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Red Reposter - Is Bronson Arroyo another Eric Milton?

TTYL ZimShawty, LOL!!

  • Bronson Arroyo will start tonight for the Reds
    which is probably the least surprising news you'll hear all week. He's (in)famously never missed a start. Despite the mono, the sore back, the carpal tunnel, and now a sore Achilles, and, of course, his plain ol' bad pitching so far this year, he'll take his turn in the rotation once again.

    I"m afraid this is starting to look like the Eric Milton situation all over again. In Milton's first year of his regrettable three-year contract, he led the league in earned runs and home runs allowed with a 66 ERA+. This year, in Arroyo's first year of his hopefully-not-regrettable three-year contract, he's allowed the second-most earned runs thus far (87 to Brett Myers' 88) and the most home runs, with a 75 ERA+. In fact, after checking both pitcher's B-Ref pages, their career numbers are gallingly similar. I really hope we aren't witnessing a Milton-esque decline from Arroyo, and my gut-instinct is that he's been unlucky so far this year and he can still bounce back. But this Milton comparison is going to keep me up at night.

  • B-Ref Blog notes that if Johnny Cueto can maintain his ERA over the last month+ of the season
    he will set the Reds franchise record for the live-ball era. After last night's gem, his ERA is down to a scintillating 1.89, which betters Dolf Luque's 1.93 in '23 and Gary Nolan's 1.99 in '72. As we all know, this franchise is not exactly known for it's pitching (these two are the only ones to record a sub-2 ERA in 1920), but it would still be quite a feat from the young fella.

  • Sheldon praises Cueto for another excellent effort
    but points out that even though he leads the universe in ERA, there is a good possibility that he will not finish in the top five in Cy Young balloting. Roy Halladay, Clayton Kershaw, Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels, Tim Lincecum, Jair Jurrjens, and Ian Kennedy, just to name a few, are all having fantastic seasons in their own way. Dusty says "he’s definitely one of the elite pitchers," and he certainly is, but missing the first month of the season is going keep him from scoring any awards. Whatevs. Kid is still awesome.

  • Brandon Phillips is nothing if not confident
    He sat down with Dusty Baker after Tuesday night's loss and laid it all on the table.

    "I had a lot of things in my heart,"
    Phillips said on Wednesday. "I just felt like that we have to have a spark at the top of the lineup. When he put me in the leadoff spot last year, I felt like I was the playmaker that kept us going. And we started winning when they put me in the leadoff spot. I could be myself. I could worry about being myself instead of worrying just about driving in runs hitting fourth. When I hit fourth, I am limited to a role and can't run or do a lot of things. I just talked to him man to man. He understood where I was coming from. I felt like it can't get worse. Let's try it and see what happens."

    I don't feel like going back and fact-checking, but I'll take BeeP's word that the team started winning when he moved to lead-off. Thing is, it likely had very little to do with, or perhaps even it was in spite of, his move to lead-off. He got on base at a paltry .303 clip out of the #1 spot last year, which kinda stinks. His overall line this year is exactly what we've come to expect from the BeePer, as he's slashed .283/.330/.417. Hopefully he can keep that up as a lead-off man, as it would be an improvement over the aggregate so far this year. Reds' lead-off hitters have slashed .251/.323/.388.

Star-divide

  • Tim Dierkes takes stock of the potential Type A free agents this winter who could make for difficult decisions in arbitration
    Two Reds make the list:

    Ramon Hernandez, Reds: I think the Reds are safe here and Hernandez would decline an arbitration offer in search of multiyear security and a guaranteed deal.

    Brandon Phillips, Reds: If the Reds decide to decline Phillips' $12MM club option, snag some picks, and move on, they'd have to consider the possibility of Phillips accepting arbitration and actually getting more than $12MM. I think the risk of the Phillies' Jimmy Rollins accepting arbitration is lower.

