20/20 Reds

by Caleb on Sep 21, 2010 9:53 AM EDT

(AP Photo/Morry Gash)

With his home run yesterday Drew Stubbs became the 14th Red to join the 20 Home Run / 20 Stolen Base Club. Coupled with his 25 stolen bases he has the 32nd 20/20 season in Reds history. Here's hoping he continues to progress and improve and become a force in the Reds outfield for the next several years.

Rk	Player	HR	SB	Year ▴	Age	Tm
1	Vada Pinson	20	21	1959	20	CIN
2	Vada Pinson	20	32	1960	21	CIN
3	Frank Robinson	37	22	1961	25	CIN
4	Vada Pinson	23	26	1962	23	CIN
5	Vada Pinson	22	27	1963	24	CIN
6	Frank Robinson	21	26	1963	27	CIN
7	Frank Robinson	29	23	1964	28	CIN
8	Vada Pinson	22	21	1965	26	CIN
9	Bobby Tolan	21	26	1969	23	CIN
10	Joe Morgan	26	67	1973	29	CIN
11	Joe Morgan	22	58	1974	30	CIN
12	Joe Morgan	27	60	1976	32	CIN
13	Joe Morgan	22	49	1977	33	CIN
14	Eric Davis	27	80	1986	24	CIN
15	Eric Davis	37	50	1987	25	CIN
16	Kal Daniels	26	26	1987	23	CIN
17	Eric Davis	26	35	1988	26	CIN
18	Eric Davis	34	21	1989	27	CIN
19	Chris Sabo	25	25	1990	28	CIN
20	Eric Davis	24	21	1990	28	CIN
21	Barry Larkin	20	24	1991	27	CIN
22	Reggie Sanders	20	27	1993	25	CIN
23	Ron Gant	29	23	1995	30	CIN
24	Reggie Sanders	28	36	1995	27	CIN
25	Barry Larkin	33	36	1996	32	CIN
26	Eric Davis	26	23	1996	34	CIN
27	Mike Cameron	21	38	1999	26	CIN
28	Aaron Boone	26	32	2002	29	CIN
29	Brandon Phillips	30	32	2007	26	CIN
30	Brandon Phillips	21	23	2008	27	CIN
31	Brandon Phillips	20	25	2009	28	CIN

Tweet Comment 64 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Only the 15th since 1959, I guess

I wonder if anyone did it before then. I’d imagine so.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 20, 2010 8:48 PM EDT reply actions

yes 15th. duh

Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah

by Caleb on Sep 20, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think they have

Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah

by Caleb on Sep 20, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions

What good is a 20/20 season when Young Robert Stubbs posts a robust .750 OPS, with that sexy .321 OBP?

Seriously, get on base more, you POS….

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 20, 2010 9:22 PM EDT reply actions

Just pointing out something that hasn't been done many times

in the Reds history. Like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder

Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah

by Caleb on Sep 20, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Counting stats are teh sux

Just sayin’

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 20, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

The league OBP is .324

Sexy must mean average to you. Of course, Stubbs does that with plus speed and power. Or did you not realize that he has 25 steals and 20 home runs?

Also, there’s nothing wrong with counting stats. Like any stat they can be misused or taken out of context, but I don’t need to tell you about that.

by ken on Sep 20, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, the league average OPS this year is a 'robust' .724, and the average CF OPS is .734.

I’d say our boy is doing just fine.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Sep 21, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Those are both NL averages, BTW

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Sep 21, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Exactly

and with this being his first full season and all, there is no reason not to expect him to improve.

Joey Votto is my MVP.

by justin007000 on Sep 21, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

I'd say our boy is a POS, and we need better in CF

but that’s just me

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 22, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

let's hear it for league average from a 1st Round Draft Pick, yay!

Stubbs doesn’t have all that much power, let’s be serious.

Power is 30+ HR. Give me a love tap once he’s there.

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 22, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow.... is this an act?

The kid went 20/20 in his FIRST full year in the Bigs. He’ll either improve or he won’t, but I certainly like the starting point.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Sep 23, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Imagine how many more SBs he'd have if he actually got on base

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 23, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I will do no such thing

But seriously, this is ridiculous. How many 1st round picks do you think even make the bigs? He’s a flawed hitter, but he’s at least an average player making the minimum with significant upside.

by ken on Sep 23, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

trade stubbs and coco

for Aaron Miles!

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Sep 23, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Pisswater!

