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What Howie Kendrick's extension means for Brandon Phillips

Over the weekend, the Angels and Howie Kendrick reportedly hammered out a contract extension for four years and $33.5 mil. The deal buys out Kendrick's final arbitration year, as well as three free agent years. If I had to guess, I would assume the payment outlay is something like $5.5/7.5/9/11 plus a buyout on an option year or something like that. I'm sure the details will surface over the next few days. The most important thing though is that the established value of just over $8 mil per year, and around $9.5 mil for his free agent seasons. It's just shy of the four year, $38.5 mil deal Rickie Weeks signed last winter. Regardless of what the actual numbers are, the contract will likely have a serious impact on the ongoing Brandon Phillips contract negotiations.

Kendrick and Phillips are actually fairly similar hitters over their careers. Take a look:

PAs BB% K% AVG OBP SLG wRC+ OPS+
Phillips 4365 6.0 14.3 .272 .322 .434 96 96
Kendrick 2638 4.2 16.9 .292 .329 .434 104 105

A few things that stand out: most obvious is the fact that Phillips has more than 2.5 full seasons' worth of PAs over Kendrick at this point. This is in part due to the fact that Phillips is older (he'll be 31 this season, Kendrick will be 28), but it's worth mentioning that Phillips didn't play his way into the lineup until he was 25, while Kendrick was a starter at 23. But also, they are very different players in terms of durability. Kendrick has struggled over his five seasons to stay on the field, only playing in more than 105 games just twice (his two most recent seasons). Phillips is the picture of consistency though, playing in more than 140 games each of the last six seasons. So while Kendrick may have the advantage in youth, Phillips mitigates that with a much better health history.

The most striking thing to me is their nearly identical slash lines. Their SLG numbers are exactly the same, and Kendrick holds a seven point advantage in OBP. Their park-adjusted stats show just how much home park can affect a hitter. Kendrick gets a boost for playing in pitcher-friendly Anaheim while Phillips gets knocked for GABP. The difference in parks adds up to an eight or nine point difference in their park-adjusted rate stats, depending on which one you prefer. Gnarly, dude.

Star-divide

One stat I purposely left off the above graph is perhaps the most critical in making projections for these guys. As you can see, Kendrick hardly ever walks, so his offensive value is derived almost exclusively from his ability to hit the ball with some pop and use his speed. His career BABIP is an impressive .339. Phillips', on the other hand, walks a bit more (though still not much) and strikes out less. But his BABIP is a league-averageish .292. It seems the Angels took this into account during their contract negotiations, as a guy with Kendrick's offensive profile and injury history is not likely to age all that well. Considering the fact that Phillips is a few years older, even with his clean injury history, I'd rate their Cliff Factor (or their likelihood of steep and rapid decline) as roughly the same, or perhaps a bit in BP's favor.

It would be foolish to overlook their defense. Here's what the numbers say:

UZR DRS TZL FSR
Phillips 55.8 26 -49.1 33
Kendrick 23 21 3.3 -1


One of the most interesting phenomena (to me, anyway) in advance statistics is the fact that Total Zone thinks Brandon Phillips is a Total Bum. Every other data set agrees with the general public, pro scouts, and his peers that he is one of the elite defensive infielders in the game today. As for Kendrick, these are just his numbers at 2B. His versatility is an asset worth mentioning, as he has also played a not-insignificant number of innings at 1B and LF. But the takeaway here is that he is no slouch himself in the field. He doesn't have the Gold Gloves that BP has, but I think it's safe to say he's a plus defensive 2B. Whatever advantage BP has with the glove is probably mitigated by Kendrick's advantage with the bat. In short, these guys are about even.

So now that we've established that these guys are about equally valuable, let's discuss money. The extension that Kendrick signed over the weekend is reported to be for four years and $33.5 mil. That is less than the numbers that have been floating around the BP extension talks, even considering that Kendrick's first year of his extension is his last year of arbitration. I can't remember where I read it (and can't seem to find it), but I recall that Phillips has been asking for something in between the Weeks deal and the Uggla deal. This deal for Kendrick comes in even lower than the Weeks endpoint. Phillips made $11.5 mil last year and will make $12 mil this coming season. One can assume that he's looking for something more along the lines of the ~$12 mil he's been making and what Dan Uggla will make over the life of his extension (five years, $62 mil), considering he's coming off a career year where he started the All-Star Game and won both the Gold Glove and the Silver Slugger. Hell, he could even make the case that he deserves a raise.

It's safe to assume though that the Reds will use this Kendrick contract to try and gain some leverage. The 2B market has evolved over the past year and so any extension should reflect that. If the deal is to be somewhere between Weeks and Uggla, the Reds could use Kendrick to try and push the needle closer to Weeks. I think it's bad news for those who are rooting for a deal to get done. Phillips isn't going to give the Reds what he sees as a homeboy discount, and the Reds will probably be less willing to stretch to meet his demands. All in all, I still think the will to get a deal done is there for both sides, but the economics just got more complicated.

Comment 546 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Moar thredz?!

I’ve got a lot of catching up to do.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions  

Someone tell me if I've missed anything good in the football threads because they're in the back of my pantry and I don't know if i'll ever get to 'em.

Like a couple of cans of water chestnuts. Just waiting for a church’s food drive.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

hA!

