Draft Day (2011 MLB Draft Thread)
Today is the day, the long-awaited time when we find out if the Reds will draft Tyler Anderson, Sean Gilmartin, Kolten Wong, Robert Stephenson or some other player we might or might not have profiled here in the last three weeks.
The Draft kicks off at 7 p.m. with the first round. Rounds 2 through 30 take place beginning at noon tomorrow. Rounds 31 through 50 begin at noon on Wednesday. I plan to be here for each and every pick, providing some analysis. On Thursday, I plan a wrapup of the draft with more information and comments on each player the Reds select.
In the meantime, let's use this for today's discussion thread. I'll post updates throughout the day as various final mock drafts are revealed. Feel free to add any rumors, information and comments you like.
Uncertainty abounds when you pick 27th. Until the last few hours, we weren't even sure who was going to Pittsburgh at No. 1. Jonathan Mayo reports the Pirates have settled on UCLA RHP Gerrit Cole over Rice 3B Anthony Rendon and Virginia LHP Danny Hultzen.
The Reds are rumored to be enamored with college LHPs. Florida State's Sean Gilmartin is the hot rumor of the moment, replacing Oregon State's Tyler Anderson, whom Cincinnati was thought to be targeting just two days ago. Kent State's Andrew Chafin and Oregon State's Josh Osich are other southpaw college hurlers who might be in the mix. I'll go ahead and profile Gilmartin in this post so that we have a heads up of what he looks like.
Enjoy the day, ladies, gentlemen and Maddie. Let the fun begin.
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Take
Henry Owens First.
Wong seems a safe pick too. That will piss off dat dude.
Only pick I saw was Bos taking Owens...
All of a sudden I want him.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs.
by DocRam on Jun 6, 2011 10:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Draft: Florida State LHP Sean Gilmartin.
Gilmartin followed a fantastic freshman season with a rough sophomore campaign then a stellar junior year.
A native of Moorpark, Calif., Gilmartin (6-foot-2, 192 pounds) has been the Seminoles No. 1 starter the last three seasons. Athletic, he also has played the OF and 1B. Gilmartin is a strong runner.
This season, Gilmartin is 12-1 with a 1.83 ERA. In 113 1/3 IP, he has allowed 86 hits, struck out 122 and walked 30. Gilmartin has allowed 14 doubles and three triples as foes batted .208.
In 2010, Gilmartin struggled, going 9-8 with a 5.24 ERA for FSU and was lit up for 11 hits in six IP against top-ranked Virginia. With Team USA, he was 2-1 with a 4.35 ERA. As a freshman All-American, Gilmartin was 12-3 with a 3.49 ERA. In 98 IP, he allowed 81 hits, 14 home runs and struck out 83 while walking 37.
Gilmartin (21) features a compact windup and gets good extension in a smooth, easy delivery. He has four pitches, but has essentially scrapped his curve for a vastly improved slider. His changeup is a plus pitch. Gilmartin pitches off a fastball that is in the 88 to 91 m.p.h range, but dips to 86 at times.
A 31st-round selection of the Padres out of high school, Gilmartin entered this season as a back-of-the-second round talent. He rapidly has climbed the charts, however, and draws comparisons to fomer Vanderbilt hurler Mike Minor, the seventh overall pick in the 2009 draft and a current Atlanta Brave.
Gilmartin locates well, understands pitching and is eager to learn. He mixes his offerings and has a feel for pitching. Gilmartin is regarded as one of the Draft’s safer picks. Atlanta and Minnesota are rumored to be very interested in him.
Gilmartin is homer prone, giving up 34 in three seasons but just five this year. Of course, Florida State’s ballbark is known for giving up the long ball.
A Sports Management major, Baseball America ranks Gilmartin the No. 48 player in the draft.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for this.
I think I’d still rather have Anderson, but Frankie Pilliere insists these two are very, very similar in quality.
He says he saw them pitch back-to-back for Team USA and didn’t find much to distinguish them. Again, Anderson has more velo but he liked Gilmartin’s secondary stuff more.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
It's a tough call.
Some scouts prefer Anderson. Some Osich. Gilmartin has made a push. Even Chafin has his admirers. In Gilmartin’s regional opener with Alabama, he went 7 innings, gave up 12 hits, struck out 6 and walked two in a 9-5 victory.
It will be interesting. HS LHP Henry Owens even could work his way into the mix. Then there’s the wildcard of Vanderbilt’s Grayson Garvin. I still like Texas HS SS Trevor Story an awful lot.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Osich left his regional start against Georgia
in the second inning. His coach said Osich has been “stiff and sore” of late.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Sickels just wrote that Gilmartin
isn’t much different from Anderson.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I'm hearing/reading too
Gilmartin’s numbers are nasty this year, and I think his competition has been tougher than Anderson’s.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
Having said that, I like Anderson's size and velo better.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
I'm warming a bit to him.
