Red Reposter - the final homestand
by ken on Sep 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT
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Print- Extending Cordero an option
As has been discussed plenty around here, the Reds hold a $12M option for Francisco Cordero next year with a $1M buyout. The team is almost certain to reject it, seeing that Cordero would not fetch that kind of price in a crowded closer's market this winter. But according to Walt Jocketty, the two sides have discussed a contract extension "quite a bit. We haven't made a final decision. Hopefully, we'll address before the end of the season." No word on the length of an extension, or the numbers. Stay tuned. - Baker balks at bloggers' bellyachings
There are few managers as likable as Dusty Baker when the going is good, but darker times bring out his ornery side. When asked by Fay about whether Mesoraco would catch Volquez on Sunday, Baker wanted to know who's driving the questions: "I get so tired of everyone wanting to know my lineup before I even print it. This coming from you, John, or is this coming from bloggers?" Does it matter? - The Reds start their final homestand of 2011 tonight
It's been a disappointment on the field, but even with a sluggish economy the Reds have drawn respectably. The team has averaged about 27,500 per game, their best since 2004. That's well behind Chicago, St. Louis and Milwaukee, but also ahead of Houston and the resurgent Pirates. Their per game increase of 1,747 is among the best in baseball, behind only the two 2010 pennant winners, Milwaukee, and three other clubs that had more room for improvement (Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toronto). - Still looking for the first win
Dontrelle Willis takes the hill tonight against the Cubs. He's made 11 mostly cromulent starts, walking too many but also keeping the ball in the park and generating a decent number of groundouts and strikeouts. He'll match up against Rodrigio Lopez, who the Reds saw just last week in L'affaire LaHair. - Dragons Fall 4-3 in Playoff Eliminator
The season is unfortunately over for the Dayton Dragons after dropping Games 2 and 3 of the league's quarterfinals to Lansing over the weekend. They lost the deciding game 4-3 on Saturday. Billy Hamilton went 3 for 4, and Tucker Barnhart and Theo Bowe chipped in with two hits. Kyle Lotzkar got the loss, allowing four runs (three earned) in five innings. He struck out six but walked five and allowed a home run.
- Rockin' Redlegs is back to school
And has drawn up a syllabus for Redlegs U. Though I'm not sure if Bronson will be invited back, after repeatedly giggling at convocation whenever "cum laude" was uttered. - BtB - My Hopes and Fears for ESPN's Numbers Never* Lie
Apparently ESPN debuts a new stats-based show today. I don't know who the hosts are, but I'm not holding out much hope that the show advances the dialogue. To paraphrase Vin Scully and probably several others, "statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." - Hal must have rented High Fidelity last week, because he's making Top 5 lists like they're going out of style
Here are his Top 5 reasons for optimism in 2012. This list is a bit more interesting - Hal's top five toughest interviews. Who knew Joe Morgan had such a temper! Hal probably should've tried an interview in the steam room.
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If Cordero would agree two a 2 year $12,000,000 ($6 mil per year) contract, I would do it.
But, i don’t think Cordero’s agent is that stupid. As much as I don’t want to admit, Cordero put in a pretty good deal. He could probably make more money elsewhere.
Remember, we are talking about the guy that signed with the Reds for $1,000,000 more per year than Milwaukee.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
I hope the door doesn't hit him in the ass on the way out.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's big ass
the door will have a hard time missing it
by 'tHan on Sep 12, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still think CoCo wouldn't get that much in FA
The closer market is going to be absolutely saturated this year. Heath Bell, Papelbon, Kerry Wood, K-Rod, Ryan Madson, and others will all be on the market.
CoCo is 37, far older than any of those other guys and probably not viewed much more highly than any of them. If the best of those guys go for $12 million and it drops from there, Cordero couldn’t expect more than $6-8 million a year. If he really wants to stay in Cincy, a discount is in order. 2/$6 mil per is the absolute max I would do.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think his usage is as big a problem as his potential price-tag
Given the alternatives, I think I could live with a discounted two year contract. But don’t lock him into all-time closer for two years. And don’t send him out 4 out of 5 days at age 38.
I hope it’s a one-year contract, but I think he’d be able to find two years even in this market.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
and he'll take the longer contract every time, independent of money
because he’s one more 2010 from being out of a job at this point.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Sep 12, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He'd definitely find 2 years. Arthur Rhodes found 2 years as a 40 year old
But I highly doubt anyone else pays him more than $6 mil per.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I would definitely test that assumption
for the chance to avoid paying him $5-6M in 2013.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure he'll be able to get more than 2/12
He’ll be 37 and doesn’t have near the same stuff as he did a few years ago. It’s also going to be a buyer’s market with a lot of relievers hitting free agency.
