The 2011 Cardinals: Crying Their Way To A Third Place Finish
The 2010 St. Louis Cardinals gave the Reds hell. A lot of it. In their 129th season, the Cardinals steamrolled Cincinnati, going 12-6 against the team that would ultimately beat them for a playoff spot. The Cardinals spent 83 days in first place, leading the NL Central by as much as 5 games. The team finished with a record of 86-76, good for second place behind the Reds (yay!). The Cardinals underperformed against their Pythagorean which had them at 91-71. The Reds and Cardinals created some headlines after remarks by Brandon Phillips where he called them "whiny little b******" and simply put into words what the rest of us already knew. Yadier Molina proceeded to tell Phillips that he didn't appreciate being called a WLB by acting like one and a brawl ensued.
Jason LaRue got his face kicked in by Johnny Cueto, steroidless Mark McGwire was pummeled by Arthur Rhodes, Scott Rolen "protected" Chris Carpenter, and Jeff Suppan crawled out of the fracas like a little baby. So, the question becomes... How will they fare this year? Well, let's take a look:
Until February 23, the St. Louis Cardinals were the consensus favorite to win the central division. Then, something terrible (or incredibly fortunate, depending on your point of view) happened. It was announced that the Cardinals’ ace, Adam Wainwright, one of baseball’s best starters, would be reporting to St. Louis to undergo testing on his arm. The next day, it was reported that Wainwright would indeed be getting Tommy John surgery and the recovery time would likely be anywhere from 12-16 months.
So, now that we’ve got those "un"pleasantries out of the way, let’s move on to some actual analysis of this team that hails from San Luis (that’s how I like to say St. Louis when I’m in a good mood or feeling especially suave).
How are the Cardinals going to fare in 2011? Well, as I’ve already stated, the Cardinals were generally expected to be the best, safest bet to win the Central Division prior to Wainwright’s incident. So, the question becomes "How badly does this hurt them?" In 2010, his age 28 season, Adam Wainwright went 20-11. He finished 2nd in the NL Cy Young voting. He struck out 8.3 batters per 9 innings and walked only 2.2 per 9 innings. The man had an ERA of 2.42. In short, he’s impossible to replace. I’d say, that this loss is going to kick them down from being a serious contender for first place to being a serious contender for 3rd place. Here's why:
THE PARTS:
THE ROTATION: We'll show each player's numbers from 2010 and each players 2011 projections via ZiPS, and go into a little analysis about each player.
1. Chris Carpenter:
via a323.yahoofs.com
2010: 16-9, 3.22 ERA, 235.0 IP, 6.9 K/9, 2.4 BB/9, 1.179 WHIP.
2011: 11-6, 3.33 ERA, 162.3 IP, 6.5 K/9, 3.2 BB/9.
As we can see, ZiPS doesn't expect Carpenter to stay healthy for the whole season. Can't say I blame them. He certainly has a history of arm problems, and frankly, he's getting older. And crankier. Carpenter might not have been a league leader in many pitching categories last season, but he did lead the league in various categories such as "Minutes Spent Screaming at a Shortstop" and "Time Spent Explaining Various Issues to his Son". Will Carpenter still be a serviceable pitcher? Certainly, he might even be an all-star. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him kind of tail off as the season wears on. Interestingly, Carpenter has stated that he would not oppose a trade if the Cardinals wanted to do that. The chances of this happening are miniscule. If they send Carpenter out, basically take it as the Cardinals throwing in the towel- for the next 5 seasons. They probably wouldn't bother resigning Pujols either in that case and would build around guys like Rasmus.
2. Jaime Garcia:
2010: 13-8, 2.70 ERA, 163.1 IP, 7.3 K/9, 3.5 BB/9
2011: 9-6, 3.53 ERA, 117.3 IP, 7.5 K/9, 3.6 BB/9
ZiPS has Garcia keeping relatively constant peripherals. It shows a large expected drop in ERA+ however, from 145 in 2010, to 113 in 2011. The Reds certainly hope Garcia's numbers fall back to earth a bit- He killed them, going 4-0 with a 3.70 ERA. Garcia did benefit from a fairly low .293 BABIP. This season should tell us whether that's more an effect of his pitching style, or whether it was good luck. Garcia will only be 24 this season and is a lefty that could be a mainstay in this rotation for a long time. Garcia was the loser pitching for the Cardinals on the night that Mark McGwire got his shit shaken by Arthur Rhodes.
3. Jake Westbrook:
2010: 10-11, 4.22 ERA, 202.2 IP, 5.7 K/9, 3.0 BB/9
2011: 6-5, 4.11 ERA, 103.0 IP, 5.7 K/9, 3.1 BB/9
For some reason, ZiPS only projects Westbrook to start 17 games. Westbrook has been fairly healthy in the past, so I'd expect closer to 25 games out of him. So, let's kick that Win/Loss record up to say... 10-10. Westbrook is a classic Dave Duncan project. He's a sinkerballer, so don't rule out a surprising season from him... At the same time, I wouldn't count on one either. He's a pretty solid three man.
4. Kyle Lohse:
2010: 4-8, 6.55 ERA, 92.0 IP, 5.3 K/9, 3.4 BB/9
2011: 7-8, 4.62 ERA, 122.7 IP, 5.6 K/9, 2.9 BB/9
Lohse's 2010 was an injury plagued season where he posted a 7.25 ERA in his last 9 starts. He's said that he's healthy and feeling good, but I certainly wouldn't bank on 25 starts from him. Lohse had a great 2008, going 15-6 in 200 innings. Cardinal fans are hoping for a resurgence of the 2008 Kyle Lohse, but I think they'll be disappointed. Lohse hasn't started 25 games since that 2008 season and I'll go out on a limb and say he never will again.
5. This is where the debate begins. The Cardinals are most likely going to look at an internal option, but they could look at some guys outside of the organization as well. As of now, Kyle McClellan looks to be the front-runner for the job. McClellan has started in the past but pitched out of the bullpen last season. He was effective with a 2.27 ERA in 75.1 innings last year and will be entering his age 27 season. Moving him into the rotation creates another problem for the Cardinals in the bullpen.
THE POSITION PLAYERS: Here, we'll basically do the same thing we did for the pitchers, going position by position.
