Red Reposter - Is it Rocktober already?
by ken on Oct 10, 2011 9:20 AM EDT
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Print- Hope you've all caught postseason fever. While it's unfortunate that the Reds are not participating in the NL Central Slapfight, the playoffs have paid a special tribute to the Reds' 2011 season by allowing the low-scoring team in each LDS advance to the final four. St. Pythagoras is breaking right triangles over his knee in disgust. The playoffs as a crapshoot - particularly in the Wild Card era - is at odds with the game's history and marathon regular season, Joe Posnanski writes: "Baseball is in a weird place because it is different from every other sport. Only baseball has teams play 162 regular season games.... By playing a season that long, baseball seems to be saying that the way to find the best team is through the long season, the day-to-day, the ability to overcome injuries, adversity, slumps, heat waves and all that. And for many, many years that was precisely the case.... But ever since the addition of the wild card, the postseason has become the dominant story."
- Buster Olney tweeted over the weekend that the Reds will listen to offers for Votto
Rival executives are "getting signals that the Reds won't shop Joey Votto -- but that they are fully prepared to listen to offers," according to a grown man called Buster. Could the Marlins be one of the suitors? Sounds crazy, but that doesn't stop the Palm Beach Post from speculating. The Marlins are seeking a new team representative as it prepares to show off a new stadium and an amazing technicolor logo. So the long-rumored Hanley deal could finally be in the works - although after this season (95 OPS+), I'm not so sure that's a good idea. HT to MLBTR for the links. - Boxberger on the Reds' radar for a big league bullpen spot
Brad Boxberger has has little experience above AA, but with a solid 2011 and great stuff, Fay believes that Boxberger is a decent bet to make the Reds out of spring training. Jocketty isn't ruling it out: "He could probably use some more time at Triple-A. But he'll be invited to camp, and he might surprise us." - The birth of a rumor - Yonder to the Phillies
Ryan Howard ruptured his Achilles on the final play of the Phillies' disappointing season, which jeopardizes his and the Phillies' 2012 season. I haven't yet seen any speculation on what the Phillies might do, so I'm gonna get the ball rolling: the Phillies are going to make a strong push for Yonder Alonso, possibly involving a third team. Philadelphia certainly has the talent to compete next year but is running out of time with its aging roster. As they're now a pitching-heavy team, they can't afford the loss of Howard's bat for any significant duration. But what should the Reds get in return? The Phillies' depth is its rotation. Halladay and Lee are out of the question, and I'm not particularly interested in Oswalt or Blanton. Vance Worley had a terrific rookie year but I'm not convinced that it's for real, given his fairly pedestrian minor league numbers. That leaves Cole Hamels, an ace on most teams. He has just one arbitration year remaining, so he'd likely be a type A rental. He also just had a procedure to remove "loose bodies" in his elbow and will have hernia surgery this week. But if Dr. K gives the green light, I'd do it.
- Blog Red Machine tries to answer "just how fast is Billy Hamilton?"
Billy Hamilton had a .220 BABIP on balls fielded by infielders this year, a pretty amazing rate. As a point of reference, Drew Stubbs was at .161, and nobody in the bigs reached .200. Of course, the fielders are better in the majors versus the Midwest League, but there's no reason to doubt that Hamilton's speed will be a top flight asset if he reaches the majors. - BtB previews this winter's strong Shortstop market
The Reds are probably not going to shell out for a starter, but they are in the market for a veteran backup as they were last winter. Ramon Santiago could be a good fit. With an OPS+ in the 80s in each of the past three seasons, he's not a strong hitter but you can do (and we have done) worse as a backup infielder. He's also a versatile gloveman, with solid numbers at both short and second and some experience at third. As he's getting all this playoff experience on Detroit's dime, which should pay dividends for the Reds next season. - So what are your W10K plans?
Only five franchises are currently in the 10,000 win club. The Reds, with 9,994 wins, look to join the fraternity in early April 2012 (they should've made it this season, of course - grumble, grumble). The tally starts in 1882, when the Reds joined the American Association. The Reds were original members of the National League but were expelled after the 1880 season for, in part, refusing to ban beer during games. - The Reds' home attendance was up this year,
but more curiously, the team was also the second biggest road draw of 2011. Only the fabled Yankees finished ahead of the Reds' 33,120 average road attendance. At home, the Reds drew 27,328 per game, 10th in the NL but also representing the 4th best raw attendance increase in the league. - For Ben Jukich, life is good
As you might know, former Reds farmhand Ben Jukich pitched in Korea this year for the LG Twins. As 'mache discusses, it was a good year: 10 wins, a 3.60 ERA and 150 strikeouts in 187 innings, and it looks like he recently finalized a 2012 deal with them. He and his wife also welcomed a mini-Jukich into the world this year. With Colby Lewis in the rotation for one of the AL finalists, it's worth keeping tabs on pitchers on the other side of the Pacific in case they enjoy a breakout. - The Yu Darvish winter hype machine has commenced
With all the talk about getting a bona fide ace, one option could be Japan's Yu Darvish. Sure it's a longshot, but so was the Reds' last major international pitching signee. ESPN (Insider) takes a quick gander at Darvish, the next great NPB hope: Thanks to his two deadly slider varieties plus a fastball that he can dial up to 97 mph, many insiders consider the 25-year-old to be the best pitching prospect ever to come out of Japan. "He's going to be a top-of-the-rotation starter," says an MLB scout. "I see no risk with him." Just perhaps a bit overstated, particularly after Daisuke's last few years. Though I think Darvish (whose parents met in Florida) will have an easier cultural adjustment to the States which will help his on-field performance.
