Red Reposter - In Which the English Language Suddenly Finds a Dearth of Adjectives to Describe Joey Votto
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If you missed it yesterday
I feel a deep, painful sympathy for you. Joey Votto's 9th inning AB against Jonny Broxville was baseball bacchanalia. Fay says it was "worthy of an HBO documentary." Broxton blew two quick fastballs passed Votto's bat, stirring a tense Dodger crowd into an increasingly loud hush. Votto kicked at the dirt in frustration as Broxton circled the mound with increasing confidence. But as Broxton continued to pump fastballs, Votto's bat quickened. 96, 98, 99, the stadium gun lit up with glee at Broxton's display, but Votto was able to fight them off. He fouled off four impossible pitches as Broxton ran the count full. On the tenth pitch of the at-bat, Votto authoritatively drilled a line drive to left field to crush any hope of a Dodger comeback. Broxton was banished to the dugout in defeat. As he stood on 1B having bested another in a long line of great pitchers, Votto couldn't help but contain a smirk of self-confidence.
It was the best single at-bat I have seen all season. -
Everyone here at RR knows Joey Votto is the MVP of the NL this season
And now he has Bronson Arroyo in his corner as well. "No question," Arroyo said. "If we win the division, he should be the MVP. Even if we don’t, he should be right up there. To carry a club that hasn’t had a winner in a long, long time. Just from a numbers standpoint, he’s as good as anyone in the game. He deserves everything he gets." We are experiencing a season like no other we have seen in quite a few years. You'd probably have to go back to mid-90's Larkin for a player season as special as the one The Say Eh Kid is putting up now. Every time Joey steps to the plate, I can't help but hear the Perfect Strangers theme song in my head. Nothin's gonna stop him now. -
Axe Hal
Q If you ran the Reds would you pick up Bronson Arroyo’s option for 2011 with all the young pitchers the Reds have available for the rotation? — Andrew, Nashville, Tenn.
A I don’t run the Reds and it isn’t happening, doggone it, but I would make signing Arroyo a priority. He has never missed a start, never been on the disabled list in his career and eats innings like comedian Louie Anderson eats lunch. Those young pitchers need a veteran presence and Arroyo is perfect for the job. He and Mike Leake already are inseparable — a couple of long-haired surfer-boy types with similar pitching styles.
So this is an interesting situation. Neither the Reds nor Bronson are gonna think about this until after they win the World Series (natch), but it's certainly not an easy decision. Bronson has an $11 mil club option for next season, which means if the Reds want to bring him back, alls they have to do is pay him the money. They can also decline that option and pay him $2 mil to go away. So basically, it's a $9 mil decision. But they ALSO have the option to decline his option and then offer him arbitration. By doing this, they would be in a position to collect 2 top draft picks in next year's draft if he were to decline the arb offer. If he were to accept the arb offer, he'd likely stand to get a decent raise on the $11 mil he's making this season. In this case, the Reds would probably end up paying Bronson $2 mil to decline the option and then another ~$14 mil in salary.
Got all that? OK, so what to do? In my esteemed opinion, I think the best thing is to just pick up the $11 mil option. As it stands, the Reds have Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake, Travis Wood, Homer Bailey, and Edinson Volquez likely to return to the rotation next season, as well as Matt Maloney, Sam LeCure, and Aroldis Chapman who all are looking to make the big league rotation next season. That is a ton of young pitching talent. It's embarrassing even.
But everyone knows there is no such thing as a pitching surplus. Arroyo is as yawn-inducingly predictable as any pitcher in the league, as he has been an average-or-better pitcher every year since 2004, never missing a start in that stretch. Which stands in stark contrast to his personality - the boat-drivin', intern-bangin', weed-bogartin' son-of-a-gun who is supposed to be the steadying veteran leadership this young rotation needs. I don't think we can afford NOT to keep him. (note: I wrote all this up yesterday afternoon before the whole conversation took place in the post-game thread. I wasn't about to cut it out thought 'cause I worked real hard on it. So that's that.)
