What To Do With The Reds Starting Rotation Surplus
The Reds have a weird problem to have. It's a problem that most teams would kill for and it's a problem we haven't seen in Cincinnati in my lifetime. They have too many quality starting pitchers. Now they don't have an ace among them - at least not yet - but the Reds have as many as 9 pitchers that could pitch in the majority of big league rotations.
Over the last 12 games, the starting rotation has been a bright spot for the Reds. They've gone 79 innings (6.5 IP per start) and allowed just 22 earned runs (2.51 ERA). They aren't striking out a lot of hitters - just 5.1 per 9 IP - but they aren't walking many either (2.1 BB/9). In general, each of the Reds starters have been on a good streak of late:
| Pitcher | Starts | IP | ERA | SO | BB | HR |
| Bronson Arroyo | 7 | 49.0 | 2.76 | 20 | 14 | 5 |
| Johnny Cueto | 5 | 32.2 | 0.83 | 14 | 13 | 1 |
| Mike Leake | 6 | 36.2 | 6.14 | 20 | 14 | 8 |
| Aaron Harang | 7 | 41.2 | 3.67 | 27 | 15 | 4 |
| Travis Wood | 3 | 20.2 | 2.18 | 17 | 5 | 1 |
| Matt Maloney | 2 | 11.2 | 3.09 | 4 | 2 | 1 |
Before you say anything, yes, I know this is selective endpointing. I'm not trying to make any decision based solely on these numbers. All I want to show is the most recent trend for these pitchers and I selectively endpointed based on where I thought the trend started.
With Edinson Volquez coming back to the rotation after the break, the Reds are going to have clear a spot out of the rotation for him. One pitcher who has hit a slow patch of late is Mike Leake. His numbers are a bit deflated by his attempt at a complete game on Friday, but he's given up 5 or more runs in 4 of his last 6 starts. Is he hitting a wall? Is the league figuring him out? That's something the Reds need to determine.
I don't expect that the Reds will take Leake out of the rotation to make room for Volquez though. My guess is that Matt Maloney will go back to the minors and Volquez will take his spot. The real question is, what do the Reds do if Aaron Harang is back and healthy after the break. As you can see, Harang hasn't exactly been chopped liver of late, but then neither has anyone else really, except Leake.
I think at this point, the Reds will have a hard time taking Travis Wood out of the rotation, at least not immediately after his performance on Saturday night. What I expect will happen is that either Harang or Leake will go to the bullpen when Harang comes back, which is to say, I expect Leake to go to the bullpen. This is not just in reaction to his recent struggles, but also because the Reds are interested in limiting his innings. It's also because in the big leagues, the veteran almost always gets their starting spot back after injury.
I don't think the Reds should settle for that easy answer though. I think they should think long and hard about moving Harang to the bullpen. There are a couple of reasons why I think that. For one, I think Harang can throw the ball harder than either Leake or Wood. His average fastball is right about 90 MPH as a starter, but according to pitch fx, he can his 93-94 still on the gun, and that's when he's conserving himself. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Harang could touch 95 or 96 if he's out on the mound for just an inning at a time.
Another reason for moving Harang to the pen is that he's basically a two-pitch pitcher already. He doesn't need any other pitches to be able to get hitters out an inning at a time, so he can mix up his fastballs and sliders and hopefully be more effective in shorter stints.
I think all three of these guys have the mound presence to be successful in the bullpen. They all have good control and I think would be able to handle the pressure of pitching late in games in tough situations. One thing I don't know is if any of them can handle getting loose quickly enough to be called on as a short reliever. This is probably one big red flag for Harang, since he's been a starting pitcher for at least a decade longer than the other two pitchers.
Another argument that gets made against Harang to the bullpen is that he often struggles in the first inning. While this is true, we shouldn't get too hung up on it because just about every pitcher does worse in the first inning. It's the only inning in the game where it is guaranteed that the 1-2-3 hitters are going to bat, and typically (unlike the Reds) teams try to put their best hitters in those spots in the order.
As they say, it's a good problem to have. I think all three of these pitchers deserve to stay in the big leagues, and I think they all can help the Reds in the second half. Given that the Reds really could use some bullpen help, I sure hope they are considering moving one of them out to the pen, at least temporarily.
NOTE: I didn't mention Homer Bailey at all because until there is any sign of him coming back this season, we don't really need to worry about him.
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Not for me
but I figured I’d put it out there because some people believe it is the best option and I’d figure I’d give those people an outlet for their insanity.
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I voted for trade more than release....
It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
good luck with that.
Oswalt, Haren, Millwood….
Harang has negative trade value right now because of his contract.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Was thinking of trading for SS or OF prospects.
It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
who cares if you even get anything in return?
the assumption is we have better options than him on the team, and it would be nice if they could trade him to another playoff caliber team.
so essentially you voted to release him, since we'd have to pick up most of his salary, not get much back in return
and, oh yeah, wouldn’t have his services either.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
or.....
trade him, pick up most of his salary and give his innings to a more qualified and productive arm.
yeah, i’d do that in a pennant race. i support the In It To Win It mentality.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
But you're assuming he has zero value on this roster, which I think is a bad assumption.
He’s had good streaks this year, and would probably be much better than Owings as the long man. I would really really hate to release him, still be paying his salary, and then need a starter sometime in August and not be able to call on him.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i didn't say to pick up most of his salary
also, there’s a big difference in releasing and trading him to a contender.
releasing him would be a public slap in the face to someone who’s been great for our franchise. it’s poor form
there is no way Harang gets released
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
With his health concerns and lack of recent production (and perceived major recent decline)
combined with the contract that doubles his buyout and makes his option mutual, you’d probably have to pick up most of his remaining salary and the buyout if you wanted any prospects of any value in return. If you didn’t care about prospects, maybe you could save 2-4 million by trading him. To me it’s not worth it.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Exactly, trade him and use the money to cover the salary of someone else you acquire
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I didn't want to do a release only option
but the point of that choice is more “get rid of Harang” and I wanted to lump all options into the same bucket.
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This is where your logic fell apart. :P
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i voted for trade
not release
they should have been two separate options, really…
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
yeah, they should have been
i would not be sad with a trade, but my first choice is moving him to the pen.
given that he has very little trade value
trading and releasing aren’t that far off from being the same thing.
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agreed
I’m not supporting releasing him. I’m just saying that tactically, they are not that different of options. At least not so different that they need to be separated on the list. In terms of what it means to the starting rotation, they are the same thing.
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getting something instead of nothing has some difference
unless that something is Chase Weems
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
A few more questions:
1) Should Volquez really go immediately into the starting rotation? Isn’t it normally said that pitchers are completely effective 18 months after TJ surgery?
2) What should happen when Homer Bailey comes back? He wasn’t exactly tearing it up, but still, he’s got lots of potential.
3) When does Arodis Chapman come up? I think he should’ve been starting through the All-star break so the Reds can build his innings for next year, but since he’s been in the bullpen, will he be given a shot in the bigs this year?
Not a bad problem to have. I’d love to have an ace in the mix instead of a rotation of #3’s!
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
I'm kind of worried about 1)
I don’t think it’s safe to rely on Volquez this season.
The Reds have enough pitchers that trading or releasing someone is possible, even without Volquez, but I think they should consider the possibility that he won’t really contribute much this year.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
He's been pretty dang effective in rehab starts.
"Red Reporter - An elitist clique full of like-minded douchebags." - BK
Some of us have been beating the trade Aaron Harang drum for over a year now.
We can’t expect that to happen now. Despite his trending numbers, he’s not going to able to shake the ace-in-decline stigma in the trade market.
I think we’re looking at Mike Leake to the bullpen first, and Travis Wood to the minors second when Volquez and Harang return.
by Brian B on Jul 12, 2010 2:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Duh, I mean after Maloney of course.
by Brian B on Jul 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What about trading Aroyo?
Is there any (realistic) possibility of this happening? If so, to who and for what?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions
I'm assuming the Reds aren't looking to shake things up that dramatically
which is why I don’t think trading Harang is a realistic option either.
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I agree. But I'd think trading Arroyo is more realistic than Harang. Also, his return
would be much better.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
someone (was it fya?)
said the reds might consider trading arroyo at the deadline because of his refusal to discuss restructuring his contract.
Here you guy, D.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/arroyo-wont-consider-restructuring-contract.html
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont get it
i think Bronson is dead red right on not restructuring his contract. he has lived up to his contract and should get paid accordingly. he hasnt missed a start. he voluntarily took the mound with three days rest on multiple occasions.
i take it as a major positive the kid won’t restructure. shows a little balls and confidence.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
it sounded to me like the reds wanted to sign him to a multi-year contract
but in order to afford it, they’d have to restructure. i don’t fault bronson for a second because he was burned by theo. that was just wrong.
I don't think anyone has a problem with his stance. And the only 'trade talk' has been pure speculation by Fay, who is usually wrong
It’s just that, if you know you won’t re-sign him, maybe you should see what you can get for him during the season. Which would be a fine idea if we were in 4th place, but I’m pretty sure Walt isn’t going to trade his most reliable starter in the middle of a pennant race.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
he would be insane to restructure
He’ll do just fine in FA when he hits.
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
how many RR'ers have restructured their salary, voluntarily?
why would we expect ballplayers to do so?
last i checked the beer prices at GABP have remained constant, if not increased….
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
himself
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
by jch24 on Jul 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
careful
im currently shopping online for your wedding gift.
i could go serious or sarcastic. im right on the borderline.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
I love to bowl
Get me a couple of 14 lb balls.
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
just use your testicles
you won’t need them anymore after you are married.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
by Slyde on Jul 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
he'll need them occasionally
so she can punch him in the ding ding!
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
jch's testicles are 14 lbs? I'm impressed!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
To both JCH's ding ding and the foot that hits his balls.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I love it that our euphemism of choice is "ding ding"
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Ding ding ding goes the bell!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Train Time!
train Xings are dangerous
breaking news, train hits semi truck in CHI
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Having played goalie for a floor hockey team without a cup
I can attest to this.
by Brendanukkah on Jul 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you won a bet
she has to love you forever!
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
yep
Suckered her ass into that one. :)
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I read that as 'sucked'
and didn’t think twice
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
hundred bucks says he's been there, done that
and posted a push pin on the wall
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
by obc2 on Jul 12, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so you shot one past the goalie?
this did seem kinda shotgun wedding-ish
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
this needs to be made clear
She is NOT pregnant.
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
YEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I read that as
I love to bowel
Get me a couple of 14 lb balls.
And I didn’t think twice.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Get him something seriously sarcastic!
Like a 90s stand-up comedian!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
his xFLIP is through the roof!
/hates himself for saying that
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Too much information!
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This will go green fast.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Arroyo will make more money if the Reds pick up his option in 2011 than if he tests FA
no team in their right mind should give him more than $9 MM per year.
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
there are a lot of teams that aren't in their right mind come wintertime, though
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I don't fault Bronson one bit for not wanting to restructure.
I dunno if I see it as quite the positive you do. We all know that Bronson’s got balls and confidence coming out the hutzpah – the way I would put it is that I would be worried if he did want to restructure.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
If I were Bronson
and the Reds offered me 4 years at 28M, I would take it. I doubt he will see more than $7M a season anyway.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
he’ll get at least 10 a year from somebody
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Jul 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He would have 3 years ago
but I don’t know if he will now. Salaries for none top end talent have dropped off.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
kyle lohse got 4/41 last year
bronson is a lot better than kyle lohse
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
okay
i just assumed GM’s stopped being idiots now that they have less money to waste.
Just, just wow.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Randy Wolf got 10 per for 3 years
just last offseason.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a great point, which brings us to the fact that he already has a contract
If you’re the Reds, and you hold a club option for what looks like at or above market value for an above average SP, wouldn’t it make sense to just pick up his option after the season instead of letting him go and going after a crappier pitcher for slightly less?
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Jul 12, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I like your think.
And if I’ve been drinking, maybe more. :P
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
no
b/c we don’t need Bronson Arroyo in 2011
Don’t waste the money
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
screw Arroyo
if the Reds are going to continue to cry poor and not increase the payroll, then guys like Arroyo need to take a pay cut if they wanna be a Red and think the Reds are legit.
If Arroyo doesn’t think the Reds are legit, then he should continue to be a mercenary and go test the open market after we decline his option.
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think he would be a fool to not listen to what the Reds have to say if they decline his option
He might not see more than 7 or 8 million a season anyway.
He could even demand a no-trade clause if he still has a bad taste in his mouth from Boston.
I am thrilled for your success, hell I'm amazed by it. Nobody who knows you saw this coming.
by justin007000 on Jul 13, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, Arroyo will get $10 million a year for 3 yrs easy
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I'm not so sure he'd listen if they decline his option
b/c I’m sure he thinks he’s worth the value of his option, and by declining the option the Reds are essentially saying “you’re worth less than $11MM per year”.
And why would the Reds decline his $11MM option only to then offer him at least the same amount?
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 13, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
2 great reasons:
draft picks. if they decline his option and offer him arbitration, i could see him earning ~$13 mil through arb. if he declines arb they get the draft picks. this is exactly what the Reds should do this offseason.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 13, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I did not realize he was arbitration eligible
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 13, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
a team can offer any impending free agent arbitration
the term “arb eligible” refers to a player with fewer than the 6 years required to reach free agency but more than 3 years. this is not to be confused with the process of offering arbitration to an impending free agent, which is done to either 1) attempt to retain the free agent for one more year at a (usually modestly) increased salary, or 2) get draft picks when the free agent signs a deal elsewhere. the team can only get draft picks though if the free agent is declared a type A or type B free agent, which is divined by casting lots.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 14, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
he is abitration eligable the way Weathers was between 2008 and 2009
I am thrilled for your success, hell I'm amazed by it. Nobody who knows you saw this coming.
by justin007000 on Jul 14, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
If Leake needs to decrease his innings he should go the pen
It doesn’t hurt that for the most part he’s a ground ball pitcher
That's why I chose Leake to the pen.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
same here, but if Harang struggles in August, I switch them and let a rested Leake make the final push.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
thinking the same thing
plus it’s Harangs back that’s hurt. That can be tricky the rest of the year.
I think it was just back spasms
which suck, but it much better than a structural issue with the back, which would be more likely to linger.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
yeah
i feel like Harang has missed a start or two in the past with minor back issues.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if most starting pitchers of his age could say the same thing.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that I wouldn't do yet, but would consider in the right circumstances, is sending Wood to the pen
I think his stuff would play up there, as he could probably throw the FB a bit harder in short stints. Obviously as long as he is effective in the rotation you leave him there, but if Bray struggles and we have too many starters, I’d definitely look into this.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Whatever else happens, Travis Wood needs to stay in the rotation. That guy is nails. And it's nice having a lefty for a change.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
To expand a bit more...
Wood’s minor league numbers suggest that he can repeat this success he has shown early in his first three starts. He’s thrown 650+ innings at the minor league level, he shows that he has plus stuff for a lefty, and I love that cutter and change as out pitches to righties. He’s been sitting at 90-92 with his fastball. They need to leave him be.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
we should induct him the Reds HOF and give him a ten year contract after those three starts
and none of them within the friendly confines of Homer-rama
Philly is a pitcher's park? Wrigley with wind blowing out?
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
Philly's a homer park after what you just saw?
No, I’m all for covering him in gold right now. I’ll even give him my Jack Armstrong starting the All-Star game bobble head as a diadem
A four-game set of hot starting pitching doesn't transform Philly to a pitcher's park...
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
whereas a three nice starts tranforms Wood into a guaranteed MLB starter for a contender
apples meet apples
man, you are obnoxious.
No, his rather stout minor leauge track record, his stuff, and what he has shown in his three starts does. He has done nothing to get the boot from the rotation, and should stay put over Harang’s creaky back or over Leake, who prob needs to have his innings shaved.
Wood provides a different look, plus stuff, and amazingly enough, no pitcher gets to b ea 10-year vet without being a rookie sometime. And, hey, some rookies can make huge positive impacts on teams in pennant races. I am willing to give Wood some more rope and see if maybe he is one such pitcher.
650+ minor league innings. 23-years-old. He has been developed beautifully by the Reds. I have no issues letting him get some run. Not sure why saying “Jack Armstrong” as some sort of boogeyman is supposed to be a cutting end to the discussion…Armstrong was a huge part of that hot start for the Red in 1990. Would they have been better off with John Stupor? He was pretty veteran…
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
point was, luck is luck
But, no one would disagree with the title of your comment, meaning I, once again, need to apologize. I am much more obnoxious on the internet than in person and sometime need reminded of that. I was especially obnoxious to you. Sorry.
Your argument has merits, but much like I said to NYC, I still disagree and I imagine the old school powers that be on the Reds will be unwilling that sort of drastic change.
Still, I forgot to put the “smiley face” thing on the “apples to apples,” because that analogy wasn’t even close to “apples to apples”. I was kidding (trying to make fun of me). Once I saw it, I thought sure someone would abuse me for it. It is — at best — bananas to plantains and even that is stretching it.
just out of curiosity...
…would you boot Jamie Garcia from the Cardinals’ rotation? Rookie lefty, doesn’t throw 95, insanely good numbers…luck?
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
luck and lack of depth (in other words, they have to use him)
Still, his MLB debut was in 2008 at the same time Travis Wood was getting shelled in AA. He was named to the Futures Game. His ERA won’t stay at 2.61, but he has great stuff.
so does Travis Wood.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
Wood's minor league numbers, if anyone wants a refresher
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wood—001tra
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
Once again with you and the straw man.
He has been very good. He’s been striking out a ton, and hasn’t been walking many. And yes, despite a couple of games to the contrary, Philly is a definite hitter’s park.
Add his great MLB start to his really great 1st half in AAA. What else do you want from the guy?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
to have 10 years of experience
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
well, he did suggest a 10 year contract, so maybe you're right!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
see Jack Armstrong above
hell, don’t anyone of you remember when Brett Tomko was an “ace” after a half of a season
to be 6 foot 5 and throw harder than 91
to have a Triple A FIP of better than 4.5
Plus, i think you need to look up what “strawman” means, because I was being sarcastic, not using a strawman.
