Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Latos Reposter - Mutually Assured Terrificness

Straight up.  
Via his better half's Twitter feed.

There's been plenty of reaction around the media, blogosphere, and twitterverse to the Reds' acquisition of Mat Latos. RSC's excellent Latos White Paper is a necessary read about the team's new number 2 (1?) starter. Below are some older articles that help explain how Latos has become one of baseball's most promising younger pitchers, while shedding some light on his reportedly mercurial nature:

- This early scouting report discusses some of the makeup questions that have dogged Latos since high school. The Padres took a chance on him in the 11th round of the 2006 draft, but still waited to sign him for nearly a year (which is no longer permitted). Latos exhibited enough maturity while pitching for a Florida community college to convince the Padres to pay him a $1.25M signing bonus.

- During Latos' breakout 2010 campaign, he received plenty of media focus on his meteoric rise to stardom. This Yahoo article sums up the maturation process:

He stopped yelling at teammates for making errors, stopped snatching at return throws from the catcher when he believed an umpire missed a call, and toned down the self-loathing when he didn't perform up to his own expectations. "I learned to breathe through my eyelids," he said. "When I was younger, I always had an excuse. Now, I throw a pitch and I can accept that I made a mistake and somebody hit it. How can I be mad at somebody else on the field? I'm never going to be perfect, so how can I expect anybody else to be perfect?" "I still have that hotness in me. There are plenty of times I want to let it out."

- Latos received some tough love from a Padres minor league instructor early in his career. It very well be responsible for the growth that enabled him to succeed in the big leagues:

Latos got away with his me-first attitude until he collided with Padres roving pitching instructor Mike Couchee.... After a poor bullpen session one day, Latos and Couchee bickered until Couchee decided he'd had enough. He asked Latos if he would be mouthing off like this to Padres manager Bud Black. Latos said no. "Then grow up," Latos remembers Couchee telling him, "and go about your business as if you were in the majors." "A light turned on," Latos said. "I decided to quit acting like I was 16 years old."

- ESPN the Magazine also went into some depth about Latos' new-found maturity in 2010. Latos' professional nadir may have occurred during a game in Cincinnati, shortly after his 2009 big league call-up:

[Heath] Bell had little patience for such an attitude that day in Cincinnati, and almost immediately after hearing Latos, he yelled, "Listen to us! We know what we're doing here. You're a talented pitcher but we can make you that much better. You walk around here like you're a veteran thinking like you're somebody. You have to be humble. We have to work as a team."

It's a long but interesting article, and well worth the read.

After the jump, other hot stove news.

Star-divide

    Comment 243 comments  |  0 recs  | 

    Do you like this story?

    Comments

    Display:

    So when everyone has gotten over their Laktos-Love...who is going to play these positions...

    SS – I see Zach there for a long time – But Walt and Dustbrainfuckpants will want to go w/some VP retread fer sher
    3B – I see Rolen there until he is hurt again (prolly May, then again in July, August and then again in Sept.) Fiasco ?
    LF. – Hi-Z…yawn…um…Frazier, Dusty doesn’t seem to like him…VP retread ?
    C – I prefer Mescaline but I bet Dustbrain goes with ‘Hanny’

    These questions along with how do you get STubbs to make more contact and Bruce to be more offensively consistent are the main issue for the Red’s offense…the pitching looks good on paper – Cueto, Woods, Bailey, Bronson, Laktos, Androidis, Leake, Sam etc…the hitting and defense is kinda iffy..

    Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

    by Madville on Dec 19, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

    the offense that was second in the league in runs scored is the issue?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

    Obviously.

    They can’t hit anything and are talking to no one.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

    restraining order'd

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

    Curious

    why do you keep saying “Laktos”? Is there a pun I’m missing (besides maybe the milk one, which would be unfunny)?

    ... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

    by supergrover on Dec 19, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

    Are you Laktos-intolerant?

    ... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

    by supergrover on Dec 19, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

    Lactose

    would be the spelling of the “lactose-intolerant” lactose. I got nothing on “laktos.”

    I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

    by darthmom on Dec 19, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

    I don't know what it means

    but I am pretty sure it is racist.

    //kneejerkliberal’d

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

    Isn't a Latke a potato pancake?

    Well now it makes perfect sense….

    I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

    by darthmom on Dec 19, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

    hitting & defense look iffy?

    You mean the only good parts of the 2011 team are now suddenly bad? Please elaborate.

    Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

    by Slyde on Dec 19, 2011 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    And the bad parts of the 2011 team are good!

    No more walks, or bullpen letdowns, or badroyo!

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

    Exactly

    backwards

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 19, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

    I think we'd all prefer mescaline.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Dec 19, 2011 4:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    Not me

    not yet, anyway. A platoon will be good for both of them and the team.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 19, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

    I think he meant real mescaline

    Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

    by UncleWeez on Dec 19, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

    oh

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 20, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

    If nothing else I hope the Reds talk to Beltran to drive up his price for St. Louis.

    I want him.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

    It would make the offense pretty unstoppable.

    We’re probably going to see a drop off in production from BP and the catchers, though. Hopefully Drew Stubbs can get back to OPSing closer to .800 than .700 and Jay Bruce can get closer to .900. But Beltran’s close-to-.900-and-excellent-LF-defense would be amazing in the middle of the lineup. 2 years, 10 mill for CoCo, and 2 years, 22 mill with 10 mill deferred for Beltran and call it an off-season.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

    What bats are going to be free agents after 2012?

    They don’t have to fill the holes now, they could pick somebody up in July.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

    thanks

    I wonder what the chances are that Arizona will be shopping Stephen Drew? Mutual options are rarely picked up.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

    Low because they'll be in contention again.

    They have some good pitching and their offense is kinda good in that ballpark.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

    True

    for some reason I forget the Dbacks were really good last year.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

    I'll take that bet.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    godlord

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 19, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

    I'll rec this every time you post it

    It makes lol every time

    I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

    by darthmom on Dec 19, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

    I wouldn't make that bet straight up, though.

    I was trying to get at: I think his HR/PA will improve a lot.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

    You can set whatever qualifiers on it you want.

    He won’t hit 30 homers next year.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

    That's stupid.

    I’ll bet you right now that Jay Bruce won’t hit 100 home runs over his next 800 PAs.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

    but what if he gets 800 PA's in 2012?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

    Another lol

    I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

    by darthmom on Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

    This needed green-ing

    I’ve been doing that a lot lately. Why am I having to pick up this slack?

    "This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

    by rorschach1979 on Dec 19, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

    Ok, how about

    I’ll bet that if Bronson Arroyo pitches 250 innings, his ERA will be below 4.50

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

    If Bronson Arroyo pitches 250 innings

    I imagine they’ll be a line of us waiting to jump off the Roebling Bridge

    by DerekH91 on Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

    not if he does it with an ERA that begins with a 3 or a 4.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

    #sickburn

    "This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

    by rorschach1979 on Dec 19, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

    I dunno.

    If he pitches 250 innings, it’s likely because he’s pitched so well that he’s going 8.1 innings per start!

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 19, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

    he gave the Reds 240 innings in 2006

    that was cool.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

    You meet men in dark places often?

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

    Is that a proposition?

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

    You have money?

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

    Don't be ridiculous

    You’d be the one paying me.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

    I bet if btcoop puts his penis through a New York area glory hole

    nycredsfan will give a blowjob.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

    That's completely inappropriate

    and an offensive personal attack.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

    did i step over the line again?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    Is that a serious question?

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    am i gonna get a popup?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

    once

    i made a brendan’s mom joke after they went out of style.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

    I've yet to get a popup

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

    You just haven't met the right guy yet

    /showing jstuin how it’s done

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

    I've been flagged before

    But since I’m not one of the 2398047234 mods on this site, I don’t get to see them.

