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Point/Counterpoint: Why you should be hopeful for the Reds' second half, and why you'd be a dope for doing so

"It gets better.  Or maybe it doesn't."

I know it just as well as you do.  I'm not any happier about it than you are.  When we found out in last night's episode of Franklin and Bash that Franklin keeps a bunch of lame-o stuff in his safe-deposit box (worst secret-reveal ever), it was easy to lose hope and turn the channel.  But you know what?  That's exactly how Franklin and Bash were hoping you'd react.  Franklin showed us he's not the total rock star/superman we thought he was; he's just a guy.  Just like you and me.  Just like...you and me.  So you can't give up on them.  Franklin and Bash will sure as hell never give up on you.

Oh yeah, and baseball.  I know it just as well as you do.  I'm not any happier about it than you are.  It's the All-Star break and our Redlegs are in 4th place, two games under .500 and four games out of first place (and three games behind the Pirates if you can even believe that).  There really is no equivocating about it.  This first half of the season has been a disappointment.  Brendan is going to try to tell you that it's bad.  Real bad.  The last week has been particularly grueling, as they faced off with the Cardinals and Brewers and hung with them pretty well, getting outscored only 38-32 but only winning two of the seven games.  But I'm going to tell you it's not that bad.  In fact, there are a number of reasons to believe this is still the best baseball team in the NL Central and that they will start to play like it very soon.  There are a number of reasons to believe that not only will this team start playing like the best, but they will actually pull this out and prove they are the best.  Jomp it:

Star-divide

 

  • Scott Rolen is going to hit better.  So far this year, Rolen has been a weak link in the lineup, posting a .295 wOBA in just 62 games.  Even worse, he's done so from the 4th and 5th spots in the lineup.  But there is reason to believe that this is not the inevitable decline of a Hall of Famer.  His walk rate is a career-low 3.5%, down from his career average of 10.6%.  This could mean one of two things:  either Scott Rolen has, at 36 years old, completely forgotten what the strike zone looks like, or this is the result of a small sample size of 250 plate appearances.  ZiPS rest-of-season projections think Rolen will boost that Juan Franciscan walk rate up to a more respectable 7%.  That seems much more reasonable.

    Also of note, he's been the on the short-end of the BABIP-luck-spectrum, hitting just .260 on balls in play.  His batted-ball rates are all pretty much in line with his career averages, as he's still lacing line drives at a healthy 20% clip.  His HR/fly ball rate is half what it usually is, so it seems the luck dragon has decided to drop a dump right in the spot in the dugout where Rolen usually stands. 

    Sure, he's getting old and he'll probably never replicate the excellent numbers from the first half of last season.  But he's not done yet.  
  • Shortstop is going to improve.  Paul Janish and Edgar Renteria have teamed up to make SS the worst position on this Reds team so far this year.  According to FanGraphs, they have combined for -0.1 WAR (B-Ref has them at exactly 0), so pretty much the very definition of a replacement player.  Lucky for us, the Reds called up Zack Cozart.  He will never reproduce the .365 wOBA he put up in AAA this year, but he almost assuredly beat Janish's .238 and Renteria's .269.  Oh yeah, and he sports a solidly above-average glove at the position, too.  Whatever Zack Cozart does from here on out, it will be better than what Janteria have done so far.  Not to take anything away from Zack, but just about anyone would be better than they have been.
  • Bronson Arroyo is a notoriously strong finisher.  As predictable as the return of the salmon of Capistrano, the calls bemoaning the presence of Bronson Arroyo in the Reds' rotation are in full throat this time of year.  At this time in '09, he had an ERA near 6 and the word was that the Reds were thinking of trading him.  Problem was, few teams wanted a pitcher making them kinda bones and putting up them kinda numbers.  At this time in '10 he was a bit better off, but many still believed his presence was just clogging up the rotation.  Young pitchers like Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, Travis Wood, and Edinson Volquez were big-league ready and full of potential and there didn't seem to be much use for an old and expensive pitcher like Arroyo.  His long-time rotation mate Aaron Harang had one foot out the door and more than a few were ready to see Arroyo follow him.

    This year, of course, is no different.  Well, actually it is because he has a new contract that will keep him here another two years after this, but the calls bemoaning his presence are yet again in full throat.  And it's not at all unwarranted.  BroYo has been bad this year, posting a 5.58 ERA (70 ERA+) and a 5.52 FIP.  That's baaaad.  He's given up a league-leading 25 home runs.  That's baaaaaaaaaad. 

    But there is reason for hope.  His home run rate is sure to regress to normal, as he's given up more than two home runs per nine innings.  His career rate is just a shade over 1/9.  His BB rate is actually down this year, and it hasn't effected his K rate at all.  All of this is reflected in his xFIP, which is a much more palatable 4.14 (his career xFIP is 4.43).  There is also the matter of his 1st half/2nd half splits.  His 2nd half ERA over his career is more than a run better than his 1st half ERA.  For whatever reason, the late summer is when Arroyo performs the best.  I guess it's just better boat weather or something.
  • The schedule will get easier.  The rest of July is, to borrow an off-color metaphor from Marty, a Bataan Death March.  Over the next two-plus weeks, they will face the Cardinals, the Pirates, the Braves, the Mets, and the Giants.  All of those teams are above .500, and the Cards, Braves, and Giants all have serious post-season aspirations.  There is no dressing these windows:  this is going to be a pivotal stretch for our Reds heading to the trade deadline. 

