Left on the shopping list: Relievers
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 30, 2011 7:02 AM EST
in Cincinnati Reds Rumors
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PrintIt's worth asking, after the Reds traded for an elite reliever in Sean Marshall, whether they need to go get another late-innings arm. After all, with Marshall, they can construct a bullpen something like this:
- Marshall
- Masset
- Ondrusek
- Arredondo
- Bray
- LeCure
- Jordan Smith/Andrew Brackman/Josh Judy/Kanekoa Texeira/Luis Atilano
- Ryan Madson: The market may have collapsed for Madson and he's been christened the "the loser of the offseason" over at FanGraphs, while MLB Trade Rumors thinks the Angels and Reds are the only two teams remaining that would offer him multi-year deals. The Reds probably aren't in any condition to get in a bidding war with the Angels, though it's possible DiPoto hits a spending cap at some point and Walt could get creative with the contract. Madson is the best free agent reliever still out there, so is there any baseball ops reason for the Reds not to sign him at a deflated price, unless it still eats up the remaining payroll to do so? Madson will be 31 next season and would bring much-needed chair-kicking intensity to the 'pen.
- Joakim Soria: Soria has standing up on the trade block so long he's made David Blaine look like an organ grinder (NOTE: Come up with better turn of phrase later). The Royals don't seem to have much urgency to move him with years of control left and competitive tokenism to consider. While his contract wouldn't be much more expensive - it at all - than Cordero or Madson would be, he'd require another payload of prospects that might make for a pretty depressing Red Reporter Community Prospect Ranking next month.
- Kerry Wood: Wood would make a serviceable closer or closer mentor at a discount from Madson. But I think there's an unspoken agreement in baseball not to reunite Baker and Wood, if for no other reason than to avoid the torrent of wisecracks and terrible sportswriting. There's also something creepy about aping the 2011 Cubs, though it might as well be their bullpen if you're going to do it.
- Brad Lidge: Lidge would be a risky sign, given his injury history and chronic control problems. But he could also be a considerable bargain. And there should be no need to guarantee him the closing job outright.
- Brandon League: League would be another rental that would raise the hackles of anyone who hated the Marshall trade. But if the Mariners are eager to get something for him before the deadline this year, he could be had without a busy market ratcheting up the price. Though he's not a strikeout machine, he was excellent last season, walking just 1.5 batters per nine innings while pitching to a sub-3.00 ERA.
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I was expecting to see zero votes for CoCo
The Reds would need to sign either to a FA contract, presumably at a roughly comparable amount.
Madson has logged fewer miles, has better numbers, has better peripherals, is younger, and wouldn’t bring him the added opportunity cost of a free draft pick next year.
Can someone please explain the rationale for preferring Cordero?
Madson will be more expensive in dollars
that’s literally the only reason to prefer Cordero.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Madson's a Boras client
I’d love to have him. But even with a soft market, he’s going to get his money and years. I don’t see the Reds paying for him. It’s possible that Cordero would take a one-year deal from us, which I’d prefer to giving Madson three years at a higher AAV.
this was my reason for voting Coco.
Of course, it’s easier to project what I think the two of them will get then actually know what they’ll get. But I’m not thrilled with either, in all honesty.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 30, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I guess it boils down to how much that supplemental pick is worth
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
and how much of an upgrade Coco is over who will lose their roster spot to keep him.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 30, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
masset...