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually threw away a can of pears recently

They had been in the back of the pantry so long they had expired. Canned pears. Expired!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

After the apocalypse..

two cans of pears could be enough to influence several thousand voters in South Carolina’s presidential primary.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

After the apocalypse?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

those left behind

will be hungry for fruit

Jack McKeon on 2000 Reds "We have more MRI's than RBI's on this club."

by dunnateher on Jan 10, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Funny, my first thought when I saw Uggla's contract numbers (thanks, Chuck!) was, "Damn, Dan Uggla is a wealthy wealthy man."

I know he’s a good baseball player but geez Louise that’s a lot of money for Dan Uggla, no?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

30+ home runs five straight years, and the deal ends after his age 35 season

$13 million/year for the next four years. BP is getting $12 million next year. Over the last five years Uggla has 13.4 WAR, BP has 11.7.

Not terribly overpriced?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's a lot for a guy with a high Cliff Factor

On the WARs, I think the last three years are a much better representation than five. Players develop and age so much that they’re rarely who they were five years ago. BP’s a good example – he’s got less power and speed now, but commands the strike zone better. I think three years does the best job of using the most relevant data while still accumulating a large enough sample size. They’re about even in bWAR during that time (9-8 BP), but Phillips has the fWAR advantage (14-10).

Atlanta should be very worried about Uggla. Last year might have been a BABIP-driven slump, or it could be the start of steep decline for powerful but slow player. Defensively he’s always looked bad at second, and the numbers support that. It also can’t help all those young pitchers they have to man a statue at second. But they’re kinda stuck with him there with Freeman at 1B, unless Uggla’s arm is strong enough to play in the outfield.

by ken on Jan 10, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

nope, shouldn't extend him

hopefully we learned from the Arroyo extension

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Does Uggla have the footspeed for left field?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Without looking, I'm gonna say no

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Really like BP

But there isn’t a good reason for the Reds to extend him. He is on the wrong side of his prime to be handing out market rate deals. I like him and appreciate his value…. just don’t think it makes sense for the Reds to do such a deal.

by dougdirt on Jan 10, 2012 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

indeed

I think a BP extension is bad idea jeans.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

To te same point, however

Now that Kendrick is off the market, if we let BP go, who the hell plays 2B on our 2013 World Series team? He best free agent available (non BP edition) would be Kelly Johnson (yuck), and I doubt Hank Rod is ready yet.

Whatchagonnadu?

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

did you not see the ZIPS projections?!?

Hank Rod would hit .279 in the majors this year and his #1 comp is Robin Yount!

But seriously, I don’t know. It’s a bit of a Catch-22…

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, Hank-Rod is a good prospect, no question about it

But my baseball people love Cord Phelps’ bat. They keep saying “Cord Phelps’ bat! Cord Phelps’ bat!”

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

no Kipnis?

He’s from my area code.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

But

could the money that would be used for Phillips be better directed some place else.

Maybe at third, left, or a starting pitcher.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

plus one

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

and then

some

Jack McKeon on 2000 Reds "We have more MRI's than RBI's on this club."

by dunnateher on Jan 10, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, this

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Know what's awesome?

Watching Dr. Who on your king size bed in your new apartment. Damn right.

by crolfer on Jan 10, 2012 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

This one

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuck!

This one, but up here instead of down there!

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they definitely added some sex appeal to the new show

But I liked the old show. Get your sex appeal out of my sci/fi, damnit!

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't MIND the sex appeal so much, but I watched a couple episodes, and the plots were... really dumb.

I remember liking the Tom Baker episodes when I saw them, but I don’t remember much else. Perhaps I’m just pickier now.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I like a lot of British shows, but they have never been very good at sci-fi. I guess they don’t have enough of the right kind of nerds there.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It's been there for years. You just had to look a little harder.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh man... I had the pre-adolescent hots for her

She made me feel funny, but I didn’t know why.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Those weren't 'the hots.'

When you’re thirteen they’re called ‘the warmsies.’

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

insert pic

of Mike Seaver’s bestie

Jack McKeon on 2000 Reds "We have more MRI's than RBI's on this club."

by dunnateher on Jan 10, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Wilma was soooo hot...

But I’m more of a Princess Ardala kinda guy:

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 10, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

You're so Hollywood, Pete.

You would go for the evil royalty. Scantily-clad and vain like a bitch, she who sexually extorts to get the Buck she wants.

Out here in the Midwest, we prefer to have on our arms around the gals who have modestly and honestly worked their way up to the rank of colonel and done so with some top-notch fighter-pilotin.’ While wearing brightly-colored spandex bodysuits.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I loved Ardala because she was buxom and horny.

I was in puberty. Horny gal won.

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 11, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

dang

You have a king size bed in your first apartment? I had a twin.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You have a twin sister?

thatz hawt

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 10, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm currently rolling with an aerobed for the next 4 months, holla

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Once you've had back..

pain like that you’ll never go back

to sleeping on one again.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a great mattress but it wasn't worth moving for 4 months

moving a mattress and box springs is the pits.

Good news is that this is easily the best air mattress I’ve ever slept on. It’s remarkably firm.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You missed a heck of a burger tonight

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought you guys went on Wednesday nights?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You thought incorrectly

Sounds like jch dropped the ball

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he didn't

I didn’t email him til I got home tonight. This one’s on me.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Next time, brother

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you guys ever do it on a weekend?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Not usually, but sometimes

Weeknights tend to work best for most of us

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll fit a stop in

I was just curious, because I could probably make most RR weekend meetups

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Our annual Game 2 meetup is a weekend this year

(yes, I’m posting this to remind everyone to start getting plans for game 2 together)

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it a saturday night?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

It is indeed

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn, I'm gonna try to do that

The last weeks of April I’m 100% free so I’m going to try to go to every home game before I leave

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Saturday night?