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Well, they probablt shouldn't trade Yonder AND Joey
On the road attendance thing: Camden Yards was sold out twice all year, Opening Day and the Friday game of the Reds series.
by poojols on Oct 10, 2011 9:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
The Reds have no choice but to get Yu Darvish
They need to show the fans they are serious about winning, and Darvish is a game changer at the top of the staff.
GET IT DONE WALT!
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Sure, all they have to do is DFA
the entire team to meet the opening bid.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Oct 10, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be loathe to trade anything with the Phillies since all trades are supposed to be win-win and I can only hope for win-loseloseloseloselose for the Phillies.
That said, Phillies boot Rollins, sign Reyes, hope for an increase from Utley and perhaps try to upgrade Ibanez with Brown.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
The Phils have Howard locked up for 6 more seasons.
I seriously doubt they’d want to trade for a young 1B only prospect with team control. If anything, they’ll go after a good player with an expiring contract.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
This is probably true, plus I doubt they would give up Hamels for him.
They just wouldn’t break up that pitching staff.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, i think there's a good chance one of their good pitchers is traded
They need offense and they know it. I just don’t think it’ll be for a guy like Alonso.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I guess it is just something I wouldn't do.
I wouldn’t break up that rotation. But, they might think Worley is for real. I don’t think so.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
My thought is they either move Yonder to LF after Howard returns
Or flip him after he’s OPS’d .900 for half a year.
The Phillies will be desperate to do something after their second straight disappointing finish. They don’t have anyone in their system who could approach average production for a 1B. And as you imply above their offense is no longer good enough to withstand a prolonged departure from one of their big guns.
So what they do is the question. I don’t know who’s available on an expiring deal, and I agree that probably makes more sense. But Amaro is nothing if not creative. Assuming that Howard is out for half of 2012, I think they could play Alonso at 1B in the first half and then move him to LF (Ibanez’s deal is now over), and they can work out a time share among Pence, Brown and Alonso in the corners. Or they can try to flip one of the three at the deadline.
I don't really see the Phillies getting Alonos, and it is for one reason.
They would have to give up something big to get him. They would be acting from a desperate stand point. The Reds would be expecting a big piece in return. I don’t think the Phillies would be looking to do that.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Living in Philly, my sense is that the team is desperate
I could certainly be wrong. The team might stand pat more or less, and do something like start John Mayberry at 1B for the first few months. Or maybe Howard rehabs quickly. But the Phillies’ offense really cooled off during the end of the year (they lost eight straight in late September), and then got shut down again the playoffs. That organization has a lot of money on the books for the next several years (esp. if they re-sign Rollins) and realizes they need to go all-in while their core is still productive.
6 more seasons?
dang, i thought he was a free agent after next season.
he must have signed the longest contract of all time
They extended him last offseason I think
He’s going to be making close to ARod money over the next 6 years.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah, my personal vote for worst contract in baseball
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
cough...Zito...
cough, cough.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Both of those run out well before Howard's does
Zito: 3 years $57 million left
Wells: 3 years $63 million left
Howard: 6 years $138 million left.
Wells is bad (real bad, Reagins-got-rightfully-fired-and-shoulda-gotten-worse-than-that bad), but Howard’s is for more more than double the price and years. Now that the Zito deal is in it’s twilight, it doesn’t really stack up as one of the worst current deals.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
He pitches in one of the 3 most pitcher friendly parks in baseball
for 20 million a year, and they’re going to make him a reliever.
At least Howard puts up 30/100 a year still. If he’s being paid to pinch-hit, then it’s as bad.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a lot of ways to look at it
if I had to pick one contract my team had to pick up out of those three with all it’s repercussions, I’m picking Zito. Howard is going to miss year one of that contract, so you can make it 5/138 at this point.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
They extended him in April of 2010
with a deal that doesn’t start until 2012. And the details ain’t pretty.
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They are pretty for everyone else.
I love the deal for the Phillies!
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i see that slowly everyone is warming up to the idea of trading votto
sooner or later everyone comes around to ’tHan’s way of thinking!
i said it was in the Reds interests to trade Votto in December of 2010
You aren’t the only one who has been on this bandwagon for a while…
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
ganja night vs non ganja night logic?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 2:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I love the extras (from Cots)
5 years/$125M (2012-16), plus 2017 option
signed extension with Philadelphia 4/26/10
12:$20M, 13:$20M, 14:$25M, 15:$25M, 16:$25M, 17:$23M club option ($10M buyout)
award bonuses: $25,000 for All Star. $0.1M for MVP ($75,000 for second in vote, $50,000 for third)
perks: right to purchase 8 season tickets for Philadelphia home games
most favored nation no-trade protection (excluding contracts later acquired through trade or assignment)
first of all, his option has a $10M buyout???? How bad would a player have to suck for a team to pay him $10M NOT to play?
Secondly, $25k for AS appearance? Is that so he can charter a flight? Seriously, that money doesn’t even pay for his gold plated luggage.
