Red Reposter - Labor peace in our time
by ken on Nov 21, 2011 7:02 AM EST
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Print- New Labor Agreement could be announced tomorrow
According to the Biz of Baseball: "The deal will include a luxury tax around the amateur draft bonus system, and changes to how compensation for premium free agents are reached. " The plan is to tax teams that go over a set limit in total draft spending for the year, rather than make a "hard slot" number for any individual pick. Other changes include a raise in the minimum salary (from $414k to $480k) and hGH testing, but the sides ultimately did not agree to accept a tax on teams that fail to reach a salary floor, which is too bad. Finally, Tom Verducci reports in the link below that we might see the expanded playoffs as soon as 2012. - Ken Rosenthal thinks the Commish and the Union's leaders deserve a lot of credit, and he's right of course. But baseball, much more than the other sports, benefits by having already fought it's ugliest labor wars that culminated under Bud's watch during the strike of '94-'95. The other sports don't have the same historical backdrop that gives their stakeholders the perspective shared by those in baseball.
- One change to the new labor agreement is fewer "Type A" free agents
From what I'm reading, they're doing away with the whole Elias set of rankings and may even determine Type A's by the value of their new contract, which is shockingly reasonable. Reportedly among those affected is Francisco Cordero. The upshot here is the signing team won't have to forfeit its own pick to sign Coco. The rule change is particularly critical for relievers because it's usually the teams that don't have protected first-round picks (i.e., bottom half of the round) that are looking to sign closers. Any smart team is understandably wary about forfeiting its highest pick for a relief pitcher. All that said, my guess is the Reds don't offer arbitration. He's coming off a great year and a high salary, meaning there's a very good chance that he makes something close to the $12M he earned this past season. - Tom Verducci plays "what if" for the '06 draft
We've done our share of teeth-gnashing over the Reds passing of Tim Lincecum to select Drew Stubbs with the no. 8 pick, but comparatively the Reds did pretty well here. The Dodgers took Clayton Kershaw right before the Reds, so six teams passed on not just one but two future CYA winners. All but one of them (Tampa, which selected Eva Longoria) took pitchers, and that group as a whole has a -1.0 WAR to date. - Verducci also notes that it was the players who pushed strongest for a 15-15 league split, which I found surprising: "The biggest complaints from players have been brutal travel schedules -- many of the problems are caused by interleague play -- and the inequity of intradivision rivals playing very different interleague schedules." Starting in 2013, we should see fewer marquee interleague series but the same number of games (18). That might make sense from a scheduling equity perspective, but it doesn't make for great business. The Indians series is one of the biggest gate draws of the year, and it's a shame if Cleveland and Cincinnati will have to trade it off.
- Christina Karhl has doubts about the Reds' rotation
I don't agree with everything here, but it's hard to dispute the overarching theme that the rotation depth means the Reds have difficult choices to make. Should Travis Wood be given another shot? Edinson Volquez? Or is the solution external? If so, Karhl is not optimistic about the Braves' Jair Jurrjens. "Jurrjens is also someone most statheads expect to see take a tumble in 2012, by as much as a full run given a 3.95 FIP to his 2.96 ERA. That’s assuming that the right knee that has shelved him three times in two years holds up, and that’s without getting to an additional pair of DL stints in the last two years for injuries to an oblique and a thigh... If Jurrjens is the solution, maybe it's the decision-making process that tells the Reds to go after him that is the problem." - Captain Hook's legacy pays dividends for the Reds
Sparky Anderson earned the nickname for going to his bullpen early and often, but the Reds have apparently continued his legacy to the present day. Here, Mitchel Litchtman does the heavy lifting to show that it's better on the whole to pinch hit for your starter in high-leverage situations after the pitcher has thrown at least five innings. In 2010, Dusty was in the middle of the pack when it came to "total wins lost" under this metric (1.01). But from 2005 through 2010, the Reds lost the fewest wins in the NL (4.3). - The Blog Red Machine looks at the Central's bullpen performance
The above study doesn't account for bullpen strength or fatigue, which seemed to plague the Reds' 'pen down the stretch. But by the BRM's count, the Reds' relievers still had the third-best ratio of successful relief outings in the division. The big story in the division was Milwaukee's amazing turnaround following the K-Rod trade. - Nick Masset has a large "swing area"
Which is simply defined as "the size of the area in which pitchers are getting swings." The better the bigger, because you want hitters chasing your stuff all over the place. Masset finished fourth in baseball last year, and the names on the leaderboard are generally good company. We've talked about Masset's up-and-down 2011, but I'm coming around to a rebound the more I think about it.