    But once the calendar turns to August things will get better.  The only +.500 teams the Reds will face for the entire month are the Pirates and the Phillies.  Even if the team goes into the month four or five games back, they will have ample opportunity to make up ground here.  September is a very favorable month as well, with 10 games against the Cubs and Astros.  As long as this team can tread water until the trade deadline, they will have a chance at the division.
  • Speaking of the trade deadline, they have the pieces to make some tremendous moves.  There is no team in the majors right now that can boast the kind of young, cheap, and tradeable talent that the Reds can.  Yonder Alonso, Juan Francisco, Todd Frazier, Travis Wood, Devin Mesoraco, Dave Sappelt, and Brad Boxberger are all performing well in Louisville and could be deemed expendable.  And that's just the guys in AAA.  Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, and Chris Heisey are on the big league club and could also be shipped out in the right deal.  Suffice to say, the Reds are limited only in what other teams are willing to make available.  In the candy shoppe that is the July trading season, the Reds are the fat little rich kid with a sticky twenty dollar bill in his pocket.  They can get anything they want.
  • The rest of the Central contenders have their fair share of warts, too.  As JinAZ has so deftly illustrated in his series preview posts, the Reds have, at a component level, played just as well or better than both the division leaders thus far (you can check back at the Brewers preview here, and the Cardinals preview here).  Both teams have problems in the bullpen, and the Brewers have attempted to address this by adding Francisco Rodriguez.  Unfortunately for them, this move likely cost them the ability to upgrade where they really do need it, which is the left side of the infield.  Yuniesky two-pitch at-Batencourt and Casey McGehee have been brutal so far and they could use an upgrade in the worst way.  But after the Greinke and Marcum trades this winter, the cupboard is positively bare for the Brewers.  They likely don't have the prospects necessary to make any more moves. 
  • The Cardinals are in a better position, prospect-wise.  They have a top arm in Shelby Miller but likely will be too reluctant to give him up.  They could look to add a starter, some relief help, or perhaps a middle infielder, but the fact remains that Adam Wainwright isn't walking through that door.

    The Pirates, as refreshing it is to see such a sad-sack franchise making good, are going to fail down the stretch.  Their offense is non-existent outside of Andrew McCutcheon.  Their rotation is getting by on smoke and mirrors.  I hate to be so summarily dismissive of them, as it seems like all I'm saying is "these are are the same Pirates".  I can assure you that they are not.  This is a good team.  They just aren't good enough to hang with the big dogs just yet.

    So there you have it.  Six good reasons to be optimistic about this Reds team right now.  Oh, and a seventh:  Pythag says they should be in a tie for 1st place right now.  They've been really unlucky in one-run games, as nearly half their losses have come in that heart-rending fashion.  Oh, and an eighth:  we have Joey Votto and they don't.  So don't lose hope.  You can't give up on them.  The Reds will sure as hell never give up on you. 

And now, the rebuttal.  Courtesy of Brendanukkah

In the movie Croupier, Clive Owen's then-girlfriend Marion recoils from his seemingly nihilistic worldview.  "Without hope," she says, "there's no point to anything."  But Marion's a romantic.  It's not that Clive doesn't believe in hope.  He just believes in the inexorable grind of pragmatism and reality.  "The world breaks everyone," he reminds us.  "And afterwards, many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break, it kills - it kills the very good, and the very gentle, and the very brave, impartially. If you are none of these, you can be sure it will kill you, too, but there will be no special hurry."

The Reds are not making the playoffs this year.  I've accepted this notion.  It's very easy to admire those of you that still have hope, and if the Reds do make it to the postseason, then your sense of satisfaction and vicarious accomplishment will be all the greater.  But they're not, and so the disappointment you feel will be so much greater, too.  Give up your dreams of glory now, and find satisfaction in these glorious summer days, an engrossing book, the company of loved ones and friends, or dressing up to go to the midnight showing of Harry Potter.Why won't the Reds win?

