit 136 that season

Bonds was better but I don’t think it was unreasonable to hit him fifth in his first year in SF.

Giants also outperformed their pythag by five that year, so the what-if games about batting orders seem kinda pointless to me.

by ken on Jan 18, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

Good points

Counterpoint: knifey-spoony is the dumbz

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Jan 18, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Don't you know that Cubs are changing their name to the Chicago Generals

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST reply actions

Brought to you by Budweiser

by ken on Jan 18, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

"It’s likely that if Baker had gone Williams, Bonds, Clark or Bonds, Williams, Clark, the Giants may have won an extra game or two"

It’s likely that if X had happened then Y may have happened.

C’mon.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 PM EST reply actions

Agreed

But my point in posting was to highlight that Dusty deprived his best hitter 30 PAs in order to play knifey-spoony. That sort of inflexibility and lack of critical thought is just plain frustrating. I like Dusty, and I think he is a decent enough manager, but I posted this because I think it is typical of the complaint that most of us have… he too often manages by The Book without regard for common sense.

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Jan 19, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

Gotcha.

It’s funny that Schoenfield uses a little bit of half-baked not-logic to question Dusty’s strategeries.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 19, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

Ironic

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Jan 19, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions

Also, you have to take into account the affect that other teams would have brought in a tough lefty for more of those PAs...

…reducing offense. And it’s important to note that the Giants wouldn’t have had 30 bonus PAs from Bonds or anything like that. We’re literally only talking about the offensive differential between Williams and Bonds. While Bonds was unworldly in 1993, Williams was no slouch with his .886 OPS.

So you subtract the Bonds-Williams differential, but have to add in the negative affect of enticing the opposition to use their toughest lefty predictably and more often. That said, I think this affect is over-stated and is rather subtle…less than 1 game, IMO.

"I think it's possible this could possibly happen." - Harold Reynolds

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 20, 2012 5:29 AM EST up reply actions