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

    i think 'tHan flags all my comments!

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

    Oooh, what was it?

    I don’t think I flagged too many comments on that account (or this one, for that matter)

    by DerekH91 on Dec 20, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

    It was when I photoshopped Joey with a Cardinals hat on

    I actually stumbled across the picture on my computer the other day. Thought I deleted it, glad I didn’t because it makes me laugh.

    by pack_fan on Dec 20, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions  

    definitely flag-worthy

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 20, 2011 6:54 AM EST up reply actions  

    I remember that!

    To be fair, I put something incredibly over the top in the comment box, so the mods would know I was joking

    by DerekH91 on Dec 20, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    I can look it up, the text was:

    “This is worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.”

    I knew it was a joke, and I’m glad you did it because it was incredibly amusing when I saw it.

    by pack_fan on Dec 20, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

    no

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

    how many pop ups have they given you?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

    probably like 6 or 7

    i like to go back and re read them so that i’m sure not to repeat my bad behavior

    by 'tHan on Dec 19, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

    ha!

    I’ll bet that every time you re-read a popup, a unicorn dies.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

    This skit is about me.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

    So, you masturbate slowly

    thinking of other guys. And?

    Wear something sexy to my funeral.

    by Pops Daniels on Dec 19, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

    And?

    Wear something sexy to my funeral.

    by Pops Daniels on Dec 19, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

    That wasn't a reply to you, BTW

    It was a reply to Justin

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

    I know.

    But it applies.

    Wear something sexy to my funeral.

    by Pops Daniels on Dec 19, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

    So much for the light hearted banter

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

    flag'd

    The ends justify the means

    by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

    yeah

    Mainly Willie Bloomquist

    by vottosmash! on Dec 19, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

    Bring back Josh Hamilton!

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    again?

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Dec 19, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

    Potentially awesome fits:

    Youkilis, Wright

    Good fits: Pagan, BJ Upton, Victorino

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

    Youk and Wright would probably be too pricey

    actually Upton and Victorino probably would too.

    Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

    by UncleWeez on Dec 19, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

    x
    We’re probably going to see a drop off in production from BP and the catchers, though

    Why so? I don’t expect Mesoraco to hit .280, but I also don’t expect Hanigan to hit .260, so it might wash out or improve, since Mes might reintroduce pop that was lost in 2011 for the catcher position.

    ... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

    by supergrover on Dec 19, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

    Our catchers last year were way above league average IIRC.

    You think Mesoraco will hit better than Ramon did last year (.282/.341/.446)?

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

    I guess that'd be OK.

    I’d like to see .324 be more like .334 but, that’s only 1% different. I guess we’ll see how he does. He wasn’t quite as good last year at AAA.

    by jsl413 on Dec 19, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

    yeah, Hernanigans were compositely an excellent catcher

    on offense and defense.

    Mez might be a hall of famer one day, but it’s probably too much to expect him to be better this year. It took Wieters about three years to hit his stride.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

    It took Buster Posey about three days to hit his stride

    I don’t think you can make comparisons. Every player is different and will adjust differently.

    I mean, even Wieters slashed .288/.340/.412 his rookie year as a 23 year old in the AL East. Meso will be fine.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

    just saying

    it might not be realistic to expect the production from our catchers to be better than last year. Partly because it was pretty decent last year. Might have been a fluke, but it was pretty decent.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

    I don't disagree with the larger point

    And I don’t expect it to be better. But I do think Hanny will bounce back a bit, and Meso should improve as the year goes on.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

    I personally think a huge range of outcomes are possible for Mesoraco

    I doubt the catching will be better than last year, but I also doubt it will be far worse. Anyway, anything between .680-.820 OPS would not surprise me for Meso. I just really don’t know and would not make any bets.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 19, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

    I think it would be awesome for us

    And doubly awesome because he wouldn’t go to St. Louis.