Strong, strong numbers, except for the career home run rate. I like his pitchability. The interviews I’ve read indicate he knows how to pitch. I still might like Trevor Story at 27 better than anyone at this point.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I always will like a pitcher with a strong change-up
and I guess you couldn’t fault the Reds for going safe at the 27 slot. I still would like them to take someone with #1 type upside, but I can’t fault them for going after a high floor guy.
I doubt there will be many #1 type upside pitchers that fall to the 27th pick
Those guys generally get picked earlier.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 6, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless it's a HS guy
Robert Stephenson seems to have #1 upside (95 mph heater, potential for 3 plus pitches) but he’s also a lot, lot less safe of a pick.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
And he would take a very long time to get here.
I mean, I’m okay waiting five or six years if he does become an ace, but a guy right out of HS isn’t going to add to the depth that’s been dwindling down any time soon and he still might end up sucking in the end.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Seems like a reach
I’m looking forward to see which players may slip to 25, ones we don’t expect to be there.
thats what I'm wondering too
see who is available at that slot, could be a couple interesting names that fall
Baseball America's 6/3 mock
Has Hulzen going first, Gerrit Cole going fifth to KC.
Anderson going 16 to Dodgers.
UK monster RHP Alex Meyer 23 to the Nats. Wong 24th to Rays. Stephenson to the Reds and my main brah Henry Owens going 32nd.
A review of some mock drafts show
Jonathan Mayo and Keith Law predicting the Reds will take Oregon LHP Tyler Anderson. Baseball America’s experts draft has them selecting Miami Dade JC OF Brian Goodwin. BA’s regular mock has Cincinnatin taking Alhambra HS RHP Robert Stephenson. John Sickels has the Reds drafting Kent State LHP Andrew Chafin.
Those are a few days old and some will be updated today.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
where's Anthony Rendon predicted to end up?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Late rumors have Pittsburgh and Seattle passing on him,
leaving Arizona a shot at him at No. 3. If the Pirates and Mariners passed, that raises a red flag as to what the medical reports indicated. Earlier this week, one club said their doctors gave him a yellow light — neither red nor green.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
if it's the shoulder
Uh, boy. Shoulder injuries are big trouble for baseball players.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
The shoulder is the main concern.
I still think Seattle will take him, though. At worst, he’s likely a thumper at second base. Word is that if the medical reports scare away everyone above them, the Cubs still will pounce on Rendon at No. 9.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
BA's final mock is out and has the Reds taking
Stephenson. He figures Anderson, Wong and Michael will be gone. He has Story going one pick later, Gilmartin at 30 to the Twins and Owens 31st to Tampa Bay.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Jonathan Mayo's final mock is out and he has the Reds taking
Stanford LHP Chris Reed, who is a reliever that many teams expect to be a starter. Mayo says Gilmartin and Chafin could be in the mix.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions
Here's a quick look at Reed:
A 6-foot-4, 190-pound closer, Reed has only started one game in a college career that has seen him throw fewer than 70 innings. Projected as a sandwich rounder, Reed also has been mentioned as high as No. 11 in the first round.
A big, strong lefty, Reed’s fastball sits 88 to 91, but has hit 96. His slider is potentially plus and his change is above average. Reed’s breaking stuff is inconsistent. He is athletic, though, and many scouts want to try him as a starter.
He has gone 6-2 with a 2.45 ERA and six saves. In 45 innings, he has allowed 33 hits, walked 13 and struck out 47.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds projectable
have to like the height and him hitting 96, concerned about his weight for a college kid. Sounds like an interesting pick.
I'm not a huge fan of taking college closers and trying to have them start
So much can go wrong in the transition.
For example, what if his FB sits at 86-89 as a starter?
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
I'm with you.
I don’t like taking relievers of any kind in the first round. So much can go wrong with a college bullpen arm being converted to starting.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 4:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein at Baseball Prospectus final mock is out
and he has the Reds taking Tyler Anderson.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
I must ask you Turtle
I saw this feature last year and it was amazing. How are you so interested in the draft? Did you used to be involved in this process or what? I love it!
BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I'm a former sports writer who covered
the Reds and a minor league affiliate for the Cubs. I got interested in the draft in the 90s when the Cubs picks were stocking the team I covered. I talked a lot with their front office people back then and it piqued my interest.
I ran across a lot of scouts during my writing days and thoroughly enjoyed picking their brains. It was a lot of fun for me.
I appreciate the kind comments!
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
How long between picks? What time are we thinking the Reds will go?
"The Reds have started 2011 the way they ended 2010!"
5 minutes in first round.
Probably after 9 for the Reds.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 5:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Five minutes between picks.
Sometime after 9 for the Reds.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
A hard-throwing Cuban with trouble finding the strike zone, anyone?
