Worse than we thought it would be
"Cubs to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today."
I'm not happy about losing Torreyes at all.
5 months ago
jch24
835 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Torreyes reminds me of Pedroia
I’m not happy either.
by Snake the Jake on Dec 23, 2011 10:40 AM EST reply actions
Pedroia is like the Jamie Moyer of position players
There are plenty of similar minor leaguers that profile like him, but so few of them become good players.
Pedroia also showed more power and patience in the minors.
I never heard of or at least have forgotten who Torreyes is.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
isn't it?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
5 foot 7 2B that absolutely raked in his first two years in the minors
Probably would’ve been around 12 in the RRCP rankings?
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
Torreyes probably won't be anything close to what Pedroia is but
he had a darn good season as an 18 year old last year. He’s always going to be underrated because he’s small.
by Snake the Jake on Dec 23, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
THE FACT THAT I'M DRUNK AT 1:09 PM est HAS NOTHNG TO DO WITH THIS
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
did you put pants on yet?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Is it possible the Reds got Marshall to agree to an extension
There was quite a bit of debate thats why the holdup in announcing prospects.
#prettyplease?
Upsetting, to say the least
I was relatively confident they’d be more or less throwaway prospects. Sappelt I don’t care much about, but Torreyes could actually develop into something useful.
There better be cash considerations and an extension.
so wait a minute...
2B was already the organization’s weakest position, and they put Torreyes in this deal?
This stunk like poo from the start, and it just seems to be getting worse.
I can’t wait to hear they signed Marshall to a Scott Downs’ sized extension, too.
WALTER!!!!!!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, he rarely "scoops" trades like this, so I have no idea whether to trust him.
But the fact that he doesn’t indicates to me that he wouldn’t be saying this unless he has legit information.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Oh, I agree with that
he’s just a smug little prick
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
He's an RR mod?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
I’m 6’4 and “little” ain’t no way to describe me.
Smug as fuck though.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
that's not what she said
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
and you have what as a basis of comparison?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
so you've seen jch naked?
and you’ve seen other dudes naked?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Still happy with this trade
Five years of control of Wood isn’t worth anything if he stinks. And Sappelt is no loss.
Torreyes is a great guy to have in the system and fun to root for, but he’s a lottery ticket. Small, little power, doesn’t walk, already playing 2B at 19. Insane BABIP last year. I wish he was staying, but I’d rather hang on to Henry Rodriguez.
Marshall has been really, really good. Even if there’s no extension I like this.
by ken on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
really?
I couldn’t be any more in the other camp.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I don't think there's any doubt that the 2012 team is better off with this deal
Which is what I want.
I think you have to be very bullish on Wood and Torreyes to think that we’re getting ripped off.
I'm still very high on Wood, yes.
What worries me is that it appears we’re paying the Cubs as if he was already signed for 3 more years. Marshall’s a great upgrade for sure, but this is a serious overpay.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
If you high on Wood right now, don't tell us about it
and give him the attention he deserves!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
ha!
I’m also wary of relievers who are coming off of back to back 70+ appearance seasons.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Is there a study on this that caused you fear?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I remember it being mentioned in specific relation to Masset and his struggles last season.
I’ll see if I can find it.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if there is a big study yet
Lots of people have spent a lot of time looking at starting pitching injuries and flame outs because they are much more high profile. Everybody in baseball still remembers Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.
Not nearly as many people remember Scott Williamson.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
/Rob Dibble'd
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
There is no way we get three years of a stud reliever for Wood and Torreyes
You can argue that relievers are overvalued, and I’d agree. But like I said, I’m getting impatient and want wins in the Votto Window.
I’m interested why you think Wood’s 2011 was the fluke, rather than 2010.
by ken on Dec 23, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
This is the other side of me
We’ve waited a LONG time to make a real run, and the opportunity sits before us with the unsettled nature of the division. Go for it, I say.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I mean I get that at the moment an ace reliever will do more than a starting pitcher who is 7th on the depth chart
but it is highly likely that at least one of the five starting pitchers will miss serious time this year. It is nice to have one or two Major League ready starters to step in when that happens.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Who can realistically step in from Louisville if that happens? (serious)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I wonder if Lecure will get stretched out again...?
Also, I’m sure there will be a Kevin Millwood-esque signing to fill in AAA spots.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
i don't see the Reds stretching LeCure out
he found a home in the bullpen, and they left him there last year.
They left him there when Chad Reineke made starts.
The Reds organization seems tag and label players and it takes a lot to change that label, and in this case it is probably a good thing.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
D-Train!
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 23, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it is way too early to label Travis Wood as a AAAA player
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
That's true.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
He's had one REALLY good game
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Also, the Indians don’t count. They suck.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
he also pitched really, really well in the playoffs after Volquez sharted on our dreams.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
that was more than a shart, my friend
if Volquez had filled out the #PoopLog for that “performance” of his, it would read something like “I just pooped! Freaking enormous amount the size of which has never before been seen. Soft blobs with clear-cut edges passed easily. Possible diarrhea.”
Brevity is the soul of wit.
by Heeringa on Dec 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
672452567123890253 / 10 pain for fans and career
Brevity is the soul of wit.
by Heeringa on Dec 23, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm a touch smarter than most give me credit for ;)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
he said, as he balanced his foot on a dog's back while trying to tie his shoe
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How am I holding the beer and cigarette though?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Cup holder belt holster
and behind your left ear.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
One of my favorite trick is to show people how to put a lit cig behind your ear
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Michael Jackson tried that once.
Macauley Culkin was never the same after that.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
this is correct
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
dude
that ain’t hard
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
TWSS
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
a year ago it was too early declare him a guy who would be a mainstay in the Reds rotaiton for years.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
because of every other healthy year he's pitched.
I’m not as high on him as I was before last year, sure, but I still think he’s capable of being a 200IP mid-rotation starter.
He was a 2nd rounder, so people liked him then. He was the Minor League POY after a ridiculous season, so people liked him then, too. He had a great (if not spectacular) first season in the bigs, and I liked him then.
What has he done that Bailey hasn’t done?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
He probably isn't as good as 2010, and isn't as bad as 2011
nobody would be shocked if he puts up several seasons of 200 innings with an ERA in the mid 4’s, and if he puts up one or two really good years with an ERA in the 3’s.
Bronson Arroyo was a very valuable pitcher.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
he's got a long way to go before you can make the Bronson comps
Wood hasn’t been that durable. Arroyo is virtually indestructable
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
unfortunately...
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Prehaps we need to put him in a big industrial press, like at the end of Terminator
And then, when he comes back for the sequel, he will be good!
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
"There is one more ship."
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a prospect guy at all, but from what I remember there was a scouting consensus that doubted whether he could do well in the bigs
Due to mediocre stuff and smallish frame. I’ll admit that he looked damn good in 2010. But when the league adjusted this year, they teed off. He still did respectably with walks and strikeouts, but he got killed when hitters made contact. That gives me significant pause.
Was Wood injured last year and I forgot?
No, but the one year in the minors where he got beat up was the year he was hurt.
That’s what I meant by that.
I think the completely irrational idiot in me also wants to believe that his career arc will be much like the guy he throws like and works out with…Cliff Lee.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Which one minor league year when he got beat up do you mean?
Cuz he stunk in the minors in 2007, 2008, and 2011.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
2007 and 2008 were most likely due to a shoulder injury
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
this is what I was getting at.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 24, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Or Wood was a second year pitcher
and most second year pitchers struggle.
A year ago I was against the stream because there were a lot of folks around here who felt that Travis Wood was a lock to repeat his 2010, and some (mostly highlifeman21) were even saying he would be the ace. This year everybody things he ceiling is that of a 5th starter because of a bad 2011.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
or
Homer’s break down (or breakdown, ha.)
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
it isn't second year persay
it is a lot of young pitchers struggle early in their big league career.
Roy Halladay.had an ERA over 10 in his third season.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Travis Wood doesn't have anywhere near the stuff that Roy Halladay has
Try again
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
if you think i am arguing that Travis Wood could be as good as Roy Halladay you are misinterpreting me.
what I am saying is that not every pitcher who has a respectable MLB career found or maintained immediate success when they got to the Majors.
If you want better comps, Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
check Cliff Lee, Tom Glavine, Ted Lilly, Johan Santana, etc.
there are plenty of examples of it. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen to Wood, but it could.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Greg Maddux had an ERA of 5.61 his first full season.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
This has digressed
If there’s a good comp for Wood – based on stuff, size, etc. – that bounced back after a bad second year, that could be interesting. But right now we’re just listing a bunch of random good pitchers.
not to nitpick (since this is all really theoretical and impossible to pinpoint)
but that’s why I listed Lee, Glavine, Lilly, and Santana…small-ish LHP with good location and changeups.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
word!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
punctuation!
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
you asked for good pitchers who struggled early in their career.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
seriously.
Look at Cueto’s first 2 years (in a larger IP role, sure). Wood still has better BB/9 and K/BB ratios, with similar WHIP and ERA+.
Both are small framed guys (I think Cueto’s put on about 20lbs since he first got called up, though.)
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
the thing is, the IP matter
Not only for durability concerns, but also from the “Can he keep it up once he’s been around the league a time or two and hitters have tape on him?” perspective.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I know, I know, I know.
Look, Wood hasn’t shown he’s a stud yet, at all. It’s just that they’re selling low on him when there’s a decent chance he can get better AND when there are others in the rotation who have had more chances, done less, and have no options and fewer years of control left (Homer).
It’s less that I’m going to keep beating the Travis Wood drum and more that I don’t understand the decision to cut bait on him right now.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I get that
If we could’ve shipped out Homer instead of Wood, I’d think about that. But he’s got fewer years of control and probably questions about his attitude. I’d guess that Homer has less trade value than Wood.
I'd rather we keep them both, and Sappelt, and Torreyes
and re-sign Arthur Rhodes.
This is really, really putting the pressure on Chapman to be a legitimate, healthy, successful starter this season (and for him to pitch more innings than I think I’m comfortable with).