  • The odds are against them.  Coolstandings gives the Reds a 19.4% chance of making the playoffs.  Which means there's a greater than 80% chance they miss out entirely.  Four out of every five scenarios in which this season plays out results in failure for our favorites.  And even that number is low, because the 19.4% chance includes the 2.9% chance the Reds have of winning the Wild Card.  The two best teams in the National League right now, by a wide margin, are Philadelphia and Atlanta.  The Wild Card winner is going to come out of the NL East.  That means the Reds have to win their division outright, and they only have a 16.6% chance of doing that.  The Pirates, by contrast, have a 28.6% chance to win.
  • We suck against the American League.  The Reds are actually pretty good against their division.  They are 14-14 against the three teams ahead of them (13-9 against the Brewers and Cardinals), and even better against the dregs of the division, the Cubs and Astros.  That all sounds like a pretty good recipe for getting to the playoffs, but interleague has thrown a massive spanner in that plan.  The Reds finished interleague play just 6-12 after playing the Indians, Orioles, Yankees, Rays, and Blue Jays.  None of the other relevant teams in the Central (MIL: 6-9, PIT: 8-7, STL: 8-7) crumbled as spectacularly as the Reds did.  Had the Reds gone even 8-10 against the AL, they'd be only two games out and my outlook would be much rosier.  But even in the All-Star Game, the four Reds representatives managed to go 0-6 with four strikeouts.
  • We've exhausted our injury and luck karma.  At the beginning of the season, it looked like the Reds, Cardinals, and Brewers would be in a three team race.  Then Adam Wainwright went down for the season.  Then Albert Pujols broke his forearm for about a day.  Then we played a series in which Ryan Braun did nothing but sit on the bench and use up a roster spot.  Chris Carpenter and Zack Greinke collectively won about 3 games in the first half of the year.  And the Reds were unable to capitalize.  More injuries could happen in the second half, but that's traditionally when Jay Bruce makes his annual wrist-breaking dive.  The other teams have spun the chamber, stuck the barrel in their mouths and pulled the trigger.  It's our turn now.  Di di mau!
  • The Reds don't handle pressure well.  I don't have any stats to back it up, but it sure seems like whenever the Reds play on national TV, they come out smelling like Pete Rose (Gold Bond and skanks; not good).  I do know that they went 0-3 in their astoundingly brief playoff run last year, and in two must-win series against their main rivals for the Central crown heading into the break, they went 2-5.  Sure, they were competitive in all those series, but they didn't win.  Perhaps the breaks will start going our way, or the team will learn to manufacture its own luck, but I'm not counting on it.
  • The team is lifeless.  Again, no way to quantify this, but the resilient spirit of last year's team just isn't there.  Their awful 13-21 record in one run games is a good enough number as any to show that they like the heart to finish off comebacks or hold on to late leads.  I might believe in this team again if a great trade or two could reinvigorate the team.  Walt Jocketty isn't necessarily one for splashy trade deadline deals.  In 2008, he traded away Ken Griffey, Jr. and the team had a worse winning percentage in the second half (.479-.424).  In 2009, he traded for Scott Rolen and the team had a worse winning percentage in the second half (.483-.480).  In 2010, he traded for Jim Edmonds and the team had a better winning percentage in the second half (.544-.583).  So under Jocketty, the team is one for three in improving in the second half.  Like their actual record, I'm not looking for it to reach .500 this year.
  • Too many games out and too many teams to leapfrog.  If the Reds were four games out, but in second place, I wouldn't be worried.  If the Reds were in fourth place, but less than four games out, I wouldn't be worried.  But the combination is a bad one.  They not only have to improve their own play, they have to hope that three teams start playing worse.  And they do this in the light that Milwaukee has already strengthened its bullpen, the Cardinals have two of the best hitters in the league - and that doesn't even count Albert Pujols, Andrew McCutchen is having an MVP season, and the impact trade targets (Jose Reyes, Ubaldo Jimenez, etc.) seem to be out of reach, so far.  There's little undervaluing just how important the series in St. Louis and Milwaukee just were.  A win in both series puts the Reds among the division leaders, possibly in first place.  Instead, they remain in fourth and their chance to make up ground has been dashed.  I won't deny that the division is mediocre and could be had, but not by the Reds.  They've lost six of their last seven series, and their next 16 games are all against winning teams.  They're only four games out now, but unless they start sweeping some series, that will become 5, 6, 7 games out, and before you know it, the team's out of contention.  Some of us know it already.

But hey, Johnny Cueto's pitching well.  So are Mike Leake and Aroldis Chapman after stints in Louisville.  Joey Votto could start playing like an MVP again.  A nicely timed acquisition of Hiroki Kuroda could stabilize the rotation.  Zack Cozart might give us some production from shortstop, and hey, Yonder Alonso might just be the answer in left field.  That seems like a lot of gambles that have to go right, long odds.  But as Clive Owen says, "Gambling's about not facing reality, ignoring the odds."

And despite my admonitions to do something better with your time, I know that I'll find myself back here again and again, night after night.  And I'll love it.

"A wave of elation came over him; he was hooked again... watching people lose."

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Well done gentlemen. This serves as a nice microcosm to the season

As I was reading I was feeling great, then terrible, then defiant, then blindly hopeful.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 14, 2011 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

#HatsOff

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jul 14, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotta agree with the 2nd analysis

it’s time to get a good look at some of the young players who the Reds hope to count on for 2012 season — Mesoraco, new left fielder, etc. Probably time to trade Hernandez, Cordero, and dump Renteria.

by cokane on Jul 14, 2011 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

i'd like to think

there might be some interesting “now and later” trades, for exactly this reason.

Renting a player for this year would be a poor use of our trade chips.

Getting someone who might help this year (even if a bit less than a rental) but would stick around for two more… that sounds interesting.

IMHO, that’s the best thing about the Ubaldo rumors — cost controlled for a couple of years after this one.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Jul 14, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Apart from possibly a reliever, I don’t see Walt making any trades for pure rentals.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 14, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

that and

Milwaukee is clearly gunning for this year, Berkman and/or Pujols won’t be back for the Cards (even though they do get Waino back). so things may be easier next year.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 14, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'd be cool to get

Heath Bell or Koji Uehara. Bell’s a rental, but Uehara is under team control ‘til ’15 (which probably puts him off-limits or the O’s ask too steep). He’s 36, but that’d be a possible closer/set-up solution after Cordero and Chapman (hopefully) leave the ’pen.

