Nothing witty. We just lost a series to the Astros after the trade deadline. Reds lose, 5-4.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 3, 2011 11:44 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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Joe Nuxhall Memorial Honorary Star of the Game
Joey Votto. I understand the Bautista trade talk, but I don't like it. Votto's something special, and I like deluding myself into believing that he'll play his whole career in Cincinnati. Anyway, he had three hits tonight, including two doubles, and a run. Honorable mentions go to Dontrelle Willis (a credible six innings, giving up only two runs, and a home run of his own), and Todd "Please Frazier Answer in the Form of a Question" (home run!).
Key Plays
- Dontrelle Willis, like some 18th century French peasant, found himself victimized by the Bourgeois when Jason Bourgeois led off the bottom of the first with a dribbler of a single to third. One out later, J.D. Martinez hit a home run. Astros lead, 2-0.
- The Reds couldn't answer at all until the fifth inning. Then Todd Frazier hit a home run. Astros lead, 2-1.
- Next inning, Joey Votto hit a one out double, and scored when Brandon Phillips singled. The Astros might have had a play at the plate on Votto, but there was no throw. Game tied, 2-2.
- Willis escaped a situation with runners on second and third with one out in the bottom of the sixth. He was set to leave the game as a pitcher, but stayed in to hit... and socked a homer! Reds lead, 3-2.
- Unfortunately, the pitching. Logan Ondrusek and Nick Masset, two former stalwarts, seem utterly unreliable these days. Tonight it was Masset's turn. He walked pinch hitter Brian Bogusevic, then Jason Bourgeois and Jose Altuve both reached on bunt singles. Bases loaded, no outs, and J.D. Martinez sent a double into the left field corner. Two runs scored, and hopes of Dontrelle Willis's first win as a Red vanished. Masset intentionally walked Carlos Lee, loading the bases again, then gave way to Sam LeCure. Sam Wow needed only five pitches to get out of the threat, coaxing a double play out of Jason Michaels and a pop up from Jimmy Paredes. Astros lead, 4-3.
- But because baseball is cruel, Sam LeCure, the hero of the seventh inning, gave up a home run to Humberto Quintero in the eighth. Astros lead, 5-3.
- And because baseball is cruel, the Reds launched an insufficient rally in the ninth inning. Jay Bruce singled off Mark Melancon, and advanced a base each time as Fred Lewis and Ramon Hernandez grounded out. Pinch hitter Yonder Alonso singled, bringing in Bruce. Miguel Cairo pinch hit, and flew out. Astros win, 5-4.
Other Notes
- Dontrelle Willis has started five games for the Reds. Reds relievers have blown saves in three of them.
- Let's just say it again. The Reds dropped a series to the Astros... after the trade deadline. Time and again, the Reds have wilted at a moment when they need to do well. And if J.D. Martinez plays all his games against Cincinnati, he's going to make Albert Pujols look like Paul Janish.
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Seems like the season is pretty much over
Swept by the Mets
Sweep the World Champs
About to be swept by the Sto’s.
It wouldn’t hurt so much if a) we didn’t have loads of talent and b) half that talent would stop being mismanaged by vet loving Baker.
Why didn't Heisey pinch hit instead of Cairo?
by badenjr on Aug 3, 2011 11:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
why not let Frazier hit for himself?
And pinch-hit Alonso for LeCure instead of Cairo?
Frazier has seen Melancon before, because he played the last couple of years in AAA, in the IL.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
This is called doing something as a manager because you can
I have seen lineup after lineup that just works. The guys have been in the game, have a feel for the batter’s box, the lighting, the pace of the game and … whammo … Dusty pulls a situational switch. There is such a thing as built-in momentum.
This applies to lineups too. How do guys ever get into a streak if they play every other damned game?
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Hold up, hoss
If you play them too long, they will eventually slump. You don’t want a slumping player out there every day now, do you?
\Or something like that
\don’t underestimate senseless tries, yet
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
So will Walt finally realize the Reds aren't realistically in it any more
and go ahead and trade Ramon Hernandez? It’s time to get Mesoraco’s feet wet in the bigs so he’s ready to from Day 1 in 2012.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
gonna be hard to do that now
Past the waiver deadline and all.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Ramon might clear waivers to the Giants
why would a non-contender want him? And if the Diamondbacks block, work out a trade with them…
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
the D- Backs are in 1st now
Giants would have 1st choice.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't the D-Backs lose today?
I think the Giants are in 1st right now
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
DBacks snuck into first huh?
I missed that….so even better for working a deal. Really, there’s no reason for a non-contender to put in a claim…..just make a trade with whoever claims him.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
D-backs don't have to actually do a trade
to block one.
Their only risk is the Reds could dump Ramon and his salary on them for nothing. Which doesn’t seem likely.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I know, but the D-backs could decide they want him and work out a deal
Seems unlikely since they have Montero….but adding another decent bat like Ramon may still help them.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
it's possible, and Walt should be working on it
But it seems like the guys who make it through waivers are really terrible (players nobody really wants much) – and guys who are really expensive (players with contracts so scary that teams are afraid to block them for fear of being stuck with them).
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I figure only 3 teams would have incentive (and opportunity) to block
Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Arizona (unless they were in first when he hit waivers). Pitts and St. Louis may just want to screw with the Reds.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pirates actually need a catcher, don't they?
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes they do
But I doubt the Reds would want to allow the Pirates to have Hernandez at all since they’re in the same division. I would still try to work out a trade with them, though.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Hernandez for McCutchen
Let’s start the rumors now.
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
St. Loser would snatch CMM ...
If Yadi goes down, they’re toast. Laird isn’t very good.
Most teams are if their top guy goes down.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
So if a guy gets waived Aug. 1
When is the earliest he can be traded? Aug. 5?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Aug 4, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think waivers are 72 hours
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
29 other teams, I can think of three or 4 that would want CMM.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I don’t see any logic in the Bautista/Votto talks. I’m sure he would love to play for his home town, but if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Dusty is not the one giving up runs in the sixth inning on. Our bullpen outside of Cordero and Chapman is terrible. Our starting pitching isn’t the most attractive but outside of the Phillies, who does?
although it's worth acknowledging
it was Votto’s “error” that allowed the bunt “hit” that ended up being the go-ahead run in the 8th.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
what happened there?
I had actually stepped away when Masset imploded and got back after the mess was made
Dusty wasn't pleased
Things fell apart at soon as Willis left. Masset walked pinch-hitter Brian Bogusevic four pitches — none was close — to start the seventh. Jason Bourgeois put down a bunt to try to sacrifice. First baseman Joey Votto fielded it and looked toward second. The hesitation was more than enough for the speedy Bourgeois to beat it.
Jose Altuve went up to sacrifice, too. Masset booted the ball. All hands safe, bases loaded no out.
…"Those leadoff walks," Baker said. "Those messed up bunt plays without an out. You can’t give away outs. Five outs. You’ve got to take outs when you get them."
(From teh Fay)
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
teh Fay was pretty blunt tonight
The Astros traded nearly every veteran they had. Many of the players playing against the Reds were at Double-A Corpus Christi last week. But the Astros still took two of three.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
it is disgusting
it reminds me of when 3 of our best guys were facing Wilson Valdez and lost. I think that sums up this season
Now that I think about it though
I have tried to forget about alot of things this season. Oh well, FREE YONDER!
Cingrani for 2012 Closer!
I get pretty steamed and mention it often here ...