Look out.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

OK

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 12, 2012 3:04 AM EST up reply actions  

congrats on your first apt ....

… which side of town are you on now?

Individuality: Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.

by joshuar9476 on Jan 10, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Always go with the two full size beds over a queen

One to sleep in, one to play in.

Oh wait, apartment not hotel room.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

the real way to do it is have 2 bedrooms in an apartment

1 for sleeping, 1 for whatever the Hell else it is you wanna do

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course BP stays healthy.

In the offseason he goes into #ALTEREDBEAST mode.

#BAOW

Born Small... Now Huge... Winning... Bring it..!

by BomerHailey on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

that's not a Cubs shirt, by the way

it’s the All-Star Game shirt that happened to be hosted at Wrigley that year

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

NICE!

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 10, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

It's driving me out of my mind

That’s why it’s hard for me to find
Can’t get it out of my head
Miss her, kiss, her love her
Wrong move, you’re dead

This was my favorite song in 5th grade.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

There are kids that weren't born when that album came out that are legally able to drink, shit

Euthanize me now.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Somebody explain to crolfer what a cassette single was.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I just got rid of my truck that only played cassette tapes.

It was a sad day when that old bitch died.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

My car still has it!

11 years, 140,00 miles, and still truckin’

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

God....I've put 90,000 miles on my car in 3.5 years

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

When I was home over Christmas

My 18 year old sister was wearing a t-shirt with a cassette tape on it and the words “Old School”. And it wasn’t ironic.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

how old is your car?

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 11, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

they all look alike.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

arsonist

I should flag this

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 10, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

what is it

with BP and Total Zone? I mean, I could see it showing him being not as good as UZR, or even just average. But how does it give him that terrible, horrible, gawd-awful ranking?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

I wish I understood the TZ ratings better

I know that their used to be problems with fielding data because there were two sources on batted balls – BIS and Elias (or was one of them STATS?). Not sure if that’s still the case.

Looking at the raw numbers, BP gets to more balls than Kendrick. BP’s had a range factor per nine at 4.8 the past three years. Kendrick has been below that, and in the 4.5’s the past two years. That could be skewed if the Reds had a stellar pitching staff that induced a ton of grounders, but that hasn’t been the case. I would think that Kendrick gets more opportunities simply because he’s playing in the DH league, where there’s more scoring and therefore more times the opponent is up to bat.

by ken on Jan 10, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Defensive metrics are dumb.

If they don’t agree with each other, how can we trust them?

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

what are they measuring

that BP’s so bad at?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure

I don’t know what the source of current day TZ stats are, but I know old TZ stuff is based off of retrosheet event files. It’s possible that the formula doesn’t properly account for something in the data relative to GABP. It’s possible it doesn’t handle BP’s style well. It’s also possible that it sees something we don’t (though in this case I’d guess that’s not true).

The biggest downfall of defensive stats right now is that they are manually scored. That means that hit location, batted ball type/speed, and the like are all subjective. It could be as simple as the fact that whoever logs data in Cincinnati for TZ has a bad view of 2B from their seat. This doesn’t mean we should dismiss defensive metrics altogether. But it does require us to have a discerning eye.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 10, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

Well, if it’s something to do with GABP or where the data logger sits, it should show up for other players playing 2B for Cincinnati. Though BP’s in the lineup so much, the sample size would be really tiny.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Trust me.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Jan 11, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for this, CS.

This post taught me that Howie Kendrick and Kendry Morales are indeed two different people.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

That's Kendrys Morales

He hates it when people mess that up.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jan 10, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

What kinda Gaylord names his son Kendrys

But at least his name isn’t Munchie Legos.

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

What a tease!

I just drove over the Suspension bridge, and the stadium scoreboard was on with lineups and everything. It had BP’s picture on there as if he were up to bat. With how nice and sunny it is, seeing that made me think for half a second that there was a game going on.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions  

lineups?

Who were the Reds playing?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I couldn't read it because I was driving, and couldn't stop on the bridge.

But, the opposing team’s background color was royal blue.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Cubbies?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

or the Dodgers

I’m tempted to walk down and see exactly what it says, just out of curiosity. But I’m also feeling lazy…

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

do it!

Take a photo! I wanna know if Heisey or Cozart is in the 2-hole.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hanigan

in the poo hole

Jack McKeon on 2000 Reds "We have more MRI's than RBI's on this club."

by dunnateher on Jan 10, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

too slow

He’ll clog the bases!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

just walked down

and the screen was off
#dang

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously, you couldn't risk the injury...

But that would be fantastic if the Reds were to see a good 3 or 4 days listed in the 10-day forecast during the winter and get as many current and former Reds together for a little exhibition with $5 General Admission tickets.

by Nasty N8 on Jan 10, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Have a spare bike?

Why not donate it for a tax write off for next tax season! So I just joined a bike Co-Op and wanted to share the information with anyone who might want to drop off a bike.

As a member, I will rebuild your donation with other parts in our large library of odds and ends to complete a bike that will go to a child or adult that needs it. Want more information? Visit http://mobobicyclecoop.org/

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 4:29 PM EST reply actions  

speaking of Sammy,

see that LeCure thinks he’ll be besties with LaTos?

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You're amazing.

It took you six minutes to come up with what would have taken me at least sixty.