Orlando Cabrera says he's ready to return from the DL
"We’ll see," Baker said. "I’m not sure. It’s going to be cool (in San Francisco). That doesn’t help the situation. When he says he’s ready, it will be a couple of days." They may wait until they return from the road trip. Even then, it should be a very difficult decision. Baker had high praise for Lando's fill-in: "He’s been outstanding," Baker said. "He’s got some key hits and key walks, especially in the eighth spot. You need a guy who is going to drive in some key runs and also bring the pitcher to the plate – via a hit or a walk. If the pitcher makes the third out, at least I’ve got Brandon (Phillips) leading off the next inning."
Janish has played every inning of every game since Cabrera went out. "He’s not tired," Baker said. "He’s had four months to rest." That last line is a real stinger. Janish blistered the ball his first week starting (.900+ OPS), but since then he's cooled significantly (.671 OPS). Still, the Reds are 11-4 since he took over at SS. Is that enough to Pipp Cabrera? Should it be?
How do you solve a problem like Harang?
Pitching coach Bryan Price was ominously diplomatic in his assessment of Aaron Harang's rehab stint. Harang has not pitched well, giving up 11 runs in 11 innings for AAA Louisville. He's looked strong and shown he can pitch a full game, but if he can't do it well he's not really of any use to a title contender.
"I think anything can happen," Price said. "The only thing we do know is he appears healthy and strong enough to pitch without risk of re-injury. Now we have to decide what's best for Aaron, what's best for our ballclub and make a plan from there." I think if he comes back at all, it will be in the bullpen. But at this point, even that is not assured. The Reds can keep him on rehab until rosters expand on Sept 1st, so they won't have to drop anyone for him. But who's innings would he take? It's such a sad, sad way to watch such a great player, and man, spend his final days with the Reds. If they can't even find a place for him in the 'pen this season, there's no way they can find a place for him next season.
I think Dusty kinda tipped his hand regarding his assessment of the outfield logjam
With 6 outfielders on the team right now, it's understandably difficult to find playing time for all of them. Especially for the one who plays strong defense at all 3 positions and is hitting the best of the whole group. "(Chris Heisey is) going to start tomorrow (Sunday)," Baker said. "It’s been challenging. You can’t play everybody. You’ve got to play who you think is best that day." I guess Dusty rarely thinks Heisey is his best option. With the team winning so much it's been increasingly more difficult to find things to criticize about the way Dusty is running things. But that certainly hasn't stopped me from trying. Heisey has been the best outfielder on the team. It really isn't even close. That may be because other teams haven't seen him enough to expose his weaknesses, but that's on Dusty.
The Fay has a ton of useful info in this post
Micah Owings will likely be given his outright release this week. When the Reds DFA'd him, they had 10 days to try to trade him. I guess nobody wants him. Johnny Damon is being shopped by the Tigers. I'd much rather have him than Laynce Nix or Jim Edmonds, but it's not a BFD. The third catcher for September will either be hotshot prospect-of-the-year Devin Mesoraco or hotshot moustache-of-the-year Corky Miller. It will most likely be the Corkster.
Mike Leake is making the most of his transition (don't say demotion) to the bullpen
He made his first relief appearance Saturday night: "It was all right. It was a good new experience," said Leake, who gave up two runs and five hits over 2 1/3 innings while throwing 49 pitches. "It's always a little different until you get used to something."
Jordan Smith is probably the most surprising player on this team this season
Kid jumped from AA where he was struggling to dispatch the Birmingham Barons and has thrown nothing but rocks since then. He had a 13 inning scoreless streak snapped a few weeks ago though, and it looks like the honeymoon is over. He's given up 6 runs in his last 4 innings. The way this bullpen has been going, it's going to be really difficult to say who stays and who goes when they have to set the roster for playoff eligibility. It would suck to see him left out, but it's gotta be somebody and these last 4 innings (even with the SSS) aren't going to bolster his case.
The Reds are set to continue playing AA ball in Zebulon through 2012
Everything I've heard suggests it's a good thing, so I don't have any reason to believe differently. Go Mudcats!
The Paper of Record has a nice little write-up about our quaint little baseball town
Baseball is back on the banks of the Ohio. Them big city folks are taking notice.
Financial documents for the Pirates, Rays, Marlins, Angels, and Mariners were released on Deadspin today. Maury Brown at The Biz of Baseball breaks them down for us.