I’d honestly rather have Rosales than Stubbs

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 23, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Making the minimum, always the rallying cry for the small market teams....

I hate Young Robert Stubbs

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 23, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions

He is average with OBP in the NL

Also he in the 2nd best defensive CF in the NL when it comes to range…oh and he is only making 400,000 dollars a year and is 25 years old!

Votto for Rookie of the Year!

by Zach K on Sep 21, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

You are nothing if not predictable....

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Sep 21, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I prefer to think of myself as consistent

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 22, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

As they say

Keep fucking that chicken!

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Sep 23, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Ha, I was wondering when this would appear

by Highlifeman21 on Sep 23, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Are there any RRs who remember the early 60s Reds?

Pinson and Robinson looks like a lot of fun to watch. Maybe someone could write a book about them.

"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville

by bbjones on Sep 21, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions

I remember Pinson and Robinson.

But I forgot where I put my glasses. And where is my wallet?

by Don, the Rebel without a Blog on Sep 21, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

That's a lot of impressive company...

…and Kal Daniels

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Sep 21, 2010 6:30 AM EDT reply actions

Daniels had a better season in 1987 than Votto (though in many fewer plate appearances)

Daniels (‘87): .334/.429/.617
Votto (’10): .324/.424/.594

Okay, actually Votto was slightly better with his 170 OPS+ to Daniels’ 169 OPS+. And of course, he had 200 more PA.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Sep 21, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions

But

To be fair, Votto turned 4 at the end of the ’87 season.

by ThisonebelongstotheReds on Sep 21, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs

Daniels was the best hitter i've ever seen in a reds uni

too bad his knees gave out early on in his career.

he was kinda like a LH hitting version of Manny. plus, he was a mirror image of ManRam defensively in LF.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Sep 21, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions

also

what are the park effects for GABP vs Riverfront?

i know kal had to hit at the Astrodome, Jack Murphy, and Candlestick within the division. yuck.

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Sep 21, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

1987 Park Factor for Riverfront: 104

2010 Park Factor for GABP: 100 – though this number is technically incomplete because PFs should be calculated with a couple of years on either side of the year factored in.

You’ll recall that 1987 was also the freakishly high offensive season. NL avg R/G was 9.04 in 1987. In 1986 it was 8.36. In 1988 it was 7.76. Something weird happened that year.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Sep 21, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I remember the theory being the balls were wound tighter

From here:

Baseball had seen a drastic increase in home runs from the previous year as four players wound up with at least 40 of them: Dawson with 49; Mark McGwire of Oakland with 49; George Bell of Toronto with 47; Dale Murphy of Atlanta with 44. Many critics pointed to the baseballs being “juiced” in that were more tightly bound for maximum distance after hitting them. Some also point at the number of alleged doctored bats, but it wasn’t until September that a player had been suspended for a corked bat when Billy Hatcher of Houston received a ten-game suspension.

"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman

by jch24 on Sep 21, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Strike zone, too

Even though the official zone was shrunk after the 1987 season, there was a famous…“talking to” by the league regarding the zone. They officially took away the high strike; until the end of the 1987 season, it was knees to armpits, and it became knees to middle torso. However, the league insisted that the umps actually call these higher strikes. It actually kinda worked for a while before gradually creeping low again.

In spite of the de facto larger zone, K% went down in 1988, but so did BB% and HR; it’s possible that there was an evolutionary loop, in which the success of TTO strategies (due to balls, zone, whatever) led to them being employed more.

1987 TTO%: 27.1
1988 TTO%: 24.8

That’s one hell of a difference over at least 140000 PA each year.

I don't want to hear any weak sh*t from Jason Grilli.

by cherub_daemon on Sep 21, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

After reading those numbers, I now have the RBI Baseball music stuck in my head.

by Brian B on Sep 21, 2010 2:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Also, I do not believe they had the unbalanced schedule in 1987.

Kal played pretty much everywhere the same number of times except Riverfront (obviously). But this doesn’t really impact your comparison between GABP vs. Riverfront. So why don’t I just shut up already?

by Brian B on Sep 21, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Stubbs had been really solid in the 2nd half of the season

Even the “mainstream stats” have favored his improvement through out the season. It is great to see him and Bruce playing well!

