In which I defend not Zach Cozart, but the need to not replace him first
by sidnancy on Sep 20, 2011 3:45 PM EDT
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In the comments section recently, I got into a bit of a discussion about the Reds’ needs. Specifically, I sited an article by Ken Rosenthal stating that the Reds would target a middle-of-the-order bat, and/but might also consider a third baseman, shortstop, left fielder, or center fielder. I objected to most of this list, saying the Reds seemed OK at 3 of those 4 positions (and this particular sub-thread was discussing the need for a starting pitcher). Others disagreed with me, saying “a shortstop should be the priority position player, not left field.”
While I agree that LF isn’t a real problem, I don’t think SS is a problem either.
Next year, the Reds will be one of 2 teams: A team trying to make the playoffs in ’12, or a team trying to make the playoffs for ’13 and beyond. If they want to make the playoffs in ’12, two things are true:
- Offense isn’t a problem, as a team that finished the last two seasons #1 and #2 in scoring will return largely intact, with expected upgrades in offense in LF, SS, and 3B even if they don’t make a move. Spending money to add offense doesn’t make sense. Heck, they could probably run Janish out there and still score enough runs to win most games. Except that….
- Pitching is a problem. Only 2 pitchers will finish the season with >80 IP and ERA+> 90; further, who’s going to improve? Leake should pitch more innings and Arroyo should be less of a disaster (fun fact: Arroyo’s allowed as many HRs as walks), but no one on the staff screams “Big Step Forward!!!”; meanwhile, Cueto’s sure to come back to earth a bit If they want to make a dent next year, this is the area they must address.
If they don’t want to make a run at the playoffs next year, pitching is still the problem; there isn’t anyone in the minors anywhere close to stepping in to the major league rotation.
Unless they want to spend $120M+, a team can’t have a very good player at every position even if some of them are pre-arb or pre-FA. At that point, they have to look at where they’d be smartest to spend money and the Reds, at this juncture, need starting pitching much more than they need offense or defense. Adding just one average starter would do wonders, and adding a #2 type would likely put them in the playoffs even if they don’t do anything else.
Cozart could easily turn into a good everyday SS; scouts seem to think his defense will be good enough to at least keep him in the majors, and his hitting this year (between AAA and the majors) could be a sign of much more. At the very least, the Reds' season next year won't turn whether he's the starting SS.
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Agreed...
I still argue that you bargain-shop with a list by priority and not deciding that we need a #2 pitcher and a middle-of-the-order right-handed bat at SS, 3B, or LF.
I'm sure Janish is hoping the Reds don't go out and buy a SS
Since that would likely mean he starts in Louisville.
Agree that we need pitching more than hitting. Especially if we hope for postseason success.
But that BP article is making me wonder…could it be true, that the Reds’ “good” offense is due to playing in GABP, and not because they actually are adequate with the bats?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I would imagine we are closer to slightly above average once you adjust for GABP...
Like #10 in MLB and #5 in NL?
is there an easy way
to compare teams’ away records only?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
2011 Team Batting Stats
Home: .260/.327/.427, 102 HR
Away: .252/.324/.389, 75 HR
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
that's not what I meant
Maybe all teams hit worse away. Not as used to the venue, jet lag, no home cooking, whatever.
I’d like to see all the teams in the league ranked by runs scored away.
Or runs scored per game away.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
ah, I see
you might have to send out the stat-signal and see if Slyde responds
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
what?
That’s pretty awful.
What about run differential?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
on second thought
15th isn’t that bad, for the whole league. AL teams score more and all.
I wouldn’t expect run differential to be that different on the road. For ballpark factors, both teams get the same advantage or disadvantage. Sure, there’s home field advantage, but I wouldn’t expect it to be that significant. Maybe the team is really built for GABP?