- Brodie Greene a finalist for the Stenson Award
This AFL award is given to the player who best exemplifies unselfishness, hard work and leadership, and is named in honor of the late Darnell Stenson a Reds outfield prospect who was killed in a 2003 carjacking while playing in the AFL. The Marlins' Kevin Mattison won, but Greene sounds like an alright guy anyways: "Be there early, after, whatever it takes, picking up guys when you're not playing. Playing the game the right way, how I was taught my whole life. It's paying off now." There's a video interview of Greene in the link. - Boxberger named AFL all-star
In other AFL award news, RHP Brad Boxberger was named to the AFL's all-star team. Pitching for the Phoenix Desert Dogs, he struck out 22 and walked 6 in 13.1 innings. In his final post of the season, Boxy blogs about his offseason work schedule and upcoming appearances at Reds Fest. But all work and no play makes Boxy a dull prospect: "I'll also will be trying to sneak in some regular Modern Warfare gaming time each day." - C-ing Red has some shopping ideas in time for the holiday season
In the market for a "silver fashion watch?" With rhinestones? And a Reds logo? Then you're in luck! Also: instructions on crocheting an old-school Reds logo. - If there's someone on your shopping list who you don't particularly care for,
OMGReds has discovered that the baseball card company Leaf has released "an entire set of baseball cards featuring Pete Rose. AN ENTIRE SET.... Each box includes at least one Rose autograph ... with the "Never bet on baseball" inscription being the grand-daddy of them all, if you ask us." I barely remember Leaf from my collecting days of about twenty years ago; I'm amazed they're still around. - Review - "The Last Play at Shea"
So this doesn't really belong with the others, but I'm interested in seeing this documentary about Shea Stadium and a few of the famous concerts it hosted. "This fourth layer provides a musical link between Joel and the Moptops .... As one watches the contrasting visuals at Shea--we're talking daytime and nighttime imagery--it is still astonishing to contemplate how divergent one's response could be to it. In the daytime, in the non-descript "garbage dump meadow" that Robert Moses hand-picked as the location for the Dodgers (and caused them to flee to California), it was nothing other than a dump.... But at night--especially when the camera at the Joel concert looks out into the audience from the center field stage--Shea Stadium (surely the only major league sports facility named for a lawyer...) takes on a good bit of the classicism inherent in its design."
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is a 15-15 split really going to help travel schedules?
There will be just as many interleague games, if not more. They’ll just be spread around more. A lot of “natural rivals” are fairly nearby geographically, so I don’t see how it makes the travel schedule worse.
Totally understand the unfairness angle. Especially when the “natural rival” is either very good or really terrible.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah, that was also my thought
I don’t see how the new schedule and split make a big difference in travel. Also, it’s not a very sympathetic argument. It’s not like these guys are lugging around their own gear and children on the road.
holy cow
Seattle Mariners outfielder Greg Halman killed
ROTTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) — Seattle Mariners outfielder Greg Halman was stabbed to death early Monday and his brother was arrested as a suspect, Dutch police said.
Unreal. The Netherlands has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Wow... that is sad.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Ya gotta be selective when picking brothers.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I knew this was going to happen.
Halman’s domestic strife and knife-dodging metrics all pointed to a serious regression.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is really, really sad
but one tiny bright spot out of all of this darkness is that I’ve been singing “Ramblin’ Man” all day.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like homeboy
had a bad reaction to some really good shit.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 21, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think some of the changes to the labor deal are skewed away from small market teams.
The hard slot helped them keep prices down in the first 15 picks, especially. Now, if the Dodgers or Phillies have a down year, score big on a kid like Strasburg, the price will be that much higher for the Pirates the following year. I do need to hear what the spending cap is, as well as the severity of the tax.
The player’s minimums went up quite a bit.
The Super Twos are increasing in number, I’ve read.
Type B FA’s are gone, I’ve read.
Type A FA’s no longer cost purchasing teams (Bos, NY, LA, Chi) a first round or second round pick, plus the compensation pick is likely to be at the end of the first round, not in the teens or twenty’s. So the rich pay less in resources and the poor suffer not only that, but an even worse pick in return.