All I’m saying is before I declare a guy can’t be removed from a rotation for a veteran innings-eater, I want more than three MLB starts from him.
honestly, then you should say that. Seems you consistently have a problem with being misunderstood
And Harang isn’t so much of an innings eater anymore. He hasn’t topped 200 IP since 07. He threw 162 last year and 184 the year before that. Travis Wood threw 176 last season. I’m not saying he’s a world-beater, but it’s awfully tough to just send him to AAA after what he’s done, especially in favor of the guy who’s been our worst starter.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Homer Bailey has been the worst starter
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
fine, jerk! I meant of those still in the discussion!
And it’s surprisingly close
Harang FIP-4.52
Bailey FIP-4.71
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
and, crazy enough, Arroyo sits in between the two at 4.63
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
yeah
i cant believe all the Harang-hating im hearing. dude hasnt been an ace, but he’s been fine. through roughly half the season, he has accumulated 1 WAR. extrapolate that over a full season and he’s a 2 WAR pitcher. what’s wrong with being average? he’s fine. leave him where he is.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll speak for myself. I don't hate Harang, I just think Volkie, Wood, Cueto, and Arroyo are more likely to be better for the second half
Leake probably too, but since he needs to rest, I’m fine with sending him to the pen and leaving Harang in there.
It’s just that if it comes down to Wood or Harang, I choose Wood. (again TWSS)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
problem is
you can send Wood back to AAA and call him back up when someone gets injured (and that will happen). you cant mess with Harang so easily. he may not be the best talent available to the Reds in this rotation pick ‘em, but he’s definitely the most cumbersome.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it, and I understand that's a real issue. I still think sending Ondrusek or Smith down and letting Harang have his innings wouldn't be a bad option
or, like I said below, keeping Harang in the rotation and sending Leake to the pen for a month or two until a starter turns into a pumpkin or gets injured.
Wood may suck (TWSS) but I think he’s earned the chance to stay until he does.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i think he's earned it too
but the fact is that we can only take 5 fine honeys to the springtime pumpkin dance and that means a few fine honeys are gonna be staying home that night.
i voted for Leake going to the ‘pen. i think he would do well in that role for the time being, and he is readily available when needed. i wouldnt be angry though if it’s Wood that gets sent out. he’ll get his chance and that right soon, i believe.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why on earth would you have a springtime pumpkin dance?
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
you gotta lose your virginity sometime, right?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm never eating pumpkin pie again
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I love pumpkin pie
especially with strawberry ice cream
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer peach cobbler for dessert
/beatentothepunch’d
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
I was hoping if I lobbed it up for you you'd knock it out of the park
which would prompt my typical MLB The Show reaction of giving up a homer as …. “Hmm”
And then drill Larry Whoremouth Jones
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
You IBB'd Gomes to get to Bruce
And it worked, damnit.
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
Gomes took me deep at least once that game
cuz all Jonny does is sit dead red, and I was stupid enough to give into his demands….
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 13, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Pumpkin dances belong in the fall!
Just like the World Series!
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
maybe he's in Australia
And celebrates Halloween in the spring?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
Disparaging the Springtime Pumpkin Dance is a bootable offense!
by Brendanukkah on Jul 12, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well done, also a fine Simpsons reference.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but to me Harang is the honey that was hottt in 8th grade, all the guys wanted her,
but now that she’s fully developed and a senior, she’s a bit chubby and frumpy and you realize she peaked too soon.
But you feel obligated to take her anyway because she was nice to you back when she was hot and you were bumbly and awkward, even though now you are one of the hottest guys in school and the new Swedish exchange student who just arrived really wants someone to go with.
You’re really going to leave the Swedish girl at home, Charlie? Really?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
You take the gal with the bigger tits.

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
knowing full well
i can nail the Swedish chick next month, yes. it’s all about getting the most play out of both of them. that’s the first lesson of the Tru Mac.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well done with The Simpsons reference.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing wrong with being average is being average while being paid like a star, hampering your team's payroll flexibility, which they may need to replace you.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
we are paying him the money whether he pitches or not
so i dont think that factors in the decision. he’s still pitching like an average pitcher and that is always useful, no matter how much he’s paid.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jul 12, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool, the vitriol's turned down
Look, I’m excited about Wood’s pitching, but let’s keep in mind a 1000 players have had three great debut starts. This team’s depth in competent pitchers is wonderful.
But, come on, NYC, you’re the one always lecturing me on prospect lists and scouting reports and minor league numbers, there’s an entire article that Charlie alluded to which shows Wood has been as good as Travis Wood can be and he still has a 4.52 FIP. That’s nothing to be ashamed of for sure, but it ain’t “send my Opening Day starter to the pen” good either.
BTW, where are you getting this 4.52 FIP from? Everything I find has it well below 3.5 this year and about 4.00 last year in AAA.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
From Charlie's Reposter
Knowing me, I probably read it wrong, but here’s the link and comment,
Per Minor League Splits, Wood’s performance at Louisville this season equates to a 4.58 major league FIP, with 7.3 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and 1.3 HR/9. CHONE’s rest-of-season-projection is similar — a 4.58 neutralized ERA, with 7.4 K/9, 3.7 BB/9 and 1.3 HR/9. Should Wood remain in the major league rotation, those forecasts look about right to me — near perfecto aside, he’s more of a serviceable big league arm than a future star.
right EQUATES to a major league FIP of 4.52. His ACTUAL FIP in AAA is 3.26 according to that site...much different.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
stupid inconventient facts.
17 Ks in 20 innings in the bigs so far. Only five walks. Mets and Phillies good teams in a race, pretty stout tests. And he’s been phenomenal.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
see, I told you I read it wrong
On the other side, NYC, I heard some baseball people in the media raving about his change-up and, as the article noted, he got more swings at his stuff outside the zone than the average MLB start, so maybe his change-up is that rare entity that gets better hitters out more than it gets weaker hitters out? That logic goes that MLBer’s are sitting on it, but can’t hit it hard (movement, location…something), whereas minor leaguers would just take it for a ball.
are you at all familar with Wood from the minors?
