Red It, Watched It, And Wept - Week of 1/13/12
by FordhamRam on Jan 13, 2012 3:30 PM EST
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Covering what other writers are too scared too preoccupied with actual news to cover.
Special Hall of Freaking Fame Edition
Saturday: A Gomesian Approach
Good writers copy. Great writers steal. Exceptional writers reuse plots while changing the names. In this regard, the Cincinnati Enquirer showed its exceptionalism today by showcasing Chris Heisey’s exuberance for the opportunity to become the Reds' everyday left fielder. Why do we say that? Because they wrote the same darn thing last year about Jonny Gomes. Truly, any concerns we currently have about left field are unjustified and irrational.
* * *
Sunday: Stat-O-Maniac
The trade of Yonder Alonso and crew for Mat Latos has yielded transaction and sabermetric fans (two demographics which comprise 85% of all Red Reporter readership) a new toy: TradeWAR. What is TradeWAR? The newest and greatest way to calculate a player's value to winning games! How is it computed? Well, you take your standard WAR of a given player and subtract the WAR from any other players traded into your division due to the acquisition of the previous said player. For example, the Reds acquired Mat Latos for Yonder Alonso. The acquisition for Alonso made the Padres trade Anthony Rizzo to the Cubs. Now that Rizzo is in the division of the Reds, to determine the actual value of Latos, you have to subtract the benefit the Cubs receive from Rizzo. Do you think this is dumb, overly complex or possibly impossible to calculate due to the high frequency that players are traded? Well, you either cannot comprehend logic or are lucky enough to have landed a gig at the Cincinnati Enquirer.
* * *
Monday: Larkin Inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame! (COMMENTS OF THE WEEK)
Now,
* * *
Tuesday: A Short Trip Down Mammory Lane
Remember when we used to think Leatherpants was an alright GM? You know, back when his competition was with people like Freddy Claire? We here at RIWIAW were forced to recall those memories this week when our RSS feed got lousy with stories from the New York press about Steve Phillips doing stupid things with interns contracts concerning Barry Larkin. Just remember, folks, it could have been worse. Not more embarrassing, just worse.
* * *
Wednesday: This week’s "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME" Award
Did you ever wonder who are the egomaniacs that refuse to vote for shoe-in Hall of Famers like Barry Larkin in spite of the overwhelming evidence? It’s fools like Randy Miller (who?) of the CourierPostOnline (what?), a paper in suburban New Jersey (why?). It’s a good thing we have hard hitters like Miller who seldom fall for dumb gossip stories to question whether or not someone is deserving of being in the Hall of Fame. More importantly, I guess all writers should have the honor to work alongside J. G. Taylor Spink Award winners, like this one, before they earn a vote.
* * *
Thursday: Ex-Rated
Do you know what we don’t do enough as a society? Prematurely grade things before they’re completed. That never happens. So, of course, whenever this occurs, it’s NEWS! In today’s close encounter with instant gratification, we have Jonah Keri of Grantland proclaiming that the Reds won the offseason by waiting on making transactions and not overpaying for mediocrity. Stay tuned next week to find which team Mr. Hill thinks REALLY won the offseason after signing Carlos Pena.
* * *
Friday: Every Day Is A Friday When You're At The Enquirer!
If we told our (paying) bosses how much time we waste on Twitter and on Red Reporter, we’d be out of a job (or be told that we have to find a way to extend a day to 35 hours). Luckily, the writers at the Cincinnati Enquirer are not tied to these restrains. Rather, the editors seem to relish the fact that their writers choose to blog about what happens on Twitter. Today’s idle question? "Would you pay $350 for a round of golf with Joey Votto?" What did we learn? That there are still people in the media that have yet to block @btcoop71.
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I did not know that Lenny Harris had quadruple coronary bypass surgery in 2010.
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
Dave Cameron sez Walt should trade Frazier for Seth Smith:
So, what are the options? Heisey’s presence as a right-handed hitter with power (ignore his reverse platoon splits – they’re meaningless in this kind of sample) create a natural opportunity for a platoon in left field, giving the Reds the chance to acquire a guy who can hit RHPs but could use regular days off when a southpaw is on the hill. And, because they are running low on cash after signing Madson, they could use a player who doesn’t come with a big salary.
Lucky for them, that exact player is on the market – the Colorado Rockies have been shopping Seth Smith all winter, and after their signing of Michael Cuddyer, he’s lost his chance to play regularly in Denver. His projected salary of around $2 million via arbitration fits into the Reds’ budget, and Smith could thrive as a platoon player in Cincinnati.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
Yeah, but...
That leave us pretty shallow at 3B. Granted, we would still be 3 deep on the depth chart, but 2 of those guys are knocking on death’s door and other one has no discretion at the plate.
And, I don’t really understand why we should ignore his reverse platoon splits?
Because his minor league numbers suggest otherwise
Though his major league numbers suggest a reverse platoon split, it’s such a small number of PAs that the sample size is basically irrelevant.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I cannot find his minor league splits, and haven't ever seen anyone post them.
