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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

"Marshall Stack" is also an acceptable pun for this trade

I'm a little late to this as I've been touring the holiday travel delay circuit. But, I have to say, I wasn't exactly "amped" when I heard about this trade - one that could potentially become harder to defend if the two prospects are revealed to be more than roster-filler. Sean Marshall is a reliever with one year before free agency, while Travis Wood is a starting pitcher with 5 years of team control who - as recent as last year - was getting everyone all excited as a potential rotation fixture.

The best thing to recommend it is that it's an all-in move. If it wasn't abundantly clear before, eliminating roster redundancy and playing for next season is Walt's MO this winter. This deal undoubtedly makes the Reds better in 2012, as they needed a top-flight reliever AND a second lefty in the bullpen, while Wood was on the outside looking in to the rotation. Depending on whether you weight next season's playoff hopes above all else, this trade could easily be spun as a winner.

Of course, evaluating the players involved is essential to forming an opinion about this trade, regardless of whether you're more into years of control vs. 2012 success. A closer look at Marshall reveals that he's much more than just a second banana to Bill Bray in the bullpen (bang). He started his first two seasons in the bigs and has both shown durability while, judging by his 2010-11, just hitting his prime years. He's been an elite, closer-caliber reliever during the last two seasons who, while better against lefties, has nice-looking splits against righties too. And even though Marshall is a free agent in 2013, he's a good candidate to be a ranked by Elias (UPDATE: this doesn't exist anymore, but Marshall could still be a top free agent under the new CBA) and be offered arbitration - so the Reds could get Marshall back or a 2013 first-round pick out of the bargain.

Wood, entering his age 25 season, has plenty of room to grow into his minor league line. He's been impressive both in the minors (PitcherOY in 2010) and during the first half of his 2010 debut , but was eminently hittable last season. With a fastball that averages 89-90 and some scouting opinion that put him in the 5th starter/journeyman range, the brain trust may have seen something that wasn't fixable for Wood's future as a major league starter.

I don't like giving up 5 years for one, especially since I thought Wood had a role to play next season and would see some kind of bounce-back, but I see a lot of virtue in Walt's strategy to take the org's best players who were either blocked or on the margins on the 25-man roster and turn them into a major upgrade of the pitching staff.

Poll
Is Walt done trading?
Yes
82 votes
No
495 votes
Merry Christmas!
125 votes

702 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 955 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I thought it was about Marshall Law

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Annie Hall = instant rec!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Then why didn't you rec my Annie Hall?

/recwhoring

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it too late to get in on this?

I get my sundries at Marshall’s. Penny Marshall, as well.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 22, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Regarding the Elias rankings

from what I gather those are gone entirely, and offering Marshall arb involves offering him a one year deal at around $12M (avg of top 125 players). I could easily see him accepting that, and I do not think the Reds can risk something like that, so it might be a real possibility Marshall walks without the Reds getting anything.

This part of the new CBA is still a mystery in a lot of ways to me, so I could be mistaken. It’s odd nothing has to be done for a guy like Coco, yet Marshall you would have to make a huge commitment to. Also I think the type A/Type B Elias stuff was done away with because it would open up more teams to sign a guy, yet the new configuration might actually be making it harder for Coco to be signed by the team he wants to play for since it makes a lot of sense for the Reds to let him walk and take the pick.

by pack_fan on Dec 22, 2011 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

On CoCo...

I came across this MLBTR piece that puts the Reds, Red Sox, and Angels kicking Coco’s tires, with the Sox backing off. Basically, the Reds made a pretty savvy move by letting him walk. If we bring him back, it’ll be on the cheap. Not that we should. But, ya know.

by ben nevis on Dec 22, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Its about the only way the trade makes sense.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Dec 22, 2011 1:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Unless he doesn't get an extension..

then the way to make sense of it is to recognize that Wood’s value has fallen quickly and thudly.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I really have no problem with this trade at all.

I feel like the hand wringing is akin to keeping lots of old National Geographics because you never know when you will want to read the articles. But you never read the articles. Is it worth keeping Wood around as a seventh starting arm, when the Reds could sign a different seventh arm and turn Wood into Marshall? I’ll feel different if they give away two awesome minor leaguers as the other two players, but I doubt that will happen since we haven’t heard anything yet.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Dec 22, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

well said

they can find a AAAA #7 pitcher and sign him for cheap. finding a reliever of Marshall’s quality is more difficult.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

But my sources are much more dire on this forecast

"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

by rorschach1979 on Dec 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point on Elias

I’m in a pre-CBA state of mind. I need to brush up on the new one.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 22, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Same here

I’m too lazy to find a decent source for it, and I’m wondering if any source will truly know anyway. Thinking all this won’t be better known until next year after its been in place for awhile and people have had time to see how it works,

by pack_fan on Dec 22, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

if you're looking for some reading that will make your head spin

here’s a resource for you:
http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=6410

I skimmed through some of it, going to pick up where I left off later

by pack_fan on Dec 22, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

something something crenshaw

... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

by supergrover on Dec 22, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions  

Marshall, Marshall, Marshall

I still wanna know who the minor leaguers are!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

getting Marshall is fine and dandy

But I don’t classify it as an all in move, he’s a setup reliever who will fill Aroldis role.

I still say the lineup is light, needs one more plus bat.

Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today

by obc2 on Dec 22, 2011 3:21 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

BELTRAN!!!

I think I saw on mlbtraderumors that StL is the favorite to sign him and they’re only offering him two years at $8 million per. Come on! The Reds have to be able to find a way to fit that in the budget. Pinch some pennies elsewhere and sign Beltran instead of CoCo (and keep the pick)!

Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.

by badenjr on Dec 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

yup, mmhmmm.

Do that.

Along those lines, what’s your over/under for Lance Berkman Games Played 2012?

Mine’s 110.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

140+

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

no way

last year he barely cleared that, in a season widely regarded as miraculously healthy. Before that, you had to go back to 2008.

He’ll be 36 this year.

I just bet my cousin a frosty beverage that Rolen would have more games played than Berkman. It’s far from a sure thing, but I won’t be shocked if I win.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Ohh, that's a bad bet

Rolen is older, more fragile, and actually plays defense while playing a tougher position. I’d put Berkman’s number around 130.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup, right around 140+

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think 10 games is a rather significant amount

personally

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

they are both made of glass at this point

At least one of them will have an extended tour on the DL. To my mind, it’s a coin flip who gets hit the worst.

Well worth a trash talking opportunity with a family member who has stooped to Cardinals fandom.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

True enough

I still say Rolen has a better chance of landing on the DL because of the position he plays, age and recent health struggles. I think Berkman will be healthy enough to last most of the year at 1b

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

rolen is only 1 year older

they are both old dudes.

I don’t think Rolen will make 110, either, mind you.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, but Berkman was pretty much injury free last year

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

But he's a professional!

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

if Beltran goes to St. Louis, I will be pretty disapointed in the Walt and Bob

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Beltran going to StL has nothing to do with Walt or Bob

If the Reds can’t afford to pay Willingham type money, they certainly can’t afford Beltran. Better hope the Indians or Blue Jays overpay.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If they have decided to go all in, they should go all the way

I am sure Bob can afford to pay for Beltran if he wants to, and if the Reds do really well this year, it could end up being a worthwhile investment.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely agree

Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.

by badenjr on Dec 22, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

If they can't afford 2 years of moderate money for Beltran

why are they spending all available talent to go “all in”?

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

+1!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I'm just going off reports from Fya and Sheldon

I’m not against signing Beltran, I just don’t think they will because of money.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

but that means they’re “doing it wrong.”

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

+1!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like someone won't be happy until they can be disappointed

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Bailey + Hamilton for LoMo

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Reds Trades Since 1990


Wayne Krivsky was a very active GM…
Dan O’Brien not so much…..

by Crazy Legs on Dec 22, 2011 4:03 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Lets see Krivksy in 06

The Phillips Trade, the Guardado trade, the Arroyo trade, the TRADE, the Cody Ross trade, the Lohse trade, the Mays trade, the Schowenweis trade, the Cormier trade. All of those trades I can think of just up the top of my head.

I guess that is what happens when a bad team plays over its head and contends, but you try to fill all the cracks, but do not have the minor league talent to really go out and make a big trade to get somebody who really helps you.

Actually with the exception of the Trade, most of Krivksy’s moves that year were fairly shrewd.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought he was lost to waivers

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, right

i forgot about Dave.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

everyone forgets about Dave

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Dave's not here, man

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It is actually pretty impressive

Between Krivksy’s hiring and May first, he had acquired 1/3rd of the starting lineup, in Hatteberg, Dave Ross, and Brandon Phillips, plus he got Bronson Arroyo.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

if he didn't have a fetish for over paying over the hill relivers and middle infielders...

He is actually a pretty shrewd bargain hunting GM, who seems fit for a small market.

He also seems pretty creative.

I would hire him to be my GM.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Find Yossi a job in a small market

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a difference between a scout and a GM

Krivsky was a dick and I think that turned a lot of FAs away. He lacked the soft skills for management.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The trains didn't run on time under Mussolini

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

i knew it was only a matter of time

we’d already hit burgers and beer in the other thread.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That's definitely the worst part about this

Also, that Chapman slice is the most convincing argument I can think of as to why he’ll be the 5th starter

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure he was...

But we paid him, and he performed as expected.

If Chapman becomes the closer for a third of the money, the Reds will be very happy.

by MatthewH on Dec 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The Reds can afford to extend Joey Votto

if they stop handing out big contracts for over the hill veterans. Would 7 years and $160M keep Votto?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

we all knew it was bad

but now it’s just illustratively bad

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

No albatross there...

Oh, wait…

Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.

by badenjr on Dec 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Looks like Gio is going to DC

According to Sickels’ rankings, the Nats gave up 4 of their top 10 prospects (#‘s 3, 4, 6 and 9). Can’t wait to hear Bowden’s reaction to this.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 4:28 PM EST reply actions  

He'll love it

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure

I thought the Lerners actually liked him. And the radio/tv personality people certainly did

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Checking his Wiki page, he resigned

Was not fired. So you’re probably right.

He quit after that whole Latin America bonus skimming dealie.

by ken on Dec 22, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Bowden is a huge asshat

His tweet just before that one:

If reported deal is confirmed..Nationals did what they had to do to build a strong young rotation for the future with a PROVEN young Pitcher

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Pent up anger and resentment is no way to go through life son

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

it gets even better

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

That doesn't even make any sense!

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Welcome back!

More Bowden:

Nationals get proven 2-time 15-game winner/200IP w/ Gio Gonzalez for four good minor league prospects according to ESPN’s Keith Law.

Too bad Latos threw only 194 innings with crap run support.

by ken on Dec 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Just throwing this out there

Gio Gonzalez 10-11: 3.71 FIP, 6.7 fWAR, 2.01 K/BB
Mat Latos 10-11: 3.08 FIP, 7.2 fWAR, 3.38 K/BB

Bowden is, as always, a putz

by DerekH91 on Dec 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

So Gio is PROVEN

while Latos is apparently a project or something. Bowden is making a fool of himself. The Nats gave away a bunch of talent too, maybe as much as the Reds (or more), and got a less valuable pitcher. Bowden is really pissing me off.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Jocketty >>> Bowden

thank goodness that era is over.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Per Slyde on the twitters:

Gio: 402.2 IP last two years
Latos: 379 IP the last two years

by chazzilla on Dec 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably 4 or 5 starts more for Gio...definitely more proven

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the only advantage for Gio.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Srsly.

