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Jocketty's Trade History Means Reds Fans Can Be Confident That Problems Will Be Fixed

As the season presses on with the Reds now tied for first place in the National League Central, there are some obvious holes that need to be filled if they hope to stay in contention. The biggest hole is clearly in the bullpen, where there is very little in the way of reliability out there right now. Thankfully, the Reds aren't oblivious to their holes, and also thankfully they have a GM that has proved himself to be quite proficient over the years at improving his team as the season goes on.

Looking back at Walt Jocketty's time in St. Louis, we see that the Cardinals were in the pennant race in mid-July (i.e. less than 5 games back on 7/15) in 8 of his 14 seasons as the general manager. In 6 of those 8 seasons, Jocketty made significant in-season deals to try to improve his team. Let's take a look at those deals and their outcomes:

1997:

Date Acquired From Traded
6/13/1997 Scott Livingstone, Phil Plantier, Fernando Valenzuela SDP Rich Batchelor, Danny Jackson, Mark Sweeney
7/31/1997 Mark McGwire OAK Eric Ludwick, TJ Mathews, Blake Stein

The first deal was a bunch of junk for a bunch of junk. Everyone involved with the deal was out of baseball after the 1997 season except Scott Livingstone, who had 118 PA for Montreal in 1998, and Mark Sweeney, who played 11 more seasons as a pinch hitter/5th outfielder, posting a .248/.340/.393 line after the deal. None of the players acquired by Jocketty a positive contribution to the Cardinals in 1997.

The second deal ended up being perhaps the most important deal Jocketty would make with the Cardinals. McGwire led the AL in home runs at the time of the trade, and would go on to hit 24 more homers for the Cardinals in 1997, batting .253/.411/.684 along the way. While McGwire wasn't able to help the Cardinals to the playoffs that year, the positive vibe in St. Louis led to a contract extension for him, which meant that his 70 HR campaign in 1998 took place in the Lou, drawing fans in droves and revitalizing baseball in the city. The new influx of fans increased Jocketty's budget and gave him the opportunity to make deals for key cogs as the years went on.

2000:

Date Acquired From Traded
7/29/2000 Mike Timlin
BAL Chris Richard, Mark Nussbeck
7/31/2000 Will Clark
OAK Jose Leon

The Cardinals 2000 team was a lot like this 2010 Reds team. They were scoring a ton of runs (5.8 RS/G thru the end of July), but they were also giving up quite a few (5.1 RA/G thru July). A big problem was the bullpen, who had only closer Dave Veres (3.26 ERA in 44 G thru July) as a reliable option. At this point in the season, the bullpen had 5 different guys who had pitched in at least 14 games and had an ERA over 5.25. They clearly needed some help and Timlin came in to solidify the 'pen a bit. Improvements from Mike James and the emergence of Matt Morris, who was coming off of Tommy John surgery (*cough* Edinson Volquez *cough*), also helped.

Will Clark was acquired at the deadline to fill in for the injured McGwire who missed most of July and all of August in 2000. Clark basically carried the team to the playoffs, batting .345/.426/.655 in 51 games with the Redbirds, who went on to win the division by 10 games. It looked like St. Louis was going to revitalize another career, but at 36, Clark decided to call it quits after the 2000 season.

Star-divide

2002:

Date Acquired From Traded
7/19/2002 Chuck Finley
CLE Coco Crisp, Luis Garcia
7/29/2008 Scott Rolen, Doug Nickle
PHI Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin, Bud Smith
8/25/2002 Jeff Fassero
CHC Jared Blasdell, Jason Karnuth
8/29/2002 Jamey Wright
MIL Mike Matthews, Chris Morris

The good thing about Jocketty is that he doesn't waste time standing around. When Daryl Kile died on June 22, the Cardinals needed to find a quality replacement in the starting rotation. Less than month later, they had 7-time 16-game winner Chuck Finley in the fold. Finley went 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA over 14 starts with the Carindals before retiring at the end of the year.