C- Yadier Molina
2010: .262/.329/.671, 6 HR, 62 RBI, 51 SO
2011: .277/.340/.706, 7 HR, 58 RBI, 44 SO
2010 was an interesting year for Molina. First of all, he proved Brandon Phillips correct and showed the world that the Cardinals are in fact, whiny little bitches. Offensively, last year was Molina's worst since 2006, when he was 23. Molina still won a gold glove and had an all-star appearance as a result of his defensive prowess. The little bitch caught 49% of would be base stealers. We can probably expect a similar season from him this year, although I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him perform lower than what ZiPS projects him at, as starting 130 games at catcher might catch up with him a bit.
1B- Albert Pujols
2010: .312/.414/1.011, 42 HR, 118 RBI, 103 BB
2011: .314/.419/1.011, 37 HR, 107 RBI, 97 BB
As we all know, the second best first baseman in the National League had a good season last year. But not as good as Joey Votto. Pujols is also not nearly as good looking as Votto. Entering his age 39 season, Pujols is looking to land a monster contract after the season to keep him employed through his age 53 season. If things work out right, he'll probably be charging the Cubs about $47 M per year for the next 100 or so years. If you guys actually give a damn about him and this stupid contract situation that has Cardinal fans in tears, go watch ESPN, I'm sure they'll have a feature on it every couple of hours. In other news, Joey Votto is currently under contract for the next few seasons and still much better looking.
2B- Skip Schumaker
2010: .265/.328/.667, 5 HR, 42 RBI
2011: .276/.333/.698, 6 HR, 41 RBI
All righty, we look at those numbers and we realize something. Skip Schumaker must be a defensive whiz, right? We've got some real Paul Janish shit going on here, right? Yeeeeeahhh... No. Total Zone puts him at -5 runs on defense. Frankly, offensively, Skip Schumaker reminds me of another former Cardinals second baseman. Aaron Miles. Our very own Pisswater. Is it possible for Schumaker to improve? Sure. Is he going to improve enough to be an above-average second baseman? Nah.
3B- David Freese
2010: .296/.361/.765, 4 HR, 36 RBI, 70 Games
2011: .263/.325/.727, 9 HR, 50 RBI, 99 Games
During limited action in 2010, David Freese put up great numbers for the Cardinals and put up at least average defense at third base. During a full season, we can probably expect to see those numbers fall a bit. Freese crushed the Reds last season. The fragile third baseman certainly can't be penciled in for 140 games though, and if he goes down... especially before the return of Nick Punto, the Cardinals are in something of a fix. Zack Cox is still a ways away from being ready to contribute at a major league level and unless they go outside the organization, they'll probably need to either play Allen Craig (probably will provide slightly below average defense) or go to 24 year old Daniel Descalso, who has played primarily 2B during his minor league career.
SS- Ryan Theriot
2010: .270/.321/.633, 2 HR, 29 RBI, 20 SB
2011: .269/.327/.651, 3 HR, 38 RBI, 19 SB
Whooo! Another guy that's not a big injury risk! The Riot hasn't played fewer than 148 games since 2006! But... the Cardinals probably should hope that's not the case this year. Most of the Cardinal fans I've talked to have been talking up Theriot's offense. Yeah- those numbers there? That's from a full year. We're getting excited about an OPS+ of 70 last year, and a serious drop-off in defense that Brendan Ryan provided. I'll tell you one thing, this is one player I love to see on the Cardinals.
LF- Matt Holliday
2010: .312/.390/.922, 28 HR, 103 RBI
2011: .296/.376/.867, 24 HR, 99 RBI
First thing's first. Matt Holliday is a great offensive player. He's not so great with defense. I mean, he's no Jonny Gomes, but he certainly doesn't play a pretty left field. Hell, the Cardinals are going to put Lance Berkman in RF, so that Holliday doesn't have to play there. That being said, Holliday was an All-Star last year, and he won a Silver Slugger. He also finished 12th in the MVP voting (Joey Votto won the MVP, he's a better player and more handsome). Holliday's a good bet to stay healthy, and will probably put up some pretty respectable numbers for a pretty not respectable team.
CF- Colby Rasmus
2010: .276/.361/.859, 23 HR, 66 RBI, 148 SO
2011: .262/.341/.784, 20 HR, 61 RBI, 131 SO
This is one of the more puzzling projections in my book. ZiPS has Rasmus playing 10 more games (that's what happens when your manager stops acting like a whiny little bitch and lets one of the best players on the team play), but they expect some serious regression. Rasmus will strike out a lot, but between his improvement and Holliday's aging, he's probably going to be better than Holliday within a couple of years. Great offense, plus defense, Rasmus, Bruce, Upton, Heyward, and McCutcheon are going to be anchoring the NL All Star outfield for quite a while (because Bryce Harper is never going to pan out).
RF- Lance Berkman
2010: .248/.368/.781, 14 HR, 58 RBI,
2011: .262/.379/.828, 17 HR, 73 RBI
ZiPS expects Berkman to improve but they seem to forget that Lance Berkman hasn't played more than 50 games in the outfield since 2004. And he was a below average defensive outfielder in his 20's, now? Ummm... This might not work out so well.
THE RELIEVERS: I'll probably skip out on 2011 predictions for most of these guys and just go right into some analysis.
Closer- Ryan Franklin
2010: 6-2, 3.46 ERA, 27 SV, 2 BS
Ryan Franklin's 2010 season was good, but certainly nothing like his 2009 all-star campaign. Franklin will be 38 this season, and we shouldn't be at all surprised to see someone else inherit the closer's role if his smoke and mirrors pitching style begins to fail. Franklin relies on pinpoint control and distracts hitters with his completely ridiculous facial hair.
The Rest-
Next on the list is probably Jason Motte. Motte pitched well in his second full season and will be 29 this season. Motte is the other serious contender for taking over the closer's role. Motte is a rather inconsistent pitcher though, he tends to rush his delivery at times and can be prone to control issues. Motte can bring his heater in around 97 MPH and features a slider as well.