    @DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!

    by Dave from Louisville on Dec 19, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

    Aw, come on...he's a vegan

    He’s got to be rail thin by now

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Dec 19, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

    I now a girl who gained like 100 pounds after she became a vegan

    she was hot in high school when she ate meet, but now not so much.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

    #goodlord

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

    likely not veganism related

    thyroid or something unfun

    ... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

    by supergrover on Dec 19, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

    A lot of vegans eat an enormous amount of starch...

    since it’s easier to get and cheaper than real food.

    If you’re having a burger, fries, and a Coke, the best thing for you of those three is the burger.

    by MatthewH on Dec 19, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

    How much starch is in cocaine?

    Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
    Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

    by ChiDa on Dec 19, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

    The best thing for you is to avoid McDonald's all together

    Since, y’know, the food doesn’t ever rot. That doesn’t seem natural.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

    He didn't say McDonald's, silly girl

    "Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

    by jch24 on Dec 19, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

    I read the ESPN article and have to admit I was tickled by some of his antics.

    If his makeup is a threat to his career, it’s clearly because of everything besides baseball. I’m good with my ace being a sonavabitch, as long as he gets to play. At this point he looks ready to move forward.

    Never say "TRADE VOTTO"

    by mdccclxix on Dec 19, 2011 12:53 PM EST reply actions  

    i kind of want an asshole.

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

    x

    "Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

    by jch24 on Dec 19, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

    x

    Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun

    @btcoop71

    by btcoop71 on Dec 19, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

    NTTAWWT

    ... I still say it was a touchdown, got tammit.

    by supergrover on Dec 19, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

    Good. Lord.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    I've just been sitting in half-Latos

    contemplating this trade all weekend.

    Mgr., Red Reporter

    "Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
    "Twinkle, twinkle, babble."

    by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 19, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

    wait

    The Phillies signed Willis?

    Contributing little more than than snark and wittiness to SBN since 2007.

    by Yossarian22 on Dec 19, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

    ?

    Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into Swansons. ~ Ron Swanson

    by BigBabyBruce on Dec 19, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

    teh fay

    on what’s next for the Reds.

    He think the Reds will have to fill the remaining holes via free agency, because the prospect cupboard is bare after the Latos trade.

    He’s a bit out of date. He lists Kubel as a possibility. (He thinks the Reds need a veteran OFer.)

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

    Fay's spot on here:
    By the way, I just looked at the post with Jim Bowden’s reaction to the trade. Kind of cracked me up. He’s talking like Alonso and Grandal are absolute locks. I was at press conference where Brandon Larson was described as "Robin Ventura was more speed." I was at another where they said Dane Sardinha "could catch in the big leagues right now." And who could forget that Chris Gruler had "a Tom Seaver curveball."

    by ken on Dec 19, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

    yes

    Prospects may or may not work out. A few years ago, anyone suggesting Homer be traded would have been run out of town on a rail. Now…well, he’s not terrible, but he’s not the superstar many were expecting.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

    Sure, it's easy to overrate prospects. Especially pitchers.

    But I was talking more about Bowden’s lack of credibility.

    by ken on Dec 19, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

    To me, the most ridiculous thing that no one is acknowledging

    is that of the 5 players that changed teams, Latos is younger than 2, and only older than the other 2 by less than a year. It’s like if he was still in AAA after having done very well (Alonso, Boxy) , people would be salivating over him. But since he’s not a prospect, it’s an overpay. Dumb.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

    And especially with pitchers,

    there is so much room for growth and further development. The stuff is clearly there, but time and again we see pitchers learning how to better utilize that stuff as they get older. That’s not to say he definitely will, but there’s a LOT more development left in him than in Alonso or Volquez, who we pretty much know what to expect from.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