Joe Nathan is also an intriguing case. He might just end up sucking for the rest of ‘11. But he’s signed through ’12. If Minnesota ate some salary, it could be an interesting move for next season. It would probably be overpaying in salary and/or prospects though, which I argued strongly against earlier.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe the Japanese players aren't subject to team control beyond their contract

Not positive if that’s the case for Uehara, but I know that other guys (Iguchi) had some loophole that got them around the reserve clause.

by ken on Jul 14, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uehara can elect for FA when his contract expires.

He has an option for next season that vests with 18 more appearances this year, however. Even so, I’m not sure his extreme flyball tendencies are a great fit for a Reds reliever, even with his ability to get strikeouts.

by Geki on Jul 14, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, OK

I wonder how, practically speaking, they’re able to skirt the Reserve Clause.

Seems like Uehara and Bell are the best of the batch that’s said to be available. But it’s a good point about the fly balls. His K/9 is gaudy and he’s walked only 1.5-per-9 in his MLB career, but his FB% is ugly. He’s giving up a lot of HRs despite basically an average FB/HR ratio.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is GABP nuch more of a homerun park than Camden Yards?

When you come to the fork in the road, take it.

by poojols on Jul 14, 2011 10:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

lots of disparities between the draft and international FA's

Something that will probably be addressed in the next labor deal

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 14, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am not sure if it will be fixed

i think players like that there can be top end players like Chapman who get large payouts, and the owners like that they can pick up players like Cueto for cheap.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 15, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

2 things baseball might as well do

if they’re going to have 2 sets of rules for people coming into baseball, they should just make all people including HS & college athletes free agents. No need for a draft!

also, if they’re going to have a DH & push it on the NL (which seems inevitable) they might as well just go the football route & have offensive and defensive players. Fielders should never hit & hitters should never field!

by 'tHan on Jul 15, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you see the DH in the NL as inevitable?

The current system is going on 40 years. Unless there’s serious talk of contraction, I don’t see it being brought up.

by ken on Jul 15, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could see the owners offering it to the players if they are trying to get something in labor talks

I don’t really see how it helps the players, there are plenty of old broken down NL players who shouldn’t play defense but due because they still hit.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 15, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

DH is used by almost every pro league now

And yeah, anybody can cite the exception or two.

I think most fans are used to it by now and probably won’t be too pissed off if the NL adopts it.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm ready to completely blow it up

add the dh to the nl, radical realignment and full interleague play.

would make baseball more exciting for a year or two anyway.

by 'tHan on Jul 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

There were more rumblings over the ASB about the Astros moving to the AL West

I think realignment will probably happen, but maybe not next year. I’d really hate to see expanded playoffs though.

by ken on Jul 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

i like the playoffs the way they are now

and actually in 93 we saw what is exciting about the old larger divisions, when the Giants and Braves went down to the wire.

Fuck it, lets end inter league play, end the divisions, and the best team of each league plays in the World Series, that would create a stronger likelyhood of the best team winning the championship, rather than the 2006 Cardinals.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 15, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yabbit ...

When the Mets were 53 games out in August, playing the Cubs, who were 46 out, it made for some really thrilling theater.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with adding the DH to the NL

and radical realignment

Should have geographical alignment, so the Reds and Indians play each other more often than just interleague, and while there could still be an AL & NL, let them all play each other the same minimum, and then have the remaining balance be within your division

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Jul 16, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

full on academies would be fun to have

if you could have 30 Bradentons, one for each baseball team, to have their best players come through from age 16. It’d probably help the Dominicans get acclimated to American life easier (especially if they could somehow swing family-wide visas) and it would be fun to see teams develop a “style” of play system-wide. It would never happen, though.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it could be attractive to Florida

since they are losing all of their Spring Training facilities to Phoenix.

Why do you think it would never happen?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

same reason NBDL never picked up

there’s a lot of money in college ball, lots of whenging about how important academics are, etc.

IMG actually does run a fairly successful summer baseball academy. Most summer camps operate, though, on giving prospects full rides and having the non-prospects pay tuition to cover them (sort of like how college works, I suppose).

To have a full league would require more money from MLB which would also require lots of “death of boys of summer/American Dream” sort of articles that fly in the face of What Baseball Stands For and somesuch. Then again, the DH also flies in that face, so who knows.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the U.S. needs to annex the D.R.

make it a state and build some real ballparks there.
Then we invade Haiti … well, we can turn that over to the French … since it’s all their fault they don’t play baseball there.

But they do make the baseballs.
(or did)

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

it just doesn't matter

When you come to the fork in the road, take it.

by poojols on Jul 14, 2011 5:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

It was a strong rebuttal from the Existentialists

or, Team Self-Discovery Channel.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ironically, that team no longer exists

yet somehow, in 2011, there’s a Team Radioshack.

by ken on Jul 15, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

What's up with Contador?