Fairwell, Sweet Lou
Lou Piniella has stepped down as manager of the Cubs. His mother is in poor health and he wants to spend more time with her. "She hasn’t gotten any better since I’ve been here," he said. "She’s had a couple other complications, and rather than continue to go home, come back, it’s not fair to the team, it’s not fair to the players. So the best thing is just to step down and go home and take care of my mother."
He was planning on retiring at the end of the season, but with the Cubs floundering there is really no reason for him to stick around with his mother in such desperate need. Sweet Lou will always be remembered 'round here as the fiery leader of the Wire-to-Wire Reds, the last Reds team to take home the trophy. So long, Skip.
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Joey Votto makes men tremble and women faint.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 23, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions
and women tremble in their taint
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Aug 23, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
They don't call him "Panty-Puddles" for nothing.
I'm like a .38 caliber Derringer: absurd but deadly.
by Pops Daniels on Aug 23, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Boom!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 23, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
True story:
When the Beatles performed in America for the first time on The Ed Sullivan Show, they made all those girls scream hysterically. So hysterically, in fact, that the stadium seating became a grotesque waterfall of uncontrolled female urine that threatened to cause electrical shortages in the broadcast equipment.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, now I'm turned on.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
flat-out hot
no question
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was going to be about Chris Carpenter. This was way better.
My favorite is the pitcher’s reaction.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
so the NES game Baseball Stars was right, you can climb the wall and grab a HR
… is this even possible at any MLB stadium?
"Yeah, yeah, that's what we do in Cincinnati, we go first to third baby!"-Brandon Phillips.
by joshuar9476 on Aug 23, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Photoshopped
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
From a pure offensive numbers standpoint, Votto's season is better than anything Larkin ever did.
His 1996 season comes close, but Votto’s is still better. And Larkin’s 1996 was quite a bit better than any other season he put up. What’s scary is that this season seems totally repeatable going forward for Votto.
I think to find a similar full season you have to go back to Kal Daniels in 1987. And he only played 108 games that year. Then before that you have to go to George Foster in 1977. (Much more power for Foster, but less OBP)
That’s the kind of special season Votto is having. A once in a generation type of special season.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Aug 23, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How about this?
Top 6 OPS+ seasons ever by a Reds player:
Player Year OPS+
Joe Morgan 1976 186
Cy Seymour 1905 181
Frank Robinson 1962 172
Joey Votto 2010 169
Joe Morgan 1975 169
Frank Robinson 1960 169
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Aug 23, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
And for a few,
October company.
by the finest muffins on Aug 23, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And for one,
November company.
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Aug 23, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That'll work.
And it puts Joe Morgan’s ridiculous ‘75/’76 seasons in some perspective.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
especially considering he played 2nd base
and played it well.
"The USA despite its flaws and corruption and overall messiness is still a great and powerful instrument of freedom and hope for the entire world." - Madville
Frank Robinson
Check out some of his seasons as a Red for OPS+
Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers were nasty boys. Arthur Rhodes is a nasty MAN. by Brendanukkah
Take a look at Frank Robinson's '61 MVP season . . .
Not only are Votto’s projected season numbers almost identical, Robinson won the MVP while leading the Reds to the WS after a decade plus stretch of mostly losing records.
This is an interesting
if mostly irrelevant addendum, from Fangraphs:
Justin Morneau, .447 wOBA
Miguel Cabrera, .446 wOBA
Josh Hamilton, .445 wOBA
Joey Votto, .435 wOBA
Wilson Betemit, .431 wOBA
Top 5 in wOBA, with 150 PA minimum.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So Votto is slightly more valuable than Wilson Betemit?
Awesome!
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
179 PA vs. Votto's 500
But it’s pretty weird.
By wOBA, Votto is your NL MVP. And Canadian first basemen could sweep the award.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I had no idea Cabrera was Canadian.
What, me? Being negative? No. Never.
by Paul Householder on Aug 23, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Cowherd is back dishing on the Reds...
Talking about how the Reds have no Ace… (whch is true), but is talking about the Reds rotation of Arroyo, Harang, and Leake. If you’re going to attack my team, at least do your freaking research!
Who gives a fuck what some shithead in Bristol says?
Bart: "Dad, what's a Muppet?"
Homer: "Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know."
by ChiDa on Aug 23, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Aug 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
In case you missed the announcement in FARMER'S ONLY
Today is the birthday of one….BK !!!
If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter.
Bob Uecker
you gonna make it rain tonight, mads?
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
/pacman'd
orr…..
/ravenriley’d
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Aug 23, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Great little article in the Times
Vecsey’s notions of batting average and payroll might seem quaint, but it’s refreshing to read snark-free, unadorned prose. I certainly can’t do it, but it’s an elegant style.
I’d like to imagine Votto really does eat downtown regularly and check in to see how business is going. Maybe he’s taken to the city and would be willing to discuss something along the lines of a 15 year extension.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
Stubbs won't burn an option if he's sent down and re-called in early September
Given the 20 day stipulation. Given that’s no a longer a consideration, if they’re not keeping 6 OFer, I can’t see picking Stubbs over Heisey based on performance over the last two seasons. Stubbs may be the only “pure centerfielder” on the team, but I don’t know that’s enough to make his case.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
I agree. But, Gomes has gotten awful. He gets my vote off the island.
A hooker in Minneapolis, who is actually in Lakeside Park.
by Lucky Pierre on Aug 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Shave the mohawk maybe?
He needs to start having fun again.
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 3:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On Piniella
I can’t help but think that by attending RedsFest this past winter, among the 1990 team celebration, that something clicked for Lou in a way that provided him with some nostalgia and a crystallization of what he may have already been thinking about retirement. He probably knew that it would be a difficult job guiding the Cubs to any sort of post-season run so maybe the appearance at RedsFest hastened his decision a bit.
Obviously he didn’t want to go out on a blowout game in the middle of August, but I am glad he stepped down to take care of more important things, his mother’s health and quite possibly his own.
www.crosleyfieldterrace.wordpress.com
by xjjeep90 on Aug 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll take cool Janish
.671 OPS is still better than Cabrera’s .641 OPS.
Plus, you know…defense.
But I’m not expecting Dusty to agree. :-P
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I don't do game threads
..so this may have been covered.
The Reds have to pick up Arroyo’s option. Have to. Unless they’re willing to go after Cliff Lee, who’s (1) available and (2) better? If they’re not, add (3) cheaper?
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
I agree with the "have to"
I’m normally as much of a “just look at the stats” guy as anybody, but this is one of those cases where it goes beyond stats. He may only be worth $6m or $8m or whatever based on his raw numbers, but he’s also got that I’ve-been-here-before-and-you-can’t-rattle-me-and-winning-is-the-only-option mentality that’s hard to quantify. But it’s definitely work $9m next year, and the Reds have to pick up that option.
"We don't worry about the pennant much, we just like to see the boys hit it deep."
by beasleymachine on Aug 23, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
#1 Priority
is signing Votto to a 4-5 year deal.
After you do that you can evaluate if you have the money to pick up Arroyo’s option.
But first you have to sign Votto.
sure
but how much? he could get close to the $10 mil 1st-year arb figure that Ryan Howard got. is a 5-year, $70 mil deal gonna cut it?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 23, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, after this year
he’s gotta be worth more than Ryan Howard.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
well, he already is
and it aint even close. but i can see Votto’s agent point to Howard as a comp. Howard got $10 mil his first arb year, then signed a 3-year, $54 deal the next year. my question is, can the Reds afford to give Votto $64 mil for the next 4 years? they damn well better, but i think it depends on whether or not Banana Bob is fer realz.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 23, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
thats why I sign Votto first
but if they dont exercise the options on Harang and Bronson they definitely can afford 4 yr 65 mil deal for Votto. And no reason the payroll cant go up.
Banana Bob is making nice money on the Reds since he has owned them- no reason he cannot sign Votto.
That would be my top priority.
