25 for 25: Reds
I am actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the National League, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 6 total outfielders, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basically minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons).
The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team.
I actually posted the entire NL East, NL West and NL Central on the SB Nation site Viva El Birdos, as well as a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934 and (eventually) a post just like this at all of the other NL sites. You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.
P.S. After completing the whole process and receiving comments last week, I realized that I should have utilized both BP's WARP1 and B-R's WAR numbers instead of just WARP1 along with Win Shares and OPS+/ERA+. (Fangraphs' WAR numbers only go back to 2002, so that would not have helped.) There were a couple players with differences of 2+ wins, so there might be a couple head-scratchers. My apologies.
C – Bo Diaz (1986), Jason LaRue (2001)
1B – Sean Casey (2004), Joey Votto (2009)
2B – Bret Boone (1998), Pokey Reese (1999)
3B – Chris Sabo (1990), Aaron Boone (2002)
SS – Barry Larkin (1991), Felipe Lopez (2005)
OF – Eric Davis (1987), Kevin Mitchell (1994), Reggie Sanders (1995), Ken Griffey Jr (2000), Jose Guillen (2003), Adam Dunn (2007)
SP – Danny Jackson (1988), Greg Swindell (1992), Jose Rijo (1993), Bronson Arroyo (2006), Edinson Volquez (2008)
RP – John Franco (1985), Rob Dibble (1989), Jeff Brantley (1996), Jeff Shaw (1997)
Notable exceptions: Joe Oliver (1992), Benito Santiago (1995), Hal Morris (1994), Ron Oester (1985), Tony Fernandez (1994), Dave Parker (1985), Kal Daniels (1988), Paul O’Neill (1991), Pete Schourek (1995), Aaron Harang (2007), Danny Graves (2000)
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Dear Cardinals fan,
Enjoy second place, amigo!
Love,
The 2010 Cincinnati Reds
by Geki on Aug 5, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
What a waste of fucking time.
There's a party in my pocket and everybody's having a ball.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Aug 5, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
There I ungreened it. Happy?
I am one generation away from breeding out my family asshole gene.
You are as dumb as anything you hate.
This comment sucks as does the fact that it went green
I don’t give a shit if the guy is a Cardinals fan, why be a dick to a harmless post like this? And it disappoints me that people found it laudable.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Aug 6, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Sorry,
I apologize for the rude comment.
There's a party in my pocket and everybody's having a ball.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Aug 6, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Slyde deactivate him?
Or did JNG do it himself?
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 7, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd never ban someone over something like that unless it was a consistent pattern and that's all they posted
I’m disappointed that JNG bolted because I didn’t think I was all that harsh. To be honest, I wasn’t really upset, just disappointed that it happened. I’m all for a Cardinals rivalry, but one thing I’ve always liked about this site is that when a person from a rival site showed up and wanted to talk baseball (or anything other than smack), we obliged him or her. I’d hate to see us as a site get into the mindset that just because the team is competitive now, we have to hate on everyone else. That kind of crap is lame.
Then again, I’m hardly ever around anymore, so I guess I should stop being preachy.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
If I had to pick just 1 thing to respect about you, it's your consistency
Thankfully, there’s other things to respect about you (aside from your book, which I’ve mostly read and enjoyed thoroughly). Of all the forums of which I’ve been a member of many spheres of influence, you’ve been one of the best.
That being said, fuck the Cardinals, fuck the Cubs, and I’m not allowed to enjoy this team if they make the post-season b/c I never believed in them in the first place, and I thought they were a 75 win team.
So yeah, VEB members, enjoy this sweep b/c your team entitled you to enjoy it, but it doesn’t change the fact that your manager is a complete ass clown, and we have your GM. Get bent.
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 11, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur, slyde
I’m all for stirring the pot in the name of shenanighans and laughs but I was disappointed with RR nation on this one.
I expect newbies to be treated with more respect…
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Aug 6, 2010 9:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he might be the real Paul Householder...
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Aug 6, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
We've had a pretty weak team the last 25 years.