hey, i don’t know what hit masset last season, though i kind of think this guy just never got into a set role…with the use of chapman…who i’m very reserved about overall…and the rotation so often leaving early and causing an almost daily ‘what we gonna do know’ thing to using the pen, i do wonder if masset just never really got a chance to settle in and know what his role was, which he filled so well in 2010…whatever, he’s proven to be durable, able to go out to the mound most days, and no one questions his ‘stuff’…me, while i am concerned about how he might bounce back, i’m still thinking this could be our guy for the closer role…lots of people are down on him, but really, if you’re considering chapman, lidge, etc., well, none of them are ‘locks’ to do well…and cordero, bless him, just seems to be losing a little…maybe, in some way, that helped his performance last year though, kind of being a little less in some ways, but you have to think that major league hitters have taken note about that if it actually exists…a little less on the fastball, etc…
I dunno bout Masset no more...can't see him in the closer role fer sher
But I am of the opinion that Chapman will begin to come into his own in 2012. He’s always been a starter and getting back into that role, going out every 5 days, doing what he’s been successful at should help settle him down and become more consistent. As consistent as a guy who throws over 100mph can be.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
I kinda am
just because he pitched a lot between 2009 and now, and there are a ton of relievers who are great for 2 or 3 years, get burnt out, and move on to the land of 5 ERA.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 30, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
but, like Marshall, he is a converted starter
that gives me some hope
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
i would really like to see a Verduchi like report on relief pitchers
I can’t imagine it is easy on anyone’s arm to go out and pitch basically every other game.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Cordero - Its not a job, its an adventure!
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
by Madville on Dec 30, 2011 9:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
The Reds should just see how it shakes out
Marshall, Masset, Bray, LeCure, Arredondo, and Ondrusek should have no problem holding leads.
If the Reds sign a closer, make no other moves, and no one gets hurt, either Bailey will have to be exposed to waivers, or somebody like Ondrusek, LeCure, or Leake would have to open he year in AAA.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I think LeCure might be the odd man out to start, if it comes to that
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
some are mentioning lecure for closer
some are mentioning lecure starting in AAA
that’s a pretty large difference in opinion
they are just alike!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 30, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
night & day!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 1, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Madson would be awesome if Walt could find the money
I don’t want Cordero back, because between the money (which may or may not be “too much”), the years (more than one is too much), and the draft pick, I just don’t see any way it turns out a good deal for the Reds. He is not going to perform like a good closer, he’s lost too much stuff.
League is an interesting option, but the trade price of relievers is too high.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
The more I think about it..
the less I am able to see Cordero as an option that makes sense for the Reds.
He’ll certainly want either a two-year deal and/or the handshake agreement that he’ll be The Closer for at least the first year of any deal. Nevermind the amount of money he’ll want… I think the market is going to settle that for Cordero and I think he’s going to be a little bit disappointed when it’s all said and done.
So while Walt might be able to hold out and get CoCo at a ‘bargain’ I think it might be time (or at least by July it might be time) to start thinking of him as the aging veteran who still has some good stuff and is going to be perfect for settin up the new young closer. If he’s cool with that then I’m cool with it. Perhaps even a two-year deal.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 30, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I hope their really entertaining
the idea of Marshall as closer. It makes too much sense to me.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
Shit. They're.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 30, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
not so easy, is it!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 30, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This is getting as tiring as +1
/cue everyone asking “isn’t it” or something similar
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Yes, yes it is.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 5:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hope they sign Madson
if only so we can all start making “The Three Ma-sketeers” jokes
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
by UncleWeez on Dec 30, 2011 11:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I know it shouldn't, but this irks me
From Lance:
Andy Dalton is running away from Brandon Phillips for Greater Cincinnati Sports of Year? Why?
Criteria: “the athlete or team whose performance that year most embodies the spirit of sportsmanship and achievement.”
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
It should irk you
Latent racism is a nasty son of a bitch.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 30, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't particularly call that racism.
I can see why some people might hold BP’s actions leading up to the fight with St. Louis to be unsportsmanlike.
That would be a great argument, except the award considers 2011, and the St. Louis fight was in 2010
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Latent racism still latent.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 30, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
and BP was nothing but a model citizen in 2011
I mean I realize Dalton is a rookie and probably has less money laying around, but BP flew fans first class to Chicago, San Francisco, Arizona, and I think one other city, gave them high end hotel rooms, and took them out for several expensive meals.
He went to a little league game because somebody asked him to and he was in the area.