Jocketty's also not afraid to make a blockbuster deal during the season, as he did when he traded for a disgruntled Scott Rolen from Philadelphia. We all know how Rolen went on to be a corner piece of the Cards over the next 5 years, and while Jocketty gave up a pretty good return (maybe one of the best he's ever surrendered), he still got a player that solidified not only the 2002 team, but the franchise for several years.

Jeff Fassero and Jamey Wright are two more examples of Jocketty bringing in players to tweak the bullpen or the rotation. Fassero was strong over the last month of the season, pitching in 16 games with a 3.00 ERA. Wright, well, he filled a need for a starting pitcher for a month.

2003:

Date Acquired From Traded
8/22/2003 Sterling Hitchcock
NYY Ben Julianel, Justin Pope
8/27/2003 Mike DeJean
MIL Mike Crudale, John Novinsky

Looking back, I get the impression that Jocketty may not thought he had much with this team and therefore held off on any deals before the deadline. However, after the Cards made a run at the Astros and Cubs in early August, he probably felt like he should get something done. Trading for Hitchcock worked, as he the lefty went 5-1 with a 3.79 ERA over 8 games, but the DeJean move only had mediocre results as he posted a 4.00 ERA over 18 innings for the Cards, who finished the season in 3rd place, 3 games out.

2004:

Date Acquired From Traded
8/6/2004 Larry Walker
COL Luis Martinez, Chris Narveson, Jason Burch

When the Cardinals made the deal for Walker, they had a 10.5 game lead in the division and the best record in baseball, but the deal was made for the playoffs. Walker gave the team another potent bat in front of Albert Pujols and Rolen. And while Walker hit very well for the Cards over the last two months (.280/.393/.560), he was even better in the playoffs (.293/.379/.707). Walker went on to play one more season with the Cards before hanging up the spikes.

2006:

Date Acquired From Traded
7/5/2006 Jeff Weaver
ANA
Terry Evans
7/30/2006 Ronnie Belliard
CLE
Hector Luna
7/31/2006 Jorge Sosa
ATL Rich Scalamandre

The thing about the moves that Jocketty makes is that they always seem to have a way of working out to the best case scenario for the acquired player (look at Scott Rolen for the Reds as an example). It's safe to say that that wasn't the case with the deals he made in 2006. Weaver (5-4, 5.18 ERA), Belliard (.237/.295/.371), and Sosa (5.28 ERA in 30.2 IP) all performed well below what Jocketty was hoping for. Ironically, it didn't matter as the team went on to win the World Series that year, though Weaver and Belliard both ended up being major contributors during the playoffs.

In summary, I think history has shown that the Reds are in pretty good hands with Jocketty around the trade deadline. Almost all of the deals that he makes work out well for his team and it is rare for him to make a deal that flat-out hurts the team. Part of that is because you rarely see Jocketty make a move out of desperation. Keeping that cool head will hopefully mean good things for the Reds as they try to fill the gushing hole in the bullpen and give the city their first playoff run in more than a decade.

Special thanks to Fungoes for their list of Walt Jocketty's trade history with the Cardinals.

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Holy crap

Fernando Valenzuela was still pitching in 1997?

by Brendanukkah on Jun 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Was it in Cuba?

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Honestly

the only reason I even remember it, was we were listening to the radio on the way home from the game, and the host said it was probably going to be Fernando’s last start.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was an honest question

Since I won’t click the link on my phone

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

oh

it was a link to the box score from his final start, it was in Cincinnati.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He pitched in the Mexican Winter League

in 2006.

I love the completely arbitrary design near his el paquete.

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotta sell ads and make that money.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fat Vegas Fernando

chairman of the committee

by boobsinho on Jun 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice job

Funny, I was planning on doing something like this sometime this weekend. The biggest thing that jumps out at me is that Walt
is a pretty good judge of minor league talent based on his trade history. He never gave up any prospects that turned out to be really special (or even many everyday players), so I think we’re in good hands.

