Meanwhile back in Walt's Phoenix home office...
by Excalib8 on Dec 21, 2011 3:18 AM EST
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PrintUncle Walt is giving the Red what they need to rise from the ashes of 2011. Before addressing left field, he is determined to solidify the bullpen at the cost of starting pitching leftovers. Talks are on with the Cubs and apparently are very close in the midnight hours. Sean Marshall is the trade target in mind. Last year he served as a 8th inning guy to Marmal.
via www.blogcdn.com
Sean will be a free agent after the 2012 season, but could be reasonable to re-sign making a modest 3.1M in 2011. That's a quarter of Coco's salary last year and he will likely be just as good. That's much closer to a small market team's available payroll for a closer and this guy is in no way a bad player to want want on your team. I get that much.
But what Walt is willing to give up is what I don't get. Travis Wood, his six years of club control, and two prospects seems a tad high to get the deal done with a reliever. I could see this trade for Marmal or Marshall and Darwin Barney. But this shit is bananas. Unfortunately, division premiums usually make for weighted trades like this and are almost never worth the dismantling involved. (starts the over-reactor). Just like our last trade with the Padres, Walt is ready to make a move now at any cost that isn't green or on a MasterCard with the name Castellini on it.
One would hope the prospects would be blocked players like Denis Phipps or roster fillers like Daniel Dorn. Removing our roster waste kinda seems to be Walt's thing as of lately and I really hope he plans to make the most of it by filling it with star level talent from around the league. Walt seems to be making such dramatic moves because this team will be rebuilding in 3 years after Jo-eh leaves. I for one am glad we have a General Manager that can see this division is for the taking and Walt has the balls to take it from those South Milwaukee and those whinny little bitches.
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Hey, Sean. Wanna be our closer?
This would give us two legit lefties in the pen. Dude’s pretty sick.
this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin
Yeah, Walt and Dusty said they are both opposed to a communal closer
I can’t see how they would make a move like this for anything but a closer as far as relievers are involved.
Sorry Coco.
crashtestnipplechip citymoron
no no no no
dont do it walt! thats really selling low on wood and he’d leave after this year? sign someone like brad lidge and see how it goes for a month or two before we trade the farm for a soon to be free agent
"God has blessed me and I will continue to do my best for him. This is more important than anything I could do in baseball." -Albert Pujols
We kinda have starting pitching locked up for a while
Between the Bronson extension, Chapman deal, Mike Leake’s club control, a few years of Cueto, and 4 years of Latos.
crashtestnipplechip citymoron
There's no such thing as too much pitching.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 21, 2011 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, does no one remember the popular sentiment entering 2011?
We are 8 deep in legit starting pitchers!! Maybe 9 if you count Maloney!! Woo!
Umm, last year we had two legit starting pitchers, as it turned out.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
And Travis Wood was not one of them.
this post has some syntax and apostrophe issues - jutsin
by PeteyHendrix on Dec 21, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
but in 2010 he was
I’m just saying we are dealing from a position of weakness.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I don't remember it being "legit" starting pitchers
The way I remember it, the sentiment was more:
“Hey, there’s 8 guys with a chance of being legit starting pitchers. We only need 5 of them to pan out. Those are pretty good odds!”
As in so many things last year, unfortunately against the odds…
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
dammit
I really like Travis Wood. Not only do I think the Reds lose a viable long term starter, but I lose my apt Little Girl with the Curl joke. (When he is good, he is very very good…)
Mostly, I think giving Wood and players for a one year signing is bad.
... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.
I hate, hate, hate this deal.
If Marshall was pre-arb I’d consider it but still not like it. As a 3rd year arb eligible reliever, I hate it. Did I say I hate it yet? No? I hate this idea.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 21, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions
If Marshall were pre-arb, I'd think Wood straight up for Marshall was a good trade
I wouldn’t even mind two throw-in prospects, assuming they were indeed nothing more than filler. But this trade as it stands right now looks pretty bad, and I am one of the least-believers in Wood that there is.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Marshall, right now, is a LOT better than Wood
Last two years he’s been healthy and dominant out of the bullpen. 150 innings, 4 to 1 K/BB, and very few homeruns.
Wood is a much bigger question. He’s got a good minor league track record and one half-season in the bigs, but he looked like he was throwing batting practice last year. Since the scouting consensus was that he would have difficulty translating his minor league success to the majors, I have doubts that he can recover and become a credible major league starter. I think one year of Marshall is worth Wood.
Would you have this same viewpoint if this were the offseason after 2010?
Or did Wood’s 2011 counteract his 2010 performance? The sticking point is 1 year of control vs 5 (and the uncertainty about our SP depth right now, personally). Wood for Marshall straight up? It’s a tough call but I could see the rationale for that. But to throw in prospects when we are also taking the bigger salary and far less team control just seems like too much.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Maybe not, because I was cautiously optimistic that Wood could buck the odds
But yeah, I soured on him because of 2011 – worse peripherals, lots of XBHs, and he didn’t suffer from an absurdly high BABIP (.333). Even his Louisville numbers from last season look pretty bad.
The team control is a sticking point, but team control isn’t worth anything unless the player is at least average.
As for the prospects, I feel like we’d know if it was someone high profile like Hamilton. The fact that they haven’t been disclosed leads me to believe that they’re nobody significant, but we’ll see.
what happened to slydes new fanshot?
... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.
by supergrover on Dec 21, 2011 8:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Travis Wood was not going to pitch in this rotation again
The Reds are finally putting their prospects to good use – by not using them. I am fine with it. The top tier system guys moved up to the big leagues – Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Cozart, Leake, Cueto and Mesoraco. The rest are now being used to pick up pieces we don’t have. I think this is great. We may not win a World Series in the next couple of years, but we could. And that is all you can ask for as a fan of a small market team – and a hell of a lot more than we’ve had over the past 20 years.
The hope is that we have young prospects in the system that will continue to improve and fill those holes. But Alonso, Wood and even Grandal just aren’t needed during this cycle for the Cincinnati Reds so I am all for using them to get pieces we need. And Marshall is tough. I remember how he dominated Votto and Bruce (of course, I’m prepared for someone to look it up and prove me wrong as I am just remembering one game).
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
You're half right
PA AB H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS HBPJoey Votto 17 13 3 1 1 2 4 4 .231 .412 .538 .950 0
Jay Bruce 13 11 2 0 0 0 1 6 .182 .308 .182 .490 1
Total 34 28 5 1 1 2 5 11 .179 .324 .321 .645 1
Can’t get the formatting to work, but you get the idea.
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/21/2011.
Joey Votto is a god
don’t count that against anyone
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Travis Wood wasn't going to pitch in the rotation again
There will be no injuries to Latos, Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Chapman (yay i did it right!), and Bailey?
None of those guys will fail?
Even in 2010, a good year, the Reds used 6 starting pitchers for at least 100 innings and Volquez had over 60.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 21, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
You forgot Cueto.
crashtestnipplechip citymoron
by Excalib8 on Dec 21, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wait a damn minute..
Chapman’s gonna pitch in the rotation?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
What the fucking fuck?
If Latos was an understandable amd well-reasoned overpay, this is just asinine. If anyone else with a modicum of talent is included it’s a massively unbalanced trade. IMO, this would be only slightly palatable if a 4 year extension is announced for Marshall immediately.
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
This being said, I fully intend to disavow this comment when Sean Marshall saves Game 7 of the World Series
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
It won't go to 7.
Sweep!
Dirt Bikes!
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 21, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
That's right. The Reds don't lose World Series games.
Nine consecutive victories, you know.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on Dec 21, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
You know I've heard the thing about the Reds winning streak in WS games, but never seen the exact number.
So the last time the Reds lost a World Series game, it took 3 days of rain, 12 innings, and lots of Carlton Fisk arm-waving? THAT was their last loss? Yowza.
by the finest muffins on Dec 21, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I found a DVD of that game awhile back
Captain Hook was at his finest that day, I’m pretty sure he used every guy in his bullpen that day.
I agree that....
… we need to see who else is involved in this trade. But, as for the top line, why are you against trading away a guy we don’t need and likely won’t play an important role for this team for a guy who is a shut down lefty and possible answer to our closer situation? You can’t sit on prospects forever. They get their window. Wood is good, but we have other pitchers around for the next few years who are better. Now you hope that other younger guys in the system step up and replace Wood in the organizational depth chart.
I’m fine with it. We have a chance to win now!
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
If the Reds are all-in for the next two years...
the payroll needs to be increased and another bat needs to be brought in. No sense in mortgaging the next decade unless you’re actually prepared to go all out.
Perhaps I’m overrating the five years of team control and 2nd half of 2010, but I always felt like Wood had more of a future with the Reds than Homer.
We're all mad. I'm mad. You're mad. Otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
Maybe, but that part probably wasn't our choice
Theo Epstein apparently wanted Wood and not Homer. Both are expendable, but we don’t get to choose necessarily.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
This
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
by Yossarian22 on Dec 21, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
She's an old acquaintance of mine.
A cutie pie head case.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 21, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
But if we do acquire this Sean Marshall
the is only one choice for the nickname: Cat Power, of course.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 21, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Wiki this
/is that how it works?
You guys should just make me the Wiki Mod.
crashtestnipplechip citymoron
Unless another pitcher is traded, I don't see the Reds getting an additional closer
If Walt was speaking the truth when he said that Chapman has a spot on the 25 man roster in the bullpen or rotation, the pitching staff looks like this (barring injuries).
Starters:
Latos
Cueto
Leake
Arrroyo
Relievers:
Marshall
Bray
LeCure
Ondrusek
Masset
Arredondo
Swingers:
Bailey
Chapman
By my count that is 12, although I wouldn’t be shocked if the Reds give up on Masset and trade him away.
Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.
why would they give up on Masset?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Dec 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Betting the future on th elikes of Laktos and Marshall shows the level of desperation that Bob and Walt feel.
I guess thats what ha[[ens when you don’t sell tickets and you are slow to make the necessary changes in the daily line-up (e.g. Jonny Gomes, Volquez, Jannish, Rolen).
2012 ia built on a wing and a prayer and a great deal of talent being shipped off for hope against hope. Meanwhile the Reds still don’t have a decent BP. a 3B or a LF
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
at some point, you have to stop saying "someday".
This is their point, I guess. They see the newly named “Votto Window” and are seeking to win within it, it seems.
... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.
I agree on 3B and LF
But BP won a silver glove and the golden slugger award!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ThisonebelongstotheReds on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
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