Red Reposter - Farewell, Mr. Lindner
Somber news in Redsland this morning
As ken noted earlier, Carl Lindner has passed at the age of 92. Lindner owned the team from '99 to '06 and perhaps the most lasting image of his tenure is that of him picking up Ken Griffey Jr at the airport in a Rolls Royce after the big trade. In many ways the polar opposite of his predecessor Marge Schott, Lindner shied away from the public spotlight and was known as a generous man with many philanthropic endeavors. Lindner built a multi-billion dollar empire, including his baseball interests, though he never finished high school. God speed, Mr. Lindner. So it goes.
Ask Hal:
Q Paul Konerko was considered as player/manager of the Chicago White Sox, so what are you thoughts about a team having a player/manager? — John, Springboro
A It’s tough enough to manage, let alone play and manage. Back in the late 1940s and early 1950s, Cleveland Indians shortstop Lou Boudreau was player-manager and did both jobs extremely well. Believe it or not, there have been 221 player/managers in the majors, most of them before the 1930s. Ty Cobb managed and played from 1921-26. The best was center fielder/manager Harry Wright of the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings, baseball’s first pro team. He went 57-0. The last was Pete Rose, who managed from 1984-89, but he quit playing in 1986. Despite some, uh, distractions Rose had a string of second-place finishes. And here is what player/manager Joe Cronin said about being a player/manager: "I used to send myself up to pinch-hit whenever the wind was blowing out."
Q I thought the days of playing players just because they have big salaries were over for the Reds, but clearly not if Bronson Arroyo is destined for next year’s rotation, as every writer projects? — Steve, Indianapolis
A Show me any team that benches one of their top-salaried players. Doesn’t happen. And are you going to toss away a 200-inning guy who usually wins 15-to-17 games after one off year, during which he battled mononucleosis and other nagging aches and pains? And is it his fault he plays in a park about the size of Williamsport? They have to give Arroyo a spot in the rotation — at least to start the season, because acquiring a pitcher of his stature just isn’t going to happen.
I have to agree with Hal here. Although Steve in Indy has a point, I think Bronson should get a shot based on merit instead of salary. Look it: I'm definitely not a BroYo fan, but the fact remains that he's been a useful pitcher for a number of years. This past year stunk somethin' awful fer sher, but you have to hope that it was an outlier instead of a concrete age-related regression. His K/BB rate was similar to years past, as were his GB rate and BABIP. The only real difference was in his HR/FB rate which should stabilize. If by the end of next May he's given up another 15-20 dingers, then you need think about making a change. But he deserves another chance even if he doesn't deserve the money he's making.
In an unfortunately-named piece
Joe Kay illustrates the narrative of the Reds unfortunate season. A poetic Dusty Baker, with Miles on the phono and a toothpick in his mouth, lays it down like this: "If our year's been a road, it's been a foggy road. Waiting for the sun to burn it off, it never did."
Bronson Arroyo is ambivalent about the coming off-season: "This is going to be a strange offseason, I think," Arroyo said. "I don't think anyone in the clubhouse right here has any idea of the moves the front office wants to make. They have a lot on their plate and I don't know what direction they are going in. Are they are going to keep it young and keep the core guys and add a couple of pieces? Or will they make drastic trades and trade some of the prospects to acquire other guys?"
MLBTR rattles off a list of managers and GMs who will work next season on the final year of their contracts
Here's what they said regarding Dusty: "Dusty Baker signed a two-year extension with the Reds last October. If Cincinnati takes the unlikely step of trading Joey Votto and starting a mini-rebuilding phase, Baker may not want to stick around while the club builds itself back into a contender. A Votto deal is a long shot (at least in the short term), however, so barring a poor season for the Reds in 2012, the team will probably pursue another extension with Baker next winter."
Number one, I don't think a trade of Votto (regardless of how unlikely it is) would mean a rebuilding effort. If such a trade were to go down, I would assume that the return would be high-end major-league pitching, not prospects. In fact, the ONLY way I see Votto being traded is if it actually makes the team better for the coming season. But yeah, that's why the likelihood of the deal is so low. There just ain't too many players out there as good as our homeboy.
Regarding Baker's future though, I expect 2012 to play out much the same as 2010 did. If they Reds win the pennant then I think Dusty earns another two-year extension. If they don't then I think Dusty heads back to Baseball Tonight.
When hard-hitting journalism hits, andromache hits back
We all know of the world-famous Adam Dunn '80s-style bobblehead that was given away just days before his being traded to Arizona, but did you know that the Indians had a similar promotion with Shin-Soo Choo the year after? In what is probably the most important thing you will read this minute, andro compares the two. Here's a snippet: "They’re a few other key differences. Adam’s definitely has more of a baseball feel to it, with a bat in his hand, a Reds cap at his feet, and even a wishbone-C reds logo on the back of his jacket, while Choo appears to be standing on a giant game of Simon. I mean, I know it was a thing in the 80s, but I don’t know why you would be standing on it."
BtB is doin' what they do, making interesting graphs of interesting information
This one regards reliever usage patterns and specialization. The entire piece is worth reading, but it gets reposted here mostly because RR favorite Sam LeCure shows up. LeCure was used out of the bullpen to tally more than three outs in 59% of his appearances and recording 4.38 outs per game, making him one of the most prototypical long men in the league this year. Growin' out the 'stache, rollin' in the cash.
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Quote comparison
BP on having just one year left on his deal, per the DDN piece:
“That’s like if you rent a house for a year,” Phillips said. “That’s not going to work. I am very content with them picking up my option, if they do, but this is my career. I want an extension. I want to stay here for the rest of my career.”
Ozzie Guillen on his contract situation with the White Sox:
"Since last year, this was about integrity, it was about loyalty, it was about do they want me here. Let me say it my way: The Sox were saying, ‘Yes, we want to f—- you, but we don’t want to marry you.’ ’’
(B) is the better analogy
because you can rent a house for a year and it, often times, it does work. Whereas Ozzie mentions fucking.
Mgr., Red Reporter
"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 18, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
Nothing wrong with renting!
And hey, a lot of people would have no problem with..ahem…an agreement less honorable than marriage if it means $12 million.
In any case, there should be no marrying in baseball. Unless it’s fans getting married at the ballpark before the game.
Definitely no marrying of middle infielders who are approaching the age they fall off a cliff.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I would let Ozzie Guillen fuck me for $12 million
I don’t know about the entire White Sox though.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Oct 18, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only if you don't like the rough stuff
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I dunno about that
He looks like the kinda fella who gets real into the weepy sex.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 18, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you have him confused with Gordon Beckham
I think the Bama bangs are a dead giveaway for the teary-eyed weepy sex
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I think you guys are thinking way too much about this
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Oct 18, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ozzie Guillen is awesome.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's throw you a party!

Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
by andromache on Oct 18, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Happy Birthday, may your poop be plentiful and pain free
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Happy Birthday
I feel like I should bake you a lovely prune tart.
by poojols on Oct 18, 2011 5:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for memorializing my dumb typo, scrabs.
I mean, I could sift through retrosheet data for hours, looking for trends in pitchouts and stolen base attempts.
Or I could spend 15 minutes writing a fake bobblehead fashion analysis.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
Bobbleheads are more exciting.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong
You could sift through retrosheet data for hours, looking for trends in pitchouts and stolen base attempts OR you could spend 15 minutes writing a fake bobblehead fashion analysis awesomely.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 18, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I wrote most of the burger recaps in under 30 minutes, hammered
Shocking, I know.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
But you did a lot of preliminary research, like driving to a restaurant, and eating a hamburger!
Probably at least a couple hours altogether.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
It's not my fault that I rule
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I blame it on my mama
All three of them.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
If only you could figure out which daddy...
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 18, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Have two of those, too
Never met the seed-sower.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Son?
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 18, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Suddenly, it makes so much sense.....
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
if there's one thing a Rangers/Cardinals WS has taught me...
Its that (cue obcewok) The Reds NEED MORE BATS!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 18, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
They have an organization full of em!
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
I'm in hell
and it’s full of Tony La Russas.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wonder if he can use the 500 bucks he won
… toward a contract extension for Pujols!?
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
by TheC on Oct 18, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just can't bring myself to watch it
I’ve clicked it a half dozen times now, and I just can’t watch it.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 18, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the funniest Farewell Mr.Lindner--type thread I've read all day.
Too soon?
I don't know why my kids call me that. I think I'm a pretty nice mom.
other teams
are getting their rosters into shape for the Rule 5 draft. Outrighting players, etc.
The Reds have made no moves, other than to activate Scott Rolen off the DL.
The Reds are at 39 players on the 40-man, but they have not activated Zack Cozart, and I expect they will before the deadline.