Apparently he is all smiles and great when the camera’s and twitterverse is looking away from him, when Make a Wish or other groups bring kids through the clubhouse, he is always happy to see the kids and very enthusiastic.
Phillips gets it. He realizes he is a lucky sonuvabitch who gets paid crazy shit tons of money to play a game with adoring fans, and he gives back to the fans who make his dream life possible.
Darren Dalton has done nothing close to that.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
And I am really impressed with BP
like I wouldn’t be rude to fans, but I would never in a million years put myself out the way BP does, I am too anti-social for that. So hats off to Brandon Phillips.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Someone (Slyde?) told a story about BP that I liked
All the players had escorts to help them through the crowd and when BP’s handler suggested they duck down a side hallway he refused, saying “One day they won’t care who I am”. Whether it’s arrogance or sincerity, I don’t think there’s any doubt that BP knows how lucky he is.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 30, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive
there’s no doubt BP loves him some BP, but he isn’t a shithead about it like T.O. or Jay Cutler or people like that
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Actually not true on Cutler
Hes terrible in front of cameras, but a genuinely good guy behind them.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 5:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
No, Cutler is actually a supreme fucking douche.
He was a miserable person in college…the kind of guy who drops the “don’t you know who I am” line at will.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 30, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
isn't that 95% of Vanderbilt?
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Roughly 73%.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 30, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
So it's 27% women?
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
by boobs on Dec 30, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Just curious, how do you know this?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 7:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We were in school together.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 30, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Arrogant and condescending has always been Culter's rep
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
'creds, totally agree on Cutler
When I was diagnosed with adult onset type 1 diabetes earlier in the year, Cutler exchanged several tweets with me and actually suggested a dietary change that solved a problem I was having with blood sugar drops.
I’m just a random Bears fan but he not only answered my tweet, but asked how I was doing. Everything I’ve read says he’s a great guy away from the cameras, and my experience is consistent with that.
darthmom: It's like sabremetrics, but for boobs.
Yep.
He might’ve been an ass in college, but weren’t we all? And he does a lot of stuff that doesn’t get a lot of attention but makes me think he’s not all bad.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Granted, my view of him is from college.
And yes, we were all much less mature then, but picking fights, throwing beers at people, and screaming at people to make sure they know who you are (when what you were was a QB on a losing football team) rubbed a lot of people at Vandy the wrong way.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 1, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure he was a jerk in college
All college football players are-my junior year Iowa won one game but several players still tried to pull the ‘I play for the Hawks’ card when they got arrested for OWI. Thankfully, that shit doesn’t fly in Iowa.
Seriously though, a month after we exchanged tweets, Cutler DM’d me to see if his advice helped. He honestly seemed a decent guy, especially when it comes to others who share his illness.
darthmom: It's like sabremetrics, but for boobs.
That's awesome to hear (and I also hope things are going good for ya!)
I hope he’s grown up a bit, since he may well be the most high profile alum we’ve got right now.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 1, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't graduate.
Ergo…not an alum.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 1, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Skip Bayless is the obvious trump card here, though.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jan 1, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
No, alum is defined thusly:
You went there, and now they are asking you for money.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
Then I guess I'm Brendan's Mom, class of '07.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Jan 2, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
That's quite a limb you went out on considering you can't have seen too many yet
but it turns out you are right
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I didn't know that "Brendan's Mom Jokes" were even a thing until a few weeks ago
but I figured if I was wrong than I would get to enjoy an avalanche of Brendan’s Mom jokes from the past while you all proved me wrong.
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
It's actually a bannable offense,
so it has to be so awesome as to supersede that codicil.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
RR secret:
It’s an empty threat. But don’t tell anyone.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 2, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Brendan said that jokes about his mom could be brought back?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I dunno
Regardless, no one has ever actually been banned for it, or even seriously been considered for a ban. It’s always been an empty threat. I think I popped up ‘tHan once for it as a joke, but he didn’t find it very funny. So I never did that again.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 3, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Don't tell anyone! That's what Bre...
ah, skip it.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
I found a large percentage of college athletes, especially football players, were fine chaps
Granted the MAC isn’t the SEC or Big 10.
