Red Reposter - Hit King, or King of Wishful Thinking?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 13, 2010 11:24 AM EDT
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Red Reposter's Full Count, brought to you by Dracula's Castle of Fried Chicken and Waffles. Looking for a meal to fill you up late at night without emptying your wallet? You can count on the Count! "My fried chicken is too die for! Bluh!" - 1.318 - Jay Bruce's OPS in the 19 games before tweaking his oblique two weeks ago. After scoring 5 total runs against the putrid Pirates rotation this weekend we could really use another big bat in the lineup.
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Saturday marked the ceremonial anniversary of Pete Rose's record-breaking hit #4192
The Reds and MLB officially honored him before the game in a quaint and carefully orchestrated ceremony. After the game though, Rose and friends convened at the Hollywood Casino (/rolls eyes) for a roast of the Hit King. To the shock of everyone present, Rose was contrite, humble, and repentant. "Out of left field," said (Tom) Browning, shaking his head. "I didn't see it coming." Pete - "You can talk about hits and runs and championship games . . . (But) I want my legacy to be (that of) somebody who came forward. If anybody has a problem here today, come forward. Don't hide it . . . You can run, but you can't hide. If I can help a young kid to know what I went through, maybe I can prevent them from going through the same thing. I got suspended 21 years ago. For 10-12 years, I kept it inside . . . That's changed. I'm a different guy."
I've been pretty dismissive of Pete many times in this space. As a Reds fan in my mid-20s, I've only ever known the surly, stubborn, jerk Pete Rose hawking signatures at card shows and car dealership openings. I never saw him play, and for those of an older generation, that makes all the difference in the world. There is still a vociferous contingent of Reds fans who want little else than to see Pete in the Hall of Fame. My guess is that this expression of contrition will change a few minds regarding his character (I definitely see him in a more flattering light this morning, though I'm sure many others just think he was conniving again), but is 21 years too late to change any official position regarding his status with MLB. I hope Pete can eventually come to terms with that. -
Francisco Cordero blew 2 saves over the weekend. Nick Masset blew another.
Luckily the Reds were able to win 2 of the 3, but all those blown saves from the bullpen's supposed 2 best pitchers (against the Pirates, fer cryin' out loud) is definitely a cause for concern. It's kinda too late to shake things up (not that Dusty would anyway), but if you take a deep breath and maybe a xanax or two things don't look so bad. Come playoff time Cordero, Masset, Rhodes, and Chapman will make for a formidable quartet of arms the likes of which are difficult to match. Alls they gotta do is take care of business in the mean time and make sure there is a playoffs. -
I had always felt a kinship with your division neighbors to the north, the Milwaukee Brewers
I know many here share that sentiment. After reading about this stunt though, I'm almost ready to go all rogue on you guys and become a full-blown Brewers fan instead of just a well-wisher. Someone (no one is saying who at the time I wrote this) accomplished their Project Mayhem assignment of the day, sneaking a fake press release into the press box at Miller Park. The press release was for a new book by Cubs GM Jim Hendry titled "Building a 90-Loss Team for Dummies". Not satisfied with such a simple prank, they also provided in-depth talking points for the book, including chapter titles: "Why I signed Milton Bradley", "Why I released Casey McGehee only to see him hit 20 home runs and drive in nearly 100 runs for a division rival", "Why I hired former Pittsburgh general manager Dave Littlefield, the man who helped make the Pirates what they are today, as my special assistant", and many more. I. Love. This.
The Reds clubhouse these days more resembles Omaha Beach than a major league facility
Arthur Rhodes has been nursing plantar fasciitis for the better part of the season, Orlando Cabrera's oblique is still not 100% and neither is Jay Bruce's or Jim Edmonds'. Brandon Phillips' wrist is very obviously still bothering him from when it got beaned with a fastball a few weeks back, Chris Heisey has a sore biceps, Laynce Nix has still yet to run on his sprained ankle, and that's just the position players. Thank God for Joey Votto, eh?
Are you tired of watching your team play with only 3 outfielders?
Of course you are! Luckily, Jay Bruce is all but ready to return to the lineup. Dusty says he won't be fully 100% healed until he can rest in the offseason, but this is the stretch run and we need The Next Big Thing back in the lineup in the worst way. He should be back in RF on Tuesday if all goes to plan.
Aaron Harang was official demoted to bullpen duty when Edinson Volquez started on Saturday (and tossed a gem)
As is his demeanor, he took the reassignment professionally and honorably. "Nobody’s really happy about their roles getting switched," Harang said. "It’s part of the game. I’m going to go down there and pitch when I need to pitch. There’s really not much more to say about it. I’ll pitch when I’m called on to pitch, and try to give us a shot to win." It seems certain that the Reds will not exercise his $12.75 mil option for next season, and with so many quality arms in the bullpen now and for the playoffs it seems unlikely that he will pitch many more times this season, if at all.
Here's a Hall o' Famer from the Hall o' Famer himself
Hal spoke with Joey Votto about their shared idol, Ted Williams. Here's a quote, but be sure to click through and read the whole thing. The intro is a good 'un: "When I was young, I just couldn’t help to gravitate toward the greatest of all time," said Votto. "I couldn’t relate to Babe Ruth - not that I CAN relate to Ted Williams - but there was something different about him. He was a legend and a great American Hero, even though I’m not American. He was just an amazing person to read about and to watch film of and to hear stories about. I don’t know what to tell you other than I wish I had got to see him." Joey says he's read every book their is about Williams. And you know what? It shows.