Lastly, he had to negotiate for the right to buy 8 season tickets? Man, tickets must be hard to come by in Philly.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I see the buyout as deferred money of sorts
If the option isn’t picked up, it’s essentially a 5/125 deal, or $25 a year. He’s “only” making $20 mil in ’12-13, so the $10 million buyout is to make up for that. If they pick up the option, he gets the joy of being paid $23 million as a 37 year old.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
His agent must be incredibly shrewd
Howard won his Super 2 hearing and set a new precedent. Then he got the remaining three arb years bought out at market rate without sacrificing his FA years. And then, he got extended two years before hitting the market, again without seeming to sacrifice any dollars.
But his AS bonus did go down, from $50k to $25k. So I take it all back.
Good god that's a terrible contract
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I love it.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
you shouldn't
votto is much better than Howard, so the market has been set.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I don't plan on Votto being a Red in two years.
Let someone else pay for him.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate this logic
when every other team in MLB realizes a contract is absolute garbage, it doesn’t “set a market.”
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
I don't think anyone is banking on resigning Votto.
It just isn’t something a team with our payroll can do.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, the Buster/Votto rumor is interesting
Because it could just be a lot of conjecture and speculation (where’s our buddy johnu when we need him?) but it also just makes a lot of sense.
Another reason this could be a great time to trade Votto is the 1B FA circus that is going to be this offseason. If Fielder and Pujols are offered silly money (which they will be), Votto could look really good as a much cheaper, better option, and one whom you aren’t locked into for 6-8 years.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think Walt might know what he is doing.
By just making Votto supposedly available you could see a team get very desperate and over pay. I think you could see the Marlins over pay regardless.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
It's hard to overpay for Votto
Or I should say that it’s hard to imagine someone overpaying for Votto because that would mean they would be giving up A LOT. His return should be very high even if someone underpays for him. If it’s not, then the Reds aren’t serious enough about competing.
And if Votto is dealt, I suspect Brandon Phillips will get that contract he longs for.
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I see what you are saying, and I should change the way I said that.
I think we could see a team give up way more than we could have thought.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
This is my fear too. Not the underpaying part,
but a Votto trade meaning a BP extension.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Hey, did you ever chime in on the Pineda/Votto swap that was floated awhile back?
Curious for your thoughts on that.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
No to that swap straight up.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't talking to you, plebe
He was talking to the Omnipotent King Slyder! :)
(Actually I’m interested in hearing Slyde’s take as well, as long as he agrees with me.)
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I know... but the trade is a bad idea!
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven't chimed
To be honest, the only time I ever saw Pineda pitch was in the ASG, so I don’t know a lot about him outside of what I see in the numbers. Love the Ks and BB-rate. Looks like he has good velocity too. I’m concerned about the park change given that he’s got very low GB numbers. It’s not just the HR either. He only gave up 3 doubles at home (vs 21 on the road) this year. Safeco suppresses doubles while GABP boosts them ever so slightly.
Yes, he’s 23 (or he’ll be 23), and it’s probably a smart move long-term, but I’m ready to win now. If they trade Votto, I really hope it’s not to win 2 years from now. Pineda could be a very good pitcher next year, or he could regress to a more balanced BABIP (.261 in ’11), combined with a park change that could put him in a 4.50 ERA bracket.
I’m not saying no outright, but I wouldn’t do the deal straight up, and I’m not sure Seattle would add another player that would satisfy me.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Sorry, I just don't lust after 23-year-olds like I used to.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Lucky for me I'm 34
Come get you some!
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
In all honesty
the real issue for me is that I have to be convinced that any deal that the Reds make for Votto means that the acquired players + Alonso at 1B > Votto + Alonso in LF. That is not the case for Pineda, in my opinion. You’ve got the best hitter in the NL. It takes a lot for me to want to give that up.
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I get that
But you also have to take into account the fact that Votto is probably not re-upping in two years. Pineda now beats the hell out of two first round picks in the 2014 draft.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Winning 2 championships beats the hell out of me caring what Votto does in 2014.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Pitching Pitching Pitching Pitching Pitching
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
best hitter in NL, best hitter in NL, best hitter in NL
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
This team isn't advancing past the 1st round
Until we get some pitching, this team isn’t winning anything. I’d trade Votto for top pitching.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
The question is whether Pineda counts as "top pitching"
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Would the Rays deal Hellickson and Moore
for Votto? Would you take that deal?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 10, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Wooooo
That is an incredibly good start. But, I don’t think the Rays would do it.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, "good start"
Someone would end up in the ER with a coughing fit induced asthma attack if the Reds asked for Hellickson and Moore and offered Votto.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
slyde thinks the reds are going to get 2 championships with votto the next two years
sounds to me like he’s begging for an avatar bet!
Trade votto to Theo Epstein when he signs with the cubbies
They’re gonna get him eventually anyways!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
I'm kind of over avatar bets
It got old, winning all the time.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
or backing out when it looks like you might lose
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by Slyde on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pardon?
What am I backing out of exactly?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
2009 - Cueto ERA vs Volquez ERA
Funny thing is, you would’ve won too.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
That was nullified due to some IP threshhold or something, right?
How is that backing out on my part?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I want to say it was agreed upon later, but finding it via search would be a bitch
I’ll see if I can though.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
hhhmmmm
I found this comment from May.
Now search is being mean to me for some reason.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Just for you, kid
I’m nothing, if not a man of honor.