The Cardinals bullpen will feature two lefties, allowing Tony LaRussa to piss everyone off by playing knifey-spoony as usual. Trever Miller will be in his 3rd season as a Cardinal. Last year, Miller had an ERA of 4.00 facing way more right-handed hitters than he should have. Lefties hit only .203 against Miller, while righties tagged him to the tune of a .273 average. If the Cardinals just use Miller against lefties, he should be fine. The other left-hander is a newcomer to the team. Brian Tallet pitched with Toronto last year and appeared in 34 games, delivering an ERA of 6.40. The 8-year MLB veteran pitches great against lefties (.176/.223/.571) but gets absolutely pummeled when he comes in to face right handers (.320/.415/1.031). He's basically the same story as Miller.
The remaining slots will probably be a bit of a revolving door throughout the season. Mitchell Boggs may be a candidate to take that 5th starting spot, but the 27-year old pitched reasonably well last season and will probably be in the bullpen most of the year if he doesn't start. 26-year old Fernando Salas spent most of the year in Memphis, but performed well when called upon last year, throwing for a 3.52 ERA in 27 appearances. Veteran MIguel Batista will be 40 this year and pitched fairly well with the Nationals last season. He has a career ERA of 4.51 as a starter and reliever. Ian Snell signed over the offseason but retired when he was assigned to Memphis earlier this Spring because he's smart and doesn't want to be associated with the Cardinals. Good man.
BENCH
The bench is already going to be hurting a little bit. The Cardinals signed Nick Punto in the offseason to a one-year deal, but will be without his services for about 3 months as he'll recover from a sports hernia. Punto was slated to be the first man off the bench at shortstop, second and third base. Ex-Lawyer Jon Jay will most likely be the primary backup in the outfield and should see plenty of time with Berkman needing rest. Jay will be 26 this season and hit .300, OPS'ing .780. His defense is slightly below average in the corner outfield spots and about average, maybe a little above average in center. The other backup outfielder will probably be Allen Craig. Craig will also be 26 this season. He appeared in 44 games in his rookie season last year, hitting .246 and putting up a .711 OPS. Craig's offense isn't quite on Jay's level, but apart from playing a passable corner outfield, we'll also see Craig on the corners in the infield. He'll probably give Pujols an occasional day off and fill in for the oft-injured Freese as long as Freese isn't hurt. Craig is more of a backup, not a starter- in the same sense where we'd expect to see Cairo fill in at third, but if Rolen goes down, we'll expect to see Francisco or (fingers crossed) Frazier. Let's look at the rest of the infielders. Obviously, the Cardinals have to have a backup shortstop. Your two options at that spot are Tyler Greene and Ramon Vazquez. Greene should already be familiar to most Reds fans. He'll be 27 this year and has 92 games over 2 season under his belt. He only hit .221 last season and only put up an OPS of .655, but he's usually a fairly solid defensive player and can play short, second and third. Vazquez will be 34 and hasn't seen big league action since he played 101 games for Pittsburgh in 2009. Vazquez is fairly comparable to Greene, with a career average of .254 and a .678 OPS across 9 seasons. Like Greene, Vazquez can play short, second and third. If I had to guess, I'd expect Greene to win the spot, although both could make the team. Two other major candidates exist as well. If Theriot or Schumaker go down, I'd expect to see Daniel Descalso called up to take over the starting duties, but barring an injury, they'll probably try to get him starting time in AAA. Descalso played mostly 2B last season in Memphis, putting up a .282/.350/.771 line and providing decent defense. Descalso also got a cup of coffee in the majors at the end of last season, playing 73 innings at second base, and putting up a .648 OPS in 37 plate appearances. The other option would be 23-year old Donovan Solano, but like Descalso, he'll likely start the season in AAA, where he can get every day playing time at shortstop. Solano has been a fairly light-hitting player thus far, OPS'ing only .622 across 6 seasons in the minors.
So, what have the Cardinals changed since last season? Here's a look:
Raul Valdes is a 33 year old left handed reliever signed to a minor league deal. Valdes pitched with the Mets last year, and was effective at times, though he may have been pitching through an injury. He's probably more of a depth signing and probably won't be in St. Louis without injuries occurring. We've already talked some about Brian Tallet. Tallet was signed to a one year deal worth $750,000 to replace former Red Dennys Reyes. The Cardinals traded reliever/spot starter Blake Hawksworth to the Dodgers for middle infielder Ryan Theriot. The most important deal the Cardinals made this season was in signing veteran Lance Berkman to a one-year contract worth $8 million. They'll be depending on Berkman to match Ryan Ludwick's production. The Cardinals also traded Brendan Ryan to the Mariners for 21-year old pitching prospect Maikel Cleto. Cleto, a Dominican, throws in the upper-90's, but has issues with both his control and secondary pitches. He posted a 6.16 ERA in High A ball. The team also signed Gerald Laird to a one-year deal to be the backup catcher now that a certain moronic ex-Red has retired due to receiving about 40 more concussions than the average person. Laird played for the Tigers last season, and has a fairly good arm, but struggles offensively. Miguel Batista to a minor league deal. The poet and author may see some time in the bullpen if he takes a break from writing. They also signed veteran infielder Ramon Vazquez, who could backup at times this season. The other big move the Cardinals made won't pay off for another several months as they signed infielder Nick Punto to be their utility man. He's hurt now, and will have no impact for a few months. The only other signing that could have any impact on the majors this year is Freddie Bynum, but chances are he won't sniff the big leagues this season. Leaving the Cardinals are Jason LaRue (stupidity-forced retirement), Brad Penny (signed with the Tigers), Randy Winn (signed with the Orioles), Aaron Miles (signed with the Dodgers), Pedro Feliz (signed with the Royals), Mike MacDougal (signed with the Dodgers), Jeff Suppan (signed with the Giants) and Joe Mather (claimed off waivers by the Braves).
So, what does all of this mean? The Cardinals basically exchanged Brendan Ryan for Ryan Theriot. Personally, I think this is not going to help the team on the field. Brendan Ryan apparently wasn't a great presence in the clubhouse, but he could at least play solid defense on a team sorely lacking in that category. Theriot? Not so much. Berkman is the other big addition and we've already talked about him. His key will be staying healthy. The rest of the signings will probably have minimal effect on the big league roster.