From Baseball America’s Draft Blog:
It’s not often a player emerges as a pop-up candidate to go in the first round the day of the draft—especially in a year with this kind of depth—but such is the case this year with Onelkis Garcia Speck, a lefthander who defected from Cuba. Garcia could go as highly as the back half of the first round.
Details on Garcia are fuzzy, but Baseball America has learned that he throws in the 92-95 mph range with an above-average curveball. An article (in Spanish) in The New Herald by Jorge Ebro from 2008 said Garcia Speck was 20 years old, which would make him 23 this year.
According to one source, Garcia pitched three seasons with Guantanamo, going 12-12, 4.73 over 205 innings. In 46 games (45 starts), he struck out 195 but walked 128. His last season was 2009-10, when he went 5-6, 3.40.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 6:23 PM EDT reply actions
Details sound sketchy on his eligibility.
His agent still maintains that he’s a free agent.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Here's an update.
According to multiple international directors, Major League Baseball sent teams a memo on Saturday at 10 p.m. E.T. to inform them that Garcia Speck is eligible for the draft. Garcia, who was also reported as a 21-year-old who is 6-foot-3, 220 pounds, is represented by Los Angeles-based agent Gus Dominguez, who scouts said had scheduled a workout for Garcia Speck to be seen on Saturday, June 11 at Pierce Junior College.
Multiple international directors expressed frustration that MLB would declare a Cuban defector draft-eligible on such short notice, suggesting that the player likely already has a deal in place with a team. Others added that they would be elated if another team used a high draft pick on Garcia Speck, who struggled with his control in Cuba.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
BA now reports that Speck IS NOT eligible for the draft.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh: Gerrit Cole, RHP, UCLA
I don’t know that I would’ve. If Rendon’s shoulder is OK, I might have gone that route.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:11 PM EDT reply actions
Pittsburgh is quietly loading up on young talent after trading away all their good players
a couple of years ago.
BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Seattle: Danny Hultzen, LHP, Virginia.Wow
Wow! Renden’s medical reports must be scary.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
I am surprised by this one
Hultzen has the numbers but from what I heard there are guys with better stuff than him available up top. Have to wonder where Rendon falls now, you’re right, medicals must not have been good.
Arizona: Trevor Bauer, RHP, UCLA.
I like this guy a lot.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:23 PM EDT reply actions
Baltimore: Dylan Bundy, RHP, Owasso HS.
Fantastic arm. The Orioles really like him.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:31 PM EDT reply actions
Bundy's older brother, Bobby, is in the O's system
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Jun 6, 2011 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
His other brother Ted
is in a different system.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
maybe that's where the Devil part left the Rays.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Kansas City: Bubba Starling, CF, Gardner-Edgerton HS.
The Royals take the local bat and he’s a very, very good one. Excellent pick.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:35 PM EDT reply actions
all those rumors about them being after college pitching turned out to be false
Starling made sense from the start
Washington: Anthony Rendon, 3B, Rice.
There he goes. Even with Ryan Zimmerman, a healthy Rendon is a great pick. He can play second base if need be. If the shoulder is healthy, the Nats just got the Draft’s top player for the third consecutive year.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:39 PM EDT reply actions
Absolutely.
They have to be thrilled. If the shoulder is ok.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Arizona: Archie Bradley, RHP, Broken Arrow HS.
Bauer and Bradley make for a potent pair in a future Diamondbacks rotation. Bradley won’t come cheaply, though, and this is an unprotected compensation pick. The Snakes will have to pony up to sign Bradley away from playing quarterback and baseball at Oklahoma.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
My pick for the Reds was Oregon LHP Tyler Anderson.
He might not be available, though, so I think I’d go with Texas HS SS Trevor Story.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Cleveland: Francisco Lindor, SS, Monteverde HS.
Talented young player. Smooth in the field. Gap power.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:55 PM EDT reply actions
There was talk for a while that this kid coould have
gone 1-1. Some compare him favorably to Omar Vizquel.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be. There's a legitimate chance he outgrows SS
and moves to third.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago Cubs: Javier Baez, SS, Arlington Country Day HS.
The draft’s other premier shortstop. Super quick bat with power. Not as adept in the field as Lindor. Makeup concerns.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 7:57 PM EDT reply actions
You're my favorite, Turtle. I wish it was the MLB Draft every day.
The Reds would get better forever and you’d always be around!
Ha! Thank you!
It’d be a lot of fun for me, too! I love the Draft!
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yer welcome.
Just make sure the Reds get the next Bryce Harper and Strasburg. I can’t believe the Nats got Rendon too. If they keep that team together for 5 years (Rendon, Harper, Espinosa, Zimmerman, Strasberg, the other Zimmerman, etc) they could be pretty nifty.
That organization has so much potential.
If their fans are patient just a little longer, they could have something special.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah dude, it's crazy.