I also think he genuinely wants to stay here – he likes Dusty and he’s done a bunch of community stuff.
and again, i would think the Reds could get a younger man for that kind of money
Jeremy Affeldt 2013!
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be okay with that.
He has a $5 option next year though, and I wonder if Brian Wilson’s injury situation would make them less inclined to let Affeldt walk.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
dang
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
shit, i didn't realize that
trade the farm for him, he is our last great hope!*
*not intended to be a factual statement.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what would be fun?
If the Reds could trade for Matt Belisle this offseason as well as signing Affeldt.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Belisle has been pretty solid since moving to Colorado
2010 ERA/FIP: 2.93/2.68
2011 ERA/FIP: 3.56/3.07
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Letting Belise go without moving him back to the bullpen was a mistake.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dusty is a lot more peevish this year, I agree
Even though I still like him, it’s kinda tough to get behind him when he manages a mediocre team trying to usher its New Class to the majors. A lot of his tactical blunders get magnified, reporters naturally ask questions about the struggles and he gets defensive.
Hurling “bloggers” as a way to discredit the question is lame. We care about your team, we buy your stupid merchandise and we promote your games all year long, even when everyone has switched over to football. All we ask if that you let us make fun of your team sometimes and maybe answer some questions about your plans to help the talent develop.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
and Dusty shouldn't manage based on what we want
but bloggers are essentially fans, just fans who voices are now amplified with “new media”. It isn’t unreasonable for Dusty to answer fans questions about the team, because as much as a cliche this may be, MLB wouldn’t exist without us.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe when Dusty says "bloggers" he really means asshole commenters on Cincinnati.com
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
That was my thought as well
Also, it would’ve been cool to see Fay play a tough guy here. "The question’s from me, hoss. You gonna answer it?
/led out by two men with zero percent body fat in Red blazers
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
they found a use for Alonso and Mesoraco!
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Sep 12, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If Yonder Alonso has zero percent body fat, I'm the Queen of England
It feels so nice to be back to normal
What, is there something wrong with that?
What are you, some kind of bigot?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
And Meso isn't exactly Jack Lalanne either
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Poor choice of words
Homer just paused from sharpening his hunting knife and raised an eyebrow in your direction.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The other dumb thing is that Ramon has been terrible.
Like Scrabbles said in a reposter, I hate to be that guy, but since July 31 when Walt chose not to trade Ramon, he has hit .200/.241/.267.
I understand he probably shouldn’t be shelved completely, but he’s just been terrible the last month+, and he is absolutely not going to be on the team next year. Playing him so he can get a nice contrat somewhere else is just stupid.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It's not that stupid
Dusty is a nice guy and he’s doing Monie a favor.
Now, playing Cairo, who already has guaranteed money next year, ahead of anyone else at this point IS stupid.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It's possible they're going to get the worst of all worlds from the Ramon situation
No return on him and not much experience for Devin. That’s mostly not on Dusty, but it’s still seems stupid.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The Monie sitch in July was stupid
It’s mostly harmless good ol’ boy cronyism at this point.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting discussion on Ramon's stock
Nothing really new, but FWIW they think he’d be the best catching option on the market this winter, and also think he’d be very tradeable if he accepted arb.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
If i am his agent
I don’t return Walts calls at this point. no sign-and-trade for me, I would be looking to control my clients future myself.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but if that's true, then the Reds can offer him arb knowing he'll decline
and that hurts his FA value, because a lot of teams wouldn’t be willing to give up their 1st round pick for him.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It's probably more likely to be a second-rounder, since teams in the top half of the draft don't forfeit their first-round pick
And a good team is more likely to pick up Ramon as a final piece than a rebuilding team. But I still think it’s a 50/50 at best that the team offers arb.
That's kinda what I was getting at.
The Type A thing kind of limits his market to half of the teams in the league, likely fewer, since some might not want to lose a 2nd round pick either.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
That makes it more likely to be a first-rounder, right?
Since teams without protected picks are more likely to go after him?
I think it makes him more likely to accept arb if offered also, especially since he’s a part-timer now. But maybe he wants a little more PT. And some teams in that protected half are delusional about their chances to compete or want to put together a stepping-stone season with some veteran signings. Someone like the Nationals might spring for him.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Got that backwards.
I think the Nats are still enamored with Pudge and his trudge to 3000 hits.