Latos has an extra year of team control, walks less, strikes out more, is less HR prone…

by chazzilla on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

They actually both have 4 years of control

But Gio is a Super 2, so all 4 of his will be arb years, which also means he’ll likely be significantly more expensive over the next 4 than Latos.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

unless Gio implodes and Latos turns into an ace!

thereby getting more in 3 arb years than Gio in 4! bwahahaha that would be hilarious wouldn’t it?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 22, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

NICE!

Classy post.

I rooted for the Cubs back in the late 80’s when Don Zimmer ran things. 1989 was a sweet year.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks pal!

I’d love to see Torreyes tear shit up

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 24, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

An I the only one who is actually GLAD Latos threw fewer innings??

I feel like that’s a great thing for a young pitcher.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

And Bowden’s “proven” thing is silly anyway. Bowden is basing it off of pitcher wins and a few extra innings pitched.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Why

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Because he is expressing his opinions

which have pretty much always managed to give me heartburn, especially when he was with the Reds.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I understand that...but his opinions are worthless

Nothing to get upset about

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, when they had direct impact on the Reds, they were

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

But not so much now, you know?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

You are a more laid-back guy than I am

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

settle down, Francis :)

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know what is more saddening.

The fact that he was the GM for two different professional baseball teams, or that he is actually getting paid for offering his analysis.

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Two different GM positions

Have you seen some of the gasbags employed by ESPN?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

good point

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

So, similar to the Latos trade, except no major leaguers

Sounds about right. The Nats have a good system, after all

by DerekH91 on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Logan Morrison is reporting that Prince is going to Seattle

not sure if srs, or just trolling.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

So what happens with Smoak?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

DH?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Logan Morrison could play LF for us

he used to play LF for the Fish, right?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bailey + Hamilton for LoMo

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

you are comfortable with relying on Cueto, Leake, Latos, Chapman, and Arroyo to not break down at all

If any of those guys go down, and Bailey is traded, the Reds will have to either dip into their bullpen strength and stretch out Sam LeCure, give the balls to the likes of Chad Reinekie.

That is bad news.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not proud of this.

But I just got a little bit happy when I saw the word “Arroyo” that close to the words “break down.”

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah, I'm with Yossi

we need Bailey. I’m just not 100% sure how to use them. I reeeeally really wish Homer had options

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 23, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions  

LeCure can start

We can use Reineke in an emergency.

If we really get desperate, Daryl Thompson, Matt Klinker, Tom Cochran.

I have a feeling we’ll sign some SP FA POS that we’ll all hate, but will be a #5 type

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

THE TWINS STOLE ALL OUR DEPTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

'sokay

we could use D-train instead

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 24, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

And the LG Twins are the ones who signed Jukich!

I think we may be onto some dastardly twin-related conspiracy.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 24, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

this is why I should Google stuff

I thought Thompson was still a Red

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Does he know where D-train is gonna go?

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The saddest thing about the Marshall trade

Is it separates him from Ted Lilly and [Darwin] Barney.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 22, 2011 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

srsly??

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 22, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes...

Do not mock the Lilly, he will go all Lilly on your rear….

It’s a joke on BleedCubbieBlue that Lilly is greater than Chuck Norris.

by tootle on Dec 23, 2011 4:17 AM EST up reply actions  

You should throw in some stupid plot twist too

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Hanley is now a female and white?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it better when there's some stupid plot twist that just pokes fun at the audience and the outcome

/robincan’tgetpregnantandhavekids’d

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Least shocking thing ever

Mitch Williams on MLBN:

“Sabermetrics, I don’t see where it’s a part of the game. I just don’t get it.”

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST reply actions  

Shocking!

by Joe Nolan's Neckbeard on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I love the MLB network, but dammit do I hate Mitch Williams

He’s far and away the worst person on there, and he’s on all the damn time. He’s one of those assholes who is proud of his ignorance. Like he thinks his stupidity makes him more like the average Joe. Kind of like Rick Perry.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe the Plumber is runnin for office.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

in Ohio, right?

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

Against Mary Kilborn up in Columbus.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

"Vote for Joe the Plumber, an authentic Everyman"
  • (disclaimer: not really a plumber)
  • (disclaimer: not really named Joe)

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

That's being kind to those who are actually dumb

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

+1!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

shall we agree to replace it with

“me too”?

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I was waiting for someone to agree with me

and then +1 in the body of the comment

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I was too

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't disagree with you

+1

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

As a centrist, pox-on-both-their-houses

this is true.

One of the republicans big problems is that they don’t have a lot of intellectual horsepower.

A big exception to this is Gingrich, who is brilliant, but appears to be completely amoral. Cheney and Rove were also in that camp.

That said, sexsalad has a point. There’s a lot of “tolerate anything except intolerance, which I define to mean people who don’t realize I’m right” out there.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

You know that you can just ignore 'creds posts right?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

where's the fun in that?

Gotta do something while we’re waiting to find out who the minor leaguers were.

Geez, when does the season start? Let’s play some BASEBALL.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure if I should be offended or not.

So just to be safe, I’ll go ahead and be kind of offended.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

bleh, that's nothing new.

I’m not blaming this on any political in recent history, though I’m sure many would be inclined blame Bush (it’s just so convenient!) Separation of powers took a crippling blow when Andy Jackson was in office and became what is now with Lincoln. Since then, it’s been the status quo for Presidents to completely disregard the judicial branch.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

That sounds pretty. Unfortunately, it's not true.

At least, it has nothing to do with what Gingrich is talking about. He wants to strip judges of most of their constitutional powers and wants to remove them from the bench whenever they make decisions he deems too “far reaching.”

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, generally the consensus has been when SCOTUS tells the President to stop something, he does.

Last time I checked, Marbury v. Madison has neither been overturned nor ignored. Presidents have tried to circumvent what has been declared unconstitutional by the Court, but they don’t ignore it. Regardless, the aforementioned situation is nothing like Gingrich’s threat to arrest judges that he considers to be “activist.”

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

It is probably misguided, and perhaps outright wrong.

But he makes a carefully crafted argument for his own ends. He’s thought through exactly where he wants that argument to go. Like I said, amoral, but brilliant. Like Lex Luthor.

As opposed to the rest of that gang, whose arguments aren’t even arguments, just vapid populist incendiary comments.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

The dude named 4 really stupid politicians who talk like they don’t know how stupid they are. Their stances are irrelevant…these are stupid fools. If there were prominant stupid fools on the opposite side of the issues who wallowed pridefully in their ignorance and stupidity, they would be mocked comparably.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Jay Z?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Dennis Kucinich?

Nancy Pelosi?

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Kucinich seems mildly insane, but pretty bright

Pelosi is a fine party leader.

Neither of these people are anywhere close to the category of Perry, Cain, Dubya, Palin, and Bachman.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a matter of perspective, I think, more than anything.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

none of them went forward with a plan of 999

none of them believe you can pray away the gay.

none of them come out and say blatantly facutally incorrect things on a regular bases.

noen of them are worried about China getting nuclear technology.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

also none of them said on live t.v. that immunization causes retardation.

if you can point me to quotes nearly as stupid as this I will believe it.

The only thing that may even come close is Kucinich’s alien thing, which is more insane than stupid, but I know a few drug users with similar stories.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Pelosi is an uppity bitch

who needs to go away

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't stomach her nor either California senator.

And Harry Reid is a joke. And Schumer and Frank helped cause the mortgage crisis with their agenda.

I think we might be better off if we selected random college graduates to run Congress.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

my brother wants to make "elected" office into a draft

like jury service.

still, you have the problem of promised payola after people are done.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Getting members of Congress to adopt a middle-class life would be another solution.

All members of Congress must give up all future earnings and property to live on military housing and in 5-digit-salary public service jobs for the remainder of their lives.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I'm realitively new around here and I don't comment as much as some

But I can say I’ve NEVER told anyone to know anything off no matter what political opinions they express. If that’s happened to you, I’m sorry, because one of the things I love about this site is the off topic digressions into any and all topics.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

on a train.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

D-train?

Probably will start in AAA.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

or

after we trade Wood for Saving Sean Marshall, he could be an emergency starter

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I still don't get why it's Saving Sean Marshall

and not Forgetting Sean Marshall?

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

b/c I want him to be our closer and rack up saves

if he sucked as a closer, then it would be forgetting sean marshall….

Christ in a hogpen..

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know

i think it might be best to let willis pitch for another team.

with volquez & wood, i really don’t see a need for him

by 'tHan on Dec 22, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The only reason they would

Is if they were planning something crazy, like trading Hamels

(Jesus, that would be amazing)

by DerekH91 on Dec 22, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know

I’m not too keen on Willis for Hamels, unless they are throwing in cash.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The Reds have no money and are blowin' shit up, bitches!

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 22, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We're like Al Qaeda!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Al Qaeda has money though

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 23, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, sure. Some.

But they don’t have Pentagon money.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

that's true

Arroyo’s the horse we need for this rotation

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

He’s definitely the glue that holds everything together

by DerekH91 on Dec 22, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

ruff

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Arroyo's a horse

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You're a smart kid.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Is this aimed at me?

I think a couple weeks ago you commented about me trying to stop political discussions. If you’re talking about me, it’s just my personal bias shining through. (And a little bit of the fact that conservative bits tend to start arguements, while liberal bits tend to get ignored, as you said.) You’re perfectly welcome to call me on it, but there’s no great conspiracy. I doubt what’s going on at your school is related, and is probably not a national trend – my school experience certainly wasn’t like that.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 22, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

After doing the research, I have to agree.

Red Reporter has warned very few people when it comes to political speech. When there are warnings, it’s because people are blatantly trolling or trying to make personal attacks.

While the “you’re tolerant for except towards people whom you consider intolerant” talking point might score well on talk radio, it remains an unproven assertion here.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

oh sorry

I didn’t mean here in particular. This place is pretty dang tolerant of everything except pedophilia, and ya know, I’m okay with that.

We’re all perfect. It’s the others.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

x

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Y'all have done quite a number here with this conversation.

Just read the thread backwards. We haven’t seen this much Lincoln bashing here since he was coming out of our pen.

I agree with Bill Doran and would take it a step further. The biggest victory of the right in this country over last century has been to move the left further and further towards the center. When Obama—who is very committed to capitalism—gets regularly called a socialist, then the limits of political and economic thought have shifted drastically to the right.

I think it was Fredrick Jameson who said that it is easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Dec 23, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

According to Wikipedia (the bastion of all truth), Republicans control 55% of the House, Democrats control 53% of the Senate

There is no majority to speak of. Only a group of people being divided by idiotic rhetoric from both sides.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, although

I’ll say, as someone who grew up pretty staunchly conservative, I’m completely disgusted by what the Tea Party has done to the Republican party as a whole.

And while both parties are ridiculous these days, I can’t help but feel like the complete gridlock and anti-compromise sentiment is a direct result of the rise of the Tea Party. Mainly because they blatantly say that is one of their primary goals.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with ya there, stinkbutt

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I think it explains why we’ve seen such a carousel of Republican front runners this year. The Tea Party demands complete idealogical purity. Which is impossible.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Romney's pretty close

He’ll change to anything for a chance at the White House

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't really think that's true.

I think he’s a very centrist Republican at a time when it’s not cool to be one. He’s trying to act like a “real Conservative”, but no one believes him, rightly so.

So they keep trotting out these ridiculous candidates, and one by one they show themselves to be completely inadequate for the job. I feel quite confident that, if elected, Romney would be the Republican version of Obama—campaigned on very ideological grounds but, once in office, proves to be much more centrist, thereby pissing off the base but not being centrist enough to mollify the crazies in the other party.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

But there's a huge difference between Romney and Obama

Obama’s always been pretty liberal as Senator and as a state Rep. Romney was pretty centrist as Mass governor, but is trying to paint himself as hardcore conservative now.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but I'm saying, in practice,

they both will go in as presumptively ideologues, but in practice both are very practical and centrist. I also get the sense that Romney is a Great Compromiser too. (not a compliment)

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

No difference between Romney and Obama….both owned by Wall Street Banks.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Romney is more honest in that regard.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a huge difference

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah i forgot

one belongs to a religion that, up until 30 years ago or so, officially considered blacks to be “sub-human”

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but Obama tried to paint himself as a centrist in the 08 election.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 22, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he (and his campaign staff) did a great job allowing Americans to paint him as whatever we wanted him to be.

Almost literally.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Obama didn't really try to paint himself as anything more than whatever his strong supporters wanted him to be.

His theme wasn’t policy, it was I am a uniter. And after 8 years of Bush it worked very well as Alan says above.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It always felt like his theme was

“Hey, I’m the opposite of the last guy.”

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 22, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that's just what we all wanted him to be.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

and he seemed almost above politics when he ran. Bill Clinton, regardless of what you think of his administration’s achievements, is a great politician. But you can see the grease on Clinton, you know he is a sleazy smooth politician. Obama felt above that.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

so, he's like an anti-boggart?

Now that we have Latos and his wife, we’re gonna need a lot more Harry Potter references.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

True

But eventually Republicans are going to have to choose a candidate and it looks like Romney is doing everything he can to be that candidate now. He weathered the challenge from Perry and I’m not sure who else is standing in his way – Paul? Gingrinch?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I turn 35 in three days, write me in instead

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

If Gingrich is the GOP nominee, I will

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Were you born in the US?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

With how skinny he is, I'll guess Ethiopia

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That's racist!

(and kinda funny)

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Lexington, KY, if that counts

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And where were your balls born, sir?

Do you have a certificate of live balls?

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

They stretched all the way to Corbin

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

and you have a solid platform!

I read it on twitter!

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't hate his politics

And he’s a pretty smart guy. But he’s SUCH a dick. Completely condescending to anyone who doesn’t already agree with him.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Gingrich is just politically established enough to have a chance.

He’s weathered the marriage infidelity thing so far, and he’s clearly much smarter than the other clowns who briefly held the lead.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Smarter? Really?

I think he’d have a chance if this was the late 1990’s but not now…the marriage infidelity thing would turn off some of the staunch conservatives, no?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The following quote is attributed to Bachmann:

“I don’t know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians. We’ve had an earthquake; we’ve had a hurricane. He said, ‘Are you going to start listening to me here?’ Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we’ve got to rein in the spending.”

Holy. Fucking. Shit. I don’t want her anywhere near the government.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

In a bubble she may have intellect.

In the realm of global politics…well…Political Reporter?! No thanks.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

She's a political beast. She's saying that to get elected

Which makes it scarier. She’s actually highly educated and not as dim as she projects.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Bachman is stupid, uninformed and only can related to the world from her own point of view.

In a nutshell I’d say she’s……….. stupid.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

She sure doesn't seem to know her history.

“But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States. … I think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forbearers who worked tirelessly — men like John Quincy Adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country.”

That’s… pretty bad.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm no Bachmann supporter, but I think that's a bit overrated.

I’d rather my presidential candidate know more about European debt, Asian political leaders, and how to invest in emerging market economies than be a history major on a topic that was written and recorded primarily by those rich enough to write and publish it.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

If a person doesn't have a strong grasp of the history of our country, I don't think they have any business being involved in molding the future of it.

And I’m not talking about saying John Quincy Adams was a founding father, though that’s just embarrassing. Saying that the founding fathers worked tirelessly to end slavery quite simply shows that she has no fucking idea what the constitution was like. That’s alarming.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

All true

But for a 21st century POTUS, it’s probably more important to have a working knowledge of the issues that caused and arose from, say, the Gulf War than say, the War of 1812. It’s important to know history, but let’s not fetishize the 18th century.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

^ Everything just went bouncy. ^

I’m in bed with my laptop on my stomach. Laughing.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

NO.

A POTUS should have an excellent working knowledge of American history & civics, and if they don’t, they are not bright/wise enough to run my country.

NO need to make excuses for her or lower the bar of credibility. She’s as smart as a box of hair. She just seems stupider than the hair because the hair doesn’t endlessly talk out of its ass in an attempt to run the free world with a moralistic clench.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

It's all relative though.

Lincoln didnt do shit for women’s rights.

So?

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He should have stayed home and read Red Reporter.

That’s what he shoulda done.

Stupid American Cousin.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, Red Reporter wasn't invented until 1869

/stupid site tagline’d

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

C'mon. The guy was PRESIDENT.

He coulda read Red Reporter if he’d wanted to.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

brilliant

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

True that

He was just trying to save the Union

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

From Lincoln's Open Letter to Horace Greeley

“If I could save the Union without freeing any slave
I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all of the slaves I would do it,
and if I could save the Union by freeing some and leaving others alone I would
also do that.”

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

which proves he cared more about the Union

than about slavery.

But doesn’t prove at all that he didn’t care about slavery. Which he did, from other stuff that I studied in college approximately 75 years ago, and I can no longer quote.

Plus, I took that class pass/fail.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I might have to rewrite my term paper here.

“Negro equality, Fudge!! How long in the Government of a God great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue to be knaves to vend and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?”

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

Doesn’t sound much like an abolitionist.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, you may want to work on that title.

Unless your professor likes and rewards dog-whistle racist jokes.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, what?

Those are two quotes from Lincoln.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, okay.

I’ll modify my remark and instead say there’s a difference between being an abolitionist and someone who espouses racial equality.

Abolitionists wanted to be rid of slavery, mainly due to their religious preferences. Those in support of racial equality were few and far between politically even decades after the Civil War.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know a lot about Lincoln.

But I don’t think it was that uncommon to be abolition-leaning and also a white supremacist. I think Harlan’s dissent in Plessy v. Ferguson sort of takes that position.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 22, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But the thing is, he was never truly in favor of ending slavery.

He wanted to stop the spread of slavery when he was a young politician, but he showed no interest in the abolition of slavery in areas where it existed until he needed it for the Union cause. There was a difference between wanting slavery to stay where it was and wanting slavery to be abolished; Lincoln was a supporter of the former.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, I have no position at all on your overall argument.

Just picking nits with one of your individual logical steps.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

That's sort-of accurate, but an oversimplication.

My understanding is that he in private correspondence was an abolitionist, but in public prefaced everything with “well, the constitution says X, so we should just avoid expansion of slavery.”

It’s not terribly unlike individuals who are pro-life and want to end abortion, but have to show deference given to choice.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Note sure

If I’ve posted this one before.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

C'mon

You know better to not start that when we’re this far down in a reply thread!

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

The funny thing is, I only linked it because it was going to get cut off

/BadPun’d

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The spread of slavery was the only thing that would preserve it

Ending the spread of slavery would cause it to shrivel and end naturally. Lincoln hated slavery. He didn’t act as quickly as a Frederick Douglass or a Henry Ward Beecher would have liked, but to say he didn’t care about the slaves is to misread Lincoln.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, ok.

Politicians never ‘care’ about anything except getting re-elected!

This is fucking stupid. Merry Christmas. Tweet me when people stop talking about this shit.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey KIMB

I think we signed Dontrelle!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually, that is pretty far from true

Lincoln was an abolitionist. South Carolina left the Union because he was elected, and they felt the election of an abolitionist was going to lead to a ban on slavery.

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Shoulda let em go

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Touche

Eartha Kitt….rawr.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really.

Lincoln came from an anti-slavery party and wanted to stop the spread of slavery (and he could have been pressured by his party to push for abolition), which is why SC feared him. But that doesn’t mean he was an abolitionist by any means. Aside from that, the election of 1860 was the tipping point that came from a buildup of differences. It’s not like SC just decided to leave because Lincoln was an abolitionist; they damn near left in 1832 while Jackson was President. The Civil War was a result of nearly irreconcilable differences. It’s a rather watered down telling of history to say that SC left because Lincoln was an abolitionist and they thought they were going to lose slavery- it just doesn’t capture the truth.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you read Lies My Teacher Told Me?

If not, you may want to look into it. By James Lowen

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Perry tried to pray away the drought

not much smarter.

Really anybody who honestly believes they can pray anything is a bit intellectually deficient.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

That's true.

And that’s not at all what he typed, so you should re-read his post.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

"Really anybody who honestly believes they can pray anything is a bit intellectually deficient."

Even reading what he meant to say, that’s what he was going for.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

expecting prayer to change the world is a bit far fetched

praying for strength or understanding is one thing.

praying for and expecting something to change through the power of prayer alone is silly.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm agnostic

and even I know you’re wrong

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then shit

i will just stop doing shit and start praying for it to be done.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah..

that’s exactly what Z said..

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree.

I read it as “It’s foolish to believe that God is going to change His plan based on someone’s prayers.”

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 23, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

THIS

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not calling him a moron for being reiligious

He’s calling him a moron (and rightfully so) for going in front of a television camera and suggesting that praying to his god would help end the drought.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not?

It worked for Elijah (I Kings 18).

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably not very seriously, to be fair.

but I would respect their right to believe it. Also, I believe that there is more evidence that exists for a Biblical God than the Native American belief system. And I’m ending this debate because this kind of forum isn’t the place to have it.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

History is written by the winners, ya know.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

i wrote some history

i am no winner.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep. And 'winners' is a relative term.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

And boom goes the dynamite.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

whaddya mean?

The WHOLE POINT of RR is that we veer from xFIP to religion to burgers to xFLIP to politics to trains and back again.

Preferably all in the same thread.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a fair point.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

This.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

more people he knows believe in the biblical god

ergo more evidence!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

First of all, it's my belief. Remember that.

But I believe that there is far more evidence that supports the Christian belief system than anything else. For instance, the best-selling, most comprehensively tight book in the world is the Bible. It holds up under scrutiny, and it jives with the way the world operates. The story of the Bible has remained consistent and has been unchanged for 2000+ years, with no serious attempt to alter it.

