2012 Community Prospect Rankings: Hank-Rod is 9th on the list
by BK on Jan 16, 2012 8:01 AM EST
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PrintHenry Rodriguez makes the 9th spot on your list. He should finally be tested in a higher level this year, and it'll be interesting to see how he responds. In my book, he's still slightly behind Gregorius, but if he shores up his plate discipline and defense, there's a really nice prospect there.
Three new names on the list to start the week, all hitters. Vote now and if I'm forgetting anyone, say so in the comments.
Tony Cingrani, LHP, 22, BA-NR, Sickels-#6
(Billings) 1.75 ERA, 51.1 IP, 80 K, 6 BB, 0.80 WHIP
Pros: Fastball sits around 93-94, but can reach back and get 97. Long, consistent delivery. Lots of strikes, doesn't walk many.
Cons: He was a reliever in college, so questions still remain whether or not he can be a starter through a full season. Secondary pitches are promising (slider, changeup), but not even close to being finished products.
Mariekson "DiDi" Gregorius, SS, 21, BA-#6, Sickels-#7
(Bakersfield) .303/.333/.457/.790, 5 HR, 28 RBI
(Carolina) .270/.312/.392/.704, 2 HR, 16 RBI
Pros: Excellent athlete, has the tools to be a well above average defensive SS. Very good contact skills.
Cons: Very aggressive plate approach, little in-game power so far. Still young, but needs his athleticism to translate into offensive numbers.
Donald Lutz, 1B, 23, BA-UR, Sickels-UR
(Dayton) .301/.358/.492/.850, 20 HR, 75 RBI
Pros: Lots of power, and had a breakout season this year where he started hitting for average too. German fella.
Cons: Strikeouts a major issue, and doesn't walk enough. A little old for his level after 3 years of rookie ball.
Kyle Lotzkar, RHP, 22, BA-NR, Sickels-#15
(Dayton) 4.32 ERA, 66.2 IP, 72 K, 25 BB, 1.14 WHIP
Pros: Throws 3 pitches, with a fastball in the mid-90s, a good curve and a developing changeup. Gets lots of strikeouts and doesn't allow many baserunners.
Cons: Injuries. Tommy John survivor, and his mechanics haven't changed much to help alleviate that risk.
Denis Phipps, OF, 26, BA-UR, Sickels-#20
(Carolina) .328/.382/.502/.884, 7 HR, 38 RBI
(Louisville) .380/.428/.576/1.004, 5 HR, 26 RBI
Pros: Toolsy outfielder who had a huge breakout season last year. Can play all outfield positions. On the 40-man roster.
Cons: Only one good season. Still kind of old to be a "prospect", so he's more of a late bloomer. Plate discipline is still pretty awful, and had a high BABIP last year.
Gabriel Rosa, 3B, 18, BA-UR, Sickels-#17
(AZL Reds) .245/.314/.406/.719, 2 HR, 10 RBI
Pros: Good speed on the basepaths, and scouts love his plate approach.
Cons: Rookie debut wasn't spectacular, still a very raw talent.
J.C. Sulbaran, RHP, 22, BA-#9, Sickels-#12
(Bakersfield) 4.60 ERA, 137 IP, 155 K, 50 BB, 1.39 WHIP
Pros: Very solid 3-pitch repertoire, with an above average FB and a solid CH and CU. Above average stuff leads to high Ks, and he significantly improved on his previously spotty control in 2011.
Cons: Some question about his unorthodox mechanics remain, although he smoothed them out in 2011. Somewhat of an injury history. Mainly, he needs to repeat his strong season in AA in 2012.
David Vidal, 3B, 22, BA-UR, Sickels-#13
(Dayton) .280/.350/.498/.848, 20 HR, 85 RBI
Pros: Very lively bat, hitting for both average and power. Good defense.
Cons: Still questions about his size (he's listed at 5'11"), and struck out way too much (111 in 454 AB).