Sadly, obc2 would’ve garnered top honors if that bet had actually happened. Thank god that asshole’s not here anymore.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
In reality
my goal was only to mock you for choosing Volquez in a bet over Cueto. So, mock mock mock!
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
it was not a banner year for preseason predictions
I was bullish on both badroyo and edinson.
And I even acknowledged to creds that soft j had a decent to good 2009.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 2:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
nicely done!
I should praise you for a month in my sig anyway, just for fun.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
that thread
just makes me wish Fat Vegas Alan was still around.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We are still going to need pitching to get it done.
I’m all about going all for it, even though the last year of Votto’s deal is very hefty. I don’t even know if the team can afford that year, especially if they want to win.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
But Votto's production right now most likely beats the hell out of Pineda's over the next 2 years
And that’s the point. Draft picks are fine, but whoever comes back for Votto better be damn good.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
My sources tell me Joey Votto is 100 % gone after two years
It’s not likely, not possible, it’s a done deal.
Not exactly pulling a Carson Palmer, but the reds know the sand is pouring through the hourglass.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Let me splain it to you!
Votto isn’t just eligible for FA in two years, it’s a foregone conclusion he will sign elsewhere. Therefore, that information significantly impacts how the ball club will proceed.
Two draft picks or a trade, tis one or the other. I’d doubt either draft pick would net a prospect like Pineda.
The reds ain’t winning a WS the next two years with votto, not with the holes in the roster. I think they will be very receptive to trade offers.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
show your work
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
by -ManBearPig on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Baloney
All it takes to win the WS is getting to the playoffs. After that, it’s just a few good breaks or a couple of hot players for a month. The team has holes, but trading Votto does automagically fix those holes, especially since it creates an even bigger hole by his absence.
I’m not opposed to trading Votto. In fact, I’d gladly do it for the right return. However, if you’re always worried about losing a player 2 years from now, you’re never gonna have the balls to do what it takes to win right now. The Reds have enough of a core to win in 2012 without trading their best player. I’d much rather play for a championship now than shit the bed because I’m afraid that I’m only going to get 2 draft picks for Votto two years from now.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Oct 10, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
But this is a rare case
.. where you have a really quality player waiting to take his place. Alonso may never be the same hitter as Votto, but I bet he can be a top-tier 1B in the next couple of years. If we didn’t have a player of that caliber waiting in the wings, then I"d agree with you.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I think most on RR overestimate how good the Reds are
winning ain’t right around the corner.
The bullpen is a mess. The rotation lacks 200 ip arms. C and SS seem to be improvements. LF is huge hole. 3b is a question mark.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
How is the bullpen a mess?
The only thing really wrong with the pen this year was overuse. LeCure, Bray, Lurch, ’Dondo, and to a lesser extent Masset were solid this year. They were completely wrecked from all the Badroyo and Bad Wagon starts throughout the season.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
the bullpen isn't a mess
but it is a question mark.
The Reds need to add an arm or two down there, hopefully Boxberger is ready for prime time.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
The injuries to Cueto and Bailey
certainly didn’t help matters.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
which made bad LeCure possible in the rotation
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
He isn't waiting "in the wings" though
He’s playing LF. Why not keep both?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 10, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh goody
we get to wait a couple more years for a player to develop. Just like we have for the last 10 years.
I’m not saying the Reds should stand pat and hope for the best. There’s work to be done, but if your motivation for trading Votto is that he’s not going to be here 2 years from now, it just seems like a never-ending cycle of wait til next year then.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
This
when you are a small/medium market team with a window, you gotta take it. I would be okay with the Reds going for broke, trading the farm, and getting what they need to win now, and start rebuilding in 2014.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Which is why I think it is a better idea to start the year with Votto on the team.
If it is necessary to trade him do it next offseason when his salary is even higher. It will mean we will get less, but it will still be a higher return than 2 draft picks. We can even trade him at the deadline if this next season goes to shit.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
With a small payroll team
… you have to think in windows. If I truly thought the Reds could win a WS in the next 2-year window, then I’d be aghast at trading him. But this team, in my humble opinion, is a few big pieces away from a WS championship. Those big pieces include one top starting pitcher (assuming Cueto continues to develop). Unless they just go spend the money for a FA pitcher (and there aren’t many to choose from this year, right?), then I don’t think Votto ever wins anything in Cincinnati.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Hypothetical
Do you think Greinke & Marcum makes this team a playoff contender? Don’t you think the Reds have comparable packages to get those types of players without dealing their best player? I know there probably aren’t equal comps on the market this year, but there’s more than one way to get an ace.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
I agree
If that option were available, then that would be the best plan. I would love for that to happen and then go compete next year with Votto. But if we can’t come up with a way to get one or two strong pitchers, then it doesn’t matter much if Votto is here or not.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Yep
if this team’s rotation was Geinke, Cueto, Marcum, Leake, and Bailey
Things would have been much better in 2011, and the Reds might still be playing now.
The failure of this year rests on the starting rotation, the bullpen was great early in the season, but it got burnt out due to overuse.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
James Shields!
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No and no
Marcum is no ace.
Lucky doesn’t win in the playoffs over the long haul, good to great does.
Why didn’t a lucky team defeat the BRM in 75/76?
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
What about Greinke
and what about the 2006 Cardinals?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Because they already had in 70, 72, & 73?
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Five game league championship series? How did they ever make money back then?
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
the 73 ill give ya
70 and 72 were pre lil joe, pre foster, pre geronimo and pre griffey.
But the mets had a ridiculous rotation.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, in that case
the Reds should just build one of the 3 best teams of all time so that we know they have an actual chance in the playoffs.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Oct 10, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Also
it’s not the rare case. Look at the Poz article that ken linked. It’s pretty common these days for a lower tier playoff caliber team to play in and win the World Series.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
We are not a streaky team
What’s the longest win streak we’ve had ove the past few seasons? I can’t remember any really hot streaks for this team. I don’t think we have the top flight pitchers to get “hot” at the right time. Though I agree with the overall premise…. winning a WS means being just good enough to get in and being really hot at the end of the year.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
They were incredibly streaky in 2010
They won 7 in a row in August and went 23-9 during one stretch. Honestly though, that doesn’t mean squat to me. I’m hoping they bring back a better team in 2012 than they had in 2011.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
OK... the 23-9 is what I'm talking about
It seems the teams that blast through the post-season have runs like that once or twice during the year.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
well, it's pretty hard to get to the post-season without a run like that at some point
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Question
aren’t most teams streaky?
It seems like every playoff team has something comparable to a 23-9 stretch?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
Which is why the Reds have to get Darvish
And why wasting a year of Chapman was monumentally stupid.
The Reds can get Darvish without giving up players so they will finally have the ace they need.
Opening day lineup.
Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Rolen 3B
Alonso LF
Stubbs CF
Messeraco C
Darvish P
Boom title time!
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I doubt the Reds have the money to even talk to Darvish.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Bob Castillini has the money
but I doubt he will use it.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
it would be a stupid use of the money
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
not really my money, so not really my issue
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
That is a way too look at it.
However, Bob has never been a guy to put a bunch of his money in to the team. He might make some small increases, but he isn’t going to open up his check book. He will use the revenues from the team, and the team doesn’t have that kind of money.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess the only thing I'm not sure about is Darvish's contract status.
Is he still under contract with the team from Japan? Is it like Dice-K where you have to pay a fee just to negotiate? If he is free to do what he pleases then you have to kick the tires. But, you have to pay money just to negotiate then no thanks.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Darvish can't become a free agent for another four years, I believe
So yeah, it would go through the posting procedure. The fee isn’t paid if a deal isn’t reached.
Depends on the money
The posting fee for Daisuke was around 50M, which is out of the question. But that bidding took place in a better economy and after the WBC boosted Daisuke’s profile.
It’s similar to the Chapman situation in some ways. Teams are bidding against each other for a guy with serious potential but professional experience in a different environment. If you think Darvish can translate most of his success to the majors, then he’ll be worth every cent he gets.
Darvish is arguably better than Daisuke.
It would really scare me what his posting fee could be.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't closely looked at the numbers, but I understand they're close
What’s between the ears is the most important but unknowable factor. Daisuke had a few good seasons but had a series of problems with the Sox trainers and management about rehabbing, workload, etc. My guess is that Darvish will be much more receptive to Western style training and management.
Also, I could be wrong on this but I believe that Japanese baseballs got bigger this past year (uhh, huh-huh). Before they were slightly smaller than MLB balls, so Daisuke might have had some adjustment problems there.
I agree with this
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
wouldn't the Marlins be more interested in Alonso than Joey?
Cubano and all. Plus, he’d be cheaper, and they’re traditionally the team with the lowest payroll in MLB.
The playoffs are a crapshoot, but that’s probably a feature, not a bug. Otherwise, the same big market teams would win every year.
And I wouldn’t say it’s completely out of step with the rest of baseball. Baseball has always had that element of surprise, of sheer chance. It’s a game where light-hitting Bill Mazeroski can win the WS with one swing of the bat…even though the Yankees had the best record in baseball and outscored the Pirates 55-27 in that series.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Depends on their motivation I'd think
Alonso does seem to make more sense, but if they want someone to put on all of the media guides, advertisements, and TV commercials, then Votto is the guy.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
They are opening a new ball park so they want a big name player.
The argument for bad attendance was the stadium and location. Well, it could also have something to do with always having the same team. Hanley took a big step back last year, and probably isn’t a favorite with the fans either.
Votto also lives in Florida for the offseason.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine how much he pays in maple syrup delivery fees
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
He isn't a real Canadian anymore.
He gets his syrup from Vermont.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Since when is Votto a big name player
He’s the best hitter in the NL, but alot of people don’t know who the fuck he is.
Hell I bet Jay Bruce has higher name recognition than Votto just because he was a #1 prospect at one time.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Joey Votto won an MVP, people know who he is.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not completely out of step, but the point of the Joe Poz article is that we're seeing many more teams win the WS
that aren’t one of the top two teams in baseball. Even if the ’60 WS was lopsided by runs differential, the teams were pretty even. Pirates had two fewer wins and a better Pythag than the Yankees.
As Joe points out, the average for a WS winner in the WC era is somewhere between fourth and fifth best record.
And, he's an alum of UM
I agree. The cubano thing really plays down there. Orestes Destrada is still a flippin’ folkhero down there. And he sucked!
by poojols on Oct 10, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I gotta admit
it feels a little weird talking about trading Votto on Canadian Thanksgiving Day. We should be giving thanks for our favorite Canadian.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Oct 10, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
...and the bounty of awesome pitching he can hopefully bring in return.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Oct 10, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We don't celebrate Canadian holidays.