The change has been ranked among the best in minor league baseball. His fastball was sitting at 90-92, giving the change even more bit. He’s added a cutter.
Whatever. I don’t get the pre-disposition to hate youth, myself. He looks like he belongs. He’s conquered every level he’s pitched at.
I am comfortable with him in this rotation.
Just out of curiosity, I would bet Tom Browning didn’t set scouts hearts aflutter with his “stuff” coming out of the minors either. Most prospects don’t throw 97…
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
yes, i familar with him not being on Reds prospect lists in 2008
and I’m familiar with the prediction that his ceiling would be back of the rotation starter.
Since that’s been the story on him since day one, I actually will reserve judgment for now. Sometimes, scouts are wrong.
Vis a vis Browning:
Browning began the 1984 season with Class-AAA Wichita, where he went 12-10 with a league-high 160 strikeouts. On July 31 of that year, he threw a seven-inning no-hitter against Iowa and later earned a September call-up to play for Pete Rose’s Cincinnati Reds. In his major-league debut, Browning beat Orel Hershiser and the Los Angeles Dodgers while pitching 8 1/3 innings and giving up just one run. He’d finish the year 1-0 with a 1.54 ERA to retain his spot on the major-league club the following season.
Tom’s first full season, much like Travis Wood’s should, began the year after his debut. Let’s hope he replicates Browning 20-9 1985 season
well, so far in the bigs he's only thrown his CH 13% of the time, compared to 60% for the FB and 20% for the cutter
Honestly, I think the discovery of the cutter has been what has propelled him to such effectiveness. You don’t need a blazing FB if you have another FB-type pitch that moves differently and comes in 4 mph slower, combined with a crazy good changeup.
His biggest concern has been control, and I’m sure we’ll see that regress a bit, but so far there is nothing fluky in his numbers or performances.
Another thought. His scouting report out of college was that he was all fastball and nothing else. Yet now he has one of the best changeups in the minors, certainly in the organization. Perhaps he just has a good feel for that offspeed stuff, so the cutter and change are good enough that he doesn’t need to throw 95. ( but again, he was consistently touching 92 which is not nothing)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
28 walks in 108.2 IP is a concern?
I’ll take that. He’s been much better than advertised. Every scouting report I’ve seen up to this year is about his great changeup, but that he tops out at 88-89. Throwing 93-94 has his ceiling going even higher, especially with that effective changeup and cutter.
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Jul 12, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wood is growing on me
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
better than growin in you, I suppose
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
by jch24 on Jul 12, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Beat me to it
"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin
by BK on Jul 12, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
TWSS
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
ftfy
better than growin going in you, I suppose
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
IP
other than Arroyo no one is averaging 7 IP per start, and that’s during a hot streak.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
Wood would be. You kinda have to disocunt his middle start when he took the bullet and pitched on three days rest to help the team out.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
by membengal on Jul 12, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Harang threw a shutout on 3 days rest in 2006
NO EXCUSES!
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That was four years ago, let it go
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
And that's the only reason I keep harping on keeping him around
The cost of keeping Arroyo around is definitely going to be high and that makes me cringe. However, with all of the young arms but uber-talented arms that will be around for awhile still need to get settled in and will likely be inconsistent for awhile, I like having a guy who will eat up 200+ innings, not be on the DL, and start whenever asked.
Harang used to be that guy, but he’s not anymore.
by Hawkeyegirl96 on Jul 12, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
...er, "discount'. Bad typo.
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
if I am going to have a typo, might as well make it memorable..
When not lurking here, the sportsfrog is where I am.
Voted for trade
not release. not quite sure why they arent two seperate options since they are very different things
He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife.
not with Harang's trade value
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Playoffs
Make Mike Leake the closer; that’ll get us to the playoffs.
what about this?
just thinking out loud and know it will never happen, but what about having a six man rotation, but keeping arroyo and harang (and cueto?) on their normal four days rest. that would give the young arms an extra day of rest but still stay in the rotation throughout the season. leake definitely needs to be in any post season rotation.
I'd give Cueto the extra rest too. P
Problem is, you can’t keep Arroyo and Harang normal and only give the rest 1 extra day. Mathematically you’d have to be giving some of those guys 3 or 4 extra days to make the numbers work out. Not that that would be terrible, but it seems like a really complicated solution.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i could dig that
But what would that do to owings and his “long relief” role? Would that mean hed be our default rh pop off the bench, or do we carry an extra pitcher?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 12, 2010 2:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Right
It’s not a terrible idea, but the bullpen has been a big trouble spot. An extra day of starter rest does not necessarily translate to longer outings, so the bullpen could be taking on more innings with less arms. They need as much flexibility as possible to counteract the unevenness. Of course, this is all apart from Dusty’s usage of the ’pen – which might be an argument in favor of a six man rotation.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a slightly different idea
Go to the 6 man, and demote Owings. If a long man is needed the Reds could use whomever is scheduled to pitch the following day.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't demote Owings, as he is out of options.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you can try
i don’t really care if the Reds lose Owings.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I was sure that Owings was out of options.
I was also wrong.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i heard that the reds are going to trade arroyo and dickerson for hanley
although a lot of people on twitter messaged me to tell me THAT’S A STUPID RUMOR and that I must be AN IDIOT TO BELIEVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Im pretty sure it’s true though.
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
jch is the reloader and the deleter
i just go with the flow
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
i like Boosinho more
although Rick House is my favorite.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's read as "Boozin' Ho"
it’s much better.
Calmer than you are.
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Jul 12, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed 100 fold!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
In a normal season
I would have expected there to be an option to vote “boobs.” I guess winning changes everything!
"We don't worry about the pennant much, we just like to see the boys hit it deep."
I'm above such shenanigans
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
sooooo.....
does jch retire from Modship post-wedding vows?
discuss.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
if he does do we have to throw him a retirement party?
i’m not paying for a stripper.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Strippers at retirement parties?
