Red Reposter - Conceding defeat
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 11:40 AM EDT
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PrintExactly three weeks ago today, I gave you all a number of reasons to be optimistic about the rest of the season. At that point, the Reds were in 4th place, two games under .500 and four games out of first place. Today, they are still in 4th place, three games under .500 and 7.5 out of first place. And today I am raising the white flag. Brendan was right. Even though I made a much better argument, based on numbers and facts and scientific projections and all that, and he made a poor argument based almost entirely on his gut feelings, it turns out he was right. This year just isn't the Reds year. So there you go, universe. You've crushed the beliefs of yet another cockeyed optimist. I guess I could turn my attention to football, but it just sucks so much.
Now let's go look at some links:
-
Dontrelle Willis pitched another decent game last night
He threw six solid innings, giving up two runs on eight hits and a walk with two strikeouts. He was lifted after throwing only 77 pitches (and hitting a home run), but Dusty cautioned that he was getting hit pretty hard. Unfortunately, Nick Masset fared much worse.
But Willis has pitched pretty well for the Reds thus far, starting five games now and tallying 29 innings. Small sample size and all, but he looks like the Dontrelle Willis of old. There are nearly two months left in the season so just about anything can happen between now and then, but it looks to me like he's earned himself a contract for season. The question is, if you are the Reds, do you offer him one? And if so, for how much? -
Frustrating seasons like this have a tendency to snowball on you
I'm going to project quite a bit here, so bear with me, but I don't think I'm off base. Dusty said yesterday that with Scott Rolen out for at least a month recovering from shoulder surgery, it's unfortunate that Juan Francisco isn't quite healthy enough yet to take advantage of the opportunity.
"It's bad timing for Francisco because he was really the next in line," Baker said. "He'd gotten a lot of playing opportunity if he had not been hurt. He would have gotten the nod the first time Scotty went down - probably this time, too. But somebody else gets a break and opportunity."
Apparently, that somebody else is not Todd Frazier. The problem I have with this is, if they are willing to play Francisco in this situation to see what they have in him, then that means they are willing to give an interesting prospect a try. But Rolen hasn't played since July 20th, and since then Todd Frazier has started only three games at 3B. If they want to give Francisco a shot here, why not Frazier?
I think this is very telling of how this organization views it's young 3B prospects. Clearly, they think Juan Francisco is worth it. I'm not arguing with that so much, because while I don't think he has much of a future in the bigs (especially at 3B), he's at least not Miguel Cairo here, whom we know has no future in the bigs. He's just too old. My anger stems from the very obvious assumption on their part that Francisco is worth it and Frazier isn't. Or at least, that's Dusty's take. Maybe Walt thinks differently and is quietly seething over this. Either way, I'm pissed. -
In what I believe is yet another obvious move made only to further confuse and confound me
the Reds have asked Yonder Alonso to start taking infield practice at third base. "Third base was my position growing up. It comes easier than the other two positions," Yonder said. "When I got to college at Miami, Ryan Braun was at third base. That's why I moved to first base. I started playing third my sophomore year and Danny Valencia came. He's now with Minnesota. Those were two pretty good third basemen."
As I recall, there was an ill-fated attempt to evaluate his skills at the hot corner a few spring trainings ago. It has been widely stated by many a scout that while Yonder has a good enough arm for the position, his range just isn't up to snuff. Perhaps the Reds think a rangy shortstop like Zack Cozart can help cover up his deficiencies there? To be honest, I'm not reading too much into this. I'm still of the mind that Yonder will not see significant time as a Cincinnati Red and will be traded by this winter at the latest. But it never hurts to move some players around the diamond just to see what sticks, right?
The Reds thought they had answered their shortstop question with the promotion of Zack Cozart
Edgar Renteria and Paul Janish were sucking hind tit and Cozy came up and started slashing the ball to and fro all the live long day. Then he got hurt, and back to square one we went. Fortunately, as Sheldon says here, Renteria decided to stop sucking the aforementioned hind tit. Since Cozart's injury on the 23rd of July, Renteria has slashed .323/.344/.548 and left a considerable amount of egg on our boy 'cred's face.
