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18 Games at a Time - Capsule 2


An eighteen game stretch which was seemingly marked by alternating wins and losses, punctuated by a steady stream of injury updates, will instead be noted by a strong ending led by two pitchers returning from injuries.  I don’t want to venture into Crash Davis territory here, but it’s remarkable how little margin there is in a three-week stretch between a winning team and a non-winning team.  Win 10 out of 18, and you’re on the short list for October baseball.  Win 9 out of 18, and you aren’t even close.  The Reds are "back on track", with 20 wins in 36 chances, despite being a game back of St. Louis.  Lots of baseball still to be played, and we just whipped out two aces from the hole.  All stats and opinions through Tuesday’s games.

 

Star-divide

2011 Reds, Capsule 2

Overview:

Wins/Losses: 11 - 7

Strength of Schedule: .469 (16th most difficult in NL; 29th most difficult in ML)

[Prev: .458 , 16th most difficult in NL; 27th most difficult in ML]

RPI (ESPN): .491 (10th best in NL; 18th best in ML)

[Prev: .469, 13th best in NL; 22nd best in ML]

Baseball Prospectus playoff odds: 25.9% [Prev: 19.8%]

Offense:

  • .263/.337/.417 (AVG/OBP/SLG) for the team, compares to NL average of .249/.319/.382
  • Year to date, the league average OPS is at 701.  Please re-set your internal OPSometers accordingly.
  • Joey Votto, even in an down stretch (for him), led the way at 274/416/500.
  • Jay Bruce got hot (246/355/554, 6 HR, 14 RBI), despite the .222 BABIP.
  • Drew Stubbs strikes out a lot, more than anyone on the team to date, with 42 on the year already.  But his YTD OBP is .350, he has 11 steals to one time caught, which means he's running about 30% of the time he reaches first base.  He's not a perfect player, but he's turning into a fairly decent lead-off man.
  • Jonny Gomes continues to take pitches and walks (7 more this period), but that's literally all he's doing: 7 hits in 50 at-bats, just two doubles and no home runs.  19 strikeouts, too.
  • The danger of April stats: Edgar Renteria broke hard out of the gate, and his YTD stats still seem close enough to respectable (although he has just one extra base hit for the season).  But Period 2's stats are flat bad: 231/348/231.

Pitching:

  • Team ERA of 3.98 for the period, compared against a league average of 3.58.
  • Travis Wood continues to tack to the unlucky side of life, putting up excellent peripherals, but hampered in his last four starts by a .373 BABIP against.  It appears, however, that he retains enough of the coaching staff's collective confidence to stick in the rotation.
  • Three pitchers made their season debuts this period (Cueto, Bailey, Fisher).  They combined for 23.7 innings of one-run ball.
  • Aroldis Chapman logged 4.7 innings, struck out seven batters, and walked nine.
  • Edinson Volquez also struggled with his command (12 BB in 15.7 IP), but kept allowed just one home run, keeping his numbers in check.
  • Masset's back: 12.3 IP, 8 hits, 4 ER, 2 BB, 14 K
  • The defense remains sub-par: the team DER is .695 for the year (10th best in the NL), and was at .702 for the period.  I'm having trouble reconciling the numbers with my perception, and the early metrics suggest Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs as below-average fielders for the year, which ought to auto-correct in short order.  UZR, in particular, unveils some friendly advice to Dusty Baker: Paul Janish has a 5.5 UZR in 195 innings at SS, and a -1.9 UZR in 40 innings at 3B.  Edgar Renteria has a UZR of -2.6 in 127 innings at SS.

 The next 18:

  • 7 games at home, 11 on the road
  • 8 of the 18 against divisional opponents
  • 7 of the 18 against 2010 playoff teams
  • 3 of the 18 against American League opponents
  • .571 average winning percentage (2011) for the teams in the next 18 games.
  • A ten game road stretch involving Cleveland, Philly, and Atlanta.
  • The Reds will likely return Scott Rolen to the lineup in this next stretch, and they need healthy-Rolen to emerge.  Beyond that, it feels (ack, emotion) like the Reds aren't playing very well, despite the positive ledger.  Things may need to start clicking in lots of different places if they are to truly survive this next kick.  Left field and Cuban Relief would be great places to start.