    I disagree about Alonso

    I think there’s a decent chance he’s a great hitter but he could just easily be merely adequate. He’s already shown good contact skills and is strong enough to hit for considerable power. If that happens, his walk rate will hike up and his slash line would be elite. But this is all projection based on his tools and outstanding collegiate record. His minor league record, as we’ve all discussed, is just okay, perhaps because of the hamate fracture. So he could easily become just an average 1B (which has value in itself, but obviously isn’t what San Diego is banking on). I would imagine there’s more volatility in projecting Alonso’s WAR than Latos’. IMO.

    by ken on Dec 19, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    I can see that

    On the other hand, i feel like Alonso is pretty certain to hit for a good average, walk a lot, and have decent power. I’m not sure how much more to expect. The power could become elite, but it definitely won’t in Petco.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

    I see him as Billy Butler.

    If he improves his defense (people so easily forget that most every young 1b is terrible at defense early on), he could be a solid MLB starter.

    Hitting wise he’s got Butler’s profile, I think.

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 19, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

    I don't think Fay really knows much about the Reds.

    Either that or he just doesn’t think. If the Reds traded 3 of their top 10 prospects (2 of the top 5) for Latos, it stands to reason that there are other prospects available to trade for a closer or LF.

    Obviously some of those 10 (Meso, Cozart) aren’t getting traded, but the cupboard is hardly bare. Now, if Walt makes another big trade….

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

    Grant Brisbee is rapidly becoming my favorite baseball writer

    Here he is on Latos. No information we didn’t already know, but well put. And it’s nice that somebody in the national media gets it.

    by ams78 on Dec 19, 2011 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

    Interesting list of pitchers with a k:bb ratio of 3:1 or better prior to turning 24

    7 guys have done it since 2000, and two of the other six did it during the same time frame (2009-2011) as Latos – Bumgarner and Brett Anderson. Of the other 4, here is what they did in their age 24 season:

    Cole Hamels – 14-10, 3.09 ERA, 227 IP
    K-Rod, 2-3, 1.73 ERA, 47 saves
    Mark Prior, 11-7, 3.67 ERA, 167 IP (basically the end of his career, unfortunately)
    Javier Vasquez, 16-11, 3.42 ERA, 223 IP

    And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 19, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

    Same. He's clever, a good writer, and actually seems to understand baseball.

    My favorite trade analysis was the one Al Yellon (main mod on Bleed Cubbie Blue) did. He said the centerpiece of the trade was Edinson Volquez and Grandal looked like a throw in.

    Way to do your homework, Cubs fan.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

    link?

    I didn’t see a post over there about it

    Fuck lion say what! i got a fuck lion now come fuck wit me

    by UncleWeez on Dec 19, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    I've said this before, but it bears repeating

    Al Yellon is hands down the worst writer on Baseball Nation.

    Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
    Crum-Bum Beat

    by -ManBearPig on Dec 19, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    He has to be the only work-for-free blogger

    With his own hate site. Which probably says as much about Cubs fans as it does him.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Dec 19, 2011 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    I always assumed the dudes on the main page

    (Neyer, Brisbee, Sullivan, Yellon, et al) got paid.

    Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
    Crum-Bum Beat

    by -ManBearPig on Dec 19, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

    The "scouting report" on reds.com is just as flawed

    The writer says that Latos’ slider is “decent,” but from what I’ve seen it may be his best pitch. He leads the discussion on the Reds’ trade chips by talking about Volquez, who “may be the centerpiece of the deal for the Padres.” He also says that once Volquez returned from Louisville, “he became the type of pitcher the Reds envisioned, though a 5-7 record and 5.71 ERA do not reflect the potential and arm strength of a healthy Volquez.”

    by ken on Dec 19, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

    If Volquez is the best layer they received in the trade...

    it will actually be worse for the Padres, since the best player they received in the trade won’t be on their team after 2 years.

    If he’s that good, a team with more money than th Pads will pay to sign him in FA.

    Tequila and pancakes, anyone?

    by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Dec 19, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

    The few comments weren't bad either

    I think Reds fans should seriously consider the “Sweep the leg!” chant, with Latos on the mound.