Though of course, I cannot let this mention of Renteria's redemption go by the boards without also mentioning that Soft J has hit even better than Renteria since Cozy's injury, slashing .357/.438/.571. Small sample sizes abound though, as Renteria has only come to the plate 33 times over this span and Janish just 16, but it certainly does not suck hind tit to see these guys finally start hitting a little bit.
CSG's take on the Astros series:
"Keep in mind that Cincinnati has lost plenty of times in Houston. The only problem is that those losses usually came at the hands of Warren Moon, not the 37-74 Houston Astros." Football sucks so much.
David Schoenfield takes forever to get to it
but he thinks Matt Kemp is your NL MVP thus far this season, with Jose Reyes a close 2nd. I wish the Reds had both of them.
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So much is confusing about this team right now.
I’m really, truly baffled that they think END is the future at 3B. I mean, ugh. And the fact that Dusty is basically shitting on Frazier by saying so, and by essentially saying that as soon as he can come up, he will, and will probably get most of the time. The fact that END is worthy of playing over Cairo, but Frazier isn’t? Come on.
Then there’s Alonso at 3B. That’s just silly. The guy spent the whole year in AAA learning to play LF, then he gets called up, and instead of trying him in LF, you make him learn a new position while he sits the bench. Ridiculous.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I agree with you on the END talk
As with Heisey – which I’m more sympathetic to – Dusty has a pecking order in mind that he’s really loath to change. In his mind, Francisco is next in line and deserves to play, no matter what has happened over this season.
I don’t think there’s much more to Alonso at 3B than Heisey working out at 2B. Like Scrabbles, I think Alonso is still very much on the block this offseason. So a lot of what they’re doing with him looks like posturing to me.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 4, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
This is so far beyond idiotic...
Alonso couldn’t play first because the MVP lives there. As a result, we waste a whole season of his polished bat by sending him to the minors to play left. Now that there are no other choices, Walt calls him up, and Dusty still won’t use him. Instead, they decide they’ll see if they can move him to a more difficult position while he wastes away as the first pinch hitter off the bench. Unbelievable…
Yeah,
but Fred doesn’t even need his glove he’s so much better than Yonder. Just ask Dusty.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you noticed how fast he swings a bat?
I watched that closely last night during his lone at bat. He has awesome bat speed.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It really is a pretty swing too
The thing that has impressed me about both he and Frazier are the good ABs they have put together. Neither one is up there hacking, and Alonso in particular is incredibly patient and lets borderline pitches go by frequently, especially early in the at bat. Honestly, he looks a lot like Votto in his approach. I just wish he had the same oppo field power.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I'm sure it can be done, but you'd be hard pressed to find an ugly LH swing
(waits for the inevitable evidence)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
In no particular order....
Prince Fielder
Johnny Damon
Kung Fu Panda
Jason Giambi
AJ Pierzynski
Travis Hafner
Carl Crawford
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 5, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
my vote:
Juan Francisco.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Ha, I noticed that too. Neat guy, always was.
For some reason it’s extra fun to see pitchers who can launch them, I guess because it’s so unexpected.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a little funny to think that Miami has played at 3B Ryan Braun and Pat Burrell
Exceptional hitters who were most definitely not drafted for their gloves. If Alonso wasn’t able to stick at 3B for Miami, I really don’t like his chances to do so at the major league level.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't have ordinary gloves at 3B
If a guy isn’t good at 3B, he isn’t going to be good there. Too much instinct involved.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Braun was a SS somewhere at some time
I wonder who was the SS at Miami when he was there. Another guy there at the same time was Jon Jay. Marcum was a SS. I want to see him play some weird 5 man infield switch-a-thon late inning manipulation. Roenicke is into those.
"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane
It just occurred to me that the Reds did a similar thing with Tony Perez
Perez broke in with a cup of coffee in ‘64 and played about 200 games through ’66, all at 1B. He then switched over to 3B in ’67 and played mostly there, but some 1B, until he switched back in ’72 when the team decided that a quicker defender would be more valuable at the hot corner on Riverfront’s turf. By TZ, Perez was below average but not awful at 3B. But unlike Alonso he had played mostly at 3B in the minors.
I think the lesson is you can shuttle Cuban sluggers between the corners and they can still clutch hit their way to the HOF.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, like I said in the recap thread
I’m not ready to hand Willis a starting job next year just yet. His peripherals are that of a #4-#5 starter, which is fine, but I’m not sure he’ll be one of the 5 best options next year.