Then again MAC sports fans aren’t like their tOSU football or UK basketball brethren either. #noblowhards
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
so
What was his dietary advice?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
"Swallow."
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 2, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
No bread. At all.
The doctors tell you that whole grains are okay in small quantities, but even little bits were messing with me too much. I was going nuts trying to figure out what was making the sugar spike and fall.
darthmom: It's like sabremetrics, but for boobs.
didn't Jim Day give you similar advice?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 1, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon was cool at Redsfest
My little brother, he had knee surgery a few weeks before Redsfest (baseball has torn him up at an early age, he catches). Anyway, he had to go around Redsfest in a wheelchair. He managed to get into a Phillips autograph line. When he got to Brandon, Brandon came from behind his autograph table and spent a few minutes talking to my brother, helping cheer him up over the fact that he can’t really play catcher anymore. Few other guys did that for him, but it was a very nice gesture by Brandon, really made my brother’s weekend. This is just another example of what a true sportsman is.
Respect my authoritah!
Yeah, but the sportswriters tell me he brings an NBA approach to MLB.
I don’t know what they mean, but it makes me feel weird when I hear it.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 31, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
Weird like when you used to climb the rope in gym class?
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
by darthmom on Dec 31, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i know what it means...
lots of fabulous athletes playing basketball in the nba, but way too many who love to show how they can get into anyone’s face…loved basketball as a kid, but it’s been decades since i had even the smallest interest, and this is so much of the reason…
but
Joey Votto hearts the NBA. They asked him what he wanted for Christmas:
First baseman Joey Votto already has gotten the top item on his list.
“The NBA is back,” Votto said. “On Christmas Day, I’m going to be getting that as a present. You can tell my family and friends not to get me anything.”
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Late racism.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Latos racism
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
It's one of those things though
I know it’s there and it’s going to be there, because that’s what the audience enjoys.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
It'll change. Eventually. Even in CIncinnati.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 30, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
You're right
I prefer to call it dog whistle racism. Because some people so matter what will never hear it.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why would you assume this is racism?
It seems like an argument could be made for either one of them to win that award. Perhaps Lance favors Dalton because he has done so well for a rookie and the Bengals are poised to make the playoffs or maybe he has a thing for redheads. I don’t know, but too assume racism almost seems…. racist.
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
If it is just the best player in Cincinnati
Joey Votto, hands down.
He is probably the only Cincinnati athlete, right now, who has a strong chance of going to the Hall of Fame.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
/cordero'd*
*in two weeks
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 30, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
votto treated his female preteen fan base poorly
In 2011. He is eliminated from consideration for the Lance award.
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 7:55 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
maybe he just favors him because he's white?
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Does Lance have a history of that? I don't know because I don't listen to him.
I just think it’s odd that because someone prefers someone who happens to be white to someone who happens to be black, that others would immediately assume “Racism!” If instead Lance said that he preferred BP to Dalton would you say that he likes him better out of some kind of “white guilt” or would race not even enter your mind? I’m guessing that the issue of race would not even enter your mind because it is irrelevant. I like Brandon better than Dalton for a lot of reasons — he’s a great player, he’s great with the fans, but mostly probably because I like baseball better than football, I like the Reds better than the Bengals. I assume that Lance has reasons for liking Dalton for this award over BP that have nothing to do with race. At least I would give him that benefit of the doubt over a knee-jerk reaction.
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
which is wrong
everything is about class!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 30, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
everything is about money
But a lot of things are about race
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
It does not matter what Lance actually means...
If he fails to provide any substantial rationale for why Andy Dalton is “running away” from Brandon Phillips for Greater Cincinnati Sportsman of the Year given how much better BP is at his job respective to AD’s work as a QB and how much more active BP is in the community it is probably fair to assume that he is playing on the racial undertones that have long haunted this city.