He’s only 28 but he looked old as hell yesterday. If the Schlecks don’t ride away with this it will be a tremendous upset.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 15, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

His knee's giving him some problems

Also, over at Podium Cafe (SBN synergies FTW!), there’s a post about Contador saying he has the field right where he wants them. “Now everyone will be fatigued and that is in my favor.” Heh.

Sorta agree about the Schlecks, but I’m interested to see if Ivan Basso can put together a few good climbs this weekend and make a run for it.

by ken on Jul 15, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ol' Bridesmaid Basso

I’ve always liked him, but I think he missed his chance with the suspension a few years back. Shame, that.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 15, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Still hopeful for a strong second-half from Arroyo

but his first half was the worst of his career. And among the worst first halves from a SP this season. I think he needs to go on the DL do a rehab start or three, if only to clear his head.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think he needs to clear his head

he has been terrible before and bounced back. I think he is mentally capable of moving on after a bad start, I just know if he is physically capable to be a quality starter at this point.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Head-clearing" is just the low-hanging fruit

He very possibly has several physical ailments affecting his performance right now.

The bounce-backs are well-documented, but this is the worst Arroyo has been in a first-half. It doesn’t matter in any case, since he’s going probably going to make every one of his starts in the second-half. He’s scheduled to make the second start of the STL series on Saturday.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has shown signs of being effective for 5 and a third innings

Now, knowing this, can the dugout staff adjust?
Or do we wait until it’s 2 on, 2 in, none out, nobody warming up?

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

and he's at 74 pitches?

what do you do?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Try to win the game with your best available pitching.

Being able to count to 74 is overrated.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

why on earth is he pitching in that series?

why not open with Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Arroyo, Willis?

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know. I don't get it

He’s been, by far, the worst pitcher on the team recently, so they start him 2nd out of the gate.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 14, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

A rebuttal to the rebuttal:
  1. No, the odds of the Reds making the playoffs is, in fact, 19.4%; there is a non-zero chance the wild card isn’t from the East, and the Reds gain a small additional chance from that.
  2. However bad the Reds were against the AL, it no longer matters – they don’t play any of those teams again, unless it’s in the World Series.
  3. I’ll see your injuries to APoo and Braun, and raise: Scott Rolen’s BABIP 46 points below his career average and the twin disasters that are SS/LF so far. All three should show marked improvement in the 2nd half.
  4. The only reason they lost the two pre-ASG break series can be explained in two words: Francisco Cordero. I’m of the opinion that unlike his other bosses, Jockety will force Baker to make better baseball decisions, and Massett and/or Chapman will start seeing more close opportunities.
  5. Wins in one-run games are purely luck. There’s no reason to believe the Reds won’t start winning more of those games. To underscore the bad luck: Their Pythagorean W/L is 49-43, while the Brewers’ is 46-46; teams tend towards their Pythag record as the season progresses.

"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"

by sidnancy on Jul 14, 2011 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's still a 3-team race, and the Pirates ain't one of the three

Which means that being 4th right now would be a bigger problem if we were far behind in 4th.
By Monday, we could be 2nd again.

Despite all that, whatever our expectations are, we’d all agree that winning a pennant isn’t as much a matter of luck as it is beating 3 or 4 of the best pitchers in the league, almost all in a row.

But if winning a divisional title is within our scope of happiness, that’s still possible.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I side with Brendan

The only hopeful point is that the schedule gets easier. But maybe not as easier as we thought. The Mets will probably be gutted by then, but the Pirates might pwn us.

I’m really concerned about Rolen. Whether he’s old and in terminal decline or has just been unlucky…he’s not really a second-half guy. Dusty said he’d rest him more this year, because he wore down last year despite getting Sundays off. But Rolen’s gotten less rest, not more, and it doesn’t seem to be helping him.

Arroyo…I have a little more hope for him. But maybe it’s a bad year for him. Or maybe he’s in terminal decline, too. His fastball has been getting slower, and his WAR has dropped steadily over the past five years. Expecting him to turn it around might be expecting too much.

And even if the team has just been unlucky…that doesn’t mean they’ll be luckier in the second half. Just like if you have five boys in a row, that doesn’t increase your chances of having a girl the next time. Over a large enough sample size it should even out, but we’re running out of sample size this season.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 6:38 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, and since we're sadly Reposter-less today...

The Enquirer breaks down the second half, series by series

The Fayplacement does a little Point/Counterpoint of his own

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

oh, and

MLB Trade Rumors says the Reds are looking for relievers.

I guess any improvement is a good thing, but somehow, that’s not the first problem I’d fix.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always held to the theory that teams looking for relievers in the 2nd half ...

… were essentially saying that what they really needed was starters but since they couldn’t find any, they’d hope they could salvage somebody like Mike Lincoln or Justin Lehr off the scrap heap. In other words, mopup relief help is really not that hard to find.

Most of these guys are just 180 days from being DFA’d anyhow.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

awwh hell!

Bily Mo got DFA’d by the D-bags!

No problem, fuckweasel! - jch24

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 14, 2011 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

boo

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 14, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he was kicking butt

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was 9-46 with 5 homers and no walks, for a line of .196/.196/.522.

That is, how shall we say, “unique”.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 15, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, the guy who could have been up to bat for the Mudville 9 had Casey been walked.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

sounds familiar

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair

he was OPSing .718

"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428

by sexsalad on Jul 15, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

For whatever reason, that line really makes me smile.