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
if this was the price for a good reliever, why didn’t we just pay for one in FA? Relievers are fetching ridiculous hauls of talent in trade.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Take two steps back and look at the 'ridiculous haul' that it took to get one of the best relievers out there.
I mean, really, honestly take a look at those three baseball players. Not asCincinnati Reds but baseball players.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say this one was "ridiculous"
though it was a lot, considering it got a reliever for one year.
Clearly, there are two camps on this issue.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
C'mere, ya lil' happy camper. Let me tussle your hair and tell ya something.
This trade didn’t get us ‘a reliever.’ It got us a great reliever for yes, one year, but the year that we are best in a position to make a run at the World Friggin Series.
If Dave Sappelt was going to play 140 games for the Cincinnati Reds in 2013 it was going to be because Joey Votto walked and Brandon Phillips was traded and Dusty and Walt retired and it was now time to go with cheaper younger players. I suppose Dave Sappelt would be a nice player for those rebuilding Reds to have in 2013 but damn, have we been fans of a middling-to-terrible small market team for so long that we’ve forgotten how to get out of the shower and stand naked in front of the mirror and tell ourselves that by the end of the evening we’re going to be having sex with a beautiful woman?
Walt’s trying to get us to the World Friggin Series in one or both!) of the next two seasons. COMMON!
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
TWSS
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
BTW
I woke up this morning and poured myself a cup of coffee and took the dog out for his walk and I realized that I meant 2014.
It would (maybe) have been kinda fun for root for Dave Sappelt in 2014.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 24, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
/Sandusky'd
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this
I love Wood FWIW, just because good LHP are hard to come by.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
"What has he done that Bailey hasn’t done?"
Pitched well against teams other than the Pirates?
by Brian B on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I guess this is what it all comes down to
If we can compete and win a WS in the next couple of years, I doubt any of use will care about losing Torreyes.
by wishfuldrifter on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
but I don’t know that we’re that team yet. I don’t think Sappelt was going to amount to much, but this is Sapping (get it?) our OF depth. You have to think an OFer is going to be added at some point, right?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Danny Dorn!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, and so does Fay
RT @realpgibby @johnfayman So with getting rid of Sappelt, Think the #reds will go sign a FA outfielder?//pretty much have to
I know. Doing this deal and signing Beltran would have caused me to run naked to Cincinnati tonight instead of driving.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
so, at least the city was spared
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if I'd have to pay the toll for 2 axle or 4 axle vehicles.
/Looks down
I’d guess 4.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Is is really streaking...
…if your wangdoodle is so small that no one can see it?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
QUENTIN!!!!
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
They've got to.
If nothing else, I’m glad that this makes it much more likely that Frazier gets a roster spot, which I’m glad about.
But this also pretty much guarantees that they will have 5 OFers on the team, because if Heisey is the starting LFer, and Frazier is the only backup, then there’s no backup CFer, and that is a thin OF.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think Heisey is still the backup CFer
They can work it so Heisey can play center when Stubbs gets a day off, with Frazier/NewGuy playing LF
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
That's possible. But again, if that's the case, they are definitely going with 5 OFers.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
true story.
I’m really pumped to have Marshall, but I’m also really unhappy with the price tag. There better be something we don’t know about.
I love getting Latos, and I love having a shut down setup guy (closer?), but if this is the “all in” it’s kind of a diet all in.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Golly, they get the best available SP, one of the best LHRP in MLB...
…and shed salary doing it…and it ain’t even Christmas yet, and you think the Reds approach has been “diet?”
I don’t think it’s reasonable to grade the off-season in its entirety before it’s complete.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
this is a solid point
although, fwiw, I don’t think we’ve shed salary now that Marshall is in the mix. His salary all but negates what we shed in the Latos trade.
my comment was made assuming this is what we get. You’re right that we should wait and see. Oversight on my part
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
yes, but
if Marshall closes, then the money budgeted for a closer is available to get something else.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Step 3: Prophet
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
wrong holiday.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 24, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Fraizer, and Phipps.
If opening day were today…
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 23, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see them doing that
They will have a backup CFer, and it won’t be someone who has a regular starting job elsewhere in the lineup. If Heisey’s the backup CFer, he won’t be the starting LFer.
We went through this last year. Some thought Heisey would be sent down after spring training. But he was the only backup CFer, so I knew he was making the team. Others suggested that Bruce could play CF if Stubbs needed a day off…but that’s just not how Dusty does things.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
just hopeful
they don’t go the Fred Lewis route
get your ass out there and pop em in the mouth, and if that don't work knee em in the nuts
Is he available?
What about bringing back Dontrelle Willis?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
maybe
They have faith in Phipps.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Sean Marshall can play left field!
by the finest muffins on Dec 23, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
managers should do that more often
most pitchers ought to be able to handle 1 at-bat in LF. Most of the time it isn’t even hit to them.
Now, if we use Marshall as our permanent left-fielder, he better get a lot of Ks, since there won’t be anyone in LF.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
It just seems like an overpay to me
Sappelt wasn’t a world beater, and we don’t know that Torreyes will amount to anything, but it’s still 2 decent prospects and 5 years of control of a decent pitcher for 1 year of a reliever.
by wishfuldrifter on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I'm bullish on Torreyes, probably in an irrational manner
My biggest issue is that good 2B are hard to find IMO, so we’re pinning our 2B hopes on HRod or the FA/postition switch market.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Does Billy Hamilton not projects as a 2B in the majors?
by wishfuldrifter on Dec 23, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Dunno, honestly
And that’s a great point – if the Reds see Hamilton ultimately being a 2B it makes this more palatable.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Yeah, and I disagree that 2B are hard to find
I think they’re easy. Internally, you often find guys (maybe like Hamilton) who end up switching from short. Externally, there always seem to be Mark Ellis-types that can be signed without spending a ton.
I thought of that after hitting post
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
This is why you have 237469827365 children.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's a real possibilty
his arm is fringy for short, some opinions I’ve seen think he can stick at short though
This trade could be an indication that they've signed him to a twenty year deal.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
literally
he’ll be playing for the Reds for his whole life. Until he dies.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
GQ last month was complaining about Bobby Bonilla's contract,
which pays him a million a year for something like 30 years. I think that’s actually sort of a brilliant contract, especially because it ends up taking care of the player for his whole life. And if you invest it well, it’s easy to pay. But the Mets invested it with Bernie Madoff. Stupid Mets.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Good one Bobby
Thats why he is on the poker tour, and not on tour with the Canseco brothers.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 23, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Now you don't have a replacement for BP
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
I'd say he could have been here in late 2013 or early 2014
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
That would be the absolute best case scenario.
A guy like that, undersized and who relies so heavily on BABIP, will inevitably have an atrocious half-season (or longer) at some point, stalling his progression.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Luis Castillo made the majors at age 20
And was playing every day at 23. If Torreyes is a success, he is going to be a Luis Castillo-style success.
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. Luis Castillo's atrocious half-seasons came once he was already in the majors.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure we do.
We’ll take one with the sammich pick we get for not re-singing Cordero.
#profit
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to agree with Ken here
It’s a real possibility that we only gave up a 5th starter, 4th outfielder, and a AAAA infielder. While these classifications are certainly not set in stone, it’s definitely a real possibility. Marshall instantly becomes our best reliever. No doubt a guy who pitches only 60 innings isn’t a game changer most of the time, but guys like him do give you the chance to shut down the other team in close games. I’m starting to wonder if relievers actually might be undervalued in this day and age (by the fans at least). This is a Votto Window™ deal, and in that way I think it makes some sense. I’m worried though, just like everyone else.
by pack_fan on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can someone fill a brother in on Torreyes?
I’m sorry I haven’t been keeping abreast of his minor league career.
Slash line of 398/457/855 in Dayton
As Ken has said, a lot of it is BABIP driven, but the dude doesn’t strike out much. 19 SO in roughly 300 PA.
I’m probably over-reacting, but he was a prospect, even if he wasn’t terribly projectable.
I thought for certain they’d be garbage players.
As an 18-year-old, hit .356/.398/.855 in Dayton last year
Turned heads in the Venezuelan league in 2010, hitting .390 there, and worked all the way up to Dayton. Good defensively, and only struck out 19 times in 278 ABs last year. As disciplined of a minor league hitter I’ve ever seen.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
From RSC's year-end writeup
Ronald Torreyes hails from Venezuela and his name is kind of like a Spanglish portmanteau word for “Bull Eyes.” He certainly had the bull eyes this season, as anyone who’s a regular Farmer’s Only Reader will know. Torreyes started the year in extended spring training, but joined the Dragons in June as one of the youngest players in the Midwest League. Over the remainder of his season prospect mongers thrilled to the 18-year-old second baseman’s microscopic 6% K-rate.
I don't think it's fair to accuse Walt of undervaluing Torreyes.
I think what’s happening here is we’ve discovered the December 2011 value of Travis Wood.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST reply actions
Good point.
We tend to overvalue the people we know. It could be that a pitcher who couldn’t stick in tr majors, a neat hitter who hit .500 in spring training but barely .200 in the majors, and a very young A level prospect are worth one of the very best relievers in all of MLB.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I'd look at it the other way.
Marshall is a beast. If the tables were turned, and Marshall was heading from the Reds to the Cubs for a small, soft-tossing lefty with Wood’s numbers, would you be excited? Well, would anyone apart from Justin?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
the BCB thread loves this trade for them.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Well,yeah, this trade.
I’m saying that Wood for Marshall straight up wouldn’t excite me either if the tables were turned.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
doug said he wouldn't trade sappelt for marshall straight up.
that’s when I realized the prospect worship had gone a little too far.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Wait, so you're saying a guy who runs a site devoted entirely to prospects might value them a bit too highly?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think there is actually quite a simple conclusion to draw from this.
If there is hand wringing about one person in every trade: Stewart in the Rolen trade, Grandal in the Latos trade, Torreyes in this one, that doesn’t mean that Jocketty is making dumb trades, it means that teams expect something decent in return for a known quantity.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I admit, I hated the Rolen trade when it happened
I was very wrong, because I overvalued Stewart.
Still, I am pissed that my little Ronald is now a chicken fucker.
