Trade Targets - NL West
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 1, 2011 11:37 PM EDT
in Hot Stove
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PrintI'm convinced Halloween is a conspiracy, designed to send us all into sugar highs to distract us from the fact that baseball is over. I think its Mars Incorporated's way of taking the focus off the fact the Chicago Cubs are once again not hosting home playoff games at Wrigley, and on to the fact that there are millions of chocolate bars that our kids need to eat. Go figure! What smashed pumpkins, frost advisories, and the trending of #ScottBoras mean, though, is that it's officially Trade Rumor season.
Given that the Reds have miniscule money/targets for free agents, I'll be breaking down trade targets division by division until Walt Jocketty and the Reds track down a few impact players, while most certainly using my usual bias and factless hunches to identify my personal preferences. Keep in mind I'm assuming the Reds and their front office are in the mood to win "now."
Tonight, we start with the NL West, they of 3 great pitching parks and the most hitter friendly field of our generation. Nothing like complicating the issues.
Onwards and upwards, Walter!
San Francisco Giants
The Giants are a really interesting potential trade partner. Though they're rich in pitching, they also feature a stud young Catcher, a highly regarded MLB ready 1B, and an established stud at 3B; in other words, they're good at what the Reds need, but they're also loaded at the positions where the Reds best prospects play (Mesoraco, Alonso, END, Frazier). They obviously need an upgrade in CF/leadoff, and I just tend to think Drew Stubbs is the kind of player they'd be targeting given the park in which they play. Would Stubbs+Bailey be a big enough package to land Madison Bumgarner? Doubtful. One arm Stubby could probably land in return, though, is Sergio Romo, a guy who I think could be our closer for 2012 and beyond.
The Dodgers are a mess. With the emergence of Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, and Clayton Kershaw, the landscape of their short term and long term payroll was going to change the path of this great franchise alone, but the pending bankruptcy and potential sale of the team parlay this into some tawdry affair. Yuck. I just don't see them getting rid of any of those three this year, though. Chad Billingsley would certainly be an upgrade to a part of the rotation, but if the Reds were going to take on his kind of salary I'd rather get a #1/#2 type starter...I think he's more of a #3 type guy. Alonso would be a great fit for them given James "Lonely" Loney's impending non-tender, and I think I could be persuaded to believe an Alonso (et al) deal for Billingsley dead is OK.
Comparing a roster built to play in PetCo Park to one built to play in GABP is tough. PetCo is notoriously gap friendly, and to the Padres' credit, they've built a roster around the ability to pitch, cover ground, and play defense. Their offense, however, is and has been pitiful. Since they picked up Anthony Rizzo in the Adrian Gonzalez trade, they seem to be set with their 1B of the future. While Nick Hundley has shown glimpses of promise, I'm sure they'd still covet Devin Mesoraco. Mat Latos would look pretty damn nice as a piece of the Reds 2012-2015 rotation, don't ya think?
The Rockies have their best two yound stars (Tulowitzki, Gonzalez) locked up for the rest of the decade, they traded their best young pitcher (Ubaldo Jimenez) last year, and have C Chris Ianetta and 1B Todd Helton signed for 2 more years for a lot of money, so they don't match up great on paper with the Reds. Seth Smith seems like an expensive marginal upgrade from Alonso at best, and I doubt Dexter Fowler could be acquired for a reasonable bounty. I see no reason to believe the Rockies would surrender Jhoulys Chacin for anything less than a package of Mesoraco and Slyde's magic TI-1990 stat-u-lator, and that's a hell of a lot to give up. Maybe the Reds make a play for Huston Street and his tailing fastball to be their closer, but sure as hell not for Mesoraco. For END and Volquez.....?
After the season Justin Upton just posted, I'm confident he's no longer considered in any trade talks. Steven Drew bent his ankle in an all-to-graphic ode to Robin Ventura and Jason Kendall, and there's no guarantee he'll be a serviceable SS anytime soon. They've got Paul Goldschmidt as their 1B of the future/now and Miguel Montero as effective catcher (though he is in his last year of arbitration and is looking at a solid raise from his 2011 salary of $3.2 million). Ian Kennedy and Daniel Hudson are going nowhere, and I'm pretty confident Micah Owings has seen his last game as a Red. A trade for J.J. Putz may be the only thing feasible here that helps the 2012 season.
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Um, trade everyone for Aaron Harang?
And rename the Reds the Cincinnati Harangutans?
by Cuetotally Amazing on Nov 1, 2011 10:41 PM EDT reply actions
I vore boobs
Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.
by Madville on Nov 2, 2011 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Jesus, mads
"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto
overwhelming boobs should always win
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
then the girl on the far left is the alltime winnar!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 8:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Apparently, she received a lovely pink flower as a prize
Why do women tilt their heads like that when they have a picture taken? Is that something that they learn, or is it instinctual? If I came upon a table of women with. Listing heads, I think I’d keep going. Should I start tilting my head?
by poojols on Nov 2, 2011 9:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
who is the one on the far left?
and the two on the right?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 2, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I need to hang out with your son
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 3, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
McCourt
has agreed to sell the Dodgers.