  • The scuttlebutt on Twitter last night was that the Diamondbacks asked about Edgar Renteria
    but the Reds said he wasn't available. I think the Reds could land a Chase Weems/Kris Negron-type of prospect in such a deal, which is pretty much inconsequential, but I'm okay with keeping him. The whole point of signing him at the beginning of the year was that he provided depth. Without him, we probably would have seen 50-70 games of Miguel Cairo or Chris Valaika at SS this year. And even though Edgar has been bad (and he's been baaaad), he's mostly likely been better than what those guys would have done. We're talking Jeff Keppinger depths of SS malfeasance. And now that he's hurt and Zack Cozart isn't coming back, there is absolutely zero chance that he gets moved. And I'm okay with that.

  • Grant Brisbee isn't ready to ring the bell for the Cardinals yet
    but man, this division race got out of hand really quick. In the past three weeks, the Brewers have won 19 of 21 and have amassed a seven game lead over the Cardinals. Remember when the Reds did the same thing in August of last year? That was awesome!

    The trouble for the Cardinals is, this is probably their last chance. Lance Berkman, Edwin Jackson, Adam Wainwright, Chris Carpenter, and of course, Albert Pujols can be free agents after this season. They will try to re-sign Albert (and most likely will), but that probably means saying good bye to Berkman and probably even Carpenter. That's good news for our Reds.

  • Comment 137 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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    Where do you think Chris Carpenter might end up?

    and no one post that pic of Carpenter in a Reds hat please

    by Red_Poodle on Aug 18, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

    the AL

    where he won’t be beaned after saying stupid shti.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

    AL East?

    "Luna Lovegood is really freaking awesome in every way." -Me

    by crolfer on Aug 18, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I'd rather BP be at #1 than anywhere else he's going to be (1-4).

    But honestly. Let’s get that leadoff LFer this offseason. I’d also like to see what Frazier could do hitting #2 at some point, but I think I’m higher on him than most.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

    this goes beyond my stat-totalling abilities

    But if I’m right, I think BP was actually outperforming his career averages in the slash categories while leading off last year…until he got hurt and had that terrible finish.

    When he was healthy, right, and leading off last year, he was pretty damn solid.

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 18, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

    That's what I thought too, but he wasn't doing all that hot even before the injury

    He got hit on the hand on 8/25. From 6/25 (when he started leading off) through then, he slashed 270/314/430. He definitely suffered after the injury, slashing 198/277/292 for the remainder of the year.

    by ken on Aug 18, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Not strongly anyway.

    Basically what happened last year is that in April, BP hit badly, and hit fourth. In June, BP hit well, and hit second. In July, BP hit badly, and lead off. In August, BP hit well and Dusty was lead off. In September, BP hit badly due to the injury and lead off.

    BP’s non-september injury OPS leading off in 2010 was .770, only a few points higher than his 2010 total, and a about .025 points above his career average. On the other hand, BP’s non-september injury OPS hitting 2nd in 2010 was .866.

    Listen to my grawling.

    by andromache on Aug 18, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't understand Dusty's insistance on shoe horning someone in to the leadoff spot

    This team has a nice 2-3-4. So just hit them first. BP, Votto, Bruce. Why put an out on the board before you get started? And much as I dislike TLR, maybe hit the pitcher 8 and Sappelt 9 so that there are two spots between the pitcher and Votto.
    Also, what is ERA+?

    When you come to the fork in the road, take it.

    by poojols on Aug 18, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

    ERA+ is ERA set on a scale

    where 100 is the league average for that particular season. So Bronson’s 75 this year means his ERA is 25% worse than league average.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

    For funsies

    johnny cueto’s ERA+ is TWO HUNDRED AND TEN!!!! (sorry i had to put that in caps with exclamation points, just writing the number ‘210’ doesn’t express how ridiculously awesome that is)

    by ritalin on Aug 18, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I uh actually kinda like that

    I would continue to try to find that guy, but if none exists on the team, do what you said. makes sense.

    If the #1’s are hitting like a dang pitcher anyway… why not? I like the idea of not wasting that ab seemingly 75-80% of the time.

    Plus, it’ll stop that bullshit bunt-em-over-so-Joey-can-walk crap

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Agreed.

    Additionally, with our strong bench bats and good-hitting rotation, getting our starting pitchers to the plate just a tad more often ain’t a horrible thang.