I see him fitting in well with the Yankees or Red Sox
They both need catching help and both have the dough to spring for it. Although they are pretty protective of their picks nowadays, so who knows.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
AL team makes sense
where he could also DH. It’s tough to know, with teams wising up. And tough to know how he would judge the FA market with a Type A tag. But I think you have to offer him arb. And trade him immediately if he accepts. Someone wants his services, so it will almost certainly end up better than letting him walk.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the Yankees are in a pickle at catcher
Especially if they’re not going to use Montero there. Also, I don’t think they’re gshy about giving up their picks. They did it last year to sign a reliever.
Yeah, but only after management told Cashman he had to
Cash wanted his pick and said so many times.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably nothing
But I think it still warrants mentioning.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully that's true
I hope they don’t do him another solid by not offering arb. Or actually keeping him around. Although working the clock with Meso might be tempting.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
How tempting will it be when you watch him destroy AAA pitching again next year?
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah Hernandez is at an age where the bottom can fall out.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
he's seen better days.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Sep 12, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think it would be
But keeping him down until June so he’s under control until 2018 is absolutely something the Reds might consider, especially if they think Hernandez will be just as tradeable then. I think it makes sense to cut bait with Hernandez in the offseason, but I think it’s a defensible position.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure Ramon would be just as tradeable then. Perhaps, but it's a risk
Also, even if he starts the year on the team, they control him through age 29. Not sure it’s worth it just to have him until 30, and the way things have been going, it might require keeping him down until July.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I don't either
but it’s a calculated risk. One I don’t think is worth taking with how quickly Ramon could fall-off and/or get injured.
But catchers that can hit are a scarce commodity. Which suggests Ramon will still be in demand and having Devin under control for as long as possible is a desirable outcome, especially if he or Grandal end up having any positional flexibility.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ramon's peak value was July 31
He’s been bad since then, and it’s a huge risk assuming he’ll be good enough in April-June next year that his trade value would be higher.
I’m guessing a full year of him after the season he’s had would almost definitely be worth more than half a year, regardless of how he plays to start the season. Then there’s also the very real possibility that he’s terrible to start the year and is untradeable.
Also, I’m very concerned that if they keep him to start 2012, and are in the thick of the pennant race, they won’t be willing to trade him.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
You don't have to convince me
The risk of him sliding any further is too great, while his trade value is more like to be higher now than it would be in June or July 2012.
But this is the kind of blunder the Reds have run into sometimes. Extending a veteran past his sell-by date OR cutting bait but getting a return on investment, in the case of Rhodes.
I also think demand for catchers will stay high. There always seems to be someone shopping at the deadline, although not always as desperate as the Giants.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I think playing a guy who has zero chance of being on the team next year
is dumber than playing Cairo.
Cairo can help the team next year, and will be needed at some point, so it makes sense to give him some time.
Dusty doesn’t owe Ramon anything. He’s getting his money, and he’s going to get paid this offseason even if he doesn’t play another game.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
You and I both know that is not how a baseball clubhouse works
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
From a strictly dollars-and-cents perspective, sure. I get that.
But these fellas ain’t robots, ’credsy. Is an extra 15-20 PAs this fall going to make a difference for The Golem? Probably not. But if Dusty benches Monie now it alienates a veteran leader and could perhaps give the young players the impression that the team sees them only as commodities.
Having been through a humiliating salary negotiation myself this past week, I get the “these guys are actually people” vibe.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not about the money...
Well, of course it’s always about the money. But when a free agent is deciding where to sign, they’ll often choose a good clubhouse vs. a dysfunctional team that makes a slightly better offer.
Treating our vets right will help us down the road. Having said that, if they can’t think of some reason to put him on the DL, they aren’t trying hard enough.
Yeah, but...
The catching rotation should be the following: Rocco, Hanny, Rocco, Monie, Rocco, Hanny, Rocco, Monie…
The veterans keep up appearances and a few extra AB’s and Rocco gets some serious time to get accustomed to being the next Johnny Bench. Wonder if he’s got the 7 baseball in one hand trick down yet?
For comparison's sake,
Since Mesoraco was called up on 9/1… here’s a listing of who’s caught
Hanny, Monie, Hanny, Hanny, Rocco, Rocco, Monie, Hanny, Monie
Hanny: 4
Monie: 3
Rocco: 2
good point
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
I know, and like I said, I don't think he should be completely shelved
It’s really more a matter of the fact that Dusty seems to be much more concerned about getting Ramon playing time than he is in getting Devin time. And that is dumb.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I don't think that's it
I think Dusty is concerned about the pitchers, and who they are comfortable with. Mesoraco doesn’t speak Spanish. When Chapman got into trouble Saturday, they had to send Miggy to the mound to translate.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
sure
And if they traded Ramon, it wouldn’t even be an option, and Dusty would have to deal with it.