For all that, in return the players said they’d allow not to cheat with HGH. Seems to me like the players bent over the owners, except, again, if you’re a larger market team.
I have yet to read a definitive article on this topic, but overall I keep getting the sense the Reds aren’t being helped by any of this.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
Since baseball players make as much as they do, I wouldn't say they are bending over to the owners.
All the other sports wish they had it as well as MLB players.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
I'm saying the players won the deal, overall. They condeeded not to cheat and got paid more during the beginning, middle, and end of their careers.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
I read it wrong... my bad.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I find it mildly insane that the MLBPA which protects people who make a minimum of 6 figures is the strongest union in the county
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Well, to be fair
they also protect minor league players too, who are some of the worst paid “skilled” laborers around.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
i guess
although minor leaguers aren’t a part of the MLBPA right (not trying to split hairs) but CBA does cover things like slot pay and what not, but they were also able to drug test minor league players much earlier because they were outside of MLBPA’s protection.
And the talented players are taken care of to a point, but the unsigned non-foreign free agent probably gets very little from baseball or the MLBPA. Honestly I would have no problem if they were fighting to give A ball and rookie players a pay raise and asked for the parent teams to kick in a little to help give those guys a decent wage.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I've seen a lot of articles complaining about this
Though a luxury tax on draft picks and international signings seems like it would help teams with smaller budgets, that’s how small market teams have been competing lately. (See Alonso, Yonder and Chapman, Aroldis.)
I’m curious to find out the details of the compensatory draft picks. There were rumors that eventually, teams would be limited to one per year, which would be brutal for small market teams. Whatever the mechanism, it appears the intent is to have a lot fewer Type A’s.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yonder was not an international signing.
/nitpick’d
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
but I think her point was that he was signed for way above slot.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
There's a joke in there somewhere.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
yes
I said draft picks and international signings.
I read somewhere that this was a trend for small market teams: signing draft picks for big bucks (and big league contracts) because it’s still cheaper than signing free agents.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm not following the first point
I think the new deal stinks for the next Strasburg. Under the old system he could tell the team he wants X and make them blink – it all depended on the team’s budget and will-power. Now the team can say, “sorry Stephen, we only have $8M to spend on this year’s draft, and you’re asking for $10M.” It obviously depends on the numbers but teams will be able to get cover behind a league rule.
I think some change to Type As was necessary. If Type Bs are gone, that does stink. We’ll see. This was supposed to be announced today but has been delayed for at least another day.
It does depend on the cap, I did mention that as well. And it depends what the tax is for going over.
The rich teams will have the ability to deal with the tax, if the cap is small to mid sized. I don’t think smaller market teams will have the stomach for it.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
Gotcha
I read somewhere that the penalty would only be if you went over two years in a row. So a small market team could splurge on a guy they really liked if they can control themselves the next year.
"I'll go on a diet after Thanksgiving" of the baseball world.
That said, this makes a lot of sense for baseball, because you can’t have a Derek Rose type to just wander in and take over. It’s more NBA who can’t control tehmselves.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
The problem is
that it’s the small market teams that have learned to invest in the draft recently. The Pirates have spent more than anyone in the draft for the last few years and now they will be the ones hindered by this. It sounds to me like they came up with a really clever way to service the big market teams. They can paint it as a move for equality’s sake, but in reality it is quite the opposite.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
it sounds just like me throwing my hands up in the air
but honestly, its tough to remark on any one provision without seeing everything.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I gotta agree with Chuck.
One set of rules for small market, and a better set of rules for teams that can afford it.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
If we can get Cahill with him
and for a decent price, I’m all up ons that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
how much would coco cost?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
2 years $5 mil per year?
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
still less than 8 mil
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I'd pay him the $5 mil too.
I think Walt has pretty much written off bringing back Coco. I think he said they will see what else is out there first.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the only way I see him coming back
is if he’s still standing around without a job come March. I highly doubt the likelihood of this happening, though. If the Reds haven’t had talks yet, there is probably little chance he’ll come back for a discounted price.
I'm still hoping he signs before the Reds have to make a decision on arbitration.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Doubt this will happen
Reds have balked at including Alonso.
I’m really worried about Walt lowballing everyone. Maybe that’s why there was no significant trade last year or this year at the deadline.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Walt has shown himself to be a master of current market values.
Low-balling in November can set the stage for a more-advantageous January trade.