I am admittedly no expert on the beliefs of the Native Americans, and I certainly respect the right of all people to believe what seems right to them. This is simply what I believe.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh, dude.

You’re no expert on the BIble either.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe not, but I'm working on it.

/seminarystudent’d

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, my.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

No kidding

No serious attempt to alter it? Has he heard of the apocrypha

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Apocrypha

The Apocryphical books of the Bible fall into two categories: texts which were included in some canonical version of the Bible at some point, and other texts of a Biblical nature which have never been canonical.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I really pissed off my theology teacher

as a freshman at a catholic high school. I raised my hand and asked: “Who edited the Bible? Who decided what texts were ‘divinely inspired’ and which weren’t?”

Needless to say, we butted heads my whole 4 years there….:)

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

you know what is awesome

the Pope made Limbo disappear.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

so why does it show up at parties and backyard BBQs?

everytime that damn stick shows up, I shake my damn head

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree with all of your statements here.

The Bible was massively edited, contains quotes from people who weren’t contemporaries of the authors, and has been translated twice before it got to you. No part is written by a woman. It contradicts itself often, and supports the beating of women, the keeping of slaves, and the lynching of gays, pig-touchers, and those using inappropriate farming techniques.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Fair enough.

I respect your viewpoints.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's the thing:

I stated facts, not viewpoints.

You are welcome to your own opinions and religious affiliation, and I would risk my life to defend your religious freedom.

You are welcome to your beliefs, but you are not welcome to your own facts.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree with some of your facts.

And I will admit to some others, but with some caveats.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

is this where the culture war is happening?

I want in on some of this. Praise Vishnu and his love of foreign automobiles!

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

People who drive Audis are almost always pricks

Who’s with me?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

heer heer!

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Replace Audi with Prius and I agree

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

They're not mutually exclusive

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

add bmw in there

and you are set.

the nicest people drive minivans.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

this is inaccurate

I have never met a soccer mom driving a minivan that is nice

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

most of my friends drive minivans

they’re nice.

I could introduce you.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

you should

I’ve never met anyone driving a minivan that’s nice

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, asshole! I drive a minivan!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

your point?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never met you

once that happens, I can say “I know FVA, dude’s only nice person I know that drives a minivan”

Until then, all minivan drivers are Hell incarnate on the roads

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

You can disagree with 'em, but that won't make them less true because they're still facts.

My father studied in seminary in Cincinnati
My mother used to literally be a nun in Cincinnati
My wife has a degree in Religious Studies
I was raised strict Catholic, with fasting and mass up to 4 times a week.
12 years Catholic school
1 year Jesuit college

I’m not new to religious discussion. I know the difference between a belief and a fact.

Jesus rose from the dead: belief
You’re entitled to that.

The Bible was massively edited: fact. More books were excluded than included.

Contains quotes from people who weren’t contemporaries of the authors: fact. Some of Jesus’ best quotes weren’t written down until about 80 years after his death.

The has been translated twice before it got to you: fact. Jesus spoke no English.

No part is written by a woman: fact. Insert Mary Magdelane joke here.

It contradicts itself often: fact. “turn the other cheek” vs. “an eye for an eye” and “do not judge lest you, yourself, be judged” vs the stoning of folks who are gays, pig-touchers, and those using inappropriate farming techniques.

Supports the beating of slaves: fact. Exodus 21:20-21 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod …he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Supports the beating of women, but only if they are slaves and aren’t beaten too hard.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i hear what you're saying

I really do.

But to get epistemological about it, let’s be very very specific about the difference between a fact and a belief.

Facts are things we KNOW are true, right? Like, indisputable. So, what’s really indisputable? Suppose we throw out that whole “brain in a jar” argument, and assume that we really do exist like we think we do. But still, indisputable? How do we KNOW no part was written by a woman? How do we KNOW those quotes came from non-contemporaries?

Answer: there is really good circumstantial evidence that such is the case. There is no physical evidence. There is no eyewitness testimony, even.

The point: the difference between fact and belief is a matter of degree, not of kind, and no logical argument exists that can dispute that.

(if you have one, I’d love to see it. I will steal and pilfer it from here to Kingdom Come, as it were.)

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 1:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The brain named itself

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I should point out that...

…I am not anti-Bible nor anti-religion. Whatever makes people happy and good, I’m all for.

But I felt compelled to dispute the claims that

the best-selling, most comprehensively tight book in the world is the Bible. It holds up under scrutiny

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

And it's hard to find two people who agree on just how much of it is allegory.

So it ain’t ‘tight.’

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This is, I view the Bible in the same light as I view the stories about King Arthur

Both books telling of things that happened to people a LONG time ago in a world and society nothing like the one we live in now, with a central character who is elevated to a special status because of his good deeds.

With that said, how do you think we would view people who based their moral code on wizardry and dragon slaying?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

If it's a law that doesn't offend my sense of morality,

I’ll go along with it. It may seem odd to me, but it seems odd to me too that the Bible says if someone smacks me on the face, to turn to him the other cheek.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

There's actually a (really) sweet science to it:
A literal interpretation of the passages, in which the command refers specifically to a manual strike against the side of a person’s face, can be supported by reference to historical and other factors.2 At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance.3 If the persecuted person “turned the other cheek,” the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.4 The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality.

From the Wik’

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

"The left hand was used for unclean purposes"

“JCH – The Teenage Years”

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

this is good!

but I still hate your God and your sensibilities.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Dude, you don't even know my god.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

met him, did him, had eggs with him.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

You like those sloppy seconds, do ya?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

That's the part that I have trouble with

There are very good reasons why the separation of church and state exists, and I have a lot of trouble with the notion that candidates are able to go against that and use that as a campaign platform (and that it’s actually fucking successful because of the insecurites of some voters).

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't give a shit whatsoever what people believe

It’s a very personal thing and I respect that. What I don’t respect is anyone telling me what I can and can’t do based on those beliefs. You oppose abortion? Fine, don’t get one. You oppose gay marriage? Fine, don’t get one.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

You oppose circumcision? ...

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't have a choice in the matter, and am indifferent otherwise

My son was circumcised, I weighed the medical and social aspects before giving the go ahead.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

that is SO like you, fascist!

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, that's what these people don't get

Is that basing a government off of a belief system is only convenient for those who follow that system, and everyone else can suck it. That’s not exactly what I’d call “freedom”.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

agreed.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

you guys i'm watching the greatest christmas movie of all time.

go.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Die Hard

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

you are so fucking clutch.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Like Casper Ware

And that’s an obvious answer

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

prhaps.

who the joseph takagi is casper ware

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

we need to move this to the bottom for a full discussion

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Christmas Vacation?

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand this viewpoint, but it's logically untenable

Everyone has a worldview, and all laws are based on some sort of worldview.

You oppose murder and rape? Find, don’t commit one, but don’t tell me I can’t!

That’s an extreme example, but it only sounds silly because almost everyone agrees that those things are wrong. But the fact remains that there are laws frorbidding certain things based on a view of what humany and society should be. Abortion, gay marriage, etc are (obviously) much more disagreed on, but a blanket statement of “don’t tell me what to do based on your beliefs” is unhelpful, because taken to its logical end, that leads to no laws whatsoever.

(Which, by the way, is the only logical end to secular humanism, but I digress)

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess the issue will always be where to draw the line

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

The Bible tells stories of bad things

to prove that we’re bad people. Not because it endorses it. Your local newspaper doesn’t endorse murder and rape either.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

i disagree

ive worked for newspapers for many years, and we definitely endorse murder and rape. We just like to feel SOMETHING!

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

This murder brought to you by

the Enquirer, the Courier-Journal, and the Dayton Daily News.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."

-Leviticus 20:10

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Really simplified, the old testament is about how man once had a relationship with God (Adam/Eve tight with God), man, using his free, will screwed up and lost that relationship, then man wanted some rules to follow because rules are easier than

relationships. So God gave man what he asked for and the rest of the old testament shows how there is no possible way that man can follow all the rules to be good or holy enough to deserve a relationship with God, thereby illustrating man’s need for a savior, ie: Jesus. The new testament shows the mercy and grace of Jesus towards sinners (ie: us) and that we can have a relationship with God again through the grace of God and our faith in that saving grace. John 8:4-11 is an excellent example of the old testament theology (illustrated by your quote from Leviticus) vs. new testament theology: "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"11 "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 23, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way, I'm not trying to get anyone to believe what I believe

at all. I like this blog because I think people on here can disagree about anything and everything but still respect each other and be kind to each other and that is REALLY RARE, especially on the interwebernets. I think the moderators here should be proud of the community that they have created, a community that attracts a lot of high quality, intelligent people. So can we just have one big group hug during this Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanza/Festivus season?

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 23, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, I saw that too

Also, it isn’t on youtube or Netflix. I may be reluctantly digging through my DVD collection to find it

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Guess who else is out of luck

I only have the first 6 seasons on DVD, and this is from season 9.

On second thought, look what I just found!

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you just might have a skewed viewpoint on this

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

perhaps. But then, everyone's viewpoint is skewed to some degree.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Bible would be better viewed as a collection of fables.

And those fables teach lessons. Some are good lessons, like The Golden Rule. Some are bad, IMO, like the promise/threat of eternal heaven/hell.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 3:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Like Greek Mythology?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 26, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

Noah didn’t literally herd every insect and earthworm and freshwater fish in the universe onto a boat when he was 600 years old. But the story did threaten SOME folks into being good…whichis a tactic that I am not a fan of, but some folks think that other folks need that fear to be good people.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

We should just use cattle prods instead

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 26, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you ever considered the Jeffersonian Bible?

It’s the Bible, as edited by Thomas Jefferson, with all the “Jesus Magic” taken out.

I am curious as to your take on that.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 27, 2011 3:53 AM EST up reply actions  

is this a reply to me?

because that sounds like a LOT of readin.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 27, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

He wasn't praying to end any draught.

He was praying on camera because he knew that what Texans want their elected officials to do. And at the time he thought maybe there were enough Americans in enough states important enough to the electoral college that wanted the same thing.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Nooooooo, surely you jest

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

See, I'll buy that.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

IN England, politicians apologize for referencing God.

Because, you know, that whole separation of church and state thing.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

fair enough

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the infidelity thing is an issue

But you can’t deny he’s far and away the smartest in the GOP field. I mean, who’s smarter?

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know, I was asking honestly

I was thinking maybe Romney but maybe you’re right…maybe it is Newt

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I never felt Newt was that smart

he never impressed me.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone currently in the Republican field has a chance

The top teir Republican candidates are all holding out until 2016.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This year looks a lot like 2004 for the Democrats.

A beatable incumbent, but when you look at the GOP bench there just isn’t anybody who really screams President, and Republicans aren’t terribly excited about any of them.

Mitt Romney much like John Kerry, was the early favorite based on his resume but not a terribly exciting candidte, but the Republicans try a few other candidates first who rise and fall in the poll, while Romney holds steady.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think its more 92 than 04

Because the GOP is much more divided than the 04 democrats

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Dems were pretty united in trying to oust Bush

It was the independents and the moderates who wanted to stay the course…

And Kerry was so godawful boring. I honestly think if the ticket was reversed (Edwards/Kerry), Dems may have won. Edwards was moving the needle..