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absolutely
have been for the last couple and will continue to be voting cingrani until he makes it. just reading the stats and his pros gives me a semi.
He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife.
by ThreeofSpades on Jan 16, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I just can't get that worked up about a reliever prospect
I have yet to hear a single scout say he can stick as a starter. Until that happens, I can’t rank him above guys like Hank-Rod, DiDi, or Vidal.
Don’t get me wrong, Cingrani could well become a badass closer, but still.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Boxberger'd
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Sickels ranked him sixth best prospect in the Reds system
and says he could be a number three starter. He’s learning a couple of new pitches, and is doing well with them.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Gotta go with the 21 yr old at AA
23 yr olds in A ball are no bueno
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
There are five guys on this list who I would put above Frazier
He was #1 not long ago. Is he a disappointment? Or is the system that much stronger now?
by poojols on Jan 16, 2012 8:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think it's the argument about is he still considered by some to still be a prospect.
I think the fact that he’s gotten some playing time in the Bigs has hurt his prospect talent. And the fact that the Reds don’t seem too concerned about the fact that he’s blocked at every position seems to hurt his ranking as well.
It's not worth winning if you can't win big.
I think overall
the system is more or less the same strength it was a few years ago when Frazier was at the top. The difference is that back then, Frazier just finished the season as a versatile 23-year-old who just OPS’d .839 in AAA. Now, he’s going to be 26, he’ll likely start the year in AAA, which will be his fourth stint at the level, and he’s blocked at every position he plays by at least two other players. He still projects to be more or less the same player he projected to be, it’s just that I think we’re all experiencing a bit of Frazier fatigue. Top prospects don’t spend this much time in AAA. They just don’t.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 16, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
A lurker coming out of his shell for Didi
I have been voting for Didi since #6. I agreed completely with the top 5, but of the 4 voted in from 6-9, only Frazier would be in my personal top 10. For what it’s worth, my 6-10 would go Didi, Cingrani, Frazier, Sulburban, Vidal.
HRod and Yorman just don’t excite me much yet. While I think Stephenson might be a top 3 prospect for them in 2013, I find myself unsure of how to compare a guy who has only played against high schoolers with actual professionals.
Welcome, Waffles.
You met Muffins yet?
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 16, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
And OBC?
He doesn’t have a food-related handle but he’s so cute you could just eat him up!
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 16, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Waffles and walnuts
This handle is partially a tribute Paulie Walnuts of Sopranos lore. My rationale: “What would be the least intimidating mob name fit to print?”
Since I love waffles, the choice was easy.
by johnnywaffles on Jan 16, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Everybody loves waffles
people who don’t love waffles are communists, or worse yet, Cubs fans.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I think we should tread softly about the Commie talk.
When China owns America they will make the Reds the highest payroll team that wins the WS every year.
Its obvious this is the best possible outcome for the Cincy area.
Also Yankees and Nationals will not be looked favorably by the puppet government install by China.
Whoever lives past today and comes home safely will rouse himself each year on this day, show his neighbors his scars, and tell embellished stories of all their great feats of battle.
by brown11b on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
people who don't love waffles rooted for the Patriots the other night
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Charlie Waffles brother?
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 16, 2012 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
regarding stephenson
I don’t think his upside can just be overlooked. I get that he has no professional experience, but compared to some of the other guys you mentioned he actually has a chance to end up a difference maker for the team rather than simply a complimentiry piece. I typically favor upside in ranking prospects though.
re: stephenson
I agree that Stephenson has the better likelihood of being a stud than Frazier, Cingrani, Vidal, etc. But ceiling is only part of the equation. Floor and likelihood of reaching different plateaus are also important.
If Frazier has a 80-90% chance of being a serviceable bench guy, a 40% chance of being a .260- 20 HR guy with a .340 OBP and decent glove on the big end of a 70-30 timeshare, and a 5-10% of being the #2 hitter in a nice lineup, how high would the likelihood of Stephenson being a solid #1-2 starter have to be to surpass Frazier?