Ol' Dusty clocks in at #4 on Jon Heyman's manager of the year list
"The Reds, who lead the NL Central by five games, are maybe the second biggest surprise after the Padres, but perhaps they shouldn't be. They do have talent. But Baker, who's already won three Manager of the Year awards, is doing some of his best work this year. The Reds lead the majors with a .989 fielding percentage. They are third in the majors with 39 come-from-behind wins. They also have been among baseball's most consistent teams, posting winning records in each of the season's first five months for the first time since 1979. The Reds have some magic going -- and their magic number of 19 to win their division is the lowest of any NL team."
Ask Hal:
Q You have been almost 100 percent correct lately on your predictions on Reds Live, so will Dusty Baker re-sign with the Reds or end up in Los Angeles? — Cheri, Tipp City.
A As Baker said, "I didn’t come here to build something and then leave." Despite the offer for only a one-year extension, my guess is Baker returns next year. Tony La Russa, with all his success in St. Louis, signed a one-year extension for 2010, so why not Baker?
Q How can you and other writers be so calm after the last disastrous road trip – and I’m not talking about the standings. I’m talking about how they’ll do in the playoffs? — Dave, Franklin.
A Step back. Take a deep breath. We’re paid handsomely, no matter how homely we are, to be cool, calm and protective. Well, actually it is called objectivity. No cheering in the press box and all that stuff. So ... objectively, the Reds have nearly three weeks to get healthy, shake the cobwebs, hone the skills and get after it in the postseason. Being in the postseason for the first time in 15 years should inject enough adrenaline and excitement to get them performing back on a high level again.
Reds Fan Confidence Poll
Last tallied on 09/15.
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Comments
Yeah, the Omaha Beach reference really isn't cool
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
But it's accurate
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll just disagree and not comment further on this
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
I used to live in France and I've been to the beach at Sainte-Honoraine-des-Pertes
It’s haunted with the tragedy of the D-Day invasion and I appreciate the significance.
I don’t think anyone’s trying to be trite or disrespectful.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
i disagree.
there were roughly a half million deaths at omaha beach in an event that determined the history of the world. the reds clubhouse is a cushy lounge for a bunch of guys who make a lot of money playing a game which happens to entertain a lot of people. they don’t really resemble one another.
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
would it be okay to call the clubhouse a M*A*S*H unit?
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Could we get Alan Alda to be our team physician?
I feel like he might be a better option.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
i would prefer Donald Sutherland.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with andro-let's stick with Alan Alda
I’m too young to have ever seen M*A*S*H, but I appreciate that Alda’s character’s name was Hawkeye.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm younger than you and I've seen MASH
And Donald Sutherland may also be associated with Hawkeye.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I grew up in the middle of nowhere, Iowa
I didn’t see cable TV until I was in college, and I was only 5 when MASH went off the air on the major network.
And Donald Sutherland freaks me out. I’d rather have Alda.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
congratulations
i’m proud that you grew up in Iowa and didn’t become a Cubs fan.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
My mom's a Cubs fan, and she turns into a crazy Cub freak at Wrigley
I knew I didn’t want to be like her.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
really? Whats wrong with Donald Sutherland?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
So was that guy from Airplane!
and that other guy from Airplane!
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
Remember the move Backdraft?
He creeped me out and I’ve never looked at him the same since.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't actually seen the movie, but I love Alan Alda the mostest.
He reminds me of my dad.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
not Iowa related though
Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah
the Go West one was
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
one of the best songs in Pretty Woman
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Get over it
I know you will.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretending our ship's not sinking.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Sep 13, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched that video just the other day
It’s one of my absolute favorites. Nothing else so fully encapsulates the early 90s. Two unaware British guys with “funky” dancing? Sideways L.A. Kings hat? Collarless shirts buttoned to the neck? T-shirts tucked into jeans? Random zoo animals and a pope impersonator? The dying throes of Phil Collins’s influence? They’re all there and more!
Let’s all watch it now and enjoy it again, shall we?
by Brendanukkah on Sep 13, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
that guy
Looks like Al Leiter.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Yeah, I gotta say if Bataan death march is off-limits, then Omaha Beach might ought to be as well.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
Oh, my bad, I thought you literally meant the Reds clubhouse looks like Omaha Beach.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
I see, so we're not allowed hyperbole and sarcasm on RR anymore?
No one sent me the memo. Gotcha, I’ll find another site then.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, sarcasm is DEFINITELY not allowed.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
sarcasm is now the worst thing in the universe on RR!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 13, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So I should probably not nudge CoCo Cordero and remind him that the theme song to MASH is called "Suicide is Painless?"
Someone might misunderstand my intentions and all. ;-)
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm assuming that your intentions would be to encourage Cordero to commit suicide.
What other possible meaning could you have?
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
See, you missed the sarcasm
That’s why I said I shouldn’t say it.
Sigh.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I always miss sarcasm, because I am never ever sarcastic.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
by andromache on Sep 13, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I took that to mean
you wanted someone to kill CoCo because he doesn’t deserve a painless death. I’m the site manager, so that will be the official meaning of your statement.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Well then, the Manager has spoken!
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to do the same to Boone while watching the games ..
… but with a bunch of FU’s mixed in …
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
Uhg,
this is what happens when lose to the pirates, we start argueing about being polite.
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 13, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it's already been well-established that the Baker contract offer is NOT for just one year?
Why is Hal furthering the misconception that it is?
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
why did hal report the Reds hired Jim Beattie to be their GM in 2006?
why did Hal report that Bailey for Dye was a done deal?
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
As A Reds Fan In Milwaukee...
As a Reds Fan in Milwaukee, there really is a special kinship between the two teams. Sure, Brewers fans are a little delusional at times (whoo! Derrick Turnbow!), but they’re fun. And we share that same bond of hating the Cubs for being big market and still failing, and hating the Cardinals for always seeming to have the right pieces. And unlike the Pirates or Astros, not totally outcasts in the division.
I enjoy my trips to Miller Park, even if the Reds aren’t playing there.