Votto for Rookie of the Year!

by Zach K on Sep 21, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

Stubbs power has been a great surprise

I didn’t expect that when he came up, but now I am confident he can get an hr off just about any pitcher (I know he is not a 40 home run guy, but he certainly has showed a lot of power this year).

by Red_Poodle on Sep 21, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

It really seems like what we've seen this year is the true Stubbs, and the guy they thought they were getting when they drafted him

I think they spent his years in the minors trying to alter his swing and approach and turn him into something he wasn’t—that is, a .280/.370/.420 type of guy—the result was he lost his power but didn’t cut his strikeouts enough to hit for a high average.

It seems like the all or nothing, lots of power and lots of Ks guy we saw this year is his true talent level. I doubt we ever see him post a K rate below 25% over an entire season, but if he can add bunting to his repertoire he could be a serious offensive force.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Sep 21, 2010 11:38 AM EDT reply actions

Rick Sweet was on the telecast last night

during, I think, the third inning. After finishing a rounding rendition of “Love is like oxygen”, he discussed Stubbs and the improvement he has shown over his minor league numbers. The gist of it was that, for some players, it gets easier up in the big leagues because you have pitchers who are more predictable. They don’t throw breaking balls at some times. Their location is much more consistent. etc…

I’ll hang up and listen to your reply.

I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?

by supergrover on Sep 21, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

He applied the same theory to Votto, who never hit this well in the minors.

The Sweet talk was great last night!

by mdccclxix on Sep 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

The part that stuck with me is when he said something like

It’s the players who have the raw talent that seem to excel against the higher levels of competition. He said it better than my paraphrasing, but essentially he was saying that at some point the talent takes over and enables the player to really take off.

by Brian B on Sep 21, 2010 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

I do think that is to 'blame' for his lower walk rate so far.

He doesn’t have zone recognition issues, he has contact issues. So because of that it seems like pitchers choose to throw him a lot more strikes, whereas in the minors I don’t think guys can necessarily do that as well. I also think for Stubbs it’s just a comfort level of doing what he does best: swing hard, miss a lot, but hit for a decent amount of power.

I don’t buy the Votto thing. He was a great hitter in the minors, and it’s hard to OPS above 900 consistently unless you’re hitting with a ton of power. The difference between Votto now and then is primarily his power, but I don’t think that has a lot to do with the pitchers.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Sep 21, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

So if the Reds get the magic number down to 1 this weekend

should i go to Wrigelyville to see the Cubs help us eliminate the Cardinals?

Also what type of champagne should I buy?

Joey Votto is my MVP.

by justin007000 on Sep 21, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

the tingly kind

by Heeringa on Sep 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

My doctor's name is Ting Li

When you come to the fork in the road, take it.

by poojols on Sep 21, 2010 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I hope we hold on until actually clinching until the weekend is over.

I don’t know that I’ll be watching many games this weekend.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Sep 21, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

i could be there to see the Cardinals get eliminated

Imagine being eliminated by losing to the 2010 Cubs, that is being kicked while you are down.

not quite as cool as watching the Reds that day, but still.

I would even consider wearing a Cubs hat.

Joey Votto is my MVP.

by justin007000 on Sep 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Hell, if the Cardinals get eliminated by the Cubs, I might wear a Cubs hat around Mizzou campus.

Along with my Reds hoodie of course.

"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."

by crolfer on Sep 21, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

You're a grad student, right?

Andre.

by ken on Sep 21, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah, i will probably buy the cheapest i see

but still i feel that celebrations will be in order.

Joey Votto is my MVP.

by justin007000 on Sep 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Mums

"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki

by GrooveLeg on Sep 21, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Listen very closely to me

TAKE A CAMERA. TAKE PICTURES. POST THEM HERE.

"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman

by jch24 on Sep 21, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

of the Cardinals being eliminated at Wrigley Field?

or me buying champagne?

Joey Votto is my MVP.

by justin007000 on Sep 21, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Both, of course

"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman

by jch24 on Sep 21, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

ED

Eric Davis 27- 80 1986 – Not too many 20 – 80 guys either

If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter.
Bob Uecker

by Madville on Sep 21, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions

just one other

Rickey Henderson had 28 and 87, also in 1986.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Sep 21, 2010 3:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

not too many 10-90 guys either

just rickey and rock, right?

"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow

by obc2 on Sep 21, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Surely Lou Brock could manage ten home runs?

(checking…)

Weirdly, Brock only stole more than 90 bases once in a season (118 in 1974) and he only hit three home runs that year. Though he did have over ten home runs in seven other seasons. Ty Cobb only stole more than 90 bases once also (96 in 1915), and he also only had three home runs that season. He only hit ten home runs or more in two seasons.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 21, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions