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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Scouting Reds Pitchers: Johnny Cueto

Today we turn our attention to Johnny Cueto.  Cueto had a big year last year, and at least in terms of his ERA seemed to take a step forward in his development (though his peripherals might disagree...).  But today, I'm not here to tell you how good he--I'm trying to describe how he goes about being however good he is!  Let's look at his pitches.

Pitches

Cueto_pitches_medium

As Mike Fast pointed out in my last piece on Cueto, MLBAM was consistently not classifying Cueto's cutters correctly.  They are right in the middle of the plot, and I've outlined them in the graphs.  It looks like most of the cutters are misidentified as sliders, though some may also be mistakenly labeled as change-ups.  This means that the stuff below on pitch selection, etc, is going to be screwy, as I don't have the facilities to correctly classify those pitches and get the data.

In any case, beyond a cutter, Cueto also throws two-seam and four-seam fastballs, a change-up, and a slider.  The slider looks a bit "low" in the graph, but that's because I'm showing the gravity one--helps make his change-up pop out more.  It's a normal looking slider.

Star-divide

Velocity

Cueto_velocity_medium

Cueto has an above-average fastball, averaging 93 mph and occasionally hitting 96 or 97.  Speaking as a fellow 5'10" male, that's pretty impressive velocity for guys our size!  Cueto's cutter comes in a bit lower (~89 mph), while his slider and change-up both leave the hand in the low 80's (though they break in opposite directions).  The average velocity difference between his fastball and change-up is 9 mph, which isn't quite as good as Volquez's difference...but it's still probably at least average.

Outcomes

Pitch Use% Strike% GB% Whiff% LgWhiff%
Four Seamer 26% 66% 20% 11% 6%
Two Seamer 30% 63% 36% 7% 5%
Slider 31% 59% 53% 10% 14%
Change 11% 61% 51% 11% 13%

With the qualification that some sliders and some change-ups are actually cutters, we get some idea of what makes Cueto tick here. He seems to rely on his fastballs and sliders primarily, mixing in change-ups more occasionally.  The two-seamer does not appear to do much for ground balls.  It's better than his four-seamer, but this is not a Brandon Webb sinker here.  Both pitches have above-average swing-and-miss rates, however, so that gives him good reason to go to those pitches.

His secondary offerings, however, seem to be pretty good at inducing ground balls.  The only problem there is that they are not particularly good in terms of whiff rates.  So we have a trade-off: the off-speed pitches can induce ground balls, but his fastballs can be used to record strikeouts--and probably can also be used to avoid walks.

Approach

vs. RHB Opening Pitch Two Strikes Full Count Behind
Four Seamer 29% 28% 33% 41%
Two Seamer 33% 23% 25% 47%
Slider 31% 46% 33% 6%
Change 3% 3% 4%

Against right-handers, Cueto largely ignores his change-up.  He's pretty even with which of the other pitches he will use to start off a hitter, but with two strikes he goes for the slider almost half of the time--he does seem to consider that to be his out pitch.  In 3-0 counts, he throws fastballs pretty much exclusively.

vs. LHB Opening Pitch Two Strikes Full Count Behind
Four Seamer 29% 30% 34% 38%
Two Seamer 39% 24% 17% 33%
Slider 14% 36% 41% 5%
Change 14% 9% 7%

Here's where that Mario Soto change-up is used: against opposite-handed hitters.  As noted in the Volquez report, it's hardly a secret around baseball that the change-up is one of the best weapons against opposite-handed hitters.  Some change-ups actually show a reversed platoon split, while others at least don't show much of a split at all--which is more than you can say for most other pitches! 

Interestingly, while he'll start a lot of lefties off with a change-up, Cueto still seems to go to the slider when he's trying to strike left-handers out.  And with a full count, he really seems to rely on the slider, while diminishing the frequency of the two-seamer and the change-up.  And when he's about to walk someone, he still goes for his fastballs.  (Also, quick note: the reason that his "Behind" numbers don't add up to anything close to 100% is that there were a bunch of unclassified pitches thrown in that count--maybe they were intentional walks?  Dunno.)

Comment 67 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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BTW

If you have not been to Church of Baseball to see the film “Raincheck,” do so soon.
Wonderful little presentation by the Head Priestess!

Red Reporter: A Cincinnati Reds' fan Community Compose of a Bunch of Profane Motherfuckers since February 9th, 2005.

by johnu1 on Feb 28, 2011 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

Nah

I think it just says a lot about Daedalus, She’s been posting here a long time. Longer than you or me. Not everyone agrees with her politics, but she’s one of us.

And it’s a great video. Why be pointlessly mean about it?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Mar 2, 2011 6:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Concur'd

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Mar 2, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

It says much more about you

Like BubbaFan says, your comment was pointlessly mean. And if you’re gonna snark, be funny.

I’ve seen a lot more condescension and trollish behavior around here for the past six months or so. It’s definitely not just you, but you certainly aren’t helping.

by ken on Mar 2, 2011 8:41 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

To be fair, I'd blame him less than "not just you."

Both sides have been escalating, and bystanders are getting caught in the cross-trolling.

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Mar 2, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

This may be sarcastic.

But I still want to say that out of everything, harassing BF is really out of line.

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Mar 2, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

it was not sarcastic, it was genuine

and the harassing of bubbafan stemmed from her first making a personal attack on me.

by 'tHan on Mar 2, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

when?

"If you have selfish ignorant citizens you're gonna get selfish ignorant leaders."-George Carlin

by justin007000 on Mar 2, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

And you got her right back.

I don’t think that necessarily justifies you belittling her comments in other conversations.

And I don’t think it justifies HLM going around doing it either, although I realize you don’t control him. (I was speaking generally, not specifically).

"there no countrey called west xylophone" Youtube

by andromache on Mar 2, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, you're probably right

and in fairness to bubbafan, i did call her the most awful thing i could possibly think of….A Yankees Fan

by 'tHan on Mar 3, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I what?

You gotta be kidding.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Mar 3, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I did say "definitely not just you"

But it’s not as if there are dozens of offenders.

Also, I don’t think of there being “sides” here. At least, I don’t like to think of it that way.

by ken on Mar 2, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

we need to unite as a single party with a single purpose

and crash VEB

"If you have selfish ignorant citizens you're gonna get selfish ignorant leaders."-George Carlin

by justin007000 on Mar 2, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Mar 2, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

if i have learned anything from studying politicans in history

is the best way to unite a group of people is to create a real or fake “dangerous” enemy. VEB is standing on RR’s right, it is a fight between life and death.

If you mods start spitting that out daily we will be drones under your thumb. If you do it on your own, you could overthrow the weak intellectual elite tl;dr and be reign supreme at RR.

"If you have selfish ignorant citizens you're gonna get selfish ignorant leaders."-George Carlin

by justin007000 on Mar 2, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

so i take it you won't let me be your Karl Rove?

"If you have selfish ignorant citizens you're gonna get selfish ignorant leaders."-George Carlin

by justin007000 on Mar 4, 2011 2:34 AM EST up reply actions  

We miss Papa-Slyde

he use to be around, go to our little league games, and everything else. And he started missing a game here and there, and than one day he just wasn’t there anymore. No he just calls us once a month. We are acting out.

"If you have selfish ignorant citizens you're gonna get selfish ignorant leaders."-George Carlin

by justin007000 on Mar 2, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

that is great

Someone should Fanshot it.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Mar 1, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think anybody reads FanShots.

Red Reporter: A Cincinnati Reds' fan Community Compose of a Bunch of Profane Motherfuckers since February 9th, 2005.

by johnu1 on Mar 1, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

These graphs also don't document the most devastating weapon in Cueto's arsenal.

The karate kick to the temple. He only used it sparingly in dire situations, but he gets great velocity behind it and had a 100% success rate in getting guys out with it in 2010.

At least one major leaguer was quoted as saying he would rather retire than have to face that again.

by Supreme Olajuwon on Feb 28, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

For a strikeout pitch

his slider isn’t very good at being a strike or missing bats. What’s that about?

Press spacebar to die!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 28, 2011 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

To be fair

He’s not exactly a strikeout pitcher. 6.7 k/9 is basically average.

But yeah, I was surprised by that.
-j

by JinAZ on Feb 28, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

If he has a "strikeout" pitch though

you’d think he’d use a better one than that. Perhaps that’s the source of his dwindling K rate?

Press spacebar to die!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 28, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish we also had....

HR rate, usage rate for bases empty (and effectiveness), and usage rate for man on first for each pitch.

Looks like a lot of work, though.

by MatthewH on Feb 28, 2011 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

HR rate will correlate to GB rate

They should, anyway. The problem with HR rate is that even at a full season, across all pitches, HR can fluctuate randomly from year to year. It’s the reason that xFIP is more reliable than FIP. So I don’t really trust those data when looking at single-season pitch outcomes. It’s for a similar reason that I’m not reporting BABIP for each pitch.

As far as pitching with me on base…I could go there, but I think for now I’d prefer not to. You’d expect pitchers to try for more ground balls, but also perhaps avoid breaking pitches in the dirt with men on base. You also could look for effects of baserunners on pitch selection—fast guys on first should result in more fastballs and fewer curveballs.

Ultimately, though, I think it’s just adding more complexity. We can look at stuff like that later on, perhaps… For now, I’m really just trying to do a first pass through Reds pitchers. And it’s taking longer than I expected per article—Bronson Arroyo and Homer Bailey have all sorts of weirdness that I had to sort through! :)
-j

by JinAZ on Feb 28, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want, you can look that stuff up at any time...

http://bit.ly/gymAO2

With Cueto, looks like he throws slightly more sliders, and fewer two-seamers, with men on than without. Otherwise, not much of a difference. I’d be surprised about the two-seamer thing if his two-seamer induced ground balls, but it doesn’t really.
-j

by JinAZ on Feb 28, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see why HR rate would correlate to GB rate..

There’s an awful lot of results besides ground balls and balls to the warning track. I don’t giving up a lot of foul pops to the third baseman is a sign that you’re going to give up a lot of home runs.