If I had gotten there at all. (Lord knows I would have tried all day to come up with it.)

Rec’d.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

/head nod

/wink

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

So I would think that this makes it more likely that BP and the Reds get something done?

Seems like with a comparable contract set, BP will have to decide whether he wants to lower his salary expectations to something similar to Kendrick OR test the free agent markets.

by Nasty N8 on Jan 10, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

via teh Fay

more info on Reds Caravan.

The Southern Tour stops in West Virginia, Ohio and Kentucky and features Hall of Fame broadcaster Marty Brennaman, All-Star second baseman Brandon Phillips, Assistant General Manager Bob Miller, broadcaster and former pitcher Chris Welsh, Reds Hall of Famer Lee May, minor league catcher Tucker Barnhart and mascot Gapper.

The Northern Tour stops in Ohio and West Virginia and features broadcaster Thom Brennaman, catcher Devin Mesoraco, President of Baseball Operations and General Manager Walt Jocketty, Reds COO Phil Castellini, Reds Hall of Famer Tom Browning, minor league outfielder Ryan LaMarre and mascot Mr. Redlegs.

The Western Tour stops in Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky and features broadcaster Jim Kelch, broadcaster and former pitcher Jeff Brantley, Manager Dusty Baker, infielder Todd Frazier, 2011 minor league Player of the Year Billy Hamilton, VP of Baseball Operations Dick Williams and mascot Rosie Red.

The Reds newest mascot Mr. Red will make special appearances at selected stops, including Huntington, Charleston, Parkersburg, Columbus and Louisville. Pitcher Nick Masset and Reds CEO Bob Castellini will also appear at selected stops, to be announced at a later date.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

We have another new mascot?

This is why we don’t have any money to go after high-priced free agents!

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Jan 10, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Mr. Red's just the rebirth of an old mascot.

I suspect someone just found the old costume in a box that hadn’t been unpacked from Riverfront yet.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It looks a lot worse than the old Mr. Red

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

And there are surely more exciting surprises for the kids in that dusty storage closet.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

More like the After-birth...

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 12, 2012 3:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly one current reds established ballplayer is participating

Kudos to BP

Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today

by obc2 on Jan 10, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Way to shit all over Nick Masset.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder how they decide

who goes on the tour. I doubt they invite everyone.

Though it seems like Todd Frazier is there every year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe they ask for volunteers.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I could believe that of the big league players

But they must pick players to invite from the farm.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 10, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd bet that they haven't asked Votto so that they play that card when it comes time to negotiate.

“C’mon, Joe, we never asked you to do the Caravan. That’s gotta be good for something, right?”

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

He said established

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 10, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt you know what I'm talking about,

but when I see “#12 Prospect Stetson” in your sig, I get very happy, and then immediately very sad.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

*Stenson.

Man. I suck.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

If you glance it almost looks like "Stenson Alive"

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Seems like he goes every year.

BP is pretty amazing, when you really stop and think about it.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea what the "Shops at Lexington Center" are.

Anyone?

In any case, I’m going to be at these hypothetical shops on Jan. 29, and see BP! Yay!

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Ohhhhhh.

Do people… go there?

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I went last year and it was crazy packed

Get there early or they will cut you off.

And no, nobody goes there except for Cats games. I went to middle school about 2 blocks away and they would take us to the food court on special occasions. It would be a weekday afternoon, prime lunch hour, and the place was deserted.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

What kind of deserted?

Puddinged? Banana breaded? Ice cream sandwiched?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Bananas make me gag.

Zucchini and pumpkin breads are where it’s at.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Make you gag? How? They're delicious

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know. It's a reflex.

I physically just can’t eat bananas. I wish I could— they’re cheap and healthy and people say they’re delicious.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't care for bananas, either

I can eat them if I have to, but I prefer not to.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2012 6:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I used to hate them and gag like you say

but then a long time later after not trying them, I tried again and now I like them. They are healthy and the most convenient of all fruits!

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 11, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

plus they do wonders when you are hungover

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of them either

They’re either too green or too mushy. They’re only good for about two days.

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Jan 11, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You're supposed to chew them first

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Red Reporter Banana Bread:

Unfortunately, the nuts.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

DEM SHOES

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's my favorite Reds hat ever

I had one as a kid that I outgrew and it took me years to find another one that fits (I wear a size 8)

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

#3.

I don’t really wear hats anymore, but I’d love to get a new all-red one.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

All-red ones would be much, much better

if they’d lose the dropshadow and go with the 70s style all-red cap

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice, where'd you get it?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Koch's Sporting Goods on 4th St, downtown

New Era stopped making the drop-shadowless caps, but some company called Richardson makes them.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

That's very, very close to where I live

I passed it two or three times today.

I need to stop in and look around. I noticed they had a Chris Sabo jersey among other things.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Just off of 4th

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Sabo jersey = instant street cred.

I feel like driving up there just to check it out.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet the Richardson hats are cheaper than the New Era ones anyway

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yup.

Just the 1970 uniform in general. That’s what the Reds should wear.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I lost my all Reds hat in Mexico over the summer

Luckily I had an identical one at home to replace it!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:30 AM EST up reply actions  

My dad would probably wear an 8 1/8 or 8 1/4 if he wore ballcaps.

It’s just stupid how big his head is. He tried on one of my 8s one time and I thought the seams were going to bust.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a 7 3/4 I can squeeze into, maybe one even smaller, but

unless it’s an 8 it sorta just sits on my head and doesn’t come down on my head

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, if I am going to wear it everyday, a 7 3/4 will normally stretch out.