Walt’s no dope. He knows that this is not a WS roster and that moves need to be made.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Of course it depends on the price
but yeah, I’m serious.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
The Athletics aren't just going to "throw in" the tenth most highly regarded prospect in baseball.
Though, if it’s true that they’re shopping Yonder for him, the Reds better get something else in the deal.
Prospect?
I’m talkin’ Trevor Cahill. Who you talkin’ ’bout?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Or maybe Brett Anderson
He could be a buy-low candidate given his injury history.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Well, right
He obviously wouldn’t be a throw in. But I’d still like one of the starters they are reportedly shopping.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Chris Heisey and Matt Klinker should probably do it
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
wow, why not just give them the whole team while you're at it?
by 'tHan on Nov 21, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I can't figure out what she's saying
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
She's saying
“jch, why are you the way that you are?”
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
She's saying, "Chris Heisey and Matt Klinker?"
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I wish the question she was asked was
“What did you do to UncleWeez and the guy who came in after UncleWeez who looked exactly like him and was slightly out of breath but was wearing a different shirt?”
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Nov 21, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
But then who would have last names of german origin?
WHO?
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
Arredondo, silly.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
They ought to have to take Andrew Cisco and Homer Bailey.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this.
Some kind of mega-trade of Cahill and Bailey for Yonder and a couple other players.
Yonder is worth more than Bailey, so some of his value spills over into paying for Cahill. It’d just be a matter of who else they’d want.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd be all for this.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Jim Bowden now says the Reds trying to deal Alonso to the Rays
YOU JUST SAID ALONSO FOR BAILEY
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
Jim Bowden is a dumbass
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
there is very little evidence to support that claim
by 'tHan on Nov 21, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he is a dumbass, but I believe he still has his connections.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
He's an entertaining dumbass
But I wouldn’t hire him to general manage my laundry.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
BREAKING:
GBSWAMBB’s underwear has been traded to New York for the 3 bolts of fine cashmere that could, I guess, be made into a sweater one day.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Sweater? Nah
I’m thinking codpiece.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
So you didn't need nearly that much fabric.
#sickburn
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just like all my claims!
/jchHLMlovechild
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
who's the big spoon?
who’s the little spoon?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
I think we both know the answer to that, ursa minor
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
spooning contest!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
I hope this is sarcasm
otherwise he traded David Wells for Eric Owens.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
This brings up an excellent question.
Why doesn’t everyone follow us on twitter?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
i waste too much time on facebook, and RR
i don’t need twitter to help.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
hell, even I gave in....
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
well if it means i can follow highlifeman21, no.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Nov 21, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
you follow me here, so....
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
areuserious?
For James Shields?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
SHHHHH!
The Rays don’t know that yet!
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
hmmm
MLB Trade Rumors finally got back online, and they link to a Bowden tweet that says the A’s are after Alonso, not the Rays.
Do the A’s have anyone we want?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Bailey for Alonso es no bueno
Hopefully we can get them to build a deal with Alonso + some for Bailey + one of their starters.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
i'd only trade Alonso if we are getting a starter in return.
Cahill or Anderson.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Gio kind of worries me
he seems to be in the same vein as Jonathan Sanchez or Edinson Volquez—high K/high BB guy who was a product of that ballpark. I’d definitely take him over Jurrjens, but I’d rather have Cahill, then Anderson (if his medicals check out).
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
yeah
Bailey for Alonso straight up doesn’t seem like a deal that would interest the Reds. There would have to be more to it than that.
Hopefully they don’t make us take Adam Rosales back. I see he was good for a .098 batting average this year.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Cahill makes the most sense, since Beane likes trading guys when they hit arc
But I just noticed he is signed relatively cheaply through 2015, with team options for both 16 and 17. I’m not sure why they’d want to trade him. And if anything, it’s going to make him really expensive to get.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Has a "top 100" list come out yet?
I feel like Alonso is a really valuable get.
Its interesting looking at the A’s pitchers’ K/9 Rates. Only Gonzalez is above average, and I don’t like his walks. Nobody’s mentioned McCarthy yet, but I think he’d be a hell of a get.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Cahill is a pretty serious GB pitcher, which is nice
And McCarthy is coming off of a career year, only has 1 arb year left, and is very injury prone. It would be buying way high on him. I’d rather have Jurrjens….
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Have to be wary of anyone who pitches in that park.
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
He did a great job timing that arc with Carlos Gonzalez and Matt Holiday
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Gonzalez and Cahill, yeah
If they wanted to throw in Michael Choice, I don’t think the Reds would complain
from twitter:
YonderalonsoU Yonder Alonso
Was the deal with all this trade talks!? Relax guys!! Reds all the way!
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
that's what Josh Hamilton thought
Until they told him he was traded.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Crackheads are often confused about loyalty and financial issues.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
wow
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
END and or Heisey for Bailey?
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Nov 21, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
END doesn't really seem like Bean's type of player.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can agree with that.
Here’s my question (actually, it’s 3 questions):
Boxy should be ready to be on the MLB club as soon as mid-season or at the very least next year, correct? If so, why are we trying to make moves for a closer? Wouldn’t it make more sense to use someone in house to close this year and prepare for Boxy to take over Opening Day 2013? That seems more prudent than trading away prospects that could be used to get a SP on a closer.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Nov 21, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's a valid question
Howeva, I don’t think it’s necessarily a great idea to go with an unproven rookie as closer. If they had Bailey, Boxy could be a hell of an 8th inning guy.
Also, just because the As want Alonso doesn’t mean Walt would give him up just for Bailey.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
wasn't Bailey an unproven rookie closer not so long ago?
And Houston Street before him?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Jonathan Papelbon
Scott Williamson
Hugo Weaving
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
L. Ron Hubbard
Sam Shepard
Dustin Diamond
Barney the Dinosaur
what was the question again?
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Nov 21, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Commander Shephard
Jesus
Australian sheep dog
A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
by GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Nov 21, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I mean, there are exceptions.
But Boxy doesn’t really have the pedigree that any of these guys had. And while they worked out, I think it’s a bit risky for a team with a 2 year window to count on a rookie closer. I’d be OK with Boxy as closer, but if Bailey is available, I’d definitely take him too.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think we could use more than 1 good bullpen arm
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
The Braves did okay with their rookie closer this year...
But you are right, having to badass young arms in the 8th and 9th would be a good thing as long as Walt doesn’t get fleeced by the Moneyballer. What is the trade history between Walt and Billy?
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Nov 21, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
*two
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Nov 21, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
The Mark Mulder trade did not go well.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Haren for Mark Mulder doesn't bode well for Walt
Although the Cards won the series that year…but still
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Exactly - how many WS did Beane win with Haren
If you build 1000 bridges and suck one cock, you’re a cocksucker not a bridge builder.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't that bridge in Louisville cave in?
Cocksucker.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 21, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Haren for Harden
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
mom?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Nov 21, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't see the person in this before Yossi's comment.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I am an "educator".
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with MBP
I don’t see why the Reds are considering trading prospects for a closer. Maybe Boxy is the one a year from now, but we’ve still got Arredondo as a possible closer and maybe even Masset as a possibility if he can recover from last year.
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Mine either.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 21, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, Chuck....
I’d say the NBA is fully aware of the ramifications of prolonged labor strife, yet look where they currently sit. Baseball just managed to learn more from their ordeal, which is surprising to me.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
They all look the same to you, eh?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 21, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
eh, the nba has a lot of owners that are also nhl owners
those owners lost a season & are in much better shape for it.
those same owners have wanted the nba to lose the season all along.
the owners will get a tremendous deal when one is struck & the nba will be happy
Any NBA owner who thinks they can make up their money from the NHL
is not very smart.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
you think so?
the players better hope this move works out for them. Otherwise, they lost a year & rejected their best deal at the beginning of negotiations.
It's a risk, no doubt
But this is their trump card. They’ll probably lose the season but they might get a better deal in the end. Might. At the very least, the next time the CBA is negotiated the owners will have to take the union more seriously.
The owners are going to win the NBA situation regardless.
The players will eventually fold… the owners don’t have to do anything. They were planning this all along.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
the owners will definitely win
When is the last time any nba fanatics on this board purchased tix and saw a live game?
The nba isn’t fantastic any mo….
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Nov 21, 2011 6:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
if you were a real fan you'd move to an NBA city
(this may not be true)
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
my sister's a basketball fan
It’s her favorite sport. She likes it more than football or baseball.
But she prefers the WNBA. She had season tickets, until her local team folded.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
If she prefers the WNBA she's not a basketball fan, she's blind
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Nov 21, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
she goes to NBA games, too
But they’re a lot more expensive.