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was pissed about the Rolen trade
because I didn’t think Rolen had 2010 left in him. I thought we were getting purely 2011 Rolen.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
nahhhhhhhhhhhh
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Just a tad, yeah
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's ridicuous
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
/vintage dougdirt
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I used to read him pretty frequently
now I don’t.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there is nothing said there that isn't said at least as eloquently here.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
fuckin' A right
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
by UncleWeez on Dec 23, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
/lifts right leg
/rips fart
/tip-toes to bathroom
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hey, thanks for reminding me about Westshore a few days ago
Went with my dad yesterday. Twas awesome
Once, I was so drunk that I shit my pants. On a boat. That was interesting.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
i've never shit my pants due to drinking
although once i went on a bender while on antibiotic; that was bad news.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I don't think he's dumb
He clearly knows quite a bit about prospects, and Reds prospects in particular. He just gets carried away.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Dumb is a very generic term for me
He overvaules prospects in my opinion. That’s dumb to me.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Not as often as he used to
I’ve seen him comment a few times in the past year.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Being upset about losing Sappelt is dumb
and Torreyes is so far away from the big leagues, I can’t really be upset about losing him.
Sappelt is a young poor man’s Chris Denorfia.
.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Fay is also taking all this unusually hard.
Complaining about trading your number 20 and 22 prospects for a bonafide, proven MLB pitcher is a little weird when the goal is to win now.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, to me the biggest issue is trading away useful starting pitching depth
I wouldn’t even be that upset about Wood being traded in a deal like this with the way the depth looked a year ago when the reds had (in no particular order) Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, Wood, LeCure, Chapman (if you want to count him), Willis, Maloney, and Bailey.
I just assume that probably one out of the current six will probably miss most of 2012 with an injury, be it spending 3 to 4 months on the shelf with a shoulder injury, or missing the entire season with Tommy John.
I also assume one out of the six will wildly disappoint (or in the case of Arroyo, pitch as expected) and will force the Reds to remove him from the rotation.
Plus the fact that Chapman’s season will probably end in August.
And the other short term, 2-4 week injuries that are likely to occur throughout the season.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Don't be too sad for us:
The Reds had Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, Wood, LeCure, Volquez, Chapman (if you want to count him), Willis, Maloney, and Bailey.
This year they instead have Latos, Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, LeCure, Chapman (if you want to count him), Bailey, Tom Cochran, Ben Jukich, and likely at least 2 more fringe prospects/vets he signs before/during/after ST.
Honestly, hardly any difference in depth in my book. Plus the added bonus of not ever having to pitch Voltron, Wood, or Maloney again.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Juckich is still in the organization?
and i really don’t think Wood (if he is healthy, always an if for a pitcher) will be as bad in 2012 as he was in 2011.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
also
Maloney may end up being equal to Juckich and Cochran, but I think Wood is probably vastly superior to those guys.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
EXACTLY.
Much ado over nothin’.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Maloney is ahead of Jukich and Cochran
those guys should never ever pitch in MLB in any capacity.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Splitting hairs, IMO...which was all I was saying.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
no, he didn't play in the US this year
He’s a Seoul-sucker now.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
That sounds right.
But rotowire still lists him as a Red.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
they suck!
They should check MLBTR once in awhile.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Their reporters are everywhere.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
obtuse
we seem to agree on we shouldn’t cry over the spilled milk of Sappelt and Torreyes.
fistbump
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Torreyes might turn into a great player
but I have little fear over losing a teenager in low A ball.
So much can happen between now and when he is a big leaguer, even if he turns into a Hall of Fame second baseman I won’t be upset, and even if he becomes a superstar, who knows that might not happen if he stays with the Reds.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
carried away is putting it nicely
dude takes it personal when you challenge him on prospects
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
He's not dumb. I just think he gets a bit irrationally attached to certain players.
He also tends to overvalue youth, something I have been guilty of as well.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
you're not even in the same ballpark as him
irrational attachment and overvaluing is his M.O., though
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
dougdirt loves him some prospects
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Dougs site is needed to keep up with the whole system.
You read a lot of first hand accounts in the comments.
He does value players weirdly.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 23, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
weirdly is being kind
i like that he keeps up with the entire system, and there’s a lot of detailed reports, but dude flies off the handle when you challenge him
and all prospects are untouchable
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Wow! Really?
I’ve liked Sappelt since he was in college, but for Marshall straight up? Without a second thought.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 23, 2011 1:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd do Sappelt and Torreyes straight up for Marshall without even thinking twice as well.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I don't think it'd be an overpay if the third prospect here wasn't as good as Torreyes
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 23, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but
I know you like him a lot, and so do I, but he’s a tiny 19 year old who hasn’t made it out of A ball.
He could be awesome, but he has a long way to go to be useful. So in some ways, he’s the least valuable guy of the 3.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
he could stall out in AA and never even spend signicant time in AAA
or he could make it to the majors, and be a Gookie Dawkins type.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
It'd be different if he was a 23-year-old who hadn't made it out of A-ball
But he was one of the youngest players in the MWL last year and tore that shit up. He rakes.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 23, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, this.
We’ve been on the other side of this deal before. You know Jose Guillen can hit. You hope Joe Valentine is as good as advertised and that maybe One of Aaron Harang or Jeff Bruksch turns into something serviceable.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
righto
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
who is torreyes?
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Joe Torreyes?
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
For the record, I pronounced it like that until around August of this year
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
Some single-a guy in the cubs organization
by thevole on Dec 23, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
HAH!
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
The next Pedroia, didn't you read the above comments?
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
It's highly unlikely that he's the next Pedroia
Both players are 5’9", play good defense at second base, don’t strikeout often, and have surprising pop.
by Snake the Jake on Dec 23, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Torreyes doesn't have surprising pop. He'll probably be lucky to hit 10 HRs
He does a lot of things well, but power isn’t one of them.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yes...only had 3 hr's last year.
I think he could hit more if he gains weight/muscle. He’s listed at 140 lbs.
I guess I’m basing the “surprising pop” remark on watching him play. He smoked a lot of hard line drives. I never saw him homer though.
by Snake the Jake on Dec 23, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
He definitely has gap power.
But for a guy who is 5’9" at best, but more likely 5’7", he probably doesn’t have too much good weight to gain, unless he wants to lose his speed/range at 2B.
It’s a real catch-22
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I suppose this ensures that Frazier is going to get a spot on the 25 man
and will be given the LHP portion of ABs in LF?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:54 AM EST reply actions
I'd rather have him there than Sappelt, honestly
Sappelt has kind of a Norris Hopper vibe to him, doesn’t he?
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
Sappelt had gap power
Hopper couldn’t hit the ball out of the infield.
by Brian B on Dec 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he didn't have to!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hopper had a lot more speed though
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
we're talking about feel, stop nitpicking
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
This deal does seem to open some opportunity for Frazier.
Utility player who can play a decent enough LF and fill in everywhere else ‘cepting catcher,CF and Pitcher.
Yet I don’t get the feeling that the Red’s (or maybe Dusty) are all that excited about my boy Todd.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
oh damnit, not Ludwick
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
/shootsself
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Or Jim Edmonds!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
yeah!
And Jay Bruce will OPS a bajillion!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Also, in the original Sean Marshall thread, a few people said Rosales was the last person to win the "Reds player I most want to kick in the dick" award.
Edmonds was here more recently. Could someone please explain how that happened?
Easy: We don't acknowledge that he ever was a Red.
by FordhamRam on Dec 23, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Tell him what he's won, Bob
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That made it 4 minutes until it green'd?
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
I wasn't under the impression that Edmonds was more recently
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
I wouldn't mind that
Frazier is very solid in LF, at least defensively.
But I think this means Walt is going to find us a Jonny Gomes type.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Walt says
He’s not bringing back Gomes.
Coco Crisp does sound possible, though.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
if the cardinals get beltran while we get crisp
imma puke.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
go puke over there then
While the rest of us celebrate getting Latos and Marshall.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
why would we want crisp?
really?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
i'd rather have Juan Pierre
yeah, I said it
AND, he could play LF
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Can't hit, Can't run, Can't field.
What is there to like about him?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
he has two first names?
in two different languages?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
by UncleWeez on Dec 23, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
nothing really
nothing at all
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
You obviously did not notice his last season
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I don't want Crisp nor Pierre
however it wouldn’t surprise me if we ended up with Pierre
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Lord
Ankiel or Pierre, or Ludwick. Someone who won’t be an upgrade on Heisey but will play 75% of the games anywhere and cost all our remaining dollars. And bat too high in the order.
Steeling myself.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
obtuse
it would be very disappointing to enjoy the Latos and Marshall acquisitions, only to see Walt go all schizo on us and then piss away money on a LF that shouldn’t start but will, and The Dusty will bat anywhere but where the dude should bat..
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
you know The Dusty would start Coco Crisp
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
maybe just for depth
The Reds’ farm system is very depleted now. Sure, they’ll get new talent with their draft picks, but they need players who are major-league ready, or close to it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Our farm is in no way depleted
I bet it’s still top 15 after both of these trades
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno about top 15
Maybe, I don’t follow other teams’ farms that closely.,
But the upper levels – the players that can help out right now – is not so great.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
we were top 10 before the Latos trade
I wouldn’t be shocked if we were still top 15, though a lot of the talent is in the low minors
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I think that's concerning
IMO, depth is an important part of winning, and one that’s often overlooked. Maybe we’ll luck out, like the 2008 Rays, but it’s more likely we’ll have to replace some players due to injury or ineffectiveness.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
nah
Travis Wood would have been absolutely no value to the Reds in 2012, just ask everybody!
#groupthink!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I wouldn't be surprised if we were bottom half now
Alonso, Grandal, Torreyes, Sappelt, Boxberger. That’s a LOT of talent to lose from your system. Some systems don’t have that much talent to begin with.
All your talent being really far away makes it less “valuable.”
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Yeah
The 2006 Reds best upper level minor leaguer was Chris Denorfia, who is on par with Sappelt.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I suppose if we let Cordero walk
they could draft a bunch of college guys who are closer to the majors to try to reload the system. I’d prefer some high upside arms, but that’s just me.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Why would Penny Marshall be good at baseball?