It’s what Wily Mo was put on this earth to do.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Travis Wood

stinking up the joint in the first inning.

Call him up, he’s ready!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

what's not to like about Wood?

Frazier with the RBI double. They’re gonna bail him out!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frazier scores

on a dopey error by Lastings Milledge.

Might have lost it in the lights….

Game tied.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell, yeah

New Yorker that I am. They really thought he was gonna be someone.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously why is the teams second best starter in the first half, the 5th starter?

I think Leake is ready to step up his innings this year, He threw 138 innings last year, 160-170 isn’t out of the question, which could get him through the season.

God damn it is like they don’t even want to win.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 7:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Jeremy Guthrie is getting lambasted by the Indians

They got Carlos Santana for Casey Blake. We should do a trade like that.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 14, 2011 7:42 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

My favorite
2nd favorite

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pebbly Jack Glasscock!

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone hear the trade rumor about JD Drew?

Listening to the radio this afternoon and heard a rumor, don’t know how valid, Walt was working with Boston on acquiring JD Drew. Anyone else hear about this?

by Jack Armstrong started an All Star Game on Jul 14, 2011 7:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

If true, Walt's ex-Cardinal fetish has jumped the shark

He hits righties well, but we have two LFers on the team already that can probably do that as well or better at this point.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

It took a while for Melvin to exhaust his obsession with his old draft picks for the Rangers.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 14, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Travis Wood just picked off Gookie Dawkins

Weird.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Mike Leake tweeted a link to this blog

(here) but I disagree with this author’s ranking of players’ hotness. In fact, the whole tone of it was a little weird/creepy. In any case, Drew Stubbs was high on the list

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

hmmm

I disagree with it as well. Can’t complain too much about Heisey being #1. But Stubbs is way too high on the list. No way is he hotter than Jo-eh. I love Stubbs as a player. But looks-wise, he always reminds me of Smilin’ Bob, the Enzyte guy.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

I can live with Heisey at #1, he really is an attractive man especially without the beard, but Stubby is not better looking than Joey, or Jay, for that matter. I do think he is a nice looking guy, but certainly not outdoing those two

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know who's super attractive?

Yes.

"Luna Lovegood is really freaking awesome in every way." -Me

by crolfer on Jul 14, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Saw a tiny, bright red spider today croifs.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 14, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is getting close to the point where we need to have an intervention for you

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Jul 14, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can't believe you two...

would use this space to objectify men like this! For shame, ladies.For shame.

by DocRam on Jul 14, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know

I’m shocked and appalled at myself.

So, what do you think? Who’s the hottest, Heisey, Votto, or Bruce?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Joey's not really my type

But I must say, that photo up top is nice. He’s got kiss-me eyes in that pic.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

it won't be a surprise that I would choose Joey

but I have to say Heisey is a very good looking guy. We should get some kind of grant to empirically test this. Maybe show pictures of the top 3-4 good looking players from the team to a random grouping of college students and see which one wins out.

Or, we could just ask truly objective observer to choose, such as ol pete.

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I admire your commitment

but I’m afraid he’s just not in the top 20 of best looking Redlegs. Mr. LeCure definitely makes the list before Maloney

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

one day all of you guys will realize how truely great Matt Maloney is

and you will all say, we should have listened to Yossarian back in 2009.

I am driving the horses on the bandwagon right now, but it is going to fill up.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Horses?

Geez, take the train.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maloney ain't dirt ugly

So this is about what women like.
A couple of females I’ve talked with said they think Scott Rolen is handsome in a “country western” sort of way. I don’t get into that debate much.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Val Kilmer?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

*left

the one on the left. I iz smart.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Val Kilmer was bald.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've said before

that I think Rolen is an OK looking guy. I know that others strongly disagree, but he’s not too bad. Especially when he still had most of his hair:

In any case, to paraphrase Mr. Rochester’s response to Jane when she declared that he was not handsome, Rolen has all his limbs and features. I just hope he can start hitting like he wasn’t 70

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, look at how much he has aged

I hope I don’t age like that over the next 10 years….

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Realizing, the women who confide in me ...

… are a bit more mature than is the average woman who drools over a ballplayer. So Rolen at age 35 is not exactly an “antique” to women who are my age. In fact … he’s more like jail bait than anything.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

my friend's old lady has the bigtime hots for Rolen

she’s in her early 30’s

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wish he was actually interviewed and put on youtube more often, he's clearly hilarious

but yeah. I find young Rolen really jarring to look at:

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

it is a pretty rapid aging that occurred

but I think part of that is that young Rolen was kind of baby faced. A guy like Votto with more chiseled features will probably age better overall.

Agreed about Rolen being funny. I think he could be pretty charming if he wanted to be with that alone

by Red_Poodle on Jul 15, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

BP has a pic

of Rolen, himself, Joey and Bruce. Rolen’s sheer stature is worth something

by Red_Poodle on Jul 15, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

but

Maloney does yoga, so there’s that.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 15, 2011 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd go with Votto

Those dark Italian features win out over Heisey’s and Bruce’s captain-of-the-football-team looks.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 14, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bruce still looks 13 to me

and admit it, Charlie. Joey Votto’s eyebrows just remind you of a certain Jennifer’s

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 14, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you think my name is the way it is?

