Possible Trade Target: Michael Pineda???

Internet baseball guy Dave Cameron suggests the Mariners should take an unorthodox approach to this year's trade deadline and trade their rookie phenom pitcher Michael Pineda. He mentions the Reds as a perfect trade partner, as they are stacked with position prospects but thin on aces.

I seriously doubt the Mariners would ever think of trading the Untradeable, but the idea certainly does blow my hair back.

11 months ago Charlie Scrabbles 36 comments 0 recs |

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Yes please

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Jul 1, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions

Oh, forgot to mention the package he proposes:

A team like the Reds, who have a lot of rotation depth but lack a true ace, would almost certainly be pounding down Jack Zduriencik’s door if they knew Pineda might be available. The Reds have an excess prospect at nearly every position the Mariners have a massive hole, and could offer something like a package built around a switch-hitting catcher with power (Yasmani Grandal), a line-drive hitting first baseman who might be able to play left field or could DH (Yonder Alonso), a third baseman with legitimate power (Todd Frazier), and throw in a decent back-end starter (Travis Wood) to help the M’s compensate for losing a member of their rotation.

I would do that a million times out of a million.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 1, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

Holy crap

Grandal, Yonder, Wood & Frazier for Pineda? That’d have to need more on our side, I’d wager. Perhaps if you switch Meso in for Yonder. (Which may break my heart a bit)

by RedStalk on Jul 1, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Buyer beware on pitching

Pineda’s a terrific pitcher, but not a terrific fit for our ballpark. Extreme flyballer with 30% fly balls thus far. Wasn’t as extreme in the minors, but still very much a fly ball guy. He’d be a great addition to the club, but don’t go crazy here. And, as Dave emphasizes, pitchers break.

I think the package Dave proposes is fair. Wood’s got a 4.2ish xFIP in almost 200 IP, and would do very well at Safeco. He’s a quality part of the package. Alonso and Frazier are probably mlb average regulars at best. Grandal looks like a very solid bet to be at least average, with 3-4 annual WAR as a possibility.

I think adding Mesoraco would be way overkill. Frankly, I think Mesoraco for Pineda straight up is fair, but I’d prefer the Reds do something like this.
-j

I write at:
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by JinAZ on Jul 1, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think I'd be okay trading both of our top catching prospects for a guy who won't contribute much in the playoffs this year or probably next (as Geki pointed out below.)

"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428

by sexsalad on Jul 1, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

This would never, ever happen.

I want a real trade to talk about, darnit!

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.

by chesirecat on Jul 1, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions

you remember the old Pepsi commercial for Diet Pepsi?

When it’s like “I’m not really Halle Berry. I’m Barry Bostwick.”

That’s what I feel about this. “You want to talk Pineda? How about Doug Fister?”

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Jul 1, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Doug Fister would be an appropriate pickup for this year's Reds.

Try as I might, I can’t get rid of the malaise that’s settled over this season

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come.

by chesirecat on Jul 1, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

with Bedard down now I find it really hard to believe the M's would trade

one of their starters

Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive

by BigStein on Jul 1, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not on the Pineda bandwagon yet

49.4% Fly Ball + GABP = DOES NOT WANT

Follow me on Twitter: @DTD_Clayton | Editor for Down the Drive

by BigStein on Jul 1, 2011 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

oops, beat me to it.

I still want, I just don’t go nuts.

I write at:
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by JinAZ on Jul 1, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I think for the package proposed

I’m all over it. Yonder (and to a lesser extent) Frazier have no real place on this team. They are most valuable as trade chips anyway, so I want to get the best-possible return on them. I don’t think you would a better return than Pineda. This is a trade that has absolutely zero negative effect on the team this year and next, and the difference between Pineda and Wood+Grandal over the next six is quite possibly minimal.

That said, I’d do my best to give them Francisco instead of Frazier :)

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed.

"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige

by PeteyHendrix on Jul 1, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

i think you and JinAZ are reading too much into the fly ball rate

Pineda is a horse. So he might give up a bunch of solo shots?

by Brian B on Jul 1, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Didn't Cameron make some remarks about Pineda before the season?

He was weirdly hostile to him, if I remember right

Fuck it, we'll do it live.

by DTFH91 on Jul 1, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

I'm fairly certain Dave Cameron is weirdly hostile towards everything and everyone.

He’s an insufferably insufferable douchenozzle in regards to, well, everyone and everything.

by Geki on Jul 1, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

"weirdly hostile towards everything and everyone"

Sounds like someone else we all know and know and love! [/ducks]

by Brian B on Jul 1, 2011 5:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Yeah, but I don't have like three blogs and a cult of morons worshipping the ground I type on.

by Geki on Jul 1, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

He doesn't like his change-up

And was very confident that the lack of effective change-up would render him incapable of getting lefties out.

Hasn’t worked out that way for Pineda or Justin Masterson, actually, who has been another similar target of Cameron’s. I think there’s something to the change-up thing, but it’s also the case that past work has shown that splits are difficult to assess for a reason: most pitchers (and hitters) have reasonably similar splits, and extreme ones are often noise more than reality until you get a huge sample to work with.

I write at:
RotoGraphs | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Jul 1, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

The teams match up well, but Pineda is unlikely to be able to contribute down the stretch because of his innings-limit and he has an extensive injury history. I’m not too worried about his flyball tendencies as he has exceptional stuff and control, nor am I overwhelmingly concerned about what we’d be giving up, I just can’t see either team considering the move.

by Geki on Jul 1, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

That's a good point

As unlikely as the trade is, it makes more sense in the off-season. Pineda’s pitch limits probably rule him out from an extended playoff run, and that would be the best reason to go out and get a pitcher. Let’s call them in November though and see what they say.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 1, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Well said

The only pitcher rumor I’ve heard that wasn’t just speculation has been Kuroda.

"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 1, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

It’s only July 1st, so the market hasn’t really developed yet. I think now that the calendar has flipped the GMs will get off their golf courses and get on the phones.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 1, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

It could be a weirdly quiet trade season

If more teams don’t start sucking.

Usually by now, just about everyone knows if they’re buying or selling.

Parity is hurting our chances of trading for a difference maker.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Jul 1, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

How come we don't hear more about the Cubs being sellers?

I’d be interested in Garza

by kcgard2 on Jul 2, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

I like Kuroda lots.

I write at:
RotoGraphs | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds

by JinAZ on Jul 1, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't like the idea of moving Fraizer

He’s from my hometown and I’m the only Reds fan I know, so I love cheering for the guy.

by sd377 on Jul 1, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions

I've at times thought the same thing about Votto

that we may be able to get a frontline starter for Votto.

maybe I’m just a little pessimistic that we’ll keep him long term, but I’ve thought if we could get a front-line starter, putting Alonso at 1st base, though a big decline from Votto, could well be offset by the improvement in our starting rotation.

Just like the Pineda trade would be for Seatte (those comments are pretty negative there!), that would be a tough pill to swallow for us. It would probably be a suppository.

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jul 1, 2011 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

if the Reds can't keep him

they should trade him. Though Poodle will have a cow.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jul 1, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

just probably not mid-season

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jul 1, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

There isn't a starter in baseball I would trade for Votto right now

if ti looks like we aren’t going to be able to resign him once he’s closer to free agency, then I might think about it.

by pack_fan on Jul 1, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

the best way to keep him

is to surround him with talent and have success in the postseason.

People will think real hard about walking away from a winning team, especially if they don’t like the big city that comes with a bigger team.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Jul 2, 2011 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions