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Red Reposter - The Incredible Thrilling Exciting Amazing Tremendous Non-Story that is the Joey Votto trade speculation

Chill down, my puppies.  He ain't goin' nowheres.

Matt Klaassen at FanGraphs offers his opinion on the Joey Votto Trade Speculation
I think the most significant bit in this piece is his valuation of Votto's trade value right now. "Put simply, there is probably at least twice the surplus value available with Votto as there was for (Cliff) Lee (when the Mariners traded him to the Rangers), and the Reds should be looking for an appropriate return."  

Klaassen says that is roughly two top-10 prospects and change. I floated an idea yesterday of a deal with the Rays involving Matt Moore and Jeremy Hellickson. If you were the Reds GM and you were willing to trade Votto this winter (this is a big caveat, obvs), is that a reasonable deal? Do you pull the trigger on that? Do the Rays?  

All that said, Walt Jocketty shot down the rumor
"We haven’t talked about it. I wish that people would stop writing it," Jocketty said Monday. "Why would we trade one of the best players in the game? We’re trying to win." I get the sense that Sheldon took some editorial liberties and left out Jocketty's condescending "doooooooiiiiiiiiii!!!!" at the end of that quote.  

I get the rationale behind trading Votto this winter.  If the right deal could be found, it could actually increase the team's chances of winning this year and even the next few years.  But I think that argument is largely based on the false premise that Yonder Alonso is blocked by Votto.  Alonso is not  going to a Gold Glover in LF, but having both his and Votto's bats in the lineup at the same time is not going to be a bad thing.  I think instead of trading Votto, the Reds should look to move some of their numerous position prospects for pitching and keep the lineup intact.

MLBTR takes stock of the Reds arbitration-eligible players
Jose Arredondo, Homer Bailey, Edinson Volquez, Bill Bray, and Nick Masset appear likely to be tendered contracts, while Paul Janish and Jared Burton are iffy. Burton has been plagued by injuries for years, but I could see the Reds non-tendering him and then re-signing him to a minor league deal. He still has talent, after all.

As for Soft-J, Soft-Hands I'm not sure what to do with him. He was brutal at the plate this year when given ample opportunity, posting an embarrassing 38 wRC+. I don't think his true talent level is that bad, but whatever that true talent level is, it's surely not good enough to warrant regular playing time. So the real question is whether or not he's good enough to retain as a bench player.

I'm kinda on the fence about this one. I think his glove is good at SS, as his career UZR 150 is 11.3 in nearly 2000 career innings there. I've long held the belief that he's a back up SS and I think if used properly he could provide a little value. But is that small amount of value worth what he could fetch in arbitration? I think so, at least for this coming season. He made $437k this season, and he can't expect much of a raise over that. I think the Reds could offer him $650-750k and he'd be more than happy to take it.  You also have to take into account that the Reds are pretty sore for middle infield depth.  Janish sure ain't good, but at least he's a warm body.  But if they decide to cut him and look for a back up on the free agent/trade market it would make little difference.

Star-divide

Blog Red Machine has some updates on how the kids are doing in the Arizona Fall League
Nobody has really played all that much yet, but Brad Boxberger has looked pretty good as he's struck out seven and walked only two in 2.1 innings. Add that up. Yeah, that means every out he's collected has been of the K-variety. Dig that Box. Nick Christiani has looked pretty good, too.

Speaking of Boxy, ken mentioned yesterday that he could make the Opening Day roster next season
Here's Redleg Nation Chad's take on it: "He’d look pretty good in the RHP bullpen spot that has been filled by the Carlos Fishers and Jordan Smiths of the world."  

Ask Hal:
Q: During your career, which team entered the playoffs that you thought had no chance but won the World Series? — Alan, Sugarcreek Twp.
A: That’s a slam dunk — the 1990 Cincinnati Reds. They began the season 33-12, but then staggered home 58-59. They beat the Pirates four games to two in the NL Championship Series, but nobody gave them a chance in the World Series against the Mighty Oakland A’s and The Bash Brothers (Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco). I picked the A’s in five. But with their secret weapons of Billy Hatcher and Chris Sabo, the Reds swept the A’s four straight. Some little ol’ lady in Cincinnati bet in Vegas that the Reds would sweep and she won $55,000. If I only had known.