But as long as he does have the option, he’s going to use it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
strong words & they're coming directly from the manager of Red Reporter!
it says so right there in the signature
Dang
’Creds is tearing it up in the Pick Them League. All you suckers that picked the Browns to win in the Knockout got what you deserve. You should never trust a team from Cleveland!
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
My patented, super-secret Pick Them method is paying off!
Until next week of course, when I’ll probably be in last place.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Probably as good a time as any
to link to this
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 12, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
auto-rec'd
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and Thank God for that!
#clevelandhate
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
Not sure if this has been discussed, but Crapenter has agreed to a 2 yr extension.
It’s supposedly worth around $21 million, and probably has some deferred money. Hopefully he can turn into a pumpkin while the Cards are still paying him.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
that is too much money for his age
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, what?
Did someone hack Crolfer’s account?
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
nah,
good for him= bad for the cards. It’s a win.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, I just really don't care right now.
It’ll probably blow up in their faces anyway.
"Luna Lovegood is really freaking awesome in every way." -Me
I love to see the Cards sigh=n a stupid contract.
i wonder if it stipulates how big his statue outside of the stadium will be?
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's pretty decent for the Cards
it saves them some money this offseason in the quest to sign Pujols, and the current average value of that contract is pretty low. As long as Carp stays healthy, that looks like a good deal to me.
Damn.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
But he has basically missed 3 years over the course of his career due to major arm surgeries.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
I said if he stays healthy
which except for one arm surgey, he has been healthy for 6 seasons for the Cards.
I would absolutely be thrilled to be wrong though!
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Carpenter is already declining.
I don’t know how to do tables here, but for the last 3 years:
ERA: 2.24, 3.22, 3.75
RSAA: 39, 18, -4
WHIP: 1.01, 1.18, 1.30
Not the trend you want to put money on. Good luck, TLR.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Would've liked to have seen Volquez out of the bullpen this month
He should still have a shot at the rotation next year, but it’d be nice to know if he can be lights-out as a reliever.
I agree.
I would be nice to know if some of these back of the rotation starters have more value in the bullpen (Volquez, Maloney, Wood). It seems to have worked out nicely with LeCure.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Sep 12, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is psychological...
Convincing him that he’s a good starter, so he’ll come in next year with confidence.
Considering that I think that Volquez is the biggest head case on the team, I’m in favor of this. Well, actually I’m in favor of trading him for whatever we can get. But this comes in second.
Volquez should know if he pulls his head out of his ass he is capable.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure he can pull his head out of his ass...
He’s wedged it in there pretty firmly.
Million dollar body and two cent brain. Exactly the kind of guy I love to trade.
Except he has no value
May as well try him out in a new role. I think he might take to relieving, since he can go out there and just grip it and rip it.
If Baseball was less macho, he would be in theropy
and much better for it. if the problem is in the head, you have to treat the head.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced it's his head in the way you are intimating
I think he just can’t control his pitches.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
My guess is you are right
but it is a common ax for me to grind. I believe there are many times where talk therapy could be part of the answer, and I have a feeling it rarely is.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
My feeling is that it was John Fay's stupid questions that made Volquez start doubting himself...
And, in reality, Fay was just asking what the bloggers told him to!
This is not a comment that is common on sports blogs.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Sep 12, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
I don’t see myself as a typical sports fan.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The funny thing is, the "yips" are an acceptable explanation in golf,
which I don’t consider a sport boasting the most tolerant fans, but don’t really hold water in other sports. Not sure if this is an issue of manliness or that sports that feature on talk radio invite personal attacks or that golf is still relatively marginal while baseball and football attract much more attention from all corners. But it seems pretty obvious to me that someone with tremendous talent who suddenly loses the ability to execute (see: Volquez, Willis once upon a time, Chapman earlier this year, as well as people like Adam Dunn) may have something else going on. But it is impossible to have a civil and empathetic conversation about what that something else might be. I’m still pretty horrified by the rumors that were tossed around about Votto because he was experiencing an emotional injury, not a physical one.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Sep 12, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
In golf, you are managing your own career
you have a manager perhaps, a caddy, whatever, they are YOUR employees, and there job is to do what is right for you.
In baseball, and other major team sports, you have layers apon layers of teammates, management, ownership, and the ever-present media. It is harder to keep private things private, and thus, harder to ask for what you need.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of players go through therapy
There is a whole industry of Sports psychologists.