I thought it was an acquisition to boost the spirits in the clubhouse.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
watched family man recently and learned this:
Tea Leoni had a small roll in A League of Their Own. She played first base for Racine.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Yep. She's in a LOT of scenes, actually.
Easy to spot if you’re looking for her.
by the finest muffins on Dec 23, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Oddly enough, yes.
So I guess I underestimated her.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 11:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Better have an extension
Losing Sappelt pisses me off. Losing Torreyes too. I’m leaving guys, i’m becoming a cubs fan. Oh god help me.
Cingrani for 2012 Closer!
Is Sappelt your favorite player?
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Are you asking if he has a mental handicap?
Or just being crass?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, let me know how that works out for you
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 23, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I apologize
Is it 14 or 16, champ?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I didn't like marginal players like Dave Sappelt when I was 15
Dirt Bikes!
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
i did
but the Reds were so terrible when I was 15 that I was grasping at straws.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Really I was 15 in 2002
Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn had burst on the scene.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
God damnit
In 2002, my son was 1.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
in 2002, Crolfer was 1.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Where is my gun? God damned Alzheimer's
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Only if I remember where he's hiding
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
i just cleaned my shotgun last night
it’s a Winchester 20 gauge, model 12, made in 1953. Been in my family since shortly thereafter. sometimes i’ll cock it even though it’s not loaded just to hear the sound. i’d like to figure out how to make my doorbell play that sound, but i’m far too lazy to actually make that happen.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Reprise: somehow this seems appropriate again:
Can I confess something? I tell you this as an artist, I think you’ll understand. Sometimes when I’m driving… on the road at night… I see two headlights coming toward me. Fast. I have this sudden impulse to turn the wheel quickly, head-on into the oncoming car. I can anticipate the explosion. The sound of shattering glass. The… flames rising out of the flowing gasoline.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
this works here
but I am not recing it again.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
No need, I just wanted Heeringa to put his comment in context.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
do what now?
he was talking about woods. woods and hunting. hunting and guns. guns and woods.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
not in jch's crawlspace?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
no, i meant 1
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Have fun over there. You should fit right in.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I feel like there's more to this than we currently know
Either an extension for Marshall, or a deal for another outfielder. I don’t know much about Torreyes, but I’m more surprised to be losing Sappelt just for the depth at outfield. I know Frazier’s still around, but have the Reds ever indicated that they see him as an outfielder?
Frazier saw some action in LF at the MLB level last year
and he was the AAA primary LF before they made the switch to get Alonso some reps out there, IIRC.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I think they see him as OFer
In fact, he was listed as one on the Louisville roster.
But he can’t take Sap’s place. Sap was a CFer. I think this might be a vote of confidence in Denis Phipps, among other things.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Votto Window(tm)!!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
He's a 4th outfielder.
But, I suppose better than a Ryan Ludwick type.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Is it?
I don’t even like Ludwick, but I think he could put up better ML numbers than Chris Heisey could.
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
Maybe, but I doubt it.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Ludwick in 2011: 237/310/363
Ludwick in 2010: 251/325/418
He is going to be 33.
Heisey has slashed 254/316/455 in 2010-2011, and will be 27.
I don’t think Ludwick is much of an upgrade.
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not really a fan/advocate
but I will say this for Heisey, he looks like a classic World Series MVP-type to me. You know that guy that is mediocre to poor for the entire season then hits like .700 in the series.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
He's got the first part down, heyo!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
/Renteria'd
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
indeed.
This is getting interesting quickly.
We still need a closer, they still want a backup SS, and I’d sure as heck like to see them be aggressive in looking for a LF (nevergunnahappen.)
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
We also thought a big trade for an ace was never going to happen.
The Reds aren’t bullshitting this year. I’m interested to see what happens.
by sexsalad on Dec 23, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
we don't have anything left to trade now, though.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Hrmmm...
If we trade for a LFer, we could still send out Heisey, Stubbs, Jordan Smith, Todd Frazier, Kris Negron, or Travis Webb.
Yeah, we may be just about out of viable trade chips.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Travis Webb is a trading chip?
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
According to twitter insiders.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Homer, and Billy.
If it was going to be for a Lfer who is a real upgrade.
by Eastwindquinn on Dec 23, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Would we even have 5 starters if we traded Homer?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Chapman is ready to go and there is no reason to doubt that he is not an MLB ready starter!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Save your replies for someone else Yossi!
you already know I agree with you :P
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
This.
We may not like the deal, but at least we aren’t bored!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they already came out and said he wasn't going to be.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Mo Rivera!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
No they didn't. Fay reported an "insider" saying they weren't considering him for that role.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are in fact thinking of him as the closer.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
truth!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
In which case the Reds just saved the $5m or so they would pay Cordero and netted a first round pick.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or signed Marshall to an extension and have a relatively cheap, good closer for the next 3-4 years
And honestly, if that’s what happens, that would make me love this deal. Instead of giving CoCo 5-7 mil to be bad, he gives Marshall $3-5 mil a year for the next 3- 4 years to be a good closer for little money.
A market inefficiency is clearly allowing “unproven” guys to close. If the Reds get in on that and save a lot of money, they are very smart.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that's the plan.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Why not use him in more important situations?
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Dusty.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why shouldn't they?
very little discernible splits, filthy stuff, ability to pitch in high leverage situations.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I hope they do...
I just have a feeling that he doesn’t have what Dusty considers “closer” stuff and will be a setup guy.
he's definitely got the stuff
if anything, Dusty would be worried about the “mentality” which I think is idiotic because setup men often pitch in higher leverage situations than closers
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
It just seems to me that Dusty seems like the type..
who thinks a closer needs to throw 95+ and blow guys away with heat. I have nothing to back this up, just seems like the type.
Well, here's the thing.
If Walt doesn’t acquire another reliever, Dusty pretty much has to use Marshall as the closer, right? Who else is he going to use?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Chapman
(ducks)
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have said this would be the case
but it’s too late now. We need Aroldis to be a starter.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
there's no way, now.
He’s got to be a starter.
No Wood, no LeCure, no Volquez from our “surplus” of preseason 2011.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
A woman don't fetch me no ducks.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
What else are women good for?
(ducks)
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
We know he ain't gonna go closer-by-committee.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
It seems really dumb to me that they'd pay this much for a set up reliever
when all along they’ve been talking about needing to acquire a closer.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
it seems weird that they'd go out of their way to say they weren't going to use him there though
unless that source is Gapper or something
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Lots of "insiders" might have no idea what they are talking about
Or maybe they strategically let that slip to affect negotiations. Who knows.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
"Insiders" had Travis Webb as a Cub yesterday.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
Check it: If Marshall were the Cubs closer last year, with the same exact stats, but 30 saves instead of holds, we would have had to pay 2x this price to get him, right?
I think Walt is manipulating a small inefficiency in the market by going after a quality bullpen arm without the closer logo.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dig, bro
I haven’t read the entire thread.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Dip?
That’s dumb. You are overvaluing condiments.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
he can't count
like BubbaFan
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
EVERYONE BOOKMARK AND REFER TO THIS POST
Fay is fucking clueless. How many MORE times do we need him to be wrong? I don’t know what he does for a living, but he’s not truly following the Reds, he’s tweeting as much as he thinks is necessary to keep his job. I would bet that this story hit RR before he even thought about misspelling some retarded ass “that can’t be possible, the Reds can’t afford this” response. He’s stuck in 2003, and that is his problem not ours. Honestly, I view his twitter account as a parody of sportswriters from yesteryear.
SIDE NOTE: Dear Fayman, if you would like to refute this, have at it. My email address is available. We’ll go have a burger and talk. I DARE YOU.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
you are DRUNK
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Fay types just fine
he just can’t spell.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
that is exactly why i can judge.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
The difference is that sometimes you proofread.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Fay's bigger problem is the industry has passed him buy
I would never even think about a job that required me to write for the public, if I do not have a proofreader.
I can proofread and write really slow as much as I want but I will still make many many more mistakes than normal. I understand the basic rules of grammar but I have weird hitches. Like I just will use the wrong form of there/their, to/two/too or use unnescary apostrophes If I am writing as much as he needs to without an editor I will make a number of embarrassing mistakes.
The Fay’s dsylexic, and I don’t think that was a huge problem for him in 2000 when everything he wrote went through an editor before it was published; except his editor probably cursed the day he was born.
You do have to wonder how much Fay’s English teachers laughed, and freshman comp professors cringed when they saw he was going to write for a living.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Fay has a purpose and it isn't analysis.
he is pretty good at keeping us up to date with transactions and what not, especially during the season. Fay provides news and quotes.
And FWIW I hope the Reds don’t make Marshall the closer, because with as good of a pitcher as he is, I would rather be flexible with him and use him in the 7th or 8th when shit hits the fan.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Though he claims not to be a Reds fan because of his job as beat writer.
I think he exhibits many of the same traits as Reds fans from the West Side, which he happens to be.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
You know he is a Reds fan
there is no way he isn’t.
He doesn’t break the rules and cheer for the team from the press box, but you know he likes the team to succeed.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Or, because he is a Reds fan from the west side,
you know he likes the team to fail so he can point it out. Maybe he comments on his own blog posts?
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
You apparently never read the learned comments of the
so-called “Cheviot Sports Authority” on the Fyablog, c. 2009
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
I have not read that, but there are no sports in Cheviot
ergo, he is the authority of nothing. Well, there is the little baseball/soccer field by the library in Cheviot…..
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
There are number of drinking establishments in the 1.2 miles that is Cheviot
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
and Westfest and the church festivals
#WestsideBestSide
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
it also has the market cornered
on angry German folks.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
And angry hillbillies
with giant WEBN car window stickers right above the spoiler on their Cavalier. Hey, I’m from there, all of my extended family still lives there. It’s full of ’billies.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
/TheWalmartOnFerguson'd
I think that must be where the People of Walmart site must take all their photos.