I always thought Bruce looked like he was 13. He looks like a big god damned baby.

You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Jul 15, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did anyone hear the fan the SF series

yelling EYYYEBROWSSSSS during Jo-eh’s at bats?

by mrsmith35sg on Jul 15, 2011 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

heisey

but why did this list give no love to cozart?

#GlaringOmission!

by 'tHan on Jul 15, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me

Ever notice how you never hear him described as “scrappy”?

Or even if I just like such as judged a fish contest that would get me outta the house and in some air.

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 15, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's sort of my point

Dave Sappelt has every characteristic of a “scrappy” player (small stature, lack of power, good speed, aggressive style) save for one: in baseball, “scrappy” means “white guy”. Just like in the NFL when you hear someone described as “sneaky fast”.

Or even if I just like such as judged a fish contest that would get me outta the house and in some air.

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Jul 15, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think lack of power applies to Sappelt

Basically, scrappy means “can’t hit” in my book. Doesn’t apply to Sap.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 15, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't they serve that in trashy Philly diners?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I LOVE scrapple

Don’t know and don’t care what’s in it.

by ken on Jul 15, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

x

I don’t care that you’re bowlegged and I don’t care that you’re bilingual – all I know is that I would have said no to every single person on your list because I’ve always wanted you.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get your point, but

to be fair, guys in the minors are rarely described as anything, because no one really cares enough.

If he gets to the bigs, I’d bet you’ll hear people (outside of RR) describe him that way.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 15, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chapman is ranked kinda low, dont you think?

I liked the dap for Carlos Fisher though.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 14, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Louisville game tied at 4 all

Janish walked, stole 2B, went to 3B on a bad pickoff, but was stranded there.

Meanwhile, the Yanks have a back up infielder who’s all bat, no glove. Eight runs scored in the first, only 3 earned. (Thanks, Eduardo Nunez.) They might be willing to take Renteria or Janish off the Reds’ hands. Or Cairo.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Janish stealing second?

He has tools that were left in the shed.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

sigh

Danny Dorn singled, but Todd Frazier grounded into a DP.

It’s up to Mike Costanzo now.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jordan Smith

just gave up a 2-run homer.

Game no longer tied. :-(

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 14, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 15, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

perhaps

remember when he was useful?

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 15, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the dept of prolly meaningless

while clicking around iTunes radio stations, Bernie Mik… whatever in St. Louis said he talked to someone – sorry I can’t remember – and he said that by this time next week, the Reds will have traded for a starter.

Also supposedly a lot of scouts at Ubaldo’s start and the tv guys say he’s not available.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 14, 2011 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

All this is interesting stuff, trade rumors ...

Let’s assume any deal the Reds make is a 2-way deal.
The best chip we have is CMM, who is really needed by SF.

Now if it’s a multi-team deal, who’s most likely in the NL to be dealing?
I’d say LA-LA, so I would take Kershaw for CMM and let the Dodgers make their own deal with SF.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I highly doubt that would happen

LA and SF probably don’t want to deal intra division.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not for MLB roster guys but LA might go for some prospects.

I have no reason to connect any of these dots. I would just like Kershaw of any pitcher who might be even close to somebody who might be available. I don’t know anything about his contract. I just like the way he pitches.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

The intra-division thing is the craziest part of that deal.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 14, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hard to ignore the fact that SF is looking for a catcher.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no reason to believe they'd ask my opinion anyhow.

We need a starter. I like Kershaw.
The Giants need a catcher.
LA-La is being run by a bunch of office clerks.
Whatever stirs your coffee after that.
(The key part of this is that I like Kershaw, which tends to diminish it as anything useful.)

But we could talk about the guy.
Anybody think he’s worth a deal?

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

he is going to cost a lot more than CMM, regardless of the third dance partner.

Perhaps more likely is we trade CMM to SF, take whomever we get from them and deal him on to LA as a part of a package for Kershaw. I don’t see that happening but it isn’t unprecedented, as Piazza once spent a week in Florida teal, and I believe Bowden got his hands on former Braves outfield prospect Langerhans about 2 weeks after the Braves dealt him out of the division, and turned down several discussions with the Nationals about him.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah, but we don't get Kershaw for CMM

We get somebody else for CMM.

That is how 3-ways are done. The exact order is of no consequence to me and it doesn’t have to happen all in one day.

Has anybody even suggested that Kershaw is on the market?

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drat, can we get Koufax?

Since there is no fucking way we get Kershaw.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

i tend to agree with this

i am guessing they would have to be blown away.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I figured, we go out to get a pitcher ...

Can’t we at least ask about the good ones?

We don’t need no Eric Miltons.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

But, pitchers who tend to be traded at this portion of the year

are pitchers who are close to the end of their contract, and pitchers teams know they cannot hold onto. See Lee in 2009 and again in 2010, the Indians knew they wouldn’t compete in 2010 and would get the most value for Lee before July 31, 2009.

Again look at Lee in Seattle, he was traded because he was in the final year of his deal, the Mariners sucked, and they knew they couldn’t afford to keep him.