John Smotlz had one, and the rumor is his psychologist would come to Smotlz’s starts and wear a bright red shirt so Smoltz could see him.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
not sure if "bright red" is a good choice for visibility at Braves games.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
He would also wave his right arm up and down, pivoting at the elbow.
You couldn’t miss him.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Sep 12, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i heard he had a special chant that smoltz could here
just in case for some reason he couldn’t be spotted from the field
not so goddamn easy is it?
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
that is exactly why i do need to talk
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
In the manner of Sloth from The Goonies, he would shout
“HEEEEEEEEEEY, JOHN SMO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOLTZ!!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 12, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
What could he possibly get in the trade market?
I’m sure a bunch of teams would love to lowball the Reds in hopes that their witch can fix Volquez, but I can’t imagine anyone trading anything more than a B-level prospect. The only way I see that he gets moved if he’s included as a chip in a larger trade for an established Reds player (i.e. Votto, Alonso, BP, etc.)
Volquez probably won't be the centerpiece of a trade
but he could be a part of a package.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
I like Dusty as a person
but I think the dam has broken. I want him fired after this year. His old-schooledness is just wearing me out.
Calmer than you are.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Sep 12, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
I think his petty blowback at Fay shows Dusty's living on the edge...
I think the disagreements with Walt and ownership are taking their toll and Dusty feels like he has to hit 500 in order to keep his job. I think this presumption is false; Dusty will keep his job until the team gets to around 5 wins under 500 next season or blows a substantial early-season lead (a la 2011).
I was irritated by his comments to Fay
Ad hominem attacks on bloggers to avoid legitimate questions is weak sauce
It reminds me of that old FSU coach going off on the "internets, and ebays"
He showed that he has little understanding of how is sport is covered today.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
IT'S THE FYE-NAHL HOMESTAND!
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Sep 12, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
FanGraphs has an article up today about the Rays latest super prosect.
Starting Pitcher Matt Moore. His arrival in the rotation next year makes James Shields more expendable…Walt, make your move!
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
So who would they want?
Stubbs and others…Grandal? Probably more
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Stubbs is pretty much upton
so unless they rid of BJ they won’t really want Stubbs. Alonso, however, they would love to have.
Really?
a AAA catcher and about 60 some Major League at bats for a legit top of the rotation pitcher?
That doesn’t seem very fair at all from TB’s perspective
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
60 great MLB bats with an excellent minor league career
And a probably top 100 prospect at catcher.
It’s a pretty good offer on our part
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
I just don't think Minor Leaguers are going to be enough to get Shields
The Rays would have to be crazy to take that…
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
See, I don't think you can call Alonso a minor leaguer anymore
He’s got 60 games in the majors over two years, and he’s rocking a .341/.388/.538 line.
At the very least, he’s not a prospect anymore. The Rays would be pretty sure of what they would be getting with him, and that’s more than you can say with a lot of trades.
Grandal is more of a question, of course, but again, he’s probably one of the best prospects at catcher right now.
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
I don't think anyone knows what Alonso will bring over a full season
Right now, he’s doing really well. No doubt. Still, that’s only 60 at bats coming after September. If I’m the Rays, I’d be cautious of that.
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
12 *years* of Major League control
between two top-line prospects? One of them at the premium defensive position. That is a hell of a lot to give away. Granted, Shields is owned for the next 3 years at good prices.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
But prospects (or prospect, considering Alonso is no longer a prospect per se)
Are just that…prospects. For a top of the line starting pitcher. If I’m the Rays I ask for a lot more.
Of course if I’m the Reds and that’s all it takes to get Shields, I do that deal without even thinking about it. It’s a no brainer for the Reds
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
But the Rays have a surplus of good pitching right now
That doesn’t make Shields expendable, because he’s actually having the best season right now, but it makes him easier to let go of.
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
True, but you can never have enough good pitching
And it means the Rays should, if they were to make a deal, be dealing from a strong standing point.
They don’t have to deal Shields. And if they do they should out for the best possible haul they can get. Somehow I don’t think Grandal and Alonso are it
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Again, I ask you. What would be a fair return?
Good MLBers are almost always dealt for prospects. Alonso and Grandal fill positions of need for TB. They are both from the area.
Roy Halladay was sent to the Phillies for 3 prospects, none of whom are significantly better than Alonso/Grandal. And James Shields is no Roy Halladay.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Cliff Lee is another good comp
He was traded to the Rangers for Justin Smoak and Blake Beaven, two prospects with similar value to Alonso and Grandal. And it’s not like Seattle have Drayton Moore as their GM.