 Loquacity (or, Put a little hate in your heart):

No man does less with more, or so goes the old joke regarding Tony LaRussa and his hair.  It's not a particularly funny joke, I suppose, although I honestly can't really tell because: a) I love it, because: b) I hate the St. Louis Cardinals.  (Author's note: this essay was mostly written before I read crolfer's sublime post on War/St. Louis.  There is no plagiarism in this piece, although several elements share similarities.  The discriminating reader, of course, has little tolerance for such redundancies.  Blame should be directed at the city of St. Louis, and its ever-hated baseball club.)

This, of course, is primarily due to the ugly reality that the Redbirds have mostly been better (mostly by a healthy margin) than the Reds for most of my adult life.  There has to be something else there, however.  For example, the San Francisco Giants are generally better than the Reds, too, and my well of hatred for them is embarrassingly shallow.

There are many reasons for that (divisional rival, Dave Duncan's magic wand, Chris Carpenter), and those various reasons break down into assorted combinations of rational vs. irrational; objective vs. subjective.  But, to paraphrase a classic rock song title, the hate remains the same. 

Actually, screw it.  The reasons to hate the Redbirds shall not be so easily glossed over.  Another partial list:

  • Fan-base self-congratulation in re: ‘Best Fans in the Game'.
  • While bad facial hair is by no means quarantined to any particular city, St. Louis baseballers have upped the ante considerably, from Scott Spiezio to Ryan Franklin.
  • Two mid-inning pitching changes within the same inning.
  • The alleged rivalry between the Cubs and Cardinals.  I'm going to need to jump out of bullet point mode for this one... 

There are, by my humble reckoning, two permanent rivalries in baseball: Yankees/Red Sox and Dodgers/Giants.  I'm not a baseball historian by trade, but I feel like I know my way around the game's past pretty well.  Enough, anyway, that I can spit out some pertinent details between these teams without pause: Babe Ruth, No No Nannette, Williams-for-Dimaggio speculation, Bucky Dent, Dave Roberts; Bobby Thomson, Mays vs. Snider, Moving to California.  Conversely, I can think of just one significant historical link between the Cubs and Cards: Broglio-for-Brock, one of the all-time lopsided trades, which is certainly noteworthy, but hardly grounds for perma-rival status.

Seriously, where are the pennant races involving the Cards and Cubs?  The great games?  The off-the-field ties?  Both teams were pretty good in the 1930s, and often battled for league dominance that decade, but I'd be surprised if Three-Finger Brown would have trouble counting on his disfigured hand the number of times the two teams seriously challenged each other for a league/division title since World War 2.

Various realignment scenarios get tossed around from time to time; some are serious, most are not.  Typically, they're not worth much more than a quick skim and a shrug, but I distinctly remember once reading that one of the absolute necessities for any such division shuffle was that the Cubs/Cardinals intense rivalry be preserved.  So intense, I suppose, that I had never heard mention of it previously.  Baffling.

Incidentally, I love rivalries, and not all of them are forever.  The Reds and Dodgers had a meaningful and spirited rivalry through much of the 1970s and 80s, before irrelevance and actual realignment diffused the enmity carried by the two teams for each other.  You want to imprint a love of baseball on a kid's soul for life?  Take him to a ball game involving a pair of bitter foes.  I will never forget booing and jeering Tommy Lasorda as he walked, slowly, to the mound for a pitching visit ("Fat Man, Fat Man", the crowd chanted), nor will I forget the ear-splitting roar that erupted when an extra-inning double off of Tony Perez's bat won the game in walk-off fashion (nor his post-game interview: "I heet de ball and we win, Joe").

Rivalry-Baseball Hate-can take an otherwise non-descript game and amplify its details.  How else to explain the elaborate conspiracy possibilities I was constructing after the Cincy/St. Louis game from a few Fridays back was delayed by rain after just six pitches.  The descent into madness was quick, accelerated by the fact that actual tornados later devastated parts of the same city the game was being played.  Who was this nefarious managerial foe who can not only direct the weather, but alter the radar readings as well?  A loss was chalked up to his cunning pitcher maneuvers, but had the Reds somehow won...well, that would have been a glorious triumph of the resilient human spirit, worthy of the full Hollywood treatment.