He is a sports talk show host trying to drum up listeners/callers during a particularly slow period for sports news. And unfortunately in this context (and too many others) subtle race baiting sells.
WAIT WAIT WAIT
AM talk radio is an extremely tolerant medium. I have never witnessed what you describe.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 31, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Is that Cunningham or Furman or Scott or...
There’s so many jerks, how am I supposed to keep them straight????
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 31, 2011 12:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cincinnati has the reputation it does for a reason
I’m not saying Lance is racist, but I will say that he knows how to play to his targeted demo.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Yep
I was actually stunned at the level of racism in Cincinnati when I moved here. I figured it was a Midwestern town like those I was used to in the northern states and racism was kind of a non-issue. Not so much-more of a deep south atmosphere here.
Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of wonderful and accepting people here too, it just wasn’t the culture I was expecting.
darthmom: It's like sabremetrics, but for boobs.
Especially so with the cops, the district attorneys, and the white people who buy them.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 31, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Cincinnati has a 'Southern' feel to it and
Guys like this one:
SET THE BAR REAL LOW FOR RACIAL, SOCIAL OR RELIGIOUS EQUALITY.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
While I agree that it should be BP
His bitching about his contract publicly didn’t help his case.
That, and racism.
good lord
For community service coco and jay Bruce lead the way.
It’s football season and the bengals are very, very unexpectedly playing for a wild card berth in week 17.
Maybe that has something to do with the dalton vote.
Reduce #RacismClaim, ye Paul Janish lovers!
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 7:58 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
hmmm...
liking dalton, too…also think the overall success of the bengals comes with having rid themselves of ‘ochostinko’…a hugely talented player that led the pack of idiots who wore bengals’ uniforms but had no clue about playing as a team…
Dalton ain't shit without AJ Green and that O-line
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 31, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
probably
I wouldnt expect many qb to be successful against nfl defenses sans OL and with only one WR
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 3:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
You're not praying hard enough.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 31, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Was it really bitching?
Pandering, maybe, but it really didn’t seem whiny to me.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
I love me some Andy Dalton...
But Brandon is Cincinnati’s Sportsman of the year, no contest. He’s dominant at his position, he’s a big part of his team, he has a great personality, and he does a lot for the city. He’s an outstanding example of sportsmanship, on and off the field. He has fun when he plays. Dalton’s been here for only one year, and though he’s contending for ROY, he’s a good guy, and he’s close to putting Cincy in the playoffs, he’s yet to have the same impact on the city that Brandon has.
I can’t believe Lance is saying this. Actually, I can. I unfollowed him and gave up his blog long ago.
Respect my authoritah!
The cost for League,
if we use the Bailey trade as a comparison, might be something along the lines of Heisey and Soto. I don’t like that. The M’s probably would love Stubbs, but I don’t give him up for a bullpen arm, either.
Madson would be a great fit and allow the Reds to retain a draft pick. I suspect, however, Jocketty simply waits out Coco. I can live with that. If I have to. I guess.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 30, 2011 12:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
hey turtle
taking the new CBA into account, do you have any sense of what a draft pick is worth these days?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
A front office executive in Dayton told me three fitty.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 30, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
And it was about that time JCH noticed the executive was a giant crustacean from the Paleolithic era. . .
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
by rorschach1979 on Dec 30, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to tell.
This from Baseball America:
Under the new system, each club will get an aggregate bonus pool for the first 10 rounds of the draft, based on all of its picks—each of which will be assigned a value. While clubs will not be required to stick to the value of each pick, they will be expected to come in under the overall budget number."
With international signings set at $2.9 million total per team, that further complicates things.
Also, any draftee signing for $100,000 or more outside the top 10 rounds counts toward the cap in the top 10 rounds.
Teams have less room for error, now, meaning the more high-round picks I can get, the better. Of course, that level of certainty (if such a thing exists in the draft) will cost something in rounds 3 through 10, as more singable players with less upside may have to be selected to avoid the overage tax and potential loss of draft picks the next season.