If they want to sign him up with the understanding that he might be coming out of the pen, so be it.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Willis is in that elite mix, same as last year
Any one of 4-or-5 guys can get the job, depending on who shows up in Goodyear.
But him being a lefty ought to matter, as it did for Wood. Still, any trades this winter will modify the back end of the rotation. For now, I think we can count on Cueto and Leake. Everything else is a crapshoot.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Yeah, I'm with you on this...
What happened to the days when we believed the Reds were flush with starting pitching. Lots of quantity, but no top end quality. Now, we have Cueto firmly entrenched at the top of the rotation, with Leake a solid but unspectacular starter, and then…
Willis has been good, but he’s not this good. I can’t buy that he’s bounced around like this for years and suddenly found it again. Volquez was wild when he was good, and I don’t think he gets back to that level again. Bailey seems to have become what he is, an acceptable option at the back end of a rotation. Wood just hasn’t panned out at all, and even if he did, his flyball tendencies would be murder in GABP given enough time, and then there’s Badroyo.
Seriously, we NEED to re-sign Willis, and we need to move Chapman into the rotation too. There’s just not enough quality depth with these guys, and they’re so inconsistent that we need to bank on them taking turns pitching their way out of Louisville – just like they’re doing this season.
I posted on the other thread, will here again ...
In the waning days of the trade deadline, was Willis not ever part of a conversation by teams who need another lefty in their rotation? If so, why did we think he was that valuable? If we thought that, what did we want in trade? I would have traded somebody for him if I were the D-Bags or maybe even the Mets (Wright or Wong) …
We keep asking what our prospects are worth … and here’s a guy who at least is capable of starting, going 6 and …. even hitting .300 … was there no chatter on the trade line about him? Certainly no big contract stands in the way of it.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I love noone talks about EV anymore
He is barely a year out of TJ and WILL figure his shit out.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 4, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
no one talks about him no more, it happened just a week ago
but people get by & people get high in the tropics they come and they go.
by 'tHan on Aug 4, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
There is plenty of talk about EV .. but so long as he's at Louisville, it's not gonna count.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I'm skeptical...
EV never showed great control, and I’ve never really thought he was more than a wild card. He may flash a stretch of brilliant games, but ultimately, I don’t think he can be consistent enough to be successful.
he also changed his pitching repertoire
from his “rookie” season, where he had a slider instead of a curve, scrapping the slider for arm related reasons. Given that, should we really expect him to repeat that season? he’s using an entirely different pitch now.
he won't
give up on EV, it’ll make your life easier
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 4, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
certainly better than him starting
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 4, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i am actually not joking
he would only have to focus one inning at a time, he could ditch his breaking ball and only have to maintain a fastball/changeup combination. He has the stuff. Maybe having to be prepared to pitch every day would keep him focused as well.
I think the Reds should shut down Masset because he just looks exhausted, and let Volquez pitch in relief at the big league level, see what happens.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
who are you
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
at this point, why not?
right?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 5, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Because he usually sucks in his first inning of an outing?
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
and there you have it
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 5, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaaaaaand finally
not so fast on the egg on my face over Renteria.
After last night’s O-fer his OPS in my arbitrary 75 PA stretch is now at .810 after 29 PAs. There’s a lot of sucky baseball yet to be played here.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Double or nothing, I propose
With jch picking an avatar for you during the world series?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Once again
I’m not betting anything with you.
Also, this makes no sense because there was no original bet to “double”.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Since no one reads fanshots
im gonna ask nicely if you guys could check mine out and offer up anything you would like. Please and thank you
Wear a rubber
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Aug 4, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Just for the halibut ...
Any number of pivotal days in the demise of Reds11, but I tend to look back on the day Cozart got hurt as the one that convinced me we were dead in the water. Odd, but I so rarely think of a rookie infielder as being that integral to a team. Still, I will remember that game as the one that hurt the most (not as much as it did the Coz.)
Wonder what a Fangraphs on our season would look like.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I think the Milwaukee series
Is what we’ll look back on as the death knell.
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that coincides pretty well.
He was a big shot in the arm at a position that had been completely lagging all season. He brought a bit of new-life to a team that had struggled, and when he got hurt, all of that fresh air got let out.