A quick digression: the conscientious part of me can't write about Baseball Hate without referencing the ugly news from earlier this season in which a Giants' fan was beaten to the point of brain damage outside of Dodger Stadium.  In the aftermath, many fingers pointed at lax security measures as a culprit, which is perhaps factually true but otherwise insane.  Enjoy the game, take responsibility for your actions, don't be stupid.  Hate the jersey, not the random dude who happens to be wearing one.  This shouldn't be that hard, but here I am: wanting to curl up in a ball and hibernate through the impending collapse of society.  Let's move on.

Back to the Cardinals and the joys of rivalry, is it possible to sustain Baseball Hate through a six month season?  In the aftermath of the three game set with St. Louis, it dawned on me how few teams I actually do despise.  MLB's season, compared with the other major American sports leagues, is both longer and more meaningful (in terms of serving as a path to a championship) than its counterparts.  As a result, baseball has this wonderful paradox where singular regular season games are both more and less important, simultaneously.  No other league could possibly have a game similar to the Reds' twister-skirted affair from April 22: roughly the 1/8th mark of the season, with an outcome in the balance feeling as paramount as this one.

To really have 29 other strong rivals in the game would mean that the 140 or so games to follow that one would create for fans a roller coaster effect that the game isn't intended to convey.  It's a marathon, not a sprint, et cetera.  The Reds can lose every future game to the Cards this year, and still win the division.  This is rational thinking, so let's throw it out the window.  My assignment to myself: list a reason (invent one if necessary) for hating every other team in Major League Baseball.  You, the reader, are invited to improve upon my work in the space provided below.  Viva la Baseball Hate!

Angels: Have been known as California, Anaheim, and Los Angeles of Anaheim in my lifetime, despite playing in the same stadium throughout.  Despicable display of shameless marketing, and even more shameless consumption of said marketing by the media and public alike.

Astros: Gimmick-laden stadium instills Baseball Hate with a quickness.  What does a train have to do with the Astros anyway?  Follow-up question: you can read old stories about how the Houston Colt 45's games were miserable affairs due to the heat and mosquitoes.  Astrodome built = problem solved.  Now that the ‘Stros are back outside, why are these original problems no longer current problems?  I asked several people the one time I was at Enron Field.  No one knew.  I hate that.

Athletics: Dave Stewart still thinks they had the better team.

Blue Jays: Joe Carter's home run will get listed as one of the all-time dramatic dingers, to be referenced in the same breath as Bill Mazeroski.  Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but I remember watching Carter's blast, and I remember thinking that the home run was a neat ending, but that the Series was hardly in doubt.  Not really hate-inducing, I suppose, but certainly at the level of being irksome.  Plus, those stencil-design uniform numbers from the 80s...

Braves: The only thing that comes to mind is the 24" wide strike zone that existed for much of the 90s when the Braves were in town.  I actually kind of respect the Braves for how well the team is run.  I'm not very good at this.

Brewers: October 1, 1999.

Cardinals: See opening paragraphs.

Cubs: linky.

Diamondbacks: Four expansion franchises have popped up since I got my first driver's license, three of them have appeared in the World Series, two of them have won it, and the Snakes are one of them.  The Reds, of course, have made the playoffs just twice in that time.  The Baseball Hate appears when these toddling clubs employ actual working strategies to achieve success, shedding light on the relative fecklessness of the team I cheer for.

Dodgers: When I attend a baseball game, I should never feel like I'm surrounded by 35,000 individuals dressed and behaved as though life is a perpetual casting call.

Giants: Dave Dravecky had a wonderfully inspiring story in which he overcame a cancerous tumor found in his pitching arm and made his way back to the big leagues.  In his return debut, he pitched 8 innings and beat the Reds.

Indians: Because I'm not from Cleveland, I'm from Cincinnati.  That, and Major League 2.

