Red Reposter - It's a new season
by ken on Jul 18, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
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Print- Reds take two of three from St. Louis
Looking to put behind an ugly and underachieving first half, the Reds came out of the gate strong this weekend, securing an important victory and series win over St. Louis yesterday. A loss would've put the Reds five back of the lead, perhaps too great to consider the team a credible threat as the trade deadline approaches. Albert Pujols quieted the crowd on Friday and Saturday, but yesterday his bat was conspicuously silent in going 0 for 4. A good start for the team's post-ASB run. - Speaking of the ASB, C-ing Red takes a look back at 5 Reds All-Stars you may have forgotten
Bip Roberts might not have been on the Reds long, but in 1992 he put up the kind of year we all dreamed Ryan Freel might've had. Roberts played four positions, split equitably between the outfield and infield, accumulating 5 WAR on the strength of a .393 OBP and 44 steals. - On to Pittsburgh
In his second Reds start, Dontrelle takes onJames McDonaldCharlie Morton and the Bucs tonight. He's been a welcome addition to the clubhouse, per BP: "He's a great teammate. He's one of my friends. Just hearing him on the bench during the game, he's keeping everybody into the game. He gives good motivation to the team. We really needed somebody like that to come here, other than myself." The Pirates are in the middle of a critical part of their schedule, facing the Cards, Braves and Phillies after us. Hopefully the Reds can start the Pittsburgh KO this week and thin the crowd at the top of the Central. - Hal - say no to committees
"Q: Couldn’t the Reds go to a closer by committee with Nick Masset, Aroldis Chapman and Bill Bray for the rest of the year and let Coco Cordero go for a prospect or two? — Keith, Brookville A: There is nothing worse than trying to get something done by committee. It usually takes a month to get something done by committee that should take one day." I don't really understand his objection. It will take longer to get saves if opportunities are parsed among several pitchers?
As for why Coco, Hal responds: "Twelve million reasons, as in $12 million a year for Cordero to be the closer. That doesn't make it right, but a closer is a closer is a closer. Remember when Los Angeles Dodgers closer Mike Marshall appeared in 106 games in 1974? He appeared in 13 straight games at one point and pitched 2081/3 innings, all in relief. And his "out" pitch was a screwball, a pitch that is extremely hard on the arm. No, Coco isn't Mike Marshall, but appearing three days in a row shouldn't be a burden. He just needs to do his job." Elsewhere, Hal ruminates on his bucket list, otherwise known as "next weekend's plans." - Fay bangs the "Free Heisey" drum
Heisey’s home run ratio is 14.3 per at-bat. He doesn’t have enough at-bats to qualify as a league leader. If he did, he’d be second in the National League in home run ratio to Lance Berkman (11.3). Actually, at 14.3 HR per AB, I submit that it would be impossible for any mortal to match Heisey. Removing my sarcasm font, Baker makes a good point about expecting too much based on part-time samples: "That’s dangerous to do. Some guys play every day ... you start averaging with guys like Oscar Gamble they’d have 50 home runs and 172 RBI. It doesn’t work like that." Just imagine how high that afro would have been with regular playing time.
- BP's exhuberant home run trot on Friday night did not offend St. Louis
Not even Tony La Russa, who's heightened sensitivity has been noted around these and other parts, cried foul: "That's such a commonplace, it's a release of pressure. Everybody's enjoying the moment. ... It's just a really happy time. You'd have to do something really extravagant to cross the line." BP's twitter feed predictibly blew up after the game, befitting his recent induction into SI's Twitter 100. - Red Hot Mama stumped for Thom's Awful Announcing's Campaign
Unsuccessfully, as it turns out, as Jim Gray defeated the younger Brennaman over the weekend. Awful Announcing is looking to replace the retired Joe Morgan on its masthead with this elimination tournament. - FanGraphs has a Cliff Notes guide to the second half
The Reds discussion is succinct: "Will they finally live up to their lofty pre-season expectations?" The same question is posed to the White Sox, who've suffered Adam Dunn's horrific AL debut. Donkey's AVG stands at .159 after Saturday's game, which is a full twenty points lower than Rob Deer's modern "record" for worst qualifying batting average. There's precedent for a rebound, though he's unlikely to return to his 40-HR seasons. Indeed, very little seems to be going right for White Sox fans this year. - For more second half analysis, see Grant Brisbee's piece here
His NL Central predictions include Dontrelle Willis sticking in the rotation, the Cards trading Colby Rasmus, and the Brewers taking the division. Yes, YES, and probably. - The Dems won the critical Congressional Baseball Match
The Democrats, who apparently lost several key players after last year's midterm drubbing, upset the Republicans 8-2. I've previously mentioned that the Reds cut Lou Barletta (R-Pa.) in 1977 during George Clooney's tryout. I didn't see how Barletta did, but Adam Smith (D-Wash.), whose hands move so fast you can't see them, went 3 for 3. Cedric Richmond (D-La.), who pitched at Morehouse College, threw a one-hitter. - While the warring factions of the legislative branch slugged it on the diamond,
the judiciary landed a huge blow on the executive branch when a mistrial was declared in the Roger Clemens matter. NotGraphs depicts The Hon. Joe West, who rarely exhibits clemency for players, tossing the government's case. We'll see how he feels about the double-jeopardy motion.
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I still disagree that the Brewers are the favorites.
The Cardinals are better than them. They have a better rotation, a better lineup, and similar defense.
And of course I think the Reds can and will make a run too.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I still believe that, pound-for-pound, we've got the best team in the division
If the offense keeps up and the pitching makes a nice course correction, we’ll win the division by 5 games.
The Pirates are about to turn back into the Pirates, starting tonight.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't know that i agree with that
the reds are probably as good as any team in the division, but i don’t think they are noticeably better.
i give the cardinals the edge because I think LaRussa is much better than Dusty
The reds need to win 2/3 of their games in 2nd half to get to 90 wins
Not likely
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
The team that wins the division will not win 90 games.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
this.
This avatar smells like greasy line-beards and Brut.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 18, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
offseason avatar bet!
90 plus wins for the NL Cenral champ and i pick yours. Less than that and you can pick mine.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I'm not betting anything with you.
There’s so much luck and chance involved that either of us could be right. And frankly, having to listen to you smugly remind us you were right 1,000 times all offseason will be punishment enough.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Jul 18, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
The Brewers are only on pace for 86 wins
and the Reds only need to win 58% of their remaining games to match that. I think the 4-team race is going to put downward pressure on the the winning percentage required for first place.
Either the Brewers or Cardinals could get really hot and the Reds would have to win 2/3 to take the division. But the run differentials at least suggest it’s the Reds that have been underachieving.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Only Time Will Tell
I’m still predicting 90 wins needed to take the division.
Offseason avatar bet!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I think the division winner could easily be the winner of 90+ games
but I don’t think second-place is going to be a 90 game winner. I’m not sold on that prediction enough to put my Michael Showalter headshot at risk.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
so the Brewers can get the wins they need for 90
but the Reds can’t?
Your logic is like Christopher Reeves back.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
His logic was crushed is a horse riding accident?
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
Berkman's DL stint is inevitable and past-due
We have a much better defensive team than either.
We have the best offense in the NL.
Our pitching will be better in the second half.
Plenty of reason for optimism.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I ain't shook.
Bring it on.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
you get the reds
i get the cards
if the reds have a better record at the end of the season you win. if the cardinals have the better record I win.
agreeable?
If it's going to be a bet on the whole season, it would be pretty stupid if the avatar change only lasted a week.
As a third party, I think it should last the whole 2012 season.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Agreed.
I will spend the next two months thinking up something truly, unspeakably awful for you to wear with pride, because your loss also means (probably) that the Reds are in the playoffs again.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
so JCH hates 'tHan?