You really only have to watch anecdotal games to see that some of our relief pitchers, and Masset is the key offender, are not prepared to take the mound. How this happens is a puzzle and I don’t see other teams with this problem. Some probably do. “Not even close” is another way of putting it. Ondrusek does it too sometimes. Jordan Smith did it. Bray isn’t as bad.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
While there are times he makes mistakes...
in this case, he’s okay. Old school grammarians will insist on “none” being always singular; truthfully the singular or plural are both correct. So “None is…” or “None are…” are both correct—hence, “none was…” or “none were…” are as well.
Seems to me to be a clarity issue.
If I just read the sentence “None was close.” out of context, and asked, “None of what?”, you’d probably answer, “None of the four pitches.” Since pitches is plural, seems like none should have been plural.
Born Small... Now Huge... Winning... Bring it..!
thanks
it does sound like Votto may have cost us there but it wasn’t a classic error. He likes to play aggressive defense and sometimes makes bad.dangerous decision in an attempt to cut down lead runners. It sounds like Masset messed it up more and since I prefer to blame Masset, I’ll pin it on him.
the Astros announcers
called it a “brain cramp.” He didn’t know what he was going to do with the ball until he picked it up, and was left standing there trying to decide with a really speedy runner flying toward first.
Me, I’m wondering about that Martinez double that got past Frazier. That was really the killing blow. Could he have gotten that? Would Miggy have gotten that?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Hard hit ball, down the line.
The problem is the bases are loaded and nobody out. There isn’t a clear strategy for the 3B in that situation. The pitcher hasn’t had any luck and they have already bunted twice. Play in or play back? What play to make … go home or try for a 5-4-3.
Not saying who would or would not get the ball. Frazier and the rest of the defense was nailed to the wall, thanks to that pitching disaster.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Votto gets gridlock sometimes on flips to pitchers covering.
I can’t tell if it’s him or the pitchers. But he has not won any shiny stars for playing 1B this year, for anybody who thinks he should get a GG.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Missed in the recap
Joey soft. Tossed the. Ball to first. The runner barely beat the throw (actually was a tie). Any attempt at. A real throw. And the runner is out.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
Not sure what you are trying to do here
But. I like. It.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Aug 4, 2011 8:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol
no f idea
Was on the iPad.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
What.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
by supergrover on Aug 4, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Do
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
by supergrover on Aug 4, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
you mean?
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
by supergrover on Aug 4, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can there be a rule that if there are two outs and if the tying or winning run is at the plate,
the batter is not allowed to swing at the first pitch? Maybe Miguel saw something he really liked, but that is an especially frustrating way to lose a very frustrating game. You don’t even have time to build up hopeful suspense.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 12:05 AM EDT reply actions
not as long as Dusty Baker's in charge
He likes his hitters to be aggressive, and swing the bat early in the count.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
obligatory
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
by sexsalad on Aug 4, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I'd attack a pitch I could handle, no matter what the count.
Later in the count, the pitcher gets the edge anyhow.
It only seems crappy because it didn’t fall in.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
The important thing is, we outscored Houston in the series
by ken on Aug 4, 2011 12:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Gotta maintain that positive run differential!
Then people can talk about how this team has just been unlucky and is going to go on a tear once it all evens out.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
I really thinik
that the consistent failure combined with the positive run differential is evidence that Dusty is mismanaging close games
Don't we have a run differential that puts us 5th or so in all the history of baseball?
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I was thinking that the Reds probably feel very unomtivated by now
but the Cubs can’t possibly care about any of their games at this point, at least not very much, so we can probably still beat them even if a listless, gutted version of the team shows up on Friday
umm
They kicked the Pirates’ butts. I don’t think motivation is a problem.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
1-0 is not exactly a butt kicking!
but it’s true they did take care of the Pirates, however they could barely compete with the Cardinals
they swept the Pirates
and won 11-6 yesterday.
I’m a little nervous about this Cubs series.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
we probably should be worried
but Stubbs will do something useful for a change when we play the Cubs.
I can't say the Reds could take 2 out of 3 from the Bats.