Would you please linky or cite them?
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 13, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Check minor league splits
That site is awful to navigate and it’s a bear to compile the numbers. I would do it for you, but I’m in a rush.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks - I'll look
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 13, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Here are some minor league numbers for Heisey:
2009 vs RHP: 55 H in 205 AB w/ 16 2B, 0 3B, 7 HR, 5 HBP, 11 BB, 32 LD, 54 FB, 22 PU.
2009 vs. LHP: 19 H in 55 AB w/ 3 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 1 HBP, 7 BB, 10 LD, 21 FB, 6 PU
Now that I see how to use their stats, I’ll look the rest up later and post an analysis. Maybe even a FanShot™!
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 13, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I hate to be of the 'old guard' but..
Walt and Dusty are playing to win now (drink) so I don’t think they’re interested in a regular lineup with a rookie at shortstop, a rookie at catcher and an outfield with a young and unproven centerfielder and a rookie platooning with a young and unproven left fielder.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 13, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you're saying...
play Heisey and Cozart in left while bringing in a badass vet to play SS for a year or two and then get Oswalt to lockdown the rotation. Because that also would work if you wanted to win now.
(Drink.)
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 13, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
END
but 2 of those guys are knocking on death’s door and other onehas no discretion at the plateis death’s door.
I am still a firm believer that the child destructor will go Vlad mad like its Montreal and defy all statistical correlations between plate discipline and consistent mashing of small round objects. He is one secret key to the 2012 world series run.
Roar.
Tanzen!
by Verka Serduchka on Jan 15, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This might be old news around here...
but End got robbed at gun point in November in the DR.
And he now plays for the Yankees of the Dominican Winter League, Los Tigres de Licey. Oh, wait, looks like he was suspended. Oh wait that was in November and he is back now.
Destruction never rests.
Tanzen!
by Verka Serduchka on Jan 15, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
so
He got so upset when told he couldn’t wear earrings on the field that he tore off his uniform, jumped into the stands, and left?
I don’t remember ever seeing him wear earrings on the field here in the US. Why would he pitch a hissy fit at not being able to wear them in winterball?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Or (shocker!) we could just play Frazier.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 13, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Whoops....My 'old guard' post (above) was in response to this post.
I hate to be of the ‘old guard’ but..
Walt and Dusty are playing to win now (drink) so I don’t think they’re interested in a regular lineup with a rookie at shortstop, a rookie at catcher and an outfield with a young and unproven centerfielder and a rookie platooning with a young and unproven left fielder.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 13, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you're saying...
play Heisey and Cozart in left while bringing in a badass vet to play SS for a year or two and then get Oswalt to lockdown the rotation. Because that also would work if you wanted to win now.
(Drink.)
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 13, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Starks pushing the story that Chapman won't make it
Its just a blurb in his latest Yankees/RedSox-centric column, but he quotes an anonymous “AL exec” who is really down on Aroldis.
“I just don’t see it, at all,” said one AL exec. “I don’t see a repeatable delivery. I see a guy who’s a thrower, not a starter. He doesn’t throw enough strikes. He hasn’t shown any feel for the changeup. He doesn’t hold runners. He’s not a good fielder. He can’t bunt. He can’t run the bases. He’s never been asked to do some of these things starting pitchers have to do. He’s a lead-pipe cinch as a reliever, but if he’s a starter, I’ll eat some serious crow.”
I guess we’ll see…….
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Run the bases?
A). How often does this guy think Chapman will get on? 30 times a year? B). Right, that’s why the Reds signed Chapman. To run the fucking bases.
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
Half of those criticisms are absurd or irrelevant
He’s a lefty who throws 100 – he’s not going to have problems holding runners. And, in fact, runners are 4-8 stealing on him and he had a pick-off every 12.5 IP last season. I don’t care about his fielding, baserunning and maybe a half of an iota about his bunting.
Control and repeatable delivery are fair and they’re probably his two biggest issues, along with adding a meaningful third pitch. But he’s not even 24 yet, has had all of 13 proper starts in pro baseball and has had success retiring batters at the major league level. I don’t know how anyone could be that convinced he’ll never be even a passable starter.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 13, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think the unnamed exec
was talking about this year, not never ever ever.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm not sold on aroldis as. SP either
But it’s very, very easy to move him to the pen if it doesn’t work out. There’s little risk and the reward could be huge.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
I guess he'll be eating anonymous crow.
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 13, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Jack Wilson signs with ATL
It might be theriot in the Nati after all
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Damnit. I was having a good day, too.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 13, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
A good day at 30? That's ridiculous, it's all down hill from 30
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
At least you're not stuck at the office
by Howie Feltersnatch on Jan 13, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
HE'S WEARING A TIE!!
HOW CUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
What does a string of silent "E's" sound like?
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
by TheC on Jan 14, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like..
..some dope fresh beats, ya’ll.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 14, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Ron Mahay and Clay Zavada
signed minor league deals with the Reds. Zavada and Corky might make the best ‘stache battery in history. Or at least since the ’72 A’s.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 13, 2012 7:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Great tip, as always, TT!
I like the Zavada signing. He’s a pretty average lefty who walks a few too many but rarely gives up homers, makes league minimum at best, and is under team control thru 2017. Add in the handlebar mustache, and he’s a no-brainer of a signing in my book.
Mahay is left-handed, and that’s about the only nice thing you can say about him. He’ll be 41 by the All-Star break, and seems to give most batters WILY MO POWER. He got knocked around pretty good last year, at least by those minor league batters he didn’t walk. Three teams wouldn’t promote him from AAA last year, and one of them was the Dodgers. ’Nuff said.
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 13, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lefty depth is good depth.
And the more moustache, the merrier as far as I’m concerned.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
better than the old days
when the "stache"was all that stood between the Reds and signing Rollie Fingers
Jack McKeon on 2000 Reds "We have more MRI's than RBI's on this club."
This is the best RIWIAW of any and all times
good job
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Whoa...that's a big get for the Yankees if that goes through
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Great deal for the Yankees
Pineda’s performance will suffer, but still a great deal for the Yankees.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
the Twitterverse
seems to think this is a great move for the Yankees.
Yankees fans are not happy.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Really? I thought Yankees had pitching problems?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Not anymore
They got Pineda and just signed Kuroda. Cashman had a good day.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Kuroda reportedly got 1 year, $10-11 million
Oswalt only wants $8 million.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
And with the Yankees likely done rotationing
that gives us all the more opportunity to jump in on Oswalt! Just think of all the Arroyo/RoyO jokes we could make!
“Who’s pitching today?”
“RoyO.”
“But I thought he pitched yesterday?”
“No, that was Arroyo.”
“Wait a minute, I thought…”
You know what, this routine doesn’t really work in print.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
"Who's pitching today?"
“No, who’s on first.”
“That’s what I just asked you!”
“Well, that’s what I just told you!”
by Don, the Rebel without a Blog on Jan 13, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Screw You!
Doesn’t Yu play for Texas?
I don’t play for nobody.
No, I said he plays for Texas.
Whose ass?
Texas.
I don’t know who Tex is, but I want nothing to do with his ass.
You misunderstand me.
If he doesn’t understand you, how am I supposed to?!?
What I’m telling you is…Yu might like Texas.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t. That’s not my thing, brah.
Yu might. It’s too early to know.
I already have strong suspicions.
He’s certainly got a lot of money.
How much?
If she’s already pregnant, you’re gold. - Hawkeye00
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 14, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
they do
Less so now that they got Kuroda.
But the farm system has some promising pitching talent, but is pretty devoid of hitters.
Montero was a stud in his brief callup. How would Reds fans feel if Mesoraco was traded? A Mesoraco who had hit .328 / .406 / .590 in his cup of coffee last year? A lot of fans were hoping Montero would spend his career in pinstripes.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Thing is though, there was no position for him there
Almost no one thinks he can stick at C (and Martin would get most of the playing time anyway) , 1B is still Teixiera’s for the next few years, and DH will be crowded even without Montero there. It’s a lot like Alonso’s situation, actually (Montero has a way higher ceiling than Yonder, of course.)
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
I thought he could stick at catcher
It’s not like the Yanks put a premium on defense.
The Yanks’ options at catcher are underwhelming now. Martin’s been a nice surprise, but he’s no Posada. Romine has been a huge disappointment.
And even if Montero ended up DHing a lot…he seemed to have the bat for it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Right, but if he DHed primarily, his value would've been significantly cut
He got the Yankees one top shelf pitching prospect, and one pretty good pitching prospect. The Yankees came out on top of this one
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
If Mesoraco were a 1B and Joey were locked up for 6 more years
I wouldn’t feel too bad
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Big whoop, they'll just wait for him to mature over six years in Seattle, then bring him back as a FA
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Jan 16, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jose Campos to New York.
Hector Noesi to Seattle.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 13, 2012 7:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like this deal fir the Yankees.
Montero could be a big bat for a long time, but defensively he’s exactly the opposite of what the Mariners traditionally have gone fir under Jack Z. I absolutely love Pineda and hoped he’d somehow land in Cincinnati. I also think Campos could very well turn out to be better than Noesi.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 13, 2012 8:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Interesting
Think it would have taken Edinson, grandal, yonder and box edger to land Pineda.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Who would you rather have, Pineda or Latos?
(I honestly don’t watch enough AL West to know much of him)
No idea
Either?
Pineda was a top 5 prospect in all baseball before his MLB debut. He’s not a finished product yet.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Neither is Latos, to be fair
I like ‘em both. I think I would have rather traded Mesoraco for Pineda than the package we gave up for Latos. But whatevs. I’m all up ons the Latos.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, I take it back
I like our Latos deal better.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
is "neither" in this context pronounced the same? Or like "nye-there"?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 14, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Latos gets the nod from me.