Imagine if they can, as B. Posey hypothesized, sign Prince Fielder or some such.
San Diego: Cory Spangenberg, 3B, Indian River JC.
Just as predicted, the Padres go with the juco bat. Terrific pure swing and 70 speed on the 20-80 scale. Disciplined guy. Probably moves to 2B.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:03 PM EDT reply actions
Could even move to CF.
I don’t think he has the power to remain at 3B. Speedy athlete who fits the SD profile.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
For those not watching the game, Drew Stubbs just went opposite field for a back-to-back-games homerun.
Reds lead!
I have three draft threads open, plus another SBnation page I might need later
the draft on my laptop and the reds game in a small window in the corner. Media overload.
Atta boy!
Sounds like me. Throw in the iphone, too, just in case the computer goes wacky.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Houston: George Spinger, CF, Connecticut.
Well, well, well! The Astros take a super athlete who was a top-five pick before the season. Tremendous upside. Drew Stubbs comps. I like this pick for Houston.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:07 PM EDT reply actions
Plus power, speed and arm.
Will he hit enough? If he does, he could remind Astros fans of Cesar Cedeno.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
good pick for the astros
I like it better than if they took jungmann whom was the popular pick for them
They'll see Jungmann pitching against them,
it appears.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Milwaukee: Taylor Jungmann, RHP, Texas.
This guy had an 0.95 ERA in the regular season. Ace of Texas’ staff for three years. Big-game guy. Has some effort to his delivery and his breaking stuff still needs to improve, but a good pitcher.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:14 PM EDT reply actions
Those Texas arms have been pretty great.
I have Big 12 bias, but I think Jungmann will surprise some people.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I said, Jungmann! There's a place you can go!
Milwaukee, evidently.
by Brendanukkah on Jun 7, 2011 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
New York Mets: Brandon Nimmo, CF, East HS.
The Wyoming kid reportedly has an asking price of $3 million. The Mets said they’d spend, despite their financial troubles. The kid can hit, although Wyoming has no high school baseball.
He’s the first player we previewed as a possible Reds pick to be selected. He rose quickly up the board.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:19 PM EDT reply actions
gambling on his upside
but there are guys I like better than him still on the board. Wondering now if the Reds are going to have a high-upside pitcher available with so many bats going off the board.
How many picks till they pick and how many good arms left?
We desperately need a high-upside pitcher. Boxy has been good, but he’s a RP apparently. Chapman apparently isn’t starting. Homer can’t stay healthy. Cueto’s peripherals get worse every year. Volquez is yippy. Wood is inconsistent now that the league has seen him (or unlucky). Leake could still be good, I guess, but gets very hittable at times and is a C-level starter.
the rest of our guys I forget about because their seasons haven't started yet
But I guess there are a couple of decent prospects in the low minors
anyone they get will take a number of years in the minors for them to make it to the big club
but I still want them to take an upside guy simply because the need for one now is enough to make me think the need for one is going to be high eventually too.
Pick 15 is coming up.
The Reds pick 27th.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be.
Jed Bradley, Daniel Norris, Sonny Gray, Taylor Guerrieri, Matt Barnes, Jose Fernandez and Alex Meyer remain on the board. I bet we see a run on pitchers.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Nimmo's America Legion season goes right up to
mid-August. He’ll likely be one of those deadline signings. If he doesn’t reach a deal, he’ll go to Arkansas.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Florida: Jose Fernandez, RHP, Alonso HS.
The Marlins go across the state to Tampa to get this guy. The kid has three potential plus pitches. Cuban-born, his age has been questioned, but he has terrific stuff.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:25 PM EDT reply actions
Milwaukee: Jed Bradley, LHP, Georgia Tech.
Well, the Brewers are restocking on college pitching. Bradley has scuffled a bit this season, particularly down the stretch, but has potential for three above average pitches.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions
LA Dodgers: Chris Reed, LHP, Stanford.
The Dodgers take a closer who has thrown fewer than 70 innings. Many scouts think he can start because of his three-pitch mix. LA wasn’t going for a more expensive option with their financial struggles. I don’t like the pick from a talent standpoint.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:35 PM EDT reply actions
Reed has strong stuff, but is inconsistent.
He throws hard, has a sometimes excellent slider and potential for an above average change.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
LA Angels: C.J. Cron, 1B, Utah.
The kid can hit. He went .444/.522/.829 with 15 home runs this season. Cron can hit for power and average. This is a good pick for Anaheim. His raw power grades as an 80. Defensively, he has questions, but with the DH that won’t matter. As well as Cron hits, his defensive shortcomings coould be overlooked anyway. Big, big bat.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:41 PM EDT reply actions
Still five highly touted pitchers on the board.
Will they last nine more picks?
