Reds mulling multi-year deal with Volquez
Volquez was like "$2 million" and the Reds were all "$1.3 million." So now they're working out a deal, with one-year and multiple years still on the table.
The Reds clearly have an interest in cost-certainty, given the wealth or potential arb cases they've been facing over the next few years, but they also have no pressing need to reduce Volquez's 2011 salary. Is this a good buy-low scenario?
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It would be moronic to sign him to anything but a one year
And I would pay 1.3MM for his fastball alone. Starter or not.
"Never fight a land war in Asia"
Not sure if I follow...
You’re saying it would be moronic to sigh him to anything BUT a one year or LESS than one year; because your second line sounds like you’re high on Volquez?
Sure, I wouldn't pay for something I didn't like.
But with a recovering pitcher, How can you invest more than a year and feel safe?
because your second line sounds like you’re high
Close.
"Never fight a land war in Asia"
Lol
I just think if I’m Volquez, I’m not 100% sure that I’ll be able to fully recover and make the #1 or #2 starter free agent money. So, I’d be much happier with $10-12 million in the bank, then $1.5-2. For the Reds, I just don’t see it as such a big risk for one of your starters who’s proven that he has #1/#2 starter stuff to sign him for 3 years what you’d pay a Free agent for 1 year.
The Reds can invest for more than a year and easily feel safe.
The list is long these days of pitchers who have had tommy john surgery, or ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction for all of you smart people.
With the way the surgery is these days many guys come back with even stronger arms than before the surgery. Which is why there are alot of dumbass parents trying to force teenagers to have the surgery when they don’t really need it.
A list of notable pitchers that have had the surgery.
A.J. Burnett
Jose Canseco( love this one)
John Franco
Eric Gagne
Francisco Liriano
Joe Nathan
Jose Rijo (3 times!)
Kenny “give me the fucking camera” Rogers
John Smoltz
Josh Johnson
Manny Corpas
Stephen Strasburg
Billy Wagner
Kerry Wood
Bill “Sideburns” Bray
Chris “I’m a pussy in a brawl” Carpenter
Tim Hudson
Brian Wilson
Jamie Moyer
As you can see there are plenty of great players that have gone through the surgery and come out just as good or better. If the Reds were to lock EdV to a multi-year deal it would be a smart case of buying low. I’d love to see the Reds lock him up on the cheap for 3-5 years.
6-2, 185
But the question is
Will post opt Edinson Voqleuz be A.J. Burnett or Kerry Wood?
There are plenty of pitchers who successfully comeback from TJ, but there are plenty who then go on to have a series of other arm injuries. We don’t really know if this arm injury is a one time thing or if he will have future shoulder and elbow injuries.
I have no doubt that Volquez’s surgery was successful, he demonstrated that, but if he can stay injury free is the question.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
and i wouldn't claim the Jose Rijo's 2002/2003 corpse was as good as 1994 Rijo
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
It was pretty cool to see though.
Especially for me. I’d grown up watching the 1990 WS highlights and hearing these stories about Rijo, so to actually get to see him in action- albeit at a much lower level- was pretty neat.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
the first time I heard Rijo's name it was when he was done for
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I saw his first game back as a starter
It was at Wrigley, April 21, 2002.
He lasted 5 innings, gave up just 1 unearned run, and got the win. I was sitting in the LF bleachers and a punk kid spent the entire game yelling “Your mother doesn’t love you, Adam!” at a 22 year old Dunner. Austin Kearns hit his first career homer. Mainly, the dumb Cubs fans just couldn’t believe that this 37 year old, washed up pitcher could shut down their beloved offense that featured Corey Patterson in CF.
Actually, looking back, that game was probably the high point of my Reds fandom of the first half of the decade. So much went downhill after that.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I am devaststingly handsome and disarmingly charming
So it is a rare occasionN indeed, when I’m jealous of another man. This is one of those times. Would’ve loved to have witnessed that.
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Jan 21, 2011 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that would have been a cool game to go see
i was a freshman in high school when that happened.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Gange was never the same post TJ, Liriano took a few years to recover, and never reached pre surgery form. Franco’s surgery was so late in his career, it really just allowed his corpse to continue to go out to the mound. Joe Nathan has yet to throw a pitch post opt. Rogers is a success story. Smoltz returned slowly from surgery, and spent a few years in the bullpen. Johnson succeeded. Corpas has yet to throw a post opt pitch. Strasburg hasn’t pitched post surgery. Wagner pitched well. Kerry Wood kept getting hurt. Bill Bray has only pitched 3 mediocre months post surgery. Chris Carpenter took 2 years to fully recover, but looks fine. Hudson has pitched one fine season after surgery. Brian Wilson is a success story. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jamie Moyer retires.
Just looking at your incomplete list, there are a few success stories, compared to a number of pitchers who either haven’t returned yet, or who had a number of injuries after surgery.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Liriano had a filthy year last year
He’s a different pitcher, but still a very good one
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
shit he did
i lose track of junior circuit.
I even saw him pitch in April.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Did Carmona ever have TJ surgery?
Or did he just regress naturally?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
some may say he was over used in 2007
but he never did strike out a lot of batters.
I kinda feel bad for the Indians, I don’t have the animosity for Cleveland that a lot of Cincinnati fans have, and it looked like they had another fine corp of young players in 2007 that would make an extended run.
It also scars the shit out of me really, because they went from great young team to shit in a hurray.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
how do you have TJ 3 times?
at some point, you run out of ligaments, right?
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
Pretty much., Rijo was a medical miracle.
In 2002, John Eradi wrote an article about Rijo. Dr. Kremcheck was unsure how Rijo was able to throw a baseball close to 90 MPH because he didn’t really have a ligament anymore, basically the scar tissue, arthritis, and bone chips (things that are generally the pitchers enemy), were able to stabilize his elbow.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
I think you take some risk on Volquez and sign him to a 2 year with a 3rd year vestion option. He’s shown he has the ability to be a great pitcher and it would be nice with all these market-value contracts to have a couple of these guys locked up at especially good deals for the Reds.
how often do players receive options for years still covered by arbitration?
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
D'OH!
So, sign him to a 3-year with a vesting 4th year option. If I’m Volquez, I take $12 million guaranteed over the course of the next 3 years. And realistically, it’s a pretty small risk for the Reds. It would be like picking up a “proven #2” starter for a year as a free agent.
That's crazy that he's still covered by arbitration...
He got his first major league action in 2005! What effect did the surgery and ban have on when he becomes a Free Agent?
still covered? This is his first year of arbitration
He’s still got 2 more years after this one before he’s a free agent.
His clock was still running after the surgery because he was on the big league DL. If he had been in the minors when the injury happened, his clock would have paused. That’s what happened with Bill Bray.
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
But in some ways it's not a bad thing that he accrued service time while injured,
because at least it means he’s cheaper now in arb.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
They had no effect on his MLB service time
he was still on a major league roster, but he didn’t spend much time on MLB rosters between 2005 and 2007, so he was still a “first year” pitcher in 2008 when he debuted for the Reds.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
and apparently the next year as well
seeing as he got ROY votes
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
2008 was the year he got ROY votes, though.
Same year as Votto and Bruce.
by the finest muffins on Jan 22, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
HLM is going to be thrilled to hear this
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 21, 2011 3:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
HLM hates talented baseball players.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
but he does volunteer, so that is nice
that isn’t meant to be sarcastic.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
whoa
I wanna get a puppy in the worst way
thinking about an American Mastiff, what do you think?
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
A mastiff would be the only dog i would get in my current diggs
the think that puts me off on a Mastiff is most only live to be 7 or 8. My folks got the beagle of my youth the last week of first grade (she was 1-3 years old), and she was put down after I graduated from undergrad.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
what was her name?
I’ve always liked Beagles
right now we’re in the “do we get a dog, or have kids” decision stage
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I have a beagle
She hunts things, like poop below the snow. And she barks all night.
"Never fight a land war in Asia"
also my parents current beagle mix
ended up costing them about $2,000 in the first year and a half, it was a shelter dog, but it runs, and even though their is a chained link fence it climbed the fence almost daily. People were finding her a couple of miles away, and they ended up having to get an Invisible Fence, just so she doesn’t end up running to the big high way 2 miles from our house and being hit by a car.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
dogs in general are not cheap
cheaper than kids, but not by much
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
no joke
My lab, Chelsea got into it with a copperhead while we were at Disney World. She survived, but she had to go in for so many surgeries that the vets stopped charging us.
Percy, our oldest sheltie got insanely sick after catching 2 rabbits in our backyard. We had to feed him special food for a long time. We’ve also had to get some little benign tumors removed from him. Now he’s on some arthritis medicine. We have some ridiculously expensive dogs.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Worth every penny though.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
by crolfer on Jan 22, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
why did catching two rabbits
make him sick?
Were they sick rabbits? Or had they been poisoned?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He ate them. Other than that, not sure.
He ate the front half of one and the back half of another.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I'm not even mad
that’s just impressive
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
by UncleWeez on Jan 22, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Daisy
my parents now have a black beagle mix that is Intrepid.