I think he has a deeper reportoire of effective pitches.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 13, 2012 8:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And he's less of an injury risk
I like Pineda, but he looked pretty worn down after the All-Star break last year. Some of that was the rookie wall, but I don’t know if he’ll ever be a high innings guy
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
Dunno
A 1.10 WHIP as a rookie vs AL batters over 170 innings is pretty impressive. A strikeout per inning. 22 yrs old. 6’7" 260 lbs.
I’d say Pineda is a beast.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Mat Latos at 22:
184.2 innings, 1.083 WHIP, 9.2 k/9.
He’s 6’6" 225 lbs.
I’d say he’s our beast.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also,
Family Guy tattoo.
Game, Set, Match.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 13, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
is that true about the family guy tattoo?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 14, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yahoo! says so.
Other interesting stuff:
"I could care less about people in San Francisco, what they think and what they say," he said. "Everybody is entitled to their opinion on everything. I could talk until I’m blue in the face about it. I’m sure Philly thinks the same thing. Florida probably thinks the same thing. People have their own opinions. Let them tweet about it….Twitter is nothing. Twitter is a bunch of people that get online and send a bunch of messages to one another that talk about professional sports and athletes and think what they say matters. Everybody’s a comedian on Twitter. Whatever.""
…Latos flits about the clubhouse like the fly that, nearing its demise, starts to bounce off walls.
Sounds like the guy is more than a little bit of a hot-headed flake. Probably the kind of guy I would not like to spend time with unless I was a player on a winning ball club and he joined the team to help us win more. (Or if I were just a Reds fan funny guy on the interweb constantly looking for something interesting to read and espouse on.)
He’s gonna be a Red Reporter favorite.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 14, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
He's huge!
When the trade happened I couldn’t help thinking of him as Andy Benes (good, young, big Padre right-hander) but I was thinking, “Well, not huge like Benes was.”
But he’s huger?!?!
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 14, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Latos
Has a 1.15 career WHIP and about a k per inning also. 6’6" 225 lbs.
Latos is a beast, too.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
Right, I think Pineda will be awesome
I just think he’ll probably be more injury-prone than Latos. A
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
I thin Seattle still would have
taken the Yankees offer. They’ve liked Montero for quite some time and nearly dealt Cliff Lee for a package he headlined. The M’s likely prefer Noesi to Volquez or Boxberger, as well.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jan 13, 2012 8:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, they almost got Montero before
Yankees were really ticked off that the deal fell through.
The player the Yankees really wanted this time was Felix Hernandez. Supposedly, they offered Betances, Banuelos, and Montero for him. Mariners laughed in their faces.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Felix will be 26 next season
Shit.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Seattle
wanted Nova instead of Noesi, but the Yanks drew the line. They aren’t trading Nova.
Uh, boy. I have a feeling they might regret that. Like when they declared Joba untouchable and traded Ian Kennedy instead.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
So the rumor was
Betances, Banuelos, Montero, and Nova for Felix? And the Yanks said no?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
no
Mariners wouldn’t trade Felix. Wouldn’t even make a counter offer on him.
They wanted Nova and Montero for Pineda and Campos. Yanks flat refused to trade Nova, and they took Noesi instead.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Ahh
That’s kinda weird. Nova is no great shakes.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
The Yankees really like him
It’s funny, because they didn’t even bother to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. Padres took him in 2008, then gave him back. He cleared waivers and became a Yankee again.
Since then, they’ve been much more enthusiastic about him. They’ve never exposed him to Rule 5 again, and they really think he could be good.
He did finish 4th in the rookie of the year voting, so it seems that the Yanks aren’t the only ones who are high on him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Eh
He won a ton of games pitching for a good offense. He doesn’t strike anyone out. He isn’t exactly stingy with walks. He’s good at getting groundballs, but not fantastic.
I think you’re right. They might regret it.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 13, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the price for a Pineda package
was Votto and Grandal?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
it's in the ballpark
as far as I’m concerned.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I was just giving Dave Cameron grief
I also don’t think Montero (even with 6 years of control) is as good as two cost-controlled years of Votto and 6 years of Grandal. I know Cameron’s original deal had the Mariners throw in a couple prospects, Chone Figgins, and a utility infielder.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Votto + Grandal is >>>> Montero. Hell, Montero is only > Grandal.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Montero > Mesoraco
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
The question is whether Montero + Seattle filler > Votto + Grandal
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
or even equal to
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the filler
but if we’re talking for Pineda, I wouldn’t have traded Votto for him, and I prefer Latos for the guys we sent to the Padres
As for Montero + ? > Votto + Grandal?
Dunno, but my original point was Montero > Mesoraco, so what would we have had to included with Mesoraco to = Montero, and then..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
That all hinges on Montero's ability behind the plate
I can’t really say much about that. His bat looks better, but Meso’s glove looks better. Just how much, on both accounts, is the question.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say those two assumptions are all but assured
so you are right that the question is how big the difference for each.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
so the equation is..