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
How can the Louisville Bats be 11.5 games out of first place with all those prospects/former mlb players?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Pitching has been so-so
and Columbus is really good.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember how the early 2000 Bats won a lot of games, depsite have like next to 0 to prospects?
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Wins is the only stat that doesn't matter in the minors
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
the 1990 WS team
had many players on the ballclub who came up in the reds system.
id be interested to see what the record of their minor league teams were. id surmise they were pretty damn good and probably won divisions on regular basis.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Louisville Bats won the division tittle in 2009 and 2010
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
and 2008.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure they've also suffered from pitching uncertainties
Because of how much the Reds have. It’s hard to put together a good record if the big league team is constantly swiping your starters the day before a game because they need them.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
well we've had some pretty good AAAA pitchers in the past few years
Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive
This is true. They both played baseball.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Jul 18, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what about The Lizard?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 19, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
1989 Nashville Sounds were 2 games over .500
1988 they were a second place team and were 73-69.
In 1987 they were in last place with a 64-76 record.
These “winners” included important members of the team such as Tom Browning, Jack Armstrong, Paul O’Neil, Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, Chris Sabo, Lenny Harris, and Joe Oliver who apparently pitched 403 minor league innings?.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Tom Browning was 20-9 for the Reds in 1985
Paul Oneill debuted in mid 1987.
Sabo was ROY in 1988.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Browning started 5 games in Nashville in 1987
So technically, Justin is correct about this.
FWIW, the 1986 Denver Zephyrs were 76-66, in 1985 they were 77-65. Those teams featured Eric Davis and Paul O’Neill among others.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
One or two players can’t carry a team at any level, and minor league teams rarely have serious, legit talent at more than 3-4 positions at a time. Often times the rest of the spots are filled by org filler guys who don’t want to have to get a real job.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Well don't AAA players make $75,000 a year?
I wouldn’t look for a real job either.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Only guys with split contracts make that much
Guys who’ve been around forever but never made the bigs (like, 7 years or more) can negotiate their contracts. They usually make around 4,000 a month, but only during the season.
Young prospects make 2-3K per month, again, only during the season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I was thinking there was a step up salary.
You get a pay raise in each league. I guess I was wrong.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
no, you're right
The pay scale increases for both level and years experience.
You also get incentive payments if you make AA, AAA, or MLB and stick for 60 days.
They also get per dium for road games.
Still not a lot of money, though I imagine it’s big bucks for some foreign players.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah, it does increase
The numbers I cited are for AAA. You get almost nothing in the low minors, although you have almost no expenses either.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I was thinking in low minors you might get a couple thousand a month, and it stepped up from there.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
the max
AAA with 3 years’ experience, you get $2,700 a month, plus a $1,000 bonus if you stick 60 days.
A guy playing his first year in rookie ball gets just $1150 a month.
There’s a chart here.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Shit I make more than that substitute teaching.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I had no idea they made so little
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, you can see why
baseball doesn’t have much appeal to kids, looking at the long road to the big leagues with relatively low pay – unless you score a big signing bonus.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I just looked at the rosters, i didn't look at the stats
i figure if Ewok wants something better he can look it up him fucking self.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
nah, i'd rather have Brian Reith and Seth Etherton down there
than Travis Wood and Boxberger!
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Larson is not walkin through that door.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
The Bats have been an eerie echo of the Reds. Unbeatable offense, very beatable pitching.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I've always liked this refrain
Is Red Poodle the originator?
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The Reds are pretty even with St. Louis, both teams have played 95 games so far
The Reds have scored 447 runs, the Cards 445, and the Reds have allowed 418 runs and the Cards 417.
I do think Kyle Lohse and Kyle Mcleanan are do for some serious second half regression, and Westbrook is bad. I think the rotations will end up being similar to last year, sans Wainwright, the Cardinals have a really strong top half, the Reds have a solid 1-5.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
that Lohse will regress in the second half?
I’m not saying the Reds will win the division, but I am saying that there will be a race.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? That's why you give them the edge?
TLR is a terrible, and highly overrated manager. The Cards are better because they have a better lineup and a better rotation. The Reds defense and bullpen narrows the gap.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....
TLR, like em or hate em, is a HOF mgr. He’s won two WS in STL.
Dismissing him as “a terrible” is ignorant and irresponsible.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Jul 18, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right. TLR had much more to do with those WS
than Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen, Chris Carpenter, or Jim Edmonds.
Those guys were tools, it was LaRussa who whipped them into shape!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
the team with the best talent doesnt always win the WS
see: last season
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
The Cardinals had a very talented team last year.
And they didn’t even make the playoffs.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
playoffs are a crapshoot
see: last season
see also: 2009; 2008; 2007…
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I don't think he has won 2 world series in St. Louis
he isn’t terrible, but he, like most “great” managers has been in the right place at the right time. He also makes weird decisions like burning his left handed reliever against Votto and Bruce despite Votto and Bruce mashing lefties.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, he's won 2 WS total. He made it to, and lost, 3 others.
You’d think such a genius would manage to win more WS than he loses.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Agreed.
But what is interesting is how the 5 are clustered. He made the WS for three straight years with the As (88-90). Then he made it in 04 and 06 with the Cards. Before that, he managed 11 seasons and only had 5 winning records. Between the successes of the As and the Cards he managed 13 years. (4 1st place finishes in those 13 years) Then in the 5 years since the Cards won the series, they’ve only made the playoffs once.
Point? Not that TLR is a terrible manager, but that he, like every other manager, is completely dependent on his players to have a good team. And in my recent experience with him, he does more to minimize the assets at his disposal than most other managers around. Ergo, overrated.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think TLR was probably at one point great, and has slipped with age recently
He’s accomplished way too much to be simply dismissed as being in the right place at the right time. Of course, it’s difficult to separate the Duncan effect, but you have to give TLR credit for bringing Duncan along with him wherever he’s gone.
I think 10-20 years ago he looked like a genius
he was doing “new” things and seemed ahead of the curve. Now with the advancement of stats he is with if not behind the curve.
I’d take Davey Johnson over TLR.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Who wouldn't take Davey Johnson?
I wish the Reds would bring him in.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
of course
i’d take a team of
C-Mauer
1B-Votto
2B-Phillips
3B-Longoria
SS-Reyes
LF-Holliday
CF-McCutchen
RF-Heyward
Bench
Pujols
Weeks
Kemp
Bruce
McCann
Pitching
1 Hallady
2. Lee
3 Cueto
4 Sabathia
5 Garcia
Closer-Riveria
Setup- Hanrahan
Setup- Heath Bell
Middle- Papelbon
Middle- Feliz
Loogy-Bray
Long Man-Carpenter
With Bob Boone at the helm.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
That lineup just gave me a boner.
I like how Carpenter was thrown in there as a long man. I like it cause it would piss him off… then we could DFA him for being a shit bag.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh.
But really, if someone asks me who the best LOOGY in baseball is, my immediate reaction definitely isn’t Bray.
I get your point, though. I’m just being difficult and nitpicking. Carry on.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I think
Bench is a little too old for this team, although he’s probably still better than many catchers in MLB
by ThisonebelongstotheReds on Jul 18, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, 10-20 years ago TLR looked like a genius
but the more I’ve watched him, the more I see, the less he impresses me. And the more I learn about him, the more respect I lose for him.
Those statements will apply to most every person you meet inyour lifetime
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Jul 18, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It's true, where do you think the phrase "The only normal people are the ones you haven't gotten to know yet" came from?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Your twisted mind?
I mean, I have a pretty dim view of humanity, but I also believe in common grace, and that people can surprise you if you let them.