Glad I could clear that up in such a nice, concise manner. Fine mess isn’t it?
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 30, 2011 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can see CoCo
Settling for something like 3 yrs and 12 million. That would be a deal for the Reds and worth the lost draft pick.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
you really want Cordero in his age 40 season closing out games for us?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Arthur Rhodes was pretty good
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Remember Chris Hammonds?
Remember Rick White?
Remember Rheal Cormier?
Remember Mike Stanton?
No fucking thank you.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Remember the Titantic
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
by Madville on Jan 1, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cordero is alot better than those guys
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he did peak higher than those guys did
but Coco has obviously been declining since he go to Cincinnati. His fastball has lost a few miles on it. Last year he improved his control to compensate, but I wouldn’t want to bet $12M that his control will continue to make up for his declining velocity.
Plus is Coco at $4M really better than Ondrusek or LeCure at close to league minimum?
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Yes - Cordero at 4 mil is better than Oger and the Frenchman
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
My new favorite argument
Is citing the one guy out of a thousand who defied the odds as proof that another guy will do the same.
All tiny 2B will become Dustin Pedeoia!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bronson Arroyo will be Jamie Moyer
sign him to a 10 year extension!
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
4 mil a year for Cordero isn't bad
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
For one year, maybe
By 2014 he won’t be an MLB calibre pitcher
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 7:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Somewhere, Jesse Orosco is calling you a blowhard cuntmuffin.
But he’s doing it in Spanish, you know…so it’s even funnier.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Jan 2, 2012 7:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'd take him for 1 year, $6 million
withmillion with a club option for 2013 too.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 30, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's too much
But that’s probably what will happen
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
I think $4 million is probably more appropriate, but I really just hope they don’t have guarantee him more than 1 year.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 30, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Heisey is pretty much untoachable
unless the Reds get a crazy good starting pitcher (which they aren’t looking for) or a better outfielder back.
It would be pretty moronic to trade Heisey for a relief pitcher, unless the Reds get a real starting left fielder.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
those look really good
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 1, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
'lil bacon hollandaise over the top, and oh yeah..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 3, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
jch prefers his eggs unfertilized
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 1, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Heisey sucks at life and baseball
Frazier is better than him and will beat him out of LF and then kiss his girlfriend.
Assuming Quentin doesn’t come in and run it.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know why everyone is in love with Heisey
Frazier is a much better prospect and Heisey is a 4th OF bench bat. The guy had plenty of ABs last year to prove he can’t hit an off-speed pitch.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
The defensive diferences may offset the offensive differences.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I care nothing about LF defense
I want a rock solids masher that’s below average on defense. Maybe Marty will realize how good Stubbs and Bruce are.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
you want somebody who is below average on defense
i would think I would want somebody at every position who hits and fields above average.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I want someone that can hit #4 and protect Joey in the line-up
Jay Bruce has not been consistent enough at the plate to do that.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not 2008 Quentin
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha.
Jay Bruce <<< 2002 Barry Bonds. Maybe we should sign him.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 30, 2011 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How would Babe Ruth make it around the bases though?
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 31, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
sign dead Walter Johnson!!!
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Could still OBP better than Alfonso Soriano.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
I dunno
Frazier is a decent LFer.
But…he hasn’t played that much OF. He’s played more LF than any other position, but has played a lot more IF than OF. I just don’t see the Reds handing the starting job to him. His career path looks like a utility guy, and I think that’s what they see him as.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
that is why i used the word may
I have no idea what kinda outfielder Frazier is, but I know Heisey would be an average to above average center fielder, so assuming he doesn’t go all Chris Dickerson on us he should play pretty well in the corners.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I am confused?
“He’s (Frazier) played more LF than any other position, but has played a lot more IF than OF”
Frazier makes contact and gives good MLB ABs. But he’s no #4 hitter. Could be that Devo Mescaline might just sneak in there. But my guess is that this is THE YEAR OF JAY BRUCE.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
I don't think anyone is in love with Heisey
though I like him a little more than I probably should; but I think the real issue is that no one else is in love with Carlos Quentin.