Montero bat > Mesoraco bat
Mesoraco glove > Montero glove
MoB + MoG = X
MeB + MeG = Y
Is X > Y?
I think so
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I can buy that
And I think there is a consensus on it. I think the big question though is just how much greater X is than Y. And I don’t think it’s much.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's like Mat Latos > Bronson Arroyo difference
and it’s possible that part of the Yankees hype machine made X greater than Y b/c he was a Yankee farmhand, but Montero has been one of those names thrown around the last couple years anytime the Yankees were going after a stud in a trade
Until this offseason, Mesoraco didn’t have that same frequency of mention
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is true
and a fair point. Though in Meso’s defense, when he was 16 he was playing baseball 3-4 months of the year in western PA. At the same age, Montero had already signed a pro contract.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
sure, they are at different stages of their careers
both are getting a shot this year to finally start
best case, they go nuts and set the world on fire
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a bad position for either team
One may be better than the other, but there’s a good chance they’ll both be highly productive players
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
there's also a chance they could both bust
that’s the problem with prospects
I’m rooting for Mesoraco, b/c we need him to succeed, but rookie catcher is always a risky proposition
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
it's not just Montero in the deal
They also got Noesi, and the Yankees got Campos. Both are rated B prospects by Sickels, so I guess we could call that a wash.
Votto is a proven big leaguer, and that counts for something. But Montero has the potential to be better than Votto. He’s cheap. And he’s still very young. He OPS’d .996 in the big leagues, and he’s barely old enough to celebrate postseason victories with champagne instead of sparkling grade juice. Joey was OPSing .755 in A-ball at that age.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Montero has the potential to be better than Votto in the same way that a lot of highly touted prospects do.
Votto is as close to guaranteed 5-6 win player as you’re going to find right now (Pujols excepted). How many minor leaguers would anyone ever project to be that good? Strasburg a couple years ago? Harper? Trout? I struggle to think of any past these guys.
What are the range of WAR outcomes for Montero? It has to be all over the board, 1-8? 5 is probably where I would estimate his peak WAR. However, it’ll be tough for him to ever be worth 5 wins if a) he ends up DHing or b) his defense really is that poor. The advantage for Montero is that he has 6 years of control, but to say that Montero is a comparable player is stretching the truth, in my opinion.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Votto is a sure thing
Montero has the potential to be incredible, but it’s still just potential. I think it evens out.
But I’m admittedly not objective. I really liked Montero. I’ve been following him since he was signed at age 16. I’m crushed that the Yankees have traded him. I know it’s a good deal for them. They have some holes to fill now, but they’ll probably just sign Prince Fielder to DH or something, and eventually get ahold of Mauer or Wieters or Posey or heck, maybe Grandal if Romine doesn’t work out (and it doesn’t look like he’s going to).
I really wanted to see Montero as Yankee, though, mashing them out to right center.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Why do the Yankees need to sign a DH?
They should be able to shuffle ARod, Jeter, and Teixeira in that slot over the next few years to keep those guys rested and healthy. Plus, they would save a roster spot, too.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't think the Yankees will be in the market for a DH until
ARod is off the books. They are also trying to not increase payroll to remain under the luxury tax threshold.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
not sure I buy that payroll story
I know that’s what they were claiming. But they tried to trade for Felix Hernandez, and did sign Hiroki Kuroda.
If A-Rod can’t play 3B every day, they need a third baseman. I wonder if they’d be interested in Frazier? He’s from the area, and the Sinatra thing would go over well.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
they could
And maybe they will.
But they like to have a DH who’s not in the regular lineup. They have some roster spots to fill, what with Posada and now Montero gone.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Why would they do that though?
If they sign someone like Prince Fielder it fills up DH and first base between Fielder and Teixeira. This would block DH for ARod and Jeter. They would be much better off signing a third baseman who can play third on the days ARod DHs.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
They do have Chavez
But penciling him in for 80 games at third would be. . . not smart
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
Isn't he actually a free agent?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
He's not listed under New York on Cot's
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
they'd do it to get a big bat
Viewed as essential in the AL East.
Jeter is a lousy DH. He has a nice bat for a SS, but a pretty bad one for a DH. I don’t know what they’re going to do with him when he can no longer play SS.
I’m sure if they could find a Prince Fielder type who could play 3B, they would sign him. But there aren’t a lot of power-hitting third basemen looking for jobs right now.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Jeter would only DH about 20 games per year in my plan
Give Teixeira 20
Give ARod 40
Give Granderson, Martin, Swisher, etc some days at DH to rest them
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
They have Andruw Jones, too, right?
He still mashes lefties
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
FanGraphs having the same discussion
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/yankees-not-necessarily-in-market-for-dh/
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Jorge Vazquez, eh?