I’m honestly not sure how much GABP matters. If it is the secret to the Reds’ offensive success, though…that would explain how they could score so many runs yet still lose so many games. And why the pitching was so unfortunate.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I really wish they would have built a larger park
a la Petco or AT&T. It seems like it would be easier for a small market club to build a team around a big ballpark than a bandbox like GABP.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Dumb ole river, getting in the way
I really really wish the ballpark was at Broadway Commons, it would have been such a selling point for downtown as people drive down I-71 and it would have opened up the riverfront for other developments.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
i originally thought that also
But I like gabp where its at. Its always fun to walk over the taylor southgate bridge after parking at the levee. Brothers has the 2.25 pints of anything on tap deal and now Tom + Chee is a great place to grab a pregame sammich.
I hate OTR, its awful. I haven’t stopped and parked there in at least five yrs.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 9:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree on the easy walk
I just wonder how it would have all played out had GABP had gone in there. I’m guessing Eggleston would be really developed from the ballpark to Sawyer Point.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
point taken
I love the wrigley and coors experience. I’m not sure the Greater Cincinnati Suburbanites would trek to the inner city. Folks already bitch and whine about bums and crime, and cincy is tame as all get out.
Sawyer Point is pretty underutilized. I’m not sure cincinnatians enjoy interracting with each other!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 10:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
E said two things the first time we went to Sawyer Point
She asked where all the homeless people were in Cincinnati, and asked why there weren’t more people at Sawyer Point/Yeatman’s Cove on a beautiful day. I explained that homeless/bums had to have a permit, but I didn’t have an answer to the second question. It really is like Cincinnatians don’t like being around each other unless dark beer and schnitzel is involved.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I don't understand how its that difficult
to get people to enjoy waterfront property. Its simply foreign to me, maybe it’ll change as the baby boomers’ kids and grandkids start being more active.
Gas Works Park in Seattle is really a perfect idea of something that’d fit well on the banks of the Ohio.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
the ohio is dirty and stinky
Avoid creeksides and riversides. Oceansides are where its at!!!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 5:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not all ocean sides
the Havana Harbor is one of the most polluted bodies of water in the world.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
All of the awesome parks along the Hudson and East
would beg to differ
It feels so nice to be back to normal
studdies have suggested
that a shopping mall does far more to stimulate urban economies than ballparks.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Tower Place certainly proves that theory
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 5:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
actual stores
Macy’s probably does more to stimulate downtown than GABP and Paul Brown combined; at most the Reds will use GABP 97 times a year, that is a full season, three spring training games (it doesn’t happen often but it has happened), and 3 NLDS, 4 NLCS, and 4 World Series games, I don’t know how many playoff and pre-season games can be played at Paul Brown in a season (insert joke here), but in a year where the Bengals and Reds play the max number of games in Cincinnati combined, that is bringing people into the city for less than 1/3rd of the year.
Macy’s is open 363 or 364 days a year, people will come into shop, it provides employment every day, not seasonal work, and it is much less expensive for the city or county than a socialized stadium.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I don't know anyone who frequents the downtown macys
Mike leak excluded, of course
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
well goddamn
if you don’t know anyone who goes there, nobody goes there at all!
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Sep 21, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
seeing as how my company's headquarters is across the street...
Put it out to the redreporters, when’s the last time you made a purchase from downtown Macys?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 22, 2011 10:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there are about 100 macys in the surrounding areas
why would someone fight traffic & park downtown just for macys?
People actually work downtown!
Those people go t the downtown Macys on their lunch breaks. example: The FMM.
Kevin Youkilis: If I were to go anywhere, I would want to go to Cincinnati .
I worked downtown for a decade
From one to three blocks away. Never bought a thing there
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I go there frequently.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Sep 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It is still above average to good in my opinion.
The Reds had an enormous offensive black hole at SS this year, save for the 11 games Cozart was here, and another platoon of awfulness in LF for the majority of the year with FLewis and Gomes, yet the offense ranks as one of the best in the business. I agree that priority #1 should be to get a solid pitcher this offseason to pair with Cueto and Leake at the top of the rotation. I’m fine with Alonso/Heisey in LF, Rolen/END at 3B, and Cozart/Janish at SS.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 20, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The thing is, that's not the only cog in that equation.