But really, my comment was about how strongly you state your case. You didn’t start out with Heisey being a 4th OF, because that’s actually reasonable. BTW, Quentin has had 6 years to prove he can’t stay healthy. Or 3 years out of 6 has proven to be well below average.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Heisey is the new Soft J in these here parts
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 8:00 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
In some very tenuous way
this is not too bad a comparison
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Except that Heisey actually was above average last season.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 31, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's a terrible comparison.
Heisey may or may not be a passable starting LFer, but
1) Most people realize that
2) He has always been far better player than Janish.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 31, 2011 11:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but if he's just talking about a (somewhat) unproven player
that fans want to see given a shot – from that angle it is a comparison. Not at all a comparison in their playing abilities, obviously.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
next in line to assume the throne....
Todd Frazier! Mark it
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 3:45 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
Many MLB teams would commit to starting Heisey full-time in LF.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 31, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
26 HR, 2.2 bWAR, above average defense, 108 OPS+ over 530 career ABs...
That’s plenty good enough to earn the right to start for me. I think Reds fans have become so transfixed on the concept that LF is a black hole and needs to be improved since traditionally LF has been an offensive position, and that has clouded the fact that the Reds have way above average offensive production from two other positions (2B and C) that are historically defense-first positions.
Heisey/Frazier would be just fine by me.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
and Heisey is a good enough hitter to probably keep an MLB job for the next 2-4 years
I don’t think that is true about Janish.
"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks
I can't wait for Heisey to struggle so you can rub it in everyone's faces.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 31, 2011 11:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He dislikes Heisey now that he's mainsgtre
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 31, 2011 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dave disliked him
before disliking him was mainstream.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Thank you
I’ve always thought he’s a AAAA hitter.
Well I hope he proves me wrong, or Walt signs “The Showcase!”
Did anyone else watch the YouTube video on Cespedes? That guy is the fucking boss. I honestly wouldn’t mind signing him for 6 years 30 million, but he’ll sign for higher than that.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 1, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
There are a lot of people saying now
That he should probably start in AAA because he’s probably not quite ready to hit MLB pitching.
If this were the 2010 Reds, I’d be all for taking a chance on him, but since we’re in the Votto Window I’m not really interested.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I voted Brad Lidge under the assumption that he'll be cheap.
Anyone have an estimate on what his contract would look like? Seems like it would be significantly less than Madson.
I'll guess 1 year, $4M
He only pitched 19 innings last year, and doesn’t really have his fastball anymore. I’d stay away.
Wow, I didn't know his velocity had taken that much of a hit.
Down below 90 on average last year. The more I look at it, the more I’m thinking I would also probably stay away.
With how much Theriot keeps coming up
he seems like an inevitability for the Reds. I don’t think either would be negatives, but if they’re giving him and Cody Ross money, I’d just as soon they blow the wad on Madson.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 30, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions
This from Fay, via MLBTR:
“The Reds have spoken to Ryan Theriot’s representatives, but nothing is close. "We’re trying to get a hitter first," Jocketty said, and that hitter would have to be an outfielder according to Fay.”
The Braves, Rays and Mets reportedly are interested, too.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 30, 2011 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Deduction = Theriot is not a hitter.
I don’t think TheRiot want’s to come here, nor do I want his Cubs filth stinking up our infield.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
he's got the double whammy of shittiness
having played for both the Cubs and the Cardinals
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I'd take an Edmonds clone for the Reds OF right fucking now
Reds need more OBP
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 3:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Creative GM thought:
Let Billy Beane sign Cordero to a $12MM/2-year deal. Then Beane trades Cordero immediately to us for a fringe prospect. Reds keep their a supplemental pick in the 2012 draft. Beane gets a free prospect.
#prophet
Would that work?