Fuck the heck do you work?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you ever really RETIRE from a strip club?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Eventually you have to leave the pole, be it by choice, homicide, or overdose.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
thanks Petey
I just spit wine all over my living room
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
you forgot the court system, friend
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
the court system prefers they have employment
by Highlifeman21 on Jul 12, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
only so the court system has somewhere to spend happy hour
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
Begins slow clap
Green’d
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 13, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
if that were true, wouldn't the retirement party involve everyone putting on their clothes?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
a middle school, haha
I just figured RR combined with jch getting married called for it.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
will there be an Eyewitness Report
or will the foursquare check in suffice?
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
that's the pre-marriage arrangement
my sources say he’s getting a chip implant in his neck after the honeymoon.
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
he's getting a nose ring
moooooooooo!
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
shoulda talked her into the tongue
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
You know what Chris Rock says about that....
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
Did they ever hook together?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that you were or weren't doing it right?
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm rec'ing this because you were able to
decipher my poor English!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It does not surprise me one bit that you used to have your tongue pierced
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
im writing one on the 1991 Reds
that team seems to get lost in the shuffle…
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
i wrote one about the 1994 Reds
but it was never finished.
by Daedalus on Jul 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I wrote a two volume book about the 1981 Reds
But they did hold up as separate works.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I wrote one about the 1919 Reds that was actually quite good
but it gets very little credit because other baseball books that year sucked
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
i made a straight-to-cable movie about bo diaz
but it got crushed by satellite
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Jul 12, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
this disproves my theory that every bo diaz joke gets a green
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
I just disproved your dispoval
"so there was a reason firefox said i spelled that wrong" -- justin007000
too soon
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So your real name is Susan Dellinger?
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
shit
I meant didn’t. Now is it so funny?
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody rec'd this?
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I started writing a book about the 1994 Expos
but I couldn’t finish it and then someone stole it and put a different cover on it.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
That's ok. At the end of the day we're only reading laundry anyway.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Also, most of the best parts were stolen away and used in other books!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and some of them made really those other books really great
which made me wish my book had gotten finished.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
clearly, I've never written a book anyone can understand
except for English As An Eleventh Language!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Yeah, but it's made out of chalk. One good rain and we're good.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
My buddy spray-painted a foursquare court on his driveway. We play regularly.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, seriously.
No, I am not featured in that video.
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
does anyone have access to the baseball america story about mesoraco et al?
care to enlighten the rest of us?
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
the Reds midseason report?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
basically, Terry Reynolds is quoted saying, about Devin,
“Everything has been really good,” farm director Terry Reynolds said. “His receiving, throwing and game-calling have all been solid. He’s everything all the scouts thought he’d be when we took him.”
So he’s been great. Valaika is the guy on the rise, and Reynolds figures it’s because often guys take a while to get adjusted to AAA. He said Frazier is going through the same thing right now.
Yonder was the guy “taking a step back” because he’s not hitting and they gave up the LF experiment.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
really? damn. i sent a check, i'll have to see if it ever got cashed. (not that I don't trust you, just want to see if some rotten postal worker stole it!)
I’ll put it in the mail this week. Sorry about that!
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
it never got cashed, i assume, because i havent cashed any of the checks yet
which reminds me, i havent cashed anyone’s check yet. I’ll do it this week.
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
banks stale date them after 6 months
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
so take note, everyone who sent me a check: You will be getting $10 poorer today!
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
the grim reaper doesn't do craigslist
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
You haven't checked out the personals ... that's some deadly shit.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i have a paypal account
paypal charges a fee though. i just find that using checks works best
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
i recommend sending straight cash, homey
"Yahan Sentona's strikeouts are way down this year" Jake Liscow
there's also a duplicate of that post on my screen with only the "post" option instead of preview, post, and cancel
weird
its not a fail, i deleted that one but you havent refreshed yet
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
As much as it pains me to say
’penning Harang on his return probably yields the Reds best available starting rotation, which would be:
Cueto
Volquez
Leake
Arroyo
Wood
Harang could Zambrano back to the rotation when Leake goes to the ’pen, based on effectiveness and/or innings count, though I think it fairly unlikely the Reds would move Harang out of the rotation, barring a pretty serious collapse.
Wood, since the beginning of the ‘09 season (between AA, AAA and his brief stint in the majors), has been pretty fabulous. He’s only 23, but has logged six seasons in the minors. If given the chance, the second half could really be a coming out party for him.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
I'd send Leake to AAA
He has done a fine job, but he isn’t needed right now, and he is falling off a bit. Plus if the Reds send him down now, he might not be a supper 2.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
Doesn't he know about second breakfast?
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
or fourth meal?

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
Should just say
4th Meal – the meal where you are really gonna get fat!
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
Honestly, who's Taco Bell trying to fool?
You know they wanted to call this ad campaign “Drunk Meal” but the suits wouldn’t let them.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
WEED MEAL
"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker
by PeteyHendrix on Jul 12, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If they send him down now
he might be a super 2. If they keep him up, he most definitely won’t be a super 2.
Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!
pitching
caberra is the one to trade, he lets some one on base every time he pitches. chech how meny times he has got the other teams out 1 2 3 . make 1 of the young guns the closer
Wut?
Our you sentencing korrectly?
It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
I would send Wood back to AAA
1) Leake can pitch in the rotation for a while longer, then perhaps get skipped 2-3 times until September when he’ll be preserved for the playoffs while pitching in the pen.
Playoff rotation:
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Harang
2) Wood shouldn’t go to the pen so early, either. And Harang is a starter, not a reliever. It’s like BP at SS, not happening. So it’s one or the other – and Harang is the one. Wood goes to AAA until September and comes back to help the rotation get some rest for the playoffs.
so you like counting on Volquez to be our staff ace in the playoffs, even though he hasn't pitched in the MLB in a year, and hasn't pitched effectively in 16 months,
but you want to send the guy who almost just threw a perfect game back to AAA, just because Harang is a starter, not a reliever?