Discussing the CF’s motivation seems somewhat arcane.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I think the Reds take the bad teams for granted
I think they felt the ’stros would be a cake walk going in and did not expect them to play as they did. Those kids want to prove they belong in the MLB.
As for the Cubs, who knows what motivates them. But I do know if we lose on Friday, we are closer to fifth than to first.
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
Young players fighting for a roster spot are going to give it their all, no matter how hopeless it is.
Dusty will never do it, but maybe he’d have more success at this point if he put the kids and scrubs in. The guys just happy to be in the big leagues. Might provide a spark for the jaded old vets.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
They will also make mistakes that we will need to forgive as fans, I guess
like Yonder the other night on that ball that dropped in front of him. Sounds like Frazier froze on that ball tonight. There’s any number of fingers to point at the losses if you really want to.
It sounds like defense is the thing standing in the way of both Yonder and Frazier getting more consistent playing time on a team that seems to be high on good D.
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but
If the alternatives are Lewis and Cairo, I’m not sure we should be worrying too much about their defense.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Aug 4, 2011 8:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yabbut Reds fans in general are not a forgiving lot
Dunn was a cancer, Stubbs and Bruce should have gone to AAA last year, Votto and Stubbs should be traded away, Massett is worthless.
Were a season removed from the playoffs and underperforming. Spending some time reading an MLB.com message board you’d think last year never happened.
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If you do not beat bad teams, guess what?
You become one of them.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
by johnu1 on Aug 4, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I imagine Castellini is going ballistic
because of all the failure. I’m pretty sure season ticket sales will be down next year along with attendance
I bring this up
because he will probably pressure Walt to do something about it—something ultimately crazy and or destructive
Something awesomely crazy!
Like signing a utility free agent or two, probably bringing CoCo and CMM back to drive us insane, and signing Volquez to a two year contract. YEEAH!
by Cuetotally Amazing on Aug 4, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I will have to say, that after getting greased by the Frisco Astros ...
… here at midnight, CDT, there are still 40 comments on the recap. It says something about the virility of our minds. And I, for one, am not inclined to dismiss that as innocuous.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
So, do we need to come up with a statistic ...
… that shows really how crappy a pitcher is?
BS … blown save
L … loss
just doesn’t seem to get it.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
Maybe their Negative Tweet Rate?
Number of tweets, per second, containing the name of the pitcher and one or more negative adjectives used to describe him. Capslocked tweets will be weighed heavier.
Born Small... Now Huge... Winning... Bring it..!
I just don't know
how you can bring someone into a one-run ballgame who’s been struggling as bad as Masset. And to top it all off, no one ready in the bullpen after one batter. So, so many mismanaged games.
twitter - MattAnderson19
by in_Votto_We_Trust on Aug 4, 2011 3:16 AM EDT reply actions
If Dusty's description above is acurate
it was a walk and two misplayed bunts. How does a manager plan for that? Is Votto’s hesitation really a reason to start the ’pen up again?
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Masset misplayed one of the bunts and walked the first batter.
When you walk the first guy on four pitches in a one run ballgame, that should clue your manager into the failure that is coming. But Dusty is stubborn and/or stupid, so it didn’t.
that's not necessarily true
Regardless, the bases would not have been loaded for the two run double if Votto doesn’t hesitate on that play. Then it’s man on second, one out, and a different inning altogether.
While Massett misplayed the bunt, his pitching wasn’t entirely responsible right away, so Dusty would have no reason to start LeCure right away.
Everyone’s quick to blame Dusty for everything. I just don’t see it in this particular instance.
by Chester Drawers on Aug 4, 2011 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Masset has a propensity
to not react well to adversity.
To claim otherwise is levity.
To absolve Dusty in it’s entirety
would be an act of great absuridty.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
by supergrover on Aug 4, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This comment does not get the credit it deserves.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
The "it's" is bothering me
but I enjoy the comment
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
This kind of loss hurts.