But the Hat I got married in was an 8, because it had to fit the first time.

by Eastwindquinn on Jan 10, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't wear baseball hats

I look utterly ridiculous. I have a Reds toboggan I can wear in the winter, but that’s it.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Two things

You got married while wearing a hat? How’d you pull that off?

Thanks to all of you for easing my insecurities about the size of my head. I feel like it’s a pea in a sea of watermelons now.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm 5'-1"

And wear a 7-1/8 or thereabouts.

Though I have thick hair. If I shaved my head bald, I’d need a much smaller hat.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

If I have any hair at all, an 8 is almost too snug.

#monsterhead

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Jan 11, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I have seen ZJiff in person and can verify his #monsterhead comment

It’s a cute #monsterhead though!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

aww

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh, yes!

My only hope is that they give him number 20 if he signs

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

awesome

a big contract to a closer who is over 30.

What could go wrong!?

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

to be fair, Heyman is reporting this

so there is a good chance it’s total horseshit

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

or the Reds may be trying to show Coco there are other options.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

this is also a good point

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

and Madson's a Boras guy,

so I’m not holding my breath

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

We do now!

Brackman is a Boras guy. The only other one I can remember from the past is Felipe Lopez.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

If you're Scott Boras and you represent Andrew Brackman..

..you probably just have Brackman hand the contract and a stamp to Walt.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Jon Heyman. MLBTR reported that he is actually Scott Boras’ butt puppet.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 10, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass that shit.

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your avatar, sir

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

My last avatar never got a comment in the 3 years I used it. But I’ll chalk this up to a small sample size, anyhow.

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in favor of it, assuming it isn't ridiculous

but you bring up a good point re: big contract for relievers. We’ve been bitching about Cordero’s contract hampering us since it was signed, but now we’re all gung-ho over Madson potentially signing a very similar deal. Madson is a better pitcher, but still, it’s interesting

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Reds had two less form the LeCure, Marshall, Bray, Masset, Ondrusek, and the Arredondo pool I would be in favor of it

I guess if Oswalt isn’t available, or they deem him too expensive, getting guys like Madson hedges their bets.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 10, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He's 31

And by all accounts, his price has significantly gone down. I’m not saying Walt won’t overpay for him, but he’s pretty clearly the best reliever on the market

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

#want

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Heyman is training to be a cage fighter

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Jan 10, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Butt Puppet! ®

I’m pretty sure I’m going to do that every time someone types Heyman.

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Perfect!

Now just sign Manny for LF and we’re ready to roll!

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Gross.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Even little stupid rumors about signing Madson does this to me.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Turn your wang orange?

You should probably get that checked out

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Ow.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet Bronson gets a spray tan for his piece

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

There are black and yellow 'caution' markings on it.

Yeah, ‘caution.’ No shit, caution.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

They're talking about Madson, not Wood

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What song is this?

I have been trying for two days to figure out what song this is.
Anyone know?
Or is it not a song, just some random riff?

Go Colts Dammit!

by Ram27 on Jan 10, 2012 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Fearless by Pink Floyd

Sick tune, at that.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

...good lord.

Thank you.

Go Colts Dammit!

by Ram27 on Jan 10, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

No problemo, amigo.

Check out the rest of the album while you’re at it.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Unrelated, but did anyone see youth reporter Meggie Zahneis's latest article?

An interview with Dusty about his players. My favorite part:

Drew Stubbs especially stood out to Baker as the resident bookworm. “He’s always doing a crossword puzzle or reading on his computer,” Baker said.

Only in the world of professional sports does “doing a crossword puzzle” equate to “bookworm.”

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 10:33 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

And you just KNOW that by "on the computer"

he means “crying over being ripped on RR.”

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 10, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Stubbs really is Willie Mays Hayes in the Major League movies

Runs like Mays
Hits like Hayes

.. except Hayes made more contact in those movies

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

He is also a Family Guy fan, and was supposedly president of some sort of college political club (not important which party, let's not get into that),

so Dusty may be onto something.

Also, I like what Meggie Zahneis has produced so far, it’s safe to say it’s better journalism than 90% of what else is out there.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 10, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

SHE'S SO PRECIOUS.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

If Meggie and Fay were in a spelling bee together... be honest...

Everyone here is taking Meggie, right?

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

And the points

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Jan 11, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed and agreed.

No disrespect to Stubbs— he may be crazy smart and a big reader. Just poking fun at the particular activities Dusty chose to highlight.

And I think Meggie’s doing great and love that MLB’s youth reporter is a Reds fan. A kid can get away with asking the more personal questions, which makes for fun interviews. And she’s a decent writer, too!

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I had no idea that was done by a kid until the byline.

I’m genuinely impressed.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 11, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Also makes me like Dusty more.

He’s just a nice guy, good-natured and a friendly person. He’s very unpretentious.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 11, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

this is not surprising at all

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 10:57 PM EST reply actions  

And now Heyman tweets they've reached an agreement.

No word on whether or not this affects our chances of bringing D-Train back.

by DocRam on Jan 10, 2012 11:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Marshall, D-Train, Madson sounds pretty good to me.

Also, I’m learning that when the Reds deny something vehemently, it’s completely true. When they are indifferent seeming, then it’s untrue.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, damn.

Because I haven’t heard anything from the team about Dontrelle. Does that mean they won’t be signing him?

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he'll change his mind.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This is awesome!!!

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Willis signed with

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Philly.

I think.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

How much more expensive could Oswalt be than Madson?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know, but I have a bad feeling about this.

I’d rather have Oswalt for 2/20 than Madson for 4/3x or whatever it’s going to cost.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet Madson is only a one year deal.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

You think he would take a one year deal and play the market again next year?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

he almost has to at this point

or become a setup man

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't have much choice.

The Reds were pretty much the only team that could use him. I’d bet on a 1 year $5-6 mil deal.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

$5-6MM sounds low

If it’s 1/$6M, then I’m all over this deal

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It does sound low.

But, think of it this way. He needs to be a closer. If he plans on testing the market again then he needs the saves. Otherwise it will lower his future earnings. Everyone else has a closer or would only sign him to set up man money. He is stuck in a bad spot.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I really can't believe it would be that low

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean it could be higher, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It could be $8,000,000 a year.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going to say 9-10MM

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we had enough freed up to spend $8,000,000.

That is why I went with that number. Plus, he still didn’t any one to give him that much money.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

It's in his best interest, given the market

It won’t be for more than 2 years, unless the Reds have completely lost their shit

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

We think this is really a 1-year window, right?

Or are they really going to let Votto walk for nothing? Or do they think he’ll re-sign? ? questionmark

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

The Votto window is effectively 2 years, I'd say

I think they’d risk letting him walk if they thought he’d sign long-term

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

BP interview

Here

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

MLBTR reporting that Madson is a Red

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Jan 10, 2012 11:13 PM EST reply actions  

Waaaaaaaiting......

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I hope it's not fake

because I already started my Ryan Madson tattoo

by Red_Poodle on Jan 10, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Make sure it's in color.


Those baby blues sure help his tigrmetrics.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

basically

the statistical measurement of hotness for a ballplayer.

by Red_Poodle on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Any reason why it’s called that?

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I learned to use the term in context

I wasn’t around for its inception to be honest

by Red_Poodle on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Rawr.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

wow, it's still around?

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 11, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

did you see this one??

this is a shot from a Phillies calendar (allegedly)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/FdVN9si5o2o/S-GOpg0NQI/AAAAAAAAALY/9oA7dZzjJ3A/s1600/Madson.JPG

I’m not IMG linking it because the file is too big

by Red_Poodle on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

holy cow

Why do the Reds not have calendars like this?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2012 6:49 AM EST up reply actions  

The one that I have has Edinson Volquez as Mr. January

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 11, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

definitely

If they want to raise some money for a LFer, common, sell calendars!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jan 11, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Marshall and Madson

M&M’s.

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:13 PM EST reply actions  

and Masset

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The Campbell's Soup Bullpen

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, this is getting unfairly overshadowed with the Madson rumors

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I googled "ma ma ma" and found

this song by the Electric Light Orchestra. Is it famous, people who know ANYTHING about music (which is to say, not me)?

Because throw Bray into the group, and Ma-Ma-Ma-Bill has a nice ring to it.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

yes!

awesome ELO song. very well done TFM!

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

replace Masset with Arredondo,

you have Do Ma Ma

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 11, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow

This is fairly awesome.

Two of the best relievers in the Majors are now Reds

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 11:18 PM EST reply actions  

Fucking put one up

I would be I’m realllllly apprehensive to do it until someone other than Heyman tweets this news

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

he already did

(that’s the joke)

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not on the front page

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I really wanna know what the terms are.

Walt better not have paid top dollar for a closer.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

Wait, is the only source still Heyman?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:21 PM EST reply actions  

That's what I said.

Won’t believe it until state media tells me it’s true.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm with you.

I’m actually hoping it’s not true.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't count on that.

It’s probably true. Hopefully it’s not a Boras contract.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The worst would be if the contract is similar to something that would have landed Oswalt or another mid-rotation

starter.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

On the other hand, the bullpen is now incredible.

Barring unforeseen meltdowns, the game is now 7 innings long for most offenses vs. the Reds. Maybe even 6, if you think Bray/Arredondo are still good.

I worry about the whole “we have 4 guys who are really good lefties or at getting lefties out” thing.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

We have to stop hoping that every Reds deal isn't true.

That’s the epitome of the defeatism we sometimes exhibit. Signing Ryan Madson isn’t a bad thing.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It it's a multi year deal with a high AAV, then that's a bad thing

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course we won't know until we know.

But given that they offered Coco one year at a much lower price than they initially offered, it seems safe to assume they were playing in a collapsed market.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

This is what I'm hoping.

The Reds probably only had 8 to spend, so that’s as much as it could be, right? Shocked Madson was forced into a 1-yr deal.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

An unforced error.

He had a 4/40 offer from the Phillies that he rejected, no? He and Coco both got burned by a bit of greediness.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

1 year, says Heyman.

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
hearing, madson deal is for 1 year. good deal for #reds. and gives madson chance to rack up saves for very good team.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:29 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

1 year, 1.5 million...

Walt pulls off a stunner

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you serious?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No, lol

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, because that would be Matt Moore/Evan Longoria team-friendly

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

A little concerned that, with the RP strategy, this is really a one-year window.

This is an 88-90 win team if they’re healthy, and they’ll need to catch some luck to do well in the playoffs if they make it there. Really seems like the plan is to trade Votto after next season.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I agree with you.

Even with Madson, I’m not convinced we’re a better team than St. Louis.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

If Madson or Marshall or Cueto or Latos go down...

if Devin sucks… if bla bla bla

can’t play if’s (though those are as likely as a pitcher getting hurt).

