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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Steve Sommer talks about the Cardinals

Steve Sommer is one of the more interesting sabermetrically-minded Cardinals fans around, and a co-author the excellent Cardinals blog, Gas House Graphs.  He and I did a Q&A exchange about the Reds and Cardinals over the past week, and here are his answers to my questions about the Cardinals.  You can find my answers to his questions about the Reds at their blog!

RR: The Cardinals and Reds were neck and neck last season until they swept the Reds in that dramatic series last August. And then the Cardinals seemed to just fall apart. What happened? Was it just bad luck/underachievement, or were there real problems with that team that were ultimately exposed?

GHG: As it is with most teams that don’t reach their ultimate goal I think the answer is likely a little bit of all of the above. The middle infielders (Schumaker and Ryan), while not great players, likely were a little bit unlucky at the plate. They both had BABIPs well below their career numbers, and while some of that was just bad hitting, I doubt it all was. Ironically, I might also start a list of underachievers with those two as well. Both were expected to hit better than they did and as already mentioned, a combination of bad luck and bad performance got in the way.

The major problem with the team however was a lack of depth. Every team has their share of injuries, but the Cardinals could not overcome theirs last year. Once David Freese went down (and he’s only a good player, by no means great) 3rd base was unproductive both offensively and defensively. On the pitching side an early injury to Brad Penny combined with an ineffective an injured Kyle Lohse (who didn’t see both of those coming?) forced the Cardinals to go outside of their system for Jake Westbrook. The price was hefty as we had to ship out Ryan Ludwick, which flows nicely into your next question…

Star-divide

RR: Lance Berkman: key to productive offense, or defensive disaster in right field? Also, what's the over/under on the number of days before his knees give out?

GHG: He’ll definitely be a defensive disaster. He was pretty bad out there the last few years before he moved to first base; I can only imagine what a few years away will have done. I’d set the over under on his knees giving out at around 75 games. The more interesting part of the question is what he means to the offense. Clearly he brings another high OBP capable bat, but I’m a little skeptical about the power he’ll bring. How much the Cards need another power bat probably relates to how well and long David Freese is able to man third and how much the Cards try and tinker with Colby’s swing (not to mention sit him irrationally). All in all I think Berkman will help the offense enough to offset his poor defense, but not enough to make him all that much better than the in house options (Jon Jay, Allen Craig).

 

RR: The Reds were in possession of Ryan Franklin for part of the 2006 season, and honestly, he seemed sort of lousy. He had one of the all-time great low-BABIP, huge xFIP-ERA seasons in 2003, and hadn't done anything of note since. But then the Cardinals signed him and he's become a very serviceable ...not just middle reliever, but closer! How did this happen? And how has he been able to outperform his peripherals every year in St. Louis?

GHG: Smoke and mirrors? Honestly I’m not exactly sure. One thing that stands out looking at his pitch data on Fangraphs is that he’s used the curveball a lot more in St. Louis than with other teams. Generally speaking it seems like Duncan has his pitchers use the curveball at the back foot of an opposite handed hitter as an out pitch. There may be some correlation here as Franklin has done a little better against LH hitters since becoming a Cardinal and increasing the use of his curveball. That said, I think a more likely explanation is in fact smoke and mirrors.

 

RR: Albert Pujols is in his walk year, and recently set a spring training deadline for contract negotiation. What is your take on the current state of the negotiations between the Cardinals and the best player in baseball? Is it possible that he might leave St. Louis? Probable?

GHG: I’m definitely not the best Cardinals fan to ask this question. I have paid practically no attention to the situation other than enough to know that deadlines have been set. I’d say that it’s possible that he would leave St. Louis, but not probable. I think management will eventually decide that they don’t want to anger an entire fanbase by not keeping the best player in baseball. That said, I’m sure Albert’s people know this and will therefore force the Cardinals to pay a premium. Hopefully that premium doesn’t make the deal to much worse than market value. I’d be ok with a slight overpay, but anything beyond slight would make being competitive extremely difficult.

 

RR: A lot was made of the Brewers revamping their starting rotation, but the Cardinals still enter the year with Carpenter-Wainwright-Garcia-Westbrook-Lohse. How do you think the Cardinals' rotation stacks up against other top rotations in the National League, like the Phillies, Giants, and now the Brewers? Any concerns for the coming season?