It’s a lot easier to ragequit my browser than I thought when I follow these games on Gameday.
I am revising my earlier assessment of the 2011 Red's season:
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
by Madville on Aug 4, 2011 6:43 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I can see the face of Dusty Baker on my toast!
It’s a miracle!
by Don, the Rebel without a Blog on Aug 4, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about that Fred Lewis start?
0-4. Hardly any tough plays in LF. Solid managing there Dusty.
Alonso only was 1-1 with an RBI. Heisey sits the bench as well.
So I've officially switched over
It happens every year, except last year. Usually it happens in June or early July.
I’ve switched over to thinking of Reds games like minor league games. I don’t care if they win or lose, I’m just watching to see how individuals play to get a gauge on the future. This is usually accompanied by me no longer watching games, but just checking boxscores.
I know I don’t represent the average Reds fan, but if I lived in Cincy, the ONLY reason I would go to a game is if Meso, Frazier, and Alonso were starting almost every game. Otherwise, this team holds very little interest for me for the remainder of the season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Aug 4, 2011 8:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
And Cozart and Alonso as well.
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
Sheldon
Dropping two of three to the team with the worst record in baseball? In the voice of Wallace Shawn’s character Vizzini in "The Princess Bride" …. inconceivable!
I remember walking to Minute Maid Park Monday seeing a crane remove a huge Hunter Pence banner outside the stadium. The Astros were reeling from losing two stars in deadline trades and having to start young players — some straight from Double-A. Not winning this series seemed like something that wouldn’t happen to the Reds, or even couldn’t.
This sucks. I really thought 2011 would be the year.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
we've really thought 2011 would be the year
since 2007.
This sucks so bad. So, so bad.
The thing that shivers me timbers the most is that I don’t even know where to go to start fixing this team. The 3b sitch is bad and getting worse, the bullpen is falling apart, the manager is a stubborn stumbling roadblock, and there really aren’t that many ready made solutions to those problems (via trade or off season FA).
I’ve resigned myself to conceding there are only 2 moves that galvanize both the team and the fans for 2012: 1) make, and announce, Alonso as the full time LF; 2) make Chapman a starter.
Short of firing Baker, those are the two things I can see that will kick out the malaise that this season has produced.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 9:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
third base (and Arroyo) are trouble
We can only hope they rebound next year.
Not too worried about the pen. The bullpen is always a crapshoot.
I want to see Chapman be a starter, but if he is, he should be in Louisville next year, not Cincinnati. The Reds will have to have some patience with him, and I don’t think they will.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't think it's as bad as all that.
I remember feeling that way at this time in 2008. The team had just traded Dunn and Griffey, Corey Patterson was in CF, they were running Jolbert Cabrera out to SS on a regular basis, Paul Bako was getting significant playing time, Josh Fogg was a viable option in the rotation, and the team allowed 100 more runs than it scored.
This is not that team. There aren’t that many fixes that need to be made. 3B and LF are still questions, but there are very viable in house solutions for both. The rotation needs shoring up, but this is still an organization with a lot of options there, especially if Chapman is included.
And, despite the snarkiness of copulationgreens, this team has been unlucky and is much better than its record. Like Dougdirt said on his site today, the reason this team has underperformed (Arroyo, Gomes, Wood, Volquez, Rolen, Janteria) are due to older guys (except Wood), but there are a bunch of younger players who can fill those voids. I just hope they get a chance.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Aug 4, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the optimism I've been looking for.
Also for “copulationgreens.”
by the finest muffins on Aug 4, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I usually rec any mention of The Princess Bride.
But not this time. I’m too depressed.
by the finest muffins on Aug 4, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
short bench?
Fay’s article quotes Dusty as saying he let Willis hit for himself because they’re a man short on the bench.