Look at you! I thought you were the worst human ever. Now I just think you are below average.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Hey now, I'm not saying you should let that color the way you interact with people
But I do believe it to be true. When I read the original comment I almost replied with “I could say the same thing about my dad”.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
you need to go to more museums
paint some pottery
hear some live jazz
eat a Boar burger
drink some absinthe
see a 3D movie
round out those edges!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Jul 18, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but everyone goes through that with their Dad
Age 10: Dad knows everything!
Age 20: Dad is the dumbest SOB on the planet!
Age 30 (assuming your Dad isn’t a right bastard): Dad had some good points. I didn’t give him enough credit
Age 40: Dad is starting to get a little forgetful
Age 50: Well, time to change Dad’s diaper again.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe we all go through that with most everyone we're exposed to for a long period of time
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Meh, it certainly has not been my experience
My point is, what you go through with your parents is more about your own maturity than anything else. I don’t think I discovered all that much about my dad between the time I was 18 and the time I was 35, but I definitely respected him more when I was 35.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
it hasn't been my experience, either
And I thought I was a misanthrope.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I disagree.
I think we see more depth and complexity in people the longer we know them, but that doesn’t equate to it being all bad.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
You're right, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of reverance instead of respect
It’s been my experience that the more I learn about people I revere or once revered, the more flawed and human they become.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I definitely agree with this
It’s most evident in romantic partners. The beginning is (usually) all great and happy, but inevitably the warts start being revealed.
But as someone who’s been married 9 years (on Wednesday…believe it!) I can also say that at some point the warts are all out there and you start to gain a deeper understanding and appreciation for the person.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
i hate finding warts on my romantic partners
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Happy Early Anniversary!
Mine was yesterday. We’re like brothers….only closer.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Thanks! Back at you!
Since we’re so close, I’m sure you celebrated the same way we did: Brunch and the Harry Potter movie on Imax.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Closer than you think
Dinner at Chez Nora at the rooftop jazz club followed by Transformers 3D. As I’m sure you saw on twitter, I was at the midnight showing of Harry Potter.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Nice! Did you hear music? Was it good?
Was Transformers as terrible as it looks?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It is your typical Michael Bay movie.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I second this.
Every time someone say Pearl Harbor was a good movie, I go all Planet of the Apes and start killing human beings.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BBB nailed it, it's a Michael Bay flick
And the fact that an alien race was trying to teleport their planet to Earth was more believable than Shia Lebouf having that woman as his girlfriend.
That place looks great, you can’t beat a dish named “My Grandmother’s Ravioli”.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
When the planet started to pop up all I could think of was...
that is really going to fuck up gravity.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The pastry tray was really, really good
Also, brunch is a nice excuse to drink before noon.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Remember
You can’t drink the day away unless you get an early start!
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I'm starting to wonder if, despite my protestations
I might indeed be an alcoholic
/pours another shot
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Do you still go to work every day and are productive at work?
Then your not an alcoholic.
Well you also can’t come how and beat your family.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they call that a "functional alcoholic"
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Mrs Creds comes home and beats me
She also holds her liquor better than I do.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
ever here of functioning alcoholics?
Churchill was a morning drinker.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Just because you're an alcoholic doesn't mean you have a problem with alcohol.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
But in the realm of people you idolize, I agree
They will never fail to disappoint.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yes, exactly, because
I’ve never heard that aphorism in my life.
A Ongreed the Deserving
-coviner's lawful neutral Paladin / Debutante character
Yeah, I mean, he has a winning record in 35 MLB seasons as manager
He’s made the playoffs a bunch of times, etc. Still, if you look at when he has had success, it’s been when he has had very good players. That’s not a knock on him, it’s just how it is with every manager.
And lately, he seems to minimize his assets rather than maximizing him. I am too young to know if he did that throughout the 80s and 90s, but he’s sure as hell doing it now.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
He did a lot with a few stars and not much else in St. Louis
in the middle part of the decade. Those teams were very top-heavy. Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds plus Carpenter, and lot of role players. Certainly there were others that did well, but looking at the ‘05 team, for instance, it really doesn’t look like a 100-win team to me (especially with Rolen hurt most of the year). I think TLR should get some of the credit for his St. Louis run.
Sparky didnt win more WS in Cincy than he lost
was he great?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
He was fine. Mostly lucky, in that he had a ridiculous concentration of talent to work with.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Also, way to grasp at straws, considering for his career he won 3 and lost 2.
He also has a much better career winning % as a manager than TLR.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Because he was a lot fucking cooler.
Sparky acknowledged that he won solely because of his players. TLR “The Doooooosh bag” thinks he does it all on his own.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
even with the Great Eight
the Reds barely won the 1975 WS. They could easily have lost it.
the 1976 team was dominant, swept the postseason.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Especially considering two of those were losses to vastly inferior teams.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony LaRussa is 3rd all time in wins by a manager
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I'm pretty sure the guy in 1st had a losing record
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Manager 35 years will do that.
But I do have to give the guy props for managing (pun intended) to keep an MLB job that long. That’s more than most guys can do.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It's weird with managers, it seems like once they've managed they're always on the list for openings
Hell, look at Jim Riggleman.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Eric Wedge'd
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it definitely seems like a "better the devil you know" type of situation
Either that, or those guys know a lot of people and have hookups. Or, teams are afraid of going with an unknown guy and take the easy route with a “proven” manager, even if all that manager has proven is that he sucks.
Seriously, it is probably TLR’s greatest credit that he has worked so long and so steadily in the majors. That clearly isn’t easy to do.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
he also seems to have lengthy stays
he’s only managed 3 teams in those 35.
it’s hard to maintain a job that long. especially when you are an alcoholic.
by 'tHan on Jul 18, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is he actually labeled as an alcoholic?
Or is that just as making fun of him for his DUI’s?
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
DUI does not equal alcholic
it equals making a poor decision maybe just once.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
That's what I'm thinking.
We know that TLR gets in the car and drives after drinking. I didn’t know he was an actual alcoholic.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know I drink probably 4 times a week.
I certainly don’t consider myself an alcoholic. Maybe TLR drinks every day… I have no clue.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I drink at least 6 days a week. I'm not an alcoholic
I’ve also never gotten behind the wheel even remotely drunk. Although that’s much easier in nyc.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
ive definitely gotten behind the wheel after being overserved
i think most of us here have, if we’re being totally honest. not all, but a majority imho. there but by the grace of god go i…
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I'll agree with this.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure the only time I've ever driven home from a bar in my entire life
was when I was in Cincy in April.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
"Getting overserved" is an excellent passive voice euphemism for having drunk too much.
I’m gonna have to note that one down for future use.
Singer: So did you know you can bring a gun in here now?
'Mache: I BROUGHT TWO! **flexes**
You guys are taking the fun out of this shit talking.
TLR is a horrible bastard who gets drunk every night and hits his wife.
Let’s not compare him to us. It will only make us feel bad.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Challenge Accepted!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 19, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
of course TLR is better than teh dusty
the Reds have an offense that puts up runs, but for whatever reason not when we need them…. and our pitching is worse than advertised, which is no bueno….
I think if we crack .500 we’re being optimistic
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 19, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Enquirer gets in on labeling Cards whiners by making reference to Jack Lemmon movie
(and possibly inadvertent sly reference to TLR’s alcohol abuse?) “”http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20110717/SPT04/307170060/" target="new">Day of Whine – not roses – for Cardinals."
I don’t understand why Theriot went that mental. Both he and Berkman make it sound like that one (correct) lost the game for them.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
that link doesn't work
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Even the posters at VEB know the umpire made the right call
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It really does seem like there's something about a TLR clubhouse
that causes Cardinals teams to look for external factors to blame. I’m not sure it has any bearing on how the teams perform, but the party out of Dusty’s clubhouse usually seems to be “We just have to play better.”