He certainly had power in AAA. He homered two days in a row against Louisville. Not sure it would translate to the big leagues, though, and it’s not really the Yankee way to do things.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Ooh, Carlos Pena wouldn't be a bad idea
He’d be pretty cheap and you could still put ARod et al in the 10 spot when someone needs rest
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever Joey was doing at that age
He’s an MVP at this age. He’s about as sure as it gets to put up more than 10 WAR over the next two seasons.
As for Montero, he looks like an elite bat if he’s a catcher, but merely a good one if he’s a 1B. Clearly, the M’s are banking on him stay at catcher. I guess we’ll see.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
If his defense is as bad as advertised it would probably even kill his value as a catcher.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
But Mike Piazza started 1600 games at catcher.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he was supposed to be even worse than that.
In all fairness to Piazza though, he was average at good at the other parts of being a catcher (blocking the plate, quickness behind the plate, handled pitchers ok), but he just had that terribly slow release. Also, Piazza played at a time where the running game was a smaller part of the game than it is now.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
You really think the Mariners are expecting him to stay at catcher?
I think what they gave up for him is worth it even if he becomes a first baseman. If he stays at catcher, they got a bargain.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Hmm, you must be an enormous believer in Montero
please compare his bat to an established Major Leaguer.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Looking at his minor league line
It looks like he has a lot of good tools, but no great ones. He hits for good average, has good discipline, good power…but none are elite. He’s still young, and he could develop more power, which I think many people are projecting, but I think you could compare him to Jay Bruce. Bruce showed more power, and at a younger age, but he’s also a plus defender in RF. Montero looks like he’s either going to be a bad defensive catcher or an average defensive 1B.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
To me, it looks like he has a bat about (or not quite) as good as Billy Butler
Good power, low strikeout rate (I wouldn’t call it discipline), not a lot of patience.
I don’t think he has the power potential of Jay Bruce. I do think he could be just as good a hitter or better though.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Do you think he's comparable to Joey Votto?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so either, but Bubba thinks they're about the same apparently
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
and a good player.
The M’s have Smoak, who could certainly become fantastic. I’m sure they’ll give Montero every shot at C, but it’s not a bad problem in the AL to have two Smoaks.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
The Yossiarian strategy
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
by DerekH91 on Jan 14, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Pineda is what, a 3.5 WAR player?
So you need Montero to be Mark Teixeira for this deal to even out.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
But won't Jesus be blocked by Smoak at 1B?
The consensus I’ve been seeing is that, if he can’t stick at catcher, he’ll end up DH’ing. That lowers his value even more.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Smoak has nearly two seasons in the bigs so far
and he’s a disappointment, They could be giving up on him.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
There are some BABIP issues there if you think that changes anything
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I would say "young" not "disappointment"
He’s comfortably in the Wallace-Butler continuum.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I dunno
Almost two full seasons and his career OPS is only .701. He has a strong walk rate and a good ISO, but he has certainly not met expectations so far. And he’s 25.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm honestly not high on any of these 3 players.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought he would DH, but BubbaFan seems to think that he'll play first base
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
then of course he's gonna play 1B
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Smoak has just been average so far, though
He had a really good April last year, then his dad died, and he understandably didn’t finish well
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
Damn, what is it with young first basemen and the deaths of their fathers?
That really sucks.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
If only Prince Fielder was so lucky
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
That's cold
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe, but he really doesn't like his father
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I know, but it was still cold
I’m not angry or anything, so don’t take this the wrong way
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of fat people
hmmmm…catchy…maybe NPR would hire me to host a show by that name…
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
by Madville on Jan 14, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Remember when Prince won the HR Derby?
Some idiot reporter asked him if he got any advice from his father. His response was an uncomfortable “uh, no. Next question.”
I think Cecil stole a bunch of money from him. He probably does wish he was fatherless.
darthmom: It's like sabremetrics, but for boobs.
"Wait, when your father dies, you don't become king?"
“I am soooo outta here.”
—Mrs. Fielder
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
He's an elite bat at any position
Career line of .308/.366/.501 and he was young at every level.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
But if he's at 1B or DH, he has to hit like that
to provide above average value. David Ortiz hit better than that last year and he was still only a 4 WAR player. Ortiz obviously plays in friendly park and Montero is playing in Yellowstone Park, but Montero doesn’t project to be a 5-6 WAR player like BubbaFan was suggesting.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not responding to that conversation
just to the notion that his bat is only elite if he’s a catcher. That’s not true.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Oh, I misunderstood.
My apologies.
I agree that if he hit’s like that he’ll be valuable anywhere.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Expanding
I’m not equating him to anyone that’s established because we all know that he still has to develop, but I don’t buy the “he has to stick at catcher to be great” stuff. His bat will play everywhere. There’s a reason teams have been trying to get this guy from the Yankees for the past 2 years. Goldstein says that scouts rate his bat potential as a 70 for hitting and a 70 for power.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
An .867 OPS is elite now?
Maybe it’s just semantics, but I don’t consider that “elite”.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
For someone that is 21?