There have been tons of things that have gone wrong with this season, and while I still contend that CoCo’s 4 days from hell were the official nail in the coffin, Cozart getting hurt sure contributed to sealing the deal.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there has been a single nail.
This season really has been death by a thousand paper cuts.
Chapman’s meltdown. The LF clusterfuck. Rolen’s complete disintegration. The awful May road trip. Not winning 2 in a row for a month. Losing series to the Cards and Brewers right before the break. Cozart’s callup, success, then injury. Getting swept by the Mets. Getting beat by the Astros.
It’s just been one thing after another.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Coco's 3 blown saves in 4 days before the All-Star break
goes a long way towards explaining why they didn’t win 2 in a row for a month.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
CoCo's meltdown was a reminder
That teams have to play better if they want to win.
Those were devastating to watch.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I think the CoCo blame/resentment has more to do with his contract than his performance.
That series hurt, but they were right in until the Mets Sweep. I believe that’s the final nail because it put us in that 7+ games behind range. I am a firm believer that most people just want to take an opportunity to beat up on COCo because of his contract and ability to load the bases before getting the save. Like it or not, COCO is probably the most successful reliever in Reds history. Just like in 99, the Mets killed the season.
by Jack Armstrong started an All Star Game on Aug 4, 2011 8:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It doesn't help that Dusty puts the wrong band-aid on just about every wound
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
"Ask not for whom the bone bones . . ."
I’m just going to quote Bender to sum up the season:
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
I saw Yonder taking infield practice at third last night. He actually looked pretty good.
"Luna Lovegood is really freaking awesome in every way." -Me
I would take him there over END right now.
I would. That’s how little I think of END. Shit, at some point I think we’ll see him swing at a pickoff move to first base.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 4, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Like I said, I don't give 2 shits about the team's record from here on out.
If bringing up END and starting him every day for the rest of the season would prove to Dusty once and for all that he isn’t a major leaguer, then do it. I just can’t get over the lack of love for Frazier and Alonso.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It's one thing if that's what Dusty's thinking
But if he and Walt agree on this, it’s really worrisome.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If the field manager and the GM are at odds over personnel and usage
It would seem the problem is truly in Houston and not aboard the crippled Apollo 13.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Wouldn't it be the opposite?
I think they have too much love for Alonso to try him in three spots and not just send him off to a team where he can play his natural position and not have to put up with all the relearning bullshit.
If END was healthy, I would probably want him and Frazier to split evenly at first, and see who wins
my guess is Frazier would, but the Reds might as well make sure END is a hack before throwing him away.
I'm going to start my own Reds blog with blackjack and hookers, in fact forget the blog.
If it doesn't blow my mind
it’s only because I am accustomed to Dusty being an idiot
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
by kcgard2 on Aug 4, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still think END has potential, but they probably should have traded him
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He has potential to hit 20 homers
and still have an OBP below .300
It feels so nice to be back to normal
.280/.290/.450
Or some such crap.
Rob Deer returns!
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
He won't hit .280
I was thinking something like .250/.275/.450
This is real Wily Mo stuff we’re talking about.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Wily Mo could only hit a fastball
Juan Francisco gets a double off a ball that would bounce off the plate.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 4, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
In the new dead ball era
If you slug .500 and OBP .300, you’re a good player
.888 OPS at AAA through age 24.
He’s probably Wily Mo, but we still don’t know for sure.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark Reynolds is Mark Reynolds with no glove
And he still has a job!
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
Mark Reynolds strikes out a ton (way more than END) but he also walks a lot. END would probably walk about 15 times over a full season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Reynolds also has a veteran career behind him
As much as we fans live on the what-have-you-done-lately principle, the aspect of loyalty, tenure and friendships do matter in all walks of life, and baseball isn’t immune.
Reynolds and END may have similar skills, I agree.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Reynolds and END are very dissimilar players
The only thing they have in common is good power. Reynolds career BB rates is almost 12%, and his K rate is nearly 33%. END makes much better contact but takes far fewer walks.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And most importantly,
END’s BB/K ratio is far, far worse than Reynold’s.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
My point was not to compare talent, but tenure.