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
"I guess he said something and the umpire banged him."-TLR
Really Tony, really? He could have not said a dirty word or anything special, other than my foot was on the base my foot was on the base, and the way he was in the umpires face he had to be ejected. You don’t behave like that and stay in the game. Don’t act like you are surprise he was thrown out. There was nothing at all surprising about him leaving the game. You just don’t behave like that and stick around.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
by Yossarian22 on Jul 18, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I just realized that the Reds have the Braves and Giants coming up (split up by the Mets, who are no joke either.)
Yikes
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Those are all home games.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
reds aren't terribly great at home
only 3 games over .500 ytd
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Ok, so would you rather have a tough stretch of games on the road?
The schedule is what it is. After we get through the home stand, it lightens up considerably. Even if we only go .500 during that time, it’s a victory.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
defend the castle
good ballclubs have a strong winning percentage at home.
cozart, SSS, seems to be a ballplayer. this team will go as far as votto/bruce/stubbs/bp carries it. and 3/4 of those hitters are streaky.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
The whole team is streaky
Might as well look forward to the possibility of a hot streak when we need it the most.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
like em, i love em!
but this love aint blind. i calls em as i sees em.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Jul 18, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cardinals have the best baseball fans in the country
i don’t have the inherent hate for the Cards like some here do. they were always a NL East team growing up, never a direct competitor to the Reds. and i always rooted for the NL team to win the WS.
anyone who can’t appreciate the STL franchise isnt a true baseball fan.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I love the smell of sweeping generalizations on a summer afternoon.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that sounded like something a yankees fan would say...
HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE US?
Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive
by BigStein on Jul 18, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I respect the franchise as a whole
but the arrogance I’ve experienced from Cardinal fans/players on the current Cardinal team lead me to root against them.
Adam Smith, huh?
Sometimes I think we fetishize these kinds of jokes around here.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions
One of the balls Smith hit looked foul
But he got some help from the French ump, trained in la “say fair” school.
Also, there was a demand shortage for tickets, but Smith didn’t want to intervene.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No, I thought it was very well done
You certainly deserve high Marx for the effort!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ken works all the right Engels
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No one would ever Marcuse him of being lazy and unimaginative
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll admit, he Toynbee an acquired taste
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He always Krugmans a good job on these Reposters
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he'll make an Arendt post every now and again
but overall he’s consistently good.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He's Zizek of a guy
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Zizek means "flower"
which I always thoguht was a a terrible name for glum ol’ Slavoj
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Apparently Bailey was sick yesterday
he thought warming up he wouldn’t survive the second.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
It's just like Bronson says
You can feel great and have great stuff and get hammered… or you can feel like crap and have a dead arm and throw a shutout.
What a game.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm ready for MLBTradeRumors to just start making stuff up.
This has been an absurdly slow trade season.
This avatar smells like greasy line-beards and Brut.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 18, 2011 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
That's kinda what the Ubaldo rumors are
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
well, at least their GM has been quoted on stuff.
Even if it’s 10% chance, that qualifies as a rumor.
I’m talking about Justin Upton to the BoSox for Bucholz kind of stuff.
This avatar smells like greasy line-beards and Brut.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 18, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
reyes to the brewers?
they’d have an all-dreads MI
Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive
local sports talk
was clamoring for Reds to acquire David Wright yesterday.
great in theory, but not economically viable. UNLESS Scottie voluntarily retires this offseason. (Coco is off the books. His 12 mil and Scottie’s 6 mil would cover Wright’s salary)
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
No but the Reds can just "acquire" him
Kinda like in an estate sale. Or when someone stops paying for their storage space.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
prediction standings as of last night including the ASG ... okieChase got the pt yesterday
11 Crolfer
10 Joshuar9476
6 Ritalin
6 Vottomatic
5 TheC
5 Ram27
4 DTFH91
4 MatthewH
4 kcgard2
4 RoastBeefKazenzakis
4 pack_fan
3 Don
3 jch24
3 Yossarian22
3 Ewok / obc2
3 ManBearPig
3 chesirecat
3 DocRam
3 Coviner
3 OkieChase
3 KSE
2 Wishfuldrifter
2 Grahamophone
2 Badenjr
2 Madville
2 Heeringa
2 Sexsalad
2 the finest muffins
2 BiggerRedMachines
2 mdccclxix
1 JSL413
1 Charlie Scrabbles
1 3 Fast 3 Furious
1 than
1 ThePensive
1 sociopath
1 BigStein
1 Jack Armstrong
1 btcoop71
1 KD1
1 Kevin Mitchell
i have a witty signature thought up, i just haven't posted it yet.
i picked the reds to lose every game for the rest of the season 4-3 several weeks ago
and i havent made up any ground???
recount!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
come on obc, i can't let you do that ...
ya gotta get in the threads and post every day even if it is the same … i’m just trying to avoid having to remember two or three (or more) people’s daily prediction
i have a witty signature thought up, i just haven't posted it yet.
Hey, I have 4 points!
Tied for 7th!!!!!!!
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I wonder if there's any truth to this.
Pirates reportedly eyeing Hunter Pence. The Pirates would have to be “blown away” for it to happen, but that means there’s a chance. So I’m thinking Walt should step in and blow them away. The Reds could easily put together a better package, I would have to think.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
The Pirates don't really have the farm system anymore to get a guy like Pence
All of their good young players are already with the big club.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
But the Reds do.
And Pence is reportedly on the table for the right offer.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Pence
isn’t enough of an upgrade to trade off any of our top prospects for.
by no1marauder on Jul 18, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what's funny? The most comparable batter to Pence (in similarity score) is Matt Kemp
Pence is a better OF than Kemp. People were drooling over the prospect of Kemp a while back, when it looked like McCourt was going to have to start selling plasma to make payroll.
I don’t think the Reds will make a play for him, but he would be a great pickup,
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Kemp is in the hunt for MVP
those players aren’t traded midseason.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Yeah, I think you completely missed my point
Back in June, a bunch of stuff broke about the Dodgers barely making payroll, and there was lots of speculation that a fire sale could be imminent (it is clear now that is not going to happen). At that time, many here were drooling over the prospect of Kemp, and willing to give up lots to get him.
I noticed that Pence has very similar career numbers to Kemp (hence the high similarity score). Now, Kemp is 2 years younger and in a tougher park – he is a better hitter than Pence. Still, Pence is a brilliant OF and Kemp a terrible one, so they can’t be too wildly far apart in value.
I just found it funny that someone would think Pence is not worth a top prospect. Pence >>>> Alonso.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the assessment, however
Kemp being 2 years younger makes a big difference IME, although maybe that’s negated by Pence having an extra year of team control.
Also, I think Kemp would rate similarly to Pence in RF. He’s a bad CFer, but he’d be a good corner OFer. Conversely, I bet Hunter Pence would look terrible in CF.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Oh, Kemp is a better player for sure - and a more expensive one
But Pence is awfully good. And I think Kemp is a lazy ass fielder – it isn’t a lack of speed that is hurting him out there. I think in a corner OF spot, he’d look like Lonnie Smith.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Admittedly, I've never actively watched Kemp play defense. You could be spot on.
All i know is that Pence looks like a kid you’d pick last in gym class, yet he still manages to be really effective out there.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
your gym class teams must have sucked
Pence is all hustle, all the time. He charges the ball fiercely in the OF and has a quick release. Makes perfect sense to me that he leads the NL in OF assists over the past three seasons.
dude is a BALLPLAYER! i’d have him on my team every day of the week.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Maybe his gym class was really, really awesome
If Hunter Pence is the nerd, I can only imagine what the jocks must have been like.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Pence has the goofiest throwing motion of any professional
ballplayer I’ve seen. He also has the skinniest legs.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
another good point
his throwing motion is unconventional. but the bastid puts the ball on the bag/dish almost everytime.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I think that's why he leads the league in assists
Any burner thinks he can take an extra base on Pence. They think twice now about Bruce.
Don't forget the buggiest eyes!
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You are almost a caricature sometimes.
I didn’t say he sucked, I said he looks about as unathletic as a human being possibly can. He runs like a pigeon and throws like he’s using his weak hand. If I saw him play a single game, I’d pick him last for a beer league softball team. Yet he still manages to be effective.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I like hating on Pence because its fun
but I’ve liked him as a player ever since his rookie year. Dude looks like an alien, but he can play ball.
Similarity Score
must be the most ridiculous measure ever designed if that is true.
Kemp’s OPS is 137 points better than Pence’s and he’s hit 13 more HRs plus stolen 20 more bases.
Well, it is based on career
And for their careers, they are 12 points apart in OPS
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
People were drooling over Kemp
based on his MVP level performance this year. Based on their career numbers, neither is much of an upgrade over Gomes’ this year; Johnny batting less than .220 still has a .794 OPS when he starts in LF. Why trade top prospects if all you expect in return is a 30 point rise in OPS?
Because Gomes could only maintain that OPS playing against 30% of the league
The other 70% of the time he’s useless.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Based on what?
I’m no Gomes fan, but that’s what he’s put up this year playing about half the time in LF.
OPS against LHP: .993 Against RHP: .663
He can only maintain that high of an OPS if he primarily plays against LHP, which comprise about 30% of the league.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
No
he’d maintain an obscenely high OPS if he only played against lefties and he continued performing at that level. He still have his .796 OPS starting the way Dusty has used him.
Heisey has an .805 against righties, so the argument still holds about Pence (and lifetime Kemp).
Seriously? Matt Kemp or Hunter Pence isn't much of an upgrade over Jonny Gomes?
It’d be hard to find a more dramatic improvement short of replacing Todd Benzinger with Lou Gehrig.
Jonny Gomes has 200 PAs. We saw what he was as a full time player
And what he was was terrible. Either Kemp or Pence would be a huge improvement over him, especially when you factor in defense.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Ugh.
If you don’t think Pence or Kemp is a significant upgrade over Gomes, I’m not sure what to say to you.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Heh.
Gomes OPS against LHP this year is way higher than his career numbers, meaning it’s going to drop the more PAs he gets against them. We saw that start yesterday. But he has always sucked against RHP, so those numbers aren’t getting any better. So in other words, his OPS has nowhere to go but down. The more PAs he gets, the worse he’ll look. We saw that when he was an everyday player in 2010 and during the first 2 months this year. He was terrible.
Both Kemp and Pence have a sustained history of success in the bigs to go with at least average defense. They are better players than Jonny Gomes in every way.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I'm really enjoying watching you do this with someone else.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd imagine it's more fun watching me win an argument with someone else :-)
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I don't mean so much the winning
It’s more the flailing and huffing and puffing under the thin facade of composure.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You people really don't get me
I’m not ever upset on here. But it’s nice of you to be so patronizing!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
This is my favorite day.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Your a cuntfag
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
by btcoop71 on Jul 18, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Anything for our boo boo bunny!
(pats head, tousles hair)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
like johnu?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Jul 18, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was hyperbole
Gomes is essentially replacement level. He doesn’t slug nearly enough for a corner OF, and his defense is among the worst out there. Kemp and Pence are better in every facet of the game and among the league leaders in WAR for outfielders. The gap between them and Gomes is huge, even after you disregard his non-LF starts, which brings his OPS down 50 points.
Kemp
would be worth dealing for based on his 2011.
Pence to me is an average corner OF; he hits around .280-.290 with about 20-25 HRs. He hasn’t even played LF once in the majors so who knows if he’d be as good there as he is in RF (and Fangraphs has him decidedly average in RF the last two years).
This guy doesn’t bring enough to the table to want me to part with Yonder or somewhere near that class.
It'd definitely be a shame to lose the production Yonder is going to give Louisville the next few years.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yonder's
a useful trade chip. I’d prefer we use him to get something we need (i.e. an A-1 starter) then in getting something that would be a minor upgrade based on some people’s visceral dislike for a certain player.
What ace starter do you have in mind?
It’s time to trade Yonder or start using him LF at the MLB level. This is how a guy becomes a career minor leaguer. Do you want to wait until next year, leave him in the minors and hope an ace is available then? What if one isn’t?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Sure, just get Dan O'Down really, really drunk
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
For Alonso, straight up?
Haven’t heard that one. If you believe the rumors, Alonso is the 4th most valuable piece they would have to give up (at best).
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If Jocketty could get him for Alonso, straight up
I’d walk to Cincinnati right now and make myself Jocko’s sex slave for life.
That ain’t happening. FWIW, Alonso alone wouldn’t come close to getting Kemp or Pence either.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
You've obviously never met me.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Jul 18, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probably because of his personality.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
by sexsalad on Jul 18, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He doesn't have a gag reflex
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Jul 18, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
he wouldn’t. Which is one of the reasons why I think Pence is too pricey for the upgrade we would get (Kemp is another thing entirely).
We don't even know if he is actually available.
And if he is, some other team with more tools could swoop in and take him. Don’t get your hopes too high on getting him.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I never do
regarding possible trades.
Pulling the conversation back, the original proposition was that the Astros would “have to be blown away” by an offer to trade Pence. That implies they value him highly and it would be costly to get him.
Of course, I’d have to see the deal before I’d say it was a good or bad one for the Reds. My own opinion is that I wouldn’t give up a whole lot for the upgrade in LF Pence would be.
I did not mean to imply that I think Gomes is as good as Pence.
I can agree with that.
I wouldn’t give away a ton of prospects for Pence, but I’d be willing to part with a package made up of Yonder and someone like Frazier. I have no clue if the Astros would do that, but it seems better than anything the Pirates could offer. Anything more and I would be extremely hesitant to do it.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I'd prefer that too.
I’m just arguing the crazy idea that Pence or Kemp wouldn’t be a massive upgrade in LF.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Is 30 points in OPS
“massive” to you?
That is what we’d get based on their lifetime performances which is what the other poster was talking about.
Using their lifetime performances isn't fair though, at least not in Gomes' case
Which is my original point. Gomes is a career .786 OPS hitter, but he hasn’t come close to putting that up as a full time player since 2006 (when he wasn’t even really full time). Last year he was a full time player and OPSed .758 with terrible defense.
Hunter Pence has always been a full time player and has a career .821 OPS. So I think 60 OPS points, plus a ton of defensive value, is the real difference between the two. And yes, that’s massive.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
This year
he has put up a .794 OPS as a starter. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
The first poster was arguing lifetime stats in comparing Kemp and Pence. So I ran with that for Pence.
30-50 OPS would be an upgrade, but not a “massive” one. Gomes hits lefties better, so we’d lose some OPS there while picking up quite a bit against RHP. I don’t know where you get the “ton of defensive value”; Fangraphs has Pence as an average RF the last two years and he’s never even played LF in the majors.
It would be an upgrade, but not an upgrade I’d be willing to give up a whole lot for considering we may have an adequate substitute for Gomes already in the majors.
But as an everday player,
not someone who is being protected from difficult pitchers (read: Anyone with a decent breaking ball) like he is now, he was sub .700.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Also,
look at Gomes’ LF defense on UZR. Defensively alone, Pence would be worth 1-2 wins over Gomes.
And LF is considered easier to play than RF, so I don’t think he’d have much of a problem.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Pence
had two decent UZR years in 2008 and 2009. Besides that, he’s around 0.
Maybe average is an improvement over Gomes but not by that much.
That's half his career
He also came up as a center-corner tweener, like Bruce, and looks to have decent range and an accurate arm. There’s a very big defensive difference between Gomes and Pence.
There's a very big difference
defensively between Heisey and Gomes, too.
Are we going by metrics or impressions? The metrics say Gomes is bad and Pence average.
Right, and Gomes is bad enough
that Pence, just being average, would be a 1-2 win improvement over a full season.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
So we should
trade a bunch of prospects to get average defense and slightly above average offensive production in LF?
What sense does that make?
FTR, an .821 OPS would be significantly better than the NL average LF OPS, which is .748
But no, I’m not espousing trading the farm for Hunter Pence. I’m simply arguing that he is a huuuuge upgrade over Jonny Gomes, and would almost definitely be an upgrade over Heisey too.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Fine, I'll be the one to ask
Do you his the tab key before starting every comment?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Jul 18, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
jch - man of the people
always asking about the elephant in the room
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 19, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
But park and age factors in here.
Through age 26, Kemp has an OPS+ 7 points higher. That’s pretty similar, but he also had a bad year last year that weighs that down. This year indicates Kemp is going to be much better as he hits his prime, which Pence is already in the middle of.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
They won't trade him within the division, and even if they did, it would take way more than he's worth.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I'd rather the Pirates get him than a team we'll actually be competing with in September
It’s been a cute story, but that team has overachieved as much as we have underachieved.
They have to come back to earth soon. Right?
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Starting tonight, the Earth comes back to them. YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHH
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Jul 18, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Pirates don't have a Jose Rijo, Tom Browning, or any of the nasty boys.
They’ve mostly been lucky and played a really easy schedule.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Hey guys, heard you needed a baseball player! Aw shucks that's really swell that ya'll want me. I'll try my darndest.
Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive
Er, the Astros would have to be blown away.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Rangers have won 11 in a row???
impressive. is that the first 10 game streak this season?
so is Cozart’s 6 game hit streak to begin his career. wonder how many players have done that???
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
you know what would have the reds in first place?
josh hamilton in left field
by 'tHan on Jul 18, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But he doesn't have Jonny Gomes' clubhouse presence! We don't want him!
/Jamieblog’d
It feels so nice to be back to normal
i might have been wrong on that trade
i loved Hobbs, one of the very first on the bandwagon his first spring training with the Reds.
but i thought he was a huge relapse/injury risk.
i’d still like to hear an uncensorsed take on the animosity the clubhouse had for him having Narron’s bro as a personal chaperone 24/7.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I'm sure it wouldn't be a pretty take.
I’d be all for having a guy in the clubhouse that is super star good. But, if he can’t be an adult and is babied all the time that would certainly grow old.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rangers managed to deal with it last year, all the way to the World Series.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Ya I know... but does he still have someone follow him around everywhere?
Putting on his bibs and shit.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I would guess yes
Remember the fit he threw about the third base coach?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He should have been kicked in the nuts for that.
It has to be hard for him in the Texas clubhouse with Ron Washington doing all that cocaine.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you on this
I loved him at the time, but the trade made sense, especially considering the situation was aggravated by Narron’s firing.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
I think it was Narron's firing that was the reason Hamilton was traded
Some of the other players were a problem (BP, I’m lookin’ at you), and he apparently wasn’t popular with the Reds staff, either. I can see why – he comes across as being very self-centered, in that “addict” way.
But it was Narron’s firing that made keeping Hamilton impossible. Josh complained to the press about Jerry’s firing, and warned them that they better not fire Johnny, because they were a “package deal.” The Reds then fired Johnny, and I knew Josh was gone.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
no one player is bigger than the ballclub
if a rookie demanded not to have his personal handler fired id trade his ass also.
no room for prima donnas…
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
But then we wouldn't have EV to anchor the Louisville rotation.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
that Volquez trade looks better and better every day
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 19, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
The immortal Chuck Aleno started his career with a 17 game hitting streak for the '41 Reds
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.
A year that will live in infamy
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Jul 18, 2011 1:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
According to PI, there have been 11 with six games or more hit streaks to begin their careers in 2010 and 2011 alone.
So, possibly a lot.
Singer: So did you know you can bring a gun in here now?
'Mache: I BROUGHT TWO! **flexes**
I didn't realize Stynes played a bit for KC before Cincinnati
but he got a hit in his first 7 at bats with the Reds.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Ok, nevermind, baseball-reference and I clearly have a different idea of what it means to start a player's career.
Singer: So did you know you can bring a gun in here now?
'Mache: I BROUGHT TWO! **flexes**
He is a Cardinal for life... what do you expect?
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
News and Notes
Yasmani and Mesoraco are having great seasons in the minors….did anyone know Ramon as a higher OPS than both of them? (not by a lot, but he’s facing MLB arms)
Reds are 10th out of 16 NL teams in attendance. I’m going to a couple games next week, if you havent been in a while its time to support your ballclub!
Heisey has been receiving mad props around here lately, well deserved. his ytd obp is only .006 better than Edgards? and 0.50 lower than SuperFLewis?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
But, the last 6 out of 8 games by the Reds have been sell outs.
Plus I believe Slyde said something about the Reds averaging 35,000 fans since school was out? That is pretty good.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
We just need to shorten the school year
If that Fucker ran from October – March, our attendance would be balls.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparison, as 22 yr old AA 1B
Neftali Soto – .927 OPS
Joey Votto – .956 OPS
I didnt realize Soto was 22, thought he was 24ish.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
He was a young international signee.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
He was an 18 year old 3rd round pick (or was it 2nd?) out of PR.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah.... I forgot he was from PR.
dumb little territory.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
3rd round, 2007
Crazy he’s already been in the org that long. That was the Devin Mesoraco draft. Moral? Don’t give up on prospects too soon.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah, after that miserable 2009 I think he got written off
But he was pretty solid for a 21-year old last year, and of course he is killing it right now. If he can continue to develop his plate discipline, he could be a monster.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
good point
i’d pretty much written off Devin and Neftali in the past.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I never fully wrote off Devin
I thought he could end up a useful backup catcher someday, one with a little power that could split time with someone. Soto I pretty much gave up on, and he still doesn’t have a position which concerns me.
No, he's definitely a 1B
The concerning part is if he’ll hit enough to be a legit one.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah, I really wish the catcher experiment had worked
Or that he had stuck at 3B.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah, having his SLG at catcher would be great, wouldn't it?
Oh wait…
GUITAR SOLO!!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This is part of why Pittsburgh's success may be more sustainable than it seems
They have some previously highly-regarded prospects who came to be known widely as just bad, no name MLB players. Some of them are making good on real potential.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's very true on the offensive side.
And they have some pitchers coming up who are legit. But the reason they won’t keep it up this year is that their pitching staff has an ERA almost a half run lower than their FIP. That kind of disparity is usually reserved for teams in cavernous parks. The pitching will regress, the schedule will get tougher, and the offense won’t make up the difference.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I tend to agree that they'll regress on a team level
but some of the pitching regression could be made up by an acquisition or a starter like James McDonald. He was a Top 50 prospect before 2009 and has improved dramatically since the Reds beat up on him in April. He just pitched 6 shutout innings against the BoSox.
The peripheral pitching stats scream regression, you’re right, but I’m hearing a lot of commentary about the Pirates going back to the basement because “I don’t know who this is” or “this guy should suck because he did last year.”
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they will regress
because they have a weak offense, and McDonald is the only pitcher who’s ERA matches his peripherals, seriously it is hard to expect 4 pitchers who’s highest ERA is 4.01 to maintain that with K/9 in the 5s and 6s.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Karstens, among others, should collapse at any minute
But you have to argue that the types of pitchers the Pirates have in their rotation are not capable of defying their peripherals, given their repetoir, home park and defense behind them. It’s not enough just to say they’re not missing bats.
My point is that the team as a whole does not collapse because most of the rotation probably There is some sleeper value that could limit the damaging.
I really don’t know how the hell Morton and Karstens are working that voodoo.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
UGH, posted prematurely
Basically, the Pirates suck I guess.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Another issue is that the HR/FB rate is fairly low.