In Cueto’s case, I can see from the site that Cueto seems to give up a lot more 2-seam fastball homeruns than 4-seam. He uses a lot fewer 2-seam fastballs on full count. I wonder if that means he doesn’t mind getting beat, as long as it’s not by a home run. Some guys prefer to maximize the out% even if that means giving up more home runs.

I dunno, just thought it was interesting. Maybe it’s not significant, and maybe I can’t deduce his logic from it.

by MatthewH on Feb 28, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

HR rate does correlate with GB rate overall.

More balls in the air means more chances for a home run. Home run per fly ball rates are extremely volatile, and fluctuate wildly from year to year. Based on some of Matt Swartz’s stuff, there is more pitcher skill in controlling BABIP than there is in controlling HR/FB%. I can try to find a link for you if you want. But here, 2010 qualified pitchers, HR/9 vs. GB%:

I have not studied this for individual pitches, but I would be shocked if it were not true. And I’m sure someone has looked at it—I’m just not well read on pitchf/x because there’s soooo much out there. The only exception I can see might be for something like a curveball. They tend to induce a greater than average number of GB’s, but you do see home runs off them when they are left up in the zone.

Again, I’ll caution against l making any conclusions about HR rate by looking at single-season data for any one pitcher. In Cueto’s case, he gave up more HR’s per pitch on his two-seamer in 2010, but in 2009 it was his slider, and in 2008 it was his change-up.
-j

by JinAZ on Mar 1, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be against it either.

It usually seems like a pretty good pitch. Fairly decent whiff percentage. I’m kind of surprised he doesn’t use it more with 2 strikes.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Mar 1, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't disagree, just looking for a reason.

I do agree that it might be useful to throw it more, especially against lefties.
-j

by JinAZ on Mar 1, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

then again

if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Might be something to do if he struggles some though.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Mar 1, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I know this is gonna sound crazy, but....

I went to the Mother’s Day game at the last season of the dump name Shea Stadium, circa 2008

my buddy and I sat a row behind some smokin’ hot MILF, unfortunately with her kid in tow

Cueto had a shaky 1st. Reyes got on, stole 2nd, Castillo knocked him in, Beltran knocked in Castillo, Alou knocked in Beltran. Wash your hands, deal for the next 3 innings. Seriously. Dealing. Used the change, down and in to RHB, they couldn’t touch him. I was sitting in scout seats (thanks Eric Young’s cousin Keith) with my buddy, we had a great view to watch Cueto deal. Seriously dealing.

And then he just stopped throwing the change in the 4th inning, and then we never saw it the rest of the game. He started the 5th inning, but all 3 innings that scored that inning charged to him. He tried to sneak a Homer Bailey laser straight fastball by the Mets, and then threw a slider on predictable counts in the 5th. He literally turned into a 2 pitch pitcher.

Fastball. Slider. Fastball. Slider. I don’t have the pitch f/x to back me up, but that’s what I remember. He got beat with the Mets hitting a couple good pitches hard in the first inning, and then he looked awesome for couple innings and then he went away from a game plan/scouting report.

Only other memories I have from this game is Adam Dunn hitting one of the only Sac Flies I have on record with a pink bat., and Freel getting gunned down by Scott Schoenwies & Brian Schneider in a no contest (which my buddy wouldn’t shut up about for 2 innings)

Long story short, I saw a weapon in Cueto’s change up that day, and for whatever reason he went away from it, and got beat like justin’s penus @ Wrigley Field

by Highlifeman21 on Mar 1, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm flaggin this

because i thought your link was going to be a picture of the smokin’ hot MILF

by 'tHan on Mar 1, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

soooooo ... yeah,

we know how the game turned out.

More about the MILF

Red Reporter: A Cincinnati Reds' fan Community Compose of a Bunch of Profane Motherfuckers since February 9th, 2005.

by johnu1 on Mar 1, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry

she was basically an 8, with an awkward 12 year old, which my buddy actually took to grab cotton candy (what MILF allows her doofus 12 year son go off with a 27 year old she just met to get cotton candy?!?!), b/c that was his move for the day

so he claims to this day they made out on the concourse while I babysat the 12 year old in the 6th inning, while they grabbed ice cream in the souvenir little helmets

I think he’s full of shit

by Highlifeman21 on Mar 2, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

sounds like it

didn’t he even know enough to use the family restroom? i meant, that is what they’re there for, right?

by 'tHan on Mar 2, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't know obc at that time

I didn’t have that advice to offer him

by Highlifeman21 on Mar 2, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask and ye shall receive

http://bit.ly/fKLRV5

Unfortunately, pitchfx doesn’t back you up. Its classification of his change-ups looks good to me in that game, and it shows 4 change-ups in the 5th inning. That’s tied for the most he threw per inning that game.

Generally, he mostly just uses it against lefties. I don’t know enough to say whether he should also use it against righties. I think he might have yesterday (though I’m lousy at pitch id’s by eye), but it’s spring training so…
-j

by JinAZ on Mar 2, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

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