Mariners: WHY DIDN'T THEY TURN THE TRADE DOWN???!!?

Marlins: I'm admittedly a sucker for straight thinking, so when an expansion team takes root, and then can't draw any fans, and then the stories pop up about how the stadium is hard to get to, and it rains all the time, and would you want to go to a baseball game if you lived in Miami...well, that definitely brings the Baseball Hate on.

Mets: Most of you sensible people will not believe this, but here comes truth: the best baseball experience in America came from buying a cheap ticket to Shea Stadium, sneaking down to the green mezzanine seats, and watching the game amongst the most passionate and knowledgeable fans I've ever come across.  This experience has been replaced by the opportunity to buy over-priced tickets to another ADD-inspired mallpark.

Nationals: Team stealers, even if their hands are clean, get the Baseball Hate.

Orioles/Padres: I'm lumping these two together; conveniently they're alphabetical neighbors.  I have a bad habit of taking a popular narrative, especially as generated and disseminated by the national press, and assigning that narrative to its object, even if the narrative is not of the object's creation.  Case in point: Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn were long-standing objects of the "this is what baseball players should be like" club.  This was generally understood to mean that the players didn't test the free agency waters, and spoke in easily digestible sound bites, and almost certainly didn't consume anabolic steroids.  And there's a lot to like about both players, each of whom deserve Hall of Fame status conferred upon them.  But, frankly, if I'm creating a role model for the Baseball Youth of America, he probably doesn't refuse to exit the lineup despite having four hits in the last two weeks, and he also probably doesn't push three bills by the end of his career.

Phillies: One of the reasons that Baseball Hate doesn't come naturally is that the sport doesn't lend itself to on the field villains.  As a non-contact sport, there aren't any body-checking goons or in-the-paint enforcers upon which to focus our ire.  What we do have are liars.  Those who pretend to catch the ball when they really trapped it, or those who frame a pitched ball two or three inches to the left or right of where it was actually caught.  This is gamesmanship, and completely understandable, but worthy of at least a modicum of Baseball Hate.  When lying and cowardice are combined, such that a batter perhaps flinches away from a 103 mph fastball in a crucial moment in the most important game of the year and pretends to get hit on a hand pinned against a solid wooden bat and scampers down to first base without grimacing or shaking his hand so as not to have to face a foe who is clearly his superior, well-hypothetically-that would probably call for a greater level of Baseball Hate.

Pirates: Yeah, I'm going to be reaching for this one.  I didn't really like the unusually-shaped hats from the late 70s/early 80s.  And, um...

Rangers: Another stretch.  I like that in an age of bland corporate ownership, the Rangers have been fronted by a future President and a former fireballer.  Their stadium experience is one of the top 2-3 I've ever seen.  It looks like they'll probably get the better of the Volquez trade, so I'll go with that.

Rays: The best players in the short team history are pretty obvious: Longoria, Crawford, etc.  But the first players that always come to mind when thinking about Tampa are the embarrassing attempts at respectability through past-their-prime stars of yesteryear: Wade Boggs and Fred McGriff come to mind.  That Manny Ramirez was on the roster this year indicates that the sideshow ways might not be completely dead. 

Red Sox: The Fenway experience, boiled down into a helpful second person narrative: you are a man of average height and build, not considered by any reputable index to be overweight in any way.  You approach your seat in Fenway and ask the usher for a spare shoehorn so as to fit.  Your seat faces directly at a point which will not be the center of baseball action except for a few isolated plays.  You will hear 30K fans sing Neil Diamond enthusiastically.  You will be told by your neighbor how unfair the baseball system is, when the Yankees can spend over $200M in payroll every year.  You will nod half-heartedly as your brain translates the Boston accent into a voice you can understand.  You will recall that the Red Sox routinely have the second highest payroll in the game, but decide not to bring it up, in light of the fact that the fellow's girlfriend in the pink Red Sox hat (with sequins!) knows more swear words than you do.  You paid over $100 for this event.