As far as I’m concerned, there’s no way we can land a #1 or #2 pitcher without trading from one of our “now-MLB” players (i.e. the old prospects…Alonso, END, Mesoraco, Frazier, Heisey, Sappelt, Cozart).
If it took Grandal and Alonso (plus whatever filler) to get Shields, you’ve solved the SP question…but then you’ve suddenly got Heisey/? as your LF, and LF now becomes a problem.
Is Frazier/Grandal/Sappelt enough of a prospect haul to land a stud SP? They seem to be the most surplus prospects in this organization…the only ones who could really be traded without significantly weakening another position.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 20, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be willing to give up some of those old prospects
In fact, we don’t really have room for all of them.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Very true.
I was thinking along the same lines as I was typing that…It likely will take Alonso to get a top end starter.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
or Mesoraco
the day we didn’t trade Hernandez, I got the crap scared out of me by thinking, “holy shit, they’re going to trade Mesoraco this offseason for a starter.”
The more I think about it, the more I may well be OK with it. Hanigan’s signed cheap, and is the best 50-60 start Catching compliment in the majors, and Grandal has shown he’s every bit as good as he was hyped to be (APB: Smarter Mod, track down that ‘on-a-limb’ statement I made about Grandal being a better player than Mesoraco!).
Maybe sleepy-eyes McGee is the key to getting a top-flight starter. If a package with him and whatever it took from Frazier, Heisey, Sappelt, Volquez, Wood, Bailey, Corcino, END landed you Felix, Shields, Haren, Kershaw, etc., would you be satisfied?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 20, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I would not be okay with trading Mesoraco under any circumstances
It’s easy to say “but we have Grandal waiting in the wings!” but at the end of the day Grandal has 190 PA above A ball. Devin Mesoraco gives the Reds a chance to have a distinct positional advantage over all but about 5 major league teams and catchers are right behind elite SP in the “hardest to develop” category IMO.
Oh and for your amusement, here’s your Grandal > Mesoraco comment. :)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
point taken, and well argued.
I just still think Grandal will be better. Victor Martinez-esque, if you will.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 21, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And you may be right, I'm just more of a "bird in the hand" guy
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
When I hold a bird I first cold-cock it with my hammer
then I always used the ‘Falcon Choke Hold’
Kevin Youkilis: If I were to go anywhere, I would want to go to Cincinnati .
by Madville on Sep 24, 2011 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd much rather trade Grandal
He’s got plenty of trade value right now too, although not as much as Meso. But he’s no more than a year away and looks like a top 50 prospect. Put him with a Sappelt/Frazier type and he might be enough, not for a stud pitcher, but for a solidly average workhorse, which I think is all that is realistic to target at this point.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Prospects are only an asset
At some point, you have to put that asset to work.
Both Grandal and Mesoraco can’t start the majority of games at catcher, for instance. Wouldn’t it be prudent to try to flip one of them for something useful? I think Heisey earned the chance to be an everyday player; Frazier has nothing left to prove in AAA but has no clear position with the Reds.
With the number of ready position players the Reds have, maybe it’s time to turn a couple of them into a decent starter.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
I'm really down on Heisey right now
I probably shouldn’t be but I get the feeling that when he plays every day he gets exposed a little. If I have to choose between him and Alonso, I play Alonso every day and make Heisey the 4th OF.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I'm with you.
A few days ago, after his hot streak, people wanted him to be the starting CF or LF. But now after going 0 for his last 9, his OBP is back under .300. No thanks.
Also, while it’s still a SSS, he’s a career .230/.295/.427 hitter as a starter. (382 PAs)
I just wonder how much more time he deserves as a starter when he excels as a sub/LIDR and Alonso is clearly the better hitter.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
heisey is RRs 2011 version of paul janish
Not quite as good as many think. He arm is subpar in cf, as is his range. He’s a stopgap replacement player.
Great 4th of and ph, LIDR for alonso:
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 9:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Sep 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I'll sound a bit like a Heisey homer and a Bruce-hater,
but what’s the comparison in production between the 2 during their comparable first 500ish ABs?