Mike Lincoln should have been released on June 8.
by Senor Pez on Sep 13, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's pronounced "mill-e-wah-que" which is Algonquin for "the good land."
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Does this guy know how to party, or what?
WYSIWIG
by Excalib8 on Sep 13, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Land of the Good Earth"
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Sep 13, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't shop at the Bay View Pik and Save do you?
I see a guy wearing a Reds hat there now and then.
that's not pete rose in the picture holding the child ...
… it’s his $25 Rent-a-girlfriend
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
wait, really?
if that’s not Pete Rose then they must go to the same hair stylist.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 13, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm still waiting on the phone call saying i have playoff tickets ready to purchase ...
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
If I knew your phone number, you would reeeeeeaaaally hate me
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
I bet those Project Mayhem could help you with that
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Sep 13, 2010 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but why would you need to know my phone number for me to reeeeeeaaaaly hate you?
do i need my sarcasm font here?
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
Aw, I thought you liked me!
I’mma go home and cry now……
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
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"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Sep 13, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't find that book on amazon to pre-order.
I am desperate to know why Hendry signed Milton Bradley.
10 points for proper use of sarcasm font
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
If you go rouge on us
won’t that make you just more of a Red?
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
A Bat-en-Rouge
should be the official fancy pants name for a AAA call-up.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate you
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
i hate hate
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
Haters gonna hate hate?
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
Pete Rose
I was really caught off guard by how sincere he seemed in the video clips. For a long time I was a huge advocate of his reinstatement but that had waned the last few years due to his behavior and attitude. But now he seems to have really changed. Repented if you will. Let him back in
Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah
and it is hard to believe he is really 69 for me
Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah
Plenty of Pete's stuff is already in the HOF
No need to actually enshrine him
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
do it the day after he dies
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that's more cold then a complete ban
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
I think that's how it's going to go down
He’ll get into the HOF, posthumously.
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
I don't know, why?
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
no shirt, no shoes, no hall
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Sep 13, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Isn't that a line from an Alanis Morrissette song?
“Got into the Hall of Fayyy-eeeee-aaaayme, the day after he died.”
by Gapper on Sep 13, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I can't disagree more with the reinstatement for Rose.
He is a low-life gambler who held his roast at a Casino. Sort of like having your AA meeting at the Jack Daniels distilling HQ. If the BBWA wants to let him in the Hall, then I’m all for it. But, reinstatement to MLB is my nightmare.
First, the rule says life-time ban, not “ban until you say you are sorry”
Second, he’s only sorry enough to write his next book, where he can finally admit that he bet on the Reds to lose.
Third, and most emotional and most parochial and least ostensibly rational, is he would be back managing this team into the ground inside of two years. Marty already waxes poetic about having him in uniform and in the dugout. Personally, the only time I saw him play was in 1985/1986, but I did experience him as a manager and he was absolutely terrible. He understood nothing about pitching and his in-game strategy was miserable, Off the field, he was a no-show according to his players at the time, holed up in the office with his gambling friends. Worst, he was bulletproof. No ONE could fire Rose in Cincinnati; only Bart and Fay could get rid of him and I thank him for it.
So, I say Pete should go to Cooperstown and stop hawking baseballs and bleached blond girlfriends and actually get into the HOF, but no Reds fan should ever want him reinstated.
by timb116 on Sep 13, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i say put him in after he dies
everybody who is baseball fan knows who pete rose is and what he did. The Hall of Fame is a museum and a public history of the baseball, and it is designed to maintain a public memory of baseball. Pete Rose’s accomplishments should be a part of that, but the worthless sonuvabitch shouldn’t be honored with it while he is still a live.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with that, Justin
Point is, I love baseball and I love baseball history, but the HOF and who is in it is about a privileged class of baseball writers wanking about their privilege, IMHO. Rose belongs in the pantheon of baseball greats and I just don’t care when he gets there
I'm not a fan of Pete
But waiting until he dies seems cruel. I don’t think he should be involved in the game (because he can’t be trusted), but “now that he’s dead, we can put him in the hall without having to bring him any joy” is just mean.
Maybe I’m just not a mean person, even if I routinely curse Dusty Baker and all his descendants to burn in the fires of hell. But I just don’t see what would be so terible about letting the guy experience the induction ceremony.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They won't let him enjoy the induction ceremony because that means he'd have to be allowed to speak
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
I agree with this.
I don’t like Pete, but he is a whole person, and I think it’s unfair to laud his baseball accomplishments, and include that in our museums, while rejecting and punishing him for his moral failures.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
ty cobb was a whole person
and he killed another human being. i realize you can’t go back and take him out because of this, but the hall of fame is not for people, its for players. i dont see why he cant remained banned from working in the game but go into the hall
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand
I personally believe that if Pete shouldn't be in, Cobb shouldn't be in.
Though, of course, you’re right that you can’t retroactively take him out.
I also think there’s a difference in not honoring him for his achievement because of his moral failings, and not allowing him to do further damage to the game by participating in it.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
To my mind, Rose's punishment has a lot to do with the dysfunction of large
organizations. I think very few people actually support the absolutism of Pete Rose being dead to baseball forever, but there’s been no compromise, no conditional reinstatement, no road to redemption, because of the lack of continuity in leadership and lack of incentives to offer him some reprieve. So we’ve come to except Pete as a persona non-grata because it’s now Tradition.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Singling out Rose to be baseball's offical pariah and whipping boy seems excessive
and hypocritical at best. Certainly, Rose was not some kind-hearted gentleman who kept good company, but neither were scores of racist, gambling, cheating bastards enshrined in the Hall or otherwise celebrated from Rose’s era.
Whether his baseball achievements should be officially celebrated – and whether he’s able to participate in baseball in some official capacity during his Golden Years – has to turn on his crimes against the game. It’s pretty hard to argue that a lifetime banishment, especially for someone who put baseball above practically anything else in his life, is fair treatment – whether relative to other punishments the league has meted out, or in some global conception of the “right.”
