Quick 40 Man Roster Update
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 8:02 AM EDT
in Off-season
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The Reds 40-man roster stands at 40 again with the addition of Denis Phipps, who was added a few days a go to seek shelter from the Rule 5 Draft. For practical purposes though, the roster is actually at 38 as it still lists the names of free agents Edgar Renteria, Ramon Hernandez and Dontrelle Willis, but not Zach Cozart (who has to be returned to the 40-man at the conclusion of the season).
Other notable players still sitting in the cold void of eligibility for the major league portion of the Rule 5 Draft are below. This is not a complete list. (Eligibility rules here. Drafted players must stay on drafting team's active roster or MLB DL for entire season)
*Not 100% on this one, since he played independent ball
Let me know if I've left anyone out. Compiling this list is a little tricky, as they've recently changed the rules and it's not always easy to get the cut-off information straight, both for age and elapsed time since signing.
The gist of it is: I think it's very unlikely they add anyone else beyond Phipps and Soto, with the possible exception of Jerry Gil. No one here is likely to be a factor in the Reds' future plans at the major league level - nor, mostly for that reason, particularly vulnerable to being placed on the active roster of another major league team next season.
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no, no
Future hall of famer Mike Costanzo must be protected!
Seriously, thanks for this. Love these hot stove updates.
I’d say for practical purposes, the roster stands at 38, because Cozart (currently on the 60-day DL) is going to be added by the deadline.
I also seriously wonder if the Reds are planning to keep one or all of Hernandez, Renteria, and Willis. The Fay and others think the Reds want to keep Ramon to mentor Mez, and perhaps trade Hanigan instead. It would explain why they didn’t trade CMM when they could. Walt has said he will sign a veteran SS to back up Cozart. Teh Fay says it won’t be Renteria, but I wonder. It’s not like there are a lot of other choices out there. And Willis…a lot of us here at RR want to keep him.
There really aren’t a lot of players down on the farm that need to be protected. Yonder, Sap and Mez were added during the season.
Couple of possibilities:
JC Sulbaran. Not sure about him; he was drafted in 2008, but did not play that year. Dunno if he counts or not.
Neftali Soto. He’s played well this season, and is worth protecting if Phipps is, IMO.
There might also be some players on the roster that are worth un-protecting. Kris Negron? Chris Valaika?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Sorry, Bubba...
But I see Janish as #1 on the list of players currently on the 40-man who could be gone. Particularly if they plan to sign a veteran SS. Maybe he would be willing to take a minor league deal.
by poojols on Oct 29, 2011 10:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's possible
But I don’t think he’s #1. I think the Reds will want some depth at SS. It might be better for Janish if they trade him or cut him loose, but I think they’ll probably sign him to a relatively cheap big league contract, then stash him in Louisville, since he still has options.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
This seems likely
I think Burton, Negron, and Valaika can all be culled with little remorse, leaving plenty of room to add free agents and trades. Janish himself would probably not be missed but for the depth he represents.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 29, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they need that depth
They can’t cut both Janish and Negron and I don’t see why they’d cut either at least until they acquire another SS in the offseason. Cozart’s return in ST isn’t a sure thing.
They’re the only two guys active on the 40-man right now that can field the position and Billy Hamilton won’t be an option next year. Didi won’t either.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think they'd lose either Negron nor Valaika if they outrighted them
They’d clear waivers and end up in Louisville.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Hamilton probably won't be in the conversation in 2013 either.
I’d guess 2014 is the year where we can start legitimately talking about Hamilton being an option at SS, and that’s if all goes well in his development.
I don't think Sulbaran is vulnerable
because I think he gets 5 years regardless, having been signed at 18. I thought Soto wasn’t either. He was 18 when he signed, so he gets five years too.
Yeah, I think Negron’s race might be run if they need his spot. He had a nice year in 2010: good SS defense, 35 SBs and he got on base. But he hasn’t done anything at 25 in AAA.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Soto
has had 5 years. He was drafted in 2007.
You’re right about Sulbaran. He was born really late in the year, so would have been 18 when he signed.
Negron’s a cutie and I hope he sticks around, even if he’s outrighted off the roster. But his play has been disappointing. Not only did he not hit, when just about everyone else in Lousiville turned into Mickey Mantle last year – his fielding was pretty disappointing, too. Honestly, I think if he’d been solid on defense the Reds might have given him a callup, but as it was…there was just no point.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He was signed 6/15/07
at Age 18, so as of 6/15/11 he had 4 years. As of the Rule 4 draft he has about 4.5. I think he’s safe until next year. I’m not positive on the end date for draft eligibility, but I don’t think it’s 6/15/12.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
*Rule 5
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that's how it works
It’s not calendar years. It’s how many seasons they’ve been in pro ball.
For Soto: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.
That’s five years.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I thought it had to be a full year
and the clock begins at the signing of the contract.
I think you might be right though. This is the 5th Rule 5 draft since Soto signed, so I think that’s the rule of thumb. He’ll definitely be on the roster.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
would anyone be suprised to see Sulbaran get his shit together and end up in Louisville before 2012 is over?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
It just seems silly to keep Ramon and trade Hanigan
they have Hanigan locked up for a few years and he would be a fine compliment to either Mez or Grandel, as I assume and hope one of those guys is a Reds catcher for a very long time. Don’t the Reds have some sort of coach who can tutor the young catchers? It seems like a waste of money and Hanigan to keep Hernandez around to be a wet nurse.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
but Hanigan as a second part of a larger trade is a pretty attractive addition.
Lots of teams need players like Hanigan.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 30, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It kinda sucks talking about this piddling stuff alongside the Cardinals celebration
and then seeing a piece on Reds.com about how the Reds supposedly don’t have any money and aren’t going to do anything.
Cordero’s option being picked up is mentioned as a real option there – and at least one other credible source said they were “thinking about” the option. At the very least, less than half Cordero’s salary coming off the books shouldn’t be an imaginable option. In no way should Cordero prevent acquiring a starting pitcher.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
honestly the money issue is putting me off of baseball
like it never really bothered me before Votto, but it just sucks that the Reds can do everything right, draft well, develop well, and get maybe 2-4 years a decade where they have a chance at winning the World Series, where the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, and other deep pocket teams really can fix their solutions with money. It just sucks that Votto will not be a Red in 2014, that we develop one of the best hitters in the game, get him for 2 development years, 4 years of his prime, and than he is gone. And you know what, if he wanted to leave because he would rather live in New York City, Chicago, Toronto, or Florida I wouldn’t be that upset, people should be able to live and work where they want to. But if he simply leaves because New York, Chicago, or L.A., or Boston offer him something like 8 years
Hell Albert Pujols, the face of the St. Louis Cardinals, a man who has a chance to be this generations Stan Musuil in that city, doesn’t think that $195M over 9 years plus being the most popular man in St. Louis is enough! As much as I may dislike St. Louis I think that sucks. Money really shouldn’t be a serious issue if he wants to stay in St. Louis and the Cardinals want to keep him.
I am just as much of a fan as Yankee’s and Red Sox’s fans are but the team I root for doesn’t have the same opportunities as the Red Sox or Yankees. If baseball had an level playing field the Reds could go out and get the top of the staff starter they need, plus probably add an additional Marcum-esque guy in the rotation.
This is just a typical jusitn (sic) socialist rant, like I am genuinely trying to figure out why I should spend money and time on something that is fundamentally unfair towards my favorite franchise.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Oct 29, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
All good points.