Slyde wrote a book about this!

Q: Does Edinson Volquez get more chances in an attempt to make the trade of Josh Hamilton to get him look good? — Dave, Lexington, Ky.
A: Current Reds GM Walt Jocketty didn’t make that trade, former GM Wayne Krivsky did. So Jocketty has no need to prove anything. What he does know is that Volquez won 17 games and made the All-Star team the first year he was with the Reds. His repertoire is outstanding — when he can get it over the plate. And he’ll have to show his 17-win ability to win a spot in the 2012 season, if he survives the winter without being traded.

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Just ignore that other story of the front page

you’d think I’d have mastered the concept of scheduling after doing it above 5 times a week for a year.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I shoulda done better, too

It’s always a good idea to schedule your post for at least 10 minutes into the future to make sure this kinda thing doesn’t happen.

Oh well. At least we have some content on a day like this.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No harm done

I shoulda put mine in the Norris Hopper.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's it, you're Dunn

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't say I'd be Stephen Jolbert

right out of the gates.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't know you were a Francoeur

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again, we're over-discussing Sabometrics.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's time for us to Bailey out of this conversation.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, we've been on these Rhodes way to long.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

And now I’m going to enjoy this Boxberger. Which is a burger in a box.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't Mez it up.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

We've somehow managed to keep it Rolen.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a Frazier wrong about that..

The Horst is yet to come.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad I didn't plan a proper post on Votto trade rumors

It seems like its even sub-Upton, as I don’t remember Towers pulling back his commitment to listen to offers.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

As a Jays fan, i'm cursing Olney

for a pending winter of ridiculous Votto trade suggestions. Hope you guys don’t catch too heavy a hit from Yankees fan style ‘star for pocket lint’ trade proposals.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Canadians are too damned nice NOT to trade with

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a brit

so your safe for now :D.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

HIS SAFE?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

(just giving you a hrad time, by the way)

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's hrad!

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'll have some instant tea

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

well put

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right on.

The Mrs. and I lived in Battersea for 2 years.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, going to the UK and ending up in Coventry

is probably a close match for going to the US and ending up in Detroit. Not a good ending.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had an Egg McMuffin on the way to work last week

/JustWantsToFitIn

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just Wants to Fit In--The jch24 Story

/doubleentendre’d

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Britain

Jesus man, pay more attention.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Going by how we name things in the US

Britain is a town of 9,500 people in Southearstern Indiana.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

All joking aside

I just don’t see a Jays-Reds trade of any kind happening any time soon. Both teams have above average hitting, desperately need top of the order SP and are looking to contend this coming year by picking up MLB ready talent. Both have farm systems where the main assets are near MLB ready catchers. The only real difference between the two teams is that you guys have a slightly more manageable division to work in, and that we have copious amounts of SP and OF prospects on top of that catcher talent that may or may not be ready late next year. The Jays have talent to trade, but we have nothing you’d really want on the table.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

since we have you on the line

what’s your take on expanded playoffs? I feel like the rules are written just to give the Jays a spitting chance.

"You said 'walks' twice."
"I like walks."

by Cy Schourek on Oct 11, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like the rules are written

to put two more games on national tv every year.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indifferent

A one game wildcard playoff seems a stupid format, the Jays weakness has been an inability to get a solid enough team together, more than a factor of division and lack of chances. We have had for the past decade, a backroom staff and philosophy built on fast to mature college talent, and FA acquisitions (pretty much an A’s clone) devoid of the scouting talent necessary to get away with such an approach. The reality of that is that we’ve just not fielded teams with high enough ceilings, irrespective of how we’ve done developing talent, a perfect season for your average Jays team is probably about 93 wins, based on overall maximum talent level. The backroom construction has been one designed on flawed principals, and it is that that has crippled our team for so long.