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It says on the bulletin board in every major league clubhouse that if you bet on baseball, you're out
Seems the punishment fits the crime, moral relativism notwithstanding.
but, I do like your version of the HOF: “come and see the gambling, racist shitheads who hit a round ball with a round bat really good” better than the hagiography that is done on some of these fellas
Was the liftime ban for gambling an official policy when Rose
was playing/managing in the late 80s? This is an honest question, because I really don’t know.
Policies can always be changed with forward motion. But one thing you can’t do is impose a punishment ex post facto.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yes it was
In 1927, Landis proposed a set of rules about baseball and gambling, all of which were adopted in principle and remain on the books today. Among them, a one-year suspension for rewarding players from another team for beating a third team (this was a common practice prior to 1920), a one-year suspension for betting on games “in connection with which the bettor had no duty to perform,” and “permanent ineligibility for betting any sum whatsoever upon any ball game in connection with which the bettor has any duty to perform.”
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
That’s pretty clear.
Though baseball should be under no duress to follow 80-year old policies from Kenasaw Mountain Landis.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but where do we define permanent inelegibility?
I mean ineligible to manage from the dugout, or play again. But does it really seem right that it takes an act of God for Pete Rose to be allowed to show up to celebrate great milestones for the Reds and baseball?
I think he has done his penance and should be allowed to be “permanently retired” from baseball, but allowed to say a few words on the field when celebrating one of baseball’s greatest records or stop by the radio booth when he’s in town without having to get down on his knees for Selig.
what has he done to deserve it?
he violated the cardinal rule of baseball. He then went god knows how many years saying he was framed, then he writes a book for profit saying he bet on baseball. He also sings baseball’s “I’m sorry I bet on baseball”-Pete Rose
I could forgive him for violating the iron clad rule of betting on baseball if he had owned up to it in the 1980s. I am a forgiving person, I honestly think there are opportunities to make most things right. But Pete Rose’s actions rather than making me view him as a tragic and flawed figure, make me think he is an asshole.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
So why put him in the Hall of Fame at all?
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
but Cobb never bet on baseball
Sure, Cobb is/was one of the worst people to ever play, but he sure as Hell is one of the best players ever.
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Cobb almost certainly bet on baseball
And may well have thrown games. Betting on baseball, in Cobb’s time, was as common as steroid abuse in the 90’s. Cobb was accused of throwing games, but the league pretty much swept it under the carpet.
He almost certainly bet on games, but it was not a banned activity at that time.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Cobb first played in 1905, so he played 15 years without that rule in effect.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Sep 13, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Then good for Cobb
he’s still a better ballplayer than Pete Rose, and that’s all that matters in my world.
I cannot stand Pete Rose
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
the full story
there is nothing so disgusting that Cobb didn’t dabble with it
From Wikipedia
Cobb finally called it quits from a 22-year career as a Tiger in November 1926. He announced his retirement and headed home to Augusta, Georgia.7 Shortly thereafter, Tris Speaker also retired as player-manager of the Cleveland team. The retirement of two great players at the same time sparked some interest, and it turned out that the two were coerced into retirement because of allegations of game-fixing brought about by Dutch Leonard, a former pitcher of Cobb’s.7
Leonard accused former pitcher and outfielder Smoky Joe Wood and Cobb of betting on a Tiger-Cleveland game played in Detroit on September 25, 1919, in which they allegedly orchestrated a Detroit victory to win the bet. Leonard claimed proof existed in letters written to him by Cobb and Wood.7 Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis held a secret hearing with Cobb, Speaker, and Wood.7 A second secret meeting amongst the AL directors led to Cobb and Speaker resigning with no publicity; however, rumors of the scandal led Judge Landis to hold additional hearings.7 Leonard subsequently refused to appear at the hearings. Cobb and Wood admitted to writing the letters, but they claimed it was a horse racing bet, and that Leonard’s accusations were in retaliation for Cobb’s having released Leonard from the Tigers to the minor leagues.7 Speaker denied any wrongdoing.7
On January 27, 1927, Judge Landis cleared Cobb and Speaker of any wrongdoing because of Leonard’s refusal to appear at the hearings.7 Landis allowed both Cobb and Speaker to return to their original teams, and both became free agents.7 Speaker signed with the Washington Senators for 1927; Cobb signed with the Philadelphia Athletics. Speaker then joined Cobb in Philadelphia for the 1928 season. Cobb said he came back only to seek vindication, and so that he could say he left baseball on his own terms.
his acomplishments should be remembered
in 60 years when Rose is long dead, and most if not everybody who saw him play are dead, that should be memorialized, simply because he set a record for the most hits.
But like I said, Rose has done nothing to help his cause at all.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Either he belongs in the Hall or he doesn’t. Why shouldn’t his accomplishments be remembered before he’s dead?
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
they already are
his accomplishments still strongly exist in our minds.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why admit anyone to the hall of fame before they're dead.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the kipper-snacks.
Revenge
It’s the only reason to wait until he is dead – to “get” him for betting on the game.
I think the pound of flesh has been extracted. In fact, if the voters don’t want to elect him, I respect that. But not allowing the vote is unfair, and waiting until he is dead to reinstate him is just cruel.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
he has done nothing since 1989 to deserve a second chance
did he break the cardinal sin of baseball?
has he shown any serious remorse for this since 1989?
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why put him in after he is dead?
If you don’t believe he should ever be in the HOF – fine, I can respect that. But to leave him out until he dies, and then elect him, is just petty and mean spirited.
And I don’t know how anyone can defend the “Pete Rose Rule”. The decision of who goes in to the HOF had always been left up to the voters (BBWAA, Old-Timer Committee) until Pete came along. Why can’t Pete get a vote like Shoeless Joe? Is betting on baseball worse than throwing the World Series? Really?