I dunno. It’ll be close. I think it’s a tossup.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

If both, then maybe

But if only one is injured they’ll just move Craig around and let sub fill the spot for awhile

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno, I'm not as high on Craig as others

Dude rocked a .344 BABIP last year. That’s gonna come down a little.

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right, but he ISO'd .240 and had a healthy LD%

Of course, he only had 219 PAs so that’s not much to work with

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

They lost their best player, manager, and pitching coach

that has to account for something, right?

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but they get Wainwright back

Craig will now be able to play full time, they signed Beltran. They’re going to be good again.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

That's oversimplifying things a bit.

The Cardinals, after revamping their bullpen and picking up Jackson and Furcal, were a very good team. It wasn’t like they simply caught fire. They retooled a team as much as possible at the deadline and ended up with a much improved team.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

They were lucky in the sense that all of their moves worked out, but the team was

a considerably better team. It helped that the Braves collapsed, too.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

In the first half they scored 433 and gave up 407

In the second half they scored 329 and gave up 285.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Well sure, but any time you are looking at a half season you are going to run into this problem.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't like how everyone assumes Wainwright is going to come back and be awesome.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going with this.

And while I’m at it I’m going with Cueto and Latos on the NL All Star staff.

Cueto starting it.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ehhh

I don’t think Beltran will be that productive. He’s been through a bunch of injuries and just has a hard time staying on the field. Wainwright is coming back from TJS and it’ll be a struggle for a bit.

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It does

Especially Pujols, but they get Waino back, and the bullpen should be less volatile

Fuck Murray Chass

by DerekH91 on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not a terrible idea.

Go all in one year, trade some prospects. If it works, it works. If it doesn’t then trade Votto and start the rebuild.

by chazzilla on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The next window is 2-3 years away.

So trading Votto kind of makes sense. So does giving BP a 1-year deal, given these signings. Really like the ’pen, but team feels shallow.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

The starting pitching just isn't there

plus they’re going to need some career years from guys on offense. Joey Votto can’t skip a beat, Jay has to play like 2010 Jay, BP has to be All-Star quality another year, Rolen needs to be productive, Stubbs has to play better, left field needs to get it together, Cozart can’t stumble, etc.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

They'll need to get a little luckier too.

They were several wins below the pythag last year, right?

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, 4 behind according to B-R

I’m not worried about the luck so much as what you said. This is an 89 win team in a division with a team that’s probably a few wins better.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Aw, shucks.

A “very good team”? That’s awfully nice of him to say.

by the finest muffins on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

While shooting gators

and stubbing his toe?

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 11, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Madson was only worth 1.7 fWAR last year.

FIP of 2.25 is nice though. Hopefully we can get 70+ innings out of him and make that 2.3ish fWAR. It’s a 1-year deal after all.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:36 PM EST reply actions  

AND Marshall was a 2.8 fWAR pitcher last year.

5 combined over the last 2. Lots of WAR at the back of the ’pen.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

For those of you that don't follow Slyde...

jluckhaupt Joel Luckhaupt
Madson & Marshall are better than anybody the #Reds had in the bullpen in ’11. Latos is probably best young pitcher Reds have had since Rijo

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST reply actions  

None of that is saying all that much

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

How isn't it?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Reds have never been good at developing pitchers, especially not in the last 25-30 years.

The 2011 bullpen sucked.

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, never mind I misread you.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I do!

That was great, the only thing it needs is tHom not being petulantly passive agressive towards Jay

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 11, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to deter your enthusiasm, but...

johnfayman John Fay
Haven’t been able to confirm Madson. Heyman says it’s 1-year deal. Would be a great move for #Reds.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:40 PM EST reply actions  

Butt Puppet!

no but srsly thanks for the info

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

plus one this

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:44 PM EST reply actions  

Oh snap!

#HeiseyDiss

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He's right, for the record

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

totally

the unfortunate thing is there isn’t anyone left in FA

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

A trade could still be made, but not sure for who.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 10, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

the cupboard is a bit bare right now

unless they can move a reliever + Frazier.

this may seem blasphemous but right now might be the best time to trade Billy Quicks.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Jan 10, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take him

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, I really wouldn't

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

why not?

I’m assuming he won’t get more than a couple million. He hits RHP well. Gets on base. Plays solid defense. What’s the downside?

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Same as Gomes

Gomes got on base too, if you only counted April and May. Also, I was of the impression that his defense is very blah.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 12, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his defense is average or slightly below compared to other RF

He might be average to slightly above in LF, I’d guess. He’s not going to be a world beater in LF, but I don’t get the impression that he’s a butcher, which is really all you ask out of LF, right?

And Gomes never got on base like Fukudome. I understand the concerns about his April numbers being so awesome in comparison to the rest of his year, but his career 1st half (.266/.371/.404) and 2nd half (.253/.348/.392) splits aren’t too out of whack. Even if he only manages to have a .348 OBP for the entire season, it still would’ve been the 4th best on the Reds for any player with more than 100 PA in 2011. Just because he’s not a .380 OBP guy all the time doesn’t mean he can’t be useful, especially if Dusty limits his ABs vs LHP (career: .251/.328/.364).

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 12, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

If he signs, I’ll certainly be hoping for the best.