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
We don't have a choice
None of those others are ace material. For this team to win in the playoffs, I think we’ll need Volquez to be lights-out. Not saying it will happen, but that’s what we’ll need.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I agree, this was mainly a rant against timb who seems to hate Wood. (TWSS)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I like the TWSS
Hate wood. Hell, no. I’m just a little less likely to swoon over three starts. To me, it seems like my reserved judgment over Leake was appropriate.
Face it, pitching is hard and there aren’t a lot of savants in the world. I don’t think Wood is Fernando or Doc Gooden. Heck, I’m not sure he’s Joba “according-to-Yankee-fans-going-to-be-a-20-game-winner-in-2008” Chamberlian
Remember Clay Buchholz. How long did it take for him to be good? Imagine making organizational decisions based upon three starts….
Ummm, Leake has been our 2nd best pitcher so far.
And there’s a difference between swooning and saying that it seems more likely that Wood will be the better pitcher over the next 3 months than Harang.
And if pitching is so hard, how come Volquez will find it so easy? (FTR, I really hope he does, but I’ll withhold judgment for now)
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
the guys I was responding to were swooning. You're just the stats bully who tried to sucker punch me
You know I’m kidding about the punching, right?
As for Volquez, we’ll both withhold judgment!
We'll see how Leake is faring in another couple of months
It is a long season for the young man
Though some might argue that "best utility player" is a contradiction in terms.
BuubaFan...
Interestngly
Buchholz’s xFIP this year is almost identical to his major league xFIP from two years ago; he’s just getting a lot luckier this year. BABIP, LOB%, and HR/FB all went from unlucky to lucky.
Swooning is rarely advisable
but it’s more than 3 starts we’re talking about here. Buccholz only had three seasons in the minors when he broke camp with the Sox in ‘08. Wood had been in the minors since 2005 when he made his debut this year, and he’s been the system’s best pitcher for the past season and a half. And he nearly made the rotation out of spring training.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well put. That' the basic point.
Trade / Cut Harang is not feasible. Neither is saying, “Here is 6 million to pitch in the pen, something you’re unaccustomed to, with a balky back.”
I like Wood a lot, but it’s just not the best option at the moment. I’d rather tell him hell of a job and you’ll be right back up here soon.
As for Volquez, I’m not sure if you’re implying the Wood can help if he’s not healthy, but all reports are that he is healthy. I think the Reds will be relying on him for big production in the second half. He’s the best candidate for the “Ace” label, IMO.
I'm the only one who thinks a 17 game winner might be decent?
What I am comfortable with is trading for an ace (and if that includes trading either dart-throwing lefty currently with then score me as being in favor of that too).
Besides, while I agree with the comments on Aaron as a set-up guy (Slyde’s analysis), this team won’t do that to Aaron Harang for a host of reasons, first and foremost, Dusty isn’t gonna do it.
This season:
Average FB velocity
Harang: 90.5 mph
Wood: 90.4 mph.
And I’ll take Wood’s secondary stuff every day.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
I agree that Harang is unlikely to be moved to the bullpen when he returns
but sticking Wood back in AAA reflexively is adherence to a non-merit-based seniority system that shouldn’t exist in baseball. Wood has six years of professional seasoning and its been pretty evident in his last season and a half as the best pitcher in the farm system.
And Volquez and Leake’s performance as front of the rotation starters over the second half is very far from a sure thing.
Yeah, those guys and the Cincinnati Reds. They're a terrible football team. / Because they're a baseball team? / Exactly. You know who's the worst football team? The Philadelphia Flyers. - Best Show
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Jul 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
But it's assumed in this article that they will both be ready and available to pitch when Harang comes off the DL
So if Wood has to go to AAA, he’ll both understand and be back within 10-45 days. No big deal.
Honestly I really don't konw what to do
and I don’t think I will fault the Reds for whatever decision that make. This is the best problem the Reds have ever had.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
O/T Looks like we'll miss Jimenez
He’s scheduled to pitch the fourth game for the Rockies after the break. So, we’ve got that going for us.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I'm conflicted about this...
I really wanted to see him pitch, but it would be great for the Reds to see him pitch.
On second thought, are you sure that is the case? He will pitch at most 3 innings on Tuesday, and he hasn’t pithed since 7/8.
Watch it, ass blood.
A lot of folks are talking about how you basically can't trade Harang because of his perceived low value...
I can’t think of a specific trade where this would work, but what if he were a part of a trade along with a Reds prospect / rookie that would balance out Harang’s perceived price-tag over value? Could an Alonso/Harang or Harang + (Heisey or Stubbs or Dickerson) trade net us anything of value?
yes, but not as much as if you just traded the prospect by themselves. (this is assuming Harang is not desirable, which is a safe assumption right now)
So if you package Harang with someone, the question is why make the trade? If it’s to get a return, you should just make the trade w/out Harang. If it is to get rid of Harang, then the question becomes is getting rid of Harang worth losing the prospect? If the Reds really want to get rid of him, they should just try to trade him and agree to eat a bunch of the salary. Since they won’t do that, (and they shouldn’t), he’s not going anywhere.
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
no, it actually makes sense
If the Reds trade for another starting pitcher. So if they were able to get Haren for Alonso, they might thrown in Harang so that Arizona still has a starter. The Reds would likely have to eat some of his salary to get this move to work. It’s a more common trade move with position players as those aren’t easily replaceable.
/kicksJCHinthedingding
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Trying to salvage this...
… why isn’t Votto in the HR derby tonight which would naturally lead to a “game” thread? I’m sure that’s what jch was asking.
The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!
I have mixed feelings about Votto not being in the HRD.
While it would give him (and therefore the Reds) a bigger spotlight, it would also give him (and therefore the Reds) a bigger spotlight.
It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
This is great.
Jamie Ramsey has posted pics of the Reds at media day for the ASG.
Joey looks comfy yet nice, BP looks smooth, Rolen looks like a homeless person, and Arthur Rhodes looks like what else?
A Bad-Ass
see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka
by nycredsfan on Jul 12, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow, King Arthur does look pretty snappy.
This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.
"Hey, I'm serious. He dropped the weed. I knows it. I ain't doing time for this!"
![]()
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he did fly practically cross-country to be there THIS MORNING.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah not bashing him
I imagined Rolen would look that way anyway though. I cn’t imagien him dressing up like Arthur.