Although it seems down league-wide this year.
The Year of the Pitcher! (AKA the year of sucky hitters)
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It seems like there is something strange going on this year.
Balls don’t seem to be carrying very much, league wide.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Only when Arroyo, Wood, or Volquez pitch.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes Yes.
I missed a word.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The balls have clearly been unspiked.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Morton leads the league with 0.3 HR/9
On one hand, there’s no way that continues against tougher competition, after a season in which he gave up 1.7-per-9. On the other hand, like you say, HR/FB rates are down and Morton’s xFIP is actually lower than his ERA. His BABIP luck could improve while giving up a few more HRs.
It’s perfectly reasonable to think he and McDonald could be a net positive while Karstens regresses. Maybe not enough to keep them in it, but certainly not a plunge back to 2010.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, the schedule
They’ve played the Astros and Cubs 21 times, the Cardinals and Brewers 8. They’ve still gotta go to Philly and Atlanta.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I mentioned the schedule, dingus!
I’m not saying the Pirates are going to win the division. Or even finish a close second. There’s just some hidden value there that’s being glossed over.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The hidden value is in the fact that they won't lose 90 games this year.
They might even have a winning record. But they probably aren’t winning the 85 games they are on pace to win.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
IIRC Morton has lowered his arm angle on his delivery, giving him more sink
and keeping his HRs down (unsustainable now at 0.3/9 IP, but the gains are there).
I think there are certain pitching profiles
that can defy peripherals, at least for longer than expected. Sinkerballers are among them, inasmuch as they give fault LD% and yield FBs that are more consistently golfed rather than warning track shots.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he's remade his windup in the likeness of god, er, Halladay
http://philliesnation.com/archives/2011/06/charlie-morton-is-roy-halladay/
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Jul 18, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or their fielding has been amazing.
Isn’t the point of FIP to take balls in play out of the equation and look mostly at HR, walks and strikeouts? I think it’s likely that they’ve either been lucky and have a really low BABIP or their fielding has been really good, which I don’t think is the case. They just don’t seem to have a ton of great defensive players on their team. I could be dead wrong about that, but I don’t see anyone on their roster not named McCutchen that I’d consider really good on defense.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Pittsburgh is 10th in the majors in Defensive Efficiency
So yeah, they’ve enjoyed a fortunate batted ball distribution against them so far.
Yep. Their fielding isn't amazing.
Also, it can’t be stated enough how easy their schedule has been. They’ve played 36 games against >.500 teams and 57 against losing teams, including 12 against the Astros. They haven’t yet played in PHI or ATL, and have only played the Cardinals 3 times.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I didn;t realize it was that lopsided
you’ve still got to beat the losers, but I think games against STL, ATL and PHI this coming week will put a major dent in the Pirates
Yeah, 21 games against the Astros and Cubs already
that’s crazy, and probably accounts for a fifth of their wins.
Reds only have one more series against hte Cards (in StL), right?
They have lots of Cubs and Astros coming up in August and Sept.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Oh, it gets better
as 21 year-old A+ 1b:
Soto – 778 OPS
Votto – 754 OPS
They arrive there in entirely different ways, of course – Votto took a lot more walks, but Soto hits for more power.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
and Votto was stuck in Sarasota
where fly balls go to die.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
That's a great case of OPS not telling the whole story
Soto’s is based primarily on his otherworldly power (ISOp of over .300), whereas Votto was an OBP machine.
Soto is showing signs of being more selective at the plate, but he is K-ing more and walking way, way less than Votto did during his AA season.
Point being, this is a prime case of a guy who would/will get eaten alive by MLB pitching if he doesn’t improve his contact and/or selectivity. He’s no END, and I’m a big fan of Soto, but he’s still got a long ways to go.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I was going to say, I'd rather a guy walk more in the minors.
He can grow into the power, just like Votto did.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
last season might have been an aberration
he might be a 25HR guy
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
You could be right
I still keep thinking he’s getting pitched around way more than last year, but he also isn’t showing the same oppo field power.
I just keep hoping he’ll go on a 2 week, 8 homer binge at some point.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Soto is on an ungodly hot streak
Reminiscent of Heisey in AA in ’09.
I wouldn’t be so quick to anoint him Joey II.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true. Except for the backhanded dig at Heisey
Heisey always had better plate discipline than Soto does.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
True
Unfortunately, only hindsight can tell the difference between a flash in the pan and the real deal.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
teh Fay
on what it would take to get Jimenez:
I think for the Reds to get Jimenez it would take Homer Bailey, Travis Wood or Mike Leake, one of the young catchers Devin Mesoraco or Yasmani Grandal, a young prospect like Billy Hamilton or Yorman Rodriguez and another lesser prospect.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
OK, so Travis Wood, Grandal, Hamilton, and, say, LeMarre
That would qualify under Fay’s terms. Would you do it? I would.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We'd take that in a heart beat, but I'm not so sure they would.
No way a deal happens with out Alonso and Grandal IMO.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my list does include Grandal
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It does, but I don't think they'll take Lamarre.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not?
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he is Ryan LaMarre.
But, I say we do it!
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
As I read the Fay quote again, I think it might mean Bailey PLUS Wood or Leake, not Bailey, Wood, or Leake
Hard to tell.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
now that I look at it again, you could very well be right.
If it involves Bailey plus Wood or Leake it’s too much.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I'd do Leake plus Wood for Ubaldo.
But, i don’t think they should get four players then.
I think Leake, Wood, and Alonso would be enough.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’d trade Bailey and Wood for Ubaldo. Yonder too, of course. But then I wouldn’t give them a catcher.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That seems like it is pretty near to a fair trade
we should probably add another player – END / Boxy / who have you.
I'd love for this to happen
I don’t think it will, and I’m this close to sure that it won’t, but man, if it did…That’d be tits awesome sweetness to the extreme, yeah?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Ditto.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are right. The Rox have been pretty clear they want lots of pitching. It would take at least 2 arms
I’d do Wood and Leake, and maybe Bailey and Wood, but I definitely wouldn’t do Bailey and Leake.
I also think Fay is kinda dumb because Yonder Alonso would be the first name discussed in any trade with the Rockies.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I'll trade two #4 starters for one ace any day of the week.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
In a heartbeat, but you'd have to pick the better player in at least one or two of those categories for the Rockies to want it.
I’d try really hard not to give up Yorman and be really careful with Mesoraco. Other than that, everyone on Fay’s list is fair game as far as I’m concerned and instead of “a lesser prospect” I’d have no problem throwing in END, maybe even Alonso.
Wood, Mesoraco, Hamilton, END. If the Rockies wouldn’t take that, I might try a deal centered around Chapman with some lesser prospects. If the Rockies didn’t take that, I’d tell them to fuck off and find a new trade partner.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
can't we just give them Billings?
that’s close to Denver, right?
if i read that right
Homer (1st rd pick)
Wood or Leake (1st or 2nd rd pick)
Devin or Yasmani (1st rd pick)
Hamilton or Yorman (2nd rd pick or biggest international signing not named Aroldis)
and another prospect?
I think this would make the Josh Hamilton trade look competitive in retrospect…
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
People in the organization really, really love Yorman.
I think he’s one of the last they’d give up. I remember a quote from a coach saying that if Yorman had grown up in America he’d be a better prospect than Bryce Harper or something along those lines.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Yeah, that's way too much
And it’s similar to what the Rox asked from the Yanks. No one will give them that much. The question is whether O’Dowd really wants to do a deal and will negotiate, or if he’s just trolling the other GMs.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Artist's rendition of Rockies GM Dan O'Dowd
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I really want Jiminez but that's too much
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
a few years ago
i really wanted eric bedard.
unanswered prayers!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Oh wow, I had forgotten about that
Me too.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
i didn't want to give up Bailey and Votto
for a guy who had never thrown 200 innings in a season, and had only made 30+ starts once. The O’s made a great decision to unload him when they did.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Yeah, I wasn't down with what they were asking for either
But I would have given up more than $3.75 and a half eaten candy bar, which would have been a terrible idea.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I agree
if they wanted less I probably would have done it, because at the time i had no idea he would only throw 250 innings between 2008 and now.