But with Fukudome, there’s also a pure sports fan side of me that says – he’s just really unfun to watch play. It’s hard to explain.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 13, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I get it

I’m not gaga over him, but I do think he’s the best fit. I am a little concerned that his style of play won’t work well in GABP, which suppresses everything but HR and doesn’t help slap hitters much, but if he can continue to get on base, I think he’ll be the most benefit to the team. Of course, that’s not saying much given the other candidates.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jan 13, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Him too, seriously

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jan 10, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

He's got the splits for Hi-Z

And the power. And the Ra-ra guy factor. Why not? 1M lol Done.

crashtestnipplechip citymoron

by Excalib8 on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, sure.

The problem is Heisey’s MLB split is backwards.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

sss3

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 11, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

He can't PH or Bunt

No

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Jan 12, 2012 3:08 AM EST up reply actions  

What would it take to get Dunn...

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Jeez, that'd be awesome though

assuming Chicago eats a big chunk of the contract, that is

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You think they'd pay 36 million of it?

That’d be great!

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless he continues to suck.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jan 11, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't you know...

Dunn hates baseball and is lazy! He was one of the worst players of all time last year!

In all seriousness, I think the Reds clubhouse has been a much better, more cohesive place since Dunn and Griffey left. (Granted, winning helps)

by Nasty N8 on Jan 11, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I really never saw signs of a bad clubhouse with Dunn and Griffey.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 11, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

That's the word on the street...

Don’t know if there’s any truth to it…
Don’t know if Dunn would be different in 2012…
Don’t know if the current clubhouse would have a thought on Dunn either way

by Nasty N8 on Jan 11, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

My impression (FWIW)..

is that was/is kind of a “Hey, man, whatever. That’s cool” kinda guy.

So if he and his fat wallet were brought in to schlub around in left field and mash a few taters for Dusty Baker and then go to the other end of the bench when Scott Rolen is advising Joey Votto, then I think Dunn would go along and get along and let the clubhouse be whatever it’s gonna be.

But here’s a fun ‘thought experiment’ for Reds fans: Imagine the media/fan backlash if Walt were to bring in Adam Dunn right now after everything Walt’s done to ‘win now’ and after the season that Dunn just had…

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 11, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

ha!

that’s a fun thought experiment!

“win now”, and then bring in such a lightning rod to shit all over that theory

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jan 14, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Dave used to be a big Heisey believer

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I can be a little mercurial, but how can you not get pumped for this?!?

After 2000-2009! After last year where Walt & Bob failed to do anything and the Reds took a step back! The front office has really done a good job of strengthening this team for 2012. I don’t understand how anyone would think that the Reds are not now fully in the driver’s seat for 2012 in NL Central. No Pujols, No LaRussa, No Fielder

At this point, I don’t care about after the Votto window. Win big or die trying!

by Nasty N8 on Jan 10, 2012 11:46 PM EST reply actions  

Theriot!!!?

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

What leftfielders are left, period?

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I thought

I was on the Andruw Jones bandwagon

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Where'd they find this money?

BNightengale Bob Nightengale
Madson guaranteed only one year by #Reds in excess of $10 mill #mlb

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:51 PM EST reply actions  

you think?

i’m unsure. But they might be settled on a rotation including Leake, Bailey/Chapman, Latos, Cueto, Arroyo, leaving no holes.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot your damned sarcasm font.

I meant to go to bed 2 hours ago.

Still, Walt could have felt that the rotation is full and that LF is “fine,” and that Madson is a greater improvement over CoCo than would be a LF or SP over the incumbent.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I was getting ready for bed when the Madson rumors started hitting RR an hour ago

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright, this news will be here for me to catch up on tomorrow night

Good night everybody, and go Reds!

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 11, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

If they had $10M+, it should have gone to Beltran, Oswalt, or someone of that caliber

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

x

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Beltran 2 for $26 is a ton higher

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 11, 2012 12:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Whoa.

That’s too much money.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I asked Fay where the money came from:

johnfayman John Fay
RT @jsl413 @BNightengale where did they find this money?//probably offer Cordero $7 or $8 million.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd because Louisville is the worst!

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I always forget you're a Cats fan

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't know she was a Cats fan!

now I like andro even more!!

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Jan 11, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Cats fan courtesy rec

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll give a rec for you bad UK math

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 11, 2012 1:01 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Heyman, who I have been a dick to all night, gives Reds some love:

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
cant say anyone besides #LAAngels & #marlins has improved as much as the #reds have. lots of talent there.

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:57 PM EST reply actions  

Ack, Heyman-praise

is not a good thing

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Fay sort of confirms...

johnfayman John Fay
Madson means #Reds won’t sign Cordero, Wood. Maybe a low-level outfielder — Ludwick, Ankiel, Fukudome.

no typos!

by jsl413 on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 PM EST reply actions  

I'd take Fukudome

No to Ludwick and Ankiel

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Samesies

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Jan 11, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

.....

……

That’s right, I said it! Whatcha gunna do about it?

Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

by OGC Reds on Jan 11, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Would you Fuk(udo)me?

I’d Fuk(udo)me.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

he is like 14.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Jan 11, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

K Law bringing the lolz

keithlaw keithlaw
Boy, I bet the Phils are glad they got an early jump on that closer market

by jsl413 on Jan 11, 2012 12:02 AM EST reply actions  

i'd do that

the kids migrated to another thread, that probably means i should sleep

by jsl413 on Jan 11, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I suggested that YEARS ago!

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Jan 11, 2012 1:02 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Dave's right.

He did suggest this back when Damon was good.

Not everybody is a Kenyan, fool. - jch

by PeteyHendrix on Jan 11, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

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