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Not a good comp,
because that trade was for half a season of Lee. Shields has a few years of team control left.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
That's right, I forgot
I mixed up the Indians trade and the Mariners trade in my head
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
But the Halladay trade was a three team trade
As for a fair return – Maybe something like Frazier added in to Alonso/Grandal…or maybe go with someone like Juan Duran (or is that too much). How about Francisco/Alonso/Grandal…
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
It wasn't really a 3 team trade
The Blue Jays essentially got 3 Philly prospects for Halladay.
The Phils then traded Lee to Seatlle, but that trade was largely irrelevant to the Halladay deal.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Fair enough
So would you think the Alonso/Grandal/Frazier would be better than D’arnaud, Drabek and Taylor that Philly sent?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Grandal is far superior to D'Arnaud (another C)
Michael Taylor was the third piece in the deal, and Frazier probably compares somewhat favorably to him.
Comparing Alonso to Drabek is tough because Drabek was a pitcher who was a bit away from the bigs, whereas Alonso is already a MLB 1B.
I’d give the slight edge to the Philly package (at the time), but not by much.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Todd Frazier has much more trade value than Juan Duran.
I have no idea about Francisco, but I’d throw him in to just about any deal, including a deal for another team’s mascot.
END for Teddy Roosevelt, straight up?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
But Teddy never wins
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
We could get Harang back as well
and they could talk it out.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
I hope Juan Duran has a great career with the reds.
But at this point, he is still a total project. With zero trade value.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole "prospects are just prospects" argument doesn't really fly
They have value. You clearly don’t think they have much, but you are ignoring the fact that trades of one very good major leaguer for another rarely, if ever, happen. Who should the Reds give up for Shields? Cairo and Heisey are major leaguers, do they have more value?
And FWIW, Grandal/Alonso plus a couple lesser guys is very similar in value to what the Rox got for Jimenez.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think Alonso has some value, certainly
Not sure about Grandal. He could turn into something worthwhile .
I just don’t think a trade of Grandal/Alonso would get Shields. Especially considering the Rays can shop him around for the best deal if they really want to trade him.
You can never have enough starting pitching because something can always go wrong, so maybe they decide to hold onto him
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Grandal probably has more value than Alonso.
Another top pick, at a premium position, who hit very very well in upper levels of the minors in his first pro season.
He’s probably no more than 1 year away from being MLB ready.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
How good?
Like a Buster Posey type?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
A product of the Milford Academy?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
they look similar
& janish bats as if he has a hook for a hand
by 'tHan on Sep 12, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dating a 60 year old woman?
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Amazingly they're both called Lucille 2
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I don't think he's as good of a hitter as Posey, but it's close
But Grandal will likely be a top 50 prospect this offseason. Those types of players have a ton of value, especially when they are catchers who are close to being MLB ready.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
nah'st it?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 5:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
no way TB trades shields for yonder/grandall
But if I was a gm id consider it. Two first rd picks, top 12 overall who can rake?
Id be intrigued.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 5:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd through Volquez into a deal like that
no reason for another organization to not want him, he is 28, throws 96, and is cost controlled for a few more seasons, and has a record of past success.
He could replace Sheilds immediately, and if he doesn’t work out it is no skin off Tampa’s back.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
via teh fay
Phillips 4, Sappelt 8, Votto 3, Bruce 9, Alonso 7, Mesoraco 2, Francisco 5, Janish 6, Willis 1
Reds elimination numbers are 2 (NL Central) and 4 (wild card).
Cubs lineup: Castro 6, Johnson 9, Ramirez 5, Baker 3, Soriano 7, Byrd 8, Soto 2, Barney 4, Lopez 1
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yep. He's been carrying the team long enough. It's time to make someone else step up.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Janish has a two-game hitting streak!
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm starting to like the idea of trading Stubbs
and using Sappelt as the starting CF. Defense will be a downgrade, although not a huge one. Stubbs is probably viewed as more valuable, so will bring back a greater return. Offensively, there might be a small drop off in power, but everything else would be similar, if not better.
I still believe we have not seen the best of stubbs.
I would hate to see him traded away.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The Royals wasted four putrid years on Angel Berroa thinking the same thing
just putting that out there
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
But Drew Stubbs is already a lot better than Angel Berroa ever was
Dave Sappelt, on the other hand, might never be that good.
Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 12, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
His defense wasn't even close to Stubbs though, was it?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Or his bat, for that matter
Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
dave sappelt reminds me of norris hopper
With less avg, less bunting ability and less speed.