WHO ELSE COULD CONTRIBUTE? (A Look at the 40 Man Roster)
We've already looked at plenty of guys who may or may not start off the year with the club. Even if any of Miguel Batista, Ramon Vazquez, Freddy Bynum, Raul Valdes, Fernando Salas, Tyler Greene, Daniel Descalso, and Donovan Solano don't make it out of Spring Training on the big league roster, there's a very good chance we could see any of them this season. P.J. Walters, Adam Ottavino, Lance Lynn, Brandon Dickson all could start games this season. Another interesting player is the Cardinals #4 prospect Eduardo Sanchez. Sanchez pitched well in AAA last season and is a hard throwing reliever. He can throw in the mid to high 90's, but needs to work on his command a bit. If he continues to progress and Franklin falters, we could see him in the mix to set-up or close for the Cardinals at some point this season, especially if McClellan ends up starting. Oh, and he'll only be 22 this season. Out of all the Cardinals prospects, he stands to have the greatest impact in 2011. The team's #35 prospect, Francisco Samuel could also see time at the majors this season. If he's going to have any impact though, he'll need to seriously improve on his consistency and his command. Adam Reifer could also end up in the majors at some point this season. The hard throwing righty reliever pitched mostly in AA last year and recorded 17 saves. He's got a good fastball and a strong slider. David Kopp is another name to watch. The former 2nd round pick has struggled to stay healthy in the past and needs a strong showing in AAA to contribute this season. Blake King is another player on the 40 man. He was a 44th round pick, and hasn't pitched above AA. If the Cardinals need to open up a spot on the 40 man roster, he could be gone, though he's pitched well in AA.
So, who else will we be seeing?
Catchers- Bryan Anderson, Tony Cruz. Anderson and Cruz are both middling prospects for the Cardinals. The 24-year old Anderson is the Cardinals #12 prospect. He has a solid bat, but his defense leaves something to be desired. Cruz is ranked around #16. He's also 24 and has posted solid offensive numbers in the mid-minors, showing some pop. His defense is still progressing.
Infield- Mark Hamilton is the Cardinals #20 prospect. In a cup of coffee at the majors last year, he hit only .143 and struck out 5 times in 15 plate appearances. The former 2nd round draft pick has hit fairly well in the minors and has some power potential, but can't really play anywhere but first base. Barring injury to Pujols, we'll really only see him as a LH bat off the bench late in the year. Pete Kozma was the Cardinals' first round pick in 2007. The shortstop hasn't played above AA yet, and probably will be in AAA most of the year. He won't make much of a splash this season and has hit fairly lightly in AA, but has some solid defense. Zack Cox is probably the most intriguing fielder in the Cardinals minor league system. The Cardinals #2 prospect was a 1st round draft pick in 2010. In rookie ball, the 3B hit .400 and showed some good pop. Cox should hit fairly well- although probably won't be able to hit for both a high average and a high slugging, and is fairly underwhelming at 3B. He won't sniff the major leagues this year, but he should be an intriguing player to watch.
Outfield- Adron Chambers is a fairly intriguing player. The 38th round pick was the Cardinals version of Dave Sappelt last season. He jumped to being the Cardinals #15 prospect after the lefty hit .290 in AAA in 37 games. He can play all three outfield positions and has about a 1:2 BB: K ratio. We could see him get a cup of coffee in the majors this season if his strong showing continues.
OTHER JUNK
Which Cardinals are traitors? Only Ryan Franklin and Kyle Lohse have been Reds. And they both sucked horribly when they were Reds. Now? Not so much. Well... Franklin, at least.
And now, what you've been waiting for. We're going to hand out some awards.
The Jim Edmonds Award: Given to the player who best exhibits classic Cardinal douchebaggery. The recipient: Chris Carpenter. Is there any other possibility? Carpenter basically epitomizes everything there is to hate about St. Louis baseball. To be honest, I was forced to give him this award because he didn't win the Cy Young and didn't know what to tell his son.
The David Eckstein "Annoying Little Shit" Award: Given to that scrappy player that really doesn't have any talent, but pisses us off anyway. This year's recipient: Skip Schumaker. First of all, his name is Skip. What kind of grown man is named Skip? The Cardinals have monopolized the league-wide award as well with past recipients including (obviously) David Eckstein, Bo Hart, Brendan Ryan, Aaron Miles, and Adam Kennedy. In short... If you're a Cardinals middle infielder, this is probably the only award you'll ever win.
The Scott Spezio Award: Give to the Cardinal with the most ridiculous facial hair. This year's recipient: Ryan Franklin. The ex-Red wins easily as his main competition, Brendan Ryan leaves for the AL. Challenger Jason Motte was reported as complaining that "Frankie just goes out and finds an ox before each season. Then he violates it. It's not even his own hair! This [expletive] is ox[expletive]. He also eats human excrement."
The Whiny Little Bitch Award: Given to the Cardinal who best exhibits the timeless words of Brandon Phillips. This year's recipient: Yadier Molina. In a shock defeat of incumbent Chris Carpenter, Molina vaulted past the competition by kicking at Phillip's bat and effectively starting a brawl.
The Cheese Award: Given to the player that is named after cheese: Colby Rasmus. This isn't an actual award. His name is a cheese. What the balls?
The Jay Bruce Special Talent and All-Around Good Guy Award goes to no one because this is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire.
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I don't get the hatred I see of a lot of peopel for Loshe
giving what I have seen written about Loshe’s time in Cincinnati (and this isn’t just from you Crolfer) I thought I was remembering the wrong pitcher.
I went to baseball-reference and looked up his stats while in Cincinnati, and over the 2nd half of 2006 and the first half of 2007 he made 32 starts in 33 appearances, threw 194.2 innings, and had an ERA of 4.58 and an ERA+ of 102. That screams pretty league average too me.
Plus Lohse was a pretty important part of the Reds playoff chase in 2006. You have to remember that when Milton went down in September of that year it was a big lose to the rotation, and Milton had an ERA+ of 90 that year (which is skewed a bit due to 2 bad starts immediately before and right after his minor knee surgery in May, and his last 2 starts before he had bone chips removed from his elbow in September, he was actually a solid and useful pitcher in 2006 just not a $10M pitcher.), but the Reds 2006 rotation wasn’t all that different than what i see for the Cardinals in 2011, a couple of aces at the top (Harang and Arroyo Vs Carpenter and Garcia), and an averageish pitcher (Westbrook vs Milton) and a bunch of garbage.
Red Reporter: Driving that train high on cocaine.
Lohse was decent with the Reds
The guy had games where he was completely unhittable. But then he just put it together for the Cards that one year. Plus, he’s a traitor.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Neither has brought us a pheasant, though.
Calmer than you are.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Mar 25, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
What do we have to trade to get a pheasant?
I’m a huuuuuuungry!
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Margbar nedagan mardah!
!مرگ پرندگان مرده
(Death to the Deadbirds!)
How can they die if they’re already dead, one might ask. Semantics, I answer.
Also, apparently, semitics
Is “marg bar” arabic as well as farsi? I didnt know that
Let's not kid ourselves. It's really, really, bad.
by Cy Schourek on Mar 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Farsi
The other reason I use binoculars.
Marrhabba, minn faddlich. Answer your e – mails!
Nomadic baseball fan, with no agenda other than observation/conversation/mass confusion/mass consumption.
by victor frankenstein on Mar 26, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
This was some Silky Johnson levels of hate
Well done sir.
"Those fellas make some good points," Baker said. "They're profane as hell, and they're probably gay, but they make some good points."
Dusty Baker on RR
They low down, they dirrty,
They some bitches!
I’ve got some serious work to do to get my preview of the beverage-makers up to snuff. Yet another stirring performance. Well played, crolfs.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 25, 2011 8:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Still hate the Cubs more
but the Cardinals are a buncha assholes at the top levels. I, of course, make an exception for Pujols. I don’t hate him.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
I think most of it comes from living in the middle of Cardinals country.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I hate the Cardinals more and I live in Chicago
I think it is because the Cardinals have a good past and a respectable history, the Cubs are just sad.
Red Reporter: Driving that train high on cocaine.
by justin007000 on Mar 25, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't hate something that is sad.
When this is the typical cubs fan how can you hate them?

I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That was one of the best previews I've ever read!
I work with an attorney named Colby. We randomly refer to him as Cheddar, Gruyere, Brie, Gouda, Parmesan-whatever strikes us at the time.
I can’t help but shake my head when I think of the amount of time Chris Carpenter must spend explaining things to his son. I mean, wars could have been fought, won and lost in that time!
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get. ~Homer Simpson
I don't know if you ever heard this story...
Last year, LB and I were out at Ruby Tuesday’s with her parents celebrating her 20th birthday. This douchebag waiter kept trying to flirt with her. Eventually he brings her this desert and then when he comes back he asks if she shared some with her BROTHER. What the hell? What was his name? Colby. Screw people named Colby. I broke into his house the next night and now he has to drink things through a straw. In his arm.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
by crolfer on Mar 25, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And his arm is now located where his leg used to be.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
With a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg!
Is crolfer Dr. Nick?
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get. ~Homer Simpson
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Mar 26, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Next time a waiter flirts with your date after your food has already arrived...
“Hey cater-waiter…I hate to interrupt your career path in the food service industry, but you just flirted your way out of a tip. Now fuck off, or you’ll be tying your shoelaces with hooks. Have someone else walk the check over here, I don’t wanna hear another word out of your mouth, Rico Suave. Now don’t apologize, just do as you’re told and get the fuck out of my face before I make this into a real problem for you.”
When with parents, try this version:
“Hey cater-waiter…I hate to interrupt your career path in the food service industry, but you just flirted your way out of a tip. And next time you want to be cute with dessert, bring one for each lady at the table, jackass. Now have someone else walk the check over here, I don’t want you near our table again.”
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 29, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
there is that option.
"Nobody hits Satchel." -Satchel Paige
by justin007000 on Mar 29, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Détente adieu
Also Croifs, I saw an ad on the Science Channel for a show coming up called “Bug Wars.”
"WHAT?? I didn't win the WLB award this year?"
“THAT’S IT! Boy, go cut me a switch!”

Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You know what you done.
Go and cut yourself one, boy.
Calmer than you are.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Mar 25, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Make sure its a good one boy!
If it breaks before I’m done then I pick the new one!
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
typical.
![]()
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 25, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That is by far the douchiest tatoo I have ever witnessed.
I hope his back gets burnt and the scar becomes a more warped smear of shit than it already is.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, that's not fair
You gotta at least give him props for going all out on it. Making it your whole back takes some commitment. Maybe not a lot of brains, but definitely some determination.
If it was the size of a postage stamp on his ankle, then I’d say it was the douchiest . . .
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
by rorschach1979 on Mar 25, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Or on the hip I guess.
Wait until he is 70 and his back looks like a turkey holding a flaccid penus.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said, he may not have thought it through . . .
But that’s what fandom does to ya.
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
by rorschach1979 on Mar 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Damned thing has false teeth
I mean, if you are going to have cartoon chompers, at least make them fangs. Gums are just not all that intimidating, unless it’s a real dog with fangs. Pissed off. At you. Big dog. Growling. Bad attitude. Got you in a corner.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Yeah, Cardinals fans are ridiculous

Wait, wrong Cards….
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
by btcoop71 on Mar 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't besmirch Jorts' Dad!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
I needed an inhaler when I first saw that
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
This is why I love Mr. Harrellson
Doug Harrellson, a construction worker in St. Charles, Mo., said his son didn’t tell him about the Vanderbilt incident until earlier this season.
“He didn’t tell me about it because he feared what repercussions he’d have after I got my hands on the coach,” Doug Harrellson said. “I don’t tolerate those things. That’s unacceptable to me. I don’t care who you are. As a parent, if you did that in this day and age, they’d throw you in jail. That’s not motivation; that’s motivating a kid to not want to do it.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2011/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=6251607
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
That's great
Mr. Harrellson does not look like someone you’d want to piss off.
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
"I said drop your drawers and turn around, boy"
“Imma spit tobaccy juice up yer butt hole.”
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I sooooooooooooo have a link I could post here
But it’s not safe for either of us to open at work. Maybe I’ll post it when I get home. If you’re lucky.
HINT: It involves the phrase, “But I poop from there!”
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
He forgot the syringe.
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 29, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Thoreau
and informative. Well-done, sir.