Maybe I am just too skeptical of HS players, but he doesn’t seem there yet.
by johnnywaffles on Jan 16, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
i see where youre coming from
We could debate the floor versus ceiling thing for hours, but it mostly just depends on your own personal opinion. As far as Stephenson goes I just think the reds are lucky to have gotten a guy like him from their draft position last year, since in other years he may have gone a lot higher. Those high upside arms are things most teams look to stockpile. High schoolers are risky sure, but then there are those who turn into Shelby millers for teams, and you could make an argument that Stephenson is further along than miller was at the time he was drafted.
But like I said, I understand where you’re coming from. I guess I just think saying Stephenson is a “high school pitcher and therefore we should underrate him” is a bit unfair for a guy with his current and projectable skill set. And I like upside because a team of Todd fraziers will get you only so far, you need the joey vottos and Johnny cuetos if you want your team to go anywhere. Thus those are the kinds of prospects I tend to rank higher.
I like to have a mixture
I am glad the Reds drafted Stephenson, because he could be an ace in 4 to 6 years, but I am also glad they drafted Mike Leake who was a 3/4 level starter out of the gate, and is a 2/closer to 3 starter now.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Unrelated, but I saw this linked on Twitter yesterday
I think we know why Jay Bruce is looking buff now: MMA.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
lots of nfl players have been going through mma training in recent years
jay glazer & randy couture have a camp set up in the off season specifically for nfl players.
jay looks noticeably more in shape & i’m glad he’s decided to get into MMA training. more baseball players should do this as well.
also, ATT is one of the best camps in the world. it’s pretty impressive that he’s training there.
I'm glad that he's committed to being physically fit..
or perhaps more physically fit but it would seem to me that MMA training and MMA training camps might be overkill for baseball players?
Is the MMA training similar to CrossFit training? Because I think those are pretty cool and pretty effective at general badassery. But again, a MLB player with potential MVP skeelz should maybe be working with a professonal trainer who has trained other MLB MVPs?
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 16, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I can see where you're coming from there.
I mean, an NFL player (especially a defensive player) can really help himself with MMA training. But in a sport with skills required that are so specific, it’s probably better to train for those specific skills.
But hey, this is a way for him to get in great physical shape and he enjoys it, so he’ll work even harder at it. I can’t complain.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
it's not all the training he's doing. it's his offseason conditioning program
i think we can see the results. he is getting in better shape & mma training is a fun & effective way to do that.
he’ll do his baseball related training as he gets closer to spring training.
i think phillips said he didn’t even touch a bat or glove until last week.
I think BP and JB should both probably ask Mr Votto what he does.
Then do that.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 16, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
nah
that would make too much freaking sense
all baseball players are robots and should train the same way!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
he has a lot of a pretty good views
except those on beer
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
'tHan view list
go!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
my view on umpires is that they are unnecessary and that as a whole they are terrible at their jobs.
i want them to go away
they are terrible at their jobs
but they are unionized, therefore good luck getting rid of them any time soon
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
This is a fallacy
They’re actually prob better at their jobs than most of us here are at our jobs. Even the most knowledgeable blogger really doesn’t have a strong grasp of the rule book.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
it's not rule book knowledge that concerns me
it’s positioning to make calls, inconsistent strike zones, and then the fact that umps rarely get together to talk about if they got it right or wrong
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
And then you have the umps with the fragile egos
You know, the thin-skinned ones that take offense to any challenge to their authoritah, and try to make it all about them. Makes me think of Joe West and CB Bucknor immediately.
Respect my authoritah!
The problem is that they're human
And that even a mistake 1% of the time is going to cost a team a game every now and then.
I would not be opposed at all to a computer/robot calling balls and strikes. I don’t know how you’d make it work for plays at the plate, etc.
How will a machine call a foul tip?
Catcher interference?
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
A program generating random numbers could call a balk as well as most umps
And I’m not saying there shouldn’t be an ump back there at all. Plays at the plate, foul tips, etc. would still need a person, I think.
Exactly, he just has a machine tell him whether the pitch just thrown was a ball or a strike
he’s definitely still standing back there and probably still making the signs himself so the players on the field and the fans can see it (and no one actually loses their jobs).
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I don't want to say that will never happen
It is foolish to think that technology won’t win at some point in the infinite future, but I don’t see that happening for a long time, perhaps until their is another Eric Greg like play off performance. The umpires union would probably fight it for two reasons; they would find it insulting and also would believe it is the first step towards engineering them off the field completely.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
Unfortunately, I think it is a long way off as well
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
That worked well for the meat hook
also Kevin, Cecil, and Dunn, plus many many more.
I dont think teams should demand certain off season training,
But I think they should actively lead the players to do what is best for them.
by Eastwindquinn on Jan 16, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Votto's regime wouldn't work for most people
Dude is like the Terminator, obsessive and single-minded in his goal. It takes a certain kind of personality to do what he does.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I read about his offseason work out program in an issue of Men's Health.
It was absolutely ridiculous.
Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jan 16, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure a lot of athletes have ridiculous regimes
but this story really drove home how obsessed he is with being great, and that was when he was 16.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
he's got some youtube videos
They don’t necessarily look tough at first, but for 3-4 hours a day? Yeah.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 16, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Here's the link to the Mensfit article
on Joey’s workout, if anyone is interested.
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
Bubba Crosby
used to box in the off-season. Just punching bags and stuff, no actual matches. Couldn’t risk breaking something he might need later. But he thought it was a good workout for an outfielder. Helped with quickness and agility.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
that must have really helped Bubba stick in the Majors..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I like the sound of Smokin' Todd Frazier
The Hellraiser.
by Brendanukkah on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
and in this corner!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I always liked Harang's workout regimen: run a lot. bike a lot.
Obviously field players need to have more upper body strength for hitting and whatnot, but it’s a loooong season, and you have to have your legs under you.
Biceps are for show, quads for a pro.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
They told us on the clubhouse tour for Fantasy Camp
that Harang worked out in the pool a lot to save his knees.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I miss Fantasy Camp and Cuba comments
Those were the good old days!
Hey, your Wire to Wire link in your sig goes to a non functioning page on Amazon., FYI.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Bah
stupid amazon changed their URL formatting.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
He used the word "stuff" so many times I thought I was reading a scouting report on Aroldis Chapman.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
"I don't know where he learned to fight, but where I'm from you don't do that."
/grewupinNewHampshiresuburbs
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
probably awkwardly once his son gets closer to puberty
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Great. So he's going to be on the DL for 6 weeks recovering from pink eye
and in the meantime he’ll show up to public appearances in Affliction t-shirts.
by FordhamRam on Jan 16, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
And if he shares his helmet with someone just once
theonce the whole damn team’s gonna have cauliflower ear.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 16, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
doesn't 'tHan have a whole closet full of Affliction and Tap Out gear?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
i have no tap out stuff. i don't like it
i have a few affliction & silver star shirts that are walkout shirts of my favorite fighters
ah, Silver Star
I knew it was something aside from Affliction..
doesn’t change the fact that you won Affliction stuff..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
gotta ask 'tHan
usually I see d-bags wearing them at clubs, the casino, and of course the mall
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sulbaran vs. Lotzkar
I don’t understand why Lotzkar is receiving more votes. Sulbaran has good stuff, strikes out a lot of batters, pitched at A+ last year and performed well considering the hitting environment, and does not have a significant injury history. Lotzkar has never pitched above A-, and does have a bad injury history.
by Snake the Jake on Jan 16, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions
but he has a sweet-ass nickname
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Jan 16, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Cingrani reminds me a lot of Wood.
Insane numbers his first year, lefty, and not highly thought of. I think Cingrani is gonna be something awesomesuace in a few years.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 16, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
so we'll turn him into Jonny Venters in a few years?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
We'll hafta throw in a couple midgets
by poojols on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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