Based on my neighbors experience, if you want kids have kids first. They got a dog, and then had kids, and it isn’t a good situation for the dog.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
dog names fascinate and intrigue me
if we end up getting an American Mastiff, what do we name such a large creature?
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
name it Prince
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
You shut your whore mouth
but seriously, what do I name my dog?
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Frank.
Frank is an excellent name for a dog.
And don’t forget it was I who first named Bronson Condom Arm, so you should respect my naming abilities to the 100th power.
Fred Lewis and EdRent together are not worth One Laynce Nix
I will never name my dog Condom Arm
although I will refer to Condom Arm as Condom Arm for 2011
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
we've discussed it
but, with a 3 year old nephew and a 1 year old niece, we want a breed that’s supposed to have a good temperament around kids
and we want a dry mouth
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
We had a lab/rotty mutt
that was great around our 2 year old.
Can’t comment about the mouth moisture, I’m afraid.
If that's what you're looking for, German Shepherd is a good choice.
My family has one and she’s the sweetest dog I’ve ever seen, especially with kids. They’re a really smart breed. People are scared of them because they’re police dogs and everything, but they’re only mean if they’re trained to be. If they’re raised as pets, they’re really gentle.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
This is true
German Shepherds are crazy smart, and typically really calm.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Definitely.
One of my neighbors had like 3. They were great.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
yeah, but don't they normally have hip problems?
that’s what breeders have told us
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Quite a few do.
Mine was healthy through her youth, so we were lucky. Arthritis in the hips has caught up to the poor thing badly, though. She’s 10 right now and on some days she has a noticeable limp.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Happens with a lot of dogs
Our lab had issues like that too. LB’s border collie has that going on. Our older sheltie too.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
hip problems
are more common with large dogs in general.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
almost every dog has some kind of problem later in life
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda like having dumb pets
If the dog is smarter than the owner, it can only lead to trouble.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
The way I see it, the smarter a dog is the better.
They’re easier to train.
We have a Yorkie who is basically a mentally retarded dog (no, that is not a joke… we brought in some special trainer and he said she is not trainable and needs to be treated like a Downs Syndrome child) and she’s a real pain in the ass. She’s just getting the hang of the whole going to the bathroom outside thing at three years old and she growls at everyone who is a stranger at all. Also, she occasionally barks at me or my dad when we walk in the room for no reason at all. There are also certain objects (like remotes or flashlights) that set her off. I have all kinds of stories about her being dumb.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
i feel differently
the two dogs i’ve spent a lot of time around two dogs, the pure bread beagle (we think), and the beagle mix. The beagle mix is much smarter than the pure bread was. The beagle mix is also much more defiant than the pure bread, my theory is she is really smart so she knows how to do things, and just doesn’t give a shit what we think.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
I've found
it’s much easier to control animals that are less intelligent.
I’ve seen some that are so dumb they can’t even figure out how to push open a partially open door. If it’s only open a few inches, they can’t figure out how to push it open wider, and just sit there, looking forlornly at the door.
Then there are the ones that are so smart you can’t keep them inside. They not only can turn the doorknob, they learn to unlock the door if it’s locked, then turn the doorknob.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
i agree
plus if they are less trainable dogs to begin with (like beagles), they think for themselves, and think they have better plans.
I think the new dogs other problem is she is smart, strong, really fast, and all of her senses are really strong, so she can see, smell, and hear a lot of things, and her natural beagle instinct to investigate is far more important than what mere humans want her to do.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Our smarter dog is the one that's obedient.
The dim one also happens to have absolutely zero conscience and be obsessed with food.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
"The dim one also happens to have absolutely zero conscience and be obsessed with food."
Sounds like we have a new member of the RR Burger Review Board.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Your pure bread dog sounds tasty!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 21, 2011 11:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
of all the problems in that paragraph
that is what you decided.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 22, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
she kind of is like one
the old dog, if she was bad, we just had to tell her to get into her bed and she would lay there looking sad for the rest of the night.
This one we tell her she is bad and to go to her bed, and she will just sit there wagging her tail with a toy in her mouth, and will eventually jump on your lap.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 22, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Get some pit bulls
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
that really depends on the pure breed and the mutt
A lot of the really popular breeds (labs, yorkies, etc) have been really bred out and have a lot of problems.
OTOH, a lot of times mixed breeds inherit the worst qualities of their parents’ breeds and end up a mess.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
We have a Yorkie and she's a total bitch. (Get it?)