The greatest flaws of the JP era, a complete dismantlement of the scouting team and the international development team (especially in latin america), a lack of ability to make trades of any kind, and a lack of talent with high enough ceilings to possibly unearth an ace or hall of famer. We’ve shown an incredible ability to develop #3-#5 quality SP and everyday players, but we’ve not developed a star in almost 10 years now, and that won’t get you to the playoffs. It’ll be the changes in the team philosophy that will get the Jays to the playoffs, not the addition of an extra playoff spot.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

TL:DR version

The jays signed high floor, low ceiling talent for 15 years, they got a .500 team, playoff format won’t change that.

by TtD on Oct 11, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boxy

I think he has a decent shot. But he’s not a lefty. And it seems like Chapman is the major subtraction at this point. Under Baker, the Reds have almost always gone with two lefties, so that favors Horst or Willis.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Here's something I stumbled across that you might wanna add

R.I.P. 2011 Cincinnati Reds

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

This is very astute
Cordero is too costly. He’s done his job well in his time in Cincinnati, solidifying a bullpen that had been in tatters before his arrival, but it’s too much to pay for a closer. Follow the lead of the Rays and Diamondbacks who were able to rebuild bullpens for less than $12 million based on scrap parts. It’s risky, but no more risky (and less expensive) than paying inflated prices for relievers.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

/Jsutin'd

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You dun goofed

There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The most recent comment when I read it was from a Johnu11

Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."

by ChiDa on Oct 11, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was his usual sublime self.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's see.

Railing on the coaching? Check.
Rambling and being largely incoherent? Check.
Insulting others while making vague references? Check.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been pretty vocal supporting a Votto trade, so I'll also say that keeping Alonso in LF and Votto at 1B is also a great solution

But the problem then is, if you keep Mesoraco behind the plate, that doesn’t leave very many trade pieces to get a great arm.

I doubt Todd Frazier and/or END bring back that great a pitcher. Maybe if you add Grandal to them, plus a promising youngster, but that is a very specific package requiring a very specific team.

I guess what I’m saying is that Walt is going to have to be very creative/flexible to turn surplus prospects into a very good pitcher, whereas if Votto is the primary piece, the offers would probably be flowing in and he can pick and choose. Not that the latter is better, just probably easier.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's fairly obvious that Grandal is the primo trade chip this winter

and he’s a very good prospect that could, with a few secondary pieces, fetch a top-o-the-rotation starter.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends on the team, though.

If we want to deal with the Rays, they would likely ask for MLB-ready bats (i.e. Alonso). A team that would trade for Grandal would be making a win later move, as he is at least another year away. Who could be pried away from a team in rebuild mode? Would Pineda for Grandal/others be viable?

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer here

But I’m not so sure that a guy with 190 PA above A ball and two middle of the road prospects is going to get you an ace.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about Stubbs or Heisey?

I like both, but to my mind neither is irreplaceable. Perhaps Grandal and Stubbs would appeal to the Rays.

I think it’s myopic to think the Reds -Votto +Top of the Rotation Starter are better than Reds +Votto +Good 2 or 3 starter.

by Cuetotally Amazing on Oct 11, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You might be selling Grandal in particular

and prospects in general, short. Grandal is a switch-hitting catcher who just OPS’d .900+ in his first full minor league season. He’ll start next season in AAA. If you look at the recent trade packages that have netted good pitching (Greinke, Marcum, the Lee deals) a Grandal + package stacks up pretty nicely with them.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Grandal is easily a top 50 prospect, maybe top 30.

Guys like that are regularly the centerpiece for major trades. The question is what kind of secondary players it would take to get a top starter. I’m guessing a Heisey type and then a young high upside guy might do it. I’d put Hamilton in that deal if that’s what it took.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Volquez could be interesting

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true.