This is ’merica.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I still have a soft spot for Margo Timmons
by poojols on Oct 10, 2011 11:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joni Mitchell
Saskatoonian to boot.
"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane
Have we adequately discussed shortstop?
What happens come next May when Cozart is hitting .222 and his OBP is some number that is not that great (since I still don’t know what a good OBP number is). What happens when we start to realize that his short cup of coffee before the injury wasn’t really reflective of the player he really is and we end up with another Paul Janish on our hands starting at short and hitting second every night?
Are people convinced Cozart is the answer or are we just writing him down and refusing to talk about it any further because we don’t want to think about it anymore?
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Funny, I was about to propose a Vott/Cozart swap for Hanley/Johnson
I don’t think I’d do it, but if it works out the Reds get an ace and the league’s best shortstop.
I know Janish has scared some people off on homegrown shortstops, but Cozart is a much better hitter than Janish ever was. Not to say he won’t have his struggles, but unless we’re shooting for Reyes or Rollins, I’m not sure if there will be any better options unless there’s a blockbuster trade.
People aren't scared of homegrown shortstops.
People are scared of shortstops named Paul Janish.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley is this years Reyes or Berkman.
Teams will stay away, but they shouldn’t. Don’t be silly teams, trade for Hanley!
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
I'm not so sure Cozart's a much better hitter than Janish ever was
Janish OPS’d .733 in the minors, while Cozart OPS’d .753.
But I think Janish is a better hitter than he showed this year. Given how much a stud SS would cost, I’m willing to take my chances with Cozy.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Mesoraco + Chapman + Francisco = Hanley
Resign Ramon until Grandal is ready.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
Fine, we'll keep Francisco. Win now, I say!
BP
Heisey
Votto
Hanley
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier
LF
Hernanigan
Trade Stubbs, Alonso, Bailey,Volquez, Wood for a SP
Cueto
Aquisition
Leake
Arroyo
Whoever isn’t traded
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
Devin Mesoraco will be a more valuable player than Hanley Ramirez in 2012.
Mark it down.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Just use your penis
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Really?
I think Meso will be good, but I don’t see him being better than Hanley. I think Hanley’s season was mostly a fluke.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't that great last year either.
And his defense is about to tank, methinks.
2012 is probably a stretch, but by 2013 for sure.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I guess it depends. I think Hanley's bat will recover, and he will be moved to 3B.
But, Meso is going to be a fucking stud so it doesn’t matter.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That's all I'm saying.
Even if Hanley gets his OPS back into the 900s, if he’s an average fielding 3B, Meso could be more valuable by being a good fielding C who OPSes .840 or so.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Whatever, Meso is going to OPS 1.000!
Pessimist.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The number of C's with 300 PA that OPS'd .840 in 2011: 2
The number of SS’s with 500 PA that OPS’d .850 in 2011: 2
I’m taking my chances that someone who’s done it before will do it again. Especially since 2012 is very important.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
because
the world is ending in Dec. 2012, so 2012 will be our last chance to win the WS, ever? ;-)
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'm going to have a difficult time in 2012, always looking for shelter...constantly perfecting firestarting in the wild...adjusting to a squirrel diet.
I don’t want to think of 2012 in such a way, yet.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
FAKRRRREEEDREEEERRP
wait, what?
I’ll take that bet!
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley looks to be on the Carlos Lee/Miguel Cabrera diet
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Yet these players are/were amazing from 28-30.
I doubt Dusty would let him gain too much. If he does, move him to 3b in 2013 and 1b/LF in 2014.
Hanley’s do not forget how to hit the ball. His 2011 is what you hope for so you can open the door to acquiring a player that good. Just like Matt Kemp in 2010.
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
If Hanley would move to 1B/LF it would greatly diminish his value.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You just keep telling yourself Cozart isn't a better hitter than Janish
meanwhile, I’ll just bookmark this comment.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
"I'm not so sure Cozart's a much better hitter than Janish ever was"
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Ah I am not sold on Cozart either
I would really like the Reds to get a real shortstop this off season for Cozart to back up.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
i'm not sure
but I think the Reds should find an upgrade at either short, left field, or third, they are taking a risk expecting Alonso to be up to par, Cozart to hit, and Rolen to be healthy.
I would fix shortstop just because that position has the least options if opening day starter fails.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
There is no SS, Yossi
or I would be right there with you in this argument.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
It sounds like
Jocketty is not sure Cozart will be any better than Janish, either. Teh Fay pointed out that their minor league numbers were similar in his SS story, and I suspect that came from Jocketty. That’s why Jocketty was so reluctant to call up Cozart, and why he has a veteran SS on his shopping list this winter.
However, it sounds like he’s looking for someone to back up Cozart, not replace him.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
That "minor league numbers are similar" thing is silly
We’ve been over this a lot already, but one more time for fun:
All of Paul Janish’s decent numbers came from A ball or below. Here is how his OPS breaks down by level:
Rookie: .753
Low A: .830
High A: .776
AA: .686
AAA: .673
He’s been becoming a progressively worse hitter as he raises levels, and has never OPSed even .700 above A ball
Cozart, on the other hand, has a .762 career OPS in AAA and his OPSes have gotten progressively better as he has gone up levels.
Please stop comparing their minor league numbers as if they are remotely similar.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
by nycredsfan on Oct 10, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Janish OPS'd .750 in AAA this year!
Whatever you think…I think the Reds do think they are comparable.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
based on Jocketty's reluctance to call up Cozart
until Dusty forced the issue.
And his announcing that he’s going to get a backup for him, like Renteria for Janish.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
There's a lot of conjecture there
It’s just as possible that Dusty pleaded for more time for Janteria before calling up Cozart.
It’s also possible that Cozart’s June/July convinced Jocketty otherwise.
It’s also possible that Walt’s desire to get a veteran backup is more a condemnation of Janish than of Cozart.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I think when Dusty started to play Edgar regularly it was a sign that he wanted Cozart.
He did a good job of avoiding the question, but that was when he was starting to get pretty pissed about questions from Fay and company.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it was Dusty who wanted Janish
Jocketty was telling the media that he wasn’t making any changes…while Dusty was benching Janish. That’s what forced the callup, because if Jocketty knew he was calling up Cozart, he wouldn’t have gone out on a limb for Janish the day before.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Well, regardless
whether it’s you or Walt who thinks Cozart isn’t a better hitter than Janish, you’re wrong.
Cozart may or may not be a good hitter, and having another SS on the roster only makes sense, because even if Janish wasn’t absolutely terrible, they’d be very thin at the position.
But there is nothing in either player’s profile to suggest that Cozart is going to do anything even remotely approaching the Suck that is Janish at the plate.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Oh, I can see Cozart completely sucking at the plate.
I’ve never liked his OBP skills. But, we’ve already seen Janish suck (and I was a pretty big Janish supporter). I don’t want to see that again, so you have to let the other guy have a chance.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
I can easily see Cozart sucking at the plate (like .640 OPS), but it will still be better than what Janteria gave us.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
so
This means you no longer think Negron has passed Cozart on the SS depth chart? ;-)
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I never thought Negron was a better player
But since they sent him to the AFL last year and he did well, it seemed like the org thought so.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I wish they would just go with Frazier as the super backup.
I don’t think he could really be that bad at SS not to be a backup. He has to be better than Cairo, and Cairo has even been speculated as a backup.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Cairo can play SS
Not as well as he once could, ‘cause he’s old now, and not every day, but I’d trust him at SS as a spot starter or late game sub.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I'd trust Frazier more
‘cause he’s not old and has played more SS more recently.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Frazier should be on the team.
Then we won’t have to sign some stupid old guy to back up Cozart.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I will rec a creds.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Fay does know how to look stats up. I seriously doubt Jocketty made a comment about their minor league numbers being similar.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I'd say Fay is just being a member of the media.
If he says something controversial it gets more people reading his blog.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
there was a guy on my flight the other day
that had to be the love child of joey votto & john ralphio
Turn the beat around
Who is janish better than?
I say next to no one.
I’m cool with Zachary getting 500AB
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
He's probably better than Kris Negron
who has a .215/.265/.333 batting line in Triple-A. In fact, he might actually be better than Alex Gonzalez, who the Reds traded to get Negron.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
He's probably better than Anderson machado
But not Freddie benavides or Rick auerbach.
I’m on the fence if he’s better than Roy oyler
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
Oh shit, the 12" remix???
no.you.di’int.
Follow on Twitter: @jluckhaupt. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
SeaBass? OCab? Pokey Reese? Gooky Dawkins?
it could be worse.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Yuni Betancourt will be our backup SS next year.
He is this year’s Edgard.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
I hate you.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But Yuni is
He’s a sure thing to suck at hitting and be a statue at SS.
It feels so nice to be back to normal
But he's OPSing .984 in the playoffs!
He is clutch. Surely this small sample size is more indicative of his true talent than his career OPS of .683
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
i like ballplayers who hit in the playoffs
I also like pitchers who throw strikes in the playoffs.
I had Yuni pegged as the worst positional player in the league entering 2011, based on stats and JoePos blog entries. After seeing him for a season, he definitely wasn’t the worst ballplayer in the NL.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 6:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just because of veterenecessitity.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Too pricey
Clint Barmes, come on down!
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I think you might have been on to something when you mentioned Jack Wilson
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
I'm telling you man, it's going to be one or the other
They fit the mold to a tee.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
pretty much
Which is why you’ll lose your shit when one of them is signed for 2 years/$5.5 million.
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
Probably.
“Red Reporter: Getting Inordinately Pissed About Everything Since 1869”
It feels so nice to be back to normal
I was going to scoff at this comment, until I looked up their contracts
This season, Wilson made $5 mil, and Barmes made almost $4 mil. Yuck.
Let a man come in and do the Popcorn.
so 2 years, $5.5 million would be a bargain!
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I still say we end up with Alex Cora
but yeah, those two fit the mold for sure. I used to like Jack Wilson though. He could REALLY pick it.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Is Julio Lugo under contract for 2012?
Eckstein?
Vizquel is my guess, however. VPRespect!
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 6:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he's OPSing .984 in the post-season
Obviously, he’s clutch!
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He's as good a hitter as Edgard
his power might really play up at GABP, for example. We could do worse.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
and we did in 2011...
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Red Reporter - "We Have Adequately Discussed Shortstop"
"Wait, you think I'm being mean to the pretend orangutan?" -- battlekow
I think its more like....
Red Reporter – “Zach Cozart is our SS and we will never speak of it again”
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
Red Reporter - Unfortunately, the Reds.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Red Reporter- "We Have Adequately Disgusting Shortstops"
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm somewhat encouraged
by that scouting report Turtle posted. Of course, no one is infallible, but this guy liked Cozart. Said he was the most complete middle infielder in the minors, or something like that.
However, I do think Walt is thinking what you’re thinking. That’s why he’s going to sign a veteran SS.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I guess that wrist injury could/should be a concern as well. He may have a bad year at the plate even in AAA next year?
Never say "TRADE VOTTO"
it wasn't a wrist injury
It was TJ surgery. On his non-throwing arm. I would think he’d be okay.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
unrelated question
can you watch time warner on demand content online?
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I didn't when I had Time Warner, but I don't know if it was an option then.
I miss Time Warner. Compared to to other internet/cable plans it is really cheap.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i miss Fios
The internet was so fast, and it was cheap.
Comcast sucked most of the way around, you had to get a box to watch basic cable, and it was expensive.
But Fios’s and Comcast’s on demand technology are so much better than Time Warner’s.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I could never get Fios where lived. Time Warner was the cheapest and the fastest internet.
You couldn’t beat 100 HD channels and 10MB/sec internet for $90.
You had me at meat tornado. ~ Ron Swanson
by BigBabyBruce on Oct 10, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i have zoomtown for my internet
which was super awesome in 2000.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
I don't use on demand
But so far, I love Fios. It is crazy fast. And cheap. And reliable.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wish I could get Fios...damn Comcast
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
Apparently the feds have found out about my recaps.
by crolfer on Oct 10, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
im stumping for at least once/monthly drunkie game recaps from crolfs in 2012
Each month is a different buzz inducing spirit.
Apr – Ice Beer
May – red wine
Jun – MD 2020
July – tequila, straight
Aug – long island iced teas
Sep – Cosmopolitans
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Oct 10, 2011 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
October - Champagne
Individuality: Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else.
by joshuar9476 on Oct 10, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I just want to say that anyone that thinks we should trade Votto is a complete idiot
We have huge opportunity in the next 2 years to win a WORLD FUCKING SERIES and you aren’t going to do that by trading Votto for a bunch of 23 year olds.
We have a top 3(NL) pitcher and the best hitter, as well as top 7 offense in baseball(runs scored), and a top 5 defense.
We have DEEP talent in prospects…enough to acquire the arms we need to contend next year. Walt needs to do what the Brewers did last year and place a significant invest of prospects and PAYROLL to winning in 2012.
The only time it makes sense to trade a player of Votto’s caliber is at the trade deadline the year before his contract is up…and you are a lock to NOT make the playoffs.
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2011 8:14 PM EDT reply actions
you probably think it's a great idea to sell JPM because it's fallen all the way to 32 too, right?
I mean, selling it at 45 when it was worth 45% MORE makes zero sense, right?
I mean, I’m a complete idiot speaking here, so I may be a bit hard to understand, but if I’ve got a portfolio of player-values at my command, and I know that selling high inherently provides more resources to provide to my portfolio, I’d be a complete idiot to hold on to something that was extremely in demand and destined to lose value AND depreciate in 2 years.
This doesn’t even bring in the fact that not only is Yonder Alonso on the roster and ready to mash, YOU ALREADY TOOK HIM IN THE FIRST ROUND AND GAVE HIM GUARANTEED MONEY TO BE YOUR FIRST BASEMEN. Remember that? Also, remember how good he’s been?
Let’s see if I can conjure up this image effectively (y’know, being a complete idiot and all)…
This is what you could buy with a spare $30 million:
This (which would probably be my idiotic choice.)
This (although she may be too damn in shape to get pregnant…bummer!)
Or even this.
One would win you a World Series, one would provide the perfect World Series championship party locale, and one would let you and 300 of your friends really, REALLY enjoy a LOTR marathon.
Either way, I don’t find it idiotic in the least.
Tequila and pancakes, anyone?
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Oct 10, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If I want to win a World Series trading Joey Votto is not at the top of my list of shit to do in the off-season
Trade Joey Votto
Temporary expand payroll for 2 years
Acquire Sheilds with prospects
Acquire Carlos Quentin with prospects
Make Chapman a Starter
@DavefrmLville.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 10, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue is:
you are overlooking the real deficit we have of quality pitching. Don’t delude yourself into thinking that Cueto is a top-3 pitcher, he might not be top-12. And after that, our rotation is basically near-lock losers in a postseason series. Our rotation was one of the worst in MLB last year, which says to me that we aren’t really on the cusp of winning a WS.
Now if you think that Jocketty will go out and spend a haul in prospects and cash to make significant upgrades, by all means hang on to Votto and go all in to win. If you think he is working under budget constraints (as most people do), this is not a realistic option at all. And you basically are saying let’s see if the team as is can win a championship, because there’s no room anywhere for a big upgrade unless we shed some payroll somewhere else.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Yeah! Spend more money! Why won't they spend more money! It's not my money!
It feels so nice to be back to normal
Yeah i know
Bobby C is really hurting these days.
"Life is such a vapid world pool of nothing"-Eddie Pepitone
by Yossarian22 on Oct 11, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
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