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But why is he the only one that the BBWAA was not allowed to vote on?
Shoeless Joe, all those other guys – they were eligible for the HOF for decades. Pete is the only guy where they said “We can’t let them vote on this”. That is nonsense.
I’m not a Pete fan, and I support the ban, but I never liked the fact that they passed a rule, AFTER he was banned, specifically to target him. I’m not a big fan of Ex Post Facto legislation.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure how one sings a baseball
.. but that’s got to be another argument for putting him in the hall!
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I don't really buy that there's some setof sacrosanct "cardinal rules" in baseball
There are policies – and policies change over time. They’re re-written, bent and unevely applied. Pete Rose did a bad thing and he was punished. But there’s such a thing as a pardon, a reprieves, a commutation. It happens in civil society from Kiwanis Clubs all the way up to the Federal Government. We can’t really probe whether Pete truly compromised his performance on the field, nor whether he’s really sorry deep down in his soul.
But I’m pretty sure letting an old man die without a little taste of mercy is excessive. There have been wife-beaters and men who have committed violent crimes and inhumane acts, that have been less publicly outcast in professional sports. It’s not that their punishment was completely appropriate and Rose deserves a full pardon – it’s likely somewhere in between the poles.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree
gambling did as much harm to baseball as labor unrest, and more than steroids. One of the key reasons the Baseball Czar was created was the integrity of the game was in serious question, and it was corrupt as all hell.
Of course today the size of contracts should make gambling a problem of the past, but for the sake of integrity, when there is somebody with a gambling problem, they should be tossed out.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I get where you're coming from...
But until the day someone shows me proof that he bet against the Reds, I think I could have swallowed a substantial period ban and a substantial gambling addiction rehab program. Maybe even a ban from a player or manager role where he could affect the day-to-day operations. I would absolutely love to have Pete Rose as our color guy on TV or radio.
Again the whole question of integrity
Lets say he doesn’t have money on today’s game, but he had money on yesterday’s game and he has money on tomorrow’s game.
It is possible that he may hold back his best reliever, who pitched in yesterday’s game that he had money on, not for strategic reasons, but so he can be rested for tomorrow’s game which he has money on.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not player gambling threatens the integrity of outcomes
in baseball isn’t really the issue here. I get that it’s bad and that it deserves clear and decisive punitive action. But it’s a pretty outrageous claim to make that Pete Rose’s gambling addiction was on par with collusion, steroids… or the 1919 World Series, for that matter.
I think it’s become trendy to dismiss the steroid controversy as just a creation of moralizing by out-of-touch baseball writers. But baseball players were gaining a competitive advantage from doing something illegal and taking action other players weren’t willing to take. Pete Rose’s gambling, and its link to his on-field performance, seems more tenuous to me. Both are serious infractions – but how do you assign the severity of punishment?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right on one account
Pete’s offenses were WAY worse than steroids (not even against the rules at the time) or collusion, for which the players were given justice
and trust me Rijo
if sometime within a year or two after the ban came down, if rose would have came out and said
“I screwed up, I bet on baseball. I understand that my actions bring mine and the game’s integrity into question. For that I apologize to all my loyal fans. I never bet against the Reds, but still my actions violated the one cardinal-sin of the game. I have a problem, and I’m working to get past my gambling issues, and I still want to be active in baseball. I understand that due to my actions I may never be able to manage or coach again, but I still want to be involved”.
I would agree with you, maybe not as a coach, manager, or anything like that, but as a guest coach in spring training, a tv guy, an ambassador to the game, etc.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My position certainly wouldn't be for granting full
unconditional reinstatement. And not in small part because I think he’d do more harm than good for the Reds.
But I don’t think there’s an expiration date on contrition. That’s just a personal preference. He’s been stubborn, prideful, deceptive about it. But this all seems par for the course with disgraced public figures. What’s different about Rose? His unwillingness to apologize has been punished with the continuation – and solidification – of his ban.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This is post-Nixon and pre-Clinton
It wasn’t clear yet that public figures could apologize and the public would welcome them back with open arms.
You didn’t get that at all from what he said on the screen Saturday? Instead putting Rose in the stockades in the public square for the rest of his life, he could be baseball’s sounding board for how bad he screwed up if Selig would just sit down and say… “Pete, here’s the rules. 1. You go to gambling rehab for at least 6 months. I don’t care if you think you have a problem or not. 2. You never take another step in a casino again. 3. You don’t so much as sneeze in a direction of a bookie. 4. You give a full Mea Culpa if there’s anything left to confess. 5. You realize that MLB and me, personally, are putting are posterior’s on the line for you. 6. Your days in the dugout are over. You will have no access to day-to-day operations, but if a GM wants to hire you as a special advisor or if you want to serve as a broadcaster or public persona for the Reds, we would love to have you, so long as you follow all of these rules.”
Selig would be insane to do that
I don’t think Pete would agree to those terms, and if he did, he could not live up to them.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
he has never admitted he has a problem
thus he will never try to fix his gambling issues.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes you think that?
Selig comes off as the great guy and they hire a private eye to follow Pete Rose every step he makes for the next 10 years…
Rose would have a choice as clear as night and day. I think he chooses baseball.
did he choose baseball in the 80s?
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
most offenders do go back
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the most sensible thing is a ban from playing/managing the game...
But I think after 20 years in the desert (literally…signing baseballs), I think all the other aspects of the ban are ridiculous. The guy’s been mass-producing “Sorry I bet on baseball” autograph’s for years now. Just make any public appearance include a heart-felt PSA like he gave Saturday. Frankly, it humanizes him into somebody who let a mistake ruin his life and one that, but for the grace of god, goes any of us.