END will never make a big-league roster. Not for long.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
You guys don't know shit.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 4, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I see ... I was going to agree with you.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I think END's lack of walks is a cultural thing
He pushes A LOT of counts to 3-2 and just doesn’t take the 4th ball. I have been pretty damn underwhelmed with Frazier at 3rd. Defensively his range is HORRIBLE.
If Rolen is in the field last night that 2 run double is a DP.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 4, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't walk off the island!
Didn’t seem to affect EdE, though.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Culture or choice, END can't make anyone's lineup ...
… if he can’t play defense or put the ball in play.
Add in the fact that he’s been hurt twice this year, and while one of them was a hammy, he still is “hurt.”
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
It wasn't a great play, but
to be fair, he was pushed in pretty far. If he had been playing back where he normally would, he gets it, and I’m not sure Rolen or Cairo get it either if they’re as close to home as Frazier was.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Agreed, it sucked because they were playing in to protect the lead
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I don't think you'd much more than a box of balls and a bag of bats for Fiassco
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
He was (and may still be) a viable prospect
He would have been raking again at AAA if not for injuries.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't know shit, either.
Glenn is right – we have to give him a chance to succeed before we declare him a failure. Anything less is negative, know-it-all horseshit.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 4, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The visual cracked me up, well done
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I don't often write anything of value on this site
because, well, that’s not my role, but I’m one of the more skilled scout eyes here (next to Turtle and Mr. Dirt). That is a bold statement, I know, sorry, suck it. It is the reason that I’ll always prefer Mike Leake to Travis Wood. Wood’s handedness is the only thing that makes him interesting, but Leake has it all over him in terms of pure skill. And, it’s not even close.
Here’s what I know, for sure, about Francisco: He’s a mirage. His power comes purely from strength. He has an awful, long, swooping swing. He cannot hit any breaking ball in an off count. He can barely touch a non-hanger in an expected count. The only thing he lacks from a bad approach point of view is a big stride, but he’s close to that, as well. He has awful pitch recognition and he would rather die than walk. He has no idea how to approach each zone based on count and he never, ever shortens his swing to adjust for such. In short, he’s an incomplete hitter. He will homer quite a bit, but he’ll drive you mad in a way that Adam Dunn could never fathom.He is not the future at 3rd. He is AAAA fodder.
Yes, there is no evidence. This is only an observation. I’d be happy to continue the conversation and defend my position.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 4, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised if there's anyone willing to argue that END is a viable MLB 3B option
he’s entertaining to watch at the plate, to say the least, but that’s about it
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 4, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't have said it better!
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
FWIW, I agree with you
I believe it’s a LOT more important to watch a guy than to pore over his numbers at various levels. I’m talking a 90/10 split.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I don't disagree with your scouting report at all.
But the thing is, he’s been successful at every level he’s played. And his success hasn’t just been Rob Deer power, as he’s hit around .280 at every stop.
I just think it’s silly to dismiss a AAA all-star without even giving him a shot. He’s had these same flaws you describe at every level, and he’s been successful at every level. Isn’t it possible that the guy has enough talent to overcome these flaws?
There has never been a position player taller than 6’8" Tony Clark. Would we not give a successful AAA prospect a shot at MLB success because he was 6’10", and therefore had the fundamental flaw of having a strike zone so large that no one had ever made it to the major leagues before?
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
FWIW - Tony Clark wore 10 different MLB uniform numbers.
I wonder if that’s a record…
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
So did Ernie Lombardi
There should’ve been 26 facts!
I think it was much more common to switch uni numbers back in the day.
by ken on Aug 5, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Math says we're still alive
And I’m not about to start using sense.
ALL YOU FAT LADIES, KEEP YOUR MOUTHS SHUT
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
what is the magic number, btw?
how close are we?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on the teams ahead of us
If we stay this far back, it will be mid-Sept before elimination.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Elimination number is currently 44. It would not go higher, no matter what.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
hmmm
I wonder who is singing the national anthem at Wrigley tomorrow.
"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane
Let's hope it's memorable
HENDRIX AT WOODSTOCK, A CLASSIC
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Is that black guy
holding back a chubby?
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not the only one.
Rowr!
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
They missed the boat on Ramon
The Giants were more desperate for his services than any team will probably be this off season if he were to accept arb from the Reds and be traded him with a full season of salary above what he’s paid this year.