Frank McCourt agreed Tuesday to sell the Dodgers, abruptly surrendering the team after fighting to retain it over two years and in two courts.
McCourt and Major League Baseball have agreed to seek approval from the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for an auction of the Dodgers. The sale is expected to include the team, Dodger Stadium and the surrounding parking lots, a package bought by McCourt for $421 million in 2004 and likely to sell for two to three times as much now.
Mark Cuban is reportedly interested, but only if the price drops to below a billion.
Dunno what this means for the Dodgers payroll.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'd say they're screwed as far as free agents go
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
seems odd to me that they're going to do an auction
i would rather cuban get a team closer to here, but i don’t see how mlb can keep him out this time.
everytime I see a sentence with the words "cuban" and "closer" in it,
I cringe and think how Walt is going to screw Aroldis over.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 9:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They can and they will
He’s never going to get a team until Bud retires or he’s willing to challenge MLB in court.
by ken on Nov 2, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed, and it will probably be the second scenario
MLB owners watched as he shook up the NBA and challenged the authority of the good old boy network there. They want no part of that if at all possible.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
So, Can we move the Dodgers to the AL, and The Astros to the NL west?
by Eastwindquinn on Nov 2, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, I would really hate to see the Dodgers switch leagues
I think of them, the Reds, Giants, Braves, and Cardinals as the essential Senior Circuit teams. Maybe Pittsburgh too. Any of the rest of them could switch and I wouldn’t care.
we should move them to the Pacific Coast League.
If freakin’ Steve Garvey buys them, my hatred will be complete.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Uh.....aren't you in Philly? You might have missed someone there. :)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Eh, they've been horrible for the vast majority of their history and were the last team in the NL to integrate
In my very subjective view, they could be an AL team and it wouldn’t make much of a difference.
Alonso for Billingsley?
No way. Bills looks a lot like Burnett, to me.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 2, 2011 8:10 AM EDT reply actions
no, no, no, you got it all wrong.
I said Alonso for Billingsley dead! Zombie Billingsley is way better than Burnett!
PS. I hate when my typos spell other real words, so spell check won’t catch them…
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 8:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You do know you are allowed to proofread these, yes? :-)
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 2, 2011 8:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You very well may regret this comment
by poojols on Nov 2, 2011 9:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not sure I would take him for a bat rack.
Too expensive, not that special. I’d rather take my chances that Homer or Wood will become a decent pitcher.
Latos is a whole different ball game. I have no idea what it would take to get him, but I’m guessing a hell of a lot.
Mesoraco, Stubbs, Zack Cozart. He's yours. Cozart's injury complicates things considerably.
We’ve got options at first base so Alonso doesn’t make too much sense for us. I know it’s a lot to ask but fair considering Latos is an Ace under control for a long time.
On another note, any interest in Chase Headley? I could see us trading him for Mesoraco or Grandal.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
No.
He’s only been an average player once. This season. I’m not giving up an elite catcher for 3 years of a below average corner outfielder.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
What? Chase is an elite 3rd basemen, not COF.
Actually, I’d probably prefer Grandal. I think it’s a pretty good deal. I’m just not sure how you all felt about Frazier as a 3rd basemen so I thought there might be some interest in a young cost controlled premium defender like Headley.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
our third baseman of the future
Is Juan Francisco. I think the Reds pretty clearly see Frazier as a utility guy.
I am not convinced Francisco can make it as a big league player, though his arm and his power are certainly intoxicating. So I would be interested in Headley. Fangraphs likes his defense at 3B. Dunno if I’d trade Grandal for him, but I’d think about it.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Right.
The Reds don’t need him/wouldn’t want him as a 3B, so to us he’s a below average corner OF.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think I'd seriously consider that deal for Latos
I hate to give up those players, but you have to give to get, and all that. Though I’m kind of surprised those are the players you want. Many Reds fans have doubts about them.
Cozart’s injury shouldn’t complicate things. He’s a position player, not a pitcher, and the TJ surgery was to his non-throwing arm, anyway. He’ll be fine.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Not knowing Latos' contract situation (I doubt he even has one at this point)
I’d do it. That seriously hurts the Reds’ up-the-middle defense, but I think it’s worth it.
I’d love Headley, but I don’t see the Reds pursuing that with holes at SS and LF.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Latos is pre-arb still
I’d seriously consider this one, especially since it includes Mesoraco!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 7, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
the thing is
the Reds are going to sign a veteran SS anyway. If Cozart is traded, it will have to be someone who can play everyday, not a Renteria type. But I think that is probably going to happen anyway. Walt was trying to Dusty-proof the roster by signing a part-time player like Renteria, but got burned on it. Probably won’t do it again, at least without more depth at SS than he’s currently got.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wonder if they'll make a play for Hardy/Reimold or somesuch
and I wonder if such a play would be a good thing.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
The Orioles just signed Hardy to an extension
I doubt they trade him now.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 7, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I dont know your system as well. I wanted Alonso, but I heard you guys say he couldnt run a route to save his life.
A credible deal would probably be built around Grandal and Alonso. But with the logjam at first, we’ve got no place to put Alonso and we desperately need his bat. My offer was basically a poorly thought out reaction to that. Just trying to get a read of what Reds fans think would be a fair offer.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
I think, at one point, I proposed Mesoraco, Heisey, and Wood.
For a pre-arb pitcher with his track record, I think that’d be a pretty reasonable offer.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 7, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
what's the deal with Kyle Blanks?
Is he just not that much of a prospect after all?
Alonso in PETCO’s LF would be frightening, but if it was him or Blanks, I don’t know…
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Alonso has only recently started playing LF
I don’t think he’s that bad on routes. He’s inexperienced, but I think his instincts are good.
The real problem is his footspeed. He might lose a race to a Molina brother. He’s trying to fix that by losing weight this winter. We’ll see how it goes. I don’t think he’s worse than Adam Dunn in LF.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
This lady is right
You could teach Alonso to be respectable when it came to judging balls, routes,s etc. You’re not going to make him average speed-wise. He’s amazingly slow.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
This is a cool idea for a series
Although I have a feeling I’m going to have a hard time reading them since you’ll be including Mesoraco in every trade proposal.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 2, 2011 8:36 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
ha!
The NL west was particularly tricky, since almost the entire division is composed of teams on the cusp of a playoff season, with no clear rebuilding efforts. Seems like for any deal to work, they’d want an MLB ready player, so Mesoraco kept coming up.
And proofreading is for the birds!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 8:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
we have Grandal, so Mesoraco is very expendible
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 2, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely.
Trading the consensus future star, MLB ready guy in favor of a guy who has yet to hit in AAA is always a sound strategy.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 2, 2011 9:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BOOM!
Snark via mobile is the best kind of snark!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Grandal's hit in AAA
to the tune of .500/ .667 / .667 / 1.334
(sample size may be small)
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on Nov 2, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, because any time a guy hits .500 I'm sure the sample size is large enough to be meaningful.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I hit .500 my freshman year in high school
………I was 1-2 with a walk………
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
I love you consistently use the smallest of sample sizes as if they mean anything.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
um
I specifically said “sample size may be small.”
You said he had “yet to hit in AAA.” That is incorrect. He has hit in AAA.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Are you always this literal?
If we both know the sample size is meaningless, why even quote it?
My guess is just to be difficult.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
you're not exactly in a position to be calling other people difficult
I’m just saying you’re wrong. “Yet to hit in AAA” has two possible meanings. One is that he has yet to get a single at-bat in AAA. One is that he has, but hasn’t hit well. Neither is true.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Or,
it’s that he hasn’t demonstrated an ability to hit there for any length of time to demonstrate that he can handle the level.
18 PAs is the very definition of a meaninless sample. Yes, literally, he hit there. But in the context of that making Mesoraco expendable, he hasn’t hit in AAA yet.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that's not a standard use of the term
And I think it’s misleading, which is why I corrected it.
If I said “Zack Cozart has yet to hit in the big leagues,” you’d be all over me like white on rice. And justifiably so, because that is not correct.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
That is correct, if the context was
“There is no reason to even think about the SS position, because Zack Cozart has proven he can hit in the big leagues”
It’s true that he hasn’t proven he can hit in the big leagues, just like Grandal hasn’t proven he can hit AAA pitching, which is clearly what I meant. I’m sorry that you misunderstood.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think you need to get laid, dude
Tension breaker time!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
So many options here.
There could be something about asking your wife whether I need to get laid. Or asking your mother.
I’ll just go with how I can always count on you to provide the patronizing, vague, “can’t quite put my finger on why you are so arrogant, but you are” comment.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I agree
let’s have a RR fundraiser
’creds coitus collection
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 3, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If you insist on trolling, you should at least be original
OBWOK, at the least, comes up with his own ways of being annoying.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
this place used to be fun....
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 5, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
There are literally thousands of sites on the Internet where you can be an unimaginative troll
You are welcome to go have “fun” on one of them.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 5, 2011 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
glad to see your sense of humor has no hope to return
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
I appreciate things that are funny, even at my expense
jch is very good at this. If you want to be derivative, you should follow his lead.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 9:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
nah, you don't get it
it’s cool
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, you're just not funny.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 11:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, that's it
last time I checked there are people that will agree with you, more people that will disagree with you
but at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter that you don’t realize you’re part of the problem of this site, or maybe you do and you just don’t care
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, am I just a part of groupthink, or am I in the majority?
And if you don’t like it here, no one is forcing you to post.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
redundant, no?
groupthink typically implies majority
combating groupthink and people like you forces me to post here!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Oops, I meant minority
Maybe I’m part of the problem because I can’t type.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Justin's gotten to all of us!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
x
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 4, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so here's the deal....
Mesoraco won’t see meaningful time in Cincy in 2012, so why have him take PAs from Grandal in Louisville?
Trade Mesoraco and others for something that’ll actually help the MLB club, while we can live with Clutch Man Monie and Hanigan for another year til we have Grandal and Hanigan in Cincinnati
Sounds like a plan to me
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 3, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You lost me at
“Mesoraco won’t see meaningful time in Cincy in 2012”.
If you really believe that, then there isn’t really anything to talk about.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Hernandez didn't get traded and Hanigan got an extension...
that’s actually not that far from a reasonable thought process.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 4, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
KMIB said it pretty well
We extended Hanigan, we didn’t trade Hernandez.
Sure, there’s the whole arbitration situation and maybe chances are we offer, he somehow magically declines and we get some compensation and he no longer is on the team and then sure, Mesoraco and Hanigan will split time.
But I have a feeling that The Dusty wants him some more Clutch Man Monie in 2012.
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 5, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanigan's contract
makes him attractive trade bait.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I suppose
but really only as a back up, IMO
I don’t see any team wanting him to be the 70% catcher, and I don’t think he’s a good fit for us there either
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
Hernandez hasn't been offered arb yet
There has been zero indication that they will negotiate a contract, and he is officially off the 40 man roster.
I see zero reason why you’d have any confidence Mesoraco won’t see significant time in 2012, other than the irrational bias you have against him.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 5, 2011 4:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's not irrational bias
just stating observation, but clearly you’re always right massa, so I will get back in line with the groupthink
I just want my 40 acres and a mule
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
It is actually the very definition of irrational
Because there is lots and lots of evidence to support him being a good player, and basically none against it, yet you insist he sucks.
I’ll use one of you and your little crew’s favorite sayings. Show your work.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 9:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
show my work, you say?
Devin Mesoraco, thanks to Fangraphs
Mesoraco didn’t do anything until 2010 in A+ and AA, but then stunk up the joint in 14 games in AAA.
Then he had a great 120 games in AAA in 2011, then got his cup of coffee in the show and wow did he impress! Those were some memorable 18 games!
My concern is, the first 233 games of Mesoraco’s career in the minors, wow was he forgettable.
Since then, he’s only put together a damn good 219, although with 32 not included where he again stunk up the joint.
So, do we know the true Mesoraco? Am I right? Are you right? I’m not saying he’ll be a bust, but let’s not proclaim him the next best thing since sliced bread.
But, show your evidence to support this good player, b/c right now I see evidence that supports we don’t know what we have.
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
This is a very wrongheaded argument
First, more recent performance is always given more weight than older performance. Always, and by everyone. Scouts, saber-y types and their projection systems, GMs when offering contracts, everyone.
This is doubly true when talking about prospects, who tend to develop at different paces, and triply true when talking about HS cold-weather catchers.
Basically, you are denying that a teenage catcher from a cold weather state who spent most of his 2 first seasons battling injuries could have possibly turned a corner and made a breakthrough.
After last year there was some reason for skepticism, but he followed last years breakout (and he didn’t stink in AAA. He OPSed .772, which was above average for the league.) with another excellent 2011. So you are caring more about 3 seasons ago where he had hand injuries and was playing in a league (the FSL) that made all Reds hitters not named Jay Bruce suck hard, yet ignoring his AAA performance where he played well, which many recent prospects have not done, and was young for the league.
Also, to compare him to Grandal, they are almost the same age (5 mths apart) yet Meso hit better in AAA than Grandal did in AA this year. Meso hit better in both A+ and AA as a younger player last year than Grandal did this year, even though Grandal got to play in the most hitter friendly league in baseball.
You are welcome to not like Meso or to think he’ll suck, but don’t pretend there is any kind of legit evidence to back up the opinion. He could suck, but there certainly isn’t reason to assume so, and certainly no reason to assume he’ll suck and Grandsl will be awesome. (side note, I think theyll both be very good and would like to keep both.)
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 11:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
so we're going to just brush it off as "he had a thumb injury, and he's cool now"?
I don’t buy it
I like that you just gave me a true, doubly true, and triply true. I mean really? Get. off. your. high. f’n. horse.
I’m not denying that maybe Mesoraco turned that corner, but show me more. He’s still young, he still has plenty to prove, so let’s not give him the key to the city and have parades for him quite yet, k? All I know is that at the end of 2010, Mesoraco didn’t do well in AAA. He had a great 2011 in AAA, but I’m more concerned with your pronouncing him the next great thing when he’s all of what, 23? What has he done at age 23 in professional baseball to prove to any of us beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s legit, and it’s not just mere conjecture?
I question your reading comprehension skills when I said that Mesoraco’s had a damn good 219 games, including those 120 last year in AAA. I don’t know how I can make it any more clear for you. I don’t hate the kid, I just hate overhyped prospects, as they bust more than they blossom.
Honestly, it’s not fair to compare Mesoraco to Grandal at this point b/c they are at different stages of their careers even though they are similiar in age. Some people will prefer Grandal, some will prefer Mesoraco. That’s fine. I just don’t see this compelling evidence that Mesoraco is the next big thing at this time of his career. He could be, but he just doesn’t have the body of work to this point to really convince me, and I don’t think I’m alone.
But maybe I am?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Talk about a straw man
No one is anointing him the next Bench. (at least, I’m not) I just think he’s done everything he needs to be given a shot in the bigs, he’s currently the best C prospect in baseball, and he has both the tools and minor league performance to warrant a fair bit of optimism. And if the Reds really are in win-now mode, trading him in favor of Grandal would be really dumb.
But by all means, just keep throwing around insults.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
pot, meet kettle
and I believe you made reference to Mesoraco re: Bench
Are the Reds in a win-now mode?
Doesn’t seem like it
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that Bench was also a HS catcher
And dismissing him because of that would be dumb.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Also, it wasn't just the injury.
It was that, the extreme pitchers league, and a HS cold weather catcher being slow to develop.
All of those, combined with the last 2 years of elite performance, combined with scouting consensus that elite tools are there, means that it’s unfair to kill him for his first 2 seasons like you are doing.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
so what happened to him @ AAA in 2010?
and then @ the MLB level in SSS this year?
you said we should care more about his more recent performance, no?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously?
He OPSed .772 in AAA in 2010 in a tiny sample. He walked, hit for huge power, and had a crazy low BABIP. He did just fine.
In his tiny MLB sample his BABIP was .188 or something crazy. I think you and BF need a lesson in why we ignore samples that small.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
but conversely, if he had a great showing in that same sample size....
people would be even more so all over his nuts
so, selective end points work both ways
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
No they don't.
If he had sucked all of 2010 but had a fantastic final 60 PAs we wouldn’t have considered it a breakout. Why? Because his total yearly numbers still would’ve sucked.
So when you take his 2010 AAA numbers (which were still pretty decent) as part of his overall season numbers, you see he had a great year.
If he had had those exact PAs to end the year in AA you wouldn’t even have noticed them, but because the level separates them on FG, you can cherry-pick them as “proof” of his struggles. But there is so much noise in a sample that small, isolating it is basically meaningless. If 60 PAs were proof of anything, you could find stretches of performance to prove anyone sucks, or is awesome.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no cherry picking
just showing the breakdown of Mesoraco’s stats at each level was all
I want to see him put up what he did in 2011 @ AAA in Cincinnati in 2012, however that would require at least no CMM or no Hanigan, and I really hope the Reds don’t get rid of Hanigan
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I thought Meso looked good in Cincy this year.
He had good ABs, played good defense, and handled the staff well. He was weighed down by a ridiculous BABIP that was below .200
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm worried by how much he reminds me of David Ross.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 6, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting. How so?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 12:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
his swing more than his numbers, really.
They both have pretty compact swings. It was the first impression I got from watching Mes, and every time afterwards it still resembled Ross…not that its a terrible thing (Ross has turned out to be OK), but for the value we place on him I hope its just a coincidence.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 6, 2011 1:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
while D. Ross never hit for a great AVG
.768 OPS from a catcher isn’t the worst thing in the world, but we clearly want more from Mesoraco
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's reasonable, but
Meso has already shown more power than Ross ever did.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
odd, I was a fan of David Ross
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
me too
I’m still not sure what happened when he got DFAd. He was still hitting pretty well, but he just clearly did not give a fuck anymore. It seemed like every throw in from the outfield he would drop. I think there was a story there that we just didn’t hear.
And yeah, Mesoraco turning into a ~2 win catcher is, I think, the safe expectancy 50th percentile sort of thing.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
we need a bell curve!
show us some standard deviation!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
and there's a lot of value to non-offense for a catcher
handling pitchers, plate defense, throwing, all that stuff, I can’t put an accurate price/value on that, and I really do appreciate that Mesoraco I feel upgrades the Reds in that department
but, if Mesoraco doesn’t improve on his 2011 MLB selective end points, having a stud defensive backstop only benefits us so much
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't that impressed with Mez' defense, frankly
Doesn’t mean he won’t be great one day. It’s a tough adjustment for a young catcher, getting used to a new league and new pitchers. And it was of course a very small sample size. I do think Mez is more likely to bloom than bust…but even Matt Wieters struggled his first year, and it wasn’t until year 3 that he really came into his own.
It may be just a fluke, but Hernanigans have been great for us. Mez may be better than the two-headed catching monster one day, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it took a year or three.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
since you brought up Wieters....
is he officially a bust?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
.778 OPS this year in the hardest division in baseball
He was worth around 4 wins, and is 25.
So, no. Not a bust.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
so when is the cut off for us to determine his bust status?
age 27?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know
But Wieters was an above average MLB hitter and well above average overall player.
At any age, that equals not a bust.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 6:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so how would you rate his body of work to date?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
He's posted 7.5 WAR over his first three seasons
with a nice 4.3 season last year. I think his bat is coming around, and his defense is supposedly – like, for reals, not like Charlie Sheen hyperbole – legendary.
I’m fully confident he’s gonna be one the best catchers in the league for at least a few years going forward. It’s hard to ask much more than that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he does more.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 7, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I've always rooted for him
but I’ve felt he’s underperformed until last season
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he's a bust at all
But he’s taken awhile to adjust. That is absolutely expected with a young catcher.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
/young anyone.
Poor Wieters took slag for not being Buster Posey. But I think Wieters will be more valuable going forward.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Wieters probably won't catch in 5 years
he’ll 1B or DH
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
why do you say that?
He struggled his first year on defense, but has been excellent since.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
he is 6'5"
which is awfully tall for a catcher. Your boy Russel Martin, on the other hand…
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Cy beat me to it
he’s a tall drink of water
and it didn’t have anything to do with his defense, but rather the Orioles trying to maximize his longevity, if they’re able to keep him an Oriole
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder how tall
Salvador Perez really is? He’s listed at 6’-3", but looks taller. 6’-3" was his height when he was signed at age 17. Bet he’s taller now.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Mauer's gonna move for the same reason
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Mauer's gonna move b/c catching is ruining his legs
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 8, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Because he's 6'4" and we're not built for that shit
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
There are few times I say something like this
But if Ramon Hernandez is on the Cincinnati Reds in 2012, somebody fucked up BIG TIME.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Nov 7, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what is your definition of consensus?
what do you define as MLB ready? does that equal “Clutch Man Monie is old”?
seriously, gimme The U product over a HS catcher 8 days a week
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 3, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Find me a scout/baseball person who doesn't think he is going to be a solidly above average MLB catcher
Most think he has distinct all-star potential.
MLB ready is fairly simple. It means he’s ready to play in the majors. Not sure what Hernandez has to do with anything.
Johnny Bench was a HS catcher.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000439439/polls_Boom_4255_225377_poll_xlarge.gif
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Crum-Bum Beat
so Mesoraco will end up playing a different position?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 5, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
there's that word, potential
He’s only ready to play in the majors b/c he’s 3rd on the Reds depth chart. This is a devil’s advocate question/statement, but tell me all the MLB teams he’d start for right now.
Mesoraco was blocked in 2011 by Hernandez & Hanigan. Best case scenario, he splits time with Hanigan in 2012.
We all hope Mesoraco turns into the next Johnny Bench, but I wouldn’t hang my hat on that
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 5, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head,
There are probably about 17-20 MLB teams that would gladly take him and make him their starting C in 2012, including at least 3 in our division.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 5, 2011 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and is that a statement against their shitty players?
or his talent?
that was kind of the spirit of my previous question
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
Does it matter?
If he’s currently better than over half the starting C in the league, then I’d say he’s MLB ready by definition.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 9:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
you don't get it
just b/c the talent pool sucks doesn’t mean that Mesoraco is “better”, or “ready”
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Um, if he's better than 17-20 current catchers, then he's better, period.
Also, MLB readiness has more to do with it than that. His defense is polished, he calls a good game, and he has a fairly advanced approach at the plate. I’m not sure what else you want from him.
Oh, right, you want him to never have struggled in the minors, ever.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 11:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he struggled in the minors
the numbers show that
you and I are just talking past each other…. just b/c you can start for the Houston Astros, or the Kansas City Royals of the world doesn’t mean you’re really a MLB catcher. That’s my point.
Same statement about the Reds. Just b/c you’re starting for the Reds doesn’t mean you’re necessarily an upper echelon catcher, but rather you’re just the next name on the depth chart.
I just want to see him actually put up some awesome numbers at the MLB level, and that will tell me he’s MLB ready
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
So every HS player who ever struggles as a teenager early on in the lower minors is bound to be a bust?
And if more than half of MLB teams would like him to be their starting C in 2012, I’d say that means you are an MLB catcher.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Or, he's an MLB catcher.
You would be too, except that rough month you had in rookie ball means you are bound to be a bust.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that's exactly what I'm saying....
You’re missing the point….
just b/c the talent of the catching pool isn’t that great, and Mesoraco COULD start, means he SHOULD start
Is Mesoraco ready to be the full-time catcher for the Reds in 2012? Some say yes, some say no, but I think he needs more time to continue on the success he had @ AAA in 2011, as opposed to the lousy almost 18 games he played in Cincy
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Mez should be back in AAA
Grandal’s already there, and it doesn’t look like he has any more to learn in AA.
Mez might struggle to adjust to the big leagues, but I think he belongs there, not in Louisville.
Unfortunately, that might not be compatible with the “win now” Votto window.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
and that's the rub
are we really in a win now mode or window, given the roster configuration?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not
We might be better off trading Votto and letting this young team develop at its own pace.
That’s not going to happen, though.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Here's the thing
Ramon ended up with a merely good year. .788 OPS is good, but given his age, it is not at all a stretch to think Meso can outfit him this year for 4-6 million less. Even in ’win-now mode, Devin makes more sense.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 6:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we're on the same page here
I don’t want CMM on the roster in 2012
but they didn’t trade him in July, which I think boggled all of us
if CMM stays on the roster, and they don’t trade Hanigan, then what happens to Mesoraco? More AAA time? Which might not be a bad thing
I just don’t think they should trade Hanigan to make room for Mesoraco and keep CMM
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I just really don't think there's any danger of CMM being on the roster in 2012
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Well then I have to agree with HLM
I see some danger to having CMM on the roster.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I would have believed that had we traded him in July
I think there’s danger of us trading Hanigan for no good reason
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 8, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Honest question: Who besides you doesn't think he's ready to be an MLB starter in 2012?
And that’s not just on this site, but anywhere.
Find me one person who explicitly states he isnt ready.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Actually, that is EXACTLY what it means
If you have someone available that is better than 2/3 of your competition, they are ready to play. Plain and simple.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I still think it just means you're "the best" at a weak position
MLB catching is weak IMO, but that doesn’t mean that b/c you’re on a MLB roster means you’re ready.
It just means that MLB teams have to have catchers behind the plate
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
It's almost like you refused to read the "better than 2/3" part altogether
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
we're arguing semantics
and you refused to read anything that I posted to that which you replied!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 8, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Also,
I’d be thrilled for him to just turn into Brian McCann, but you seem stubbornly convinced that his ceiling is Paul Bako.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 5, 2011 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
McCann hits Left, throws Right...
he’s more like Grandal!!!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think his ceiling is somewhere between Geovany Soto and Russell Martin
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 6, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
you know what's fun?
Looking at Bench’s stats. He came into the league as a 19 year-old! He hit way worse than Mesoraco did, and then went on to be, y’know, Johnny Bench. He was also the 8th catcher taken in the 1965 draft. Ray Fosse, Gene Lamont, and a whole lot of dudes you’ve never heard of were taken before him.
What’s my point? None of us have idea what we’re talking about, which is just fine.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
one thing I'm pretty sure I have an idea about
is that a lot of prospects see their tradeable-asset status peak before their rookie status expires.
Think the Reds could have gotten more in return for the Jay Bruce of 3 years ago than the Jay Bruce now? How about Homer Bailey? Brandon Larson?
Mesoraco may well turn out to be a C who OPS’s .880 for 10 years and wins 4 gold gloves. He might be a guy who ends up catching 110 games a year, OPSing .760 and calling a decent game.
When the Reds have (Hanigan/Mesoraco/Grandal) a glut of valuable assets and the relatively cheap opportunity to make it a larger glut (Hernandez), trading the piece with the most return value shouldn’t be off the table when you’re wanting to “win-now.”
If Mesoraco takes as long to develop as Wieters has, the Reds will be losing significant production from their catching tandem with a Mes/Hanigan combo in comparison to a Hernanigans combo. If the goal is truly to win in the 2 years Votto’s signed, maybe Mesoraco is exactly who should be traded…!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 6, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I would totally be with this, except
You are assuming that Grandal will definitely be a productive MLBer, and if there are questions about Meso (there are) there are definitely more about Grandal.
The other is that I don’t trust Hernandez to continue to be a productive and above average C much longer.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that's valid.
And yes, I’m assuming Grandal is the second coming of Victor Martinez…so sue me!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 7, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Me too
Of course, I think Meso can be the next Brian McCann, with more power and less OBP…so sue me!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 7, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Good God
I hope you are prepared to be at least a little disappointed
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
by kcgard2 on Nov 7, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
pshaw
McCann’s better looking!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with ya
I think the Reds need to look at all of their assets, and see what they can move to improve their team as a whole
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not to detract from your overall point, but Bench showed the power potential in the minors
Over 20 HRs per season as an 18 and 19 year-old. That might not have screamed HOF, but it certainly warranted excitement and hasty promotions.
by ken on Nov 6, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with your point
Prediction is difficult, especially about the future.
People are really, really terrible at predicting the future. Even experts aren’t very good at it.
One thing that does correlate with accurate predictions: uncertainty about whether you’re right. The people who are most certain that they are right are the most likely to be wrong. Probably because their certainty blinds them to evidence that’s contrary to their position.
If we were smart, we’d pay attention to those who express doubt about their predictions. But it’s human nature to do the opposite. We tend to follow the one who is the most confident.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
guilty
I’m just stating my opinion, and it’s very possible I have no idea what I’m talking about
except when it comes to MOSS, then I’m an expert
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Romo is an interesting name to me because he shouldn't cost a lot in trade
Picking up any Giants starter would be a good deal for the Reds, though I would only want Vogelsong if he came rather cheap, maybe like Stubbs-for-Vogelsong straight up, or END+Sappelt would be even better.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I'm probably the biggest Romosexual on this site of ours
but I don’t believe in giving up all too much for what will be 70-100 innings. I mean, sure, a 14.00 K/BB ratio (!!!!) would be nice to have, but it’s not worth Alonso.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Nov 2, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
on the other hand,
every picture of him on the internet makes him look like the cuddliest Peshmerga ever, so I could be convinced:
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Probably not (well, definitely not)
But he’d be worth a fair bit. He’s under control for 3 more years at below market wages. That’s got significant value.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 2, 2011 9:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd like him , but I don't know the package I'd put together.