What? Was somebody sick or something?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah but,
Dontrelle has 9 HR in 427 PA and Janish has 7 HR in 871 PA. Willis has a career OPS+ of 71 and Janish is at 64. Pretty sad commentary on Janish. I think the Janish experience should end after this season.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 4, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
It's time for the Reds to sell high on Willis
D-Train, Cordero and Hernandez need to be dealt in the next week or so.
Easier said than done
There is zero chance that DTrain and Hernandez make it through waivers. So you’d only have 1 team to deal with, and they probably wouldn’t be willing to give up much for either player. CoCo might make it through waivers, and I agree he should be dealt. I also think they should just put Ramon on waivers and see what they can get for him from the team that claims him.
Willis would be dumb though. He’s on a small deal that expires this year, so he has little trade value, and by doing it now you are basically limiting his market to the one team that claims him.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
dont know about yoos guys
But I want Willis back after this season.
He’s pitched well, he’s got a solid relationship w/ Dusty and the FO, and if he can be brought back relatively inexpensively, that frees up Bailey, Wood, or Volquez to be trade bait for something needed.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 10:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd like to see him back too...
in the bullpen. Unfortunately, I bet he’ll get a team to guarantee him a rotation spot in the offseason, and I don’t think the Reds should do that. He’s been perfectly serviceable, but I don’t trust him that much going forward.
I think he’d be great out the ’pen, though, mostly as a LOOGY or as another long man option.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
On top of all that... he just hasn't been that good for us.
Look at his stats. He hasn’t even won a game yet this year.
I don't think it would be a bad idea at all to offer him a spot in the rotation.
He’s pitching well, he pitched well in the past and he has a legitimate reason why he stopped doing so for a while (anxiety issues are no joke, as we know with Votto.) With how weak our rotation is I’d almost go as far as to say the ball is in his court in the offseason. If he wants to sign back with the Reds, he’s got the spot.
Cueto-Bailey-Arroyo (because of the contract, of course)-Leake should be in the rotation. Beyond that, I wouldn’t say you can count on Volquez or Wood going forward at all, and besides, Walt might pull a blockbuster deal involving one if not both of them at some point during the offseason. Having Willis to fill in that fifth spot would be great.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
Dontrelle was in the running for a rotation spot in the spring
I was of the opinion that he was headed for it after he got some innings with the Bats, then he got hurt. So he isn’t exactly playing outside the margins of expectations. His health is all that’s holding him back the rest of the year and next.
So if I am the Reds, I sign this guy.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
He isn't pitching that well.
His Ks are very low, his BBs are high, and he has faced some weak offenses.
I’m not totally against considering him for the rotation next year, but he absolutely shouldn’t have one guaranteed to him. I highly doubt he’ll be one of the 4 best options (after Arroyo’s guaranteed spot) next season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Well...
Cueto is the best pitcher in the rotation. Barring injury, he has a spot locked up. Bailey will probably be in there as well because he’s pitched pretty well this year and 2012 might be his Cueto-type breakout year. They’ll want him there. I wouldn’t say Leake has a spot locked up, but with how well he’s pitched this year and the fact that he should still be improving I’d say he’ll be in there.
Now if Volquez and/or Wood pulls their head of their ass, you’re right, Willis is probably not one of the best 4 options. But I have very little faith that they will do so.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
Actually, I take that back.
I think Wood might take the fifth spot next year. But I have next to zero faith that Volquez will ever be a good MLB pitcher again.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
Willis, who was as screwed up as they come mechanically and mentally
Is a guy you want for the rotation.
But Volquez, who has better stuff and hasn’t bottomed out as far as D-Train, you have zero-faith will ever by a good pitcher again.
Seems strange. I think Volquez can get it together. I would bet it’s better than 50-50. The Reds minor league pitching team does good work and gets Chapman, Willis and others straightened out all the time.
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent.
Willis put up a much, much larger sample of sustained success at the MLB level than Volquez ever did, Volquez has now bottomed out of 2 organizations, and Willis has never shredded his elbow.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 4, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Harang'd ?