Rockies: Even in an era of generally increased offensive levels, Colorado still introduced us to 20%+ park factors.  Awesome.  Plus, purple jerseys.  By the way, how is it that during the mid-to-late-90s, a top level free agent hitter never signed with the Rockies, just to see what kind of numbers he could put up?  Mightn't A-Rod have popped 80 home runs in Coors' Field during his prime?

Royals: The team is 26-34 in regular season interleague games against St. Louis.

Tigers: Never forget

Twins: There's something tauntingly obnoxious about a franchise which routinely wins its division, but never bothers to fix the glaring holes which limit the team's ability to climb above its current plateau.  There's only so many times you can watch a team try to beat the Yankees in the playoffs with Nick Punto and Lew Ford as key cogs without wanting to scream.

White Sox: My six-year-old son, who regularly wakes up a full hour before I do so that he can watch SportsCenter and then walk into my bedroom and announce a summarization of what he's seen ("hey Dad?" ("-mmrpf?") "Bad news: the Reds lost to the Astros ten to four"), tells me that he hates the White Sox.  I'm not quite sure why he does, but this little man has taught me plenty of wisdom thus far, so I'll defer to his judgement.

Yankees: I have a soul.

Comment 47 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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this was fantastic, even moreso than usual

but all the same, every reason you’ve given for disliking the Blue Jays is actually why I like them. So instead lets go for:

Carlos Delgado not standing for the Star Spangled Banner. I would actually have more respect for him if he continued to not stand for the National Anthem of 29 Teams after he moved to the Mets.

Roger Clemens going from hothead Red Sox with high strikeout numbers to the best pitcher of his generation, non-Pedro division.

It’s E after R in CentER, ya hoser.

Let's not kid ourselves. It's really, really, bad.

by Cy Schourek on May 12, 2011 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Addendum to Red Sox hatred

They yell “Yankees Suck” even when hosting, say, the Orioles.

The fights in the bleachers and there are always fights in the bleachers) are among fellow Red Sox fans. If you’re going to get kicked out of the game you spent $100, shouldn’t it be for cracking the skull of your rival?

by OHSnap on May 12, 2011 12:11 AM EDT reply actions  

they yell "Yankees suck"

at football, hockey and basketball games. Strange, those chowdah heads.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 12, 2011 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hating the Braves

is one of my favorite baseball past times. I’m with you in being a gentleman and acknowledging that the team is well-run and those pitchers were amazing, but three things will always and forever make me hate the Braves. Number one is 1995. Number two is Chipper Jones. And number three is Jeff Blauser. What a dipshit.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 12, 2011 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

haha well said

john rocker was also an annoying guy to dislike. The whole “America’s Team” weak ass attempt to be the Dallas Cowboys of MLB was annoying.

But the #1 reason to hate the braves is fucking ez

“The Chop” — the dumbest cheer in the world, and the home crowd will chop for a single or a walk or even a routine out on defense sometimes. Make games in Atlanta nearly unbearable to watch. At least indians fans don’t chop every positive play for their team, afaik.

by cokane on May 12, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

I hate the Braves. The Chop. (It’s racist!) John Rocker. (He’s racist!) And Chipper Jones. (He’s just a putz.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 12, 2011 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent points, and terrible of me to miss:

The chop was stolen from FSU football, and the America’s Team concept…both extremely hate-worthy.

by riverfront76 on May 12, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention the fact that Ted Turner is from Cincinnati

And he dumped millions into rebuilding a team that isn’t the Reds. Dick.

Or even if I just like such as judged a fish contest that would get me outta the house and in some air.

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on May 12, 2011 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would be an interesting list:

Former Cincinnatians/Cincinnati areans who traitorously root for other baseball teams. Sarah Jessica Parker could also headline the list with Ted. Anyone else?

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could you imagine if George Clooney decided to buy the Reds?

It would be fun for a while, sure, but it’d probably not be worth the media spectacle.

Same goes for Charlie Sheen.

Let's not kid ourselves. It's really, really, bad.

by Cy Schourek on May 12, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ted has an excuse. He owns the team.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

way too much displaced hate in this thread

the braves & the red sox are both fine. we should root for them, because if they win, it means the yankees aren’t winning!

all of our hate should be reserved for the new york baseball yankees

by 'tHan on May 12, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can't we just hate the Red Sox?