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:43 PM EDT reply actions
And that doesn't include Anderson, Gilmartin
Osich and a few others.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Jose Fernandez was the other one.
He came off the board, though.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd take Guerrieri.
Some makeup questions, but a heck of an arm.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oakland: Sonny Gray, RHP, Vanderbilt.
The A’s get a flamethrower. Gray touches 97 and sits in the mid-90s. He also features a power curve. Gray’s change is a distant third pitch. Some envision him as a premier closer, but he’ll get every opportunity to start.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:47 PM EDT reply actions
Boston: Matt Barnes, RHP, Connecticut.
The Red Sox go local. Barnes throws heat and maintains his velocity. His secondary offerings need work, but show potential. He got lit up in the post-seasoon, but has a relatively fresh, loose arm.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:51 PM EDT reply actions
Norris is from Science Hill HS in Johnson City, Tenn.
Great athlete. He’s a QB with a great arm. He reaches 96, but is better from 89-93. His curve and change also are potential plus pitches. His change featuures excellent arm action for a high schooler, although his breaking stuff is inconsistent. He’s a Clemson signee and won’t come cheap. I’d love to have him.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Still available after 60 picks.
I’ve heard he wants $4 million to sign.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Colorado: Tyler Anderson, LHP, Oregon.
Another player we thought might get to the Reds is off the board. Anderson was my pick, if he dropped that far and no higher upside guys were available. Good pick. He’s likely to move quickly and has the upside of a No. 3 starter.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 8:59 PM EDT reply actions
Norris
Would love to have him or Henry Owens – think it’s time for the Reds to take a shot at a high-upside HS, preferaby a lefty
It's appearing more and more as if they'll get the chance.
I guess they could go Kolten Wong or Levi Michael and take the MIF route, but I like the HS arms still on the board.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto: Tyler Beede, RHP, Lawrence Academy.
Back-to-back Tylers. Another guy we profiled. He won’t be an easy sign, as he has a Vanderbilt scholarship and told teams he’d prefer to head to college. He’s a strong-armed pitcher with a fresh arm and has advanced pitchability for his age. Intellignet kid.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:04 PM EDT reply actions
Yes. I think he went a bit high.
Toronto must be confident it can get a deal done.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
St. Louis: Kolten Wong, 2B, Hawaii.
Wong comes off the board. He’s one of the draft’s better pure hitters. Wong likely can move quickly to the majors and be the kind of pest the Cardinals often have had — Eckstein anyone? Good, solid pick.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:08 PM EDT reply actions
its funny
I would have liked him a lot if he were picked by the Reds, but now all the sudden I hate him.
Ha! I suspect a lot of Reds fans will hold that opinion!
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Washington: Alex Meyer, RHP, Kentucky.
The Nats coveted Meyer and hoped he’d fall this far. At 6-foot-9, 220 and the ability to throw 96, he’s an intimidating presence. His slider has potential. Meyer transitioned from thrower to pitcher this season. He’s far from a finished product, but offers big-time potential. Another strong cog in a rapidly improving organization.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:15 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Taylor Guerrieri, RHP, Spring Valley HS.
Big arm. He has a power arm and plenty of room to develop. He throws 98 — consistently 96 — and has a power curve. Command is a question, as is makeup. Signing him will be difficult. He’s a South Carolina recruit.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:20 PM EDT reply actions
Questionable makeup? Is that attitude concerns?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Yes. It can mean varying things.
Usually refers to off-field incidents or being difficult to coach. This guy is on his second high school because of those concerns.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
cool, thanks
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Haven't the Rays squirreled away mountains of money to sign all these picks?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
They have reportedly been saving for this draft
but they aren’t a big market, so I’m not sure how much it will be
As well-run as the Rays are, I'd think they would know exactly what they're doing with these picks
This is a chance to stay stacked for years to come, and I don’t think Friedman et al are going to blow this
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
I don't either
I figured one of their first selections would be expensive, with maybe one more expensive guy mixed in then a bunch of signable but good picks.
My tweet about this thread just showed up on the MLB.com draft tracker
I guess all you have to do is throw an #MLBDraft tag in there.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jun 6, 2011 9:22 PM EDT reply actions
San Diego: Joe Ross, RHP, Bishop O'Dowd HS.
Joe’s brother Tyson is in the Oakland organization. Joe Ross is athletic and offers a strong three-pitch package. He’s a smart kid and will be difficult to sign away from UCLA.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:26 PM EDT reply actions
I love this tweet from Keith Law:
keithlaw
Means he lacks tools. RT @jryager: @keithlaw MLB guys kept saying Kolton Wong is a “winner”. what the hell does that mean?
Goodness.
It falls in line with “ballplayer” and “plays the game the right way.” Yeah, I know what they’re getting at, but it does’;t tell me much about the kids strengths and weaknesses.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston: Blake Swihart, C, Cleveland HS.