GHG: I think that the top of the rotation will be solid, but maybe not as spectacular as everyone expects. I’ll take Wainwright right up there with most anyone, but Carpenter I’m less sure about. I think he’ll have a good year, but I’m starting to be slightly concerned about all of the wear and tear on his arm (injury history included). I also think Garcia will have a good year, but wouldn’t be shocked at some level of regression; it’s just the nature of things. Westbrook seemed to thrive in his time in St. Louis and seems like the perfect fit in this rotation. Lohse is likely to be not good, but most fifth starters are likely to be not good. I think an interesting question about the rotation is how much the groundball heavy staff will be affected by the team’s new starting shortstop. Sure Brendan Ryan might not have been able to hit his way out of a paper bag, but he clearly could pick it out at SS. Theriot on the other hand appears to be league average at best. Combine that with Skip at 2nd and you have a miserable middle infield to play behind a groundball staff.

Overall I think the rotation is good with the chance to be great (with Carpenter being the determining factor), but is a good distance behind the Phillies and in the next tier with both the Giants and the Brewers.

Thanks to Steve for answering my questions!

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I like these back and forths

even if they are fraternizing with the enemy! Thanks J!

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

you are funny

you’ve been insisting Garcia is going to regress since last May.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I was right!

He was turrible in September. And worse than his April/May in every month after that. In 30 innings in August, he gave up 15 runs, but since they weren’t all earned, he looks better off. Still, post ASG he was worse than pre-ASG, and he’s more of a #3 than a #1.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think regression is due

and I agree with your theory that their increasingly poor defense will add to it. Doubtful he keeps an ERA under 3, but I still think he’ll hover around 3.5, which is very good

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Right - I'm not saying he won't be very good.

I’m just saying he’s not a Cy Young candidate. I also think he’s closer to 3.7 than 3.5, which isn’t much of a difference.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, he could realistically be anywhere between 3.2 and 3.8

His xFIP last year was 3.73. K/9 was an unspectacular 7.27, BB/9 an OK 3.53. He did have a good GB% of 55.9%, but that could be a problem with TheRiot and Skipper.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you're both wrong and he'll be at 3.6

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 9, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

What's your definition of regression?

Is it a decline in his peripherals or just his ERA?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I can see a slight decline in FIP and for his ERA to regress towards that

I see him as a 3.75-4.00 true talent FIP guy right now

So yeah, he’s probably due for some regression

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

wow, you think it'll go that far?

Just for fun, what’s your projection for him this year?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I can see about 170 innings, similar K-rate, similar BB-rate, rise in HR/9, slightly higher BABIP

3.75 FIP seems about right for that, yeah?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds about right I suppose

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Dave Duncan is a witch

That’s my theory, and I’m sticking with it.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

Ha! This seems very plausible

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Feb 9, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Burn him!

Or drop a house on him. Whatever.

by the finest muffins on Feb 10, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I saw we drop a burning house on him just to be sure

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

And then nuke it.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

The Pirates

lost their arb case to Ross Ohlendorf. Pay up, cheapskates.

Ohlendorf was the player the Yanks got in trade from the D-backs when they refused to part with Micah Owings.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

My guess is they try to trade him

A guy who won all but 11 of his 12 decisions last year should be easy to deal.

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

then again,

wins are overrated.

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

haha yeah

I’m kind of surprised he won, even though he had a 4.07 ERA, his xFIP was 4.96, and he DID go 1-11. Sadly, a horrific record like that will be brought up, even if wins are a stupid stat.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Wins are a stupid stat if ...

you pitched well enough to win and your team sucks.
In Oley’s case, he flat-out was awful part of the time.

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

but

He was somehow a Super-2 player.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

From MLB’s information page

A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

6-2, 185

by brown11b on Feb 10, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

MLB Power Poll

from The Sporting News ranks the Reds fifth, and the Cards ninth.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

Meep.

Methinks we’re overrated.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh, seems that way

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

hush

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Brewers with the 4th best rotation… in the division… who the hey is Stan McNeal?

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

4th best behind who?

I can see arguments for the Reds and Cardinals but that’s it.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Flubs as well. They seem like a pretty easy 1st to me.

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The Brewers?

I dunno about that. Greinke is definitely a 1, and Marcum is good, and Gallardo is good but still inconsistent, and the ginger (whose name I forget) was probably above his head last year. Who’s #5?

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Parra, Narveson, Wolf are listed

Parra with an asteroid for being hurt.

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if you’re going to have Marcum and Yo as “ok” and Wolf as having pitched over his head, yeah, then they’re 4th or even 5th. Narveson is the 5.

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Marcum will be good (if healthy) but will likely regress (only a little) and Yovani still gives up lots of gophers.

I’m not saying they won’t be a good rotation, but I think they’re very close to being an average one.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Nahh

Marcum will benefit from a move to the NL, plus he’s always been pretty solid when healthy. Gallardo still walks a lot of guys, but can be lights out on any given day. Randy Wolf as your #4 starter ain’t too shabby.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Wolf was way over his head last year!

Gallardo is inconsistent, you agree. Marcum is an injury risk, you agree.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Wolf had a bad year, yeah

but a solid (if a bit lucky) 2009. He’s a better-than-average #4 starter, though, or at least could be. Best case scenario, the Brewers have the best rotation in the central, worst case, they’re still probably #3.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

but they gotta stay healthy

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wolf and Molcum break down.

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Molcum?

Marcum has got the classic inverted W form. Since he’s had TJ, another or a shoulder and he’s probably toast. Wolf I wouldn’t expect it.

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Brewers and Cards are similar, rotation-wise

Very good top 3, nothing much after that.

Putting the Reds in the discussion is really a matter of arguing quantity vs quality. Gotta give the edge to the high-end talent in the short term, but we’re much better prepared to deal with injuries.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree

for getting through 162 games I will give depth the edge.

How many teams get through a season using just 5 starters, 6, or even 7.

Last year the Reds used 9 starting pitchers, the Cardinals used 10, the Phillies used 9. You gotta have depth for the inevitable injuries and ineffectiveness.

Five from the group of Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez, Wood, Bailey, and Leake, will open the season in the rotation, and beyond that we have LeCure and Maloney and even Chapman in a pinch. In theory every member of our opening day rotation could be injured at the same time and we could still have a respectable MLB rotation.

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i misread your statement

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I honestly think the Cards are screwed

They have the look of a .500 team to me.

The guy’s right about Carpenter. He’s entering his age 36 season coming off 235 innings. Peripherals are down. Injury history.

If they don’t get the contract done, Pujols will be a distraction.

The Rasmus/LaRussa saga continues.

Berkman hasn’t played more than 50 games in the OF in SEVEN years.

Their infield is among the worst in MLB.

Farm system is defunct. Pitching depth is kiddie pool.

I think this is the year we say goodbye to LaRussa.

I can’t wait!

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

Some of this is true, some is disingenuous

I agree with Carp

You could also make the case that Pujols is in his “contract year”

Rasmus/TLR is dead. It was dead when the story was reported, which was 2 months after the initial incident

I agree with Berkman

I disagree. MIF, possibly, but not the entire infield

Farm system is much, much, much stronger. In fact, our pitching depth is the strongest part of the system. I have no idea what you’re talking about there

… I hope this is the last year of TLR. I think it is.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

TLR

Does his situation have any affect on the team’s chances of extending Pujols?

by ken on Feb 9, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I lean towards yes, and (this is pure speculation), but it's why Mo's kept him around as long as he has

Mozeliak’s definitely had to deal with more constraints than if he hired his own manager

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Specifically, I meant rotation depth

It is inevitable that at least one of the top 5 will spend significant time on the DL.

Carp has missed 3.5 seasons due to injury.
Westbrook has missed almost 2 seasons due to injury.
Loshe is a huge gaping vagina.

Who do the Cards have that can fill in when this happens. Where’s your Maloney? Ou est votre LeCure?!?!!

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Let us hope the Reds have a Maloney ...

… when that inevitable injury occurs in the rotation. Everybody has to adjust.

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

IDGI.

The Reds have a Maloney. His name is Matt Maloney.

by the finest muffins on Feb 10, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey that could be our rotation...

by August… Not one of those pitchers is as good as Maloney.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, but they're all capable depth

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Ian Snell is completely and hopelessly washed up....