If he declines, the Reds get back a riskier return in a supplemental draft pick than they would have gotten in July.
Still, they need to offer him arb. It’s stupid not to cash in on his season, even if it means trading him in desperation in ’12.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 4, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
If the Giants slip back, it's possible he could get through to them via waivers
But yeah, that was a wasted opportunity.
I doubt they offer him arb. He’s an old catcher who will cost the signing team a pick. There would be a decent chance that he’ll accept arb.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's a big deal if he does accept arb
He could expect to make around $4 mil next year, which is still a reasonable and tradeable salary. A number of teams will be looking for catching help this winter/next spring and they could probably get a useful piece for him.
Of course, I think they could have gotten a much more useful piece last week.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but then Meso is delayed for another couple of months
And a few million is still a few million.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
I think he could be moved in the winter, or during spring training.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Et tu Scrabbles?
I guess you’re right though, it’s over
I vote to send Dusty on a fishing trip and let Votto manage. That way, we can have young guys doing everything. I also strongly believe that Votto understands new stats and the science of baseball better than Dusty
I am the same age as dusty and I understand the new stats and science of baseball better than Douchsty.
Hmmmm
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
But are you chock-full of old-timey baseball wisdom?
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Glenn as a matter of fact I am...E,G,
Tie game. Runners at 1st and 3rd. 2 out bottom of the 9th. Albert Pukeholes is at the bat.
Androidis is on the mound. I call time and go to the mound to calm and instruct my
pitcher with some old-timey wisdom:
Me: You’re doing great big guy.
A: Si
Me: Don’t let this guy scare you, he’s good but you’re better’
A: Si
Me: We got an open base and Halliday is next…who do you want to pitch to?“
A: Si
Me: Christ on a Hubcap you don’t understand a fucking word I’ve said you”
A: Si
Me: “Ramon tell this clown to hit Sir PukeHole upside the head with a 105 mph hearter”
Ramon: What about Halliday?
Me: “All right guys go get ’em”
Pretty simple basic old-timey logic – don’t let their best player beat you.
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
by Madville on Aug 5, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
it would make this seaosn more than worthwhile
if you took over the managerial job for the remainder of the season.
I wanna see jch do it
He’d have the defense stand in formation like a wang, just to be awesome
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
by supergrover on Aug 4, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's see ... if a fish and a half costs a buck and a half
How many bushels of corn will feed the herd?
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Votto is brilliant.
Sometimes I read a book and think, “I bet Joey Votto would enjoy that.” I’m being serious.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Awww... I think we have a fledgling stalker in our midst!
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes, when I'm masrbating
I think “I bet Joey Votto would enjoy that”
but then I go limp
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
jch thinks this is a picture of Katy Perry.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 4, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's a welcoming mouth underneath that orthodontia.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
I KITHED A GIRL
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
by boobs on Aug 4, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Football's stupid!
I was so happy that last year allowed me to both ignore the Bengals and prevented the shift of attention I usually effect in September when the Reds are long gone and my adopted city is excited about whatever the Red Sox are up to. But now I find myself paying attention to the Bengals again (at least Jerome Simpson is charming on twitter) and starting to watch Red Sox scores more closely. Jacoby Ellsbury is very good, by the way. Oh screw it all.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 12:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I hate football
once the Reds are done, and by done I mean the season is officially over, I’ll move on to finding obscure TV on DVD and binge watching to console myself. If it works well, I’ll be in a hibernation like stupor until Spring Training
by Red_Poodle on Aug 4, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You folks who aren't forced to gag on the Chicago Bears ...
… or maybe accidentally like pro football, I envy you. Hell, I can’t even root for my alma mater in football because we sucked so bad at it back in the 90s, they dropped the program.
Do not make me root for I-fucking-U or Pur-fucking-due or even Notre-fucking-Dame.
Go Boise!
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Come on over to the Colts. We won't call you a front runner.
Still plenty of room on the bandwagon from all you people screwed by ownership in Chicago and Cincinnati.
Ewwww... so white... so fat...
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
DOUGHEY, I'M NOT ANGRY ANY MOOOORE
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
I felt like posting a link to that song
when Votto got off the schneid, but of course I was never really angry at Joey, so it didn’t make sense
Sorry, Colts screwed their own pooch by tanking that Jets game.