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
Hey, what's that suppose to mean?! I'm from the Westside!
AND, by the way, we Westsiders write Westside as one word! AND we pronounce Cheviot as" Chiviot." I don’t know why, we just do!
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
Haha, maybe I painted with too broad a brush.
But people from the WESTSIDE seem to complain about the Reds no matter what they do. And people from the East Side are too busy waxing their mustaches to care.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Fay is giving the Westside a bad rep
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
my Dad's side of the family is from the West Side
I judge them.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
you just need an excuse to go to sQuatman's
I see this post for what it is
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Instead of Ludwick...
Why don’t we go pick up this guy to be our 4th outfielder? Maybe even a dual purpose as Closer and 4th outfielder?
by TophersReds on Dec 23, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I hear he's still available!
At least that’s what MLBTR reported once!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think trading Sappelt has any effect on who the starting LF will be
’Cause it was never gonna be Sappelt.
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well, sure
but it just made me mindful that we’ve traded away two guys from a position of need. Not that I disagree with the trades, I was just wondering if it was a Heisey vote of confidence.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
And a Frazier vote of confidence
Maybe we see a platoon-ish arrangement, given Heisey’s reverse splits.
Some would call this consolidation of resources to improve efficiency.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Interested to see who the 5th OF is going end up as.
Frazier has to get slotted in as the 4th for the time being, with Heisey potentially taking over for RF/CF if Bruce/Stubbs need a day off.
Phipps maybe?
Heisey in LF for a full season is bad news
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I agree with this
If Walt’s going all in, he needs to go all in. No half measures, Walt. We have one more gaping hole in the lineup.
where's the thread with people who don't know who torreyes is want want to mock him?
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
bleedcubbieblue.com
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well, I'll be tipping one to Ronald Torreyes tonight
Poor little guy is a chicken fucker now.
I am a huge Torreyes fan, I even went up to Dayton specifically to watch him play. Being tiny with limited power is not the best path to the majors, but I still am really high on the guy.
I don’t mind losing Sappelt at all. Heisey and Frazier are much better options, so I don’t see any future for Sapp here or for that matter, much of anywhere).
But Ronald? Noooooooooo! Not Ronald!
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions
but Sappelt's tiny with limited power, too!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I know
But I have an irrational love for Torreyes. Plus, Torreyes is really fast, and Sappelt is not. And Torreyes never strikes out, while Sapp K’s like a normal hitter. Those are real advantages, and precisely the type of things you need to do to be successful when you are small and weak.
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
whenever i see your handle i imagine "Kazenzakis" is russian for "curtains"
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
see kids?
THIS is what you call humor!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Whenever I see yours, I think "boobs".
amy winehouse is a non-good representative example, however.
... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.
by supergrover on Dec 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
i imagine she would have been a good representative of roastbeefkazenzakis though.
by 'tHan on Dec 23, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If they warmed her up pretty well, I might still make a go at her.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think this really is a test of the FO's talent evaluation
If Walt and co. are good, they are taking advantage of the market inefficiency by trading overvalued prospects, who have a fairly slim chance of making it to the bigs. They are converting that to current major-league talent to hit the Votto Window™.
Simultaneously, they are identifying certain prospects that they think really do have a good chance of excelling at the ML level. Hamilton appears to be one of those. IMO, the way you be a STL or TOR is that, instead of putting all your eggs in a one year basket, like FLA, you leverage success into permanently higher payrolls, by keeping new talent in the pipeline.
It’s really hard, which is why everyone doesn’t do it. You have to be better than the other professionals at knowing who is going to pan out and who isn’t.
I hope Walt is.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Well, FWIW, he has been very, very good at trading prospects who never made it for established players (including, it seems, the Rolen trade)
The only case where he got it egregiously wrong was trading away Dan Haren.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
And even in that trade, he was kind of right about Daric Barton
Barton was a monster prospect who, while having a ML career, has been pretty disappointing (Barton is in many way an excellent comp for Alonso – compare Barton’s one year in STL to Alonso’s 2011 – and Daric was a couple of years younger).
But yeah, he miscalculated on Haren
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think he knew Haren was legit.
I think he just seriously miscalculated on Mulder.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Truth
and he has had a lengthy career as a GM, every GM with a long makes trades than turn out to be horrible for him.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Agree. It's easy to underestimate how hard it is to get a deal pulled off.
You’re working with imperfect information on who else is bidding and how much they’re bidding. You can take a risk and bid $0.80 on the dollar, and maybe just get lucky. But if you don’t, you’re wasting the opportunity. I’d rather pay the $1.20 and be assured that it gets done.
The problem is that we only have $0.45 cents.
And we’re planning to use that to re-sign Dontrelle Willis.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the thing:
I don’t mind losing any of the 3 players. I loved Torreyes but he’s a tiny 19 year old in low-A ball. Hardly a sure thing.
But all three is an overpay, plain and simple. One year of Sean Marshall isn’t worth that much, and it sucks to pay too much, even for awesome things.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I seriously think that Marshall signed an extension.
Walt’s too smart for this.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
He has to have. Still, that shouldn't affect his trade value that much.
I also think the Cubs need to be paying his entire 2012 salary.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
the reds could also use starlin castro
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
This is a cost-cutting/cost-avoiding/rebuilding deal for the Cubs.
I’m gonna be surprised it Theo is paying for any of Marshall’s 2011 salary.
I’m also going to not be surprised if there’s no extension.
I’m also not going to be surprised if there is an extension and many people here bitch about paying a set-up man $6M per.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be surprised now too, only because they didn't announce that as part of the deal
But I think the Cubs are more concerned with rebuilding than saving money in 2012. They’re apparently willing to pick up a ton of Soriano’s contract just to move him, so I think Theo is just looking to acquire young players at this point.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
You're probably right.
But I bet there’s not a GM in MLB who will pick up the phone to talk about Soriano unless they’ve been told “Yes, we’ll eat some of his contract.”
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
exactly.
Even though Marshall has been a stud (and I’m still wary of relievers coming off back to back 70+ appearance seasons), I don’t like giving up this much in a trade.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
also agree.
if this is all it is, then fuck Theo.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
I'm not so worried about that with Marshall since he's a converted starter.
The fact that he was a middling starter who gained velocity and bite on every single one of his pitches after moving to the pen tells me that he’s not a huge risk for regression or injury. At least no more than any other pitcher.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
To me, it really comes down to Chapman.
They’re going to have to take the training wheels off him and let him go now.
If he’s healthier than they’ve let on and capable of giving us 150IP as a starter, then yeah, I’m good with this.
If he’s not, and we have to watch Kevin Millwood, Josh Fogg, or Tom Browning’s right arm throw late summer innings because we need depth, I’m going to be pissed.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Chapman is kicking all kinds of ass in Arizona right now, throwing a wicked change up, and pounding the strike zone
It feels so nice to be back to normal
hopefully MLBTR will send a reporter out there to check it out.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
The other day I was pondering FA starters who would be cheap
and decided Kevin Millwood would be my preferred project at this point.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
He looked sorta okay for Colorado last year
He wasn’t going deep into games at all though.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
and his GB% is a bit concerning
I suppose we could do worse
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Someone woke Johnnysmith up...
via Twitterz:
News coming soon. Reds will have at a minimum of one Coco on the roster, perhaps two.
per that fake-ass johnny smith twitter account:
News coming soon. Reds will have at a minimum of one Coco on the roster, perhaps two.
i really wish tHan were here. He'd have an excellent response to this.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Yes, she looks ridiculous but there's still a touch of 'lovely woman' there.
I bet she’s a wonderful hostess.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
and several surgical touches to go with it.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
ew, surgery? GROSS!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Yeah, I'm not even mad about the Ed Hardy
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 23, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
guys chill
this is Johnny Smith we’re talking about. If he’s right, it’s a total coincidence.
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
maybe the Yankees are trading us Ice T!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I got five bucks that says I can clear 'em
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
OK, so assuming the Reds sign a free agent OF, who is your #1 choice?
Possibilities:
Andruw Jones (I actually like this idea, as he could hit 20 HR in 300 AB in GABP)
Juan Pierre (god please no)
CoPatt (I may have to become a Cubs fan like OGC if this happens)
Coco Crisp (I wouldn’t hate him if it was for tiny money)
Brad Hawpe/ Ryan Ludwick/ Cody Ross/ Rick Ankiel/some other 240/310/390 bag o crap
Luke Scott
Lastings Milledge (this would be a classic Jim Bowden move)
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions
Pass.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
pass unless Crisp is available on like a 1 or 2 year deal at no more than $5-6m per
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Kookoo for Coco Crisp
God damn, I don’t want him on my team, if only because I’m already sick of this fucking joke
1 year less than $4 million
otherwise I’m not a fan of a Crisp signing.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Coc Fucking Crisp can blow me
The Reds don’t need another retread loser.
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
Coco's .314 OBP over 700 PAs could do Hiroshima-level damage to this offense.
No way to keep Dusty out of the Coco.
BTW, did Dusty and Herman Cain go to the same pimp academy, or what?!?
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If Walt is going All In for the Votto Window™, he might as well make another trade for Seth Smith.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think Set Smith is just "Brad Hawpe in 2009"
I have little confidence he will be much away from Denver. He certainly has not been so far (257/332/418)
And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Better than Heisey away from GABP
Smith is no great shakes, but I think he’d easily outperform Heisey. And he’s LH, which I like. I think, given extended time, Heisey is going to suck against RHP.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
who do the Reds have left to trade?
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
With Wood and Volquez traded Homer Bailey became more indispensable.
no way am I willing to go into 2012 with a rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake, Arroyo, and Chapman, and not have at least one extra starting pitcher around.
Remember that 40% of lasts years projected opening day rotation did not even pitch in April.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
If Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Leake, and Chapman survive spring training healthy
he can be the long man and wait for a spot to open up.