In defense, however, of Theriot, I saw him play a couple of years with the CFs and didn’t think him all that bad. He isn’t in the H of F but is a pretty dedicated infielder.
But if I were to plant a kiss on the St. Loser problem, I’d say it’s in the GM’s office.
This team isn’t headed north with much pride.
They depended on Tony the Tiger’s magic … and Tony’s rubbing the wrong tool these days.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Regarding Theriot.
He’s not bad, but I think he’s a lateral move from Brendan Ryan at the absolute best. (Not taking into account chemistry issues, apparently Ryan is exactly what we thought and a total prick)
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I also still think Skippy is the guy I'd most want to hit with a large truck.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Theriot is arguably past the point where he should be a starting IF
Let alone at SS. With a bad defender at 2B, their defense up the middle will be really poor.
Offensively, Theriot’s never had any power at all and now his OBP has declined considerably in the past three years. Bad move all around.
Partly on topic
Will we get a Chicken Fuckers Cubs report?
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
I think it was supposed to happen yesterday.
Maybe Geki will post it over the weekend or something.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
/Geki'd
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 29, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Just posted this on my facebook.
I warned Cardinals fans not to read it. That means they’ll all read it. This should be fun.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
You know it. Assuming they don't post here
I’ll keep everyone updated on how silly it gets.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Silly St. Loser fans would include smart people
Those are easily recognized by the quality of their mobile homes.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Oh, I do know a few smart Cardinal fans.
They’re the ones I can actually have intelligent baseball conversation with. Most Cardinals fans are relatively good people, just misled. :P
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
We stereotype for a purpose
to dehumanize the foe, turn them into the roaches and slithering vermin that they must become if we are to reach our ethical greatness.
Therefore, St. Loser fans sucketh the baloney, Maloney. Wait … you’re not Maloney.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
if you like leeches
I can introduce you to my ex!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Mar 25, 2011 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Leeches are good bait.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Are they the best?
Master bait quality, if you will?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
well done crolfs
this is my favorite of the previews so far. Im still waiting for jch’s work, with baited breath.
I think Paulie Walnuts might be able to outperform The Riot at the dish this season. Therefore, ryan is my new favorite Cardinal!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Mar 25, 2011 11:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You feel a burning sensation when you visit Atlanta?
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Historical fact: Sherman didn't burn Atlanta
His army set fire to the barns along the way.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
eh?
… We rode out of Atlanta by the Decatur road, filled by the marching troops and wagons of the Fourteenth Corps; and reaching the hill, just outside of the old rebel works, we naturally paused to look back upon the scenes of our past battles. We stood upon the very ground whereon was fought the bloody battle of July 22d, and could see the copse of wood where McPherson fell. Behind us lay Atlanta, smouldering and in ruins, the black smoke rising high in air, and hanging like a pall over the ruined city.
– William T. Sherman, Memoirs of General W.T. Sherman, Chapter 21
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
Your internet searching is no match for first-hand recollection
by ken on Mar 25, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Underrated comment of the week nominee.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 25, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Historical fact:
Sherman and his men burnt everything they passed including Atlanta.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Historical speculation:
Sherman never lit a match.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 25, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Present fact:
Sherman is dead.
Should I go see SUCKER PUNCH or jerk off to Sailor moon while reading Mein Kampf and save $15? ~ @pattonoswalt
by Corky's Stache on Mar 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So is Elizabeth Taylor?
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Can that really be proven?
If Hellen Keller falls in a forest and no one is around to hear her, does she make a sound?
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
“somomy hep me”
Should I go see SUCKER PUNCH or jerk off to Sailor moon while reading Mein Kampf and save $15? ~ @pattonoswalt
by Corky's Stache on Mar 25, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But, if no one is there does she make a sound?
We know she couldn’t hear it. Philosophy my friend.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it's a rhetorical question.
I just wanted to try to type something like a deaf person would say it.
Should I go see SUCKER PUNCH or jerk off to Sailor moon while reading Mein Kampf and save $15? ~ @pattonoswalt
by Corky's Stache on Mar 25, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I always wonder how they know what they are saying.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ew
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Since I ripped out her vocal cords through her nostrils.
She was a Cardinals fan.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Speaking of Cardinals drivel
Yes you too can help support kids and make Albert a househole (d) word.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
TMZ is reporting
The friction from a Sherman/Keller/Taylor threesome burned Atlanta to the ground.
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
by jch24 on Mar 25, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Order someone to light a match is the same as lighting the match.
I don’t disagree with what Sherman did. It helped end the war. He directly targeted military and government buildings. The rest of the city was just collateral damage.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Sherman's march had the same effect as the A-bombs in WWII.
Overtly excessive force/destruction that ended the war immediately, thereby allowing both sides to begin to rebuild.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Mar 25, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Which means they were good things, as long as you weren’t Japanese or from Atlanta.
I am neither.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No way
Rules of engagement dictate that you only engage enemy military, not civilians. Burning a city or dropping bombs on cities (and it wasn’t just Nagasaki and Hiroshima. They were merely just a pair of the very few cities that were still largely intact after the firebombing campaigns) is an egregious breach of military etiquette at best, a war crime at worst. The ends do not justify the means.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought rules of engagement dictated that a smarmy guy had to make bad jokes while married folks pretended to care?

"Penus, stale beer, and day old hot dogs. Love it"--justin007000
In the end it is personal philosophy.
I believe the ends do justify the means. If it makes you feel any better Sherman told every citizen of Atlanta to leave, and allowed any slave that wanted protection to follow his army. In all facets of war civilian targets have been made if they can sustain a military. This why Sherman destroyed all the railroad lines in and out of Atlanta. He directly burned political and military targets that spread throughout the city. He used a slash and burn tactic from Atlanta to Savannah to destroy the South’s military supply and also to feed his soldiers. Most people don’t know this but his soldiers were not supplied for the march. At this point in time military rules of engagement were shady at best.
I won’t get into the Japanese stuff because that opens a whole can of worms. But, I am still in agreement with it.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
"In all facets of war civilian targets have been made if they can sustain a military."
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It depends on who is making the judgement of right and wrong.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
So there is a God that determines it for us! ;-)
"Penus, stale beer, and day old hot dogs. Love it"--justin007000
Oh brother...

Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that is why I would burn down Atlanta!
if we are that fucking crazy to burn our own city imagine what we would do when we aren’t restrained by nationalism!
Red Reporter: Driving that train high on cocaine.
by justin007000 on Mar 25, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Your first sentence is one of the funniest things I've read all week, thank you
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
I know I know
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 25, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the folks who win the war are inclined to modify this set of rules.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
I love inspired war talk.
I do know that Sherman and a lot of other generals of the time were mixed in their approach toward the civil conflict. First off, all of the generals knew each other and had gone to West Point together.
They agreed on strategy and systems. They all had generally the same equipment and standards.
But at some point, there were personal differences and some of the northern generals saw the confederates as traitors. This was more about that at times than it was about military strategy.
Winning the South was Grant’s stated order. Sherman was told to execute that order. The objective was to win the war.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Grant was iffy about the Georgia march.
He was about Sherman’s only friend. Sherman was a known to have psychological problems and Grant was a raging drunk. They got along quite well, because of their problems that outcast them from normal society.
Grant was still weary of the plan and they had to convince Lincoln of it too. They decided to let Sherman do it because it could quickly end the war, and because Sherman was crazy.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be ...
you clearly have some Civil War study behind you.
All the same, the order would either come from Grant or would be implied to have come from Lincoln. Sherman would not have acted by default. He may have insisted on the plan but he could have been overruled.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Exactly, he came up with the plan and went to Grant.
Grant did not want to make such a large and possibly unethical war decision by himself. He asked Lincoln, and Lincoln said go for it.
At that time support for the war was starting to fade and they were trying to end it as quickly as possible.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That argument applies at Hiroshima,
and more so at Nagasaki … according to western historians who factored in a lot of stuff to justify (support) that action.
Anyway, I have to go to work now, speaking of needless carnage.
I might check in later (so your warning is official)
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
The 2 atomic bombs in Japan were not surprises.
We bombed military production cities engaged in empire building. They bombed us first, and they were seeking to rule the entire Pacific. We warned them, they persisted. The choice was a ground invasion of Japan (costing millions of lives on both sides), the A bombs, or years more of battling a imperialistic force that would cost hundreds of thousands of American lives. My father was in the U.S. Navy in WWII and was in the Pacific tour for years. He could have died at these imperialists’ hands, and he never did a thing wrong to anyone his whole life.
The A bomb drops saved millions of lives. It’s a horrific shame, but our hand was forced. What choice would you have made?
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 29, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a common misconception
perpetuated by a government that was totally aware of the moral short comings of their decision. In fact, we had terms of surrender from the Japanese some months earlier (I believe at Potsdam). They just weren’t totally to our liking. Basically, they were unwilling to give up the Emperor as a war criminal and we were unwilling to accept a surrender without that. He was a living god and they just couldn’t let it happen.
The real tragic irony is that we never ended up trying the Emperor. MacArthur convinced Truman that trying him would be akin to crucifying Jesus. The Japanese were nearly exhausted and in fact had very little will left to fight. But we wanted to prove to the the Ruskies that we had the A-bomb and were pissed off we couldn’t drop one on Germany.
It would be a little more defensible if the given explanation were the true one, but it ain’t. It was a purely politically motivated decision and had nothing to do with ending the war. I have no doubt your father was a good soldier and a good man, but to believe the powers that be were factoring his well-being in this decision is just naive.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there a book about this I can read?
WWII is something I have not looked at beyond my American and Western Civ survey courses because I generally don’t really give a shit about military history.
But after I finish grad school I can finally read books that I want to read again.
This is also up my alley of proving American exceptionalism wrong.
"Nobody hits Satchel." -Satchel Paige
by justin007000 on Mar 30, 2011 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Misled and ignorant, not naive. :)
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 30, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh
My apologies, friend.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for droppin' the knowledge.
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 30, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
I’m just happy to see my worthless history degree pulling it’s weight.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
*Its
The freshman English class must not be pulling its weight.
/ducks
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Ha!
I teach freshman English! In YOU’RE face!
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
In response...
Do you really think that the Americans should have accepted anything other than an unconditional surrender? It is true the Japanese tried to back out of the war, but they tried to do it with as little cost to them. The American’s demanded an unconditional surrender and the Japanese refused. I think in that sense it is warranted to demand such a thing after 3000+ lives lost on a sneak attack that almost crippled our Pacific fleet.
It is kind of like sucker punching some guy you didn’t like in the face, but he is a lot bigger than you. Then backing up and raising your hands, and saying, “wow man lets not fight, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have punched you”. The guy is going to kick your ass, and kick it mercilessly.
Did we use the weapons to scare the Russians? Sure.
Did we have other anterior movitves? I’m sure we did.
Did it save 500,000+ American lives? Yes
Did it save the U.S. millions and probably billions of dollars? Yep
Did it actually save more Japanese lives than what a full scale invasion would have? Yessir
Would it all have been avoided if the Japanese would have taken the unconditional surrender after the multiple times it was offered? How about when it was offered after the first drop? You betcha.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 30, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
but did the civillians deserve to die?
"Nobody hits Satchel." -Satchel Paige
by justin007000 on Mar 30, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No
But, we are also making the speculation that there wouldn’t be a matching civilian death with the immense bombing and fighting that would ensue from an invasion of Japan (particular in Tokyo, which we had bombed into nonexistence, and they still would not surrender). This would also be added on to the astounding number of deaths for American and Japanese forces.
Also you could make the argument that the Japanese directly caused these deaths by not surrendering. Maybe the first bombing could be excused, but shouldn’t we look at the Emperor and Generals and figure out why they didn’t surrender after the first bombing? They were given the same offer to surrender unconditionally, and they turned it down. Then the second bomb was dropped.
In 2007 Japanese Prime Minister Abe Shizno even posted a public apology, stating that the Japanese should have surrendered as soon as losing the war became inevitable. Guess what? Japanese citizens then sued the shit out of the government.
Here is a fun fact. How many Japanese citizens were killed during the Tokyo fire raids? 100,000. This was before Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 30, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Others have addressed your poor justifications
so I would like to just address your point about the firebombings of Tokyo (and pretty much every other major and minor metro area in Japan). The fact that many, many more died in the firebombings than the A-bombings does not diminish the atrocity. In fact, it only further indicts an American decision-making apparatus that felt justified in murdering women and children in an effort to hasten the end of the war. Sure, the A-bombs were not the worst thing Americans ever did to Japanese (or, one could argue, Japanese ever did to Americans). But that doesn’t make it justifiable.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad luck, bad ass, or both?
The only recognized survivor of BOTH blasts died back in January 2010.
(Apologies if I’ve posted this before)
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
This is a step aside
But what I see here are thousands of people who’s lives are effected or ended simply by being born in the wrong place. At the time they had no say in what happens what so ever.
It was a power struggle between Japan, America, and the USSR. I think that really sucks, because a few people who really didn’t give two shits about the peasants made or were part of a drastic and horrible event.
Which is pretty common throughout history. The Vietnam War did the same, Iraq War, the issues throughout Africa, etc.
"Nobody hits Satchel." -Satchel Paige
by justin007000 on Mar 30, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Posterior motives joke aside - your analogy doesn't totally follow.
It’s more like “sucker punching some guy you didn’t like in the face, but he is a lot bigger than you. Then backing up and raising your hands, and saying, "wow man lets not fight, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have punched you".” Then the guy shoots your wife and children.
Certainly there are two legitimate sides to the argument, but we dropped the bomb, and ultimately have responsibility for that decision. Blaming the Japanese for not accepting an unconditional surrender is a little weak.
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
Much of unconditonal surrender
dealt with the fact that Stalin had brought the Soviets into the Japan war only days earlier. Truman wanted Japan to surrender to the Americans so he didn’t have to carve up Japan with Stalin. They learned of this plan at Potsdam.
There was an agenda that ran far longer than just the end of the war. When Japan didn’t yield, Truman pulled the trigger.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
You're obviously fired up
but a lot of that stuff just isn’t true. And some of the other stuff is poor justification for lighting up millions of people for the emotional satisfaction it provides.
Pretty much summed up rationalizing the death penalty
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
by jch24 on Mar 30, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then please if you would point out which isn't true.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 30, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And also I'm not really fired up.
I like philosophical debates such as this.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 30, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Philosophy?
I got an A in philosophy by proving my teacher didn’t exist. #rehatchingancientjokes
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
If I tell you the same joke in reply, is that crosshatching ancient jokes?
"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube
i defy you to proove that he isn't
"Nobody hits Satchel." -Satchel Paige
by justin007000 on Mar 30, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I refuse to tell you all whether I came first.
See the line? I totally crossed it.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Of course you came first
She doesn’t have to come at all.
#highfive
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Joke time!
Q: How long does it take a woman to come?
A: Who cares?
#highfive
"I'm telling you, my other poo story is much better." -- btcoop71
by jch24 on Mar 30, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Her: Who do you expect to please with that?
Me: Me.
by Brendanukkah on Mar 30, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And to your point about terms of surrender
Most of the Japanese high-level politicians and a number of the military officials were ready to surrender at Potsdam. The one issue that really stuck was what to do with the Emperor. They were unwilling to allow him to be tried as a war criminal, so the only condition of their surrender was that he be spared. The Americans would have none of it and dropped the bombs. But of course, the Emperor was never tried anyway, because MacArthur convinced the others that it was a bad idea. Everyone was eager to move on and rebuild and trying and executing the Emperor, the center of the Japanese nationalist and religious societies, would have been the easiest way to turn the Japanese against us again.
It sucked.
Press spacebar to die!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Mar 30, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You folks are actually discussing if war is rational?

God's dice always have a lucky roll.
Sophocles
I believe Godzilla would have something to say about that.
Should I go see SUCKER PUNCH or jerk off to Sailor moon while reading Mein Kampf and save $15? ~ @pattonoswalt
by Corky's Stache on Mar 25, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Historical fact:
Lighters were invented before matches.
by Brendanukkah on Mar 25, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Only when he Tecums, eh?
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
by PeteyHendrix on Mar 29, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting that Dave Duncan gets awesome results from his pitchers, but ALL OF THEM have had major surgery.
TJ for Garcia, Carp, Wainwright, Penny missed all of last year, Westbrook got hurt too (right?), and Lohse with his “we’ve neverseen this injury before” injury.
That team is going to be hurt all year, wow.
Streroids
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. ~ Winston Churchill
by BigBabyBruce on Mar 25, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Duncan lives in the shadow of somebody else's perception
Only Dusty ruins young arms, though.
Announcer: "Just out of the reach of Berkman"
Westbrook just got there at the end of last year
He hasn’t been hurt yet. St. Louis takes a lot of chances on arms with previous injuries, like Carpenter and Penny. I don’t know how much blame Duncan should get.
Garcia got hurt after 16 big league innings, don't think that is fair to pin on Duncan
Plus every pitcher gets hurt.
Red Reporter: Driving that train high on cocaine.
by justin007000 on Mar 25, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Very well done, crolfer
I liked it so much, I had to make the last part my sig. And if it means anything to you, it’s the first sig I’ve ever had.
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
Great job, as expected
I didnt realize how low everybody’s k/9 rates were. They may end up missing ryan and ludwick more than theydve thought.
Let's not kid ourselves. It's really, really, bad.
by Cy Schourek on Mar 25, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This is true
It is baffling to me how a team with a PC who specializes in turning decent pitchers into groundball machines responds by fielding two of the lesser middle infielders in the league.
Gonna be a lot of high BABIP against them this year.
"Penus, stale beer, and day old hot dogs. Love it"--justin007000
LaRussa was ahead of his time...
until he wasn’t. Skip will not be a Cardinal in 2012.
Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!
Unbiased journalism at its finest
I wish Prince Albert was entering his age 39 season.
Great Job
Cardinals suck
pete rose to tony perez "how can anyone as slow as you pull a muscle?"
The men of Lebanon are happy to hear that
by Brendanukkah on Mar 25, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think it's OK for us to hate Trever Miller for also being a traitor.
He was with the Reds in spring training of 2001. He then was sent to AAA and eventually released in September.
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." - Satchel Paige
Didn't even realize that.
Thanks for the additional Cardinal hate fuel, Petey!
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

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