That leaves no room for protecting players newly vulnerable to Rule 5, or signing free agents. Someone’s gotta go…
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
just like the animated show from eddie murphy
it’s time to cancel the PJ
by 'tHan on Oct 18, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Edgar, Valaika, and Burton should be coming off the 40 man.
Willis would also technically be off. I’m assuming they will keep Horst, but you never know about Maloney. I’d doubt they get rid of him, but again you never know.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
those are good guesses
Negron might be outrighted, too. He’s been underwhelming in AAA, and his defense is not very good, either.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I forgot about him being on the 40 man.
I’d bet he is gone.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
who are the other FAs?
Does Hernandez not become an FA until the arbitration situation comes up?
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I also forgot about him.
I’d assume he is a free agent and off the 40 man roster until the ARB decision. But, I’m not sure on that.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
They kinda need depth at SS. OTOH, if they’re going to sign another veteran SS, Janny might be expendable. And it might be better for him if he finds a team that wants him on the big league roster. As a Miguel Cairo type, if not as a starter.
Renteria seems like an obvious one to release. Teh Fay thinks the Reds will punt him, because he has the mobility of a brick these days. I wonder if they’re considering re-signing him, though. If they insist on a veteran SS, they could do worse than Renteria.
Then there’s Hernandez. I think the Reds are seriously thinking of keeping him, and maybe trading Hanigan.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'd be ok with that at the right price
and a modest return for Hanigan.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Oct 18, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You might get a decent little return on Hanigan.
Signed to a cheap contract, good defense, and decent bat.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
First round draft pick, and conditional first round draft pick?
Only if Mike Brown’s doin’ the negotiating!
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 18, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully they get rid of Renteria.
I feel like they weren’t seeing eye to eye from the beginning anyway.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
bricks have mobility
For example, I think about a half-dozen would fly through Jocketty’s window if Renteria was re-signed.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Oct 18, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'd throw one for sure.
On it would be a note that said “Thanks Walt!”
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Oct 19, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Admit it
You secretly enjoy doing this now
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Doing what? Supporting awesome players?
If so, then yes. I love supporting awesome players.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Take a look at the free agent shortstops...
…and you might find that PJ and Edgar are the class of that lot.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 18, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
does this mean we're not signing Jose Reyes?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
because you could get David Price for him!
This rumour brought to you by Cy Schourek Industries.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
the cost of the paper it's printed on*
- Offer not valid for internet-based rumours.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Oct 19, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if they will or not
But judging from what the beat writers are saying, they are thinking about it. And it would explain their refusal to trade Hernandez.
Ramoan’s bat was better than Hanigan’s, and I think the Reds have serious doubts about how well Mez will play next year. I think they have a lot of faith in him long-term, but he wasn’t exactly dazzling in his brief callup, and catchers often struggle to adjust to the big leagues.
It sounds like they want Hernandez to mentor Mesoraco. Plus, it would be hard to replace Hernandez’s production at the plate. With Mez the catcher of the future and Grandal waiting in AAA, they might feel Hanigan is expendable. His skills and his contract make him very tradeable.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't know where you are getting this idea, but I hope you are wrong.
CMM’s line after the AllStar Break was .220/.287/.305. Meso could easily do better than that. I am of the opinion that they want Hanny to mentor the Golem and that is why they signed him to that team friendly deal.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Oct 19, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
CMM accepts arb
Mesoraco traded for Shields.
Roll with Hernanigans til the trade deadline, when CMM is moved for a bullpen arm and Grandal is called up and has a Buster Posey like effect on the Reds, carrying them to a world series.
This rumor brought to you by KMiB Consulting, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Cy Schourek industries.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 10:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
And we'll all just teleport to the playoff games instead of driving our flying cars!
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Oct 19, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Clever of you to pass on all the liability to Cy
by ken on Oct 19, 2011 1:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
eh, Cy drew up the papers!
Limited Liability ftw!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know
if it’s just speculation based on the fact that Walt didn’t trade Hernandez, but it seems like a lot of people think the Reds want to keep Hernandez and trade Hanigan (or Mesoraco?).
Teh Fay said he thinks the Reds are considering keeping Hernandez. Marty said he thought the Reds would keep Hernandez. Mo Egger said the Reds should keep Hernandez to mentor Mesoraco, and trade Hanigan.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I really hope all these offseason rumors is just subterfuge.
Because if not, the Reds are going to be in big trouble next year. This team is not going to do anything unless they start getting creative and taking some risks. Keeping all the old guys around is not how small market teams win.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Oct 19, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
as Arroyo notes up top
it’s a difficult decision.
“Win now” is generally in conflict with “play the young guys.” Unfortunately, the Reds have sort of painted themselves into a corner, with Joey’s short contract setting the schedule.
If you didn’t have to “win now,” you could throw Mesoraco, Cozart, etc. out there and let them figure it out, even if they hit .150.
But as it is…maybe Mez could do better than .220/.287/.305 next year…but he didn’t this year. So the Reds might well be thinking about whether it’s wise to part ways with their best-hitting catcher.
And I wonder if the risks they should be taking are to trade youth for veterans. That’s pretty much what the Brewers did. It got them to the postseason, but not to the WS or the jewelry. Would you want that for the Reds? I don’t think I would. But that’s what makes it a risk.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm not certain that CMM is their best hitting catcher anymore.
He’s not getting any younger. He had a great first half this year, coming off a great 2010 season. His production fell off a cliff in August. I’m afraid we may have witnessed the wheels beginning to come off. I think the odds are good that Hanigan could have a better offensive numbers than Monie next year, and he is clearly the better defender.
I think the Reds are in a situation where playing the young guys will help them win now. Much more so than over-paying for players in their decline phase. They clearly need to make some tough decisions this offseason, and they have precious few dollars to waste if they want to win in the Votto window.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
Exactly
That’s the big mistake: Assuming that a guy who was the best hitting catcher for half of last year will continue to be so at age 36.
That’s pretty damn risky too.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Probably only about $2 million difference
Which isn’t chump change, but if the organization really truly wanted Hernandez, I don’t think they’d balk at that.
I think the bigger issue is that Hernandez is becoming an old man and could very likely be the Reds third best catcher, yet most expensive catcher, in 2012.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Hanigan makes 1.3 million next season (including one third of his signing bonus)
i would imagine ramon will get 5-6 million via arbitration. 4 million minimum.
You could be right.
OTOH, if they wanted to keep him they’d probably work something out that didn’t involve arb, and would probably be cheaper. Like you said, probably around $4 mil.
But the point stands. Why pay Hernandez almost $3 mil more than Hanigan, when Hanigan is quite possibly the better option at this point?
It feels so nice to be back to normal
if the Reds keep CMM it will be the same old shit
and if Walt keeps CMM he should probably go. That type of mentality won’t work on the Red’s payroll, you can’t keep old men past their sell by date, because of what they did do and their veteran presence.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Come on
You can’t possibly think that Mez will OPS less than 600 next year.
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
I wouldn't bet on it, but I also wouldn't say it's completely impossible
Wieters OPS’d .696 last year, his first full year in the bigs. Mez OPSing 100 points less wouldn’t shock me. Again, I do think he has a bright future ahead of him. But I also think catchers in particular often struggle to adjust to the big leagues. Patience is needed, but patience is what we don’t have. I fear if he struggles, Dusty will bench him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
If he struggles, he could play 2-3 days a week
and Hannigan could play 4-5 days a week, that wouldn’t be the end of the world.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Big difference between 700 and 600 OPS
700 for a catcher isn’t horrible, respectable maybe. 600 is bad for any position.
Any rookie can struggle, but Mesoraco will not put up a 600 OPS if he gets a decent amount of playing time. And as ’arian says, Hanigan will get more or less playing time depending on how things go.
yeah
you can’t bench a catcher like a shortstop.
It isn’t like Meso will just disappear.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
RIght.
He OPSed almost .600 this year with a BABIP of .184.
He’ll be fine.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Not everybody can be Renteria.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 21, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll see
It doesn’t seem like Fay breaks stories or has a well placed source in the FO. Rosenthal broke the Arroyo extension, and MBP broke Jay’s.
by ken on Oct 19, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and the spellchecker function on his computer
At least, one can assume it must be broken. You’d think he would have learned how to use it by now.
by pack_fan on Oct 19, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Making fun of his spelling gets him to block you on twitter
Dayman, Fighter of the Nightman, Champion of the Sun
was that the only thing you did on his twitter feed?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Yep.
I think it’s much more likely that they let Hernandez go, and this season just amounted to terrible handling of the situation.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Also, the Espanol.