I will make an avatar bet that the Reds use more than 5 different starting pitchers before June.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
we get it Justin
you’ve posted this same argument in the last 5 threads about 7 times each
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
because it's true that we cannot trade Bailey
unless we receive an MLB-ready starter in return.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I'm not saying it's not true
But he’s been hammering the point home like fucking Thor.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Also true
then again, I still see some comments about trading Bailey, so I guess that’s why he keeps hammering.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
trading Bailey right now would be dumb
and it isn’t going to happen
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
yep
he’s longman bound it looks like, the team is looking like they’re going to be almost forced to use Chapman as a starter.
I don't think they'll make Bailey the long man
because of his weird warm up routine. I honestly have no clue what they’re going to do, though
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
at least it's baseball related
He could be posting about glory holes again.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
and people keep saying T Wood isn't important for 2012
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
That's because he's not all that important for 2012
How’d all that pitching depth work out for the Reds last year? Stockpiling mediocre pitching is not a recipe for success.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
If the Reds lose one of their starting five for the season in April or May
Travis Wood will be strongly missed. He may only be a 2 WAR pitcher, but he at least won’t be embarrassed every 5 days.
Krebs and company will be.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
I understand what you are saying, and yes,
Wood is a better replacement starter than Milwood or Chad Roenicke, but hedging your bets against injury is not the best way for a team to try to WIN NOW. Trading redundant prospects to fill areas of need is.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
I just assume one starting pitcher will get hurt, and another will fail
Unless I have a top for like Philly has now, or like what the Braves had in the 90s, I would always try to have a rotation that is 7 deep.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
And you think that's a viable way to run a roster in the NL Central in 2012 on $75MM?
If this was a video game – even one with injuries – you’d make this trade, because it’s the best allocation of available resources to meet the goal. The goal is a WS ring, not to win one more game this year if 2 of our starters get hurt.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
a completely valid point, without a doubt
but the offseason isn’t over, and there are SP depth type guys out there if you look for them. If the sacrifice is having to go find a #6 or #7 emergency type starter, I’m doing the Marshall deal 9 times out of 10.
nah, not like Thor
Justin doesn’t have the strength to lift Mjolnir
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
the Reds view END as Rolen's back up and a budding superstar
they would think trading END hurts them in the short and long term.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
So now we should all try to love him, too.
Not for what he COULD be, but for what he is: a childeater.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
nom nom nom nom
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
I think the problem is
they need a backup SS who can play some OF. Unless Walt is serious about considering END as outfield depth.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
not veteran enough
Is The Riot still available?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
we had those 10 years ago
didn’t really work to well in Cincinnati.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Timothy Thomas'd
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, Andruw Jones is where it's at for OF depth
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Please no. Just no.
This is one case where I don’t care how good/bad a guy is, his personality and worldview make me loathe him. No. Please no.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't you think we need someone to balance out the fact that Joey Votto is from Canada?
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Jordan Smith has become a forgotten man around here, it seems.
It’d be nice if he could return to 2010 form.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
i actually completely forgot about him.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Luke Scott certainly has an interesting view on things
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I don't mind losing them
Sapp and trreyes are decent players but are both redundant. It’s a steep price but not bad.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions
surely you must!
that sounds awfully cramped.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
#whitepeopleproblems
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
welp, it's official
#Reds acquire LHP Sean Marshall from Cubs for LHP Travis Wood, OF Dave Sappelt and minor league IF Ronald Torreyes.
He's got 10 months to get an extention signed.
Let Walt do his job.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm gonna celebrate by listening to Marshall Mathers all day
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Just listen to Marshall Crenshaw,
that will only take a few minutes.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 23, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I think it’s gonna be Gomes. #ashnarronlovechild (We used to say that!)
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Olney tweeted a link to Wood's BBref page
I didn’t realize Wood’s Home/Away splits were so markedly different.
Oh well. Bob, Walt and the boys are all in, so I’m all in with ’em. Let it ride!
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
he didn't suck in Citizens Bank Park!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Let's give Micah Owings a shot in the outfield.
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
12 gauge?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'll let him hold the apple, i'll use my shotgun i mentioned above to knock it out of his hand
Brevity is the soul of wit.
let's sign him and trade him for Dunn!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Jammy Blog with the rare bit of useful information.
The 40 man is now at 36 players. Kinda makes worrying about DiDi Gregorius getting added seem a little bit trivial.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Some guy on twitter says the Reds' payroll is at $71m now
that can’t be right, can it?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
maybe before all the arbitration cases are dealt with
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
ugh, I hate this
This is too much to give for one year of a relief pitcher.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He's not just 'a relief pitcher.'
He’s one of the better ones out there.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I mistrust relief pitchers in general
They have a regrettable tendency to fall off a cliff unexpectedly.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
If they signed a similar pitcher on the free agent market,
he wouldn’t come this cheap. The Reds are spending the assets they have, which are prospects. And not spending the assets they don’t have, which are dollars.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I still think they paid too much
We may not need the players we gave up as much as we need Marshall, but that doesn’t mean we should overpay.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
wow, great thing I'm not working today.
Kickin’ BO and fried chicken farts would’ve made today a bit uncomfortable!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions
CleanUP
does any one know if we’re working on the 4th batter? Votto protection was a pretty big problem in 2011.
and i hope Rolen isn’t the only answer. im not convinced he has 120games in him next year.
Nice thing about this is that Walt hasn't given up any "X" of the future.
Still have H-Rod, Hamilton, Soto, etc.
Hmm, I liked Torreyes more than all 3 :(
oh well.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Drag us along for four days for THIS?!?!
Honestly, is Wood really that much better than Sappelt and/or Torreyes? It’s been disingenuous to refer to this trade as Marshall for Wood and two minor leaguers. Those are two legitimate prospects, one of whom has MLB experience already and had a good chance of being on the 25 man this year.
This is a terrible overpay on Walt’s part. Still, you do what you have to do to win. Unlike the Latos deal, by giving up Torreyes, we are depleting the pool of candidates to help the team post-Votto. And by not signing Beltran, Sappelt had to be considered a decent shot to win the starting LF job. (Heisey is better used as the 4th OF, in my opinion.) Now that Beltran is a Cardinal, there’s no legitimate upgrade on the market. For a team that has just dumped all their chips into winning now, they’ve left themselves a huge hole in a place where they at least had a marginal solution. I’m not happy about this right now.
Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.
Losing Sappelt doesn't bother me
But I do like Torreyes.
Problem is, I don’t think the Reds should have had to include both those guys for Wood. I think this trade, like the Latos trade, was a slight overpay. I would have liked the Latos deal better if the Reds could have gotten another player back in the deal, or given a lesser player than Boxberger.
Other teams know Walt is going for it, so they’re all driving as hard a bargain as possible with him.
Either way, the Reds are a much more competitive team for 2012. They’ve added a potential ace in Latos, and one of the best relievers in baseball in Marshall. So overall, I’m OK with it.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
If they are making multiple trades like this, that tells you that it isn't an overpay.
It is the market price. The Gio Gonzalez trade wasn’t that different.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I still find it baffling/humorous that the consensus (beyond just Bowden) is that the Nats made a good deal, while the Reds overpaid
When in fact the prospect packages are fairly similar (the Reds gave up a bit more), but Latos is better and cheaper.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah
Latos throws more strikes.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Red Reporter: Still disagreeing with Jim Bowden 10 years later.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is a good point
The Nats package was pretty comparable. Apparently, people are no longer willing to trade MLB talent for less than copious amounts of minor league talent.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Coco and Coco!
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Walt is going all out to earn that lump of coal in his stocking this Christmas
I’ve seen a LOT of the Dayton Dragons games (Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Mesoraco, etc…) and the single most impressive hitter i’ve ever seen bat for the Dayton Dragons is Ronald Torreyes.
I’d personally consider him one of the most “untouchable” prospects in their system if i was allowed to give such a label to our minor leagers.
He’s a bit small, but has a quick/compact swing that absolutely zings the ball like nothing you can imagine for such a little guy (140 lbs) and he plays good defense and has good speed.
He hit 0.356 last year while only 18 years old in A ball, and did just as well in 2010.
Has great patience for a young kid with as many BB’s as K’s in the minors.
If we traded Torreyes for Marshall straight up i’d consider it a bad trade for the Reds.
But to give away Torreyes, and T Wood, and D Sappelt…..giving Walt a lump of coal might be a bit generous.
certainly
but he’s right that it’s an overpay
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Meh
I dunno. I like Wood more than most, but the other two are not top 10 prospects. I’d say all together they represent a pretty good amount of value.
But Marshall is one of the three best relievers in the game right now. I’m pretty damn excited about that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 23, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
All this overpay talk sounds silly to me.
We gave up some talent to get better talent. We traded some future unknown quantity for two known quantities. It’s a beautiful thing.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think Latos was an overpay
I think this is a slight overpay
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
If they are overvaluing our prospects
I’d say you are overvaluing Marshall. Top-3 in MLB?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Aside from Johnny Venters and Scott Downs, who's better?
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
I bet 10+ relievers are better than Marshall next year
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I was just talking about LH RP
he’s easily in the top 5, arguably in the top 3.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Oh, well if we're talking about owning a top-3 LOOGY
then why should I even be excited.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say LOOGY
I said LH RP. Marshall isn’t a LOOGY, and neither are Venters or Downs.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
If he is pitching in all situations or batters
why does it matter what hand he throws with? Why would you narrow it down to LH pitchers if his being lefthanded is not a consideration in how he is used?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
you think Scott Downs is better than Sean Marshall?
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
is Krebs still in the system?
It would’ve been cool to have the Syndrome and the Cycle in the same bullpen.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Dec 24, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
he pitched in Louisville last year
I don’t know if he was let go in an of fseason transaction.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 25, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
ah, WAR and stuff say Marshall is ace reliever
but still, an average starting pitcher is more valuable than a reliever says WAR.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
good god
What is it good for? Absolutely NOTHING.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe
But i do like Torreyes more than just about any other hitting prospect (Cozart, Frazier, LaMarre, etc…)
I am not ready to be optimistic about Yorman or Duran yet.
Vidal I have high hopes for.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I really really really want to see some in-game power from Yorman
dude is just full of tools but it hasn’t really translated yet. He can hit bombs in BP, but hasn’t really been able to hit for much power in game situations
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Tell that to Mike Leake in 2010.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Tell me that in a couple years...
when Marshall is pitching for another team, and Torreyes is tearing it up for another team.