Going on past trade histories, the Reds have what it takes to get a top of the rotation guy.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll buy you a new seat for your BMX if you do

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't need one

My step-mom said I’m getting one for Christmas this year.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

She ain't lyin'

I already snooped in the garage and found it in her Christmas present hiding place.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Votto is to Alonso as Mesoraco is to Grandal

For those listening on Votto, why not Mesoraco? He’s still unproven and his value is going up, it’s highest yet. If he nets a TOR, I’m all over it.

Never say "TRADE VOTTO"

by mdccclxix on Oct 11, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Votto is a Red for 2 more years max, and will cost $25 million

Mesoraco is a Red for at least 6 more years and will cost a total of about $1.5 million for the first 3 of those.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but if you want to talk about someone unproved whose stock is going up

might as well go with the less touted catcher who is further away from the majors.

I’m not saying Mes is untouchable necessarily, but comparing him to Votto is apples to oranges.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true, if it becomes apparent that either prospect can net a TOR, trade either one.

Right now, I’m still itching to see what the switch hitting catcher can do. If he can hit 5th or 6th someday that would rule.

The performance gap between Votto and Alonso is wider than Mez to Yas, however I think the perception gap is about equal in terms of replacement value, which would mean that Yas is a bit too much of an afterthought.

Never say "TRADE VOTTO"

by mdccclxix on Oct 11, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced that the gap is that much greater from Votto to Alonso

I mean, it might be, but we just don’t have any idea what either catcher will do in the bigs yet.

It’s very possible that Mes is a .900 OPS guy. Or he’s a .750 guy. We just don’t know yet.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is setting up nicely for NEXT winter

One of Mesoraco or Grandal will be traded. But I don’t think that move is coming without one of them spending a season in the Bigs. But one of them is going to net something good.

by ben nevis on Oct 11, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree the offers would be flooding in

but I think very few of them would fit with the Reds’ plans of winning next season. And the universe of trading partners is limited to teams trying to win now who want a 1B upgrade (but are not in the NL Central).

The possibility of an overeager GM or a perfect storm, 3-team trade should definitely mean the phone lines are open – even if Jocketty says they’re not – but I just don’t like the chances of success.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also agree that it's going to be next to impossible for this team to get an MLB-ready, ace caliber pitcher

if they leave Votto, Alonso, Chapman or Mesoraco untouched. And if Chapman is part of the plan for the rotation, they virtually have to include one of those bats. Or else start getting weird with a package that sent out Stubbs-Grandal-Frazier-Francisco that either a team would have to come requesting or would be part of a multi-team deal.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Higher walk rate, lower shoulder injury rate?

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

And lower salary.

I’m sold!

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

fuck pitching

lets get Mike Stanton

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Between Votto, Bruce, & Francisco someone's going to win a truck soon

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was nearly impossible for a LH'er to hit the sign.

Stanton came close this year on a Sunday game. It was one of the most impressive shots I’ve ever seen in person.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

They moved it, no?

There’s a sign between the smokestacks. “Easily reachable” for those guys.

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though if it's Francisco

someone’s going to be winning an insurance claim.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

tried that once already

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is one weird delivery

There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

now that you mention it, it is weird

it seems like his arm is way behind the rest of his body.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not yet

His weight is still on his back foot and his hips are still closed. The arm should come forward with his weight.

(Sorry….. been trying to emphasize this to my son a lot.)

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Oct 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

(it is okay)

i probably didn’t pitch after 11 year old little league for a reason.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The wierd thing is his glove hand

it’s pointing off in an odd direction, when normally it points to the plate until the hips start to turn and it should come back into the body.

He’s pointing at the second level seats between home and 3rd.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The really weird thing

…. is all the blue pubic hair running down the inside of his right leg.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Oct 11, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

That's pretty standard.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only if they throw in the circus home run celebration thingamajig

"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow

by jch24 on Oct 11, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have pretty high standards then

Last 2 years he’s had an ERA in the mid 3’s, a FIP in the low 3’s, and he has almost touched 200 IP each year.

Both his K/9 and BB/9 are trending in the right direction, and he’ll only be 28. The only downsides are that he’s a bit of a FB pitcher, and 2012 is his last arb year. But he’s also almost definitely going to be a type A guy, so if they can’t re-sign him, they’d get draft picks to compensate for whoever they give up to get him.

I agree there could be better choices, but he’d be a pretty damn good choice too.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's coming off a 106 ERA+ year in 196 innings

He’s a fine pitcher with very good peripherals. Solidly above-average. Just not the ace I’d like to see the team get.

But if he doesn’t cost any of our big chips, I’d be happy to have him.

by ken on Oct 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like your think

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shields, Sanchez, Cueto, Leake, Arroyo to open the season.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do we torture ourselves this way?

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember HAVOC from a few years ago?

That rotation would be CLASS. Wonder what Tony LaRussa’d have to say about that?

by the finest muffins on Oct 11, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or ASSCLown

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

this made me giggle

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 13, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously don't post that Marlins GIF

aside from it being potentially seizure-inducing, it’s also 6.8MB.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

There doesn't seem to be a way to ban an image

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

It seems fitting for that stadium, like its host city, to have delightfully tacky elements. But it might just end up being a sweltering acid flashback.

Mgr., Red Reporter

"Every office I've been in, there has been a guy with weird scars that he needs to explain to you—'it was one of those old Xerox machines, with a lot of razors in it'... or a pale person with a novel of supernatural erotica that keeps getting left on the printer. Major League lineups need those guys, too." - David Roth

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Oct 11, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much talent does Burton really have left?

In 2008 his average fastball was 92.2 MPH in 2009 it was 90.5, and in sss’s since it has been 90.0 and 90.7.

Burton was awesome in the second half of 2007 and the first half of 2008. Since then he has been injured, ineffective, and sick. It is a shame, but I don’t think Burton has anything left to offer other than what he did over parts of 2 big league seasons 4 years ago.

If the Reds can non-tender and sign him, I would go for it on the off chance that he can get himself back together, but it isn’t worth half a million dollars to find out.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

I doubt too many teams would be willing to offer him more than a minor leage deal at this point. Might as well see if they can get him to sign one with them rather than overpaying for him to be rehabbing half the year again.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'd be the first one since Rose, right?

There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the big deal?

We’ve got our player/manager!

Never say "TRADE VOTTO"

by mdccclxix on Oct 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLBTR commenter offers this suggestion
CIN gets
SP James Shields (1 yr/$4.5M with 3 club options)
SS Hak-Ju Lee
SP Alexander Colome

TB gets
1B Joey freakin’ Votto

That would make me think hard about pulling the trigger and trading Votto.

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Chist, the Rays would never lose if they had Votto

There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Arredondo. They were shining there for you and me, for liberty, Arredondo.

by DTFH91 on Oct 11, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

No thanks

Also, that’s wrong info on Shields. His three club options start this next year.

by ken on Oct 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would do that trade.

3 years of Shields (at 7, 9, and 12 mil) + Colome + Lee > 2 yrs. of Votto for the Reds’ needs. The money is pretty much a wash, and is a reasonable salary for the performance.

Rotation of Cueto, Shields, Kuroda (FA), Chapman, and Leake sounds wonderful to me and fits within our budget if we let CoCo go and pick up BP’s option.

Pen: Bray, Willis (FA), Masset, Ondrusek, LeCure, Arredondo. I’d have Bray/LeCure in a closer tandem. Arroyo replaces whomever is injured.

Lineup:

2B Phillips
SS Cozart
1B Alonso
3B Rolen/END
RF Bruce
CF Heisey/Stubbs
LF Heisey/END
C Mezigan

We’d have to trade some of our other excess pieces (Heisey or Stubbs, END, Frazier, Grandal, Billy Hamilton, Sappelt, Volquez, Bailey, Wood) for more offense at 3B and LF. But I think there is enough prospect fodder to make that happen.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I like him and all, but he’s said publicly that he wants to stay out west. He’ll be a Dodger again.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 11, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It also has a disproportionately high number of multinational corporations

with plenty of white collar foreigners who seem to do just fine. If the Reds can’t bring in talent because they’re perceived as too backwater, they need to try harder at marketing themselves.