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If Dean could have held his momentum for a couple of more weeks.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

But the Yeaaaaaaaghhhhhhh!

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

but the he started tanking in November

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the first part

But Edwards is the biggest slimball on the planet, he would’ve eventually screwed up.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah it would've have been a disaster

But I still think he beats Bush in 04.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Edwards is the all style and no substance politican

I think his ceiling (pre-sex scandal) was Vice-President. he looked nice and talked nice, but really he was just a moderately intelligent ambulance chaser.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Ron Paul has 0 chance of being nominated by the Republican Party

he may win Iowa, and make a strong showing in Hew Hampshire, but he won’t do well outside of those states.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno

I’ve already seen some Ron Paul signs….in Ohio. None for any of the other candidates.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

He has a very loud minority of support

but 10% really is his ceiling.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

What supporters he has are VERY passionate

Which is great, but doesn’t make up for the fact that there aren’t many of them

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

which is also why Iowa is a good state for him

his people are the most likely to go out to a meeting on a cold Iowa night.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

it would in the Chicago area.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Vote early and vote often.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

okay, Blago, and Burris were pretty not smart.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh I know

No matter how well he does, the Repubs will not allow him to win the nomination.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He'll clean up across the South, if he makes it that far.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 22, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

By 'clean up' you mean '11%'?

Maybe 13?

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree.

The lack of compromising on part of the Republican Party has been a strategy for them since Obama was inaugurated. Senator McConnell said extremely early on (a full two years before the Tea Party fad began) that his job was to make Obama a one-term president. They attempted to accomplish this through a lack of compromising.

When you have one party not bargaining in good faith, the other party is going to act idiotic too. Hence, our current situation .

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, it might be different in the commander in chief had a backbone instead of a bendy compromising one

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

That would certainly help, yes

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This is true, and to FR,

I agree, but it really ratcheted up in ‘10 when the Tea Party came to prominence. I mean, they still managed to get some form of ObamaCare passed, and now they can barely extend a wildly popular tax break for 2 months. It’s crazy.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha.

I view the Tea Party as a by-product of their electoral strategy. I don’t disagree that they currently function as a catalyst for the garbage going on now.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He's got a backbone

He just fucked up by taking too long with the Affordable Care Act.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll have to disagree

I think the healthcare act was the wrong course at that time with the economy. And as much as I like certain things about Obama, I find it hard to argue that he’s got a backbone. He came in as the great compromiser and got played by a party that was hellbent on opposing his policies, not matter how beneficial they may have seemed. Sometimes, a commander in chief needs to stiffen up and give it right back to them.

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahem.
Sometimes, a commander in chief needs to stiffen up and give it right back to them.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 22, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's the alcohol talking and vacation time and other stuff

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

He made the call to kill Bin Laden

Considering he violated the soviegnity of an ally, I think that took some balls.

There’s also quite a few conflicts going on in the Arab Spring which we are staying out of for the most part. I think restraint takes a “backbone.”

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Bin Laden definitely

But the Arab Spring, especially in Libya, was all over the map – I’m not sure what the official US policy was in that country and whether or not it actually helped in dethroning Ghadaffi

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

He also ordered of the assassination of a US citizen

Very, very, VERY not cool in my book.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well Bush started a war which killed over 4,800 Americans

So there’s that.

Also a lot of other people died and it was all done on a false pretense.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But they had that missile train!

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely different argument

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but it is fun to pin ball all over

i can’t beat you on this argument, so haha got you on this other completely unrelated thing!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

they

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

one of the 2 decisions was thought out

understanding the risks. The other was just made.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

which is which, exactly? And better yet, which is unconstitutional?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually both were unconstitutional

President can’t go to war without a declaration of war from congress, and the U.S. isn’t allowed to assassinate citizens….due process, ya know.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought this specific article was about rock and roll?

Back in the Day

Marshall stacks ruled

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not trolling, I swear

Doesn’t this qualify?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that I don't understand what you're saying,

But both the senate and the house passed resolutions in support of extended combat operations in Iraq.

by Larry Barkin on Dec 24, 2011 11:18 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Is it?

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, it is

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I go back and fourth on it

sometimes i think he is a wishy washy failure, and others I look at all the things he has done, the stimulus, health care, credit card reform, financial reform, ended don’t ask don’t tell, killed Bin Laden, and some financial reform, and the economy has found it’s bottom, around the time of the election it felt like this could have been a whole lot worse. And has dealt with an opposition that wants him to fail more than anything, and is willing to shut down the government to hurt him.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I find it hard to imagine that any president could have done much if anything more (or much of anything at all)

if half of the votes on any issue were automatic no’s.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

I’m not sure what it would have accomplished.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

The people took to the streets without Obama using the bully pulpit effectively.

If he pushed through his mandates in his first year in office, John Boehner might not be in charge of anything right now.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This is something that is truly interesting to me

in Spain, people would ask me point blank, no irony, if you aren’t happy with the government, why don’t you all just riot?

It seems like that just doesn’t happen here. It’s curious to see how other cultures view their relationship to their government, it is far different than ours.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

perhaps we believe we really do have govt of the people

so that we are more invested in it, where other countries may tend to see govt more as a separate governing class that is removed from the people

(Note: we can have a DIFFERENT argument about whether such a belief on the part of Americans is true. Or if it’s a fact. Or if there’s a difference. And beer.)

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 24, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

And when was the last time the Democrats did that?

The Democrats are a bunch of pussies who are so afraid of taking the unpopular position on anything they either say nothing or capitulate.

Remember gay marriage in the first half of the last decade?

How many nationally known Democrats came out and said they were out and out for gay marriage or civil unions? And those who previously did things for homosexuals backed away from it.

How many Democrats seriously challenged Bush on the War in Iraq at the beginning.

Where as the Republicans will challenge popular ideas and keep talking about it and talking about it, and the Democrats won’t fight back, so eventually public opinion sways to the side with the most confidence.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Kasich went ahead and signed and strongly supported SB5

even though it was immensely unpopular.

Do Democrats do things like that?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

When passed SB5 actually had support.

The pension and insurance reforms are still popular in Ohio. The bill will be chunked up and passed this winter.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Dec 23, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Pension and inusrance reform do not bother me that much

i mean they do bother me a little, in that they are trying to balance the budget on the backs of the middle class.

If he would have passed that instead of trying to outlaw public collective bargaining he would have been fine.

But he realized also that if you can kill unions you kill funding and organizing ability for the Democratic party.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

It bothers me that it wasn't fully passed.

Medicare For All.
Don’t like Medicare? Opt out.
Easy.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

are we the only industrialized country that doesn’t view healthcare as a right?

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If there was a public option, it would make many American's lives easier

Contract work? No problem.
Working 2 part time jobs that add up to over 40 hours a week, no issue.
Laid off and get sick? No big thing.

Tying healthcare to employments sucks.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

decoupling healthcare from employment

does not necessarily require a public option.

Totally agree that having them coupled sucks.

Two things scare me about actually using a public option: 1) Post Office, and 2) VA. Yikes.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 24, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I know professors who worked part time at three different universities

They worked like dogs and much harder than there full time colleagues, but the three part time jobs added up to a decent living, but they had no insurance.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

nope, not yet

that is a future dream.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 25, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I have had about 10 times more problems with UPS than I've ever had with USPS?

FedEx is alright, though.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 24, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the Post Office is a minor maricale

for less than a dollar I can send something anywhere in the country, and it can go door step to door step.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

Downside is, if they lose your stuff or tear it to shreds, they put the pieces in a bag with a note that says:

“Dear Brian, Sorry we shredded your stuff into tiny bits. We’ll try to do better next time. Love, the Post Office.”

And there’s nothing you can do, and no consequence on them.

It’s one thing when it’s my latest Economist in the bag, another when it’s my liver.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 25, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

i have never had anything seriously damaged in the mail?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 25, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet you've never mailed your liver, either

See, that’s the trick

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 25, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

VA > die years earlier

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions  

that's why you'll see consumerism

companies selling directly to individuals retail style

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I buy directly, and my insurance sucks

Really the only way it will be of value of me is if I fall down a flight of stairs and break all my limbs.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I assume you only had the option to buy a HRA or HSA

and your deductible probably isn’t small, like most of those plans

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I buy directly, and my coverage is awesome.

And it’s ridonkulously expensive.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

the whole concept is that expensive coverage from buying direct puts the responsibility on the insured

you now have to “shop around” to find the least expensive quality care if you’re paying out of pocket to meet your deductible

if you are paying a high premium that’s all co-pay based, then you’re getting what you pay for

it’s all a ploy to try and get people to lead healthier lives, to lower expenses and claims paid by the health services companies

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That is all well and good

but things need to be done to make basic health care cheaper.

If I get strep I would have to pay $60 to see my doctor, plus the cost of the antibiotic.

If there is a way to provide low cost basic care to everyone, and to make insurance for unexpected things like broken legs, heart attacks, cancer, I would feel differently about it.

The other reason I like the idea of federal provided care is in theory it could be the most efficient. When you buy insurance you are spreading the risk around. I’ve never had a claim paid for since I started buying my own insurance, but I still pay, yet I am sure there is a sick person who is getting out more than they pay in (that doesn’t bother me either that is the point of insurance). So it seems the bigger the pool the more efficient the risk is, so a federal health insurance plan if run properly would be the most efficient way of doing things.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 26, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

to the best of my knowledge, PPACA is not looking to provide a Federal subsidy to Americans and their coverage

and the Federal Government doesn’t want to process claims. Health Service companies are better at doing that than the Government, plus the fact that you would have no universal book of record to track all those covered by the new Government plan (since SSN is not a reliable method to do this).

You’d need multiple books of record for the individual, the product (think coverage or coverage offerings), claims and possibly a few others.

There’s some IT individuals on this board that will tell you that to integrate all that will be a nightmare, which is why it’s more fiscally responsible to have the current Health Service companies process claims.

I understand where you’re coming from in terms of pooled risk, but that’s why you have different levels of plans and coverage, from HMO to PPO, to HRA to HSA. HMOs and PPOs put the risk on the Health Services companies, whereas HRAs and HSAs put the risk on the insured.

Federal provided care just wouldn’t be the most efficient, and not even remotely. And you mentioned basic care.. What does that entail? How or what do you define basic care?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

We could all agree on a base level of coverage.

And lots of IT work done in America would be a good thing for the economy, not a bad thing.

And your defeatist attitude that “it’d be a nightmare” is exactly why big shit doesn’t get done in this country. People with that attitude are the people that the motivated push out of their way on the journey to success and innovation.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

once we implement the IT piece of it, what happens to the redundant jobs?

hard to repurpose those jobs.. a system implementation is a fairly specialized gig

If we were to try and implement 1 Federal system, and merge multiple IT systems from multiple Health Services companies, it would be a ridiculously risky project to undertake, due to the fact that you’d have the following things to consider for solution:

System Architecture
Master Data Management
Claim Engines
Billing Engines (think AR)
Payment Engines (think AP)
Books of Record
Data Warehouses and Storage (different than MDM)
HIPPA compliance and data masking
Information Protection
Network Infrastructure & Operations
.. not to mention that you most likely couldn’t buy an out of the box / off the shelf solution like SAP or Oracle and try and implement that for an entire country.. You’d need too many custom extensions (aka bolt ons) and custom configurations of those software packages.

