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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Updating the Top 100; Honorable Mention - Johnny Cueto

Still kickin' it.

This off-season, the list of top 100 Reds (found somewhere on the left-hand sidebar) will not be adding any new names, although the order will certainly shift a bit again, due to the active players already on the list. Before we officially re-arrange the pantheon, however, let's first spend some time over the next couple weeks celebrating the currently-rostered players who are on the next level of historical import.

Also, briefly, a barely-related footnote: the Reds are in striking range of a distinction not applicable since after the 2000 season. If Cincy wins 83 games or more in 2012, they will possess a rolling 5-year winning percentage above .500. The stench of the Horrid Decade is nearly completely behind us now, and the quantity/quality profile of players is good enough to complain about, which is miles better than our previous position of Severe Indifference.

Anyways, on to the show.

Honorable Mention: nation.com/mlb/players/31622/johnny-cueto" class="sbn-auto-link">Johnny Cueto

I don't have a list of the greatest pitching debuts in Reds history, but if I did, Cueto would have to be on it. April 3, 2008: Cueto scattered one hit across seven innings while striking out ten. He actually began the game by retiring the first 15 hitters, and cruised through the 7 frames in just 92 pitches. Not bad for a 22 year old rookie.

As an aside, 2008 doesn't feel like that long ago, but here was the lineup from that marvelous entrance, which the Reds did win: Freel - Keppinger - Griffey - Phillips - Dunn - Encarnacion - Hatteberg - Bako - Cueto. You've come a long way, baby.

At any rate, those kinds of debuts will get a fan base excited, but perhaps Cueto was not quite ready for prime time. By the end of that first month, his ERA was well above 5, and it hovered near that level throughout the rest of the season, with the young pitcher showing a particular proclivity to the long ball: 29 surrendered in just 174 innings.

Since then, Cueto has been quite the study in trending patterns. His HR/9 rate has fallen each year, and his BB/9 rate has basically done the same (2010 and 2011 walk rates were virtually identical). Similarly, his hits allowed per inning have followed the same progression. So, naturally, has his effectiveness: ERA+ rates of 92, 95, 112, and 169. It's that last one that has people jazzed up. A 169 ERA+ ranks as the 13th highest single-season mark in Cincinnati history. Could this be the ace long desired?

One season is never enough to label a star, and so it is with Cueto. Questions remain. In particular, Cueto's breakthrough 2011 was also home to his lowest innings output (on the shelf in April and the last half of September) and strikeout rate (steadily falling along with his other peripherals). Is he fragile? Losing the ability to miss bats? One suspects that 2011's curiously low hit rate is unsustainable, but even with some regression, Cueto is easy to project visions of long-term quality upon. Signed through 2014, we will find out together, for good or ill.

In his four year career, Cueto holds a 41-37 record, with a 3.83 ERA (109 ERA+). His most recent season has pushed him just above the threshold for ‘honorable mention' status, currently ranking as the #246 player on the all-time list.

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how many reds pitchers have started an opening day

When they’ve been ranked 246th or lower alltime

"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"

by Ewok on Dec 5, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Edinson Volquez

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 5, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Edinson Volquez

Joey Hamilton (!)
Brett Tomko
Mike Remlinger
John Smiley
Pete Schourek
Tom Seaver

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Dec 5, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell

I bet every pitcher making their first OD start with the Reds has ranked that low at the time.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Dec 5, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Harang?

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 5, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I know riverfront76 doesn't use WAR

but Harang had 5 career rWAR with the Reds when he made his first OD start. That’d be around 215 right now. But then Johnny Cueto has 8.2 rWAR so far, so he’d be ahead of Harang.

Here’s each pitcher’s rWAR with the Reds when they made their first OD start for the team:
2011 – Volquez: 5.1 WAR
2006 – Harang: 5 WAR
2005 – Wilson; 2.2 WAR
2004 – Lidle: 0.0 WAR
2003 – Haynes: 2.5 WAR
2002 – Hamilton: -0.1 WAR
2000 – Harnisch: 7.8 WAR
1999 – Tomko: 4.4 WAR
1998 – Remlinger: 1.0 WAR (last minute replacement for the traded Dave Burba, 5.2 WAR)
1997 – Smiley: 8.2 WAR
1996 – Schourek: 4.3 WAR
1992 – Rijo: 16.2 WAR (finally, someone who tops Cueto!)
1989 – Jackson: 4.7 WAR
1987 – Browning: 7.0 WAR
1982 – Soto: 5.1 WAR
1980 – Pastore: 0.3 WAR
1978 – Seaver: 5.4 WAR
1977 – Fryman: 0.0 WAR

So, one pitcher in the last 25 seasons that obviously outranked Cueto in value when he made his first OD start.

Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Dec 5, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

seaver got his 5 WAR in one half season no

"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"

by Ewok on Dec 5, 2011 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yes

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Dec 5, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Joey Hamilton...

it wasn’t even like he was a one-year wonder and the Reds thought they captured fairy dust. He was 6-10 with a 5.93 ERA the year before.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Dec 5, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

The opening day rotation in 2002 was Hamilton, Dessens, Haynes, Acevado, and Reitsma. I don’t think any of those guys even had a guaranteed spot on the 25 man roster, much less in the rotation when the Reds opened spring training. Hamilton was the best spring training pitcher so he was the opening day starter.

That rotation tricked me into thinking Wilson was good (low expectations rock!)

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 5, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow lets see if i can name the years

Hamilton-2002
Tomko 1999 (I was at that game!)
Remlinger (1998)
John Smiley (1997)
Pete Schourek (1996)
Tom Seaver ?

What do I win?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 5, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing that surprises me most

about the lineup in Cueto’s first start is that BP was the cleanup hitter. I didn’t realize Dusty started that shit so early in his tenure with the Reds. Also, Baker has the exact same record as manager of the Reds as he did with the Cubs. I think that is not good, but I’m not sure.

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 5, 2011 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

f I'd been asked to guess which player in that lineup would go on to be adapted as a major character in a Brad Pitt movie

I probably wouldn’t have guessed Scott Hatteberg. Now Bako, there’s a different story. I expected him at least to appear in some ads for Bac-Os.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 5, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked Hatteberg.

He really lost it in a hurry, never to be heard from again.

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 5, 2011 2:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Hey,

Hatte only had 3 stolen bases in 4876 PA. Does anyone know who has the least stolen bases per PA in MLB history with at least 4500 PA? I don’t, I’m just wondering if anyone could find out.

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 5, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 5, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

As I recall, Cecil uprooted the first bag he stole in a joking effort to keep it as a trophy.

He held it briefly above his head, Rickey Henderson style.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 5, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes us old. :)

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 5, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

He musta been on the juice in '96

TWO whole stolen bases!??

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 5, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Number of Cardinals he's hit or kicked

That’s the most important stat to me.

The amount of liquor I drank last night would've killed a small-to-medium sized Asian family.

by balooko31 on Dec 6, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

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