He’s going to command bigger money than Zimmerman, possibly even above what Morneau got, who signed for 6 yr/$80MM. You could backload it a bit and end up giving Joey $6MM-$7MM next year. You also have to work out arb with Volquez, Bruce and Cueto. I’d consider an extension to Cueto, to buy out his arb years and possible buy low deal with Bruce. I would want to figure out the financials on all the long-terms pieces of the team before giving Arroyo his money. But if the money is there, I don’t think the Reds are going to find ways to spend it much more efficiently fishing around the free agent market.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
ftr, it's likely a 13M option
There’s an unspecified innings threshold that bumps up the option to 13 from 11. Unless they copied the clause from Old Hoss Radbourn’s contract, I imagine he’ll reach it.
Not that this changes the calculus. With three rounds of playoffs they should be able make enough to cover the option regardless.
by ken on Aug 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That would put the Reds around $54MM in guaranteed money
before settling arb and tendering other contracts. I think around $15MM ( or more) could go to the Big 4 in arbitration, depending on who, if any, get extensions. So unless payroll increases, signing Arroyo likely means no activity on the free agent market to get a SS or LF. Which might be OK. But some money is going to have to be there to take on any contracts that come in trade.
Keeping Arroyo and doing something about SS or LF probably means inching the payroll close to $80MM, and shipping out Francisco or Alonso – possibly both.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the point is
that they wouldn’t drop him and then go after a free agent. It would only make sense if they went with the in-house options, which would be cheaper.
But I still agree that it’s a pretty easy choice, except that they’re operating under constraints. Even still, if he’s the only highly paid pitcher and he’s coming at $9 million more than if the option were declined, that seems possible.
Let me write out a formal proof for you.
Here we go agin...
I don’t buy the “operating under constraints” crap. Until I hear the words come out of Castellini’s or Jockety’s mouth, I don’t believe this team has hard budget considertations, especially in light of what they’ve done while Castellini’s been here. Thus, to me, there is no reason to believe that signing Votto will affect Arroyo.
If you look at the team,
- The starting pitching is deep, but there are lots of question marks. And having a guy that you “know” (as much as you can know such things) is going to give you 200+ IP at an ERA+ of 110 is huge. There are guys who may pitch better and as often, but no one I’d expect to.
- If they need to look for value, there seem to be other places where they could easily upgrade from within – OF (they could run 4 pre-arb guys + Bruce out there), SS (Janish and Valaika), maybe Hanigan and Mesoraco at C.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
The team is fiscally capable
of picking up Arroyo’s option and inking Joey to a longterm extension. But unless payroll goes above the $75MM or so average at which its been sitting for the past three seasons, that’s going to probably mean things like jettisoning Ramon Hernandez and going with in house options in OF and SS, or working a trade or two for someone like JJ Hardy – reasonable contract / under team control but hasn’t realized their potential / coming off a down year(s).
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
JJ Hardy will be coming off two down years.
It’s not looking good for the guy.
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 3:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
By "like JJ Hardy"
I think I meant “not JJ Hardy.” Or, what we thought JJ Hardy could be last offseason.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This horse is really dead, I know
…but I keep going back to Mike Illitch.
When he bought the Red Wings in 1980, they were known as the “”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Red_Wings#1967.E2.80.9382:The.22Dead_Wings.22_era" >Dead Things" because they’d been so bad for so long (they’d made the playoffs twice in 27 seasons). He hired commpitent people to run the team, and they’ve won 4 Stanley Cups since ‘97 and had the league’s best record 6 times since ‘95. They are derisively referred to as “the Yankees of the NHL” because they’ll spend money on any player that makes them better.
He also bought the Tigers in ‘92, and did much the same thing, only with worse results. Randy Smith wasted hundreds of millions of Illitch’s dollars, bottoming out in ‘03 (that’s $37.5M for -.6 WAR among their top 6 in payroll). Smith gone, Dombrowski in with a limited budget (Illitch may be rich, but he isn’t stupid), and already they’ve gone from the worst team in AL history to perennial playoff contender…and top 10 in salary in salary each of the past 3 seasons.
Detroit’s economy has been contracting for at least a decade, if not longer. If the Tigers can take a chance by expanding payroll smartly, I am convinced that Cincinnati (and frankly, many other teams) can do the same – and even though it’s only been 2 years, I think Jockety has proven he can handle doing it smartly.