We have a German Shepherd and some mutt from a Puppy Mill, and they’re both awesome. The Yorkie is the one that growls and bites.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
good reason to adopt an adult rather than a puppy
You’ll know what the critter’s temperament is like.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
But then you miss the puppy stage!
And that’s true, except when you adopt from a shelter, you never know how the dog will react to being put in a new situation.
By no means am I discouraging getting a rescue dog or a shelter dog. That’s a wonderful thing, but it is full of its own issues.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
puppies are adorable
But they aren’t puppies long. And there’s something to be said for having someone else deal with the toilet training and the “chew all the sheetrock off the walls” stage.
A good shelter will test the animals in different situations, so they’ll know if it has issues. They should be able to tell you if the dog can handle kids, cats, other dogs, strangers, noises, etc.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah, key word being "should"
We have good friends who got a shelter dog that was supposed to be really well adjusted, but the poor guy is a mess. The worst part is he goes absolutely crazy around black people. Barking, growling, etc. They had no idea he did this when they got him. It’s really embarassing. We’ve watched him sometimes and when I walk him I have to cross to the other side of the street if a black person is approaching on the sidewalk.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
one of my friends has a dog like that
The weirdest thing is…they’ve had her since she was a puppy. They did all the right things, including standing in front of the grocery store with her and letting her socialize with everyone going in and out.
But she hates black people. Barks, growls, tries to bite them. It is very embarrassing, and they have no idea why she’s like that.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Sounds like that dog belongs in Philadelphia.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
All dogs are winners
in their own special way.
The Bleacher Report is the armpit of the internet. - BTcoop71
by johnu1 on Jan 22, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I always thought
dogs that didn’t like blacks or whites grew up without them around. I used to do service work in neighborhoods that had few or no white people. Some of the dogs would go nuts at the sight of me. A lot of them never went anywhere.
I really don't know what causes it
But judging from Google, it’s a pretty common problem.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
the dead beagle hated men for the first 5 years we had her
We found her “free to a good home”. Somebody found her on the streets, beaten and pregnant. We aren’t sure if she was abused and ran away, or if she was dumped, but when my dad first met her, she barked and barked and barked, until he took her for a walk and gave her a treat, then they were friends.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
It really depends, but on average it's better to go with the mutt
Breeding just isn’t natural. There are problems with particular breeds, like you mention, plus all of the breeders that don’t know or really care what they’re doing and essentially sell in-bred dogs. Plus, if you buy a pure-bred you’re a breedist.
We had a mutt when I was born
She was a stray that would follow joggers around Troy. My parents wanted a dog and brought her back. She had some corgi/beagle/maybe some sheltie. Amber. She was my bud when I was a baby.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Sounds good.
I’ve got 2 shelties now. When I’m living away from home, I’ll probably have at least a couple dogs. Definitely a lab.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Most Breeds, if properly socalized, will be good with kids.
So just stay away from the ones that are not. (Pits, Bassets, taco-bell fuckers)
The most important questions to be asking yourself when looking at breeds is:
1: Lifestyle, how much exercise do you do? how often do you travel?
2. Space, in the yard, in the car, on the couch.
3. how much time will you have in the first year to train him/her, and expose them to new experiances (this is important)
this is important choice, please make it carefully, people picking dogs based on looks or popularity, is the first step to imbalanced dogs, and full shelters.
My rat terrier/Beagle mix has been my best friend for ten years, if I had it to do over again, I would have kennel trained him (making him stay in a box while we were gone, and at night at first) If I had done this, he would not have so much anxiety about being alone.
by Eastwindquinn on Jan 22, 2011 4:17 AM EST up reply actions
Bassets are bad with kids?
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 22, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
meh, Bassets are just sorta shit heads. I would not leave one olone with someone elses kid.
by Eastwindquinn on Jan 22, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I always thought they were just kinda of sweet and stupid
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 22, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
sounds kinda backwards, no?
I’d leave a dog alone with someone else’s kid in a heartbeat
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
What I mean...
If I knew the dog, i would leave him alone with my kid.
But I might not leave any Basset with someone elses kid, just in case.
by Eastwindquinn on Jan 23, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
again, screw other people's kids!
population control! thin the herd!
…. but I get what you’re saying… Bassets cannot be trusted!
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
Pitbulls are incredibly misunderstood
It all depends on the the owner/trainer. If you are consistent and train the dogs well they are excellent with kids or in any situation. They are given a bad name because of the assholes that treat them like shit or train them to fight and then they attack people.
My roommate has a pitbull and it bucks every pitbull stereotype. But, the dog was also put through a very strict training cycle.
"Me carrying a briefcase is like a hot dog wearing earrings." ~ Sparky Anderson
by BigBabyBruce on Jan 23, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pit Bulls aren't human aggresive by nature
And generally speaking, they’re big lazy babies.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
you are right.
but i would also say it has to do with lifestyle,
A lonely pit can be trouble.
by Eastwindquinn on Jan 26, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
not true
I hate overpaid, overrated baseball players
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
I love that this is your first thought on the subject
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
My whole life is basically a bunch of vengeful and bitter thoughts towards people I haven't met
/grumbles about jch and his bad attitude
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
if it's less than 2 years, and less than 2 million per year, it actually makes him more tradeable, no?
which then makes me all warm and fuzzy inside in hopes that we’ll ship his can’t go deep into ballgames ass out of town for a legit LF or SS
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
! year - $900,000
Certaily no more than !M
His freakin’ arm and shoulder are going to fall off
I guarantee it.
Fred Lewis and EdRent together are not worth One Laynce Nix
i thought about that joke
but i went against it, since he has two elbows and shoulders.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like someone's parents took the song "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes" a bit too seriously.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
I understand the drive for cost certainty with guys like Votto and Cueto
but I don’t see the need with Volquez. To me, his risk is too high to be guaranteeing him big money two years from now. That being said, I’d do a 3-year deal at a discount. Say something like 3yr/$12M would be fine. That’s a 20% discount over a 2/5/8 annual breakdown, which is a cheap estimate. If he pitches like he did in 2008 next season, he’ll probably get 2/7/10 (assuming he wins his arb case this year).
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No, 2/5/8 is my conservative estimate of what he'd get year-to-year
the 3yr/$12M is a 20% discount on that. I don’t really care how it’s broken down.
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But the point of all of this
is that he only gets 2/5/8 if he stays healthy. That’s a conservative estimate assuming he pitches full seasons (or close to it) in 11 and 12. That’s the big assumption here. I don’t think there’s any doubt that, if healthy, he’d be worth way more than $12 mil over the next 3 seasons.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Can you buy chemistry?
I know we’re only supposed to focus on numbers and stats, but the game is still played by humans. Its a small consideration, but the one thing that is happening with these contracts is the team is sending a clear message that there is a young, extremely talented nucleus on this team and the team values them enough to just skip through their arbitration years. I would like to think that this will only increase the good feelings in that clubhouse. And while good feelings in the clubhouse won’t turn a bad team into a contender, it could help a good team be even better.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
It's definitely a consideration
but the thing is, signing these guys doesn’t guarantee they’ll be here. Cueto, Votto, and Volquez have 3 years of team control regardless, so signing them through their arb years doesn’t promise they’ll be here for all three years. If anything, it makes them more tradeable.
Still, from a PR standpoint, I think you have a good point.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Volquez should stay away from the chemistry
The next suspension will be a hundred games.
by ken on Jan 21, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
ZING!
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 21, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
So I like this Volquez can be extended for dirt cheap right now
He is going to be fine. Cueto and Volquez are not pitching Winter Ball anymore, and Volquez was throwingpretty decent at the end of last year at less than 100%.
If he’s an All-Star next year, this could be a flat out steal. Same with the Cueto deal.
I like these deals ALOT better than the Arroyo deal.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 21, 2011 6:47 PM EST reply actions
I'm worried about his control
Which was never terrific. I might be making this up but I thought that guys coming back from elbow surgery tend to take a while to find their control, whereas shoulder guys have problems regaining velocity.
I don’t think an extension is worth it unless we get a crazy discount. We’ve got enough rotation depth that Volquez might not be necessary. If he has a great 2011, then we can give him a big raise or flip him for a position of need. If he does poorly, then we can write him off without throwing away a lot of money.
Eh... you can't have too much pitching.
And Volquez is the only one on the team that has looked anything like an ace in the past over the course of a full season.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
how's he looked like an Ace?
Wood and Cueto have looked more like an Ace than Volquez
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Just by pure numbers.
“look” was a bad word choice. I’m not saying he’s the best on the team by any means, but he has the best season of any of our guys.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I agree with you crolfer,
I feel like if he has done anything, its show that his upside is higher than any pitcher in our organization other than possibly Chappy. What he accomplished at the major league level has to be valued. Unlike everyone else on our staff, when you look at his entire body of work along with his stuff, the guy shows he could be our difference maker. It’s why he started game 1. Hey the guy wasn’t ready, and we weren’t going to beat Halladay anyway, but if anyone on the staff could catch lightening in a bottle and possibly do it, it’d be Eddy.