Particularly helpful as Chapman makes the adjustment to starter.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 19, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
claro que si
I believe that Hanigan and Meso know some Spanish, as do Price and Dusty. But having someone out there who Cueto/Volq/Chapman etc. “feel comfortable” or w/e, it’s worthwhile.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
I think this is often overrated
“keep the ball down” and “strike this motherfucker out” are universally understood.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 19, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I read this, laughed, and instantly concluded that the Reds must sign Samuel L. Jackson as their pitching coach.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Don't you mean Corbin Bernsen?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I really don't know.
It’s been said that the pitcher’s mound is the loneliest place in sports. It probably depends on the person, and I know nothing of their personalities, for better or for worse.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
usually one of the infielders speaks spanish, no big deal.
Yes if all things were equal if the Reds had a choice between a catcher who speaks Spanish or not, get the one who speaks Spanish, especially if they are looking for a $800,000 back up catcher. But when the choice is paying several million dollars for a 36 year old Spanish Speaking catcher who had a terrible second half or paying league minimum for the top MLB ready catching prospect who doesn’t speak Spanish, it is a no brainer.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
we have Miguel Cairo!
He translated for Mez when Chapman was on the mound.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
We could spend less than several million dollars...
…by purchasing Hanigan a smartphone with translation ability.
#curseslessthanCMM
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
by PeteyHendrix on Oct 21, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What I've noticed, since I did battery-combination graphs for half the girls at Aerys is that it is not that common for managers to language-platoon the catchers like that.
To be fair, other teams may not have the young pitching staff, or the right options at catcher. So it may be a reason, but I think that it’s a pretty miniscule reason to keep Hernandez, like, less important than because he is clutch man monie.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
Makes sense.
I just think of the students I’ve had who don’t speak English comfortably yet find themselves in school in the U.S., and how they are probably incredibly smart yet don’t say a thing all semester. And while being a major league pitcher is not the same thing, I wonder how hard it is for a young guy who comes from Cuba and all the lights are on him and his family is hundreds of miles away and every time he walks somebody all the fans turn on him. So I guess I can see the appeal of making the situation as comfortable as possible, though I also realize that Price and Baker can do that too if the catcher doesn’t speak Spanish.
by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 19, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Where does the konerko trade rank on worst all-time reds deals?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Not as bad as I thought
27 WAR post reds compared to 40 for cameron
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
wow, Cameron is that much? He doesn't stand out for me.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I think it mostly has to do with his defense.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 18, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Cammy is one of my all-time faves
Amazing CF with a decent bat and will always be criminally underrated. The fact that some people (it ain’t just obwok as I know I linked to something from Hal in a reposter some time ago) would even consider that the Reds lost the Konerko deal – never mind that it might be among the worst deals all time – is fascinating.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 18, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
the Griffey trade truly makes it impossible.
Would the Sox have taken Casey instead of Konerko? That’s the real won/loss question to ask.
Casey is a lot of people’s favorite Reds. Konerko is nigh-inarguably the better player. 1999 wouldn’t have happened with Konerko instead of Casey. 2006 might have happened with Konerko instead of Casey. THAT’s the fun trade to play historian to.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
the REAL question to ask, however,
is whether the Reds could have pilfered the Zito-esque curve and Brian Austin Green sideburns that was the Dave Williams Experiment from the Pirates for Konerko instead of Casey.
Without the hometown hero, I doubt the ‘Rats surrender such a can’t miss studdabago like the Daver.

Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 18, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Casey had an OPS+ of 132
Konerko had an OPS+ of 116 in 1999.
Both were very good.
But Casey for Cameron, and then not swapping him for Griffey and years of high priced injuries and underproduction would have been the snacks, but hind sight is 20/20.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Oct 19, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike Cameron wasn't terrible, but 400 home runs are 400 home runs
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
When I think Carl Linder, I think Eric Milton.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart
I think you have to give bronson a shot at the rotation to at least see if his new off season regiment does him any good
Individuality: Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.
While I don't think his yacht can hold quite so many floozies
it’s kind of you to give him credit for work he has yet to do!
He fixes the cable?
by Colin Auscapee on Oct 19, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
ha
The Fayplacement has an article called Arrogant Cardinals despised by Reds fans. It quotes everyone from Slyde to BP.
Also Ten reasons to hate the Cardinals.
In the Pujols-Cordero aftermath, Cordero said backup catcher Gerald Laird was the loudest mouth in the St. Louis dugout. Most fans couldn’t pick Gerald Laird out of a lineup, as he rarely is in one.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Brenaman called LaRussa condescending
imagine being on a plane and having a middle seat between sMarty and TLR…
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Oct 19, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I would be pretty psyched.