Ottavino is rehabbing a torn labrum, Batista is 40 and hasn’t started in years… I would say Lynn and Walters are the only guys that are better than the best pitcher who will spend the summer sitting by the phone.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Duncan has turned worse pitchers than Snell into servicable starters

Augenstein’s the one that intrigues me the most, actually

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

So our rotation is...

AW-Carp-Garcia-Westy-Lohse-Lynn-Walters-waiver wire. That screams “sign a pitcher” to me.

Have you seen Augenstein pitch? He looks like a guy who should walk more hitters.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Your argument against a dude is "He looks like a guy who should walk more hitters?"

You’re definitely being excessively bearish

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He just gave up a ton of hits...

I wonder if he’s throwing too many strikes, or if he just has mediocre stuff.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Snell has the talent

still, it would be a remarkable accomplishment to turn him into a MLB starter. I wish I could say that I don’t believe its possible, but…

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

what happened to him between 2007 and 2008?

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 10, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there's a movie about it.

“Curse of Starting for The Pirates” or something.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

really, huge gaping vagina?

what does that even mean?

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, you see

When a lady has a lot… hmm?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm afraid to un-block this image

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 10, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

don't be

just a couple of foot fairies

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

brewers

can’t get much worse (or fat) than what they have

I like my beer cold, my tv loud, and my homosexuals flaming.

by vottomatic on Feb 9, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Pujols is average at first, Skip is abysmal at second, Theriot is average at short, Freese is slightly above average at third

And he didn’t say defensive infield… he just said infield.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm fairly sure he was talking about defense.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The Braves could be pretty terrible defensively

The Brewers infield is bad for sure, The Astros could be awful. Marlins, Tigers, Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Giants are also pretty questionable to me.

by kcgard2 on Feb 9, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Defensively? Yeah

Unless Carlos Lee spends a lot of time at 1st.

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

They're talking about trading Lee for Michael Young too.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Young may be the only person they could trade Lee for that wouldn't be a clear steal on their part

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know if Chris Johnson is good defensively

but Keppinger is bad, especially at SS, Bill Hall might be average at 2B. Clint Barmes slightly above average wherever he might play, or maybe average at SS if he still plays SS. Honestly, I forgot about his addition, so that helps a lot, and he’s not even that good of a defender. I could still see them being below average, but probably not bad, you’re right.

by kcgard2 on Feb 10, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't follow the farm system comment either.

The Cardinals have consistently been ranked in the bottom 1/3rd of the league this year for farm systems. There’s not much there beyond Shelby Miller.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

remember

this?

Cards’ farm looks pretty sucktastic, though they are skewed to pitching.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Carlos Martinez, Tyrell Jenkins

The talent’s there, they’re just all far from the big leagues

And our system is ranked low, but we’ve consistently put out Major League talent. On our current 25-man, we have Molina, Pujols, Skip, Freese, Rasmus, Jay, Craig, Greene, Wainwright, Garcia, Boggs, Motte, Salas.

There’s not a whole lot of high-ceiling, MVP-type guys, but a lot of league average talent that is underappreciated in prospect rankings.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

For what it's worth, Klaw says that Martinez has a decent chance at being better than Shelby

…and he has Shelby ranked #9

Ben Badler has said that Martinez has one of the best fastball at any level in the minors

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't mention Keith Law 'round these parts.

He’s wrong about one kajillion times for every time he’s right.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

What reason is that?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

There's also no reason for incredulity

We’re having a perfectly civil conversation. Comments like “Wow. Just… wow” seem pretty condescending

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right. I apologize.

I’m still getting used to looking down on you guys, and if I lack grace, it comes from years of suffering followed by earlier than expected success.

Producing league average players doesn’t seem very valuable to a high payroll team like the Cardinals. Though, I guess it’s becoming more important, considering you’ll be spending $50M on two players soon and you may not be able to add the kinds of bits and pieces that have kept you afloat in the past.

In that case, more power to you! Keep cranking out replacement players!

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Be that as it may

I could still use a nickel every time a Cardinals fan accuses someone else of being classless or tries to offer unsolicited advice on how to conduct their business.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone on the outside

know about the existence or nature of the melodrama between TLR and Rasmus?

Are there 6th and 7th starters in AAA for the upcoming season?