    "If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1

    by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't think it's a horrible idea, but let's not pretend leadoff has been a black hole this year

    Stubbs has hit .254/.333/.379 while leading off this year.
    NL average for leadoff hitters in 2011 is .266/.330/.393.

    So Stubbs has been about an average leadoff guy this year. I agree that there are lineups that utilize Stubbs more and make more sense, but this isn’t nearly as big of a problem as everyone wants to think it is. And BP hitting leadoff certainly isn’t the solution.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Probably. Maybe with a bit less OBP

    Point being, it won’t make a damn bit of difference.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

    really?

    how did you factor in BP no longer batting fourth and Bruce/Rolen becoming 4?
    how did you factor in Stubbs no longer having to bat 1st and moving to 6th, where he seems more comfortable?

    He didn’t say “I hit better at leadoff”. He said something to the effect of “we” did better. (Don’t know if that’s true, but it’s different than just counting numbers at one position, it’s the sum of deltas)

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 19, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Except...

    we originally had aspirations for being an above average team.

    The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

    by TheC on Aug 18, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

    Thing is, we tried to by getting Fred Lewis

    he fit all the criteria of a leadoff-y type for LF, as we might’ve expected a .350 OBP with decent speed. Dusty had other ideas.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

    We have

    and I still certainly disagree with you.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Ditto

    Terry Gross is the best interviewer on radio.

    by FordhamRam on Aug 18, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

    No way

    But she is a damn sight better than Davies, who sounds like the nerdlinger who has his own movie critic show on public access.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't know much from such things

    but she’s certainly not objectionable. That goes a long way on the radio.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I just think she gets a lot more out of her interviewees than most

    For what she does, she’s fantastic.

    The guy on Morning Edition who grills world leaders within an inch of their lives (Steve Inskeep?) is the best.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

    i can never figure out his name

    always sounds like stevenskeep, one word, like madonna.

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

    This doesn't make me very popular among myself.

    But sometimes, I don’t even like This American Life.

    Listen to my grawling.

    by andromache on Aug 18, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't listen to NPR with any regularity

    but why do people think you have to be “artsy” and a “hippie” to listen to NPR?

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Truth

    I thought only socialists, liberals and communists listened to NPR

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Aug 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

    is NPR really that left wing?

    I dont keep up much with the absurdity of which news network is affiliated with which party, but I never got the idea that NPR was super liberal when I’ve listened to it.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Depends on who you ask

    Ask the tea party, NPR is communist. Ask anyone else, it’s pretty centrist.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

    My comment was meant as a joke

    I don’t find it left leaning, but a lot on the right certainly do…for whatever reason

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Aug 18, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

    nah I knew it was a joke

    I was more speaking to the popular opinion. as creds brings up, one thing I’m impressed with regarding that station is that there are none of the ridiculous yelling shows that most news networks seem to be obsessed with.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Yup, that's definitely a plus

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Aug 18, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

    apparently he's an Ivy Leaguer

    which I feel like I should’ve known. It should be interesting.

    Their lede was kind of funny, though. They were all “And Mr. Ausmus will tell us which foul tips hurt the most.” To which I screamed into the radio “IT’S THE BALLS, JOHN Q. TAXPAYER! IN THE BALLS HURTS THE MOST!”

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I roomed with a guy who played ball at Dartmouth

    Ausmus is supposed to be a pretty cool guy. He’d go back to visit and help out, without being too creepy with the co-eds.

    by ken on Aug 18, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I caught one game in little league

    but I’m left-handed, so they didn’t have a catcher’s mitt for me. They told me to use my regular glove and just try to catch the ball in the webbing. It goes without saying that I didn’t come with a cup either.

    So yeah, I can assure you, the nardicles are the worst possible area to take a foul tip.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Always wear a cup

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I caught left-handed an entire season of little league.

    I used a first-basemen’s mitt—the rule book said catchers could not use a normal mitt, but didn’t specify catcher’s mitt. I could snag anything with that glove.

    by ashersky on Aug 18, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Not being snarky, but based on what?

    Injury/illness this year? Bad luck?

    I’m genuinely curious, because since we’re stuck with him either way, I really hope you are right.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    engoard'ged

    "If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1

    by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

    OH HAI!

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Injury/illness ain't nothing

    He’s posted a 16.3% FB/HR ratio, his highest ever. His walks are down and Ks are up, but his BABIP is up to .285 – still low.

    But to compare, the most Miltonious season of Eric he was still only alloweing ~13% FB/HR. Shit’s been unfortunate for Arroyo.

    I think he’ll always have the potential to fluctuate wildly, but I don’t think he’ll be quite this bad next year. I’m still not sure why Walt would rather have him around than Volqwoodoney.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

    16.3% is some pretty horrid luck

    He will almost certainly be better next year. His last two season he seemed fairly lucky, though, so this might just be the baseball gods getting a little payback.

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Mostly luck

    A 2.0 HR/9 ratio is unsustainably bad. I also think his health (back, heel) should either improve next year, but if it worsens it will probably be enough to get him on the DL and prevent further damage to himself and the team. Still, there’s plenty to be worried about, with his declining velocity and increased contact rates. I would settle for 180 innings/95 ERA+.

    by ken on Aug 18, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Bronson has not done well, and I think is more likely to get injured than to help the team.

    It’s not just mono, the sore back, the carpal tunnel, and a sore Achilles, it’s also the left knee he hyper-extended in his last start, and likely some general fatigue.

    I wanna know why the fuck he was playing guitar before the game yesterday. No fuckin’ excuse for that injury-aggravating shit.

    "If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1

    by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I would settle for 150 innings at 85 ERA+

    Meaning if he did that, I wouldn’t be pissed that they run him out there, and wouldn’t curse Jocketty for the extension, though I might want to still.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Milton gave up 1.5 HR/9 for his career

    and peaked at 1.9/9 in ‘04 and ’05. Arroyo’s career is 1.2/9, which is still not good, and his 2.0/9 this year is by far his worst. He’s basically been around 1.2 his entire career.

    I think next year will be better too, but when the Milton idea popped into my head I got a dreadful rush of nausea. It hasn’t subsided.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Milton gave up a lot more flyballs than Arroyo

    Arroyo is a flyball pitcher, but Milton was an extreme flyball pitcher. You can’t give up 50% flyballs in GABP and survive. Arroyo is around 40%, which is more manageable.

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Milton's ratio was also depressed by the Metrodome

    It jumped to 1.9 when he moved to Philly, where it stayed the next year with the Reds.

    by ken on Aug 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

    At least Milton was injured

    most of the time he was with the Reds, that minimized the damage he did. Unfortunately, Arroyo is a horse. A horse that needs to be Barbaro’d.

    by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Aug 18, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Taken to the glue factory?

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Aug 18, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

    so we have Goodroyo, Badroyo

    and Schiavroyo?

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 19, 2011 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

    Trade him!

    Here’s an interesting thought. What if the Phillies offered Roy Halladay for Cueto straight up? Would you take it?

    Halladay is 34, signed through 2013 (3yr/$60M) with a vesting option for 2014.
    Cueto is 25, signed through 2014 (4yr/$27M) with a team option for 2015.

    I think I’d turn them down. Imagine that: turning down Roy Halladay in a straight-up, 1-for-1 pitching deal? Even thinking about the cuestion is unheard of in recent Reds memory.

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

    uh.... thankyaverymuch

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Color me skeptical

    I’ll be sold on Cueto when he comes out throwing nails in ‘12. I’m just not there yet.

    by ben nevis on Aug 18, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

    i hear ya

    but it doesn’t seem outlandish to think that 28-year-old Cueto will be better than 37-year-old Halladay.

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

    If payroll weren't a major issue for the Reds

    I’d do that trade in a heartbeat.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    But it is, of course.

    I’m talking myself into this, but still.

    A 9-year younger Cueto, at less than half the cost is, I think, worth more than Halladay.

    Sounds stupid when I write it. Mebbe it is.