If you were able to successfully pull off such a project, it would probably take at least 5 years, but possibly in the 6-7 range. Could we get both parties to agree upon the scope, budget, and timeline of such a project, the holy trinity of project management? The scope absolutely would be a nightmare, b/c whomever you select as your systems integrator (most likely one of Deloitte or Accenture as they are the best in the industry in that area of expertise) they’ll fight with you over scope. The budget, you’re now controlled by Congress and getting budget passed, so good luck getting we’ll call it an 8 year project signed off by both parties to the appropriate budget to implement properly. And as for timeline, this would be a project that has a Government entity, so do you really think it would happen on time?

And what do you do with parallel systems in the meantime before you cut over to the new system? The old systems won’t be 100% like the new system, so how to you then map over the redundancy and eliminate projected re-work?

Lastly, what do you do with all the employees of those Health Services companies? Aetna has 34K employees. United HealthCare has 87K, WellPoint has almost 38K, and Cigna has almost 32K. That’s 197K employees, and doesn’t even account for Blue Cross Blue Shield. What do you do with all of those employees? Turn some of them into Government employees to run this new system? You can’t sustain keeping all of those probably 225K (estimating the Blues employees) employees employed by the Government, b/c in order to take them from the private to the public you’d have to keep them salaried at roughly what they are making, so taxes just go up to pay for Government employees, and then near the end of this new system implementation you won’t need all of those IT professionals, so you’d go from a current estimated workforce of 225K to only needing maybe roughly a workforce in the 50-60K range. You’ve now put between 165-175K people out of work in America. Which political party would ever want to do such a thing?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

you should read it though sometime

all really good stuff

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Government will never, nor should never run Health Services in America

if they do, they’s gonna put a shit ton of people out of jobs

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 27, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

This argument always intrigues me

Even though the current system is inefficient at best and morally reprehensible at worst, we must maintain it because rectifying it would cost jobs.

I know it’s an extreme analogy, but its like we had a multi-billion dollar industry employing a million people and all they did was dump poison into lakes and rivers. We would keep dumping poison in the rivers, because the most important thing is the welfare of the people profiting from that poison.

This same argument applies to the coal industry.

To be clear, I’m not taking a side one way or another on this issue, but rather just pointing out an interesting flaw in this particular aspect of the argument.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 27, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

And the military

If the US completely withdrew from the middle east tomorrow, where the fuck are all those people going to work?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 27, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd love to bring all the soldiers home and spend the same amount of money on them...

…in their new jobs in law enforcement, firefighting, and government-run healthcare.

Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think there are more than enough cops, especially cops with military attitudes

It’s not actually the soldiers you have to worry about. They’re guaranteed to get their job back; it’s the people who have been doing their job while they’re gone that get the axe.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, Cincinnati cops are a bad example.

Also, cops’ attitudes fade away when you attach video cameras to them. I can’t believe LA and Cincy have not adopted this idea as a pilot program.

Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 29, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

and what qualifications or skillset would those soldiers have to work in government-run healthcare?

and since you’ve now brought all the troops home and given them jobs, what are you going to do with the people whom you just put out of a job with that government-run healthcare?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 30, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

eliminating 165-175K jobs I think might be slightly catastrophic to 'Merica

but maybe that’s just me..

And that’s not just IT jobs, but total jobs within the big 4 Heath Services companies, as well as the Blues..

How do you achieve consolidation without the massive job elimination? Not all of those jobs have a transferable skillset. Some of the IT folks you can find new jobs, as well as the accountants, and marketing people, PR, legal, communications, but where do they work?

Unfortunately there’s some very specialized folks that work in Health Services, and where do they go for new work?

How do you create 165-175K new jobs when ’Merica is currently struggling to create jobs in general?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 27, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the big question, isn't it?

The backbone of our economy is inefficiency and moral ambiguity. There is no way out that doesn’t cut away much of the extraneous fat. It’s an impossible conundrum.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 27, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So how do we fix the inefficiency?

It has to start with the Government, which is one of the least efficient operations around.

And explain moral ambiguity please. I’m asking genuinely, as I want to completely understand your POV.

IMO, one of the only out of the box solutions is to have scientific advancement and technology create new industries and sectors to then repurpose the “fat”.

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 27, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

What I mean by inefficiency

is that a large chunk of our economy is in pragmatically useless or overall harmful industries. They are an easy target nowadays, though not without good cause, but the financial industry makes billions of dollars a year just for pushing money from here to there and charging interest for doing it. Its not a healthy and constructive way to build an economy, kind of like eating a snickers when what you really need is a balanced breakfast.

As for the moral ambiguity part, what I mean is that in the cases of the health services industry or the coal industry, billions of dollars are made while making people’s lives (overall) worse. Or to be more specific, in the case of the health services industry, there is a clearly morally better option though we nevertheless choose the current, morally worse way.

But again, I have no idea how to right these wrongs without tearing the entire thing down and starting over. That is clearly not an option. At least, we won’t be doing that deliberately. Though I’m fairly certain that this house of cards won’t stand much longer.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 28, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm still not getting the moral ambiguity part..

Health Services companies make money, yes. I get that. How do those companies make people’s lives overall worse?

What is the clearly morally better option?

How are we currently morally worse?

Danke

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 30, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

There's no doubt the transition would be rough

Theoretically, companies would be free to create more jobs if they didn’t have to allocate so much for healthcare. I think that would happen in the long-run. There would be a lot of pain in the short-run, and no politician wants to be around for that. So it’s a moot point.

by ken on Dec 28, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

so you're saying that current companies could expand their employee roster if they didn't have to subsidize employee health insurance?

that sounds like hiring people just for the sake of hiring people if you had the extra money, no?

Do you need an optimally staffed workforce based on work that needs done? No need to have 2 people do a job if only 1 is necessary. A task or day to day job description should take up 7-9 hours of a person’s day. If you have enough work to demand more people for that role, then by all means hire more, but if you have 1 specific task and it takes up 1 person’s day, and you hire a 2nd then each person may only have 4-5 hours of work each day, and then what do they do with the remainder of their day?

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 30, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

For example – say the average annual cost of a new employee is 100k, when you consider salary, benefits, overhead, etc. If you don’t have to pay for health insurance, the cost goes down to 90k.

Now say hiring an extra worker will boost your productivity/bottom line to the tune of 85k, and the decision becomes obvious.

These are obviously hypothetical numbers, but I’m sure there are companies and industries that would benefit from hiring more people, if they didn’t have to pay so much for health insurance coverage.

by ken on Dec 30, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

while I'm not sure how much companies are constrained by total cost of benefits

I cannot and will not dismiss the validity of your logic, and I do agree with it on some level.

Where you lost me was the boosted productivity and bottomline from the extra worker. I’d have to see some ROI numbers for that to really gel. I’d also have to see the business case for bringing on more employees to show that it would actually benefit the company.

But you are spot on that hiring new employees is cost prohibitive when it comes to providing them health insurance

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 30, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not interested in saving corporate jobs to maintain a status quo that sucks.

What about the people who work in video rental? What about the people who made cassette tapes? What about the people making ethanol? What about the jobs of people making pagers? What about the people’s jobs in the Vietnam war…shouldn’t we protect THOSE jobs?

It’s a really weak argument to keep an industry intact so that they can continue to provide shitty, sometimes-damaging service at a profit when the government has shown it can provide well-reviewed health care through Medicare at 1% overhead. Take out profit margin, advertising, and bloated salaries, and there’s a lot of room for improved health.

And just because something has run poorly in the past does not mean that it will always run poorly in the future. We don’t handle welfare as poorly as we did in the early 80’s…GASP! Government IMPROVED!!

Not a bad summery but in the future use paragraphs. - Elbow Patches

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

jobs shouldn't be saved for the sake of saving jobs, I completely agree

but what is the basis of your claim for the “sometimes-damaging service” provided by health services companies?

Medicare isn’t the answer for a Federal health service company, as they’ve proven they don’t provide a proper level of care and coverage.

At the end of the day it really should be about the health, well-being, and sense of security about each individual, and the government cannot and will never never fundamentally shift their focus to such a notion.

Health Service companies and the Government both need refining and retooling, as neither are getting it right in its current state, but you have a better chance to mandate or change regulations against the Health Service companies to drive change than to blow them all up and make it a Super Medicare.

At a high level, from a business process and then technology standpoint, you’d have no hope of ever combining all of the current Health Service companies into a Super Medicare, however you could regulate how the processes should be to drive an industry best practices.

The Government has already taken a big step with the PPACA stuff, which you’ll see in 2012 with the Minimum Loss Ratio, which all Health Service companies have had to aggressively address.

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 30, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

When pre-existing conditions exist, there is no shopping around.

Knowing that I could not reasonably leave their plan due to pre-existing conditions, Blue Cross doubled my rates for no reason other than profiteering. I paid them when I was healthy. I got sick and they fucked me over. It should not be legal. This is the outcome of less regulation in a society that has no health coverage…even though we all need it.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget that only in the past year

Have half the votes been an automatic no’s. The first two years of his presidency the house and senate were both sporting democratic majorities.

by Larry Barkin on Dec 24, 2011 11:02 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Sorta

The Republicans are much more discipline then the Democrats, so even when the President’s party controlled both the House and Senate with decent margins, a lot of middle of the road Democrats did not vote with the President.

Also even in the minority the Republicans have used a lot of procedural methods to block things. Obama has had a hard time getting under secretaries approved.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

#RonPaul4Prez

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

no he's not

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I was playing off the Ron Price meme

edsbs’d

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm an asshole

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Not if you love edsbs...

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

My love for edsbs doesn't make me an asshole

Its the other things

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Loving Kentucky will do that to a man

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Loving the UNIVERSITY of Kentucky will do that to a man

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Ron Paul is crazy in his own special way too

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Ron Paul

He’ll say one thing one minute that makes sense, and you’re all “Hey, this guy is smart!”

Then the next minute he’ll say something batshit crazy, and you’re all “The fuck is wrong with this guy?”

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What views does he have that are batshit crazy?

He has some views that are a bit extreme, and I wouldn’t say crazy.

Now Santorum, Bachman, Newt…..thems the crazies.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

um, gold standard?

Look, the bankers are jerks and should go to jail. I get that, and I agree.

But going to a gold standard would literally put a lot of Americans out of work within months.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand the issues with changing to a gold standard

But by the same token, right now our currency is backed by nothing.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

My wife's ascendant was McCulloch, the guy who got us off the gold standard.

Man, she’s got some stupid dudes in her family.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

ISWYDT

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

She said, "I got my OWN damn gold standard, Petey!"

“Put a ring on it!”

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I AM the gold standard!

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

"Hey, honey.. why don't we get off the gold standard tonight?"

Hummina hummina.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Right

So, because we want it backed by something of value, we’ll give up all of the flexibility that fiat currency gives us in order to back it with a shiny, hard metal that you can eat, you can build with, and you can’t keep warm with.