Other aspects being...
He can’t speak live at his ceremony; it will probably be the same dog-and-pony show for him to come back for the 40th anniversary of 1975 in 5 years; he can’t go into the radio or TV booth without the blessing of his holiness, Bud Selig, etc.
This is basically my stance
No direct influence on the game, beyond the capacity in which Joe Morgan currently serves. And the Reds certainly don’t have to bring him on. He’s the one entity Rose has arguably tainted the most. And yet Cincinnati loves him.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's pretty clear
that his gambling problem is out of control. He knew the rules. That’s why he denied that he bet on baseball for so long.
So if he knew the consequences, why keep gambling? Because he couldn’t help himself.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I wish we could have had the Cardinals as the opponent for the #4192 celebration
With Mark McGwire sitting in the opposite dugout… biggest hypocrism in the history of sports!!!!
is it though?
for as much as we discuss steroids, it is part of the competitive nature in sport. People used steroids to make themselves better players.
Pete Rose’s gambling may have had a negative effect on his team.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a substantial character flaw... just like alcoholism, drug addiction, etc.
Do you think Strawberry’s drug problem didn’t hurt his play on the field and thus, hurt his team? If gambling wasn’t the death-sin of baseball, Pete would have been shipped off to rehab, said his sorries, and be back in baseball as a manager, advisor to the GM, broadcaster, etc.
there is a fine line between drug and gambling problems
drug problems may effect a players on the field abilities, but it won’t make them change who they play the game for monetary gain.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but
I think there’s a good reason for gambling to be the death-sin of baseball. ‘Roids and coke aren’t even in the same ballpark, so to speak.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
agreed
if Mark McGwire becomes a manager, people will not question his wanting to win every single ball game.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's an owner's choice whether they want to take a risk on a person
After they’ve served a reasonable punishment. But put them on a tight leash. If they don’t walk the tight and narrow, you can them.
but if rose falls of the wagon again
questions of integrity are brought up again, and it hurts more than just the team that hired him.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Falls off the wagon again?
Wouldn’t he have to get on the wagon first, before he could fall off?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
It hurt his team, but no one watching thought the game was a charade
how can people not see the difference? Drugs are bad for the player and a violation of their contract…..gambling makes people look at the game and say “who cares, it’s all scripted”
Rose's accomplishments are already in the HOF
Plenty of memorabilia, stats and what not.
He’s not in there as a man or player, and I think that’s a good distinction
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i can see that too
i’ve never been to the HOF so i have no idea what they in reference to him.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
everything you say is true
with the added caveate of him still not admitting he has a gambling problem. It’s sad. There will be no potential for reenstatement to baseball without this admission and corresponding treatment and monitoring.
for a second i thought, "what the hell did john fay have to do with getting rid of rose?"
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
No way he manages again
Even if reinstated – the dude is almost 70.
I agree that he should not be reinstated. That said, I never agreed with the “Pete Rose Rule” the added to the HOF. Prior to Rose, banned players (like Shoeless Joe) could be elected to the HOF – by either the BBWAA or the Old-Timers. It just never happened, because not enough voters felt Jackson (or any other banned player) deserved it.
Rose should be afforded the same opportunity – if the voters feel he is worthy, he should be elected. He is, essentially, the only player in major league history who the voters were never permitted to consider.
I am kind of a weird Reds fan when it comes to Rose. I am the right age to have been one of his supporters, but I never liked him. I moved to Cincinnati in 1977, and became a fan of Griffey (because he was left-handed, like me). Rose was the first Reds player to bolt for free agency/more money, so he pissed off my young self, and he always seemed kind of abrasive.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
I have heard tons of media types wax wistful or poetic (or whatever other adjective I want to place after "wax"
It would happen, because the ticket sales would be worth it
Who is the oldest manager ever?
I guess Trader Jack managed in his 70’s, and Connie Mack was probably 107 when he finally let go, but I just can’t imagine Pete having the energy and faculties to actually do the job – he doesn’t look all that healthy to me.
The immense distraction would be bad for the team, and I doubt any sensible owner would allow it.
Marty may wish for it, but Marty’s wishes are rarely the path followed by the Reds (thankfully).
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You had to have seen Pete play as ,amy times as I did...on TV and in person to understand the sentiment of enshrining him as a player,
He was an OK manager, except that he was betting during his management tenure.
Yes he’s uncouth, petty, arrogant and a jerk (come to think of it so is John Bench)…but he played the game better than 99% of those who have ever donned a uniform.
If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter.
Bob Uecker
He wasn't okay, Mads
He took a team with more talent than this team and did nothing with it for 4 years. Not winning that division was a crime against baseball. Daniels, Larkin, Davis, O’Neill, Bell/Sabo, and a bullpen of hammers.
I understand people loved how he played, but don’t gloss over his absolute suckiness as a manager
I wasn't paying attention at the time
but how did he manage to squander talent? Did he play the wrong players, not motivate them, pay them to throw games, or what?
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
He was an abomination with the bullpen
he let Franco throw three innings once (over 50 pitches) in Montreal. He didn’t coach them or bring a semblance of order to the clubhouse. Tracy Jones, himself an abomination of a human being and a liker of Pete, said his managing philosophy was to throw the equipment bag on the field and tell the team to play ball.
I understand a billion times more about baseball than I did then (when I was 17), but measured from a talent perspective, the man had the talent that Sweet Lou had in 1990 and he experienced 9except for Eric’s frequent injuries) and pretty healthy team. He did almost nothing with it, especially in 1988 when the Dodgers won the division with Orel Hershiser and half of Kirk Gibson. No way that team should have beat a team with the Reds talent
Please
This is hyperbole at best, and a lie at worst.
Daniels: Played one full season for the Reds.
Larkin: Was not the full-time SS until ‘87; wasn’t any good until ‘88.