He looks like Billy Ray Cyrus
It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
by Travis Rehl on Jul 13, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
see

It is the soothing thing about history that it does repeat itself. -Gertrude Stein
by Travis Rehl on Jul 13, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he's totally hitting that
Retractions are for journalists! -Gray
by boobs on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Completely fucking creepy.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 13, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Rolen looks like my son there
Though some might argue that "best utility player" is a contradiction in terms.
BuubaFan...
BP looks awesome
he looks like a Hollywood celebrity. The comment on Jamie’s blog said Joey looked “especially Canadian”. Actually, his ensemble reminds me more of Shawn from Psych than Canadians.
Rhodes looks fantastic. Suit is really nice.
nice pics
That plaid shirt of Joey’s looks so…Canadian. :-)
Leiter’s grinning like a fool. Did someone whisper “1999” in his ear or what?
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
This kind of looks
like he is saying, “remember my collision at homeplate this year? That could be you”.
nice of him to shave the head, cheeks,
chest, arms for his big day in the spotlight
"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander
It looks like Joey got his shirt on a Canadian clearnace rack
![]()
Just get him some Red and Green suspenders.
The 2010 Reds: or how Scott Rolen Taught me to stop Worrying and love Cold Play.
by justin007000 on Jul 12, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There is nothing wrong with Canadians or clearance racks.
Joey looks damn good, as usual.
by the finest muffins on Jul 13, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Give him a suit

He looks like Michael Corleone.
I am thrilled for your success, hell I'm amazed by it. Nobody who knows you saw this coming.
by justin007000 on Jul 13, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
That's ethnicist!
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 13, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
this whole "pitching surplus" thing has me stupified
How many Homer-to rumors did we see over the last few years get shot down? I’m pretty confident he’s been a much, much bigger disappointment to the Reds brass than we let on. We have what, 9 pitchers that are mlb ready, and even when healthy he’s likely the 9th best. I know they didn’t have the best trade opps for him in the past (from what we know), but are we going to be stuck with him now hurt and worth half of what we couldve sold high on? He projects terribly as a closer and is likely an AAA pitcher when he comes back. With aroldis on the way soon, where does he fit?
Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.
by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jul 12, 2010 6:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I put him above LeCure and equal with Maloney
unless he goes to the pen. I see that as the only outcome where he ever manages to be above average for a season
meh not as big a deal as ur making it
you don’t have to always try to squeeze something out of everything. They kept Bailey when it looked like they needed starters. I have nothing against what they did with him.
Here's a question
Chapman: Are we seeing any of him at all this year for the Reds? Or do we have to wait unti next year?
Visit Inside The Shoe
The Buckeye blog for every fan!
by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jul 12, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions
He'll appear in the bullpen, my guess is when the rosters expand.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A f*ckin' playground for the cocks*ckers.
-Lee Elia on Cubs fans
by Farneyismycopilot on Jul 12, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure hope so.
So damn excited for that kid.
Visit Inside The Shoe
The Buckeye blog for every fan!
by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jul 13, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't have time to look at all the posts
so I apologize if this has already been said.
Keep Harang out and keep Wood in until Leake hits his IP mark. Send Leake to minors, bring up Harang.
And not so much
because of Woods 3 previous starts, but because he could use experience. Maybe Harang will also find his way into the bullpen.
Nice problem to have
Having too many starting pitchers is a nice problem to have. At the same time, we have at least another two hot months to go where the heat can sap energy out of even the best. I think we need to keep them for now. Leake can be even better than Owings in hitting so I would say Micah could be a trade if we put Leake in the pen so that we don’t overuse his arm and get Leake for occasional pinch hitting. We need to watch Cueto’s development as well so he does not become another Volquez under Baker. Reds also need a reliable mid-innings reliever who can give you 2 to 5 innings of no run ball to keep the opposition close. Leake could be a better choice than Harang in that role.
he won't get us Adam Dunn?
I am thrilled for your success, hell I'm amazed by it. Nobody who knows you saw this coming.
by justin007000 on Jul 13, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted "Other"
I think you put Volquez in the bullpen to make sure his stamina and command are where you need him to be. I’m not sold that his rehab starts are going to translate immediately into Major League success; he can get by at that level on pure stuff. If his command is off, a AAA player trying to prove something might swing at a pitch out of the zone where a Major League hitter is going to let the pitch go.
I think you’re going to have to shut down Leake in early September anyway. Volquez gets 6 weeks as the long man out of the ‘pen, working 3-4 innings at a time when a starter gets chased early. As long as he’s pitching well, he moves into the rotation when you shut Leake down for the season. If a pitcher gets injured or sucks for an extended period of time, maybe he moves to the rotation earlier. But, I think the best plan is to start him in the bullpen to make sure his command is where you need it before you’re counting on him to win you games in the Bigs.
"Bitch slap your goldfish folks, we're all screwed."
-KevinMitchellisBatman
Haven't read all the comments yet
but I voted “Other”
And I would shop any list of Arroyo, Harang, Maloney, LeCure, Boxberger in hopes of upgrading our rotation. Best case, we upgrade our rotation, our bullpen and our SS.
So while Trade Harang was an option, I wouldn’t limit it to just trading him when he comes off the DL.
What about trading Arroyo and Lecure and Yonder Alonso
for a really good upgrade at either SS or Catcher?
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jul 13, 2010 2:36 AM EDT reply actions
Huh, I don't see it as an option....
I’d put Harang on the 60-day DL for a bad back, retroactive to July 1st. Gets us an exemption on the roster, we can use him in the minors (as “rehab starts”), we have him available in the event one of our 5 best’s arms fall off, etc.
I’m really having a hard time seeing this as worse than trading, releasing, sending Wood back down, etc.
That is a terrible idea
if a couple of pitchers go down in August the Reds are hurting.
I am thrilled for your success, hell I'm amazed by it. Nobody who knows you saw this coming.
by justin007000 on Jul 13, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a considerable improvement...
over releasing him or trading him for next to nothing, should somebody get hurt.

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