Swihart features a strong bat and can stick behind the plate. His competition wasn’t the best, but he shows solid power and hitting potential.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:31 PM EDT reply actions
I'd have gone Stephenson here.
I was afraid they go Levi Michael, SS, North Carolina. Good pick with the big HS arm.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the draft on TV?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
mlb.com/live
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
decent pick
Will be fun to see how stephenson, gilmartin and owens fare in five years.
Im just glad the bosox selected the hs c immediately before the reds pick.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Jun 6, 2011 9:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
Norris is going to cost a pretty penny to buy out of Clemson.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
hey now, my alma mater!
No problem, fuckweasel! - jch24
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jun 6, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
HS pitcher, why?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
massive risk?
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
too great a cost in my opinion
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
I understand that.
Many scouts, thouogh think Stephenson will have three plus-pitches. That suggests a front of the rotation guy if he makes it. I like the gamble.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take your word on this
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jun 6, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
College arms no longer hold the same advantage over HS arms in terms of total production, as was found by Bill James in the ’80’s and described in Moneyball. The high draft bonuses have convinced more elite athletes to sign out of high school (and stay in baseball, as opposed to going to some other sport). As a result, you do tend to see a lot of elite players signing out of high school these days.
So, more risk? Absolutely. Measurably more upside? Absolutely.
There is a philosophy that you spend your first round pick drafting for upside, because the truly elite players are the guys that are almost impossible to pick up via free agency or trade. I think the risk is still pretty relevant, but at this point in the draft, there’s not many safer options who have frontline starter upside. I’m ok with this.
-j
I write at:
RotoGraphs | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
Oh, thanks for the updated information.
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
by Grahamophone on Jun 6, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Reds: Robert Stephenson, RHP, Alhambra HS.
I like it!
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Just in case someone missed it (like me)
Here’s TT’s piece on Stephenson:
http://www.redreporter.com/2011/5/31/2198746/the-draft-alhambra-hs-rhp-robert-stephenson
I write at:
RotoGraphs | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
Thank you, sir.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So, plus back-to-back no-hitter skill?
I write at:
RotoGraphs | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
I like it.
Give me an alphabet soup stat for that!
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
How likely is it that he'll go to UW?
I guess that’s kinda hard to know.
"OVERCHARGE, v. To ask a higher price than you can get." -Ambrose Bierce
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jun 6, 2011 9:43 PM EDT reply actions
He's signable.
He’ll not be cheap, but won’t be ridiculous, either.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Another factor in signability is the upcoming CBA
If there’s a hard slotting system implemented, elite draftees won’t be getting the same kind of signing bonuses. So if Bob Steve balks at signing now, he’s facing not only the risk of getting hurt or doing poorly in college, but also a lower payout even if he succeeds. Since the Reds have done a good job lately at getting their draftees signed, I have faith that they’ll get this one done as well.
More on Stephenson
He went 7-2 with a 1.33 ERA this season. Long, loose and projectable, Stephenson is a University of Wzashington signee, but is considered among the more signable HS hurlers. In 64 innings, he struck out 132 and walked 23.
He throws 93 to 97 and can pitch up in the zone. A series of minor flaws in his delivery appear easily correctable. He features a strong curve and mixes in a developing change. Very intelligent, Stephenson started the Aflac East-West All-Star game. Baseball America ranked him 24th overall.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
We mentioned makeup earlier.
Stephenson is a high-character kid. He’s the star of his team and still sweeps the dugout without being told, is strong academically and is eager to learn. He’s coachable. Stephenson’s athleticism bodes well for his development. BA says it’s unlikely he opts for college.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good. I like the pick.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta: Sean Gilmartin, LHP, Florida State.
Gilmartin draws Mike Minor comps. He fits the Braves well. I wonder if they held their breath while the Reds decided who to take?
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:49 PM EDT reply actions
San Francisco: Joe Panik, SS, St. John's.
Big surprise, here. Solid bat and he’s a guy scouts call “a ballplayer.” He “plays the game the right way.” He’s fundamentally sound, but likely will be an offensive-minded 2B.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:58 PM EDT reply actions
Minnesota: Levi Michael, SS, North Carolina.
The Twins take the highest-rated college shortstop in the draft.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 9:59 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Mikie Mahtook, OF, LSU.
A nice pick of a player who fell a bit. Good bat, but might be a tweener — not enough power for a corner, not enough speed for CF.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
Stephenson is the first HS pitcher the Reds drafted
in the first round since Homer Bailey in 2004.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:06 PM EDT reply actions
I'm gonna call this guy Bob Steve.
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Jun 6, 2011 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Tampa Bay: Jake Hager, SS, Sierra Vista HS.