"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin

by BK on Jun 16, 2010 2:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Stewart has kinda tanked this year.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just looked up his numbers, he has turned it around

his era was at 6, now it is down to 4.5.

His K/9 and BB/9 have both regressed this year.

In 2009 his K/9 was 8, and his BB/9 was 2.7.

This year his K/9 is 6.8 and his BB/9 is 3.8.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe it's just

that the odds are against any prospects turning out to be really special.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jun 16, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

//Bailey'd

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good point

OTOH, you’d be hard pressed to find a GM with such a history of giving up guys who amount to nothing and getting guys who do so consistently well

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

To expound,

Just like prospects often do nothing, ‘proven’ veterans often get traded and disappoint for their new teams

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 3:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

//Dempster'd

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is an article, some of you may remeber, by our old

Fay, Tim Sullivan, from a couple of years ago. It includes some great commentary on Jocketty by former Padres GM Kevin Towers:

On the other extreme stands the inscrutable Walt Jocketty, the Cincinnati GM who cut some of the deals Towers most regrets while running the St. Louis Cardinals.

"He’s tough," Towers said. "He’s such a likable guy, but I can’t read him. I’ve never been able to read him. And I mean that in a good way. He kind of reels you in and plays hard to get.

"It’s kind of like the Sadie Hawkins dance. That first dance is so special, then, all of a sudden she’s in the bathroom with her friends for an hour. You want to know: ‘When is she going to come out and engage me again?’ "

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Walt sounds like a stuck up bitch

"aaron harnann is so aweseom" - justin

by BK on Jun 16, 2010 2:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He sounds like the girl I took to Jr prom

Who was also, coincidentally, the reason I skipped sr prom

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It happened to me

at Sr. prom. I was left alone listening to “Stairway to Heaven”

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I went to a bunch of proms

Never got lucky once. Buncha stuck up bitches and their morals. :)

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

there were a few babies born nine months after the prom

when I was in high school, but in general, most guys struck out. We spent way too much time and money on our hair and our makeup and our dresses to mess it up with a roll in the hay. Or even a makeout session in the backseat.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jun 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't be the only one who enjoyed this.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm confused

You had better things to do with her when Sr. prom rolled around, or the experience was so bad that you skipped Sr. prom?

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The latter, unfortunately

I realize the connection is not coincidental at all. I apologize for the confusion.

Turns out I couldve taken the prom queen my senior year (Connery’d) but went to a music festival instead.

Best decision ever.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

prom queen's are a pain in the ass.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

My HS sweetheart

She was a living doll at 15 or so, but…I ran into her 25 years later in a bar and she turned into a fat, drunken barfly.. You have no idea how relieved I was that she dumped me back then.

If life is short what else have you been doing that has actually taken any longer?

by Yeah-Yeah on Jun 16, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hi, hello, and welcome

I too have one of those, I’m about to marry her friend that I dumped her for. :)

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

is the fat bafly your ex-wife?

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

Girl I dated in HS, she’s has gone (ahem) downhill since then.

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

EVERY GAL WHO HAS BROKEN UP WITH ME SINCE HS HAS GOTTEN ROTUND.

Warning you now, Mrs. Petey. :P

"Don't turn off the TV if we've still got bats in our hands." - Dusty Baker

by PeteyHendrix on Jun 16, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

are they still friends?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Jun 16, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somewhat

Although that put quite the crimp in their friendship at the time. She’s (non-peach) fb friends with both of us as well and lost her mind (imagine faux excitement/enthusiasm) when it was announced that the peach and I were engaged.

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't know why i find this so funny

But it is, like it would be some movie and that kid from juno is playing you.

by Daedalus on Jun 16, 2010 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

it's more than a little ridiculous :)

One day I’m going to write my memoirs and become a brazillionaire.

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

wanna talk about it big guy?

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I've gotten over it.

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

green man!

Set the gearshift to the high gear of your soul.

by Kevin Mitchell is Batman on Jun 16, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who makes that decision, the club or the league?

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jack Brennan made the decision apparently

“Our web site access policy is restricted to nationally recognized news sites”

by jsl413 on Jun 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is the least surprising news I've heard all day

The centralized NFL brain views all media only for it’s advertising value, not for it’s actual reporting value. Don’t take it personally.

by Brian B on Jun 16, 2010 7:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I hate that

It’s almost like professional sports leagues and their owners are the new Masons, Skull and Bones, etc.

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 17, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

want to go fight them?

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll take a grenade!

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

this actually happened in Turkey

crazy story from the military.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

that could so happen in the US military

Lot of dumbfuques on power trips in militaries all over the globe (it’s why we have militaries in the first place)

by Daedalus on Jun 16, 2010 5:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nobody has commented on it yet

but I can’t decide if the picture in the post is my favorite all-time picture of Jocketty or if it is this one:

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jun 16, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions  

This one

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but

you gotta like the remarkable resemblance:

There’s something comforting knowing that Fonzie has got it under control.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jun 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow..remarkable!

…or maybe not..

If life is short what else have you been doing that has actually taken any longer?

by Yeah-Yeah on Jun 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to take a nap! Ha!

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George Bush, 2001

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Jun 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

you were watching the World Cup too?

I haven’t been able to stay awake during any of the games. Within minutes, I’m asleep

by Highlifeman21 on Jun 16, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got up around 6:30 today, started watching @ 7, asleep by 7:15

Didn’t watch anything around 11

The afternoon games today, fell asleep during both

can’t explain it

by Highlifeman21 on Jun 16, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

pirates are calling up pedro alvarez

which, if nothing else, is good for my fantasy team

chairman of the committee

by boobsinho on Jun 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

About damned time!

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had Alvarez

Carlos Santana, and Jose Tabata on a prospect roster

Now they’re all up in the bigs, and I just need to deal one of my 3 (3?!?!) serviceable catchers.

by ThePensive on Jun 16, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Jocketty,

but what about St. Louis’ depleted farm system? Did his trades lead to this situation? Or was it unrelated?

by Grahamophone on Jun 16, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

It wasn't unrelated

but the list of successful prospects that he traded is short. By my count it’s Dmitri Young, Coco Crisp, Dan Haren, and Daric Barton, who is just starting to perform at the big league level. The last two players were traded in the same deal for Mulder, the only clear failure of a deal on Jocketty’s record, in my opinion.

The real issue was poor drafting. I’m not sure who ran his drafts in St. Louis, but Chris Buckley has been doing a solid job stocking the farm system in Cincinnati the last few years.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jun 16, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

by the way

that Mark Sweeney in that trade was a force for the Reds in 1999.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

its ok,

I specialize in bit players here at Red Reporter.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

325/429/645

In a whopping 35 PAs

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

I forgot about this whole free agent compensation deal. We trade for Lee now, and we’ll end up with 2 extra top picks in next year’s draft after he walks. GET IT DONE WALT. Do the Mariners look twice at Francisco, Wood, and Dorn?

by ThePensive on Jun 16, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

they'd like bats

I would think we’re talking about Alonso and Frazier to start.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's kind of what I was worried about

Ken Rosenthal speculated that Francisco might be included in a deal for Lee. If we could get Lee without giving up Alonso or Frazier, that would be wonderful. I don’t know if that can happen though.

What would you give up for Lee?

by ThePensive on Jun 16, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd give up Alonso for Lee

I don’t think you’d have to do too much convincing to get me to give up Frazier. But I don’t think I’d do both.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

O RLY?