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The beat writers have a pretty good clue; they all (along with Rasmus and TLR) that the feud is squashed

I posted about 6th and 7th starters above. We have more than enough SP depth

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm of the opinion

that there is no such thing as enough SP depth. Even with the depth the Reds have, I’m still a bit nervous.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 9, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Now this was funny, rec'd

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Farm system is much deeper, but almost all of it is more than a year away.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a correct assessment

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

You should see a brain doctor

Seriously.

You’re going to start seeing purple elephants any minute now.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

It is deeper. It's not good. Just deeper.

Apart from Miller (and maybe Cox, although I’m not a believer) it’s full of guys who may, if they are lucky, be league average players, but will more likely be bench guys.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I argue that the league-average players are underappreciated though

Realistically, they have the exact same mean as the high-upside guys, with a smaller variance. That’s very valuable.

A good system has a healthy blend of both, and the Cardinals have done a VERY good job of developing the league-average guys over the past few years, and are now injecting the high upside prospects into the system.

All of this is mostly an aside; we’re not a good farm system, I agree

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure without doing a lot of research

He was in charge of the draft for 2-3 of the Jocketty years, however

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

All of them except Pujols and Molina...

and the guys who are obviously from outside the org. He’s done a good job on the whole.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Does the 'all of them' include pitchers

or was that just position players?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It includes pitchers...

but that only includes Boggs and Garcia. Everyone else is from other organizations… Jason Motte was picked before Mo. Jess Todd, Chris Perez, and Clay Mortenson were Mo picks and later traded. Jay, Craig, T Greene, Rasmus, and Brett Wallace were all his too.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Thanks for the info.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That sounds like a fan talking :(

Your system is chock full of bench players… without Pujols, woof. Freese and Jay and Greene are mid-.700 OPSers in all likelihood, which isn’t bad, but they’re probably league average at best.

by jsl413 on Feb 9, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The fanhouse and btb articles are from before....

the Cards added Cox, Jenkins, Blair, Swagerty and Matias/Martinez… And the bleacher report article was published by the bleacher report.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Not vouching for the quality of those publications

But I can’t find anything that puts the Cards anywhere near the top half.

Most seem to agree that you had a solid first day of the draft this year.

by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Feb 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think they're in the top half...

I think BA has them in the low 20s. They gutted it for DeRosa/Holliday plus they recently graduated Freese, Rasmus, Jay, Craig, and Garcia. There’s a lot of disagreement about Cox, plus Jenkins and Martinez are a very long way off, so there’s variance there. It isn’t good, but it’s not horrible either.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

What!?

Bleacher Report is amazing! Or at least the FakeBleacherReport twitter feed is…

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that there is a lot of value in league-average players

My point is that apart from a few really young pitchers, the system is full of guys whose ceiling is being league average (Cox, Craig, etc.) You are loaded with young pitchers, but apart from Miller and Martinez, I’m not jazzed by any of them. (Jenkins is just so young and raw still) I doubt that even 4 of BAs top 10 of your guys end up as league average players.

It seems like you have a serious need for some positional depth which you are really lacking, and the pitching depth is, for the most part, at least 2 years away.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That's probably a fair assessment

I disagree slightly about Cox (Something like a 3-3.5 WAR peak might be there), but the rest seems pretty true to me.

by stevesommer05 on Feb 9, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Cox the third baseman that fell to them in the draft last year?

Sorry, I don’t know a whole ton about prospects- working on it, but right now I really only know guys with the Reds.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah.

I think something like Daric Barton’s year last year (maybe with a little more power and little less OBP) is something he could do decently soon. That and league average-ish D is probably around the 3-3.5 WAR

by stevesommer05 on Feb 9, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

He’s supposed to stick at 3rd then?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I've heard that yeah

He’s not the same as Brett Wallace, who was doomed from the begining

by stevesommer05 on Feb 9, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know how anyone could walk with those thighs.

They’re a spectacle.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I was sceptical so I GIS'd

and wow. just….wow

"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."

by Cy Schourek on Feb 10, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Even Yonder thinks those thighs are ridiculous

The good news is he shouldn’t have trouble finding a husband with those birthing hips of his.

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

/howdoesmyasstaste'd

I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.

by Corky's Stache on Feb 10, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that's absolutely his ceiling.