    "This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer

    by rorschach1979 on Dec 19, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

    I've liked him ever since I started reading him when he was solely on McCovey Chronicles

    Does he count as national media? That idea is still strange to me, guys moving from SBN to “national” gigs.

    by pack_fan on Dec 20, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

    looks like fay & doug dirt are going to fight. i feel a SSS excuse coming on.
    RT @dougdirt24 His on base percentage is a big problem for starting him every day. Sappelt is the better choice//Sappelt’s OBP was .289.

    by 'tHan on Dec 19, 2011 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

    He's right that Sappelt's .289 major league OBP is largely irrelevant

    but regardless, his argument is a strange one. Heisey and Sappelt have nearly identical minor league batting lines. Heisey has been successful (enough) in the majors though, and Sappelt has yet to be.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 19, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

    maybe he just loves the prospects

    I suppose there’s also Sappelt’s relatively fast rise through the farm. He reached the majors in 4 years, vs. 5 for Hi-Z.

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

    Sappelt didn't rise that fast through the farm.

    He just sucked at first, and has only been good for 2 years.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

    You aren't kiddin'

    Minor league OBPs of 362 and 365; SLGs of 459 and 458. But Sappelt got there differently, pumping up his SLG with doubles and especially triples. It’ll be harder to get those in the big leagues because the fielders are better.

    by ken on Dec 19, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

    Frazier is basically the same hitter, too

    .354/.477

    All the sudden, we went and got ourselves a big ol’ roster redundancy problem.

    by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 19, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

    But for some reason, I just don't trust Sappelt to do anything in the majors

    It’s largely irrational, but I can’t shake the sense that he’s a 4th OF at best.

    Part of it is his size, and what ken said about it being hard to pad your SLG with doubles and triples in the majors…and especially at GABP.

    I don’t necessarily trust Heisey either, and I’m not sure Frazier is a legit offensive LFer either, but I certainly would rather give them a run out there before Sappelt.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

    Well

    I can make a joke about your size…..but I won’t, too short.

    Cingrani for 2012 Closer!

    by OGC Reds on Dec 19, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

    Yep.

    Also, his approach. He looks like he’ll never walk, and will have a hard time getting it out of the infield.

    He just looks like the kind of guy whose minors numbers look good mainly because of bad minor league defenses.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

    If his plate approach was more like that of successful small guys, there would be more hope

    That, and if he had little guy speed. Most successful small players can really fly. Sappelt has decent speed, but not the kind he needs given his apparent lack of pop.

    And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 19, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

    Or if he just didn't swing at anything off the plate.

    It’s hard to consistently hit a strike zone that small, but he makes the pitcher’s job a lot easier by hacking early and often.

    And it’s kind of the Janish effect too. If he never shows the ability to crush a pitch, pitchers won’t be afraid to groove a fastball on the first pitch of the AB.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

    you need up go see Juan Duran play

    He’s the anti sappelt

    Buy RED: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar, today

    by obc2 on Dec 19, 2011 7:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

    If Sappelt isn't playing CF

    he’s probably not a MLB player, because his bat won’t play in a corner. In CF, his upside could be a fringe-average starter for a few years.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 19, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

    Admit it, it's because he's black

    "Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

    by jch24 on Dec 20, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

    This is gold

    "Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

    by jch24 on Dec 20, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

    He's black?

    I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.

    by darthmom on Dec 20, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

    so

    why is DougDirt so in love with Sap?

    All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

    by BubbaFan on Dec 19, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

    Proved you wrong!

    It’s only 6:19 and it’s been long over!

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

    Also, what?

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

    Oh, nevermind. You were being cute by shortening Fayman.

    You’re so clever.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

    yep

    still not worth following doug dirt

    ’creds is the winner

    by 'tHan on Dec 19, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

    You're too kind.