And a worse jersey number!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 5:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sappelt is turrible
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 12, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 13, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
he makes me miss Reggie Taylor
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If we could really fill a glaring hole on the team
I would not be averse to this
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Sappelt sucks
If you trade Stubbs at least make Heisey the starting centerfielder, and find a left fucking fielder who can punish the ball.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
Stubbs, Heisey, Sappelt
One has to go. Stubbs is probably the best of the three, but not by a wide margin. He would also be the most valuable on the trade market. And I wouldn’t say Sappelt sucks. He is still a bit of an unknown, but has shown flashes (spring training, AAA) of what could be a very good hitter
It all depends on whether you think Sappelt can be a consistent big-league hitter
His CF defense is definitely inferior to Stubbs, as is his speed. He has proven to be a poor baserunner in the minors. He is also pretty small, and while that doesn’t preclude success, it is generally seen as a disadvantage.
If he can’t hit around .300, he will probably be pretty bad as an everyday player, since he is unlikely to hit for a ton of power ot take a lot of walks.
Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 12, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He is fucking Willy Taveras
he has one tool in the closet, and it is speed.
He swings at everything he fucking sees, he doesn’t have much power, and he can’t run the bases.
Willy Fucking Taveras all over again.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
They're not similar at all
Sappelt is much stockier. More powerful, but not as fast as Willy and doesn’t run nearly as often. He’s also probably not as good defensively as Taveras in his prime.
What power
the whopping 31 homes he has hit in 1781 minor league plate appearances?
The fast windmill, who lacks other tools is an apt comparison.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
I forgot, power is only home runs
I didn’t say he was powerful, just more powerful than a guy who never hit the ball out of the infield. Also, Taveras had a very strong arm. Not always accurate, but stronger than what I’ve heard about Sappelt’s. Your comparison is not apt.
when sappelt is hitting .221/.292/..384 my comparison will be apt.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
sappelt should never swing. he'd have a flawless OBP
it would be impossible to throw strikes with his midget strike zone
I agree!
I’ve always thought short guys should never swing.
I want to see another Eddie Gaedel.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
That's an ironic line for you to use
Considering that would mean his one very good tool, his hit tool, was bad, yet he walked a lot and hit for above average power.
.280/.320/.400 is much more likely.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Willy T didn't walk that much and certainly didn't ISO 160
But I know why you think they’re similar.
This is definitely true
Bleeding heart liberals are all closet racists.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
And before you get all huffy, I don't really think you're racist, Yossi
I’m just tired of your lame arguements.
because i clearly one the day!
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 12, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
#goodlord
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
my hatred of Sappelt is probably irrational
but after Willy T-Virus, and Corey Patterson i am very suspicious of fast players who swing at everything, which Sappelt seemed to do when he first got here. I haven’t really been watching closely or have any stats to say if that has changed.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
But Sappelt isn't going to get nearly the playing time of either of them
He’s a fourth outfielder at best next year
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
I'll just say this
First of all, you didn’t get the joke.
But second, Sappelt’s minors hitting profile looks somewhat similar to Taveras, with the very notable exception that Sappelt had a career ISOp of .150, and Taveras’ was .087. They aren’t the same player.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
nah, i got the joke
i was just admitting i am also full of shit.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
Please tell me you're being sarcastic...
Everything I’ve read basically says that Stubbs just has making issues with contact when he decides to swing. He is better at laying off bad pitches and picking up good pitches.
He’s definitely a multi-tool player (with the outside possibility that he is able to improve on his weaknesses)
Hit for Average: About average (Stubbs .249 vs. NL .253) (Also note OBP: Stubbs .324 vs. NL .319)
Power: Below average for this year (Stubbs .374 vs NL .392)
Base-running: Among the top in the league
Throwing: Not sure what measures are out there, but I’d say he is at least average here.
Fielding: Definitely Gold-Glove caliber CF defense
Totally missed your point... thought you were comparing Stubbs to Sappelt
Yeah, Sappelt sucks. He looks sloppy and should not be counted on to deliver at an MLB level.
I know people are starting to poke holes in WAR...
But of the everyday players,
Votto 6.6, BP, 3.0, Stubbs 2.9, Hanigan 2.0, Bruce 1.7, Hernandez, 1.7, Cairo 1.6, Heisey 1.2, Alonso 1.0
Of pitchers, only Cueto has a higher WAR of 4.0.
His baserunning is worth .6 WAR
His position adjustment and playing time account for 2.3 WAR. Which leaves his offense plus defense in the negative. Virtually all of his WAR value is coming from playing everyday and playing a good defensive position, and none of it is from actually performing above average.