It does have some excellent physical properties for scientific instruments, but I don’t think that’s going to help much after the nuclear apocalypse.

When, btw, the gold will be radioactive and deadly.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Flexibility like printing more and more and more

and complete devalue it? Yeah, those green pieces of paper won’t do you any good after the apocalypse either.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, he's a nut

But he really, truly believes every crazy ass thing he says. Which is refreshing in this day and age.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I respect that part about him, definitely

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

That nut

also happens to be leading the polls in Iowa right now….

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, well, this time in 2008

It was looking like Hillary vs. Guliani. Still a long way to go.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I hear ya.

But if 365 days from now Obama hasn’t just defeated Romney, well…

You can link back to this comment and say I was wrong.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

365 days from now there could be martial law

or cats and dogs living together!!!

/12/21/2012’ed

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

mass hysteria!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Gulliani had crashed long before this time

and Hillary never crashed in 2008, but by November or even October of 2008 it was pretty clear that the Democrats had a race on their hands.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Iowa is crazy conservative

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

at least like Gary Johnson, he is a much better libertarian.

I don’t know why he can’t debate, I know he has like 1% approval ratings, but he was governor of New Mexico, and I would think holding a major office like Governor should get you into the debate.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

He’s the only current Presidential candidate who is serious about ending the “War” on drugs….he’s the only current presidential candidate who will speak out in defense of civil liberties….he’s the only current presidential candidate who speaks out against the United States’ destructive foreign policy.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Gary Johnson exists!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I was referring to Ron Paul

But I’m sure Gary Johnson also shares these positions as well

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

He's also the only one who can beat Obama.

If he loses the primary, he will probably run 3rd party and receive around 10 percent of the vote, making Obama the winner.

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt it.

If he gets the Republican nomination, it’ll be through a highly contested battle in which he’d alienate half of his base. They won’t show up. The end result will be Obama having an even greater margin of control of congress than when he was first elected.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

When I say "can", I mean that he at least has a chance.

when everybody is around and we're swinging for long bombs away, how do we come around to know - man, this really is what it's for?

by DannyGraves on Dec 22, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with that too.

Romney can beat Obama if he runs a disciplined enough campaign.

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I think Romney could beat him

There are a LOT of independents who feel Obama sold them a bill of goods….they didn’t think Obama would basically just be a continuation of Bush. Whoever can trick the independents this year wins it.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Romney is the Kerry of 2012

Decent enough of a candidate on paper, but he’s about to lose an election that he could win if he was more likable.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Or, you know, what jutsin said above

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

he is a sophmore or junior in high school.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, yes.

I support a different politician than you, so that means I’m less educated. Classic argument.

by sexsalad on Dec 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Ron Paul lives in a Pre-Cival War era of the roles of government

I agree with some of his positions, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I would argue he wants the constitution to be respected

And for the government to not overstep its bounds. You want the government to do more? Then amend the constitution.

I think many of his ideas would never fly, but at the same time I get the feeling that he’s one of the few candidates that actually has convictions and stands by them, rather than being available to the highest bidder.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know

his district gets a ton of pork.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, they all get pork to some extent

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

pretty much

it is insane to think that the federal government has no role in regulating multinational corporations.

Would you get on an airplane without the FAA to keep the plane safe and the federal government providing security regulations?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't want to fly in an airplane right now

Because I still believe in the concept of the fourth amendment, and I don’t believe in a federal government trampling those rights in an effort to provide security theater. Invasive gropings or going through an scanner that airports all over Europe have deemed unsafe? No thanks.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

he's the 99%!

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I AM one of the 99%

but I do have money to fly. But with all the hassle of flying, if I can drive to my destination in a day, I’m driving.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Not everyone

I know plenty of people who will fly to Chicago or fly to Atlanta from SW Ohio.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

it depends on price

and where I am going.

If I am going to Chicago, and I can get a ticket for $100, I’ll fly, simply because I am looking at $55 in gas alone, and not dealing with a car in Chicago, even if I have relatively cheap parking, is worth the other $45.

I don’t think I would even consider driving to New York City, again I don’t want to deal with my car in that city. This is where the lack of decent rail options sucks.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Not I, if the price is doable at all

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Ditto.

It’s 5 hours to Vega$, and I always prefer to fly.

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

people you are losing your touch!

jch or justin or whoever, show us THE TRAINS!

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Red Reporter is the liberal media elite

Just deal with it.

Also all of the people listed are dumb.

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a conservative, small-government, Republican, evangelical Christian.

I am the RR 1%.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 22, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You should really check out the new Black Star Amps...


Bitchin’, but not terribly evangelical…

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Bringing work home, eh Mads?

Missed ya last night. Was all prepped to tell you how wrong you were about Mat Latos.

#wasntactuallygoingtosayanything

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 22, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I blame jch and ash and Hawkeye and BK for caving into obc and moving the burger fest to a Wednesday.

BTW – I like Laktos…I just don’t think we shoulda given up Yonder for him. Now Walt’s gone and given away Travis Wood…Christ on a penguin…

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

My name is Francie and I'm a conservative, small-government, Liberterian, Christian.

“Hi Francie”

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 23, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

My name is Petey, and I'm a fiscally-conservative, socially-liberal, non-religious Libertarian.

I feel that the Republican Party has left me standing alone on a centrist shore while they went out with the tide to battle against non-Christians, unions and the working poor.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Hi, Petey!

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

the Republican Party as a whole frustrates me

I’m registered with them, but eh, I dunno.. I’ve never aligned with the religious right, and the Tea Party is just a different animal to me entirely..

I seriously just want smaller government, stronger foreign policy, more consistent tax policies (and this isn’t more taxes vs. less taxes), economic growth, social programs that actually work, and something ideologically at the end of the day rooted in Federalism

neither party “gets” it right now, nor are they trying to improve anything.. they are too busy pointing the finger across the aisle saying “oh, look at what they are doing..”

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you on this

I used to vote almost exclusively Republican until I got totally fed up with them. I think both parties are two sides of the same coin. I agree more with the Libertarian point of view of small federal government, personal responsibility, states rights, etc. I’ve been told that I’m “wasting” my vote by voting for Libertarians because they won’t get elected. I don’t care because I’d rather do that and be happy with my choice, whether they win or lose.

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 24, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I've heard the same "you're wasting your vote" schpeel

few Democrats have ever gotten it right in my book, and the Republicans continually leave me shaking my damn head

While I’m happy with my voting choices, it’s frustrating to watch plurality play out and then have to adhere to policies I just don’t agree with from both Democrats and Republicans

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 24, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Being able to vote your conscience in a free democracy...

…is never a “waste.”

Besides, not voting for douchebag or turdsandwich says that you showed up, informed, and chose OTHER.

And like a single letter to a TV station, you represent many, many people who almost chose OTHER for the same reasons, and many people who stayed home. And those numbers are counted very specifically, and many dollars are spent analyzing those results.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

And if everybody who wanted to vote OTHER but didn't cuz it was a "waste"

decided to, they’d come in at some 25% or something,and people would see, hey, it’s not so much a waste after all, maybe it has a chance.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 26, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Excellent points

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 26, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

In 2004 I heard Howard Dean speak at Miami University

he was advocating run off elections. He claims that they would both strengthen 3rd parties and decrease negative campaigning. In the first round voters wouldn’t be afraid that if they really vote for who they want to win, the person they really hate with the D or the R next to their name would win instead. Negative campaigning would decrease because candidates wouldn’t want to throw mud at each other because they might need their support in the runoff election.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 26, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

IRV/alternative voting would help America tremendously.

This is where you vote for the candidate you want, and you also vote for a second and third choice. If your first choice is not one of the top 2, then your vote transfers to your 2nd choice. If your 2nd choice also doesn’t make the top 2, your vote goes to your 3rd choice.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=114276378592598&comments

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

which is why I always vote for the candidate I want

rather than against who I don’t want to see in office

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 26, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

take out evangelical Christian..

and you and I are not too far apart

although I’m more aligned with the Libertarians

The ends justify the means

by Highlifeman21 on Dec 23, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I am convinced Mitch Williams is the product of obsessive inbreeding.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

he also said that Shane Victorino was the best CF'er

in the NL because he’s won 3 Gold Gloves

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat

by -ManBearPig on Dec 22, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He also thought he could throw one past this guy

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

That's right, he gave up that home run, didn't he?

If I remember right, that was an important moment in the life of a 10 year old Joey Votto, So indirectly, we have Mitch Williams to thank for Joey Votto’s awesomeness..

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Mitch Williams did serve his purpose in life!

Good! But now he can go away, unless he is inspiring future generations of announcers/analysts to be as different as possible from him. That would be a good thing too.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

He probably wouldn't understand bra sizing either

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 22, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

but it's sabermetrics for boobs

And he’s definitely a boob!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 22, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I asked it for you. :)

Good one, Phillipe.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask him why he hates puppies

Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

@btcoop71

by btcoop71 on Dec 22, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

or baby giraffes

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

geez, it's like my third tweet ever

but even I know a troll when I see it.
:)

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

that is most definitely how trailers should be

get you pumped for the film without revealing much plot

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 22, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I lurv this

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

green'd

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 22, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Stole that shit right outta the gods' backyard cookout.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Whatever, Fay.

This is Red Reporter. We gonna make announcements allllll night long.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Cards get Beltran for two years

MLBTR says so.

Darn.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 7:56 PM EST reply actions  

well fuck ball cocks

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

WRONG

NOW NEXT YEAR IS HOPELESS AND THE REDS SHOULD JUST PLAY FOR DRAFT PICKS

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

MLBTR hasn't reported anything yet

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The deal is for $26M for 2 years

$13M a year for an aging, injury-prone outfielder? No thank you.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

I'm holding my tongue after Lance Berkman 2011

but here’s hoping we were a year early on that and right on time with Beltran.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 22, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Certainly out of the Reds price range

But between this and Wainright returning, the Cards might be better in 2012 than they were in 2011, even sans Pujols.

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

They say he'll play CF after Craig returns

That could get ugly.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 22, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Wainwright won't be Wainwright, at least not for the first half

Carpenter, Berkman, Molina and even Beltran all a year older.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

And Lance Berkman is fat and old and will suck

/2011’d

At this point, they still look like a better team than the Reds.

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying Berkman will suck

But if they’re counting on him putting up the same numbers he put up last year, they’re fooling themselves. I’d say the two teams are pretty evenly matched right now.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty even, I agree

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

There's something to this.

They won the whole thing but then their two Hall of Fame ‘faces of the franchise’ walked.

I now consider them just another good team we’re gonna have to beat a few times next year.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, lots of health risks with that team

Beltran, Berkman, Craig, Freese, Furcal – none are a good bet to play 130 games.

by ken on Dec 22, 2011 8:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I hear that Carpenter causes cancer

And NeckTat is a leading cause of chlamydia.

And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, if both Berkman and Beltran play more than 130 games, I'mma cut a bitch

Karma owes that team major payback after what happened to them in September/October

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think Berkman will play over 130 at 1b

I mean, he has to, right?

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The Baseball Gods love the Cardinals

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 22, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It's an overpay...