"A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer." - Robert Frost
Leake gets zero love
Over the last two seasons, dude has been clearly the best pitcher on the staff (who isn’t named Cueto) and everyone still doubts him.
fwiw, I think Wood will do quite well somewhere. Maye not in Cinci.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
He can be spectacular.
Let’s not forget that he’s dominated the Phillies several times and he carried a no hitter deep into the game he pitched against the Indians. He has major consistency issues, though. Just about all young pitchers do, but he’s worse than a lot of them with that.
If he can become consistent, he could be a very good pitcher.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
I've called him "The little girl with a curl"
There was a little girl who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead;
When she was good, she was very, very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
I imagine some contender needs a pitcher
Cueto, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake and
the 5th guy can be
Chapman, Wood, Volquez, LeCure, etc.
I think Chapman needs to start as Randy Johnson is a lot more valuable than Billy Wagner.
I don’t see any room for Willis unless we make a big offseason deal.
And that big deal would probably bring back an ace anyway. After all, Rolen is signed for big $ at 3rd and will start the season at that spot.
LF has Heisey and Alonso, and one of them would be dealt along with a pitcher and prospect if a star LF is coming back.
I think we lose D-Train for nothing if we hold him as some team will out bid us this winter.
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
We would probably lose him for next to nothing
if they tried to deal him now, anyway.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
If Edwin Jackson brings Colby Rasmus
Surely the Yankees or someone needing pitching would give a top-10 prospect for D-Train.
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad comparison
First, the Jackson trade was widely derided as terrible for the Cardinals.
Second, Dontrelle wouldn’t make it to the Yankees on waivers. There are probably 20 teams who would claim him first. Most of whom would be glad to either just take him from the Reds, or let us pull him back. No one is going to offer a good prospect for the 8 or 10 starts he could give them this year.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
If Dontrelle is or was on the market
That didn’t just happen in the last 48 hours. That established (I hope) … the Reds could have traded him to any number of teams prior to the deadline, but they didn’t. In looking at his body of work so far, I would think somebody might have asked about him. It isn’t like he’s the face of the 2012 rotation. Just going hmmmm …. over trade options.
No matter how smart you think you are, to some folks, it's just educated grunting.
I also think they should try to make Chapman a starter.
But first of all, I don’t think they will. They pretty much seem to have him on the path of a future closer. He could very well be closing games in 2012 after Coco is gone. Also, he’ll quite likely have to go back to Louisville if he wants to learn a third pitch and get his stamina where it needs to be. I personally think he should have spent most of this year in AAA working on becoming a starter and then had been called up once the divisional race was in full swing, but that didn’t happen.
I’m not saying he has to enter the MLB as an ace and he can develop as a starter in the big leagues, but I don’t think he should begin his career as an MLB starter as someone who throws two pitches and can only throw 50 pitches per game.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
Chapman used to use a changeup
Back in his Bats days as his third pitch.
I’m pretty sure Randy Johnson was a fastball-slider guy anyway. He might have added a splitfingered pitch later on.
by jeffshireman on Aug 4, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a changeup, I'm pretty sure.
He only used it about 5% of the time or something, but it was there just to fuck with hitters’ minds.
Miggy Miggy Miggy, can't you see?
Sometimes your skills just hypnotize me.
And I just love your veteran ways,
You're unappreciated and under-paid.
Reds management declares this season is over and we shall wait for the next one.
Lack of beefing up or trading up activity by the management in the past month sent clear message to Reds fans that they have declared that this season is over and the Reds will wait for the next season to re-group. I am saving my money for the rest of this season and want to see how they improve the team in the summer. In the meantime, there will be cries for Baker’s head because the more he manages, the more glaring mistakes he makes. Total ineptness all around in the coaching staff. Some bright spots but in the main, Jocketty has to show the Reds fans that the team will improve next year. So if the management has written off this year, why shouldn’t the fans?
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