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

    after you're reading the plot, you're right

    I just got excited at Gerard Butler with an AK

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I am curious to see how the movie portrays Childers, a man who runs an orphanage for rescued child soldiers

    ….while also claiming to be a member of the SPLA, a military organization that has its own division of child soldiers.

    I mean, if it weren’t a hagiography, which it most certainly will be, it could be interesting.

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

    just ta keep you fruit cakes on topic

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

    ...

    was gonna dig up a picture of preacher hebert, but found this lassie instead

    … I need to go be in my bunk for a while.

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Is Bronson selfish?

    I mean, its a pretty impressive streak to never miss a start, but for the better of the team he needs to take a break. Maybe replace him with Volquez? How wonderful it could be if he could get command. Then we would stop regretting the Hamilton trade.

    by cincyplayoffwin2012 on Aug 18, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

    maybe he's being self-less

    Taking the ball for another 200IP season, letting the bullpen get some rest and the young arms a break in an already shitty season.

    Might as well put the innings on him instead of Wood or Volqy. Don’t mean nothin’.

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 18, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

    Yes, he is selfish.

    He’s also untradable, soooo.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Maybe not "selfish", prideful maybe?

    I think his pride concerning his starts streak outweighs him sitting down for the betterment of the team. Amazingly I think he actually thinks he is doing the team a favor by pitching every five days, no matter how bad it is.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

    If the team were in contention, I would call him selfish

    since we aren’t contending anyway, I’d say Arroyo feels like he has earned the right to go after a personal streak. And that’s fine with me. I might feel more strongly in Arroyo’s favor if it were much of a meaningful streak.

    If he does the same thing next year while we are trying to contend, then I’ll be kinda pissed.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

    thats what I mean though

    its not selfish if he actually thinks hes helping the team. rather than selfish he’s more just delusional, even though its due to his ego. semantics I guess.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

    You're right

    I do wonder whether Arroyo realizes he is not helping the team at all, and if he did, whether he would strongly resist if Dusty wanted to sit him or something.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Is it too early for I toldya so with Bronson?

    His deal was a fuck-up, pure and simple.

    Wear something sexy to my funeral.

    by Pops Daniels on Aug 18, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

    I'm too lazy to go back to the thread

    but I don’t think anyone here was too impresssed.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Aug 18, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I thought we'd been over this.

    Not that many people were thrilled by it. Many didn’t like it.

    But it’s true, few hated it with the white hot passion that you did!

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Pretty similar lineup to last night

    Phillips 4, Sappelt 7, Votto 3, Bruce 9, Cairo 5, Stubbs 8, Hanigan 2, Janish 6, Arroyo 1

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Aug 18, 2011 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

    Whatever happened to Todd Frazier?

    He’s had some bad BABIP luck, but the guy has shown good power and decent patience. Too bad I never see him in the lineup (I think I have missed every game he has started since the one where he hit his first HR).

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Yeah, he should be playing

    The Reds are 12.5 GB in mid-August and Cairo is signed through next year. There’s no reason to start him back-to-back days while benching your previously-#1 prospect and possible future (as soon as next year) 3B.

    "OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

    by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 18, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

    alas

    I think the only reason he got to play was Cairo had a sore oblique. Now that Miggy’s healthy, he’s the starting third baseman.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Aug 18, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

    It's things like this that push me to the brink with Dusty

    I want to be able to defend him and get behind him, but he does this kind of shit and I can’t.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Aug 18, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Seriously, this is silly.

    For one, either try Yonder in LF or don’t. Not 3 games on, 5 off, 1 on, 3 off. If he can’t do it, send his ass to AAA. If you want to find out, play him there more than once a week.

    And re: Frazier, he’s been really good overall, he’s just dealing with some terrible BABIP luck in a SSS. His BBs and Ks are about what you’d expect based on his AAA performance, and his power has been great. His BABIP is .170.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Following up on Alonso.

    His OPS so far is 1.152. Dave Sappelt’s in a few more PAs, is .472. I’d say that more than offsets the defensive difference.

    Now obviously we don’t think Sappelt will do that poorly, but how much better will he do? What I mean is, we assume Yonder will keep sucking this bad in LF, but we don’t assume Sappelt will keep sucking this bad at the plate. Why does Sappelt get a chance to prove himself, but Yonder doesn’t?

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Just to be devil's advocate here.

    You could legit say that Sappelt has a chance to improve as he adjusts to major league pitching – I feel like there’s no difficulty jump between LF in AAA and LF in MLB.

    Listen to my grawling.

    by andromache on Aug 18, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I know. That's obviously the right answer.

    But the other side to that is that Alonso has had 4 (admittedly bad) games in LF. Do we assume there’s zero chance he’ll look better the longer he’s out there?

    4 games is fluky by definition. I just have a hard time believing that after a half season’s worth of games there in AAA they’ve made up their minds based on what amounts to 3 or 4 bad plays.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Daugherty's column on SI.com actually had a good point here

    They’ve been trying Yonder out in LF for 3 months in the minors. And now, based on 4 games, they are giving up? So, why leave him in LF so long in AAA if you aren’t going to give him a legit shot in the majors?

    Either go all in, or don’t.

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

    This leads me to believe that Dusty and Walt disagree

    I think Walt wants to give it a shot, while Dusty ain’t e’en havin’ it.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Exactly.

    This comes down to Dusty thinking he can’t “win ballgames” with Yonder in LF. Which, apart being completely beside the point, is really not something he can say for sure until he’s given him a real trial.

    Which, like Chuck says, indicates strongly that Dusty and Walt aren’t on the same page.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

    sure hope walt wins that office politics

    "The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

    by bbjones on Aug 18, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

    s really not something he can say for sure until he’s given him a real trial.

    **cough**END**COUGH**

    "If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1

    by PeteyHendrix on Aug 18, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I want either him or Frazier there

    why we wouldn’t want to find out what we have there going into next year is beyond me. We know exactly what we’ll get from Cairo.

    Plus Dusty won’t play Yonder in left because of his defense yet he’ll play Cairo at third? Makes no friggin sense to me.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Cairo is actually pretty good at 3B

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Aug 18, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

    not from what I've seen

    there have been balls that should have been errors, but he is so bad he didn’t even get a glove on them so they weren’t ruled as one. I like him fine as a fill in, he does ok there, but as a starter he is a terrible defender, in my opinion at least.

    by pack_fan on Aug 18, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't think he should be a starter

    He’ll be exposed if he is, and at his age, he can’t handle playing every day. (And I think he knows it. Years ago, he turned down a starting 2B job with the Mets to be a utility infielder for the Yanks.)

    But…I think he’s been fine on defense. His UZR/150 this year at 3B is 16.7. In comparison, Frazier is -19.9.

    I know, defensive stats are problematic, and this is a very small sample size indeed. But…I don’t think it’s unreasonable that, given those numbers, someone who had watched every play this year (that is, Dusty) would come to the conclusion that Miggy is a good third baseman and Frazier is not.

    Indeed, Cairo’s forte has always been his defense. That’s why he has a 16 year career. He’s not known for his bat.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Aug 19, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I'd be all for a real END trial too

    Just so we could close the book on him once and for all

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Aug 18, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

    Considering how poorly 3Bs are hitting this year

    the bar is set a good bit lower. I’m beginning to re-think my “hell no, END!” stance. I’m very close to changing to a “hmmm, maybe END!” stance.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 18, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Juan Francisco is healthy enough to be playing third in AAA

    and is hitting the ball well. Edgar can’t play right now. Time to make THE MOVE.

    "If you intended to debate this, you need to take a side." - johnu1

    by PeteyHendrix on Aug 19, 2011 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

    I don't mind this configuration

    easy on dusty.
    Todd Fraziers game to play ? LF? Plug him in a 2. 3b plug him in at 5.

    Ramon catching? Plug him in at 7
    Rents shorting? Plug him in at 220v

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Colombia is actually one of the few countries to use 110v electricity, just like the US

    If you plug Rent in at 220, you could do serious damage.

    Molecular gastronomy can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Aug 18, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

    and..?

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

    x

    A Ongreed the Deserving
    -coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character

    by supergrover on Aug 18, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

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