I’d give up a lot for Lee. As Pensive said, the Reds can get two 1st rounders back easily. There is really no good reason why the Reds shouldn’t go after Lee, unless the same players are needed for Hanley.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think I would do both either

I don’t actually like Frazier that much, but right now it’s nice to have him as a nice multi-position prospect. I really like Alonso, on the other hand, and would be sad to see him go now, if only because his stock isn’t at its highest. If Alonso/Francisco gets us Lee, I think I would do that though.

by ThePensive on Jun 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

they have Valaika

I just don’t think you let a utility player get between you and a 5 WAR pitcher

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe so

I just want to have a capable MI prospect and I guess I’m still worried Valaika/Cozart won’t pan out. If Alonso/Frazier is what it takes, I might do it. I’m hoping for Francisco replacing either one of those though, b/c I simply don’t believe in his ability to succeed at the MLB level.

by ThePensive on Jun 16, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call Frazier a utility player

His offensive numbers look a lot like Joey Votto’s in the minors.

And yes Lee would be great, but it’s only one season of Lee. I wouldn’t give our two top offensive prospects for 3 months of a player, no matter how much I want to go to the playoffs (and I do!). That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t trade both of those guys this season. Just that I wouldn’t do it for one player.

Red Reporter or follow on Twitter: @redreporter. Buy The Wire-to-Wire Reds today!

by Slyde on Jun 16, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

but youd get draft picks for Lee, which is a good way to replenish the system

but I guess you could try to get Tuisasasopo as well? I’d have no problem with this trade, especially if it was done sooner rather than later.

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with draft picks is they are 10x less of a sure thing than Alonso/Frazier

Those guys may never pan out, but at least both have hit in the high minors. 2 draft picks is nice and all, but it’s not the same.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, yeah

that’s why you’re getting Cliff Lee

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing is they're not going to be high picks
  1. at best, I think. That and a supplementary pick are nice but shouldn’t be viewed as anywhere near equivalent to two bona fide prospects.

by ken on Jun 16, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd let the Mariners pick 3 from the following list

Arroyo
Bray
Burton
Cordero
Del Rosario
Fisher
DRH
LeCure
Maloney
Masset
Owings
Smith
Valiquette
Wood
Alonso
Cabrera
Cairo
Janish
Sutton
Valaika
Gomes
Heisey
Stubbs
Jukich
Reineke
Castillo
Cozart
Dorn
Terrero
Buck
Klinker
Smit
Mesoraco
Negron
Henry
Boxberger
Joseph
Watson
Rojas
Soto
Sulbaran
Weems

by Highlifeman21 on Jun 16, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

*Arroyo

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

the way i see it, one more starting pitcher will shore up the staff

he will take the place of either Harang or LeCure/Bailey. Trading Arroyo for a starting pitcher is self defeating. Yes Lee is a better pitcher than Arroyo, but it still doesn’t solve the problem of what happens on the other days.

Also Leake may not pitch deep into August, so that needs to be considered too.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wood/Frazier, Alonso, and Boxberger

I think the M’s would be dumb if they DIDN’T do that trade.

by kcgard2 on Jun 17, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be fine with that

Alonso’s never going to play for the Reds. Ever.

Wood might get a cup of coffee for the Reds.

Frazier right now has no position, b/c he’s not hitting well enough to force Walt’s hand to promote him.

Boxberger is still too far away from the majors.

by Highlifeman21 on Jun 17, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which concert that I can go to has more street cred

Ting Tings or Brand New Heavies?

"And then there was the USAID guy in Kandahar who drove a giant pink Cadillac, which the locals set on fire one day. If you wanted to destroy something symbolic during a riot, you just could not do better than that. Good stuff." - Ghosts of Alexander

by Cy Schourek on Jun 16, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

The Brand New Heavies are still performing?

Wow! I saw them back in the early 90’s. That was a great show. Don’t know what it would be like 15+ years later.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Jun 16, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

What it would be like?

Probably The Kinda Old Heavies.

"i may be an idiot but i’m correct." -- 'tHan

by jch24 on Jun 16, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

go to sexfist

they are in Colorado right now.

"Soccer is a communist sport."-Homer Bailey

by justin007000 on Jun 16, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ting Tings will only get you streed cred amongst people who like sucky music.

see what I did there with uzr? it’s like a LOL cats saber-pun combo.--Verka Serduchka

by nycredsfan on Jun 16, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

neither

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...

by btcoop71 on Jun 16, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

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