A bit of a signability pick by a team with 12 early selections, Hager is a solid player who does a little bit of everything well but doesn’t stand out for anything in a huge way. He swings a good bat, though. He profiled as a second-round pick.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:08 PM EDT reply actions
Texas:Kevin Matthews, LHP, Richmond Hills HS.
The Rangers wrap up the night by taking a smallish lefty with a quick arm. Many project him as a reliever. He fits the mold of several Rangers farmhands - Robbie Ross, Kasey Kiker among them. He is a Virginia signee, so he won’t be cheap at all. He was generally considered a third or fourth-round talent.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
Not sure what I did to get a strikethough.
Sorry about that.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember, I'll be around tomorrow to look at
picks 2 through 30. Teams have only one minute to make a pick in those rounds, so they’ll be fast and furious. The draft begins at noon.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:16 PM EDT reply actions
I absolutely can't wait. Day 2 of the draft is possibly my favorite baseball day of the year, after OD.
And a huge part of that is TT’s coverage.
Red Reporters, if you haven’t been around for his draft work, do yourself a favor and hang in the thread tomorrow. It’ll be worth your time.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
Thank you.
I eagerly anticipate noon tomorrow. It’ll be fun.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Seconded.
Thank you so much. I was sorry to miss the excitement today, but the old high school gang got back together and had a pretty great night. I like the Stephenson pick, think he’ll be a solid arm.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I would have liked todays better
if the Reds had about 3 more picks. :)
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Also, I'll add my 2 cents to the pick.
I love it. That late in the 1st round you typically either get a lower ceiling guy (like Gilmartin) or a guy with high ceiling but some question marks.
Stephenson seems to have ace potential, seems to be getting better as he gets older, seems to have a good pitching body, seems to have very minor flaws that are fixable, and seems very coachable. He’s about as low-risk as a HS pitcher can be.
This draft will offer guys with #3 starter potential in later rounds. I like that they went for the upside with this pick.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
There might have been some guys with bigger upside
but I like Stephenson because he seems like he has a good floor too.
The only guys I see with significantly higher upside are also going to be very, very tough signs.
I’d rather have Stephenson than no one, because they couldn’t sign their pick.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
Supplemental round: Washington: Brian Goodwin, CF, Miami Dade JC.
Athlete with some makup concerns. Great speed. Sound bat.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
Toronto: Jacob Anderson, OF, Chino HS
Big raw power, but has trouble recognizing pitches. Played mostly 1B this season.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
Boston: Henry Owens, LHP, Edison HS.
A favorite of some RRers, he’s 6-foot-7, 200 pounds and sits 88-91. His offspeed stuff needs to develop and scouts would like to see more velocity, but Owens is projectable. He’s regarded as the best HS pitcher in Southern California.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
Texas: Zach Cone, CF, Georgia.
Solid raw power. Enough glove. Sound athlete. Batted just .283 this season.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:35 PM EDT reply actions
Sounds a lot like us.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Stephenson
kid seems smart with the good grades, and we have plenty of major league ready mediocrity, so lets get a raw guy with potential.
I don't argue I correct.
Tampa Bay: Brandon Martin, SS, Santiago HS.
Developing bat who projects as a solid-average hitter who is short on power. Can make dazzling plays in the field, but needs to improve overall defensively. Good kid. Came on strong down the stretch.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:40 PM EDT reply actions
Philadelphia: Larry Greene, OF, Berrian County HS.
Greene displays big power, but struggled against better competition. He’ll need to improve to be more than a 5 o’clock hitter. Defensively, he could wind up at first base.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:42 PM EDT reply actions
Boston: Jackie Bradley, CF, South Carolina.
A fantastic hitter early in his career, Bradley suffered a wrist injury and struggled with the new college bats this season. He batted just .259. He has great speed and a plus arm, but some wonder if he’ll hit with wood.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:47 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Tyler Goeddel, 3B, St. Francis HS.
A projection pick, Goeddel shows great potential with the bat. He’s versatile enough to play 3B or CF. His brother is a pitcher in the Mets organization.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Jeff Ames, RHP, Lower Columbia JC.
He throws a mid-90s fastball. His curve and change are developing and lag well behind his heater. An Oregon signee, he’s a project.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:50 PM EDT reply actions
Arizona: Andrew Chafin, LHP, Kent State.
Another pitcher linked to the Reds, Chafin backs a 90-95 m.p.h. fastball with one of the nation’s better sliders, a true 70 pitch on the 20-80 scale. A Tommy John surgery hurler, Chafin’s injury history gives some pause. If healthy, he could be a steal.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:52 PM EDT reply actions
They've done very well.
Very impressive.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
NY Mets: Michael Fulmer, RHP, Deer Creek HS.
Another hard-throwing pitcher from Oklahoma, Fulmer features a mid-90s fastball and a promising slider.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
Colorado: Trevor Story, SS, Irving HS.