This cat’s stuff is elite, no doubt and I know your down on him HLM (and personally I hate some of the crap I’ve heard about him) but I feel we need to protect this asset and if there is a decent to good chance we can save 2-4 million on him over the next 3 years, with our budget I think we need to do it.
Note:
I am not down on anyone on this staff. I love Wood and Leake, think Bailey could take a big step and become damn good at any moment, and I feel Cueto will only get more and more consistent with age. I just feel EV could be THAT good.
the first half of 2008, Volquez was one of the top pitchers in baseball
There was talk of him starting the 2008 All Star game. He was solid, but not dominant in the second half.
I went to this game started by Cliff Lee, and it was pretty much the best pitchers of each league facing off.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I remember that game
I had ridiculously high expectations for Volkie at that point.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 21, 2011 11:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was at that game, too
My brother and I sat in left field and yelled encouraging things at Adam Dunn.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 22, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
He had an absurdly low HR rate in that first half
He gave up something like 4 HRs, which wasn’t sustainable for a FB pitcher.
Writing him off for a poor season next year is a bit strong,
Right? Easing expectations, making him a RP, paying him a lot less are all understandable, but sheesh, what if CLE had written off Cliff Lee after ’04, ’06, or ’07?
But I am also worried about control, so agree very much with that.
But I see his floor being a damn good reliever, or even our Marmol or closer.
I didn't mean kick him to the curb if he has a bad '11
I meant writing him off as a frontline starter. He could still be useful in the ’pen if his control and pitch economy are problems.
Re-injury risk is the biggest thing.
Some of you guys are acting like we haven’t seen him pitch in a year. Remember that he did come back and he showed some great pitching, earning the Game 1 start (that game itself was a little rough, but the fact that he was the starter in it says a lot.)
I think he’ll be fine, as long as this isn’t a sign that he has a glass arm or something.
"I bet that sex Bengals fan is really pissed now." -DT3428
Kerry Wood looked pretty good in 2003
and we know what happened after that.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 21, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Ha! The Angels are dumb.
They just traded for Vernon Wells. And get this…they’re not getting any money in the deal!
For those that don’t know, Wells is owed like $86M over the next 4 years.
Idiots
Follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
They do
and I believe they are still paying $11M to Gary Matthews Jr.
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so Vernon Wells....
new Angels LF, or DH?
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
They are paying Bobby Abreu $9M
And Hunter doesn’t play CF anymore. He played RF the last 2 months of the year and Peter Bourjos took over CF.
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strange things are afoot at the Circle K
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 21, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Alex Anthropolus used some Jedi Mind Trick™ on the Angels
that’s the only logical explanation
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yes.......logical.......
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 21, 2011 11:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You gotta like the Blue Jays future
with that guy at the helm. He’s done shit I never thought was possible.
And not only did they not send any cash to the Angels, but they actually got one of the better catchers in the league in the deal. This is ungoddamnedbelievable.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 22, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed,
he is on his way to ripping off enough guys that no one will deal with him any more haha. That org has gotten pretty deep and even has some fun guys to watch at the major league level, though it’s impossible for a fourth team to dream of competing in the East right now. I may be this team in a franchise mode in MLB2k11.
I spent my afternoon with 2K10
Adding our prospects to the Reds roster… sigh. I’ll study tomorrow.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
It's by far the worst vice in my life at the moment
It seems like just as a I get bored with MLB, Madden comes out, then NBA2K (which I am stuck on now) comes out, then I’ve got to fit FIFA and Tiger Woods in somewhere. Shit, I wish I could swear them off haha, that and masturbating…
The Angels have a pretty good track record now of making stupid signings and trades
but this one absolutely takes the cake. Everyone figured that contract was untradeable, but Anthopoulos traded it and may have gotten the better player back in the deal, plus an average-ish LF as well to replace Wells if he wants. AA is officially in the conversation for best GM in MLB.
He's now gotten rid of the contracts for both Rios and Wells
About 150M saved, that had been committed to two roughly average outfielders. Not bad.
Rios is generally pretty good
but it wasn’t really any deft maneuvering that got rid of Rios’ contract. The White Sox decided to pick it up, and they might not regret it either.