I was only willing to offer $25 million for 2 years. It’s not like we were going all in or anything…

/needanewfixation

Trying to pull off "having no money and talking to no one" as well as the Reds have.

by badenjr on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Cardinals are going to suck

I think a GREAT player like Pujols makes everyone else around him better. His value to that team wasn’t just in WAR.

Just look at what he did for Berkman

@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

No way are the Cardinals going to suck

Their pitching is (much?) better than ours and their offense is almost as good.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

not much, but better

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

If Carpenter stays healthy, I think it's noticeably better.

Their bullpen is probably better as well. Keep in mind that Arroyo is going to be in our rotation come hell or high water!

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Wainwright will not be above-average in 2012.

No one bounces back instantly from TJ.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He will be awesome second half

and suck in the first half. You heard it here third.

With any luck, the Cardinals will get frustrated and trade him to us for Mike Leake in late June.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 24, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I like (M)ike

Also I think if Wainwright struggles in the first half, he won’t be able to go deep into the second half. Who many starters make 30+ starts there first year back from TJS? I really don’t know, if feels that usually the surgery comes later than spring training, and they don’t return until June or so, so they don’t have a full season of work their first year back.

Knowing nothing I would kinda think I would consider shutting him down in September, especially if I am out of the race.

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 24, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Shut up you commie pinko fag racist homophobe

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuck that. I hope he calls it off.

I’m busy drinking beer and playing FIFA.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

What team/league do you play as?

Chelsea’s 19 yr old striker (name?) turns into a complete badass in that game.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 9:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Sturridge?

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Lukaku?

I’m rocking’ Napoli at the moment. Love ’em.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 22, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Lukaku, that's the one

Dude was all-universe for me by the time he was 21

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 22, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

He's sick, as is th rest of the Belgian team.

Vermaelen, Vertognen, Hazard, Lukaku, Romeu, DeFour, Fellaini….they’re loaded with young legit stars.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 23, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Playng on easy mode is pretty damn cathartic

Through 3/4 of the season, Charlie Davies has like 30 goals.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 22, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

You conveniently left out the part where 26 of them are PKs that he had to dive to get

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't like defending him

But he isn’t a diver

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

And that's a shame

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Why can't you see?

You’re the only girl, you’re the one for me.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Any Football Manager fans?

Just bought it last week, and I’m hooked so far

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 22, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You'll hardly recognize it, honestly

I have the last couple and they keep adding big stuff to it year after year. It’s amazing.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

So this is my first time playing the game and I was wondering how to develop a good training regimen

I’m playing as Blyth in Blue Square Bet North and fighting for promotion. I’m in 3rd (or thereabouts) with ~10 to play

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 22, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never developed one myself

I usually go through the FM forums and find one that works, assign my players, go get good coaches and forget about it. I really need to learn more about that, but I’ve found that it doesn’t matter much as long as you give your players time in the first team.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

I tried downloading some from a forum, but they are all “grayed out” when I try to put a player on one of the schedules

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

I’ve got a pretty bitchin’ Italian game going on right now.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 22, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

by darthmom on Dec 22, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

yyyyyyyyup

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 23, 2011 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah!

They’re sure awesome! Much better than dumb old politics.

by crolfer on Dec 22, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Who played in 'Shut Up Punko" ?

Back when I was on the road I played through Orange Amps.

Oh that’s Pinko…

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

that is a sweet setup

as a merely amateur musician, I have only the virtual Line6 version. Didn’t know the speakers themselves were orange.

that rocks.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh right on, I have a Line6 solid state

Yeah, if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go

by DerekH91 on Dec 23, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Orange amps back in the day - 4-12 cabinets with totally tube diven 100 watt heads.

One head to rule them all,
One head to find them,
One head to bring them all
and in the Rockness bind them.

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 23, 2011 5:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's a discussion on the utopian ideals of a fascist regime that was able to make the trains run on time

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Dec 22, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Go Colts!

Screw up the No. 1 overall pick, and help the Bengals strength of victory!

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:36 PM EST reply actions  

Which game?

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok thats not bad

If it involved seeing the Rams, I’d tell ya to ditch your ticket….they suck

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You should probably find a Carson Palmer jersey

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That reminds me!

I need to get a John Skelton jersey!

by FordhamRam on Dec 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather have a Red Skelton jersey

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, how do you not already have one?

You are literally the only person excited about John Skelton

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly, I own one of those

Yet I don’t own a Reds jersey. Sad but true.

by ams78 on Dec 22, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Prepare to be disappointed

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going with my best friend.

We should be able to sufficiently entertain ourselves.

by crolfer on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I've seen him before.

Yeah, he’s cute but damn, he’s just selling Bud Light. Get that shit anywhere.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember those bottles

Of course, I remember the ones before those too.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 22, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow Colts just got screwed

a personal foul on a pass play…..saying helmet-to-helmet on defenseless receiver…but defender was going for the ball and it was incidental contact.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 11:02 PM EST reply actions  

Took the family to see 'The Muppets' tonight.

It was good but not great and I guess I was kind of expecting ‘great.’

It did however restore my faith in those ‘Flight of the Conchords’ DVDs that someone bought me but I’ve only ever watched once.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:18 PM EST reply actions  

It's funny, I can't even remember who got them for me or when.

Short term memory done gone.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 22, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I had the same reaction

Muppets was good, but was hoping for more

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep so did Joey Votto

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Which muppet is Rick Perry in this ad?

this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Rick Perry is to Snuffleupagus as the GOP is to Big Bird.

How about you agree to waive the fine and I promise not to email you the remaining eighty six photos of my dog dressed as a bear.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 23, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't vote for Snuffleupagus for president.

But I would appoint him to the Supreme Court if he passed my litmus test.

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?

by andromache on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I always pictured him for a cabinet position.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Wrong wrong.

Director of National Intelligence.

It was years before anyone other than Big Bird ever got a glimpse of the guy. He’s like the protocol for a ghost.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

TOUCHDOWN Colts!

Up 19-16 with 19 seconds remaining.

"There's only one god, and his name is Death. And what do we say to Death? Not today!" --- Syrio Forel, Game of Thrones

by cesarhernandez on Dec 22, 2011 11:23 PM EST reply actions  

Hey boobs, what's the greatest Christmas movie?

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

Die Fucking Hard.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Can't argue this

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Money? What kind of terrorists are you?

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Ho. Ho. Ho.

I have a machine gun.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

That sounds vaguely NC-17.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Is Die Hard a Christmas movie, or a movie set during Christmas?

I’d say Christmas movie, but I can see both sides.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

You answered your own question, because those two things are not mutually exclusive

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

well said, sir.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

id not make a distinction, honestly.

does this make me part of the culture war?

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope, you're like a culture pacifist, man.

Peace and love, man.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Gremlins?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

And we can't forget Christmas Vacation

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

.

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

x

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

x

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I love that quote

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

It's my second favorite.

My favorite being, “We’re gonna have the hap-hap-happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tapdanced with Danny F$@*ing Kaye!”

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

i watched white christmas tonight

it had NOTHING to do with christmas. But I saw the tiniest waist ever on a human.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

dang

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Danny and Bing are impressed as well.

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

huh.

Vera-Ellen. She’s from Norwood.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I live a mile or two from Norwood

If you can find me a legal girl with that figure in a two mile radius, I’ll kiss yer ass.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i've literally never seen a woman with a body like that before

also, fun trivia: Vera-Ellen had a child in 1963, who then died of SIDS, and Vera retreated from the public eye after that and died in 1981 at the age of 60. So it has a happy ending!

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

whew....I thought it might end badly from the anorexia

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 25, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

oh no, it was from the cancer!

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 25, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

Both of the female leads in White Christmas are locals. I get that tidbit from my Dad every time we watch that movie. It’s one of his many “Did I ever tell you?”s.

by the finest muffins on Dec 23, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a good movie, as is Holiday Inn, it's predecessor, which is actually, sort of, about Christmas

But prepare yourself for the Bing Crosby blackface routine. It still kinda shocks me and I’ve seen that movie probably 10 times.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Dec 23, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

YES

I mean, I understand it was a long time ago, but it’s still jarring as all hell.

And one of White Xmas/Holiday Inn has a grand propaganda montage. Another reminder of its time.

by ken on Dec 23, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I like seeing things like that, it serves as a reminder of how far we've come

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

that's why I like those "Freaks of Cock" guys

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

word

We have a long way to go before everyone in our society is treated properly.

But it was soooooooooooo much worse not that long ago.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt

not long ago at all, really

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 23, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

that really is amazing

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 26, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

boobs is watching the greatest Christmas movie of all time

I’m guessing it’s Home Alone.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

top 25 i guess.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

although i've seen it more than any movie ever.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Home Alone?

On a side note me and the boy were watching the Louisville game the other night and someone in the crowd was holding up a McCauley Caulking head sign in the crowd and I had to explain to the boy what the reference was.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I saw that!

i mentioned it to my father.

You were just a rich girl only having fun. Your worn out dresses brought stares from everyone. Hey little rich girl, where did you go wrong?

by boobs on Dec 23, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

It all starts and ends with Bad Santa for me.

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Another great one

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Culture war!!

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 1:04 AM EST reply actions  

This is grand!

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 23, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

May the Schwartz be with you, Petey!

"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK

by ZJiff30 on Dec 23, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

And also with Jews!

"if you want to sound like god, Orange is the way to go" - DerekH91

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 26, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions  

nobooooooodddyyyy knowwwwwwwwwws

the trouble I’ve seeeeeen

Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

by UncleWeez on Dec 23, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

all right since we are officially out on Beltran, new plan:

Yankees sign Cepedes and now have surplus of outfielders. They could also use some pitching. Arroyo and a prospect or two for Swisher. Boom and done.

by vottomatic on Dec 23, 2011 2:05 AM EST reply actions  

are you smoking pot crolfer?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 2:24 AM EST up reply actions  

are you trying shrooms Crolfer?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

dropping E?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions  

you smoke?

Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

by Yossarian22 on Dec 23, 2011 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I have done it twice.

I talked lots about how beautiful everything was.

by crolfer on Dec 23, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Shooting speed?

Popping oxys?
Snorting coke?

by DerekH91 on Dec 23, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

/vintage crolfer

"Aroldis Chapman is a seven course meal followed by four hours of sex on the table with a nymphomaniac model heiress who owns her own brewery." - jch24

by BK on Dec 23, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Keith Law
Cubs to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today.

The fuck?

by crolfer on Dec 23, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

Indeed

I don’t mind Sappelt, but what the heck Walt. Torreyes was an actual prospect.
They better be taking some of his salary.

by RedStalk on Dec 23, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I do not like Torreyes being traded!

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Dec 23, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

There better be an extension. Otherwise this trade is just fucking ridiculous.

I don’t even like it with an extension anymore.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

by BigBabyBruce on Dec 23, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

New story

Front page’d and all that.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Dec 23, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I c'd it so I could read it later, actually

I stayed out of it, but I still found it interesting. One of the only places on the internet I’ve ever seen where people will debate about stuff like religion/politics in mostly good faith.

by pack_fan on Dec 24, 2011 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

idiot

geez, what do you know. shut up, moran.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Dec 25, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

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