No seriously, it would be like the best thing ever.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
There are about 200 awful things I want to say
about the positives of sMarty and TLR being on the same plane. A sudden breeze of humanitarian gusto is just barely refraining me from saying them.
"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."
by Cy Schourek on Oct 19, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That they could join the mile high club together?
(Kidding, I like Marty and would never want him to be subjected to that.)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I mean, even if it weren't pretty cool that you were sitting between two famous people.
(And not a weird old man with legs that are too long to fit in the space and who is wearing shorts/a cushy elderly lady, who is dressed and scented like an old, old couch).
Think about how awesome it would be to troll Marty and TLR at the same time when THEY CANNOT ESCAPE.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
I can only just hope
that J.J. Redick, Jamie Kennedy, and Bill O’Reilly are on that plane, too, ifyaknowhuttamean.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I read it as "Growin' out the 'stache, reelin' in the cash." Either way I loved it.
Maybe this guy will play Lecure’s role in “100 Saves, 100 Babes” due out in 2014:

Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
This is awesome

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Oct 19, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
is this where I go to hope the Reds trade Alonso and Sappelt for Victorino?
I hope so, since I just hoped it.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Woah. Not so fast, slugger.
Victorino is a really nice player, but he’s only under control through next season. Also, his .783 OPS is nice in CF, but it’s not all that special in LF.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
this is where my "hunch theory" comes in.
I’ve just got a hunch that Victorino puts up numbers closer to his 2011 ones than to his career ones next season (its a contract year, y’know).
His glove in left gives the Reds the best OF defense out there and makes the lineup just like I like my women: nasty and flexible.
If he’s great and the Reds are great, consider signing him to a longer deal. If they suck, pick up a first rounder since he’d be a type A.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh yeah, i forgot
And win the fuck out of some winning in 2012 in the process…and profit!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, it wouldn't be the worst deal in the world.
My caveat would be that since he’ll make $9.5 mil next season I’d want some money from the Phils to cover that, since that would completely blow the budget for the year and likely preclude trading for a good starter.
Also, my assumption is that the Phillies aren’t at all interested in trading him. They lose Ibanez next year too, and while Dom Brown can replace him, they don’t have anyone who can come in and play CF, so they’d have to go out and buy one. Given the way that team is built, I don’t think you’ll see them trading major pieces from their MLB roster this offseason.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Mayberry plays cf, right?
And my thought process was that they’re tied down to ginormous contracts to hurt Utley, hurt Howard, hurt Oswalt, and Halladay, while Hamels and Rollins are also looking to get paid. Rich as they are, I’m just not sure they’re going to swing extensions for all of them and they may well use him as a piece to get a bit younger (and healthier).
Slim chance, sure, and I totally see your points, but if the front office is resigned to not trading Votto under any circumstances, I’d begin to start equipping the team for a serious run this year. This falls squarely into that methodology.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Except getting a very good starter for Alonso would be much more helpful than getting a 31 year old CFer with one year left on his contract.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
if that starter can be found, sure.
I’d rather have shields, too. But if it takes Yonder to get him, who’s the everyday LF then?
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Heisey, Sappelt, Frazier, someone else.
They’ll be able to find someone who could match or slightly exceed this year’s production. Which is fine if the rotation is dramatically improved.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
If the Reds trade Alonso for someone with one year left on their contract, I'll pee on one the statues at GABP in protest
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
but you, of all people, must be aware
that Alonso’s AAA numbers only translate to a .592 ops at the big league level!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 19, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think we can all agree that if urination were the standard form of protest, this country would be in a lot better shape.
Is there a mod so powerful he can ban himself?
R Kelly would be Malcolm X
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
by DTFH91 on Oct 19, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
#OccupeeGABP
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Oct 19, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Gold
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Set, Spike
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
Somebody page Heeringa
There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.
he's uh.....indisposed at the moment
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
unless that guy who has one year left is a top flight starting pitcher
and Walt is pretty sure he can extend him.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Rape is bad, mkay?
D_Train35
IM GETTIN IT IN TONITE. I dont care anybody says #flocka
by crolfer on Oct 19, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Tonight's Top Story, From Muppet City
“Fozzie Bear has been arrested on accusation of rape. The victim’s eyewitness testimony claims that the perpetrator continually yelled “WOCKA” or something similar as the attack progressed."

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
by jch24 on Oct 19, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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