Heisey playing full-time in CF would probably be 2 WAR right now, if not more.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Valaika is done for the year
Valaika says he suffered compete tear of right ACL. Will have season-ending surgery next week. #reds
- Sheldon
well that stinks for Valaika
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
how long does it take to heal?
Will he be ready for spring training?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
6 months is the standard
can be quicker, can be longer. Depends a lot on how he responds to it. I still have trouble with pain, swelling, and stiffness after a workout sometimes
first cozart, the valaika
Id be worried if I was soft j. I can see him needing TJS after tossing a worm burner to votto from deep in the hole.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 4:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he's already had TJS
When he was in Dayton, IIRC.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He doesn't have to worry at all, everything is falling into place exactly as he planned.
He will be our SS for the next decade and a half, at least.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Sep 12, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
holy cow
It didn’t even look that serious. He kept playing after getting that second hit, which is when he said it happened. Looked pretty spry chasing after that single up the middle (though I did think at the time that BP would have gotten it).
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
the problem with tearing the acl, at least not right away, isn't pain
its stability. When it happened to me, it hurt like hell when it happened, but the pain wore off quickly. But when i tried to stand and put any pressure at all on it, it caved. I walked around with a brace on it for a week or so before surgery without much of a limp
I knew a guy who tore his ACL screwing around playing football in the street
He went into work the next day, “tripped” over a hose, and collected workers comp.
Did I mention he was from Newport?
Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I was actually his supervisor, and I let him get away with it
In my defense, the owner of the company was close personal friends with Johnny Bench, so fuck that guy.
Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 12, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
stealing is stealing
And lying is lying.
Youse guys have set the moral bar below the winning limbo height.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 4:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Waaaait a second.
obc2:
@nycredsfan @Chandrathan @themusketeer @lexandrahorn honest thiefs only steal lost shakers of salt. Pilferer!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Sep 12, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
stealing a lost shaker of salt isnt stealing, its finding
Just like finding pirate treasure!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
being a buisness owner he probably steals from his employees, customers, etc
every body steals, morality doesn’t exist, just your ability to get away with what you do is the only thing thing that matters.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
I appreciate your intellectual consistency,
even if you are a moron.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
youre a tad jaded
The vast majority of people don’t steal. They also don’t step on others to get ahead professionally.
it may seem that way if you are blinded by SSS.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Health care should be free.
It sucks that the guy had to put the burden on his employer, but how much does a torn ACL cost to fix? you think he could have afforded it?
This country has all the money it needs, and the only reason we do not take care of each other is because we prefer to make money off of them.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 12, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I spent over $1,000 to simply be tested for carpal tunnel
$1,000 out of pocket only for tests, no treatment, as it turned out i had severe tendinitis brought on by a bad computer desk.
I am even responsible and have health insurance.
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
if that were the case, I'd be out of a job
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 12, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Good lord
Dude committed fraud, and roast beef was a willing conspirator.
Don’t fucking play football in the street if you don’t have medical coverage or the deductible/co pay amount on deposit.
(same theory applies for having intercourse)
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
why don't we do it in the road?
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
by bbjones on Sep 13, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It makes no difference to me
How other people fuck
But if you do it in the road
You’ll get hit by a truck
So bounce your buns with anyone
For whom you have the hots
As long as all are willing
And all have had their shots
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
in fact
don’t even go outside, except to work. Your service is to the state not to yourself!
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 13, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Alright let me chunk this down
How many of your family members steal? How many of your close friends?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
you work at a bank
god knows how much government backed police enforced stealing you have been complicit in!
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
by Yossarian22 on Sep 13, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
banks are awesome!
Lotsa folks aren’t gonna think so moving forward.
Good thing renting is an option b/c most homeowners are going to need to bring twenty percent cash to the table AND have spotless credit history to get mortgages. Everyone else will be shit out of luck.
Save that money, red reporters!!!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 13, 2011 9:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is most certainly not true
At least not right now. We got approved for an FHA loan, and the amount we were able to borrow was staggering. I can’t imagine borrowing that much, but we could’ve if we wanted to.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
hence the reason i stated "moving forward"
Instead of referencing things that have occured in the present or past tense.
You like to argue and bicker!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 13, 2011 11:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is just being inciteful
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I expect and demand nothing less
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
in addition
You are very lucky boobs didn’t report your charged off debt to the credit bureaus.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Sep 13, 2011 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
But this is hilarious, and rec'd
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
because all major new regulations occur right after they are passed!
I break the backs of young children by shattering their dreams.
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