But I think Baltimore also knew he was a huge injury risk and wanted to unload him after a full injury free season when his value was highest.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Eh? Is he back from the dead?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
90 innings so far this year with an ERA of 3
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And looking at it, he got blown up in a game early on, 6 ER in 4 IP
He’s pitched pretty damned well, wow.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
He's always good
When he pitches.
Which is not very often.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he got hurt again.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't surprise me at all
but word is he’s available.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
this year he has an ERA of 3 over 90 innings
of course who knows how long he will last.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
He has (or had) a groin injury
Not arm related, but not sure if he is back yet.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
although that could actually be a good low cost trade
Bedard is hurt right now, but he may be a bullpen session away from returning.
If Seattle sells low (and how much could they ask for a pitcher in the final year of his contract currently on the DL, and with an injury history) I’d take him right now, on the DL.
He shouldn’t cost much (in terms of talent or money) which is good for a rental, and he and Cueto would make a formidable 1-2 punch.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Isn't he more of a FB pitcher?
May not be the best fit for GABP.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
He was much more of a GB pitcher in Baltimore
Since going to Seattle, his FB% is up. Don’t know if that is injury related, or just adjusting to pitching in a big park where FB are more harmless.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
his 8.5 K/9 and low walk rate limit the damage.
Harang had similar flyball rates in his heyday, but his high number of Ks and limited walks made his flyballs a non-issue.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
in all honesty i'd rather get Bedard for cheap than Jimenez for the farm
The Reds can prep for 2012 in the off season, and maybe find a big time pitcher for next year, or if Bailey stays healthy and dominates in the second half, the issue will solve itself.
If Bailey stays healthy, Cueto doesn’t fall off, and Leake continues to be solid things will be okay.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Just imagine that 1-2 punch in the playoffs.
The Phillies put Halladay, Hamels and Lee on the mound. To combat them, the Reds use their deadly combo of Cueto and Erik Bedard, followed up by Arroyo.
That could get ugly.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Cueto has an ERA of 2.01, pretty nifty
Bedard is a strike out pitcher with an ERA of 3 even in the AL, probably will get a bump in the NL.
Bailey could very well work out to be a strong finale to a strong playoff trio.
Although I just looked up Cueto, anybody notice his k/9 is 5.22? Should that be concerning?
Nothing succeeds like failure.
He is pitching to contact and it is working.
Look at his BB/9 and his awesome GB%.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
His GB is up over 50%, much higher than it has been in his career
but his BB/9 is actually slightly higher than it was last year.
Of course he is still averaging 93 MPH, so he can strike batters out when he needs to.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
I was thinking it was slower.
I’ll take the lower k/9 if it means a higher GB%. He is getting deeper in games. When he was striking out guys he was a 5-6 inning pitcher max.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
he is at 93.3 this year
i don’t know how to read the graphs, has he added some sink to his fastball?
Nothing succeeds like failure.
I think he is throwing a few more two seamers.
Plus his slider has had some really nasty downward break.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. According to MLB Pitch FX data
He’s throwing the 2 seamer 40% of the time, and the 4 seamer only 22% of the time in 2011.
In 2010, he threw both at around 27% rate. It’s the slider he’s using a lot less this year, which was his “out” pitch but also missed the zone a lot more.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Think he is also throwing less sliders due to having 3 elbow injuries in 4 years?
Nothing succeeds like failure.
I've realized that he is throw a lot less sliders.
But, the ones he does throw are really nasty. they have a lot of outside break and then dip down hard in the strike zone at the end. It almost looks unhittable.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not generally a fan of "pitching to contact"
But I think Cueto may be an exception. In prior years, he seemed to nibble like crazy, and wind up with lots of really long at-bats. 0-1 grounders are better than 3-2 strikeouts, even if a few of them become hits.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
especially if you can still get a strike out after a couple of seeing singles
put you in a second and third one out situation.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
although the other scary thing is his BABIP is .217
so he is do for some regression to, of course his ERA could go up a run and he is still a top of the line pitcher.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
Agreed, especially with this infield defense.
He’s turning into the kind of Cardinals pitcher we hate, who shouldn’t be that good but always end up being awesome.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
He is great defensively, but supposedly will be a offensive liability.
Isn’t his last name Rosario or something? I hope I have the right guy.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Wilin Rosario, and he's supposed to hit too.
But lately he has sucked hard.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think Fay's making stuff up based on things he's heard other team's writers are saying.
It doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t ask for Alonso. They really need a 1B.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
It's only 2013, but damn. Your point stands
That was a crazy contract.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
The LeFebvre/Bevacqua stuff has some background
Bevacqua accused Lasorda of ordering his pitcher to throw at Lefebvre. Lasorda took umbrage with the idea that he would ask a pitcher to throw at such a shitty hitter.
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't have very good stuff.... but he was a pretty ballsy pitcher.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
John Heyman is teasing us. He says the likely package for Jimenez would be....
Wood/Alonso/Volquez.
Ummm, sign me up. Also, someone check on ’tHan. His head probably just exploded.
(*Important note: Heyman pulls about 80% of his tweets out of his ass)
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Volquez wouldn't be a bad throw in
he won’t be the center piece, but teams are probably interested i a 28 year old, former all star pitcher who throws 97, has a GB rate over 50% and strikes out more than a batter per inning.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
not that i think Wood, Alonso, and Volquez gets that deal for Jimenez done.
Nothing succeeds like failure.
I should've read your comment before I posted.
I agree, I think he’d be a nice 2nd pitcher as a guy with “ace” upside.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
MLBTR took the temperature and put the chance of Jimenez being traded at 10%
I thought that was still pretty high. I can’t think of any earthy reason the Rockies would want to move his contract and Grant Brisbee has it right that it’s just the “always listen on offers” school of GMing.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 18, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Would do that in two shakes of a lamb's tail
But I’d bet there are a few teams who could and would offer more.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Volquez?
You gotta be kidding me.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm sure a lot of clubs think he just needs a good pitching coach to get right
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I would make a johnu joke, but I don't want to start a fight.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Fight! Fight! Fight!
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Broken hip.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you laugh, but consider if he went to STL
You know Duncan would wave his magic wand over Volquez and he’d win three straight Cy Youngs.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Completely agree
He’s the kind of guy teams think they can fix. His stuff is still electric. And he has the crazy high ceiling of a prospect, with the added bonus of having done it before.
I don’t think he’d be a centerpiece, but I could see him being the “high-ceiling” guy to go with a safer guy like Leake or Wood.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Um, what?
If that happens, you can be Walt’s sex slave and I’ll go be O’Dowd’s sex slave. Both GMs would need to be properly thanked.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
I think that might get O'Dowd sent to prison
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you want to get O'Dowd arrested?
Then the deal probably won’t get done.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Jul 18, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
True, true.
Someone else needs to do it. Any volunteers?
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
So you are OK with being O'Dowd's sex slave, as long as he doesn't touch your breasts?
I’ll let him know.
(I assume that’s what you meant by “No Tit”).
Okay I'm pretendin that my tongue is all goin crazy.....man hee hee this is kinda fun
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 18, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if...
….I was being ass raped as a sex slave, who grabs my tits is not my first concern.
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
He don't eat meat but he sure likes the bone?
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 18, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy Shit
If that is what gets it done, pull the trigger.
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
Right
Ergo, it is clearly not what gets it done.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 18, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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