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    a'fucking-greed

    ’creds > dougdirt in a landslide, and not in that Dixie Chicks or Fleetwood Mac kinda way, either

    The ends justify the means

    by Highlifeman21 on Dec 19, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

    I want the Reds to go get Parra

    He’s young and cost controlled, he showed great progress last year at drawing walks, and he can play LF extremely well.

    It would be nice to have a scrappy, fast, top of the order type hitter in this lineup. I know he doesn’t have the power of a typical LF, but this team has enough power hitters already. Parra isn’t perfect, but I think he could be a really nice addition.

    And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 19, 2011 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

    Yeah, well giving Kubel $15 million was clearly one of those things you do after a night of heavy drinking

    So the reds just need to take Towers out for a night on the town and next thing you know:

    Boom. Sappelt for Parra.

    And fentanyl ain't that like super-morphine for elephants and soldiers with their head blown off

    by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Dec 19, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

    Yeah, that contract is ridiculous.

    Can you imagine the furor if Walt had given anything close to that to Gomes last year?

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

    "Span! Span! My kingdom for Denard Span!"

    Doesn’t it always seem like Minny is full of 26-y-o control pitchers and like 6 interchangable outfielders? They’ve had the same team since Puckett and Knoblauch.

    "You said 'walks' twice."
    "I like walks."

    by Cy Schourek on Dec 19, 2011 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

    Is Parra an upgrade on Heisey?

    They seem like practically the same player to me. Parra trades power for more OBP. We don’t gotta give anything up for Heisey though.

    expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

    by kcgard2 on Dec 19, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

    So far so good

    now sign Ludwick and bring CoCo back! yaaay

    by vottosmash! on Dec 19, 2011 8:29 PM EST reply actions  

    I deleted MBP's pic

    Mainly because I can’t think of a single situation where anyone in my life (wife, colleagues, students) could walk by my computer with it up and I wouldn’t be mortified.

    Also, the persecution argument was lame and needed to go.

    :-)

    It feels so nice to be back to normal

    by nycredsfan on Dec 20, 2011 9:05 AM EST reply actions  

    link to said pic?

    "Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

    by jch24 on Dec 20, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

    Comments For This Post Are Closed


    User Tools

    Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Cincinnati Reds. Community Guidlines

    FanPosts

    Community blog posts and discussion.

    Recommended FanPosts

    Long-hair-baseball-player_small
    Red Reporter Field Trip: Taking in BP at GABP, but not with BP
    Turtle17_small
    The Draft: Reds all-time best, 1 through 40.
    Anime_small
    The Ranch (Bailey vs. Sale)
    Anime_small
    Rainy Sunday (Leake vs. Skaggs)
    Mister_redlegs_hasaposse1_small
    Requiem For Riverfront

    Recent FanPosts

    Jcueto_lol_small
    MLB 12: The Show - Custom Chapman Cover
    500x_custom_1271135923567_jaybruce_small
    2012 Depth Concerns
    1295279046-zack-morris-phone_small
    Why Is Ryan Hanigan's Bat Wasted?
    Herve_small
    From The Opponent's Feed™: Not-a-Homer Simpson
    Turtle17_small
    The Draft: Richie Shaffer-3B-Clemson.
    Rorschach_small_small
    Sunday's Rockies game - Anyone here going?
    1310_small
    Pls Help Me Figure Out Who Signed This Ball
    Anime_small
    A Salami For Soto (Villareal vs. Cloyd)

    + New FanPost All FanPosts >

    FanShots

    Yahoo_full_count

    Bench Coaches

    How-thomas-the-tank-engine-works-11_small BK

    Ken_fish_called_wanda_small ken

    Zombie-mlb_small Charlie Scrabbles

    340x_charliesheen_small Kevin Mitchell is Batman

    5851799_small FordhamRam

    Lurch_small UncleWeez

    Long-hair-baseball-player_small -ManBearPig

    Nyc_small AC Slider

    Beat Reporters

    Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

    Turtle17_small Thundering Turtle

    Small riverfront76

    Piñata_small kcgard2