I don’t doubt he’ll hit for a high average and walk enough (although not a ton), but I really don’t see him hitting for much power. If he does, expect the average to go way down.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that was his issue in college

He either hit for power with a low average, or a high average with no power

Rumor has it that he was tinkering with his swing a lot to cut down on the strikeouts, which is what sapped his power

The talent is definitely there; the Cardinals just have to harness it and hopefully he’ll be able to hit for both average and power

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

No offense, but I think that attitude is peppered with a ton of homerism.

It’s like when we Reds fans think Juan Francisco is going to learn to walk a lot and get good at 3B defense.

Cox has never, ever shown an ability to hit for both average and power. It seems extremely optimistic to assume he’ll suddenly be able to.

I agree that the talent is there…..to either have a high average or lots of power, but not both.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course. I wasn't comparing them as prospects

Just comparing attitudes towards them.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I just wanted to take another opportunity

to express my distaste with END. And fantasize about trading him.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

This could be our year!

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

oh I've been hangin on it for some time now

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Get rid of him.

Sooner the better.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet if obc or jch came up with the nickname you'd like it

#rawr

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Which just happens to be the worst nickname ever

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, he's a nickname generator

Nobody said he was a good nickname generator.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 10, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

None of that subjective on my part; all of that comes straight from scouting reports

His freshman year, he tried to hit for power (and succeeded), but struck out too much

His sophomore year, he made a deliberate attempt to cut down on his strikeouts (and succeeded), but sapped his power a bit

I think the fact that he was able to succeed with both approaches WHILE tinkering with his swing speaks to his talent level and why he was a top-10 prospect coming out

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, scouting reports that say he'll be able to hit for average OR power, not both

I read all of those reports too, since there were rumors of the Reds drafting him. That brings up another point. I know money was an issue, but there has to be another reason he fell so far in the draft. I think there are significant questions about his overall offensive potential.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he has the ability do both

We’ll just agree to disagree.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 10, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds kind of like Stubbs

minus the speed and defense, so probably much less valuable.

by ThePensive on Feb 10, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

that's what I was thinking

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 10, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

TWSS

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Aw, another Cardinal fan who hates Tony LaRussa?

Makes me miss my Grandpa. He’s hated the dude for as long as I can remember.

But he also said (I think on the day he died, actually!) that Albert Pujols was overrated. So maybe I should take his opinions with a grain of salt.

by the finest muffins on Feb 10, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure they may end up a 0.500 team

But I’d argue they don’t have “the look” of one. On paper they may not be a 95 win powerhouse, but I’d think they’d line up something along the lines of 88ish. Carp, while I’m concerned, doesn’t mean he’ll be value less. I don’t really care if Pujols is a distraction or not. The team is a veteran team (unfortunately, but that’s another story) so I think they can handle it like big boys. I think the LaRussa Rasmus thing will figure itself out. Even if it doesn’t Rasmus put up 3.5 WAR in that environment. Berkman, eh, understand. That said I think there league averageish replacements there if he gets hurt. Infield D is bad. No argument here. They’ll be better offensively than last year though (not a high hurdle). Farm system is below average and may be “defunct” as far as replacements this year. A little better long term I think. Pitching depth is no where close to yours, but not many teams are. Yeah if a SP loses significant time, I’ll be concerned… a couple of weeks, not so much.

by stevesommer05 on Feb 9, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

There's no way the Cards could afford Michael Young, right?

He seems like a good fit to help the Cards have a less terrible infield, and they are on his short list of teams he would play for.

Watch it, ass blood.

by -ManBearPig on Feb 9, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Screw Pujols!

What we need is Michael Young!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

So...

I’ll take that as a no?

Watch it, ass blood.

by -ManBearPig on Feb 9, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Any money we would have in the budget is going towards Pujols, I'm sure

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Michael Young wouldn't be that much of a defensive upgrade

He’s seriously declined recently. That being said, if Texas would pick up a huge chunk of salary, I can’t imagine Young wouldn’t be welcomed as the new starting 2B.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm working on a new line of t-shirts featuring Glenn Beck

I’m calling the line “Glenn Beck killed…” The shirt will just be a standard print across the chest saying, “Glenn Beck killed” a famous person in history. Examples:

Glenn Beck killed Dale Earnhardt
Glenn Beck killed Abraham Lincoln
Glenn Beck killed Ghandi
Glenn Beck killed Allen Iverson
Glenn Beck killed Freddy Mercury
Glenn Beck killed World War I
Glenn Beck killed Susan G. Koman
…and others!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 9, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill O'Rielly'd

I don't generally like running. I believe in training by rising gently up and down from the bench. - Satchel Paige

by Madville on Feb 10, 2011 2:34 AM EST up reply actions  

/John Fya'd

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Glenn Beck killed me softly with his song.