Something tells me most other teams would probably be a bit more… I don’t know… talented and such.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I'll be posting to the Pirates in another half hour
They have a solid 7-year stretch to choose from and not a lot of great choices after that.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Doesn't sound like an easy team to do this with...
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Expos/Nationals are probably actually pretty decent I'd guess.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Just try finding a catcher for them
I dare ya – it’s not pretty!
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
eh
Their catching situation isn’t any worse than the Reds. They’ve had 3 above average seasons from catchers in the last 25 years, same as the Reds.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
That was just karma for 1981.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Wow, good luck with that task
And the Royals, while you’re at it
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 7, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I AM sorry that we're being jerks.(And not being very good at it either).
But truthfully, this theme has been written on many many times- just not with your season constraints, which I guess makes it more interesting, but still, somewhat arbitrary.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
Easy does it fellas...
He’s obviously a fan of the game, so the least you could do is be courteous.
My thoughts from just glancing over this and without any statistics in front of me…
Brandon Phillips should be on the 2B list long before Pokey Reese.
Jason LaRue at catcher? surely we have someone better than him. Benito Santiago would be a much better choice.
Felipe Lopez shouldn’t be on that list either.
These yearly constraints you’ve put in place either make things interesting, or just really annoying.
hmmm just noticed Lopez was an all-star in '05.
Wow, that was a bad team.
The very good offensive season
Covered up his huge defensive shortcomings. He was a good DH. Lousy shortstop.
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Aug 6, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Something tells me that 1996 Larkin might have been better than 1991 Larkin?
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
You're probably right
WAR has him at 7.4 in ‘96, 5.8 in ’91. The WARP1 numbers were basically the same and I think I had more of a need for him in 1991 – I don’t remember for sure. If you want to do a straight switch him to ’96, Norm Charlton would probably be a decent replacement for Brantley.
Larkin had five season that posted WARP1 values of 7.9 to 8.5, so I had a lot to choose from.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
bc he's a badass. And yes, that's present tense.
For that matter, he’s way better than Ozzie ever was.
Oh snap!
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 5, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sometimes goods players get blocked off
You might be able to make a strong case for Phillips, although his WAR numbers are not great, but remember that you need to take away one of the guys already picked, either Votto (probably not) or Dunn (all of his seasons are fairly similar). Or move Dunn to ‘04 or ’05 and replace that guy, so on and so forth.
LaRue made the team because the only >2.0 WAR player on the team was Elmer Dessens and I needed to fill a gap, so Santiago gets bumped.
As for Lopez, who else is decent? Keppinger ’07? Hairston Jr ’08? Concepcion ’85? That is all that is left once you take away all of Larkin’s career – that and Lopez in ‘05.
This whole thing is just a thought exercise that I started and couldn’t stop doing.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
There's only one team that you didn't even mentioned one player from!
First base$$$$$$$$$$$ Tony Perez
Second base$$$$$$$$ Joe Morgan
Shortstop$$$$$$$$$$$ Dave Concepcion
Third base$$$$$$$$$$ Pete Rose
Right field$$$$$$$$$$$ Ken Griffey
Center Field$$$$$$$$$ Cesar Geronimo
Left Field$$$$$$$$$$$ George Foster
Catcher$$$$$$$$$$$$ Johnny Bench
Any pitcher from this 75 & 76 team Not like they needed it. This was a monster team.
Probably because that was more than 25 years ago
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Aug 5, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Please do not be on our side.
You are as dumb as anything you hate.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 5, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
$
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Aug 6, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Derp!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 5, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agree with encinoman, the brm made way too much money
Reading these comments reminds me there’s still much more good than bad in this community. Still, it’d be nice if a half game lead in August didn’t bring out so much dickishness.
by ken on Aug 6, 2010 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Half-Game leads in August bring out dickishness no matter who's leading.