Davis: Didn’t have over 200 PA until ‘86.
O’Neill: Didn’t have over 200 PA until ’88.
Sabo: Rookie in ’88
Bell: Played 2 full seasons in Cinci, ’86 and ’87.
And you don’t mention the starters:
Danny Jackson had 1 decent year in Cinci ‘88.
Tom Browning was Bronson Arroyo (league-average innings-eater) with a perfect game….as long as you ignore Arroyo ’06, ’07, and ’09.
Mario Soto was done.
Jose Rijo didn’t come to Cinci til ‘88.
The ’88 team had 54 starts from guys with a worse ERA+ than Homer Bailey’s 89; the ’87 team had no starters with 20 starts and an ERA+ of 100.
Finally, if he failed because did nothing with “a bullpen of hammers”, how can you also damn him for (evidently) overusing Franco (who must not have been hurt too badly; he had another 726 appearances after leaving the Reds).
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
by sidnancy on Sep 13, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because he also had Williams and Dibble and Rob Murphy and Mario Soto and nick esasky and Dave Collins and Dave Parker
Jackson went 23-8 in 1988, while Browning crunched innings. Meanwhile in the bullpen, the best arm on the staff languished in long relief. Or, maybe Rose never heard of Jose Rijo?
I mean, it’s pretty obvious, you know since I mentioned 1986-1988 that I met teams with a guy who went 20/80 and then almost 30/50 (davis) with Larkin and an OBP machine of Daniels, etc
Maybe you can explain how Lou picked up these same players and won with them 2 years later
It's funny, but I dislike Bench a lot more than Rose
When I was a kid, I loved Johnny, and never really cared for Pete (and really disliked him after he went to Philly). But then I grew up, and got a chance to meet Johnny Bench and his friends.
Jesus, that man is a 24-carat, pure shithead. Pete is a nice guy compared to Johnny.
I wonder if there’s a college study that shows how exposing my generation to Three’s Company set gender relations back approximately 715 years
by RoastBeefKazenzakis on Sep 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
1 difference between Pete & Bench?
Pete ain’t gay.
Although Bench was a much better player than Rose, so gimme the gay guy any day
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 13, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I make no joke about Johnny Bench being gay
and I make no joke about him being a better ballplayer than Pete Rose
Serious question, most successful/best gay athlete of all time?
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 14, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Babe Dedrickson
"Nothing wakes you up on a cold January morning like hot horse-piss." - Kevin Mitchell is Batman
Mark Tewksbury?
Canadian Swimmer – set 7 WRs during 1992 Olympics
Billy Jean King? Although she’s technically only bisexual
Greg Louganis? 2 time Gold Medalist in 1988
Amelie Mauresmo? Has she really won anything?
Martina Navratilova? She might be the big winner here
Jana Novotna? Eh, she’s probably won more than Mauresmo, but certainly less than Navratilova
Bob Paris? Former Mr. Universe! 1983
Those are the most famous I could find….
by Highlifeman21 on Sep 15, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I met Pete two times
Once when I was 11 years old. He and Perez were very nice to me. Bench and Morgan total douches. Second time in 1993 at his restaraunt in Boca Raton, FL. I was 31 and he I talked about the Bengals (football season). He was realy a down to earth guy.
I met him at a Parkinson's charity event once
that was “hosted” by Muhammad Ali. Ali’s daughter was there too, and I remember she came up to him with her father, and complimented him about his restaurant. Pete Rose looked at her, took off his sleazy sunglasses, scoffs, and says “Whatever.”
Great, he played baseball well. I’m glad he played well for my favorite team and I appreciate his contribution to it. But he can still go fuck himself.
i could have seen this coming.
every time i hear a story about Rose being a good guy, somebody has to talk about what an asshole he is. this makes it tough for me to know the real Pete Rose.
"Now onto more important things: Punching Errorlando Cabrerror in the fucking tits." -Geki
maybe he is moody
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
well I don't pretend to know him
but I had two face to face meetings with him. At eleven I probably didn’t get a good picture of him but I did like our chat. At 31 I think I could gage him a little in a brief conversation. He didn’t have to talk to me but chose to and found it funny he had met me 20 years earlier. For all I know he is a creep. I just go by the small sample size that I realised with my personal experiences.
Counterpoint
Back in 84 or 85 I went to a game with a friend and his family (his grampa, uncles) and his uncle, Ray , who was downs syndrome. An old 45, Ray wore his Pete uniform, like he always did, and had his terrible Pete Rose haircut, like he always did.
We got there quite early and watched batting practice (do they still allow that? haven’t gone that early in quite some time). Some of the players were signing autographs. Pete stopped by and signed a couple and talked to Ray for a few minutes. [Ray had been to 10 games or so a year since he was young] He even took Ray to watch batting practice from by the cage for a couple minutes. Ray mentioned something about his restaurant. Pete Rose looked at him, took off his sleazy sunglasses, scoffs, and says "Whatever."
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
Grover...
I think you’re saying Rose was a jerk here. It’s like you drop it like a bomb at the very end after Pete being a great guy. Just want to make sure I’m reading it right?
lol
actually, he was great.
I just stole the part from UncleWeez as a joke at the end.
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
Thought he had some kind of wierd nervous tic
by Nasty N8 on Sep 13, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh baby, I'm the hitking. How do you like the hitking
Pete Rose looked at her naked body, took off his sleazy sunglasses, scoffs, and says “Whatever.”
I could sleep when I lived alone.
Is there a ghost in my house?
This is how the opening bit for CSI: Cincinnati should go every week
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
by Brendanukkah on Sep 13, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
over/under on posts in this thread before the game thread is up?
500?
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
Okay so the Bats are done
They have 4 guys on the 40-Man, all relief pitchers:
Burton
Del Rosario
Herrera
Valiquette
You would think Burton comes up today for sure, maybe Del Rosario.