Actually, I guess it was pretty loud.

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Feb 9, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Glenn Beck killed Kenny!

That bastard!

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 9, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

See?

It’s a great idea because there is an inexhaustible list of people for him to kill!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 9, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You put bread in and toast comes out!

Explain THAT!

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Of a t-shirt?

Which in-flight novelty catalog do I need to send this check to??

Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Feb 10, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Truckin' Bozo!

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 9, 2011 3:07 PM EST reply actions  

Steve Sommers is the son of Dale Sommers, The Truckin' Bozo

Linky-fied.

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 9, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

guys, can you help out by identifying these players

(all on your 2010 roster)
i’m not 100% sure on most of them so i thought i’d come to the source and ask
picture 1 who’s that behind rolen?
picture 2 the three guys in the background
picture 3
picture 4
picture 5
picture 6
picture 7
thanks

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 3:12 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

1. Ryan Hanigan
2. from left to right, Drew Stubbs, Brandon Phillips, Chris Heisey, Paul Janish
3. Juan Francisco
4. Ramon Hernandez
5. Chris Valaika
6. Miguel Cairo
7. Travis Wood

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 9, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks, much appreciated

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Ma'am*

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i sneak in and out of the good seats

i’m quite sneaky

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i love that chapman pic.

but i don’t particularly care for your brandon phillips captions :)

by GrooveLeg on Feb 9, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks, for what it's worth

i really toned them as farther down as i could

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Dang...

Those are some awesome seats. Do you remember which game that was? I made a couple this year-

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

the pictures are timestamped

on the right where it says “This photo was taken on…”
i navigate Busch Stadium easily and chances are i didn’t pay for the seat those were taken from

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

all of you guys thanks for this

we were all assholes last year.

Prior to August I actually enjoyed VEB, I thought that the analysis was good and most of the comments were witty.

I was an ass who wasn’t use to winning.

Why don’t we turn our hate together towards the Cubs, that is something we can all agree on.

"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."

-Joey Votto

by justin007000 on Feb 9, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

BCB takeover Friday at noon?!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I like this idea

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

justin, at times you were also just an ass

i really enjoyed RR before all that crap went down too
and sparks flew between both blogs and from both sides, it wasn’t just us
but i also don’t speak for all of veb
however, this is a new season now so i’d like to put this behind us and just enjoy baseball

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

justin, i think i might have misread what you wrote (oops)

regardless, i’m looking forward to some friendly bickering this season
cheers

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

nice pics!

Rec’d.

Even if you didn’t recognize our starting SS, future hall of famer Paul Janish. ;-)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

My goodness

It’s been a crazy day and I’m just now getting over here to take a look at the comments.

I also finally got a chance to send a direct link to Gas House’s thing with my comments/responses. But here it is:
http://gashousegraphs.com/2011/02/09/nl-central-5-questions-cincinnati-reds/
-j

by JinAZ on Feb 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST reply actions  

Big thanks to Justin

For doing this with us. I’ll try and peruse some of the other discussions above and see if I have anything to add.

by stevesommer05 on Feb 9, 2011 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

Can I start blatantly trolling yet?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Only if you're willing to be blatantly racist and homophobic

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Just wanna say thanks to the classy Cards fans on here

I’ve had my arguments with ya (lookin at you guayzimi—sorry for my snark), but nonetheless I appreciate civil and smart banter with a tinge of good-natured needling. On that note, GO REDS

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

STRAIGHT TO THE CELLAR LOLOLOLOL

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Feb 9, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't that where TLR keeps his secret animal sex slaves?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yo, Tony

what’s fer lunch?

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 9, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

at least we know he's not a serial killer!

I saw him on Housecat Housecall. He runs a cat rescue organization.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 9, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It saves him a lot of money on groceries!