Also, number of players with an .850+ OPS in the majors last year was 33. Not sure what your definition of elite is, but I’d very much say that .867 is elite (and yes, I know it’s the minors, blah blah blah)
Obviously he’s not going to do that next season, but I think you’re underestimating how good of a hitter he is. If he was with the Reds, people would be begging for him to learn to play LF.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I think this all started, because I made a half-serious
jab at Dave Cameron’s trade proposal from a month ago. I haven’t investigated it thoroughly, but it looks to me as if the final price for Pineda was lower than what Cameron thought.
And don’t get me wrong, I really do like Dave Cameron, but he is a bit of a homer.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
Cameron’s proposal had gone to plaid.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Yeah, I guess it's just semantics
I wouldn’t say a top 30 bat, at 1B or DH, is elite.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
How many of the top 30 hitters in baseball are 1B or DH?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Luckily for us, Fangraphs sorts its leaderboards into pages of 30, so
I sorted all player by wRC+ over the past 3 years. 1500 PA min.
12 are predominately 1B/DH if you count Lance Berkman as 1B/DH
8 are corner outfielders.
3 third basemen.
3 second basemen.
2 shortstops.
1 centerfielder (McCutchen).
1 catcher (Mauer).
Other note of interest:
6 of the top 10 are first basemen.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
why does positions matter?
A top 30 bat is a top 30 bat. There were 12 teams last year that didn’t have a top 30 bat. Do you think they’d care where he played?
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
People care where a bat plays for obvious reasons
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
explain it to me then, because it doesn't seem obvious to me
If I’ve got a chance to acquire an elite bat and I don’t have an elite bat already, why should I care what position I have to play him at (assuming he can play any position)?
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Because Alex Avila is worth more than Paul Konerko
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 15, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
We're not talking about value
We’re talking about elite bats. If a player is a top 30 hitter (and I’m not saying Montero is a top 30 hitter right now, but I think he will be eventually), it doesn’t matter where he plays, he’s an elite bat. If your team does not have a great hitter, you will take one wherever you can get one.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
You would rather this hypothetical elite bat play SS than 1B
I am sure you understand why, Slyde. Obviously, you will acquire an elite bat at whatever position you can get him, if you need the bat. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter what position he plays.
By extension of your earlier argument, if you get a top-200 bat, why does it matter what position he plays? Top-200 is top-200. A top-200 bat looks pretty crappy at 1B, but pretty sweet at catcher.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
"Obviously, you will acquire an elite bat at whatever position you can get him, if you need the bat."
This is precisely my point. An elite bat is an elite bat. It doesn’t matter where he plays.
And if your team doesn’t have a top 200 bat, then yeah, it doesn’t matter where he plays when you acquire him. But a top 200 bat is not an elite bat, which is the discussion we are having.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Welp, we just disagree then
if Montero were a SS, the Mariners would have to pay a much higher price to get him. I guess it depends on just what you mean by “it doesn’t matter where he plays.”
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Right
For argument’s sake, I’ll concede Slyde’s point about elite bats. But even given that, evaluating the trade is very different depending on whether Montero is an elite bat at C or an elite bat at 1B. If he maintains a career OPS of .867 and catches for 10 seasons, he’ll be a Hall of Famer. If he does that as a 1B and DH, he’ll make a few All-Star teams.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 15, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Right
I wasn’t evaluating the trade. I was just disagreeing with your statement that he wasn’t an elite bat unless he played catcher. Speaking strictly of his bat, it looks like he will be an elite hitter. How that should be valued definitely depends on where he plays.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Gotcha
As I suspected, it was all a matter of semantics.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 15, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
someone was wrong on the internet?
no way..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 15, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
well, it was surprising since you weren't involved in the conversation
#ohsnap
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
i know, right?
2012, the year I’m purposely wrong to help others feel better about themselves
you’re all welcome
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 15, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
My semantics just cupped a fart in its hand and held it over your nose and mouth
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 15, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Chuck is e^x
No matter how derivative he gets, he never goes away.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
by bbjones on Jan 15, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
e to the x
sounds like the start of a rap song
by 'tHan on Jan 15, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
that’s why he’s integral to this community
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
even though his value is always increasing
if you look closely, everything is similar to what it used to be.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Well this is totally different than what it seemed like you were saying!
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Anyone see the NY Cosmos documentary on Netflix?
Pretty damn interesting. Matt Dillon does a surprisingly adequate job as narrator.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
I've seen it
It’s excellent
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Jan 14, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
I will check that out. Thanks for the tip and...
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 14, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At a rest area between St. Louis and Crolferville, MO.
I tried to hold my breath while driving through St. Louis, but all that did was make me fart.
That’s what you get, you filthy cards!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 14, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions
This shoulda been a FanShot.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 14, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
x
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 14, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I hope this doesn't come off as spammy (or even tofu)
Old Time Family Baseball is doing a 24-hr blog-a-thon raising money for Doctors Without Borders. They are posting every half hour for 24 hours and accepting donations for a very worthy cause.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Alfonso Soriano
the Cubs want to trade him. That they’re willing to pay most of the $54 million he’s owed.