I was leaning toward being a fan until that one. It’s marginally acceptable here in NW Indiana. The other choice is the Lions (roar)
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
That was fucking bullshit
Caldwell deserved to lose the SB for doing that.
"Oh, everything looks bad if you remember it."
he deserved to be fired
i can’t help but feel the colts threw away the end of peyton manning’s prime by hiring him as coach.
This
He’s turrible, he fucked up that Jets playoff game with the timeout, he only got to the SB in 2009 or whatever it was because of Dungy’s lingering effect, and he’s terrible.
"Oh, everything looks bad if you remember it."
You guys can all just go to hell
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn't seen his face in ages.
My blood pressure was finally regulating. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmiiiiiiit.
What?
Over? Did you say “over?” Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Of course the season is realistically and effectively over 2 days before I have the best tickets to a Reds game I've ever had
Of course
"Oh, everything looks bad if you remember it."
Meh, whatever.
We’re all used to enjoying ourselves at meaningless games. It’s what Reds fans do best.
by the finest muffins on Aug 4, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If D-Train keeps putting quality starts on the board I'd give him 2 years, 5 million in a heartbeat
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
by chesirecat on Aug 4, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't give him 2 years
No way. 1 year and 2 mil is what I would offer.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 4, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I would think about a vesting option for the second year, at something like 160 innings. But no way would I guarantee it.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd offer him right now a guaranteed MLB 1-year extention at $750k.
and any incentives he wants with a 2nd year team option of $2MM.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
I like both of these options
but Petey I think you’re lowballing a little bit. And coming from me, that’s really lowballing.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
The man has had five good starts in a row after years of sucking.
To quote Pulp Fiction, “Let’s not go sucking each other’s dicks just yet.”
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 4, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I don’t really believe in him and never really have. But Miguel Cairo got $1 million for 2 years, and he was never in any kind of consideration for anything near a full-time job. I think DTrain is gonna have the option to start somewhere if he wants.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
that is Jim Bowden-esque.
I'm going to start my own Reds blog with blackjack and hookers, in fact forget the blog.
The Mustache
Outside of Chapman, Lecure has been the most reliable bullpen arm we’ve had. Seems to me that he is always coming into tough spots and executing well.
If they end up going the Chapman to Starter route next year, I would love to see him given the chance to close.
"Avoid the Clap, Jimmy Dugan. That's good advice!"
I really think Jocko
will sign/trade for a proven closer this off season. I just hope they don’t give Masset a shot, I think that will end badly.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just as long as we don't give up a pick signing a type A closer
That would be idiotic.
If we keep nosediving, our top pick will be protected
A Type A might make some sense in that case.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Walt has a history of turning shitty relievers into effective closers
and he’s smart enough to know this team has bigger problems than a closer
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Of the 5 main reasons why we sucked this year
The lack of effective back-end-of-the-pen help is in the top 5.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Hmm
3B
LF
Bronson
Volquez/Wood
Back of the pen
You are probably right, but I hope Walt deals with LF,3B, and SP first.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
See, I'd lump the Bronson/Volquez/Wood into one item
Call it middle of the rotation
Then again, we could just lump all of it under
1. Pitching
2. Defense
3. Hitting
4. Shitty other teams playing better than us
5. Managing
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
SS is solved with the arrival of the Cozby Show
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
So it's not in the top-5 reasons why we sucked?
Since, you know, Coz played all of 8 games or so.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I disagree
1. Bronson/Volquez/Wood sucking
2. Dusty’s managing of pitchers in the 5-8th innings
3. hitting in the 4 hole
4. hitting at SS
5. Injuries (Cueto/Bailey/“Chapman”/Rolen/Cozart)
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Aug 4, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe that Aroldis will start briefly, it will go poorly, and he will become the closer
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Boo!
Boo this man!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 5, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe the children are our future.
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
i still cant understand...
why Willis batted in the 7th (though grateful for the HR) and didnt pitch the bottom of the inning. If he wasnt going to pitch, why not a pitch hitter? I would have at least let him pitch until a runner got on base. Or is this just one of Dusty’s fool me once shame on me routines?
He bounced two pitches in a row to the plate
And was back to doing the high leg kick. I thought it was a good idea to pull him there and try to let our bullpen finish off the game.
well, if he gets to hit for himself,
why not Frazier…
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
He is a solid hitter, and there were 2 outs and nobody on and the game was tied
It made a lot of sense, why burn a PH when he could be more useful later in the game.