I love this kid. He can stay at shortstop, make all the plays and can hit. Power is a question, but Story has a strong bat and a great arm.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:55 PM EDT reply actions
Toronto: Joe Musgrove, RHP, Grossmont HS.
Maybe the most-improved HS pitcher in Southern Calififornia this season, Musgrove is a big-bodied workhorse with a low-90s fastball and an interesting slurve that can turn into a hammer curve when he throws it correctly.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:56 PM EDT reply actions
Chicago White Sox: Keenyn Walker, CF, Central Arizona JC.
Speedy and athletic, Walker hits well from both sides of the plate. He strikes out a bit too much, but has plenty of ability to dream on.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 10:58 PM EDT reply actions
San Diego: Michael Kelly, RHP, West Boca Raton HS.
A 6-4, 210-pounder with plenty of projection, Kelly sits in the low 90s. He reminds some of Nats farmhand A.J. Cole.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:00 PM EDT reply actions
San Francisco: Kyle Crick, RHP, Sherman HS.
Crick has a mid-90s fastball and a promising curve, but still is learning to pitch. A Texas Christian recruit, he’ll not be an easy sign.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:01 PM EDT reply actions
Minnesota: Travis Harrison, 3B, Tustin HS.
Maybe the premier power hitter in the Southern Califirnia high school ranks, Harrison has big raw power and a chance to be an average hitter. He might fit defensively at first base.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:03 PM EDT reply actions
NY Yankees: Dante Bichette, Jr., OF, Orangewood Christian HS.
Bichette has bloodlines, but offers more than that. He has impressive power and a cannon for an arm. Defensively, he needs work and is improving as a hitter. He signed with Georgia.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:05 PM EDT reply actions
sounds like a chip off the old block
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Tampa Bay: Blake Snell, LHP, Shorewood HS.
Snell has outperformed his tools. His skinny frame doesn;t offer much projection. A Washington signee, he’s not yet academically qualified and could be an easy sign.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:07 PM EDT reply actions
Toronto: Dwight Smith, Jr., CF, McIntosh HS.
Smith is among the better HS hitters in the draft. He doesn;t have the speed that his dad did and might move to a corner, but has enough arm for RF.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:08 PM EDT reply actions
San Diego: Brett Austin, C, Providence HS.
A sweet-swinging switch-hitter, he might not have enough defense to stay behind the plate.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions
Minnesota: Hudson Boyd, RHP, Bishop Verot HS.
A big-bodied guy with a plus fastball and curve, Boyd profiles as a workhorse starter.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:11 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Kes Carter, OF, Western Kentucky.
Good pick. Carter hits for power and average. He has a strong arm, but is injury prone.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:15 PM EDT reply actions
Toronto: Kevin Comer, RHP, Seneca HS.
A Vanderbilt signee, Comer won’t come cheaply and the Jays might not want to spend big money on him. Comer threw just 14 innings this season and saw his velocity drop to the mid-80s. At his best, he features a low 90s heater and a knockout curve.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:16 PM EDT reply actions
San Diego: Jace Peterson, SS, McNeese State.
A combination shortstop/cornerback, Peterson is one of the nation’s better athletes. He profiles better at secoond base, but has simple line drive swing that scouts like. Peterson offers well above average speed. A legitimate two-sport athlete, his signing bonus may be sread over five years.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:19 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: Grayson Garvin, LHP, Vanderbilt.
Another pitcher connected to the Reds, Garvin was the SEC pitcher of the year. The definition of a crafty lefty, Garvin pitches to contact. He’s intelligent on and off the field. Garvin has enough stuff to be effective.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
Tampa Bay: James Harris, OF, Oakland Tech.
harris has great speed and a 37-inch vertical leap. A project, Harris’ athleticism is intriguing. He has no college options and should be signable.
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by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:22 PM EDT reply actions
That concludes Day 1 of the 2011 MLB Draft.
I’ll see you tomorrow for rounds 2 through 30. Thanks for stopping by everyone. I thoroughly enjoyed you.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Jun 6, 2011 11:28 PM EDT reply actions
Chris Buckley on Stephenson, from Sheldon's blog
"I saw him pitch three times this year," Buckley said. "To get him in the first round, we obviously liked him a lot. He’s got very good upside, good projection to his frame. He throws hard now. He should throw a little harder as most high school kids do as they get bigger and stronger. We’re real excited to have him."
Buckley said they saw him as fast as 98 this year.
With the changeup magic that gets worked by Soto, I’d imagine this kid really does have potential for three plus pitches.
FB at 93-96
CB
CH
Sounds a lot like Edinson Volquez. Hopefully this kid can throw more strikes.
Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks
Never know when he could pick up another pitch in the system too
Even if it’s not a plus one, a slider for show, maybe a couple different fastballs- Whoo- we could have quite an arm.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."






