What a turrible contract that was.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Downright awful
one of the worst ever, probably
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Yes, that's certainly in the discussion
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I watched a Bleacher Report video that listed..
1. A-Rod
2. Wells
3. FIggins
4. Zito
5. Soriano
6. Bay
Or something like that.
Note: these are current crappyawfulturrible contracts. Not necesarily all-time crappyawfulturrible.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 15, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Hampton would be on that one.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 16, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
How much of the $54M do you think the Cubs eat?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think they would eat about $38-40 million
if they weren’t getting anything back in return.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Is he worth 3/$16M to anyone?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
He's about a 1-win player at this point, so probably not
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
Well, if was worth 1.5 in the first, 1 in the second, and 0.5 in the third
It would be a fair deal, more or less
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
If he could DH
I think he could safely be a 1.5-2 WAR guy over the course of 3 years. His bat isn’t too bad yet.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I'm assuming you mean 1.5 WAR/yr, is this correct?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Center for Land Use Interpretation!
How good of you.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 14, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
this is
a free weekend at national parks.
Not going to Memphis, but I might go to Pennsylvania. This is the time of year when bald eagles come down from the Great White North. Though it’s been so warm this year, they might have stayed in Canada.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I saw a bald eagle in Northern Virginia last month, so maybe you will luck out.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 14, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Very cool!
Your photos are really nice.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 15, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
BFD
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 15, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bubbafan, that's a nice shot of an airborne American icon. Well done.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 15, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That's Barry flipping off Ozzie Smith
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Jan 15, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm in.
Though I’d never want to live there again, I still like to visit. Saw “White Christmas” at the Orpheum this past November.
by Howie Feltersnatch on Jan 15, 2012 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
since no one else has made one
I put up a football thread HERE.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Didn't see this coming at all
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
This was a little over a month ago. Feels like forever.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:37 PM EST reply actions
Shameless self plug!
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, there's plenty of shame
I take back everything I said about ol’ Walter. He kicked this winter’s ass.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just giving ya grief
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I figured
I was just perusing the archives here and came across that. It’s really hard to believe that “The Reds have no money and are talking to no one” was t-shirt material just one month ago.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I like how the Latos news was broken in that trade
Seems appropriate.
And holy shit, you had a 14-rec’d comment in that thread. All time high for you?
The secret, is to hit the computer with a hammer
I think I had a 20-rec comment back in the day
Not that I’m counting, or anything…
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 14, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I said: "People will be complaining when he trades Alonso, Grandal, & Wood for Shields."
Obviously I meant “Alonso, Grandal, & Wood plus 4 others for Latos & Marshall”
Damnit, why can’t we edit comments for a month ago???
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Mods can though, right?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
We can't edit comments
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Jan 15, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
they just have the all-mighty delete button!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 15, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
"Damnit, why can’t we edit comments for a month ago???"
Heheheh.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
wow I am good at predicting the future
in a scrambled thought/nostradomas sort of way.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 15, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
I saw that Fay tweeted that he gives the Reds a B for their offseason moves
This leads me to wonder what on earth Walt would have to do to get an A?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
Yeah, I definitely overlooked that. Silly me!
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
He elaborated on that, I think in the Q&A he posted on the blog.
He said that the B was because of the cost of the moves (in prospects), not the players they gained. I’m not sure I agree, but I can see the point.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 14, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, I see where he's coming from, but what did he expect?
Aces are expensive, and he got bullpen help on the cheap. I guess I would say A- for now, but if Walt fixes the left field issue then I think it’s as good of an offseason as you can realistically expect. I saw on the blog he blew off the other NL central teams, but Chicago has had a good winter. Theo isn’t trying to contend this year, but he made some nice moves as well and I think Chicago at least rates a mention.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 14, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call Marshall "cheap"
I’m fine with the deal, but giving up Wood wasn’t cheap.
I’d say it’s a little premature to grade because he could really make a boneheaded move to get another bat or two. My premature grade would be between a B and a B+. He could get to an A- with a smart bat addition, but based on the names being thrown around, it’ll likely max out at a B+.
I’m excited by the moves and I think he’s done a fantastic job to fix the problems for 2012, but I do think he may have given up too much to warrant an A. If Marshall signs a reasonable extension (2-3yrs, $5-6M/yr), I may reconsider that stance. Otherwise, I’m afraid that the team will be shuffling a lot next off-season to fill holes and they may not have the pieces they need to do it anymore.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I agree, right now it's somwhere between A- and B+
I don’t quite wanna give him an A, but it’s better than a B.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
That is really a ridiculous grade.
Two big trades and a huge signing. Get an A+ everytime.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 15, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Apparently when I'm nearly blackout drunk
I get really smooth. I was talking to the girl I dated/still like about the new guy she likes and trying to help her figure him out and somehow I ended up being the one that woke up the next morning in her bed.
by crolfer on Jan 15, 2012 8:09 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Hahaha, good story, crolfs.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jan 15, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
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