Even when Lee was dealt before 2010, he was a part of a bigger deal with landed Halliday in Philly.

C.C. Sabathia in 2008.

There are a few times when this isn’t true, but by and large players like Karshew just aren’t dealt, he is under team control through 2014, so he is a cheap ace with 3 more years of cost control, that is probably one of the most valuable commodities in baseball, and it is hard to get anything in return that equals that.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I said, I didn't know anything about his contract.

So I guess that means we end up with Eric Milton or Milton Bradley or Brad Pitt.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem is

there don’t seem to be any great pitchers close to free agency this year.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So we intend to upgrade?

That’s kind of the point. Dream big (Kershaw) or stick with what we have and see if we can’t get them to pitch a little better.

I don’t think the Reds are going to improve by making a trade for a pitcher. And I am really on board with saying I don’t want to go dealing prospects for a left fielder. That position is too easy to fix inside the farm.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying you shouldn't want Kershaw or Walt shouldnt' want Kershaw

Walt should call about every top pitcher who’s contract the Reds can afford. But the chances are the other GM will say let me get back to you on that, and never get back to him on that.

I would love Kershaw, he would be a real impact pitcher, but I just don’t think it is going to happen.

I also don’t think they should go out an add another 3rd or 4th starter, they need somebody to complement Cueto not Arroyo.

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need a lefty who can give us 7

Cueto, Leake, maybe Willis now, who knows? I need to see Bronson pitch once or twice more before I give up on him, or lose confidence. LeCure is doing more for me than the rest of this flock.
Bailey? What gives?

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite part of RR (sometimes)

is when Yossi and john argue.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 14, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is only arguing when he is wrong.

I won’t say how often that occurs.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I admit

watching Votto throw to Kershaw in the All-Star game made me dream a bit. Kershaw out there with Cueto would be formidable stuff

by Red_Poodle on Jul 14, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

just because you are an author of erotica

doesn’t make you the expert on 3-ways!

Nothing succeeds like failure.

by Yossarian22 on Jul 14, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ha, so much you think you know about that.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Male-based erotica, (also known as porn)

The “3-way” means balling two women at the same time.

With female-based erotica, a lot of other scenarios apply, but when in doubt, refer to the first reference.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 14, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the word "balling" as slang for sex

Richard Brautigan did it quite often

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Balling"

in the Little Richard song “Good Golly Miss Molly,” (she sho likes ta ball) … the term was about dancing. The term took on new meaning in the late 60s.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're a little bit crazy if you think CMM is our best trade chip.

He’s only our best trade chip for a contending team, which wouldn’t be at all likely to deal a good SP in the middle of a pennant race.

And LA ain’t dealing Kershaw. He doesn’t even hit arbitration until next year, so even if they did want to deal him, he’d cost way more than our current pipe-dream Jimenez.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Jul 15, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

We aren't getting a top starting pitcher anyhow!

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remain cautiously optimistic

If we are no farther out by the trade deadline, I’ll drop the caution.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Jul 15, 2011 12:12 AM EDT reply actions  

I just noticed that the Crew lost

and our trade fantasy Ubaldo pitched pretty well

by Red_Poodle on Jul 15, 2011 2:18 AM EDT reply actions  

that means the Cards are back on sole possession of first place

Reds still 4 games back.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 15, 2011 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

one thing that leads to me remaining optimistic

is that Charlie’s points are mostly quantifiable, and Nukkah’s are mostly assumptions. I suppose I tend to lean more towards the “stats will regress to the norm” camp. But well done, the both of ye

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 8:09 AM EDT reply actions  

The only thing with regressing to the norm is it means the team is more likely to play normally, or get normal results

But since they’ve been getting bad results for a full half season now, they would have to get very favorable results for the second half to finish at what would have normally been expected. And exceptionally favorable results seem unlikely to me, especially with the team as presently constituted.

by Brendanukkah on Jul 15, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, that part I can understand

some seasons are just cursed

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Jul 15, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let's play ... WWWD?

What Would Walt Do?

1. It seems pretty clear that moving farther into post-season than last year would be pretty difficult, meaning … even if we win a division, the Phils are probably too legit to beat.
2. Winning the NL-C is still not only do-able, but more than possible.

Meaning … to try to tool this team to do much better this year than first in the NL-C would be folly. It just isn’t worth the paperwork. If you can make a deal that improves the team for next year, fine … so it’s a question of whether we panic (react) in a way that helps win the NL-C, or we find parts that help for the future.

There is no reason to re-work this team to win the NL-C. We can win it with what we have, just if they play better. Unless we can get two guys equal to Cliff Lee and Matt Kemp and Hanley in his prime, we’re still going to finish second to the Philistines.

So, WWWD? I would say that if I were in the front office, I would maybe make a minor trade just to get one done. Beyond that, he isn’t as much a fan as he is a GM.

How dare you libel a perfectly nice creature like the Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog by comparing it to a Frenchman.

by johnu1 on Jul 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's Horst-talk

seriously? he’s getting called up? I missed that.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 15, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be Horst talk......lol but

I read it on twitter….#Reds…now some mention of Arredondo having some stifness so maybe if true it’s much ado about nothing.

by Josiah on Jul 15, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

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