"You never know how you look through other people's eyes"
just because they could, or even should,
doesnt mean they will. Illitch is one of the greatest owners in American sports. im not sure Banana Bob is cut from the same cloth.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 23, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't you have used a tropical fruit metaphor?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Aug 23, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure Banana Bob is in the same bunch as Illich.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I love when you two get into it
It’s the best feud at RR.
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
best fueds!
awesome topic
1. Slyde and Mads, over the proper use of the reply button
2. Daedalus and me, cause i kill africans
3. jch and anyone who’s sober at the time
4. tHan and gray, over pop-ups and deleted comments
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
by obc2 on Aug 23, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
5. Geki and any poor fool over whatever that fucking poor fool vomitted up and presented as a comment.
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 3:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Justin and spelling
When you come to the fork in the road, take it.
by poojols on Aug 23, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you bought a new cell phone?
what’d ya get?
by Highlifeman21 on Aug 24, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting from Jim Callis at BA
In his latest Q&A, he says that of the teams that spent less on the draft than the $6.5 mil that was the average, the Reds got some of the best talent. (The team spent 5.7 mil, good for 16th in the league).
It’s so nice to have a scouting and minor league staff that so consistently brings in good talent.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
yum
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting heisey stat from lance
From listener Jeff
Heisey vs:
Pittsburgh Pirates: 10 for 21, .476 avg, 3 HR, 6 RBI, 2 K’s……4 mulit-hit games
Everybody Else: 22 for 97, .227 avg, 4 HR, 8 RBI, 30 K’s…..4 mulit-hit games
hmmmm…….
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Lance presented a stat where he picked and choosed at the data?
I’m shocked.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
im shocked you used the word "choosed"
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Actually, it appears that "Listener Jeff" picked and choosed the data.
by Brian B on Aug 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or he picked and chose the data.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
actually, it should have been "picked-and-choosed"
I have no proof it is right, but I was putting the idiom in past tense, not the word choose. Plus, picked and chose sounds lame ass.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
But wouldn't you have to put both words in the idiom in the past tense?
Why does correct grammar always sound so lame?
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
it's not correct grammar that's lame
it’s people talking about correct grammar that’s lame
by 'tHan on Aug 23, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or people criticizing other people for talking about correct grammar
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
or just jimmy Buffett
You may outfit the Trolley.
by Man Mountain on Aug 23, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
A man with an Oregon shirt stopped by the museum today and his phone went off in the gallery
Ringtone: “Margaritaville”
Then I saw him at the Nats game later in the evening.
by Brendanukkah on Aug 24, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
game threads are grammar free zones
reposter comments are held to a higher standard
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Yes lets have Justin give him a call
If a guy hits .300 every year, what does he have to look forward to? I always tried to stay around .190, with three or four RBI. And I tried to get them all in September. That way I always had something to talk about during the winter.
Bob Uecker
Francisco Cordero is the best closer ever!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
Seeing The Say Eh Kid's 9th inning at-bat in person was yum.
The announced crowd was 44,788, but it was hotter than a flaming monkey’s scrottocks, and I don’t think the crowd was any bigger than 28,000 marginally-faithful fans. That number was closer to 17,000 by the 9th inning (almost all of them huddled in seats that featured shade), and about half of them left as soon as Votto hit that ball. About 1 in 8 folks there seemed to be Red fans.
Ya gotta pick up the option on Arroyo, then trade him if you’re overstocked next season. It’s a good price, and he’s a valuable commodity – arguably a rare one. He has been in the majors since 2000, but has collected only 7.150 years of service time thusfar. Does anyone know when/if he qualifies to veto any trade as a 10-and-5 man?
I love the Perfect Strangers theme song, and hereby declare it to be the official RR theme song for the 2010 Reds. Why? It’s unusual. Pretty white and corny. Some funny foreigners. And smacking Chicago around like it owes Wayne Brady money.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
Arroyo will be a 10-5 man
when he accrues 10 years of service time, the last 5 of which are with the same team.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, then. You npick up Arroyo's option and trade if necessary.
End of discussion. No point in reading anything else today. :)
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is actually not a bad thought. Although I imagine the PR damage it would do would be a deterrent to Walt and Bob.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
It took me a moment, but I see what you did there.
Ein Achtung du hast gehaben.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Aug 23, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

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