That’s sports. Solanus has shown to be a good sport and not been baited by some trash talking. Props on his(?) part. Personally, I think people are making kind of more of a deal out of this than needs to be made. Sure, we were a bit rude, but I don’t think it was anything personal. And I think Solanus obviously has the mental awareness necessary to realize that nothing was personal. And for what it’s worth, I do think the topic was kind of interesting. Solanus obviously put quite a bit of work into it and into the other teams as well. I have a feeling he’s aware of the possible reception he could be welcomed with at opposing blogs, especially in the heat of a pennant race and his love of baseball probably meant he really didn’t care about a few negative comments. I think anything negatively said on the topic probably has more to do with his team affiliation than anything else, and he realizes that.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Sounded personal to me. Maybe I'm not thick-skinned enough.
and I liked the endeavor – found it interesting
Reds fan for 40 years!
Joe's comment might have been personal
But I really don’t think he would have said it if it had been a Royals fan or something posting. Competition brings out the worst in people. That’s kind of the point of it.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
"I think anything negatively said on the topic probably has more to do with his team affiliation than anything else, and he realizes that."
this isnt high school. we dont treat people like that just because they are wearing a Cards hat. we’re better than that. we arent Cubs fans.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 6, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not high school?
High school is the only place where people are judged based on their looks? Common.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
Technically I got banned the other day, too
But that was because I was trying to post these rosters too soon after each other and the system treated me like a spam machine. They took away my posting privileges for a little while, but I sent an e-mail to them, explaining myself.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Hope we don't think I'm endorsing all of that.
I mean sure, our response was inappropriate, I’m just saying that it’s not exactly surprising.
"People don't kill people. Burning oreo packages kill people."
I liked it. Thanks for posting, sorry we have a couple of hosebags in our midst.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 6, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't negatively critique his choices unless you have improvement to mention.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 6, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
come on folks
dont be such dicks about it. even if you dont think it’s interesting, you can at least be courteous. assholes.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 5, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree. asshole.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 5, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey why be fuckturds?
We should save that energy for each other…and not some well meaning poor Deadbird fan,
Christ on a Hubcap.
"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks.. they're clogging up the bases.. ."
--Dusty Bake - Fearless Visionary Manager
douchebag entourage reared its ugly head...
Gratefully I don’t get the “corporate culture” here, at times.
Saw nothing at all wrong with the post. At least someone posted fucking original content…
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Aug 6, 2010 8:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
I can't tolerate Cardinals in this place.
If that makes me birdist or an asshole, so be it.
There's a party in my pocket and everybody's having a ball.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Aug 5, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
birdist
brilliant.
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 5, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I never thought that photo would be the one to cross the line.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 5, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It even disturbed me,
and that is saying something.
There's a party in my pocket and everybody's having a ball.
by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Aug 5, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It was taken away
A picture of a bird with a full glorious view of its dirt star.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
by Solanus on Aug 7, 2010 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Dirt star"
My favorite term for a butthole. A rec for you.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 7, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
dude
you are such a filthy bastard.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 7, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Takes one to know one. I'm assuming you're aware of the filthy handshake.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 7, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are good too. Balloon knot is a very close second.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 8, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Sphincter Cinch
For you all country folks
"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks.. they're clogging up the bases.. ."
--Dusty Bake - Fearless Visionary Manager
i just realized
the OP’s handle means “sun asshole”. i hope that is just an unfortunate coincidence.
on the other hand, i hope it’s not.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 5, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions
It's a legitimate name/word
The word solanus means solitary in Late Latin and the word sullen is derived from it.
There are two Solanus’ of note in religious history (a 17th Century South American missionary & a 20th Century priest up for sainthood) , although this has nothing to do with my choosing it.
Yeah I know that it looks like the Sun’s butthole, but it’s legitimate.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
So maybe we'll be calling you St. Butthole soon?
(I keed. You’ve been a good sport with the asshattery and what not. Then again, it is the internet…)
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
dangit
I assumed Solanus was a mythological figure and pronounced So-lahn-ewe-es.
"the only place they lost was the scoreboard"
by Ewok on Aug 6, 2010 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
All this time I thought we were talking about the old Chevy Solanus hatchback
"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks.. they're clogging up the bases.. ."
--Dusty Bake - Fearless Visionary Manager
...and your sig line is C&H
i like this guy!
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 6, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

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