I don’t like the Yankees, but it’s kind of hard to argue with their history. The Red Sox win a couple world series and all of a sudden they’re the anti-Yankees…F that.

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on May 12, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hate the Red Sox just because I get exposed to a lot more of their fans - specifally Red Sox fans who aren't baseball fans.

I’m not sure if the Red Sox have more fans like that than anyone else (I doubt it), but I think I’ve met all of them.

by andromache on May 12, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I had a buddy go to UVM and he confirms that the fans there are insufferable. He’s an Indians fan, but they would ask him “So are you a Sawx fan?” and he’d reply “no”. So they would say, “So you are a Yankees fan.” And he would say, “no”. So they would say, “Sooooo…you’re a Sawx fan?”

Like no other teams even exist.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 12, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hear that in the Chi area too.

If you aren’t a Sux fan then you must, by accident be a CFs fan.
It’s Trailer Trash meets The Bowery Boys.
But for Bawston jerks, this is more what represents them than anything.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I can easily amplify the Braves hate.

In my formative baseball years, they were the Yankees of the National League. And “the chop” made it seem like all their fans were in a cult.

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Braves were kind of the the underdog at first

I recall the 1991 season when they roared out of nowhere to win that pennant and face the also nobody Twins. A lot of us used to sit in the saloon and watch them. You just had to root for them. After 1995, though, it got a bit old.

Then they kept pooping on their shoe in the W.S., which tarnished their credibility. All the same, I never saw them as a team that bought success. They were smart about it and hence a bit more respected as a result.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also missed the layup on the Tigers...

Completely crapped the bed against St. Louis in the ’06 WS.

by riverfront76 on May 12, 2011 7:28 AM EDT reply actions  

This is definitely a good reason to hate the Tigers

I went from liking them to not caring about them at all basically because of that one series.

by kcgard2 on May 12, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might as well point it out now

hat picture looks a lot like me and shading my eyes while wearing a hat backward is something I’d be likely to do.

"I’ve learned to be upfront and honest with all you low-life yellow-bellied scum-sucking retarded pig fuckers." -- johnu1

by jch24 on May 12, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

The other strategy is to divide and conquer

as this well-adjusted young man has chosen to do.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Enough reason for me to hate the

Pirates, Cubs, ’Stros, Brewers, and Cards is simply because they are in our division and we play them the most throughout the year. They are our competition and the teams we REALLY need to beat. That on top of all the obvious reasons to hate them….adds up to a lot of hatred….especially towards the Cards!

We need Brandon Larson to Play 3rd! Can't be worse than Rentawreck, right?!?

by BiggerRedMachines on May 12, 2011 8:28 AM EDT reply actions  

The Mets

I only have to think of the 1973 NLCS; Pete Rose v Bud Harrelson, garbage thrown on our outfielders, and of course, losing to an inferior team.

"At the very end, somebody took a dump right where I stood in the dugout every day." Dusty Baker

by featherman on May 12, 2011 8:30 AM EDT reply actions  

I used to hate the Mets, largely because of 1999

That was my sophomore year of college, and there was a putz who lived on my dorm floor who was from NJ and a huge Mets fan. First of all, he was from NJ (New York’s armpit) and was convinced it was the best place ever. Second, he was a putz. Third, he was a huge Mets fan. Four, he was a putz. Anyway, listening to him after the play-in debacle was unbearable, and I transferred my hatred from him to the team.

But living here during the last few years of complete incompetence has just made me feel sorry for them. Hating them at this point is kind of like hating a disabled kid. I’ll leave that to Scrabbles!

Billy Hamilton: Snax
Devin Mesoraco: Snacks

by nycredsfan on May 12, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The problem with disliking the Mets now ...

.. yeah, they are in trouble in the front office and they generally have suck for a team, but they are also in NY and somebody will figure out a way to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with that operation. They always did. There is no other logical explanation for the reasons they love the 1962 team … Throneberry, Miller Lite and Choo Choo Coleman … most folks would want to forget that.

The Mets? Noooooooooooooo.

So right after they hit the bottom, something will make the NY sports world learn to love them again. Maybe because the alternative is the Yankee$.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it sure seems like somebody did that.

In that respect, they drove up the price of baseball.
So, yeah, they are worth despising. This would be an example of disliking the TEAM and not the fan base.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd!

"I’ve learned to be upfront and honest with all you low-life yellow-bellied scum-sucking retarded pig fuckers." -- johnu1

by jch24 on May 12, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

my freshman year roomate was a Mets fan

I’d hate him if I didn’t mostly feel bad for him. He was probably one of the most boring people I’ve ever met: spent the whole day watching Family Guy or listening to Foo Fighters and Dave Matthews Band.

Let's not kid ourselves. It's really, really, bad.

by Cy Schourek on May 12, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disliking a team/franchise is usually personal

I dislike the White Sox because their fans are unusually cruel to CFs fans, who are unusually inclined to admit that they cheer for a loser, always did and can’t help themselves. Yeah, and it took me 40 years to quit smoking. I will soon die from that. Break bad habits, folks.

I think the same thing holds true for Mets/Yankees fans, but disliking the Yankees is a birthright. Frankly, I can’t see how anybody outside of the Bronx could say they cheer for them, but there are a few. Most Yankees fans are literally unconcerned about life outside the ballpark.

I would also agree that the stupid “chop” think the Racists Braves fans do is among the most annoying fan gimmicks, beating out the Padre wave by a full decibel.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 9:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Okay, I'm a little ashamed to admit this, considering that I generally remember '99 so well...

What exactly happened on October 1, 1999? And why do we hate the Brewers because of that season? Were they even relevant that year? On a similar note, I still dislike both the Astros and the Mets because of ’99. Also Craig Biggio and Al Leiter.

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 9:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Brewers beat the Reds in a comeback victory

If the Reds held on, the Al Leiter game would never have happened.

by riverfront76 on May 12, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, I see.

I don’t remember that game specifically. But really, can’t the same be said of every other loss that season? One more win, and the play-in game never happens?

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or if we win the play-in game, the one before it doesn't matter.

It’s hard to dislike the Broo-Hoos, but they have turned a touch arrogant over the winter with their perceived “ace rotation.”

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, didn't the Dodgers roll over and die in the last series against the Firstros that year?

I seem to remember hating them some more for that.

"I’ve learned to be upfront and honest with all you low-life yellow-bellied scum-sucking retarded pig fuckers." -- johnu1

by jch24 on May 12, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me, too, except I misremembered it as the Giants.

Who was the Dodgers best hitter back then? Because I distinctly remember someone’s best hitter on the bench against the Astros in a series that wasn’t at all important for that team but was crucial for the Reds’ chances.

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

You remember correctly

Gary Sheffield didn’t play in the last two games of that series. Those bastards.

"I’ve learned to be upfront and honest with all you low-life yellow-bellied scum-sucking retarded pig fuckers." -- johnu1

by jch24 on May 12, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahh, Sheffield.

For some reason I had in my head that it was the Giants and Barry Bonds. Thanks for clearing that up.

by the finest muffins on May 12, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blame Pokey Reese for air mailing a throw to 3B.

Why are you working the permit's desk, and why was that child clubbing your nuggets? ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on May 12, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I met Bobby Valentine a few years ago...

and I asked him about the Lieter game. He was fairly nonchalant for such a formative, negative experience in my life.

by ashersky on May 12, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

This would compare to asking a Boston fan about Game 7 of the 1975 W.S.

They would try to change the subject but who would care?

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 12, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get the analogy.

The Red Sox lost Game 7 (and the world series). Bobby Valentine was the manager of the Mets for that game, and so was on the winning side. He’d have no reason to change the subject.

He said something like, “oh yeah, I remember that game, great game.”

by ashersky on May 12, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is no analogy.

The point was probably missed. Never mind.

I do a lot of stupid shit, but I'm not an idiot. - JCH24

by johnu1 on May 13, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

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