If the Reds had loaded the bases, and were down I bet a pinch hitter comes to the plate.
But seriously why burn Alonso, Heisey, or whatever catcher didn’t start in that spot last night, or put up a weak hitting Janish?
I'm going to start my own Reds blog with blackjack and hookers, in fact forget the blog.
willis will probably be his own pinch-hitter the rest of the year
and should be
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
As a pinch hitter, Willis batted for himself.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
This season is a lost cause but only because of the pitching. I think everyone agrees the outfield and infield have a lot of above avg players.
I agree with you.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree.
I'm going to start my own Reds blog with blackjack and hookers, in fact forget the blog.
I don't think you do.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Aug 4, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
We're still in pythagorean first!
This season is over. I concede.
The only thing that really pisses me off is that I am about to watch 50-some games of Dusty still starting the veterans.
sigh
Go, Reds! You’re still my favorite team!
"If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1
That pisses me off too, Petey.
It really does. Especially the Frazier situation.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I agree with you
I’m going to be witching I just hope I’m watching the future and not the decrepit past
this is a question for Bubba (or anyone else in the know)
apparently no “professional cameras” are allowed at the Macca concert tonight. My friend has tickets and is going and was wondering if he could take a small digital camera. Any idea if that wouldn’t fall under professional cameras?
I'd say they would probably say no the camera, depending.
If you are gonna hold it up and take a snapshot of the stage, hell, 2,000 fans are going to do that.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Your friend might just consider calling up Great American.
It might take awhile to find someone who knows, but it’s worth a shot.
Singer: So did you know you can bring a gun in here now?
'Mache: I BROUGHT TWO! **flexes**
General office phone number:
(513) 765-7000
Singer: So did you know you can bring a gun in here now?
'Mache: I BROUGHT TWO! **flexes**
DEAR LORD:
PLEASE LET DOUCHSTY PLAY YONDER AT HIS ORIGIANL POSITION OF 3RD BASE SO THAT TODD CAN PLAY LEFT FIELD. AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT LORD GET COZART BACK REAL QUICK AND IF YOU WOULD LORD PLEASE FIRE MARK BERRY AND GOD, WHY DID YOU TAKE MY CONTROL AWAY…GIVE IT BACK DAMN IT. IN WALT’S NAME I PRAY
AMEN DUDE.
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
by Madville on Aug 4, 2011 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Yadier Molina gets a 5 game suspension.
I mean, whatever. Not like it matters or anything.
Just, whatever.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Nurse: He needs more blankets and he needs less blankets!
Doctor: [gravely] I'm afraid you're right.
by DannyGraves on Aug 4, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Same suspension as Alomar
I would have guessed 3-4 games for Yadier, because it’s not as clear as Alomar that his spitting was intentional.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Old Hoss Radbourn said on twitter
They probably added a game or two for the neck tattoo. Which seems completely fair.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Aug 4, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
i just saw the video for the first time
that was a strike anyway
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
So it's 4 games ... he'd probably sit one of them anyhow
Catchers usually do.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
commenters at VEB seem to think it was a "terrible, ridiculous call"
um, sure looked like a strike. at the very least it was borderline and could have gone either way.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Is it worth being suspended in the middle of a pennant race?
The man has been around the batter’s box for years and he knows what a hitter can say and get away with.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
VEB really
like the Cardinals for some reason. I think they might be biased.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
This was linked at the Reposter the other day
Maybe not a strike, but way too close to take with two strikes. And for a catcher to argue that call is baffling.
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I thought it looked inside when I was watching the video yesterday
still nowhere near far enough to blow up like he did.
that looks further off the plate than the view I saw, to be fair.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Cardinal fan, but I come in peace
I happen to have three old scorecards from Crosley Field (1957) which I would be happen to mail to someone who might like having them.
Not in great shape but still intact.
My e-mail addy is on my profile
that's very cool
I hope someone takes you up on them.
\you won’t put anthrax in it, will you ;)
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
I'd get in touch with the Reds Hall of Fame
They might know a buyer/user/trader … or might relish the things for their own collection.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
by johnu1 on Aug 5, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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