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 9, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The Reds aren't natural enemies...

of the Cardinals – the Mets, Astros, and Cubs fill that role. If the Reds would just accept their rightful place next to the Pirates we could avoid kerfuffles like the Cueto affair.

Sign Rodrigo Lopez!!!

by guayzimi on Feb 9, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I object to this

because, according to what I’ve learned from Jerry Bruckheimer movies, pirates generally have very poor personal hygiene.

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Feb 9, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

but they sure know how to wear the hell out of that eyeliner

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

And Gary Numan!

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Feb 9, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

ahem-the CARPENTER affair

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 9, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

the AL West has room...

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....

by d-dee on Feb 9, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Why so serious?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, of all things in this world to hate,

Cardinals fans on the internet seems like a good choice.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

/crolfer'd

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me just say one and only one thing about the Cards

They’re alright but LaLoser can fucking blow me

I don't generally like running. I believe in training by rising gently up and down from the bench. - Satchel Paige

by Madville on Feb 10, 2011 2:34 AM EST reply actions  

Sabermetric question

There should be some sort of Bill Hall-like stat. So if the Reds signed Bill Hall and buried him on the bench, or AAA, or a shallow grave the reds would gain 2-3 wins that year. Like a WAD (wins adjusted for death of a certain player). For example Mariano Rivera would have a huge career WAD on Boston.

by RedHotHollywood on Feb 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

Mariano Rivera already blew his WAD all over Boston multiple times

/trytheveal’d

"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs

by jch24 on Feb 10, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

There isn't a stat, but there is the Bill Hall All-Star team

Which, by the way, needs to be updated.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Feb 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

So, apparently the Twins are open to trading Liriano

Power lefty with ace potential? WANT WANT WANT

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

Wonder what the price would be?

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Feb 10, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

They have Morneau at 1B and Kubel at DH

so I dunno about Yonder. They’re weak up the middle, as are most people, so it’d probably have to include someone like Hamilton. And then they’d probably want a pitcher, so yeah, Homer or maybe Leake/Wood. Plus one or two others.

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

'tHan's method of analyzing a trade is.

“Get rid of whoever I don’t like!”

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

i like homer

i was trying to be a little more fair.

although i do like him less than leake or wood

by 'tHan on Feb 10, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

My bad, confused you with HLM for a second.

I doubt he has that much trade value right now. It would probably take Wood or Leake to get a deal done.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Just like Quatman's and a Burger Beer!

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

or a Quatman's Burger Beer!

What a delicious combo!

Calmer than you are.

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Feb 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

They seem to like all glove-no bat MI types (coughNickPuntocough)

so maybe Janish or Valaika would appeal to them. Obviously not as a centerpiece, but a supplemental piece. Does Leake/Hamilton/Valaika get it done?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

It damn well better.

That’s a proven, cheap pitcher with some upside, a top 100 prospect, and an immediate contributor who might be able to start, all for a guy who may or may not stay healthy and won’t be cheap.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

but I thought that was everyone!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you go so far as to say that their up the middle is a huge, gaping vagina?

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Feb 10, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

a huge what now?

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd hang onto Wood

Leake, Volquez, Arroyo

All expendable if it means we get Liriano. I like Homer better than Leake (I think).

b/c of what he makes, I’d see if they’re interested in BP, and also see what interest they might have in Dorn, Vailaka, and Frazier (although keeping Frazier does seem attractive). END is very expendable.

by Highlifeman21 on Feb 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Doubt they'd have much interest in Dorn, unless he was a throw in

they could’ve taken him in the Rule V 2 years in a row

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 11, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

good point

I forgot he’s been passed over in the Rule V

by Highlifeman21 on Feb 12, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

we have plenty of trading chips

make it fucking happen Walt!

Trade Volquez!

by Highlifeman21 on Feb 10, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't even know why I said "potential"

he is an ace

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, he'll probably be looking for a long term agreement

It says here he wanted 3/39 million.

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Feb 10, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder

if Brian Cashman is organizing the fleet of Brinks trucks yet.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

this is what I was thinking too

Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"

by UncleWeez on Feb 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't the Twins go 1-3 in the ALDS anyhow?

What’s the point?

Map Quest really needs to start their directions on # 5. I'm pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

by johnu1 on Feb 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

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