No World Series has ever been won by a prospect.
Mickey Mantle II could be sitting on the bench in Dayton, it won’t make a bit of difference for the Reds this year. And they are trying to win while Votto is a sure thing.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
So we should trade Hamilton, Corcino, and Vidal for some MLB talent then.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Well, no one said they should liquidate the system.
But they are trading a portion of their long-term assets to fulfill short term needs. Teams either spend money or prospects. And the Reds don’t have the money to buy free agents. Walt had a good quote today when he pointed out that the Reds in part draft for talent that they can trade. As I recall that was given as justification at the time for drafting Alonso despite having Votto in the system and Grandal despite having Mesoraco. My point is that it doesn’t matter how well Grandal is raking in three years because the Reds needed a SP, not a C. So they spent some of their assets, and its our own fault if we got too attached to them.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 23, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Fellows you've got to give up something good to get something good.
Is that so hard to understand.
A guy who is a fair to middlin’ prospect and isn’t going be to be at the MLB level can be traded for a better than average MLB pitcher NOW….di if your team has any chance at all at contending.
Prospects are not:
Yonder
Frazier
Devo Mescaline
T Wood
But Torres is a prospect so….
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
Yeah, Frazier and Wood are suspects at this point!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah Wood is so suspect that he was the main cog in the Sean Marshall deal
Frazier has shown beyond a doubt that he can hit MLB pitching and that he can more than aptly play:
3B
2B
1B
LF
and in a pinch SS
So wrong again Justin!!!!!
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
SUCH AN CUNTFAG AGAIN MADVILLE
I CAN’T PUT IT IN ITALICS BECAUSE IT IS THE SUBJECT AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE MESSAGE!
-Love J
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
at leest I kan spel
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
by Madville on Dec 24, 2011 6:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
define couple years..
and do you really honestly truly believe Torreyes will pan out, or are you just being a prosepct fanboy?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
If Torreyes goes on a crazy tear, and does a Johnny Cueto single A to AAA in one season sorta thing
at best he is big league ready in 2013, and that is highly highly unlikely, 2014 or 2015 is much more likely.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
therefore I should care about this maybe in 2014?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Probably
and only if he is wearing an MLB uniform.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
dougdirt?
are you pulling a jch and do you have a new user name?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Apropos to nothing
I’m drunk at 1:00 PM and about to go xmas shopping. This will surely end well.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
i'll give you one guesses
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
I am taking a train up the hudson this evening
and I was looking forward to the view of the scenic hudson river valley but I just remembered since it’s winter and the train leaves at 5:15 it’s going to be dark out before I leave Penn Station and now I’m kinda bummed.
So we're getting Coco and Coco today right?
That’s what the twitter guy sez….:)
And didn’t Walt say he thought he’d have his closer signed by the end of the week?
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
I hope there is no extension yet
The going rate for closers seems to be in a freefall. Let that play out, then work to extend him.
Poojols’ gut-feeling hunch prediction of the next trade: Heisey and Francisco to the Orioles for Adam Jones.
by poojols on Dec 23, 2011 1:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
the Os want a top notch pitching prospect in return
we do not have those
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Those two guys were never going to crack a 25 man roster.
I don’t care in the slightest. Great move Walt!
crashtestnipplechip citymoron
by Excalib8 on Dec 23, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
you should join me over in the mocking thread!
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Reds next moves
- H. Bailey, B. Hamilton + 2 lower prospects for Hanley Ramirez
- Sign R. Oswalt for 1 year
- Start getting fingers sized for World Series rings
I guess I get frustrated about trades like this
when I read that teams sign guys like this for $1.1 million and give up no prospects.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:01 PM EST reply actions
that guy's 35 and is two years separated from a 1.93 WHIP
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Marshall's making 3 times as much and is two years separated from a 1.45 WHIP.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I know what you're saying, but you always pay more attention to what a guy has done recently
Than what he did 3 years ago
he had quite a nice season last year, too.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought we were talking about Marshall
Yeah, Sherrill would be nice to have, but he’s 5 years older than Marshall, and even in last year, not as good
my point is
is Marshall 3x the salary, Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes better?
I don’t think so.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not, but it makes sense in the Votto Window
We may regret this trade in a few years if Torreyes turns into Pedroia jr, but for the next two years, I think you have to make moves like this.
"sense in the Votto Window" to me would be
signing a guy like Sherrill or Rhodes and then using Wood/Sappelt/Torreyes as help in trading for a LF who’s a significant upgrade.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
And I'm sure Walt considered that
Problem is, I’m not sure where a significant upgrade in left would be at this point. Maybe Ethier? Much as I like Smith, I don’t think he’s that much better than Heisey/Frazier
Hell yes.
I’ll wager you that Marshall has a higher WAR next year than those 3 combined.
Avatar bet?
not a chance.
There’s a decent chance none of them play a MLB game “next” season.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I am guessing Wood will have the oppurtunity to make at least 20 starts
And he will make at least 10.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
If the Reds had needed him to make 10 starts in 2012, they wouldn't win the division anyway
by poojols on Dec 23, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i'm not making the list of 5th starters on good teams signicantly better than Travis Wood
strong reserves is part of a good team.
It was why the 2010 Reds were so good.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
How much WAR do you think they'll provide the Cubs before FA?
less than Marshall provides the Reds?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. Isn't that right? Wouldn't you rather have a guy who's six years younger and has never had a bad season than a guy who is 35 and teetering? Wouldn't you pay that guy three times as much?
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Arthur Rhodes was a fuckin' badass for us at 40.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't single him out because he's the outlier.
I singled him out because he’s currently a free agent.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
If they were both on the free agent market
I’d rather pay Marshall $3M to pitch in my bullpen than pay Sherill $1M. Marshall is more of a guarantee, with Sherill is more of a bet.
The question is do you think Marshall is worth $2M, Travis Wood, and David Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes more than Sherill (as KMB scooped me).
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
and 3 years seperated from an ERA of .65.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
it is amazing he was an All Star in 2008 with an ERA in the 4's.
either he had a really shitty second half, or the O’s just had really really shitty players in 2008.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
Ty Wiggington was the O's All Star in 2009
by poojols on Dec 23, 2011 2:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Have you looked at the numbers?
Over the past 2 seasons, Sherrill has faced approximately the same number of RHB and LHB. In ’10, his OPS against when facing RH batters was 1.223 (since Babe Ruth, 3 players have had individual seasons with an OPS that high).
Marshall, on the other hand, has faced 65% RHB (and twice as many batters overall). His worst split was this year vs. RHB, and it was .599 (which is also lower than Sherrill’s split vs. lefties this year).
I’m not yet convinced that this trade was good, but I’d rather have Marshall for the money and prospects than Sherrill, when you factor past performance and age.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Sherrill for LOOGY
and “the forgotten man” Bill Bray to do exactly what we’re now paying Marshall to do.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 24, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Who do you think approached who?
Do you think Walt really wanted to get Marshall and went to Theo, or do you think Theo decided he wanted a young pitcher plus a couple of prospects to build with and went to Walt?
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
the last time theo came to the reds with a trade, it worked out swimmingly for the reds
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reds claimed a Josh Judy off waivers from the Indians
Was their Triple-A closer. Had a 7.07 ERA in 12 relief appearances with the Tribe.
"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones
Some decent minor league numbers.
by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 23, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
In my best Goober imitates Cary Grant voice,
“Judy! Judy! Judy!”
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 23, 2011 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"I can't do it!"
You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?
Judy could be a solid acquisition.
He throws a low-90s fastball that has touched 96, along with a hard, late-breaking slider. His changeup is nothing special. Judy gets a lot of sink and is a strikeout/ground ball guy, making him potentially a good fit for GABP.
Cleveland selected him out of Indiana Tech in the 34th round of the 2007 draft. He’s a native of Morgantown, W.Va., but I’ll try not to hold that against him.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 23, 2011 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because they'd been walking around the desert for 40 years and had yet to pass a Dairy Queen.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This trade is great
I think everyone doesn’t understand how good Marshall is. We just traded our prospects No 20, No 22, and a #6-7 starter for the 3rd best reliever in baseball. That includes closers! Keep in mind we’ll likely have 4 guys in next years draft that will be rated higher than these guys without any pro experience. So that pushes their value down to No24-26 prospects if they aren’t traded this off-season. We also eliminated some 40 man roster duplication.
Walt’s not done though. Trade for Andrew Bailey and Carlos Quentin then I will completely thrilled.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 2:48 PM EST reply actions
i just wish he was under control for more than 2012 ...
or that the Cubs sent some cash with him … i realize he has been a badass.
Individuality: Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.
Also keep in mind
Getting the best left handed reliever in baseball is going to stop Dusty’s bitching about moving Chapman to the rotation. Dusty is all about each player having a key “role” and Marshall takes away the role Dusty has for Chapman.
Wood was also the guy who would start for a SP injury. So 2/3 of Bailey/Leake/Chapman is going to the rotation, the odd man out is going to be the long-man and spot starter.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's remarkable that Marshall did what he did last year
with a .313 BABIP against. That screams sustainable to me
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
Unless he loses a little bit of stuff due to being over worked.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
this is a losing mentality
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
no it is not
it is a reality that GM’s need to face. There are a small number of relief pitchers who can throw 80 innings a year more than 2 or 3 times.
Just like trading for a starting pitcher who has thrown 750 great innings over the past 3 years may be a bad idea.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
yes it is
Sean Marshall would have been the 2nd best pitcher on the 2010 Reds.
#injuryhandicappingisstupid
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Dec 23, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Actually...
There are few relievers who pitch 80 IP in any year, because of modern usages.
However, of the guys that do, they pitch alot:
- Tyler Clippard has thrown 239 IP over the past 3 seasons
- Jonny Venters has 171 over the past 2
- Edward Mujica has 239.1 over the past 3
- Chad Qualls has pitched more than 73 innings 5 times.