She also likes the strategy of the women’s game, vs. the brute power of the men’s.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I've passed up so many free tickets to the Connecticut Sun it's not even funny
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Last season
Not sure when your reference point is, but the NBA was better last year then 10 or 15 years ago.
please don't go down this road, it's useless
They won’t watch the NBA because it sucked 5 years ago, but can guarantee you it sucked last year too.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Is Detlef Schrempf playing in the NBA anymore?
No? Then it’s not cool anymore.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oooh, I've actually heard of him!
He’s been on Parks & Rec!
by the finest muffins on Nov 21, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jordan retired (the second time) 13 years ago.
I’m so old…
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 21, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Pete Abe
says the difference is the owners know they can’t break the union in baseball, while that’s not true for the NBA and NFL.
He may be right. According to your link, the settlement was reached because the union folded.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
And they're about to fold again
I’m just saying that seriously damaging the sport for the sake of proving a point/making more money isn’t beyond NBA owners, and definitely not beyond MLB owners.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
And what about NHL owners?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
That's been established, they're willing to murder their sport
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Well aware
But baseball has fought more and uglier labor battles, from Curt Flood to collusion to the Selig Strike. Eventually, the hubris of the owners wore off just enough. Plus they grudgingly accepted the Union as a partner, because they realized that the Union is really damn strong and smart.
Basketball hasn’t had an “oh shit” moment like that yet. They lost part of the season you link but still had the playoffs (when most people start paying attention anyways). The owners think they can break the players’ will and get whatever they want, and I don’t particularly blame them after the players so quickly agreed to give up 5 points of BRI. But now the players are backed into a corner and done gone nuclear. We’ll see.
I hope the players tell the owners to fuck off and play overseas
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Oh, me too
Or start their own league.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I hope they start their own league
It’s fantasy, but if they can get the logistics handled I don’t see why not. It would be a great FU to the owners and keep their visibility high with the American audience.
why start their own league
when they can just have the stars do exhibition games and not have to keep around 12th men?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
That's fine for the short-term
But if they want to scare the owners into believing that they’re willing to go their own way, they’ll need to start something resembling an actual competitive league.
which is fine with me
as long as said league has trampolines.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
what does Lou Gehrig disease have to do with this?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
if they players start their own league
it’s going to be at the backing of AAU people & shoe companies.
could be interesting
What would be more interesting is where they would play.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
The big $$$ is still in ticket sales. You would have to find venues to play the games.
A lot of the biggest venues would be blocked off by the NBA. You could go to smaller cities, but they won’t get the same media appeal.
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples. I'm gonna need a different metaphor to give this nine year old. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Nov 21, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
right, the shoe companies would use their influence with college programs to gain access to their facilities
Their isn’t a nicer arena in the country than the Yum! center & it could definitely be used.
worst named arena out there? I think so
They’d be much better off with either the “KFC Bowl” OR “Burrito bowl”
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
The Bucket is cooler that the bowl
sounds like someone would be taking a shit there
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Right
because it’s totally not like someone took a big shit there already.
#highfive!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Burrito bowl sounds like
what I should call a toilet after a late night of drinking and taco bell
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Nov 21, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
so you hung out with me last night, I take it?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know a Louisville fan that likes the name
I call it The Bucket.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I gave a speech in ECO 599 one time
which was largely about why they should not call that arena the KFC Bucket.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Casinos, college arena, places like US Bank Arena
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
the WNBA played in Rockefeller center for a couple games.
I could imagine mens’ tickets going through the roof for something similar.
This is the best pic I could find, though:
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
looks like they drew pretty well
yknow, for a WNBA game
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Nov 21, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
how is this not green yet?
for shame people, for shame
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
The big money is actually in TV revenues, isn't it?
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
the exhibition games seem to be doing pretty well.
The Obama fundraiser one will be interesting to see how its covered.
I’m interested to see how Euroleague is going to deal with this. I’ve heard of a lot of insane contracts going around, but yeah, the dust could settle in a way that’s quite fun.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Who gave Michael Young a 1st place vote for MVP?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 21, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Even dumber,
Harold Reynolds said that Jose Valverde should be in the top 5.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
Not shocking that HR said something dumb and lacking in insight.
I honestly don’t know how he keeps his job. He’s not funny, interesting, nor legendary, and has never corrected his flagrant diction issues.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Nov 21, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
there's always this...
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
by -ManBearPig on Nov 21, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he hasn't sexually harassed anyone at this network yet
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 21, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
only 1 of which I'm aware
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 27, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
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