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
I believe you have to wait 3 months after signing a free agent before you can trade him
Although I can’t find anything to back that up.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Perhaps the rules have changed, but we quickly flipped John Wetteland in 1991:
November 27, 1991: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers with Tim Belcher to the Cincinnati Reds for Eric Davis and Kip Gross.
December 11, 1991: Traded by the Cincinnati Reds with Bill Risley to the Montreal Expos for Willie Greene, Dave Martinez and Scott Ruskin.
We did not do well in either trade, methinks.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 30, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
But he was brought in via trade, not free agency.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Not necessarily
Belcher was a decent starter in our rotation, Eric Davis Superstar was all but done as Superstar, Willie Greene was supposed to be a stud slugging 3rd baseman, and Dave Martinez was a decent 4th OF. Only loss was Wetteland, you know the guy who had Mariano Rivera as HIS set up man. But we still had our “Nasty Boys”, for one more season, I think.
by Jack Armstrong started an All Star Game on Dec 31, 2011 7:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
not that easy is it?
Or isn’t it?
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 4:21 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think this defeats the purpose of the compensation pick
It is Compensation for the loss a good player. If you don’t lose them then you shouldn’t get compensated.
I bet you cheat on your taxes.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
you're a republican too
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 30, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
If there ain't a rule against it, I say exploit the loophole once for Reds #prophet, thereby exposing it.
That’s what Bill Veeck would have done.
IIRC, not much different than when the Reds worked around the expansion draft a few years back by having pre-constructed deals with the expansion GMs whereas those GMs would select a Reds-coveted prospect, then immediately trade that prospect back to the Reds for a AA prospect they actually desire.
But Yossi has a good point in that a Cordero signing might be differenter cuz Francisco would be a FA signing, not a trade nor draft selection.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 31, 2011 3:53 AM EST up reply actions
I don't cheat on my taxes.
That’s what I pay my accountant to do.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 31, 2011 3:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Donald would be dissapointed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphiYdfd-Tg
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 31, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
our tax code as always been very grey
it’s not as black & white as folks make it out to be
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 1, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
but if it's grey
doesn’t it have to be black and white?
by pack_fan on Jan 1, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
heisey...
i’m not in any way saying heisey is all we should want in LF…however, considering age, speed, power production, and the ability to outhit jonny gomes by about 70 points, combined with the fact that getting anyone else who is both proven and better than heisey, well, it seems to me that the reds probably have an awfully good deal out of all really possible solutions for next year right now…also, the team is now pretty short of outfielders on the roster, too…and, just as important, heisey is still very affordable…with all the stuff about ‘who to go get’, etc…well, i’m looking at it all, and really, just going with heisey is the idea that leaves me most comfortable, and having frazier here to back it all up…maybe even turn it over and win the job with some consistent hitting himself seems like a decent idea however it works out…
is this all one paragraph on non mobile sn nation screens?
Heisey is a good 4th OF on a winning ballclub.
Sadly the refs have poor OBPs projected for starting CF and LF, and for 3b if Rolen is injured/playing in pain.
That’s to say nothing about cozart and devin…(fingers crossed)
Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today
by obc2 on Dec 31, 2011 3:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Stubbs should be fine OBP wise
The projections I’ve seen have him around .335-.340, which I think we’d all take in a heartbeat.
Projections don't win ball games
Making contact and laying off the low and away breaking does.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
BOOM
That’s the truth, but I think Stubbs will be alright.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 1, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Considering he plays good defense and is quite cheap
yeah, he’ll be fine there for a 6 hitter.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Mads sobers up, burps out some profound syllables,
and retreats back to his cave of miscomprehended diatribes, complete with A and B cup women in NotMuch Brand Spandex.
It’s hard not to be a fan.
Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches
Petey it all just polymath...You and I could run this team basing all of our acquisitions and roster moves on the following:
I KID YOU NOT
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
At least your team probably wouldn't go bankrupt
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Isn't there a reply function on this site?
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