Giants don’t have much else on the table that isn’t prohibitively expensive, unless you think Runzler or someone like that is worth it. So maybe you’d talk Heisey + some dude in AA?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I pondered Stubbs straight up.
I just think his game would suit that park perfectly. Also, and I’ve said this before somewhere, I don’t think the Reds can get as much value out of him in GABP since there’s just not nearly as much ground to cover (which is also why I’m comfortable with Heisey as the everyday CF. GABP’s cozy.)
That swap would likely have some minor leaguers involved too, of course, but I like it more each time I consider it.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 10:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I suppose I'm just more down on Heisey then most people here.
But I could see that happening. Just y’all gotta promise not to hate when the Reds have another sub-300 OBP guy in CF.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
similar K's, too.
I guess my point is that they’re pretty similar from a production standpoint, but from a trade value perspective I think Stubbs would be much more regarded…so if one’s gonna go, I’d rather get more in return.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 10:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
word.
I suppose it comes down to roster construction preferences. I like having a CF who’s not prone to breaking down and who plays premium defense. I’d rather give up Heisey + a greater prospect to keep Stubbs around then you, but I don’t really think there’s a “right” answer.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Conversely
GABP plays well to Stubbs’ hitting strengths. His power plays well to both RF and LF, and I’d imagine playing in the NL West would eat five or so of his home runs a year.
So yeah, Catch-22.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 2, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
True.
I wish the Rasmus trade hadn’t involved so many players so it would be easier to break down what his value was. He and Stubbs have pretty similar careers so far.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus > Stubbs
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 3, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Dontcha kinda hafta look at a pitcher from SD or SF like you look at a hitter from COL?
Those numbers are gonna take a hit.
by poojols on Nov 2, 2011 9:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Billingsley is probably the most realistic bet
Even though I’m not a big fan. If the price tag on him is dropped a bit I suspect we could get something done.
He's owed $35 mil over the next three years
No way am I touching that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 2, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you're thinking of Broxton
But I would be a fan of getting a bullpen of Broxton, Jenks, Rich Garces, and Bartolo Colon for next year, if for nothing else than so that Sabbathia would come to a team that he’d fit in with.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Unhealthy BMIs are the new market ineffiency
by ken on Nov 2, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
That is directly stolen material from me!
plagiarism!
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
may I direct you to
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what is going to be weird about the Dodgers all offseason
Their financial situation is going to be in flux for a while, so any free agent signings or trades involving them eating salary probably aren’t happening.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I don't know about that
Any person or group interested in buying a MLB team probably isn’t going to balk at an extra $15-$20 million. In a deal of that magnitude, that’s almost chump change. And the team could claim, perhaps legitimately so, it’s the cost of doing business.
"This is the St. Louis Cardinals we're talking about. They suck. Screw them. With a shovel. The sharp metal end. And then set them on fire." - crolfer
by rorschach1979 on Nov 2, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but the point is,
until said ownership group officially takes control, it’s going to be hard to authorize any kind of expenditure like that. In the interim (which, given the messy nature of this sale, could be a long time), I doubt the front office does anything involving a lot of money unless it is re-signing current players.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
They've got big decisions to make with Kemp and Ethier
Both are FAs after ‘12. Tying down either to an eight-figure extension might not look great on the balance sheets while the team is for sale, but they’re going to be in bad shape if they let both of them go for just draft picks.
by ken on Nov 2, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
My guess is those are going to be tough enough for the FO to deal with without adding in complicated trade discussions involving taking on a lot of money.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
One trade with the Dodgers can solve all of our infield woes.
by FordhamRam on Nov 2, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
The nice thing about Huston Street is that he'll be 28,
fills a need the Reds have and allows us to use the phrase “Occupy Huston Street.”
But he’s significantly more expensive, adding up his contract and trade loot, than Coco, with potentially similar production next year.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Nov 2, 2011 1:35 PM EDT reply actions
I think Mat Latos is the correct choice. She's pretty hot.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Nov 2, 2011 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
holy hell, Latos it is!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Nov 2, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
move the damn jersey
let’s get a closer look at that arm
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 2, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Theo is an Idiot.
He basically said the next manager would be someone not named Ryan Sandburg.
by Eastwindquinn on Nov 2, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This on's for 'than
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Nov 2, 2011 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
well, one thing is clear
nycredsfan and highlifeman sure know how to have fun on a sunday!
by 'tHan on Nov 6, 2011 6:06 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
It was rather enjoyable. The best part is that most of the "mobile" posts I made were while driving on the interstate.
Reckless multi-tasking FTW!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Nov 6, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't wait to see obc and HLM get in a fight over who gets to take drunken 'creds back to their place after the RR Christmas Party
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
hey 'creds
ever been to Paris?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wee wee, mouse ear
This thread needs johnu.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 7, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
so we can talk about coaching?
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 7, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
obc/ewok and I will take you there again!
ifyouknowwhatI’msayin’
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 8, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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