- Carlos Marmol has been over 74 IP 5 of his 6 seasons
That’s just a selection of guys who pitched more than 70 innings in ’11 with no starts. Because of how relievers are used, there still were only 28 such pitchers last year.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
Well, the #20 and #22 ratings were from last year
A very good chance one or both of those guys would have been top 10 this year
"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24
by BK on Dec 23, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Now that the Dear Leader is dead, the North Korean league has to be ripe for the picking.
Come on, Walt, get us some pinko Asians!
Make TRADES for ’em, Walt………..TRADES!
Wow, this is an awful trade as it turns out
I am dumbfounded why Walt would pay that much for a one-year rental in the bullpen.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
for Christmas
Wayne Krivsky gave him some advice on how to value relief pitchers.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm pretty sure he's on a mission to put together a winning team in 2012
by ams78 on Dec 23, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i like that aspect of it (winning in 2012)
But just not at the cost of sucking in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, etc…
But Walt will be gone by then, so what will he care?
teh fay
Thinks the Reds smell blood this year. With Pujols and Fielder gone, the sucky Astros still in the division, the Bucs probably not ready for prime time yet, this might be a relatively easy year to win. The contracts they signed with Bruce, Votto, etc. are heavily backloaded, and they were counting on increased attendance to pay them. If that’s going to happen, they need to win.
I do wonder what this will do to the Reds future. If the Reds are out of it by the deadline, I could see Walt deciding to have a firesale, maybe even trading Votto, in order to restock the farm and lower the payroll.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Walt ain't going out like that.
I’m being willfully naive and probably even a bit facetious but I’m not ready to imagine that Bob allowed Walt to do all this (starting with the Chapman signing) so that he could spend the twilight of his Hall of Fame(?) career selling fruit that’s about to rot.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
it will be Bob who makes the decision
I don’t think Walt would trade Joey Votto without getting the go-ahead from ownership.
Bob’s going to have to decide if he wants to open up his wallet to pay Joey, or let him go.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Who would go in a fire sale?
so much of the time is controlled for a relatively long time.
Marshall and Votto are really the only two I can see them selling off at the deadline if things don’t go as expected.
I think if this team fails it will be due to injuries not due to lack of talent.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Votto? Bruce? Cueto? BP?
I think if this team fails it will be due to injuries not due to lack of talent.
Or maybe just bad luck.
Last year, we were pretty confident. Who imagined that at the deadline, we’d be in fourth place, looking up at the Pirates?
OTOH, I didn’t think the Reds were ready for prime time in 2010, and they got to the postseason.
Baseball, you can’t predict it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I forgot about Phillips, he would be dealt
I don’t see them moving Cueto at the deadline, he is cost controlled through 2015, and they aren’t going to find a better deal for him then what they have right now.
I could see them moving Votto and Phillips, and using that money to try to fix what was broken this year.
If the Reds do nothing more than get swept in the first round of the playoffs, with the this group of talent I will be really disapointed.
And if they are forced to sell of Cueto, and Bruce along with Votto just to pay the bills, I think that could kill my passion for baseball, as it would show the Reds are in a rigged fuckin game.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
If we don't make it out of the 1st round
we will look back at this offseason and wince
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Really?
If we win 90 games but then lose a best-of-five series, you’ll retroactively consider this winter as an unmitigated failure?
There’s way to much SSS noise in a short series for me to assign much value to it. If I did, I’d have to consider St. Louis the best team in baseball this year.
Slight exaggeration
Also, that was a textbook case of putting words in my mouth. But if it happens and Marshall walks…it was a lot of going all in that didn’t go very far in.
I have to go through all my stages of grief over losing Torreyes, ken.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
why do you care so much about losing a 19yo?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry to have to mention it but that playoff against the Phillies..
..was pretty much the definition of ‘not ready for prime time.’
(But your point is taken.)
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
If the Reds 'win' a championship (or two!) by 2014..
and Votto walks then ya take some of your significantly increased gate revenues and ya start rebuilding around Bruce, Cueto and Chapman. And Stubbs and Mesoraco. And hopefully even Latos and Marshall.
That’s not gonna suck. I don’t care if their ceiling is 85 wins. That’s not gonna suck because winning those championships with those guys didn’t suck.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
I don’t really buy the Votto window right now.
This team has young talent that will be here after Votto leaves.
In 2014 the lineup will be
C-Meso
1B-?
2B-?
3B-END/Frazier
SS-Frazier?
RF-Bruce
CF-Stubbs
LF-???
Rotation:
Latos
Cueto
Leake
??
??
You figure that between now and 2014 a few people in house will fill some of those roles.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
and by Frazier at SS I mean Cozart
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
he’s building a team that is good enough to compete for the central divison title…but that’s not quite the same thing as building a team that can win championships.
The Reds have an ace and a strong 2 in Latos and Cueto
they have a strong offense, and their bullpen could be the best in the league with the Marshall trade, it isn’t the Nasty Boys but it will be 6 deep with quality and proven relief pitchers.
I am hoping the Giants fall out of it, and the Reds could pick up Cain as a deadline rental. If they can add one more dominant top of the rotation type to their staff, they will be in great post-season shape.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
This team is built to (hopefully) be leading the division by 3-8 games at the trade deadline.
And then you let Walt do his thing all over again.
I know what you mean though. No matter what magic he works between now and April there’s no way you could see the Reds being favorites to win the NL.
But, y’know, 1990 and all that.
How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.
by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, they don't have to get a left fielder today
Andre Either could be available at the trade deadline, and his bat would be quite a boost for the Reds.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
The playoffs can be - and often are - a crapshoot decided by luck.
Once you’re in the playoffs, anything can happen.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 24, 2011 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
Uh, no.
#spoileralert
That’s scripted, lady.
"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
so we're not going to continue to improve our roster in the future?
we’re going to suck starting in 2014 and beyond b/c we traded Torreyes and Sappelt? Really?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Doing as well as I've ever seen a GM do on that front
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
(Not counting Loria's hatchet job of the Expos when they were league owned)
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Come on dude, you can't really believe that
We’ve still got Meso, still got Corcino, still got Hank-Rod, still got Yorman, still got Lotzkar, still got Duran, and still got Hamilton. To say that this is the best job depleting the minor leagues that you’ve seen is disingenuous.
Meso is going to be playing for the big club this year
Not a single other guy you listed is even a 50/50 shot to be decent in MLB.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
They are all raw and pretty far away
some of them will, but the chances of all of them making the big leagues, much less putting up respectable MLB numbers is low.
That is why I don’t get stressed out over losing one or two of those guys.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think that is that crazy a view
Hamilton is an interesting prospect and I keep him around simply because of the huge upside, but I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he flames out in a few years. Yorman’s a wait and see guy too, really hard to tell given his age how he’ll do, hoping we see some progress in his K rate this year.
That's not the point
Of course they may not make it to the majors, but they’re all guys that Walt has kept. You made it sound like we’re the fucking Astros.
I would have had no problem trading Wood for an everyday leftfielder FYI
I like Wood and I like starting pitching depth, but I would like a left fielder as well.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Well yeah, but you can't ignore what we're getting in return
The Marshall deal is debatable no question, but its two guys, one if you’re not a believer in Sappelt. The Latos trade makes a ton of sense if you ask me, especially since the main prospects in the deal looked to be blocked. It’s thinning out our farm system yes, but it is giving us useful pieces in return that go with all our other home-grown guys in the bigs (I’ll take a little depletion for the farm for a young high-upside controllable SP). I don’t think it would be a stretch to think that the system will get replenished a little as some of our lower depth starts to get better.
I’m also starting to think Walt is leaning toward taking the pick rather than resigning Cordero.
I'm all about the Latos trade
I’m not liking the Marshall trade very much. It reminds me of the rumors of trading Votto and Cueto for Joe Blanton back in the day. Hell, prospects don’t win games.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Bedard was Votto and Homer
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I get that with the Marshall trade
Even though I’m in favor of it (largely because I have less faith in all three guys than others, though I did like Torreyes) I get why others aren’t. Votto/Cueto they were higher profile guys, and I’m thinking that’s why that deal didn’t go through (thank god).
Votto/Bailey >>> Pu pu platter we just handed Chicago
Walt just handed Theo three elves from our island of misfit prospects.
by ken on Dec 24, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
probably the best perspective I've seen offered about this trade so far
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
he's doing it just to piss you off, dougdirt
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Josh is soooooo correct in his think:
i just wish he was under control for more than 2012 …
This is a very very very short term ‘wing and a prayer’ deal.
Walt Walt Walt…
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
until its mention here today, and seeing the trailer on TV a couple of times..
I’d never heard of it
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the hype made it a tad overrated
but it’s still a pretty solid movie. Owen Wilson does a great Woody Allen impression
Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me
yep. not allen's finest movie, but still a good time
i know a lot of people that would hate it.
as far as woody allen impressions go, owen wilson was slightly better than jason biggs & a notch below larry david.
of course, the best allen impression was billy bob thornton in bandits.
Great Cast.....
Owen Wilson
Rachel McAdams
Marion Cotillard
Kathy Bates
Adrien Brody
Carla Bruni
Michael Sheen
The only scary thing about this movie is that it was written and directed Woody Allen…Woody so immersed in his own self-ti-tude waxes self importantly about the the lighting: “Allen states that the fundamental aesthetic for the camera work gave the film a warm ambience. He describes that he likes it (the cinematography), "intensely red, intensely warm, because if you go to a restaurant and you’re there with your wife or your girlfriend, and it’s got red-flecked wallpaper and turn-of-the-century lights, you both look beautiful. Whereas if you’re in a seafood restaurant and the lights are up, everybody looks terrible.” YAAAAAAWWWWNNNN….Woody Allen, the Phillip Roth of Cinema…making the same movie over and over and over and over….oh and don’t forget his less than obvious near pedophilia – http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s4i75049
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
I would fuck Kathy Bates and I am not the least ashamed to admit it.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sexy!
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
wait, what?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I can hardly imagine
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I love how 3 comments into the trade thread, Doug has to talk about his boy Stubbs
glad to see he’s still fucking that chicken
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