Deft or not, he got rid of it
You can do worse than Rios. He’s essentially a league average hitter at CF. That’s not a bad player, but it’s also someone you don’t want to sink a ton of money in. When Chicago let him go, Rios was still owed $60M and had been declining for a couple of years. Even with a rebound year in Chicago he was still just a three win player. He’s now entering his thirties. Maybe he doesn’t decline, but I wouldn’t want to pay him eight figures for another four years for the privilege of finding out.
he's definitely overpaid
but I think he’s better than league average
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
100 OPS+ in the last three years, 103 for his career
plays in the middle of the defensive spectrum. He does run well but that will diminish in his thirties. He might be a little better than average, but not much.
by fWAR
he’s been better than average in 6 of his 7 ML seasons. Well above average offense in 4 of the last 5 seasons, with generally good to very good defense. I think he’s pretty fairly paid. Which is why I don’t really give AA credit for “getting rid” of the contract. He cut Rios from the team, and another team felt that the contract was fair enough to pick it up.
What he's done in the past three years is much more important than anything from prior years
This really isn’t worth belaboring further. He’s entering his thirties and has hit exactly league average for the past few seasons. I don’t believe he’s considered a great fielder anymore, if he ever was. He’s got minus TZ figures for the last three years and his career. He hasn’t had a significantly good UZR since ‘07. I don’t believe he’s gotten any fielding bible votes or GGs. There’s no way he’d get 50M on the open market today.
My original point was just that AA has gotten rid of two huge financial obligations in the past year and a half. One was through a shrewd trade (though for all we know, LAA called him up and it simply fell in his lap), the other through waivers. I didn’t bestow genius status on him.
So in a year and a half he managed to get rid of Alex Rios' and Vernon Wells' contracts?
Someone give that man a raise.
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
Worst move of the offseason
Is there anyway he’s not going to be on another team in ’13 getting paid $20+million by LAA?
I'd offer up to 3 years and 15 million
Is it just me or am I the only one who thinks if he gets his control back to what it was before the arm injury, i.e. first 2/3rds of ‘08, that he could be our ace? I’m not talking a 2 or 3 like Cueto, Arroyo, Leake, or Wood, but a bona fide ace. I mean that curve is gross, and he just learned to throw it, so no way he knows how to control it yet. If he takes the same progression as some of the other young guys who have had TJ surgery, like a Liriano, he becomes the key cog in our rotation.
But, is cost certainty really that important? I am not a big fan of the chemistry argument, as my feeling is Walt gives him 1.6 or so this year and pats him on the butt and says “kid, do something so you got us by the balls next year in arbitration and we will try to be there with a fat contract extension.”
With all this said, none of us are as close to EV as the Reds are. Hopefully they have monitored him, and see that he is either getting better or not. If they think he takes the next step, then hook him up, but if they see the immature clown that was sent down to A ball in Texas because he cared more about partying, rapping, and trend setting, then go year to year.
Lastly, if he doesn’t get enough control back, am I the only one who feels he could be the best reliever on this team? His stuff is undeniably elite, and would, ideally, get better in one inning stints. I’d be okay with giving him a shot at closing in 2012, if his shits not together next year (I’d also have Chappy starting 100% of the time in AAA, until he is ready to come up to the majors, until he proves he can’t start and be successful), granted I want, and would almost bet on him being our best starter next season.
I completely agree with you
All of this silly talk of Her or Chappy being the future closer and ignoring the guy whose stuff and injury history make him perfectly suited for the role.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 22, 2011 9:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
*meant Homer, not Her
stupid mobile
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jan 22, 2011 9:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I looked at the thread and was like "sweet 63 new comments"
Then I realized everyone was talking about there fucking dogs.
There are maybe 20 comments in this thread about a Volquez extention.
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 22, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions
off-topic comments at Red Reporter?
Shocking!
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
who's volquez?
and why do we want to extend him?
The Bleacher Report is the armpit of the internet. - BTcoop71
Volquez extension!
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 22, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot about the "there" dogs
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Volquez, extension?
Need the number of that store where they make ceramics in an oven made out of damaged circus supplies. It's called Rumpled Stilts Kiln. - Jon Wurster
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jan 22, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Volquez tried to work on his extension once before.
It got him suspended.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
by crolfer on Jan 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
since most everyone here in anti-Edinson
he is bound to have a breakout season and be healthy for 2-3 years
highlifemanhightimeslovechild
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
i wouldn't be shocked if he stays healthy for the rest of his time under Cincinnati control
but i wouldn’t want to extend him too far after that right now.
"I can’t imagine playing anywhere else. I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team."
-Joey Votto
by justin007000 on Jan 22, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
get bent, fuckface (and I mean that with love)
or, he can have a breakout season in 2011 which shines him up real nice to flip him for that legit LF or SS we’ll need for 2012
unless you want to see some of that sweet sweet Janish in the lineup on a permanent basis
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 22, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
the Reds will need a 3B also by 2012
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
I'm sure one of those IF types we have "developing" in the minors can hack it @ 3B
or we can trade The Franchise for a 3B, or a LF,or a SS, and plug in one of those prospects @ 2B
2B and 3B don’t befront me. SS does, and the fact we haven’t solved LF just boggles my mind.
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
having a hole in LF aint that bad
i can understand if ur boggled because it seems like it would be easy to fill.
at the same time — it is easy to fill, and they reds may have opportunities to do so midseason. if theres any position on the field i’d be willing to go without a surefire starter, it’s LF.
por examplo
Manny, Vlad, and Branyan are still on the market even now.
There’s just a lot of mediocre LFers floating around at the moment. Whether I’d want one NOW is one thing, but it’ll be good to know they’re still around come June.
"College actually kind of beat that out of me, making me more, well, of an asshole."
mmmm Branyan
why’d you have to mention HIM?! I think I’d finally pull the trigger on getting a Reds Branyan jersey if he came back to us
and b/c no one reads FanShots, Manny’s not on the market!
I’m sure there will be some big LF thumper on the market mid-summer, the only question remains if we’ll be relevant in a playoff race and if the Lettuce Man will let us add $$$$ to the roster if that LF means we have a better shot of pulling away from the pack.
…. and I remain skeptically optimistic about my man Fred Lewis, our hopefully new starting LF
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
anyone with a .350+ obp can play for my ballclub
trade Gomes!
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
so you're saying you agree with me?
b/c I love me some Branyan
and I wanna see what Lewis can do
fuck Gomes.
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
The Reds will need a 3rd baseman by 2011. 5
Fred Lewis and EdRent together are not worth One Laynce Nix
by Madville on Jan 23, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
dogs is a new realm for us, or at least for me
and let’s just extend Volquez to something that makes him more tradeable
now, back to something non-baseball related….
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 22, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
hey, do they let dogs on trains?
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
seeing eye dogs
and those stupid purse dogs. I’ve seen little dogs in carriers, but never normal dogs not in carriers
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 24, 2011 5:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not really getting the Volquez hate.
Is everyone really letting his one shitty postseason start color their opinion of him that much?
I'm not seeing any Volquez hate
Just some questions about whether it’s worth it to extend him. Looking back at the thread, I think I"m the only one who’s against an extension at this point, and I don’t feel that strongly about it.
Volquez would have been victorious if Janish started at SS the first game of the postseason
stupid dusty.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
yeah that halladay guy had nothing to do with it
@AroldisChapman.....is fun to follow on twiiter!
by Dave from Louisville on Jan 22, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
my love for Volquez is much like my love for Young Robert Stubbs
Volquez is not Josh Hamilton, much like Young Robert Stubbs is not Tim Lincecum.
In both cases, I want the other guy, however in the case of Volquez WE HAD THE OTHER GUY
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
You seem to dislike an inordinate number of players on your favorite team
Arroyo, Stubbs, Volquez, Gomes, BP, Janish…..
"He’s like if Ron Gant and Eric Davis had a white baby." -- GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat on Drew Stubbs
by jch24 on Jan 24, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm really looking forward to being able to like Gomes again
when he’s platooning only against lefties.
Joey Votto on Colin Cowherd: "I don’t know who he is"
I don't dislike Janish
I just don’t think he’s a MLB starting SS
defensively, I love the kid. Offensively, he can get bent.
Same argument goes for The Franchise as well, actually. Defensively he’s like baseball porn to watch (didn’t C. Get Bent Roseshitcrants say that about Griffey’s swing?), but offensively The Franchise always leaves me wanting way fucking more….
but yeah…. Arroyo, Stubbs, Volquez, Gomes, fuck all them
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 24, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't hate on Volquez, but I don't really think an extension is the best idea with him
But I am on the other end of your spectrum. I think people are letting one good half of a season propped up with some great luck color their opinion of Volquez too much to the positive direction. Yeah, his stuff can be electric, but his command is poor, his health/durability is a big question (and maybe his attitude), and outside of that one season, the results have been inconsistent at best and poor at worst.
I don’t he will repeat his 2008 ever. It’s not because of a bad postseason start.
dude needs to go deeper into ballgames and walk less people
those are my two biggest gripes with him
and I want to see how he continues to bounce back from TJ
by Highlifeman21 on Jan 23, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
Once agin the foundation of the Earth moves as HLM2 and I agree in totallity
Fred Lewis and EdRent together are not worth One Laynce Nix
by Madville on Jan 23, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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