But you can take solace in this: those big money teams aren’t really buying championships, and frequently they are hamstringing themselves by playing that game. The Red Sox, Phillies, and Yankees have won only three of the last 10 World Series. The Yankees and Phillies have lost in two more. That’s five out of 20 slots, not so many, really. The Cubs are in deep and will take a while to get out of it. I’d hate to see the Reds lose Votto—but I don’t think it is necessarily a foregone conclusion that they will, and I don’t necessarily think we are looking at a lost decade if they do. They need to build generally better, more resilient teams like the Giants and Rays and Tigers have.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 29, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the Giants and Tigers have relatively large payrolls
And apart from last year, it’s not like either of teams has been wildly successful the last 10 years.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Oct 30, 2011 8:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, I'd gladly take one World Series every ten years (as the Giants did),
but to your point, perhaps I should have pointed to the Rangers and the Braves.
The issue is that the Reds haven’t demonstrated that they have a real philosophy they are following and in a lot of ways that seems more essential than throwing money at free agents. I’d like to see a coherent approach to building a team this summer, not finding dinky filler for the gaps they have identified. There have been enough Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Fred Lewis types. It doesn’t work. I don’t think the Red Sox/Yankees have enough dominance that one can argue that is the best way forward. Being in Boston, I’ve watched the team completely implode over the last few weeks, an event tied most certainly to their pursuit of big money free agents and the expectations attached.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 30, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
It’s not the payroll so much as what their payroll shows about their plan for competing.
I think they might actually be better off with a lower payroll. That would force them to follow the Rays/Marlins recipe for competing. They’d have to be ruthlessly unsentimental: no spending half the payroll on three players. No long-term contracts to players in the declining stage of their careers. No huge contracts to relief pitchers.
Arroyo’s contract was a mistake. It will be interesting to see what kind of deal they reach with BP. If he’s looking for big payday and his “last contract,” the Reds shouldn’t be the ones to give it to him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
That's why I typically prefer the NFL.
I realize it’s a totally different sport, but it’s still nice to know that a great player drafted by a team has a decent shot of staying there his whole career.
yep, would the Packers be a suessful franchise in the baseball model?
I know the NFL is different in that it is easier to sell out 8 weekly games over a couple of months (regardless of the market) than 81 games in six months. But throw out the gate sales, if NFL teams had to negotiate their own media contracts like baseball the differences would be similar.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Yeah, the shared TV revenues are absolutely ridiculous.
Even if your team sucks in the NFL, it’s still fun to watch the games because they’re only once a week.
The NFL's system is so skewed against the players that it turns me off
I prefer baseball’s system, which lets teams keep their players for probably the best chunk of their careers and then forces them to get creative.
baseball's system is the worst in all of sports
it’s not even close.
i don’t care if the system benefits the owners or the players. all i care about is that the system benefits the fans.
the nfl’s system does that, baseball’s does not
I think that's somewhat debatable.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Oct 30, 2011 8:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is so awesome watching baseball's best stars go to New York and Boston every winter!
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
to that point, however,
it is pretty awesome to watch teams like that get caught paying Carl Pavano $50 million to pitch in 11 games over several years, or laugh at AJ Burnett, Carl Crawford, etc. when those contracts become derp-worthy.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 30, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
"benefits the fans" is tricky. Fans like different things.
The non-guaranteed contracts in the NFL tick me off. I have no idea who’s going to be on my favorite team from one year to the next, and I can’t get attached to anyone at an individual level.
There’s a neat discussion here, but NFL players get half the money annually and have 40% shorter careers. That’s really messed up, I think.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Agreed
Also, and I know this isn’t the “system’s” fault completely, but I hate how the NFL is, more than anything else, simply about who stays the healthiest.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
that's not true
last year the packers were possibly the least healthy team in football & they still won the super bowl
the two times the Bengals went to the playoffs
were the two times they stayed healthy. There’s a lot more luck than roster construction, I feel.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
They got healthy and hot at the perfect time
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
well, not completely healthy. Nobody in the NFL is ever completely healthy
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
they got hot
they never got healthy.
they even lost woodson & someone else reasonably early in the super bowl.
They had incredible depth, and got healthy enough at the end
I thought they were clearly the best team in the NFC before last year started. They recovered just in time to make that happen. But a lot of times, health and strength of schedule determines who goes to the SB.
the steelers or patriots have been in 7 of the last 10 super bowls
what’s their secret for staying healthy?
having huge fan bases the NFL feels required to catered to?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Oct 31, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
tense agreement (and trolling) besides
It’s tough to get attached to players and the uniforms are ugly. Give me the NCAA any day.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Oct 31, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that MLB's system is probably the worst for fans
at least of the small-budget teams. Not by a lot maybe, but it still is.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
let us see how poeple feel about that when Votto is not wearing a Red's uniform in 2014.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Oct 31, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
if the Reds are smart, they trade him to maximize return
so they don’t get the big zilch when he walks and signs with his next team
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 31, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
They'll disagree only on the magnitude?
because of a recent emotional impetus?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
If the NFL were MLB, Payton Manning would not still be a Colt.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
he and Eli would've swapped jobs by now.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 30, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I know the Reds aren't the Cardinals,
but I do hope jealousy motivates Castellini and Jocketty to do their best to match the Cardinals’ strategy of building a team around Votto…and that doesn’t mean hoping that the people on the team get better. They will waste the good will they gained with Votto if they sit on their hands.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 29, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
for multiple reasons, the famous Swearengen talk was running through my head last night
and the Cardinals were one of them.Things ended quite negative for the Reds, but nothing here is permanently fucked. So, Walt? Stand this like a man, and give some back.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
Sure, but a quarterback's role in football is different from any in baseball.
So when I say “build a team around Votto” I mean it in the sense that the Cards built a team around Pujols—two or three other big bats, a strong rotation, and a bunch of solid role players who have a good upside. I’d say the Reds are halfway to the first two categories and doing well in the third.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 29, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You didn't like when the Colts went to the playoffs 11 times in 12 years?
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
hey man, totally understood re: earlier
honest mistake on my part — i read a lot of different sbn sites during hot-stove for detailed team-specific news and thoughts (and you guys here do a great job, btw) and i was just careless. total brain fart by me, and good call by you (assuming it was you; if not, i direct this to whichever mod) on the erase. cheers.
and i guess if this gets erased too, i understand again. i just feel retarded and want to be a good citizen. :)
Feel free to post here and come back anytime
It just felt like a potentially incendiary comment, even if you posted in error.
No hard feelings.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Bootsy, you're a superstar right?"
"Twinkle, twinkle, babble."
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 29, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
ha, yeah, it was way incendiary
would have deleted myself if i could.
would have deleted myself if i could have. derp.
while i’m here, thoughts on gil? he seems like a guy i’d be irrationally excited about.
by Pegasus on Oct 29, 2011 11:02 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I don't think Gil will be added to the roster
But I like him. Such an interesting story. An infielder turned outfielder who decided it was just too hard to hit. He asked to pitch instead, and they let him.
He always had a great arm. I remember a spring training game where he had been subbed into CF, and won the game by gunning down the runner at the plate from deep center field. It was an amazing throw.
And Marty screwed up, crediting the throw to Chris Dickerson instead.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I enjoyed that
The part where the team has a huge role to fill when the player can’t play anymore and only has unproven rookies or washed up bastards to play the position, and then they have a terrible season.
That’s my problem with it.
Fire Caldwell.
the 2010 mantra lives on to 2011!
The Reds have no money and are talking to no one™
by 'tHan on Oct 30, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Meet the new boss...same as the old boss
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 30, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
won't get fooled again'd
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 30, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeeeeaaaaaah!
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
it's jch with hair!
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 31, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Where to start
1) I have hair.
2) I have a soul, therefore I am not a ginger.
3) I look nothing like that dude.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
How to reply
1. not THAT much hair
2. touche, honky
3. …. but, you look an awful lot like David Cassidy, and I thought he looked an awful lot like David Caruso, but I could be really wrong
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Oct 31, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I should have said I have a better hairline than Caruso
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
oh, and it IS glorious
The ends justify the means
by Highlifeman21 on Nov 1, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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