I’d like to see Herrera sent out for Balentien, and I wouldn’t mind someone else being sent out for Dorn or Frazier. We seriously need some OF. Sounds like Bruce won’t be able to go everyday when he does return, and Gomes, Heisey, and Stubbs need a day or two off.
Can we put players we don't want to come up on the 60-Day DL?
i.e. Put Herrera on the DL for a case of Height Impairment
Yasmani Grandal for a case of too-many-catchers-already-itis
we could have them come up
play one game, order them to trip of first baseball and limp off the field.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Valiquette would be ideal for the job
I don’t think they have any intention of using him. If they can’t find a way to add one measly outfielder for the remainder of the season they’re not making a playoff-worth effort.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
With the playoff ticket lottery do you receive an email win or lose?
Or is it the type of thing where if you didn’t get an email you obviously didn’t get drawn.
From the looks of this page nobodies received an email so I’m assuming that means they were not sent out yet?
Before I bought ticket packages every year, I entered the opening day ticket lottery
And I always got an email saying “Sorry, you did not not win a chance to purchase tickets to opening day.”
I don’t know for sure, but I’m assuming the same will happen here.
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Today's installment of amazing student e-mails
What is this I don’t even…
I wanted to make an appointment with you tomorrow if possible to discuss some questions I have before the exam on Thursday . I have been working on some Comparative Advantage problems and I have encountered an issue. The book divides a certain way (using the nominator) and on our class note examples, we have been doing it a different way with the denominator. I am very confused on which way I should be dividing.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
opens up with a serious run on sentence.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's downhill from there.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Sep 13, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm trying to figure out
if he possibly wants to make an appointment, or if it is possible to discuss some questions at the appointment.
You should tell him that he can see you in office hours, but you can only discuss reds baseball.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, that's not really a run-on sentence.
She could have used some separation of the “if possible,” but otherwise it’s fine. Well, plenty complicated, but not flagrantly grammatically incorrect.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
by Gray on Sep 13, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see at least 3 spots where a comma should have been used.
Also examples should have been followed with a period.
WYSIWIG
I thought that was the guy who chose the candidates.
If nominatored, I will not run.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Willie Bloomquist? Seriously Walt?
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
worship, teaching, friends?
They’re going to have to clear a space on the 40-man for him, and they really see him as better than the AAA options?
IDGI.
Oh, his line this year: .265/.296/.388 in 181 PAs
career: .264/.316/.337
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
So they'll clear a spot on the 40 man for Bloomquist, but not Balentin
Makes sense
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
This is fucking stupid
and might get worse if they DFA someone on the 40-man besides Edmonds.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
could be worse
Bloomquist is a just warm body than can spell everyone on the roster so they can all be healthy for the playoffs. i’d rather they give a shot to Dorn, but at this point i think it’s more about getting people healthy than anything else.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 13, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I've softened since this initial, ill-considered knee-jerk
The move probably means (1) Heisey isn’t healthy enough to be trusted in CF, (2) Balentien isn’t healthy enough to get the call, (3) Bruce is coming back this week. I still think Dorn would be a useful add, since a lefty bat would be pretty helpful in LF and Heisey + Gomes, even when consolidated there, are pretty questionable right now.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
the planets and such.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
by justin007000 on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i think it is a loss to the fucking pirates
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 13, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's the pitiful way we did it...
I’ll take a loss to that team when they play well. But that game was an embarrassment.
All three games were embarrassing
Superb starting pitching, shitty bullpen, no offense.
Extra innings need to win two games to the Pirates. The PIRATES!
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, we took 2 out of 3
and we’re pissed about it?
how quickly we forget the dark days….
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
I admit that I'm one of those people
Everything is pissing me off and Walt Jocketty is NOT HELPING!!!
Finally, if you will permit me, I'd like to make a comment which in my mind, is indicative, perhaps, of the greater significance of football and sports emphasis in general in this country, and that is, I thank God I was warring on the gridirons of the Midwest and not on the battlefields of Europe. Nile Kinnick, 1939
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Sep 13, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wladmir Balentin
Must of shit in somebody’s oatmeal back at Spring Training. Seriously, WTF? Even if you get Bloomquist, add Balentien for some pop off the bench.
Willie can play infield too
which, to be fair, a backup SS is just as important as a backup CF right now.
He won’t lose any games by himself, that’s for sure.
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
by the way
is there a link to this?
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
No one you get on the September waiver wire is going to be a world-beater
but Bloomquist has barely played the infield at all this year. I don’t see him as being more viable option at SS than Janish, Cabrera or Valaika.
The only niche he fills is the ability to play CF, where I thought Heisey was the backup. Dorn would be much a more useful sub on the corners.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He was only DHing for the Bats, i think he is hurt
by Eastwindquinn on Sep 13, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to imagine they decided Wlad couldn't be trusted to patrol the OF
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Sep 13, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, best lead in a story goes to...
He is the face of a public franchise rooted in class.
When things slow down between the regular season and the playoffs, there should be a fanpost to try and come up with the top ten ways the Cards are classy.
Well, now that I check, ‘lede’ seems to be a holdover from the times of the hot press while ‘lead’ is acceptable and more modern.
It also makes me think of two very important words for scrabble players that come from the hot press era: ‘en’ and ‘em.’
As in dashes!
I know that because I took a typography class!
by the finest muffins on Sep 13, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
and there is my email. Didn't get selected
Thankfully my buddy is one of my best friends and he knows I am probably the biggest reds fan out of our friends. HEY BUDDY TIME TO SHOW YOUR TRUE COLORS SON!
and another buddy got selected
GOD DAMN YOU REDS. DONT YOU SEE I AM A BIGGER FAN THEN THEM
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