Yes, I know Bruce was much younger. I just would like to know.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 21, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruce hit .256/.314/.453 in his first season, which was 413 ABs
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
I think, as a rule of thumb,
the unhappier Paul Janish is with his playing time, the better this team will be.
by Gapper on Sep 20, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
so
You’re in favor of getting a SS first?
Who did you have in mind?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
by ZJiff30 on Sep 24, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
that's the truth, truth!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 3, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Currently
The Reds are #2 in the NL scoring at home (4.81 R/G) and 6th on the road (4.33).
League averages are 4.14 and 4.13, so while the home field helps, they’re stilll solidly above average on the road.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
thanks
That’s what I was looking for.
I’m not sure if I’m reassured or not. #1 is the Cards, #5 is the Brewers. We may be sixth in the league, but we’re third in the division.
Maybe because they get to play in GABP when they’re away?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
You should be reassured because the Reds aren't losing their best hitter in the offseason like those 2 teams.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I don't think the Cardinals are going to lose Pujols
They’re a lot of things but stupid isn’t one of them. There’s no way they could sell losing him to their fans. He has to retire a Cardinal.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Fans? Yes. Front office? No.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I don't think they are stupid either.
But I also don’t see how they’ll have the money. If he’s determined to get 25-30 mil a year, which it seems like he is, I don’t think they can afford him.
If they do pay him that much, they are going to be in trouble in a few years.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think they're going to pay him and be in trouble within 3 years
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
If they pay him, they are really going to be counting on graceful aging from both he and Holliday
If they give Pujols 25/year, in 2014 they’ll be paying he and Holliday a combined 42 million, and they’ll each be 34. It’s possible they’ll both still be worth the money, but I kind of doubt it.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
switch Pujols and Soriano.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Sep 22, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Not so quickly.
Pujols gets injured playing center, so they move Holliday to center, and HE gets injured and then they’re stuck with Corey Patterson in center and he actually INJURES CENTER FIELD. Because he sucks.
by crolfer on Sep 22, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
pay him
but defer part of the money.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
i think if they can build a winning team without Pujols the fans would forgive St. Louis
Also if Pujols leaves for some insane amount of money, the fans may turn on Albert not the Cardinals.
Also Pujols isn’t St. Louis’s Ken Griffey Jr., the Cards drew well long before Pujols, the Cardinals are much bigger than Pujols.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
There's gotta be a lot of noise in these numbers
everybody’s got a sample of 76 games or so, selectively chosen to ignore home parks. It just doesn’t seem like this info is actually telling you much of anything.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
looking at run differential
which might be the most illuminating way to look at it, it tracks fairly close to runs scored away.
Reds are 7th in the NL, third in the division.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wouldn't think so
That’s over 2600 AB for the Reds, or about 4 season’s worth of individual stats. I’d think that significant.
And it’s chosen to “selectively ignore home parks” because that’s what we’re trying to isolate – what teams do on the road. Frankly, I was surprised there wasn’t more of a home/road split in scoring.
BBRef tells a different story, with road teams actually outscoring home teams. I wonder why – don’t home teams usually win?
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
6 more interleague games were played in AL parks than NL parks
that could be some of it. Across MLB, home team is 56 runs over road.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
hey
aren’t you supposed to be working?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Reds are fifth in the NL by OPS+, which is a better way to look at things rather than chopping off half of the games played
Fifth sounds about right. They’ve had a good offense this year but it hasn’t been as good as last year, when they led the league in OPS+.
Two things
- OPS+ is a nice, short answer to “how good is your offense”, but not as good as runs scored.
- At that, if they have the #5 offense instead of the #1 or 2, there still isn’t any problem with it and pitching is still absolutely the biggest need.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
I think #2 is the key
I kinda think OPS+ is a better gauge of the quality of the offense than runs scored. Because a good offense could look a lot better by runs scored if they happen to have a ridiculously high BABIP with RISP, or if other teams have committed a ton of errors against them, for example. OPS+ is independent of random variables like that.
But #2 is the real issue. We are so used to seeing good offenses that if we can’t win 6-5 every game we think the offense sucks, when in reality it’d be nice to have a pitching staff that doesn’t give up 5 runs a game.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Pretty much what 'creds said
I do think OPS+ is a better gauge, particularly if you’re talking about predicting future performance, because one year’s clutchiness can make the offense look better than it is. Not that we have to worry about that this year.
Completely agree about pitching being the biggest need.
I'm really falling out of love with OPS as a stat, though.
You need to get guys on base. Nobody who plays to the catcher’s left can get on base.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
you sound like you need my new and improved statistico:
OBRISP!
OBP+BA w/RISP!
You need players who get on base, and you need guys who hit well with runners on!
Lemme guess…that already exists, is scrutinized, defined, redefined, and dismissed by ’creds and sid, right?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 21, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I do see a problem with having the #5 offense
…if other teams in the division are, say, #1 and #2.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Not necessarily
As long as they can outscore their opponents…which will involve getting better pitchers.
Pitching is the low hanging fruit on this team.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Unfortunately
I don’t see any low-hanging fruit that’s going to give us a better pitching staff than the Cardinals and Brewers.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Not unless they get a guy to slot in above Cueto for the rotaiton next year.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
A different look at it
By wRC+, the Reds are currently 4th in the NL (click on the column header to sort). By looking at the individual offensive components (including baserunning) and being league and ballpark adjusted, it should be more accurate than OPS+ (which isn’t looking at the components, undervalues OBP, and adds two numbers with different denominators).
The one thing that wRC+ doesn’t seem to do is separate AL and NL – Cinci’s 98 looks below average until you separate the leagues.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
the Cardinals and Brewers are ahead of the Reds
A lot ahead, actually. I think that could be a problem.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
also...
wRC+ is supposed to be park and league adjusted. So AL or NL shouldn’t matter, right? If 100 is average, the Reds are below average.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Then explain
…how there are only 3 teams in the NL who are above average (with the Cards #1 only 9% above average), while there are 3 6 in the AL, with 3 more than 10% above; meanwhile, only 4 AL teams are more than 5% below average while 10 NL teams are.
The “league” has to be all of MLB.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
maybe it means
this stat is not to be relied on.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Sep 21, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The DH makes it difficult to compare offenses across leagues
You can’t assume that all NL teams would get the same productivity at the DH spot, and you shouldn’t take away the DH when looking at AL teams because some of them do significantly better there than their peers. It’s best to keep the leagues separate.
It's a lot better than OPS+
Or maybe simple runs scored is the best stat for an offense. In which case, AL teams are still going to dominate the top half of baseball, and a whole bunch of NL teams are going to look worse than average. I wonder why that is? Probably a systematic bias in the stat.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
by kcgard2 on Sep 22, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
After looking
Over the past 11 seasons, the Cards, Phillies and Braves are the only NL teams that aren’t alt least 5% below “league average” (95 or lower), yet every AL team excpt the Royals have a 95 or higher.
Again, the “league” has to be all of MLB.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Does it matter?
Last I checked, they are still playing half their games at GABP in 2012, so even if their good offense is only due to that, it will still be the same next season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
yes, it matters
Because if the advantage is due to the ballpark, their opponents will also have it Reds home games.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
But we're not talking advantage.
We’re talking how good they are. That’s like saying, “the Reds pitching sucks, but only because of GABP. Other pitchers will suck too in GABP.”
The problem with that is that if the other teams’ pitchers are better than ours, they’ll suck less, just like if our hitters are better than theirs, they will still be better after both teams get the GABP advantage.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I know we're not talking advantage
That’s like saying, "the Reds pitching sucks, but only because of GABP. Other pitchers will suck too in GABP."
If someone floated that theory, I’d be curious about whether it was true. That’s all I’m doing with hitting.
I think it’s at least possible it’s true.
The thing is, we don’t know if our hitters are better than theirs or not. That’s what I want to find out.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wholeheartedly agree with this entire post.
A starting pitcher absolutely has to be priority number one. A solid #2 would be great, but a guy who is a virtual lock to throw close to 200 innings at 100 ERA+ would do wonders for this team.
Now if there was just a way to get rid of Bronson….
It feels so nice to be back to normal
but i honestly don't think the risk associated with signging or trading for a league average pitcher is worth it
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
cueto isnt a lock to throw 200 innings
Neither is volky, homer, arroyo, or anyone else.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 9:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No one is ever a lock to throw 200 innings.
Unless your name is Roy Halladay of CC Sabathia.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Sep 21, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
and Broyo
Even in his most challenging season he’s going to right there.
196 vs 200 is statiscally irrelevent so I say the broyo streak lives on!!!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Roger Maris is really not thrilled with this line of logic.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Indeed.
Exactly my thoughts as well. As for the talks of who/m to trade and what you’d get in return, I’ve been floating an idea that may seem absurd, I’m not sure. I’d like to offer Florida Grandal or Mesoraco and Alonso for Josh Johnson. Now, I know Johnson is a perpetual injury risk, but it might make a lot of sense for both sides. That is as long as the Reds are willing to roll the dice on his health and their pocketbooks for several years.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Sep 20, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a big Josh Johnson fan but I'm not sure I take that risk
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Me either
Johnson is owed almost $14 million a year for the next 2 years. That’s a lot of money to pay a guy who, apart from 2 durable years, has been a perpetual DL member since 2007.
Not that I wouldn’t want him, but I wouldn’t pay that much for him. Alonso and Mesoraco would easily provide more surplus value over the next 2 years than Johnson will.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Big Johnson Coed Naked Skydiving Motor Parts?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I still own, wear, and flaunt this shirt...15 years later.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 21, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that why I get late night calls and texts from you constantly?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
2 Starting pitchers are a priority.
But don’t give away the young guys.
Cozart, Sappelt, Frazier, Meseraco, Fiasco, Alonso…
Keep ‘em all.
Votto is short term for the Reds, BP is prime to get some top level pitching
throw in Hernandez and Hi-Z and the Reds may be able to swing getting and affording a couple of higher tier starters and maybe a decent relief pitcher too.
Don’t need no SS
Don’t need no 3B
Don’t need no LF
Need – 2 starters and at least one or two better BP arms.
Kevin Youkilis: If I were to go anywhere, I would want to go to Cincinnati .
its a tap dance
If these prospects pan out they will give the reds several years of inexpensive contribution. If they don’t then we should have traded them, of course.
Rolling the dice. Is Mesoraco the next Piazza or Todd Hundley. Is Alonso the next Palmeiro or Hal Morris? Is Cozart the next jay bell or kurt stillwell?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 21, 2011 9:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
dang
Jay Bell retired 37 hits shy of 2,000, 6 doubles short of 400, and 5 HR short of 200 though. Given the absurd numbers enhancement of everyone else, coupled with his falling just short of several landmark numbers makes me think that maybe he was just a product of the environment and not a numbers driven juicer.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Sep 21, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
wasnt jay bell drafted in the top 5 overall i the amateur draft?
The kid had some skills.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 22, 2011 10:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Close
He was 8th, and he ended up clearly the 2nd best first rounder from that draft.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
You thought Chris Gruler was bad
This was a bad draft for the White Sox.
<http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.cgi?draft_round=1&year_ID=1985&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round>
If you then what you knew now, which Barry would you have taken?
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
There were a lot of steroids taken in that draft
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Sep 26, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bonds only got 50 of his WAR with the Pirates, then was outta there.
FWIW…
It feels so nice to be back to normal
That was quite a draft, especially if you check out the 2nd round.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
Mike Christ!
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 28, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
You're looking for my Pal Mike the Archangel?
My brothers were named James, Bartholomew, and Elron.
Kevin Youkilis: If I were to go anywhere, I would want to go to Cincinnati .
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