With regards to Kuroda, I think a lot depends on whether his family is with him in the States. If not, I’d imagine he wants to stay on out West. From this article, it sounds like Kuroda doesn’t expect to return to the Dodgers.

by ken on Oct 11, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This was a half joke

but I am guessing their probably is more for a Japanese immigrant on the West Cost, and in first Tier Cities like Chicago and NYC, than in Cincinnati.

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only mention him because I think he is the best fit.

Is there a different free agent SP I should be jerking off to?

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 12, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mmm...

Alex Cobb would be a lot better than Alex Colome. Also don’t expect Hak-Ju Lee to become anything. This deal is very enticing though. I wouldn’t do it, but it’s REALLY close.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Oct 11, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm kind of surprised

MLB Trade Rumors thinks Janish will get $800,000 from the Reds. I guess it’s pocket change for them, but still. The roster math is brutal, and barring injury, Janish is probably going to be starting in Louisville next year. That being the case, he should probably be happy to get any kind of a big league contract.

I do think the Reds will probably both keep Janish and sign a free agent backup SS. As last year proved, they need depth, and they don’t have it.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 11, 2011 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

isn't there a AAAA shortstop like Janish floating around somewhere who will take a minor league deal

because he likes getting paid to go to the ballpark?

"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone

by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, it looks like Edgar and Janish are two of the most desirable SSs available.

Unless we wanna go wild and sign some depth from the Mexican League, like 31-year-old Jose Castillo. Ugh.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

His OPS was .940 last year!

Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.

by -ManBearPig on Oct 11, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is a beautiful photo.

I’d use it as my desktop background, but apparently 300px wide passes as “extra large” on SB Nation.

As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.

by Ram27 on Oct 11, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

It seems like this winter is not the best time to trade Votto

Fielder and PooHoles are available for teams that can pay a lot of money. They can do that and not give up TOR pitchers or MLB-ready future stars. Seems like a better way to go. The Reds might do better to wait for a contender to lose their 1B to injury next summer.

by poojols on Oct 11, 2011 5:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I disagree

I think Votto would be a nice alternative. Yes you have to give up talent to get him, but you also get him for 2 years for about the same money as it will take to get Fielder/Pujols for 1 year. Plus, you don’t have to commit to 6-8 years and to paying for a players twilight years.

It feels so nice to be back to normal

by nycredsfan on Oct 11, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade Votto now

He will in no way stay in Cinti..he’ll be gone ASAP
Get Rolen to retire
PJ is keepable as a backup – no one will want him anyway.
Burton – goes
Masset – Trade him
RayMoan should have already been dealt
Hanigan ain’t bad as the lesser half of a two catcher platoon.
Good-By Bronson

Shake it the fuck up Walt, you’ve got Devo Mescaline, Fiasco, Yonder, Dave Sappelt, TODD FRAZIER, Androidis in the Rotation…don’t be a pussywussy

I would like to see something like this given a chance:

BP – 2B
Cozart – SS
Alonso – 1B
Bruce – RF
Hi-Z – LF (or Frazier if Stubbs falters)
Fiasco -3B (Frazier if Fiasco falters)
Stumps CF (Hi-Z if Stubbs falters)
Mescalino – C

You’ve got:
Sappelt
Hanigan
Janish
Frazier (unless Stubbs falters)
Cairo or EdRent

on the bench…
Why spend Votto on anything other than improving the starting and BP pitching.
PITCHING WINS BASEBALL GAMES

Scott Roland should retire tomorrow.

by Madville on Oct 12, 2011 12:59 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Nun of these are good ideas.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz. ~Humphrey Bogart

by PeteyHendrix on Oct 12, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

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